Dan Duggan @DDuggan21
Some offseason bookkeeping: The contracts of QB Tyrod Taylor, DL A'Shawn Robinson and CB Adoree' Jackson voided yesterday.
This doesn't change anything, as they were already set to become free agents this offseason. But the bill comes due in 2024 for their void years. The Giants will carry $6.5M in dead money on the 2024 cap from the void year(s) of this trio.
Robinson was the only player with multiple void years on his deal. The Giants still could re-sign him, but it would have been beneficial to do so before his contract voided. The contract he signed last offseason contained a $2.8M signing bonus, with $700K being prorated to each of the four years of the deal (2023 and each of the three "dummy" years).
Since the contract voided, the $2.1M dead money charge for 2024 can't be altered. So any new cap charges for Robinson would be added to the existing $2.1M.
If Robinson was re-signed before his contract voided, the $1.4M of the signing bonus that was prorated to 2025 and 2026 would have remained in those years. Therefore, there would only be a $700K charge on the books in 2024 from the initial deal.
Not at all.
All it means is the Giants didn't decide to re-sign them yesterday.
In the case of Schoen, did he sign Taylor and Robinson with the void years? I don't recall them being added after the fact. I know he was pressed against the cap in 2022, but doesn't seem like something he'd want to do based on what he's said.
The three players mentioned in the article. Taylor and Robinson had void years to extend that schedule as part of their signing. Jackson had the void year added as part of a restructure.
Despite Schoen's previous comments, he's clearly brushed up on his accounting skills and realized using any means necessary to stretch out bonus dollars is the right way to manage a cap.
The three players mentioned in the article. Taylor and Robinson had void years to extend that schedule as part of their signing. Jackson had the void year added as part of a restructure.
Despite Schoen's previous comments, he's clearly brushed up on his accounting skills and realized using any means necessary to stretch out bonus dollars is the right way to manage a cap.
$6.5 mill is not that much, in reality. I do hope they can re-sign A'Shawn. Thought he was starting to play really well after Leo was traded.
I expect the Giants to re-sign Robinson and McKinney and add a high profile interior lineman.
Those things are easily achievable without any cap pain.
I expect the Giants to re-sign Robinson and McKinney and add a high profile interior lineman.
Those things are easily achievable without any cap pain.
Under this premise, Schoen isn't feeling much pain from the Jones contract. Now, of course an extra $40M to put towards the team would be huge. But, it's not impacting them to the point where they can't improve the team through free agency. And *if* they decide to move on after 2024, it'll have even less of an impact next year.
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won’t be resigned?
Not at all.
All it means is the Giants didn't decide to re-sign them yesterday.
So now I’m really confused … if the Giants intend to resign Robinson, why would they let the contract void and incur the additional charge in 2024? As stated in the OP, it would have been better to resign without the void. .???
Let's say there's a dollar of void money on the books. The player already has been paid that dollar. The team decides to re-sign him for 10 dollars (make it a year, for ease of explanation). The teams owes an additional 10 bucks. Just because the contract was signed prior to the void doesn't make the tab 10 minus 1.
multiple void years complicate the calculations, but the concept is the same. The void money was already paid, and now the book keeping is catching up. It has to catch up regardless of when he's re-signed. The new money can be gimmicked down the road in the new contract.
When Robinson signed his deal last year, he received a 2.8M signing bonus. The Giants elected to spread that bonus over 4 years. One real year, and three void years.
So in 2023 700K of his cap charge was the prorated portion of that signing bonus, 2.1M of that bonus still has to be accounted for.
If they restructured his deal before yesterday, they could have kept those 700K prorations attached to future years.
Because he's no longer under contract, that full 2.1M accelerates to 2024.
When Robinson signed his deal last year, he received a 2.8M signing bonus. The Giants elected to spread that bonus over 4 years. One real year, and three void years.
So in 2023 700K of his cap charge was the prorated portion of that signing bonus, 2.1M of that bonus still has to be accounted for.
If they restructured his deal before yesterday, they could have kept those 700K prorations attached to future years.
Because he's no longer under contract, that full 2.1M accelerates to 2024.
Exactly … so it stands to reason as Dugan said, if they intend to resign him, it would have him better to do it before the void… correct ?
Look at it this way: 2025 and 2026 caps just went UP by 700K each year, while 2024 cap went down by 1.4 mil. You now have 1.4 mil in 25-26 to spend.
You wouldn't want to hasten negotiations and potentially pay more than market rate, just to retain the existing amortization schedule.
Especially when you have the tools at your disposal to produce the same net yearly cap impacts with a new deal.
For example, let's say the Giants do re-sign Robinson to a 3-year deal. They'll simply structure the deal with a lower year one cap charge, and higher year 2 & 3 charges.
Ok. Light bulb … I finally got it … thanks for your patience.
Technically, it's 1.4M (grin), as 700K is on the books for '24 no matter what.
The three players mentioned in the article. Taylor and Robinson had void years to extend that schedule as part of their signing. Jackson had the void year added as part of a restructure.
Despite Schoen's previous comments, he's clearly brushed up on his accounting skills and realized using any means necessary to stretch out bonus dollars is the right way to manage a cap.
I've read contradictory accounts of this. My understanding is contract with years that automatically void don't preclude players from the comp formula.
Didn’t a Duggan interview recently come out where JS said he jumped the gun on our rebuild? So he probably considers pushing cap $s out to future years was a mistake.
I think Schoen probably regrets the amount of money he guaranteed to Jones. I don't think he's too worried about the salaries he's converted to bonuses or the signing bonuses he's given.
The Giants have plenty of cap room and flexibility to improve their team.
I don't believe so.
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Despite Schoen's previous comments, he's clearly brushed up on his accounting skills and realized using any means necessary to stretch out bonus dollars is the right way to manage a cap.
Didn’t a Duggan interview recently come out where JS said he jumped the gun on our rebuild? So he probably considers pushing cap $s out to future years was a mistake.
I think Schoen probably regrets the amount of money he guaranteed to Jones. I don't think he's too worried about the salaries he's converted to bonuses or the signing bonuses he's given.
The Giants have plenty of cap room and flexibility to improve their team.
The one thing the Giants absolutely cannot do under any circumstances, is to extend Jones, at all for any amount, to obtain some near term cap relief. I know it's the easiest contract to extend, add void years, to create cap savings, but Joe has to hold the line and not guarantee more dollars and future dead cap to Jones.
You don't want to create a future individual cap situation which makes it difficult to release a player. So if DJ's cap situation in '25 means you take a cap hit if released (such as in '24), that is bad.
But borrowing money from future caps doesn't really care where the money comes from. Last year, DJ signed, then immediately restructured, which reduced the cap space available in future years. That amount became 'dead' money the minute he signed the restructure. It doesn't matter if he's on the team, or not. It doesn't count as dead until he's released, but no matter what column it shows up under, that money is no longer available. But just because his cap number is higher in those future years doesn't mean he's more expensive. The overall cost is the same, as his cap number last year was lower. Nobody calls him the 15 million dollar man(what his low cap hit was). They call him by future cap numbers because that makes the anti-DJ argument sound better. The cap doesn't care if that dead money came from a player who is on the team, or not.
How long the borrowing period is and how that affects the cap relief when he's released matters, but mostly whether it is feasible to release him. Right now, Giants can gain back 19 million in '25 by releasing him after '24. If they borrow from this amount, it doesn't matter if it comes from Thomas, or Lawrence, or DJ. Whatever is borrowed comes off future years. It remains prorated over multiple years if the player is still on the team, but as long as the amount accelerated by cutting DJ doesn't exceed 19 mil, he can still be cut.
It isn't all that simple, but overall, that's the essence of it.
I'm a diehard 'don't borrow unless absolutely necessary' guy, but once you accept a decrease in future cap by borrowing, you can't lose sight of the increase in cap space today. The borrowing is a team thing, and so is the loss of future cap space.
Of the 6 years remaining, his 2024 cap charge is the highest percentage of the cap of any year.
I believe the Giants will convert 12M of his 2024 salary to a bonus, and create an additional 10M in cap space for 2024.
Adding 2M each to the other 5 years of his deal actually flattens out his cap charges.
Of the 6 years remaining, his 2024 cap charge is the highest percentage of the cap of any year.
I believe the Giants will convert 12M of his 2024 salary to a bonus, and create an additional 10M in cap space for 2024.
Adding 2M each to the other 5 years of his deal actually flattens out his cap charges.
The cap increases annually so we do get more value spending it in the current year but if JS thinks we need another rebuilding year it makes more sense to go back to his year 1 philosophy of not moving cap hits into the future.
Then, when he feels we have a shot at being a great team we have extra cap that our competition most likely won’t have.
I don't think where a team is in its cycle has a huge impact. On the fringes sure, if you know you're close you might take some bigger swings. But those are usually shorter term. Like how the Ravens signed OBJ.
Schoen has given big money to three players: Thomas, Lawrence, and Jones. And then nice, but not huge deals to Okereke and Waller (via trade/restructure), and then a middle tier deal to Glowinksi.
Whether the Giants won 10 or 2 games last year, the Thomas, Lawrence, and Okereke deals are good value. He doesn't regret those.
When you look at the bad deals now in retrospect, if those players worked out as he imagined, where they are in the cycle would be vastly different. It's not like he went and shopped in the nice-to-have aisle. He shopped for a QB and number one target, which are must-haves. He just got the players wrong.