it is never by a team drafting a QB unless some idiot got drunk. It is by a team not taking a QB and most likely someone nowhere near the top of the draft.
Cryptic only in sense I take this to mean that Maye and Williams aren’t the 1-2 universality combination of top QBs by some teams. I feel like several teams will have Daniels up there and wouldn’t stun me to see some Nix support ahead of Maye.
Colin Cowherd is also on record that an NFL GM has Nix as QB 2
this guy has moved up etc but that is usually because the original "lists" are by people NOT in the league. When news, rumors and info starts leaking about what teams are saying to agents etc. then we hear this guy is rising and this guy is falling..
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
because coaches are becoming more involved in studying and providing input to the scouting department and GM. Eventually, I think JJ is likely to be selected higher than his perceived stock during the college football season.
I believe JJ possesses all the qualities that coaches admire in a prospect, even more so than scouts.
I have no idea what to make of him. Michigan didn't ask much of him.
But I think he'll go in the first.
Agreed. I think this report is only a revelation to us plebes. I also think there will be more than one truly great QB’s in the first two rounds this year. I hope we pick a one.
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
Bw, your opinion carries so much weight around here, I’m really hopefully that you’ll drop some intel about your pro scout opinion. Care to share it?
Otherwise I’ll just help you hijack this thread with bullshit. You’ve already posted 4 times. Maybe…just not think so highly of your expert opinion? Or just stake your claim so we can laugh at it later….?
Cryptic only in sense I take this to mean that Maye and Williams aren’t the 1-2 universality combination of top QBs by some teams. I feel like several teams will have Daniels up there and wouldn’t stun me to see some Nix support ahead of Maye.
Take it at face value.
Just because fans on a NFL team forum are convinced of one thing, doesn't mean they know more than a fan knows.
No matter how much they like their own thoughts.
He makes amazing NFL level throws all the time. I've been saying this for a while. Hope the Giants get him or Maye. Williams and Daniels are going 1-2.
Winner? So were Manziel, Wuerffel, Tebow, Torretta, Ward, Weinke, Crouch, Detmer, etc. Would you want any one of them as the Giants' QB? Sometimes QBs are winners because of the teams they play on. Sometimes they aren't winners because their teams are bad. Mahomes was 13-19 at Texas Tech. Does that mean he's not a winner?
Winner? So were Manziel, Wuerffel, Tebow, Torretta, Ward, Weinke, Crouch, Detmer, etc. Would you want any one of them as the Giants' QB? Sometimes QBs are winners because of the teams they play on. Sometimes they aren't winners because their teams are bad. Mahomes was 13-19 at Texas Tech. Does that mean he's not a winner?
Hyperbole at its finest. Lol
it's amazing how triggering some guys are every year
I am no expert, for sure, so I don't pretend to know who the right guy is. But if they draft JJ, I can't wait to see the heads of some posters to completely explode.
And then I hope the kid comes in and KILLS it. Just to show those assholes who think they know it, that they haven't a fucking clue...
I thought McCarthy's release looked a little weird but I only watched two games of his. He showed a lot of nice things but I thought Daniels/Williams were clearly better in the limited time I saw the three play.
to admit, the more film I watch of him, the more I like him. He has a lot of plus attributes, and there is no question he can make NFL throws. His processing ability is apparently also very good. My guess is that the buzz and excitement about him only increase during and after the combine and his pro day. Those are the perfect places for him to showcase his arm strength and athletic ability. It looks like if the Giants want him, they will have to take him at #6.
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
I thought McCarthy's release looked a little weird but I only watched two games of his. He showed a lot of nice things but I thought Daniels/Williams were clearly better in the limited time I saw the three play.
remember 2023 mccarthy is like watching 2021 daniels. at the end of 2021 daniels had already attempted more passes at ASU than mccarthy did in at UM. now imagine what would happen in the next 2 years if mccarthy transferred to lsu and got to throw 300 balls to nabers/thomas.
i think this qb class is probably flatter than most years realize bc they all have some clear flaws but they all have something to believe in if you want to.
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Indeed..but be honest,did he look anything but an average game manager in any and all 4 games?
Man, he's one guy that looks like a thrower and not a passer
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Indeed..but be honest,did he look anything but an average game manager in any and all 4 games?
he doesnt call the plays - when he had to make plays, he made them. he was really good in the alabama game and the catch he made on the flea flicker may have been the most important play of the game. every game i watched him athleticism and i saw nfl throws. and i didnt see any ints.
I know people discount his winning, but he does nothing but win. He is very young and has all the tools. I think he is three among the quarterbacks behind Williams and Daniels and ahead of Maye, Nix, and Penix.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
I know people discount his winning, but he does nothing but win. He is very young and has all the tools. I think he is three among the quarterbacks behind Williams and Daniels and ahead of Maye, Nix, and Penix.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
Long range, who knows what will happen. But I would be astonished if McCarthy got picked ahead of Maye at this stage. There just isn't a lot to go on.
I know people discount his winning, but he does nothing but win. He is very young and has all the tools. I think he is three among the quarterbacks behind Williams and Daniels and ahead of Maye, Nix, and Penix.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
My heart tells me JJ will be a better pro than Maye but my head tells me Maye will be better pro than JJ. They are 2a and 2b to me while CW and Daniels are 1a and 1b (I actually like Daniels more than CW myself).
Just listened to this week’s “Draft Season” (with Schmeelk and Pauline) in which they shared their most overrated and underrated prospects by position.
Pauline’s concerns about JJ include the following:
- Not a very big guy and will have trouble standing in against the rush
- Doesn’t have a very big arm
- A lot of the questionable throws he made on Saturday will be interceptions on Sunday
- When he gets outside the pocket you don’t know where the ball is going. There’s a loss of velocity and accuracy on his passes
- Given his physical skills, he’s going to have problems at the next level.
Pauline has JJ as a 2nd round prospect, but thinks he will be overdrafted and chosen in round 1.
The JJ discussion starts at 2:42 in the video linked below.
this guy has moved up etc but that is usually because the original "lists" are by people NOT in the league. When news, rumors and info starts leaking about what teams are saying to agents etc. then we hear this guy is rising and this guy is falling..
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
This is my general thinking as well - that we are likely to take a QB at 6, although I am very uncertain as to which one and I don't know enough to have an opinion. DJ starts and is replaced at or by season's end.
I also hope that he creates some trade value. It does seem tough to get there, because the world in which someone wants to trade for DJ on a two year $80MM (albeit non-guaranteed) contract, seems like a world in which the NYGs want to keep him as their starter going forward.
I'm just worried that the FO overdrafts a qb that's a bit of reach because they are under pressure. We all want a new qb but (I didn't even want the one we have when he was drafted) but i don't want them to repeat the error.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
Yes he's in play at 6 and it wouldn't shock me if the Giants were the team that had him as QB2.
And they shared this with a reporter? Why?
p.s.--If you're sitting at a poker table trying to decide whether to raise or fold and one of the other players tells you he has a pair of aces, what do you do with this information?
Yes he's in play at 6 and it wouldn't shock me if the Giants were the team that had him as QB2.
And they shared this with a reporter? Why?
p.s.--If you're sitting at a poker table trying to decide whether to raise or fold and one of the other players tells you he has a pair of aces, what do you do with this information?
I wasn't the one that told a reporter this nor do we even know if it was someone from the Giants.
I was only making the point that 2 weeks ago people were balking at McCarthy going any sooner than the end of round 1 when the reality is he's likely to be a top 10 guy and yes, if we drafted him at 6 I don't think it would be a reach.
I also still don't think we draft a QB even though I think we should.
draft and pre-draft for quarterbacks since 2018. They are being talked up in number in a similar fashion to that year.
That draft netted two quality starters, a third who has never justified being the #1 pick, but still hasn't been bad.
So that's three successes as starters. Rudolph, Mike White and Darnold are back-ups, and Rosen outright whiffed.
And Gettleman drafted Kyle Lauletta.
it was difficult watching JJ McCarthy play QB at times. And obviously looked like the Giants were heading for a pretty high draft slot. But at no point did I see these two points intersect.
JJ's overall play looked like a guy who would be an afterthought until the middle rounds when the tier 1 and 2 guys were gone. A QB who, on Saturday morning after teams reassess who is still left on their board, would garner enough speculation to maybe move up to top of Rd 4 and take him.
LOT of projection to take him 2nd. I think it’s more about Maye dropping, it will be interesting to see what the Giants do if Maye is still on the board. Would Schoen/Daboll see him as their Josh Allen?
I’m not sure I see it. For all of his faults at Wyoming, Allen was fearless in the pocket. I see a lot of happy feet with Maye when pressured.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
Same could be said if McCarthy played in the no defense PAC 12 compared to other QBs where he would put up huge numbers. The big 10 had the best defense by far in the nation and most likely the best two teams this year in Michigan and Ohio State.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
This is a bigger piece of fantasy than Lord of the Rings
Just listened to this week’s “Draft Season” (with Schmeelk and Pauline) in which they shared their most overrated and underrated prospects by position.
Pauline’s concerns about JJ include the following:
- Not a very big guy and will have trouble standing in against the rush
- Doesn’t have a very big arm
- A lot of the questionable throws he made on Saturday will be interceptions on Sunday
- When he gets outside the pocket you don’t know where the ball is going. There’s a loss of velocity and accuracy on his passes
- Given his physical skills, he’s going to have problems at the next level.
Pauline has JJ as a 2nd round prospect, but thinks he will be overdrafted and chosen in round 1.
The JJ discussion starts at 2:42 in the video linked below. Draft Season - ( New Window )
I am no expert,but I watched 10-12 of JJ's games and never felt he was NFL level talent...
Pauline nails it
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
We had one of the one of the worst GMs in modern day sports and a moron dealing with the NFL media, and even Gettleman wouldn't be so careless to do what you are suggesting above.
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
Same could be said if McCarthy played in the no defense PAC 12 compared to other QBs where he would put up huge numbers. The big 10 had the best defense by far in the nation and most likely the best two teams this year in Michigan and Ohio State.
this guy has moved up etc but that is usually because the original "lists" are by people NOT in the league. When news, rumors and info starts leaking about what teams are saying to agents etc. then we hear this guy is rising and this guy is falling..
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
Yep, in 2018 I thought Darnold was the a good QB prospect based on how he carved up PSU in the Rose Bowl. I clearly have no ability to evaluate QB prospects, I'll leave that to people who do that for a living.
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
12/24 for 263...really????
Yes, as a 19 year old in the biggest game of his life.
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
Didn't he go 12/24 in that game? Against the same defense that gave up 42 to Georgia the next game?
JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
Didn't he go 12/24 in that game? Against the same defense that gave up 42 to Georgia the next game?
Did you watch the game or are you just looking at the box score? 10.9 YPA is pretty good if you ask most people.
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
posters on BBI who have a good history of hearing accurate info about who the Giants want. Tis not outlandish that people who cover football for a living can hear stuff.
As on BBI, you have to sort the chaff from the wheat to decide who actually hears stuff and who makes things up/embellishes to garner views.
Sy admitted he slept on JJ thinking he was likely to stay in school. This meteoric rise of JJ came after he declared, so it is a good possibility the same thing could be going on all over the league, and folks are catching up, first the teams, then the folks who cover the sport, then the fans who get their info from the reporters.
posters on BBI who have a good history of hearing accurate info about who the Giants want. Tis not outlandish that people who cover football for a living can hear stuff.
As on BBI, you have to sort the chaff from the wheat to decide who actually hears stuff and who makes things up/embellishes to garner views.
Sy admitted he slept on JJ thinking he was likely to stay in school. This meteoric rise of JJ came after he declared, so it is a good possibility the same thing could be going on all over the league, and folks are catching up, first the teams, then the folks who cover the sport, then the fans who get their info from the reporters.
when he declared with this year's class as strong as it is that was a big tell. people dont yet grasp how much nil has changed those decisions (especially for a NC winner at a blue blood program).
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
RE: RE: RE: A question … how would these 2 guys look
if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
I get it, that still doesn't convince me he doesn't know how to coach QB's. I think it's safe to say Sam Howell is an average QB, but either way, rarely do QB's just have this upward trajectory in their careers, and one can make an argument that he's done fairly well with Howell and Maye.
All I'm saying, there is no way to tell how each QB would do on the other team. Would Maye have been able to execute that last minute drive in the Rose Bowl to tie the game?
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
also to the other posts re harbough, dont forget before UM he was generally considered a QB guru. he recruited and coached luck, he turned alex smith from bust to pro bowler and won with him, he drafted/developed kaep. josh johnson at ucsd too.
at UM he built a very traditional big10 team based on defense and running. he still got ruddock drafted and now jjm will as well. clearly jjm helped elevate a style that had been capped at not winning the big ones in harboughs first 6 years there.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
you turn on the tv, volume on, and watch the games. during the game the announcers do this thing where they will show the same play a second time, they call it a replay, and point things out like a player looking at one side of the field before throwing back to another.
can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
I'm going to trust this regime on making a the best QB pick...
can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
This^
If you don't understand what they are trying to do or watching the all 22, you are guessing at what is happening.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
RE: I'm going to trust this regime on making a the best QB pick...
.....as I'm pretty sure they will take a QB in the first two rounds.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
Couldn't disagree more. Duke leaned on Jones as a thrower and a runner, and their measurable coming out are different to me. JJ had/has a stronger arm, can throw from all sorts of different angles and off balance, and one thing that has made McCarthy mores than anything else, is his ability to make something happen when things go awry.
This is not a knock on Jones, but he was more of a steady, but not spectacular
performer out of Duke, a player who didn't wow you with his arm, but a player who did a good job reading defenses, and getting the ball out of his hands quickly. He was always fast, but he wasn't a player that was able to make a big play with his arm if things went awry.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
And it's not because I hate Michigan...which I do.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
He is very athletic and has a plus arm. Outside of those traits I'm not sure how he would be close to Maye or Williams in terms of the pro upside. Could see Schoen taking a chance on him in the 2nd but I feel like that would be somewhat of a wasted pick.
And it's not because I hate Michigan...which I do.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
No matter what anyone's opinion is on a prospect's worthiness to be a franchise QB or future All-Pro or draft bust, whatever the case may be...no matter what the opinion is, you will find players in draft history to support whatever argument you have.
So it's sort of a pointless exercise, bw.
Instead, we should discuss the merits or faults of the prospect based on quantifiable factors relative to their own profile holistically. Their performance; statistics, their film, their physical and athletic attributes, and what we can gather from them personality-wise.
I haven't studied McCarthy at all, except what others are saying about him in the draft community and so forth.
I have an open mind with him, but obviously him not having prolific passing performances on his resumé is a point of hesitation for me, but it doesn't mean he can't or won't be successful at the next level.
Looking forward to Sy's analysis of his film study.
I'm just worried that the FO overdrafts a qb that's a bit of reach because they are under pressure. We all want a new qb but (I didn't even want the one we have when he was drafted) but i don't want them to repeat the error.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
__________________
Except for a guy who drops like a rock, every drafted QB is going to be considered to be overdrafted wherever he is picked. Value only comes after he has played for 1-3 years. You can’t name a QB who didn’t start out overdrafted.
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
RE: RE: I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
RE: RE: RE: I know squat (like virtually everyone on this site)
but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
Predictions about how his ht/wt will measure at the combine are all over the map. Some folks are very concerned, but there are others that aren't terribly concerned. Hard to know what to believe. It's one of the interesting subplots heading into combine week. If he comes in at 6-4 210+ it will be a big benefit to him, for sure.
RE: RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Daniels has nothing left to show as a runner. He's an electric runner with the football. That's all baked into his draft stock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I'd guess he will do weight and height at pro day while doing the drills at combine. Try to put the best weight he can at pro day while doing drills the best at combine.
RE: They just finished their college careers and there is plenty of live
action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
There was a GM who called it the "Underwear Olympics" or something similar.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Your bottom paragraph is where it can be fun as a fan. Watching how the journey goes for the young players with those plus physical attributes. I just don't have an eye for arm strength or velocity, so I defer to those that seem to have a much better view than me. I certainly look out for your posts when talking college football and quarterbacks.
and Washington takes Maye. I could see the Pats taking JJ over Daniels.
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Or because they think Nabors is the better prospect. They could be ready to move on from Jones and still take a WR at #6 — though in a deep WR draft, they'd have to think the WR they're taking at 6 is a truly special player.
RE: I really hope JJ McCarthy kills it on his Pro Day and the Combine
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Wasn’t LJax not running the 40 at least partially due to some teams asking him to do drills for other positions? Regardless, he was drafted lower than expected (and WAY lower than he should’ve been) so this me be a cautionary tale for Daniels.
He will have a good idea of what his time will before the combine. He should only decline if it’s not as impressive as what it appears on tape.
Unfortunately for most, he did not have the opportunity to put it all on display with Michigan’s play style.
If people recall the same was said about Hutchison coming out of the draft as well. What he was asked to do in the scheme and system did not allow for guady sack numbers.
Stay and be a Champion .... implies you also will buy into the team concept over individual success/goals.
But I think he'll go in the first.
Do tell.
Cryptic only in sense I take this to mean that Maye and Williams aren’t the 1-2 universality combination of top QBs by some teams. I feel like several teams will have Daniels up there and wouldn’t stun me to see some Nix support ahead of Maye.
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
I can see a few of these QBs really putting on a show.
SY...
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.
Do tell.
I think what's happening is Maye may be dropping (in some circles) and the beneficiary - sort of speak - is McCarthy.
Personally, I find that laughable. But one man's junk can easily be another man's gold... ;)
I believe JJ possesses all the qualities that coaches admire in a prospect, even more so than scouts.
I can see a few of these QBs really putting on a show.
I can't wait to see McCarthy getting advice from his mental health coach between drills. ;)
That's about right.
That's about right.
They have an interesting list overall. But I agree that they have McCarthy in the right spot - middle of day two.
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In comment 16399327 Sy'56 said:
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.
Do tell.
I think what's happening is Maye may be dropping (in some circles) and the beneficiary - sort of speak - is McCarthy.
Personally, I find that laughable. But one man's junk can easily be another man's gold... ;)
Maybe if Caleb misses a few throws and starts crying - he can introduce him to Williams haha
But I think he'll go in the first.
Agreed. I think this report is only a revelation to us plebes. I also think there will be more than one truly great QB’s in the first two rounds this year. I hope we pick a one.
You can't?
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
Cowherd himself said JJ is a 3rd rounder.
McCarthy isn't dropping past 12. He's going top ten.
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you can't teach that.
You can't?
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
Bw, your opinion carries so much weight around here, I’m really hopefully that you’ll drop some intel about your pro scout opinion. Care to share it?
Otherwise I’ll just help you hijack this thread with bullshit. You’ve already posted 4 times. Maybe…just not think so highly of your expert opinion? Or just stake your claim so we can laugh at it later….?
I’ll take whoever QBs for Wisconsin for 500, Alex.
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Cryptic only in sense I take this to mean that Maye and Williams aren’t the 1-2 universality combination of top QBs by some teams. I feel like several teams will have Daniels up there and wouldn’t stun me to see some Nix support ahead of Maye.
Just because fans on a NFL team forum are convinced of one thing, doesn't mean they know more than a fan knows.
No matter how much they like their own thoughts.
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
Winner? So were Manziel, Wuerffel, Tebow, Torretta, Ward, Weinke, Crouch, Detmer, etc. Would you want any one of them as the Giants' QB? Sometimes QBs are winners because of the teams they play on. Sometimes they aren't winners because their teams are bad. Mahomes was 13-19 at Texas Tech. Does that mean he's not a winner?
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you can't teach that.
Winner? So were Manziel, Wuerffel, Tebow, Torretta, Ward, Weinke, Crouch, Detmer, etc. Would you want any one of them as the Giants' QB? Sometimes QBs are winners because of the teams they play on. Sometimes they aren't winners because their teams are bad. Mahomes was 13-19 at Texas Tech. Does that mean he's not a winner?
Hyperbole at its finest. Lol
Wow. That's never happened before. I'm shocked. Just shocked I tell you!
PS - Malik Willis says hi...
I am no expert, for sure, so I don't pretend to know who the right guy is. But if they draft JJ, I can't wait to see the heads of some posters to completely explode.
And then I hope the kid comes in and KILLS it. Just to show those assholes who think they know it, that they haven't a fucking clue...
IMV, McCarthy is a tough evaluation. There is athleticism to his game that is intriguing, and he can get vertical pretty quickly when he takes off.
But then there is the passer part and that seems more complicated to me.
If you are sold on the passing part, then he's a day one prospect.
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
remember 2023 mccarthy is like watching 2021 daniels. at the end of 2021 daniels had already attempted more passes at ASU than mccarthy did in at UM. now imagine what would happen in the next 2 years if mccarthy transferred to lsu and got to throw 300 balls to nabers/thomas.
i think this qb class is probably flatter than most years realize bc they all have some clear flaws but they all have something to believe in if you want to.
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Quote:
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Indeed..but be honest,did he look anything but an average game manager in any and all 4 games?
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In comment 16399420 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
Knowing the other teams plays...
Then when that got taken away,he was very very average.
Not sure why so many smart people don't see that.
Dems is da facts...
whatever that advantage was got taken away before they beat OSU, Iowa, Bama, UW in 4 straight games to end the year right?
Indeed..but be honest,did he look anything but an average game manager in any and all 4 games?
he doesnt call the plays - when he had to make plays, he made them. he was really good in the alabama game and the catch he made on the flea flicker may have been the most important play of the game. every game i watched him athleticism and i saw nfl throws. and i didnt see any ints.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
Long range, who knows what will happen. But I would be astonished if McCarthy got picked ahead of Maye at this stage. There just isn't a lot to go on.
My sleeper pick is Pratt who has a very good arm but just needs pro coaching. He should go in round three.
My heart tells me JJ will be a better pro than Maye but my head tells me Maye will be better pro than JJ. They are 2a and 2b to me while CW and Daniels are 1a and 1b (I actually like Daniels more than CW myself).
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Pauline’s concerns about JJ include the following:
- Not a very big guy and will have trouble standing in against the rush
- Doesn’t have a very big arm
- A lot of the questionable throws he made on Saturday will be interceptions on Sunday
- When he gets outside the pocket you don’t know where the ball is going. There’s a loss of velocity and accuracy on his passes
- Given his physical skills, he’s going to have problems at the next level.
Pauline has JJ as a 2nd round prospect, but thinks he will be overdrafted and chosen in round 1.
The JJ discussion starts at 2:42 in the video linked below.
Draft Season - ( New Window )
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
This is my general thinking as well - that we are likely to take a QB at 6, although I am very uncertain as to which one and I don't know enough to have an opinion. DJ starts and is replaced at or by season's end.
I also hope that he creates some trade value. It does seem tough to get there, because the world in which someone wants to trade for DJ on a two year $80MM (albeit non-guaranteed) contract, seems like a world in which the NYGs want to keep him as their starter going forward.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
Yes he's in play at 6 and it wouldn't shock me if the Giants were the team that had him as QB2.
p.s.--If you're sitting at a poker table trying to decide whether to raise or fold and one of the other players tells you he has a pair of aces, what do you do with this information?
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Yes he's in play at 6 and it wouldn't shock me if the Giants were the team that had him as QB2.
And they shared this with a reporter? Why?
p.s.--If you're sitting at a poker table trying to decide whether to raise or fold and one of the other players tells you he has a pair of aces, what do you do with this information?
I wasn't the one that told a reporter this nor do we even know if it was someone from the Giants.
I was only making the point that 2 weeks ago people were balking at McCarthy going any sooner than the end of round 1 when the reality is he's likely to be a top 10 guy and yes, if we drafted him at 6 I don't think it would be a reach.
I also still don't think we draft a QB even though I think we should.
For me, JJ's a second rounder so far.
That draft netted two quality starters, a third who has never justified being the #1 pick, but still hasn't been bad.
So that's three successes as starters. Rudolph, Mike White and Darnold are back-ups, and Rosen outright whiffed.
And Gettleman drafted Kyle Lauletta.
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you can't teach that.
You can't?
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
Also tough to teach long game tying drives in under 2 minutes against Alabama in the Rose Bowl.
JJ's overall play looked like a guy who would be an afterthought until the middle rounds when the tier 1 and 2 guys were gone. A QB who, on Saturday morning after teams reassess who is still left on their board, would garner enough speculation to maybe move up to top of Rd 4 and take him.
And now he's rumored to be in play at #6 overall?
Good luck with that.
I’m not sure I see it. For all of his faults at Wyoming, Allen was fearless in the pocket. I see a lot of happy feet with Maye when pressured.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
Quote:
This type of info does leak out all the time.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
Good one.
Same could be said if McCarthy played in the no defense PAC 12 compared to other QBs where he would put up huge numbers. The big 10 had the best defense by far in the nation and most likely the best two teams this year in Michigan and Ohio State.
It’s a tough evaluation.
Quote:
This type of info does leak out all the time.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
This is a bigger piece of fantasy than Lord of the Rings
Pauline’s concerns about JJ include the following:
- Not a very big guy and will have trouble standing in against the rush
- Doesn’t have a very big arm
- A lot of the questionable throws he made on Saturday will be interceptions on Sunday
- When he gets outside the pocket you don’t know where the ball is going. There’s a loss of velocity and accuracy on his passes
- Given his physical skills, he’s going to have problems at the next level.
Pauline has JJ as a 2nd round prospect, but thinks he will be overdrafted and chosen in round 1.
The JJ discussion starts at 2:42 in the video linked below. Draft Season - ( New Window )
I am no expert,but I watched 10-12 of JJ's games and never felt he was NFL level talent...
Pauline nails it
Quote:
This type of info does leak out all the time.
But hundreds of people aren't privy to the draft board, a draft board that hasn't even been created yet, and this is especially true of the QB position where interviews will play a huge role. I can understand someone in personnel sharing that league scouts are a lot higher on so and so than the draftnik community, but not something as specific as so and so is QB2 and certainly not this early in the process.
REPORTER: Give me something, I don't care if it's true, I just need the clicks.
GM: And you don't care if it's true?
REPORTER: I just need to tell my boss that I got it from a source and didn't make it up myself.
GM: How about JJ McCarthy is our QB4?
REPORTER: Hmmm...got anything better than that?
GM: McCarthy is our QB2?
REPORTER: Perfect, thanks! I owe you one.
We had one of the one of the worst GMs in modern day sports and a moron dealing with the NFL media, and even Gettleman wouldn't be so careless to do what you are suggesting above.
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if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
Same could be said if McCarthy played in the no defense PAC 12 compared to other QBs where he would put up huge numbers. The big 10 had the best defense by far in the nation and most likely the best two teams this year in Michigan and Ohio State.
It’s a tough evaluation.
Fair point …agree.
I think back to 2018 and the QB's there.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.
Heading into the draft very few if anyone was listing Mayfield as the top pick. Allen was all over the place because of supposed accuracy issues, Darnold was the sexy pick but with flaws, Rosen the most skilled but also with concussion issues and lack of true Football commitment and then Jackson who most didn't see as a first option.
Right now I think Williams is the unquestioned #1 QB "prospect" and yet he isn't the guy I want the most. The amount we would need to give up to get him (if even possible) would be too high. Plus, I am not convinced he is the best option for the Giants.
Maye is a solid fit and could be in play for us with a move up.
Daniels is a wild card but has risks.
McCarthy is the guy I am starting to think is destined to be a Giant- at #6. He sits to start the season and Jones gets moved or benched before the season is over. My thinking is he shows enough and we move him at the trade deadline.
Yep, in 2018 I thought Darnold was the a good QB prospect based on how he carved up PSU in the Rose Bowl. I clearly have no ability to evaluate QB prospects, I'll leave that to people who do that for a living.
12/24 for 263...really????
LOL
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JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
12/24 for 263...really????
11 YPA and 4 TDs - that’s really darn good.
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JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
12/24 for 263...really????
Yes, as a 19 year old in the biggest game of his life.
Didn't he go 12/24 in that game? Against the same defense that gave up 42 to Georgia the next game?
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JJ was in a super conservative, run based offense under Harbaugh and that's how some of you are evaluating him? He's made big throws and in big time situations. Go re-watch the 2022 rival game against the loaded Ohio State defense.
Didn't he go 12/24 in that game? Against the same defense that gave up 42 to Georgia the next game?
Did you watch the game or are you just looking at the box score? 10.9 YPA is pretty good if you ask most people.
Michigan scored 45 by the way.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
Sounds like someone is bullshitting.
Sounds like someone is bullshitting.
Sy has hinted heavily he's closer to 2 than 54
As on BBI, you have to sort the chaff from the wheat to decide who actually hears stuff and who makes things up/embellishes to garner views.
Sy admitted he slept on JJ thinking he was likely to stay in school. This meteoric rise of JJ came after he declared, so it is a good possibility the same thing could be going on all over the league, and folks are catching up, first the teams, then the folks who cover the sport, then the fans who get their info from the reporters.
As on BBI, you have to sort the chaff from the wheat to decide who actually hears stuff and who makes things up/embellishes to garner views.
Sy admitted he slept on JJ thinking he was likely to stay in school. This meteoric rise of JJ came after he declared, so it is a good possibility the same thing could be going on all over the league, and folks are catching up, first the teams, then the folks who cover the sport, then the fans who get their info from the reporters.
when he declared with this year's class as strong as it is that was a big tell. people dont yet grasp how much nil has changed those decisions (especially for a NC winner at a blue blood program).
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
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if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
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In comment 16399525 Spider56 said:
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if Maye had played at Michigan under Jimmy H and JJ was with Mac ‘I don’t know how to coach QBs’ Brown. 1 guy had great coaching, the other did not. I think Maye’s ceiling could be higher.
It's a little presumptuous to say that Mac Brown can't coach QB's. Harbough, whom I do think is a fantastic coach, worked with how many QB's at Michigan before JJ that have sniffed the pros?
I’ve watched Maye several times over the past 2 years … he seemed to regress with each game. Go back further … Sam Howell’s stats at UNC also show year to year regression .. 2019-2020-2021. In his 16 years at Texas, before his 5 year hiatus from coaching, Browns’ 3 best QBs were Chris Simms, Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
I get it, that still doesn't convince me he doesn't know how to coach QB's. I think it's safe to say Sam Howell is an average QB, but either way, rarely do QB's just have this upward trajectory in their careers, and one can make an argument that he's done fairly well with Howell and Maye.
All I'm saying, there is no way to tell how each QB would do on the other team. Would Maye have been able to execute that last minute drive in the Rose Bowl to tie the game?
Can they go through multiple progressions and throw an accurate ball? If they weren't asked to in college, will they be able to? Screwing up the latter question has gotten many fired.
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
also to the other posts re harbough, dont forget before UM he was generally considered a QB guru. he recruited and coached luck, he turned alex smith from bust to pro bowler and won with him, he drafted/developed kaep. josh johnson at ucsd too.
at UM he built a very traditional big10 team based on defense and running. he still got ruddock drafted and now jjm will as well. clearly jjm helped elevate a style that had been capped at not winning the big ones in harboughs first 6 years there.
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You're gonna see a lot of chatter about McCarthy starting to ramp up as media catches up to/learns about where league scouting stands.
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I can see this happening... and then envision Schoen selecting Rome Odunze instead of Drake Maye to get DJ a much needed weapon.
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He just tweeted this
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You're gonna see a lot of chatter about McCarthy starting to ramp up as media catches up to/learns about where league scouting stands.
The above message was him responding to a tweet he made 6 days ago that said the league is higher on JJ (top 10) than Nix/Penix (2nd/3rd)
We might really get lucky and have Maye/Daniels fall right into our lap at 6 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I can see this happening... and then envision Schoen selecting Rome Odunze instead of Drake Maye to get DJ a much needed weapon.
Then Eric better start loading up on squirrels for the servers …
when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
It can be just as easy to say Schoen didn't believe Maye was worth picking and Schoen's a genius for not picking him.
Not taking a QB can be just as indicative of lack of belief in the prospects as it could be of belief in DJ.
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when he got passing attempts i noticed he went through multiple progressions in more of a pro style offense than others in this class.
How did you do that?
you turn on the tv, volume on, and watch the games. during the game the announcers do this thing where they will show the same play a second time, they call it a replay, and point things out like a player looking at one side of the field before throwing back to another.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
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can see occasions of a QB going through progressions. The more knowledgeable you are at evaluation/observation, the more you should be able to see it.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
This^
If you don't understand what they are trying to do or watching the all 22, you are guessing at what is happening.
Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Having said that, JJM strikes me as Daniel Jones 2.0. Great athlete but I just don't see the body of work as a pure thrower in college.
Now maybe they did not let him and maybe he's got the measurables that translate to the NFL.
All I can say is whoever they take I'll be behind to succeed.
Couldn't disagree more. Duke leaned on Jones as a thrower and a runner, and their measurable coming out are different to me. JJ had/has a stronger arm, can throw from all sorts of different angles and off balance, and one thing that has made McCarthy mores than anything else, is his ability to make something happen when things go awry.
This is not a knock on Jones, but he was more of a steady, but not spectacular
performer out of Duke, a player who didn't wow you with his arm, but a player who did a good job reading defenses, and getting the ball out of his hands quickly. He was always fast, but he wasn't a player that was able to make a big play with his arm if things went awry.
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Maybe. It’s hard to see progressions without watching all-22. Progressions aren’t always left to right or right to left, they can be short to deep or vice versa, and those are harder to catch on a standard TV broadcast.
Exactly. Unless you sit down with the staff, know the play, and the results of the play, everyone is reaching on progressions. And the really humorous part is when someone says that if a player is going through progressions in college, they will be able to do that in the NFL. No one has a clue.
If you watch any game with these big brands, they typically give their QB a lot more time than they will get in the NFL. Whether they can speed up their reads and execution with less time in the NFL is one of the great mysteries of evaluating a college QB.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
Just hope Schoen/Daboll don't take that same "bait".
However,there are several players I would like to draft from that team including Jenkins and Coram and even JJ...in the 3rd or 4th round.
In terms of this so called progression you all seem to slurp over...
HE KNEW THE OTHER TEAMS PLAYS...
as soon as that stopped.
HIS NUMBERS DROPPED.
PFF has him at #52
Why are you all so fucking blind to it?
I saw Sy drop a cryptic note recently,and I am very curious to hear what he sees...
But other than that stop the maddness
Read through Sys comments in this thread.
JJ McCarthy highlights - ( New Window )
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Quote:
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
That is awesome.
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you can't teach that.
You can't?
Care to know Elway's record at Stanford? Mahomes's at Texas Tech?
Yeah, it's really challenging winning at IMG and Michigan.
No matter what anyone's opinion is on a prospect's worthiness to be a franchise QB or future All-Pro or draft bust, whatever the case may be...no matter what the opinion is, you will find players in draft history to support whatever argument you have.
So it's sort of a pointless exercise, bw.
Instead, we should discuss the merits or faults of the prospect based on quantifiable factors relative to their own profile holistically. Their performance; statistics, their film, their physical and athletic attributes, and what we can gather from them personality-wise.
I haven't studied McCarthy at all, except what others are saying about him in the draft community and so forth.
I have an open mind with him, but obviously him not having prolific passing performances on his resumé is a point of hesitation for me, but it doesn't mean he can't or won't be successful at the next level.
Looking forward to Sy's analysis of his film study.
The problem is: the long term health of the nyg should be the absolute guiding light (but it's hard to execute if you are also dealing with the competing motive of needing a built-in means to keep your job).
Except for a guy who drops like a rock, every drafted QB is going to be considered to be overdrafted wherever he is picked. Value only comes after he has played for 1-3 years. You can’t name a QB who didn’t start out overdrafted.
Quote:
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Probably why he is a “former” scout.
Or maybe he was doing worst to first.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
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action of these guys playing QB, against real defenders and real Defensive Coordinators game-planning against them and real world situational football.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
To expand on the bold, let's say Daniels runs a 4.5 in the forty (on the high side of what's expected). Well, maybe he had a bad day, just isn't a track guy, etc.
But you do know that when you watched him play live, he was running by great athletes at Alabama, Florida, A&M, etc. And at times, with ease.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
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but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
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In comment 16399724 Dave on the UWS said:
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but some things are common sense. The guy who can benefit the most from the Combine and Pro days is JJ.
IF he performs as some are expecting, you will then have 4 guys virtually interchangeable.
This would "almost" guarantee, if Schoen wants a QB, he can get one at 6. Daniels is the second guy with the most to gain.
There's a good chance he ends up rocketing to QB1. My gut tells me that if JS focuses in on Maye and McCarthy, he will be able to get one.
There is almost no chance Daniels can rocket to #1. What will he have to do to show he should be number one? Gain 20 pounds?
He said he was playing at around 205. If he shows up to the combine at 210 or more, it's going to help him. Would also like to see some physical development of his lower half.
Predictions about how his ht/wt will measure at the combine are all over the map. Some folks are very concerned, but there are others that aren't terribly concerned. Hard to know what to believe. It's one of the interesting subplots heading into combine week. If he comes in at 6-4 210+ it will be a big benefit to him, for sure.
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
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FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
Former NFL Scout 2024 QB Draft Board (Evidence Provided):
1. Spencer Rattler
2. Michael Penix Jr.
3. Joe Milton III
4. Bo Nix
5. Drake Maye
6. Jayden Daniels
7. Caleb Williams
8. J.J. McCarthy
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/shocking-2024-nfl-draft-board-released-quarterbacks/
Huh? Is this a joke?
Quote:
I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
Daniels has nothing left to show as a runner. He's an electric runner with the football. That's all baked into his draft stock.
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I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
I'd guess he will do weight and height at pro day while doing the drills at combine. Try to put the best weight he can at pro day while doing drills the best at combine.
Why would you want to let that be overshadowed by a prospect who looks "on" throwing at his Pro Day or the Combine?
The interviews and getting into their football heads is the real next important phase.
There was a GM who called it the "Underwear Olympics" or something similar.
Quote:
Yes, there is a reason that coaches and scouts pour over film. I see many fans with takes which declare certainty when describing a play after watching a game one time. If it was that easy, film time would hardly be a thing. I am not saying fans can’t know, just that many fans do not know that they do not know.
Yeah, with this part of the evaluation, I concede I have no idea about the mental part of a prospect. In fact, I have two friends in the business (recruiting and a current college coach) and they say that it's incredibly difficult.
I remember listening to an interview with Favre and he said many times, especially early in his career, he just trusted his arm and instincts to execute the play. Not the most scholarly approach to being a QB... ;)
But you can see athleticism, throwing ability, movement, size, etc - all the physical attributes. So, if I see enough of those, and they look above average and/or jump pff the screen (or when I'm live at a game), that gets my attention. Because you know if a guy has a big arm in college, he will have a big arm in the NFL.
Your bottom paragraph is where it can be fun as a fan. Watching how the journey goes for the young players with those plus physical attributes. I just don't have an eye for arm strength or velocity, so I defer to those that seem to have a much better view than me. I certainly look out for your posts when talking college football and quarterbacks.
Well they are both white and play QB, so I’ll give you that.
Other than that, they have absolutely nothing in common
They couldn't be more different.
Jones has a rag arm, is unathletic, and he is not mobile.
McCarthy is the complete opposite.
Then while we all celebrate our good fortune, the Giants select Malik Nabors... because they don't want to give up on Jones yet.
Just hope Schoen/Daboll don't take that same "bait".
I think he's going to really well. To put it plainly, I think his pro day is only going to boost his draft stock.
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reminds me of mac jones
They couldn't be more different.
Jones has a rag arm, is unathletic, and he is not mobile.
McCarthy is the complete opposite.
Sounds like someone is warming up a bit more to young JJ?!
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I actually doubt Daniels runs the 40 at the combine, like Lamar. Daniels has to dispel concerns about his power and accuracy to short and intermediate zones. So I do expect him to participate in combine throwing drills.
Never thought about Daniels not running the forty. Seems like he is a competitive guy and would want to.
To me, Daniels has nothing to prove throwing the ball, but his height/weight/etc will be more important.
He will have a good idea of what his time will before the combine. He should only decline if it’s not as impressive as what it appears on tape.
Link - ( New Window )
Good information on why some NFL teams believe in JJ McCarthy despite the difficulty in evaluating him.
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who reported JJ McCarthy's rise provides additional information about JJ McCarthy. Link - ( New Window )
Good information on why some NFL teams believe in JJ McCarthy despite the difficulty in evaluating him.
I wonder if it's Daniels or Maye that drops if JJ goes top 3. I hope it's Daniels. He's my top choice.
If people recall the same was said about Hutchison coming out of the draft as well. What he was asked to do in the scheme and system did not allow for guady sack numbers.
Stay and be a Champion .... implies you also will buy into the team concept over individual success/goals.