if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
I get it, that still doesn't convince me he doesn't know how to coach QB's. I think it's safe to say Sam Howell is an average QB, but either way, rarely do QB's just have this upward trajectory in their careers, and one can make an argument that he's done fairly well with Howell and Maye.
All I'm saying, there is no way to tell how each QB would do on the other team. Would Maye have been able to execute that last minute drive in the Rose Bowl to tie the game?
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
also to the other posts re harbough, dont forget before UM he was generally considered a QB guru. he recruited and coached luck, he turned alex smith from bust to pro bowler and won with him, he drafted/developed kaep. josh johnson at ucsd too.
at UM he built a very traditional big10 team based on defense and running. he still got ruddock drafted and now jjm will as well. clearly jjm helped elevate a style that had been capped at not winning the big ones in harboughs first 6 years there.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
you turn on the tv, volume on, and watch the games. during the game the announcers do this thing where they will show the same play a second time, they call it a replay, and point things out like a player looking at one side of the field before throwing back to another.
can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
I'm going to trust this regime on making a the best QB pick...
can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
This^
If you don't understand what they are trying to do or watching the all 22, you are guessing at what is happening.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
RE: I'm going to trust this regime on making a the best QB pick...
.....as I'm pretty sure they will take a QB in the first two rounds.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
Couldn't disagree more. Duke leaned on Jones as a thrower and a runner, and their measurable coming out are different to me. JJ had/has a stronger arm, can throw from all sorts of different angles and off balance, and one thing that has made McCarthy mores than anything else, is his ability to make something happen when things go awry.
This is not a knock on Jones, but he was more of a steady, but not spectacular
performer out of Duke, a player who didn't wow you with his arm, but a player who did a good job reading defenses, and getting the ball out of his hands quickly. He was always fast, but he wasn't a player that was able to make a big play with his arm if things went awry.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
And it's not because I hate Michigan...which I do.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
He is very athletic and has a plus arm. Outside of those traits I'm not sure how he would be close to Maye or Williams in terms of the pro upside. Could see Schoen taking a chance on him in the 2nd but I feel like that would be somewhat of a wasted pick.
And it's not because I hate Michigan...which I do.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
No matter what anyone's opinion is on a prospect's worthiness to be a franchise QB or future All-Pro or draft bust, whatever the case may be...no matter what the opinion is, you will find players in draft history to support whatever argument you have.
So it's sort of a pointless exercise, bw.
Instead, we should discuss the merits or faults of the prospect based on quantifiable factors relative to their own profile holistically. Their performance; statistics, their film, their physical and athletic attributes, and what we can gather from them personality-wise.
I haven't studied McCarthy at all, except what others are saying about him in the draft community and so forth.
I have an open mind with him, but obviously him not having prolific passing performances on his resumé is a point of hesitation for me, but it doesn't mean he can't or won't be successful at the next level.
Looking forward to Sy's analysis of his film study.
I'm just worried that the FO overdrafts a qb that's a bit of reach because they are under pressure. We all want a new qb but (I didn't even want the one we have when he was drafted) but i don't want them to repeat the error.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
__________________
Except for a guy who drops like a rock, every drafted QB is going to be considered to be overdrafted wherever he is picked. Value only comes after he has played for 1-3 years. You can’t name a QB who didn’t start out overdrafted.
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
RE: RE: I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
RE: RE: RE: I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
Predictions about how his ht/wt will measure at the combine are all over the map. Some folks are very concerned, but there are others that aren't terribly concerned. Hard to know what to believe. It's one of the interesting subplots heading into combine week. If he comes in at 6-4 210+ it will be a big benefit to him, for sure.
RE: RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Daniels has nothing left to show as a runner. He's an electric runner with the football. That's all baked into his draft stock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I'd guess he will do weight and height at pro day while doing the drills at combine. Try to put the best weight he can at pro day while doing drills the best at combine.
RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
There was a GM who called it the "Underwear Olympics" or something similar.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Your bottom paragraph is where it can be fun as a fan. Watching how the journey goes for the young players with those plus physical attributes. I just don't have an eye for arm strength or velocity, so I defer to those that seem to have a much better view than me. I certainly look out for your posts when talking college football and quarterbacks.
and Washington takes Maye. I could see the Pats taking JJ over Daniels.
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Or because they think Nabors is the better prospect. They could be ready to move on from Jones and still take a WR at #6 — though in a deep WR draft, they'd have to think the WR they're taking at 6 is a truly special player.
RE: I really hope JJ McCarthy kills it on his Pro Day and the Combine
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Wasn’t LJax not running the 40 at least partially due to some teams asking him to do drills for other positions? Regardless, he was drafted lower than expected (and WAY lower than he should’ve been) so this me be a cautionary tale for Daniels.
He will have a good idea of what his time will before the combine. He should only decline if it’s not as impressive as what it appears on tape.
Unfortunately for most, he did not have the opportunity to put it all on display with Michigan’s play style.
If people recall the same was said about Hutchison coming out of the draft as well. What he was asked to do in the scheme and system did not allow for guady sack numbers.
Stay and be a Champion .... implies you also will buy into the team concept over individual success/goals.
Quote:
In comment 16399525 Spider56 said:
Quote:
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
I get it, that still doesn't convince me he doesn't know how to coach QB's. I think it's safe to say Sam Howell is an average QB, but either way, rarely do QB's just have this upward trajectory in their careers, and one can make an argument that he's done fairly well with Howell and Maye.
All I'm saying, there is no way to tell how each QB would do on the other team. Would Maye have been able to execute that last minute drive in the Rose Bowl to tie the game?
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
also to the other posts re harbough, dont forget before UM he was generally considered a QB guru. he recruited and coached luck, he turned alex smith from bust to pro bowler and won with him, he drafted/developed kaep. josh johnson at ucsd too.
at UM he built a very traditional big10 team based on defense and running. he still got ruddock drafted and now jjm will as well. clearly jjm helped elevate a style that had been capped at not winning the big ones in harboughs first 6 years there.
Quote:
You're gonna see a lot of chatter about McCarthy starting to ramp up as media catches up to/learns about where league scouting stands.
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I can see this happening... and then envision Schoen selecting Rome Odunze instead of Drake Maye to get DJ a much needed weapon.
Quote:
He just tweeted this
Quote:
You're gonna see a lot of chatter about McCarthy starting to ramp up as media catches up to/learns about where league scouting stands.
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I can see this happening... and then envision Schoen selecting Rome Odunze instead of Drake Maye to get DJ a much needed weapon.
Then Eric better start loading up on squirrels for the servers …
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
It can be just as easy to say Schoen didn't believe Maye was worth picking and Schoen's a genius for not picking him.
Not taking a QB can be just as indicative of lack of belief in the prospects as it could be of belief in DJ.
Quote:
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
you turn on the tv, volume on, and watch the games. during the game the announcers do this thing where they will show the same play a second time, they call it a replay, and point things out like a player looking at one side of the field before throwing back to another.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
Quote:
can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
This^
If you don't understand what they are trying to do or watching the all 22, you are guessing at what is happening.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
Couldn't disagree more. Duke leaned on Jones as a thrower and a runner, and their measurable coming out are different to me. JJ had/has a stronger arm, can throw from all sorts of different angles and off balance, and one thing that has made McCarthy mores than anything else, is his ability to make something happen when things go awry.
This is not a knock on Jones, but he was more of a steady, but not spectacular
performer out of Duke, a player who didn't wow you with his arm, but a player who did a good job reading defenses, and getting the ball out of his hands quickly. He was always fast, but he wasn't a player that was able to make a big play with his arm if things went awry.
Quote:
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
Just hope Schoen/Daboll don't take that same "bait".
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Read through Sys comments in this thread.
JJ McCarthy highlights - ( New Window )
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Quote:
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
That is awesome.
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you can't teach that.
You can't?
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
No matter what anyone's opinion is on a prospect's worthiness to be a franchise QB or future All-Pro or draft bust, whatever the case may be...no matter what the opinion is, you will find players in draft history to support whatever argument you have.
So it's sort of a pointless exercise, bw.
Instead, we should discuss the merits or faults of the prospect based on quantifiable factors relative to their own profile holistically. Their performance; statistics, their film, their physical and athletic attributes, and what we can gather from them personality-wise.
I haven't studied McCarthy at all, except what others are saying about him in the draft community and so forth.
I have an open mind with him, but obviously him not having prolific passing performances on his resumé is a point of hesitation for me, but it doesn't mean he can't or won't be successful at the next level.
Looking forward to Sy's analysis of his film study.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
Except for a guy who drops like a rock, every drafted QB is going to be considered to be overdrafted wherever he is picked. Value only comes after he has played for 1-3 years. You can’t name a QB who didn’t start out overdrafted.
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FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Probably why he is a “former” scout.
Or maybe he was doing worst to first.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
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action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
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but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
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In comment 16399724 Dave on the UWS said:
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but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
Predictions about how his ht/wt will measure at the combine are all over the map. Some folks are very concerned, but there are others that aren't terribly concerned. Hard to know what to believe. It's one of the interesting subplots heading into combine week. If he comes in at 6-4 210+ it will be a big benefit to him, for sure.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Quote:
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Huh? Is this a joke?
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I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Daniels has nothing left to show as a runner. He's an electric runner with the football. That's all baked into his draft stock.
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I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I'd guess he will do weight and height at pro day while doing the drills at combine. Try to put the best weight he can at pro day while doing drills the best at combine.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
There was a GM who called it the "Underwear Olympics" or something similar.
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Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Your bottom paragraph is where it can be fun as a fan. Watching how the journey goes for the young players with those plus physical attributes. I just don't have an eye for arm strength or velocity, so I defer to those that seem to have a much better view than me. I certainly look out for your posts when talking college football and quarterbacks.
Well they are both white and play QB, so I’ll give you that.
Other than that, they have absolutely nothing in common
They couldn't be more different.
Jones has a rag arm, is unathletic, and he is not mobile.
McCarthy is the complete opposite.
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Just hope Schoen/Daboll don't take that same "bait".
I think he's going to really well. To put it plainly, I think his pro day is only going to boost his draft stock.
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reminds me of mac jones
They couldn't be more different.
Jones has a rag arm, is unathletic, and he is not mobile.
McCarthy is the complete opposite.
Sounds like someone is warming up a bit more to young JJ?!
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I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
He will have a good idea of what his time will before the combine. He should only decline if it’s not as impressive as what it appears on tape.
Link - ( New Window )
Good information on why some NFL teams believe in JJ McCarthy despite the difficulty in evaluating him.
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who reported JJ McCarthy's rise provides additional information about JJ McCarthy. Link - ( New Window )
Good information on why some NFL teams believe in JJ McCarthy despite the difficulty in evaluating him.
I wonder if it's Daniels or Maye that drops if JJ goes top 3. I hope it's Daniels. He's my top choice.
If people recall the same was said about Hutchison coming out of the draft as well. What he was asked to do in the scheme and system did not allow for guady sack numbers.
Stay and be a Champion .... implies you also will buy into the team concept over individual success/goals.