Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News reports that despite Mara’s constant presence in the building, Schoen has been given near complete autonomy as the general manager. He makes the calls and is rarely, if ever, overruled.
“Joe Schoen is in charge,” one team source told Leonard. “It’s not like Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum were with the Jets. No one questions who is in charge in the building. It’s a GM-centric organization. It’s not like Brian Daboll is Bill Belichick, where he’s drafting the players.”
Then again, typical Pat Leonard... the other side of the coin:
“This is still John Mara’s team,” another team source said. “Never forget that. John Mara runs the Giants.”
Joe Schoen - (
New Window )
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“It’s Joe’s choice” articles this week.
If people still don’t think Mara is swayed by fan criticism…
And, on the backside of the fan letter being discussed by media outlets. Not to mention what sure feels like burners posting alot lately.
Yup.
This. QB is always going to be an ownership influenced decision. No one is more involved than Lurie as an owner, but as SFGF said in another thread, just win. The Mara criticism goes away when the team wins.
Of course it will when $160 mill is involved. But I think if Schoen and Daboll tell him it is likely time to move on, he will acquiesce.
Part of me says, that QB may not be on the front burner this year - sadly.
The January 16 quote is absolutely damning here. Schoen's hands were completely tied by that.
The Giants have never been shy about the fact that they like to work backwards from a conclusion in deciding their plans for the future.
I didn't post the quote about believing they can win a Super Bowl with Jones, but that's from Mara too. He believed, as recently has 11 months ago, that Jones is the QB to win the next Giants Super Bowl.
I'm not absolving Schoen of blame, it's entirely possible he believes the same thing, which may be how he got the job in the first place. But either way, the message from his boss has been clear since the day he interviewed for the job.
Most of the burners are obsessed fans just trying to rile up and get their jollies with what they want to happen.
And I think most of us know Schoen is in charge, and he's likely got a 2 year window to get the team restocked and situated going forward.
It's the very big decisions that matter. And that's where Mara comes in.
It's the very big decisions that matter. And that's where Mara comes in.
Manhattan : 10:31 am : link : reply
and therefore he's not in charge on big decisions. Yea we already get it that Schoen has the freedom to find inside linebackers.
It's the very big decisions that matter. And that's where Mara comes in.
Mara owns the team. Just like any other business, the owner’s opinion matters. Yet some fly off the handle whenever it’s suggested he has any involvement whatsoever.
Welcome to the world. It isn’t working now, but a similar approach lead to 4 Lombardis in the case. They’ve just failed miserably to create their next contender. It happens. If it was easy you wouldn’t see multiple teams without Lombardis.
I do think Mara is the "Hey Joe you have full power. Hopefully you can find a way to resign Daniel, he's such a great kid. I get it if you can't, but it would really be best if we found a way for him to stay. Again, your decision, I just hope it works out for Daniel" type of meddler.
Spot on. Same thing with SB and our cheerleader Sterling Shepard.
Mara owns the team. Just like any other business, the owner’s opinion matters. Yet some fly off the handle whenever it’s suggested he has any involvement whatsoever.
Welcome to the world. It isn’t working now, but a similar approach lead to 4 Lombardis in the case. They’ve just failed miserably to create their next contender. It happens. If it was easy you wouldn’t see multiple teams without Lombardis.
The approach that lead to 4 Lombardi's was Wellington and Tim Mara being suck fuckups that Pete Rozelle had to step in and force them to hire George Young.
If not for that, the Giants would have the franchise history of the Detroit Lions.
The plan for 2023 never really materialized. On top of that, you had turmoil with the staff playing out in the press.
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the article contradicts itself.
I think it means Schoen is in charge until he is not :)
This.
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the article contradicts itself.
Actually, the team sources contradict each other. The article just reports what they said.
Exactly. Interpreting this as some kind of Pat Leonard shit-stirring is likely not accurate -- he's just quoting people.
Many fans want John (and Chris) Mara to be the same. This is unrealistic, since John is the President. Of course, he's going to have a voice in the football conversations. The question is whether he's an overbearing boss micromanaging football decisions and not allowing opposing viewpoints, or whether he's a guy who says his peace, then let's Schoen manage. It's highly doubtful Schoen can do whatever the hell he wants regardless of whether Mara approves, but that isn't the same as Schoen being Mara's rubber stamp toady.
I know, wtf? Maybe the first source was John Mara and the second source was Joe Schoen.
+1.
He also is involved if their is a character question (like with Parsons and Toney), he gives his feelings, but STILL lets the GM make the call.
I don't believe he's as much an impediment as people think. He's sucked at hiring GMs and coaches and that's largely, why we have the mess we do.
If he finally got it right with Schoen and Daboll, he will give them all the time and resources they need to get this thing turned around.
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In comment 16400297 Eric from BBI said:
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the article contradicts itself.
Actually, the team sources contradict each other. The article just reports what they said.
Exactly. Interpreting this as some kind of Pat Leonard shit-stirring is likely not accurate -- he's just quoting people.
If we got to hear the full context of what each source said, you might have a better point. As it stands, Leonard picks and chooses little snippets of quotes that fit the narrative he wants to push... constantly. That's what a shit-stirrer like him does, where when criticized he can just shrug his shoulders and say he's just reporting what sources told him.
And then we have b.s. misleading comments like this that Leonard comes up with on his own in that article: "Lots of staff members ran for the hills after the season, and Schoen had to block others from escaping." He can't help himself.
I do think Mara is the "Hey Joe you have full power. Hopefully you can find a way to resign Daniel, he's such a great kid. I get it if you can't, but it would really be best if we found a way for him to stay. Again, your decision, I just hope it works out for Daniel" type of meddler.
Yeah. "We've done everything we could to screw up this kid" type of influence.
His brother was more the type to show up at the draft with a list of players and ask why you don't want to draft them.
Just go back and watch Daniel Jones's pro day. You'll see Chris Mara in the front row acting like a scout.
Just go back and watch Daniel Jones's pro day. You'll see Chris Mara in the front row acting like a scout.
The QB is the face of the franchise so many owners don’t want people like Deshaun Watson in that role
I think Mara's firewall in Schoen.
Give me some rope to theorize...
While Mara really likes Jones, he wanted to re-organize the process (after Gettleman left) with a new GM having much more say. Which required finding a candidate without any ties to 1925 Giants Way. So, along comes Schoen; and Mara looks like he's making the changes demanded.
Then, as luck would have it, Schoen really liked Jones, too, and thought he could be the long-term solution with the right coaching and development. Low and behold, Schoen knows a guy in Buffalo who did excellent work with a QB named Josh Allen. Brian Daboll is hired. The 2022 season is a surprising success.
While the 2023 season was an oil spill for the team and Jones, Schoen at al have a myriad of excuses at their disposal to give Jones cover.
So even if fans are rightfully sick of the Daniel Jones Experience, if Schoen still believes in his biggest decision ever as the GM, then expect to see #8 as soon as possible in 2024. And Mara can always fall back on the fact that this is/was Schoen's call...
Thus, the firewall.
Says every business owner to their GM.
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To allude to Eric's earlier post, I think Strahan91's letter/post got people on edge @ 1925. I don't know if its just dawning on them, but I think the powers that be realize how out the fan base is on Jones. & I get the whole 'You can't listen to the fan base' argument most of the time, but let's face it...99.9% of fan base is done with Jones because we have fucking eyes & can see that the dude is a JAG, at best. It's the John Maras of the world who are deluding themselves into thinking it can still work with Jones. The fans are the realists here.
I think Mara's firewall in Schoen.
Give me some rope to theorize...
While Mara really likes Jones, he wanted to re-organize the process (after Gettleman left) with a new GM having much more say. Which required finding a candidate without any ties to 1925 Giants Way. So, along comes Schoen; and Mara looks like he's making the changes demanded.
Then, as luck would have it, Schoen really liked Jones, too, and thought he could be the long-term solution with the right coaching and development. Low and behold, Schoen knows a guy in Buffalo who did excellent work with a QB named Josh Allen. Brian Daboll is hired. The 2022 season is a surprising success.
While the 2023 season was an oil spill for the team and Jones, Schoen at al have a myriad of excuses at their disposal to give Jones cover.
So even if fans are rightfully sick of the Daniel Jones Experience, if Schoen still believes in his biggest decision ever as the GM, then expect to see #8 as soon as possible in 2024. And Mara can always fall back on the fact that this is/was Schoen's call...
Thus, the firewall.
JJ McCarthy could be the perfect fit to sit until he shows he's better than Jones. DJ gets every chance to succeed while a promising young qb sits and learns. Schoen and Daboll get a fallback if things inevitably don't go great with DJ while Mara is happy because they don't fully give up on DJ and give him a chance in his 6th season. DJ doesn't prove he is worth 40 million per year in a so-so year and Schoen n co get owner approval to part ways with him without looking like idiots and losing their jobs. JJ starts 2025 (and probably a good chunk of 2024 too after DJ is injured or proves inferior to JJ), giving Daboll and Schoen a chance to work some magic with their own guy at QB. This could be the ideal for everyone involved: DJ gets once last hoorah; Mara is satisfied; JJ gets to develop until ready; and Schoen/Dabs don't get fired after DJ doesn't produce.
Maye could fit the bill for that too. Jayden Daniels is the guy I want, but he would likely start out the gate and I don't know how Mara would feel about that. JD likely won't make it past pick 3 anyways. I could also see Mara really being wooed by JJ via interviews and a steak dinner. That alone might be enough for him to sign off on it if Schoen and Daboll like him enough.
So, on most decisions except the most important ones like the QB? Does he "weigh in" on the first selection in the draft?
When the owner says that he likes a certain guy but you make the decision... you don't think that is an influential statement?
If we step back and look at it, we have been one of the worst franchises in the league for the last dozen years. Thee GM's, a revolving door of coaches, etc. At some point you have to look at the top. You may disagree now, but if this continues for another 5 years with a new GM and two more coaches, then I am sure more of you may begin to think differently about this.
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To allude to Eric's earlier post, I think Strahan91's letter/post got people on edge @ 1925. I don't know if its just dawning on them, but I think the powers that be realize how out the fan base is on Jones. & I get the whole 'You can't listen to the fan base' argument most of the time, but let's face it...99.9% of fan base is done with Jones because we have fucking eyes & can see that the dude is a JAG, at best. It's the John Maras of the world who are deluding themselves into thinking it can still work with Jones. The fans are the realists here.
I think Mara's firewall in Schoen.
Give me some rope to theorize...
While Mara really likes Jones, he wanted to re-organize the process (after Gettleman left) with a new GM having much more say. Which required finding a candidate without any ties to 1925 Giants Way. So, along comes Schoen; and Mara looks like he's making the changes demanded.
Then, as luck would have it, Schoen really liked Jones, too, and thought he could be the long-term solution with the right coaching and development. Low and behold, Schoen knows a guy in Buffalo who did excellent work with a QB named Josh Allen. Brian Daboll is hired. The 2022 season is a surprising success.
While the 2023 season was an oil spill for the team and Jones, Schoen at al have a myriad of excuses at their disposal to give Jones cover.
So even if fans are rightfully sick of the Daniel Jones Experience, if Schoen still believes in his biggest decision ever as the GM, then expect to see #8 as soon as possible in 2024. And Mara can always fall back on the fact that this is/was Schoen's call...
Thus, the firewall.
I mean if you take this theory to its logical conclusion, once Mara knew he couldn't just install Kevin Abrams as GM, he expressly went for a GM that believed in Daniel Jones.
I do think Mara is the "Hey Joe you have full power. Hopefully you can find a way to resign Daniel, he's such a great kid. I get it if you can't, but it would really be best if we found a way for him to stay. Again, your decision, I just hope it works out for Daniel" type of meddler.
I've been saying this since the Jones contract was signed. It ^might* have been Schoen's "decision" to resign Jones but not without Mara stating (probably early and often) of his strong preference for Jones remaining with the Giants.
Daboll and Schoen have been in the league for a while. It's hard to believe they could have analyzed Jones' body of work and decided to tie their Giants future to Jones. The only possible exception is if Dabol got a big head over reports of how he developed Josh Allen and he convinved Schoen he could work miracles with Jones.
Quote:
To allude to Eric's earlier post, I think Strahan91's letter/post got people on edge @ 1925. I don't know if its just dawning on them, but I think the powers that be realize how out the fan base is on Jones. & I get the whole 'You can't listen to the fan base' argument most of the time, but let's face it...99.9% of fan base is done with Jones because we have fucking eyes & can see that the dude is a JAG, at best. It's the John Maras of the world who are deluding themselves into thinking it can still work with Jones. The fans are the realists here.
I think Mara's firewall in Schoen.
Give me some rope to theorize...
While Mara really likes Jones, he wanted to re-organize the process (after Gettleman left) with a new GM having much more say. Which required finding a candidate without any ties to 1925 Giants Way. So, along comes Schoen; and Mara looks like he's making the changes demanded.
Then, as luck would have it, Schoen really liked Jones, too, and thought he could be the long-term solution with the right coaching and development. Low and behold, Schoen knows a guy in Buffalo who did excellent work with a QB named Josh Allen. Brian Daboll is hired. The 2022 season is a surprising success.
While the 2023 season was an oil spill for the team and Jones, Schoen at al have a myriad of excuses at their disposal to give Jones cover.
So even if fans are rightfully sick of the Daniel Jones Experience, if Schoen still believes in his biggest decision ever as the GM, then expect to see #8 as soon as possible in 2024. And Mara can always fall back on the fact that this is/was Schoen's call...
Thus, the firewall.
Bingo. If Joe REALLY wanted to trade for Watson, does anybody think Mara would let him do it? Not a chance, Mara has already admitted he has at times over-ruled GM decisions.
And we saw how outraged the fanbase were on the Eli benching...that worked out well. I don't say that in support of DJ, at all, just that Mara can use 2017 as a 'well, lookee here'
Yes. Up to 2023, Mara is on record with his "[W]e've done everything possible..." position. What's different now, and it's been said, and is actionable, is his injuries, even his wheels. That 'should' be enough to nudge Mara to a realistic appraisal.
Joe Schoen and Brandon Brown should always have the final say.
Mara needs to put his Jerry Jones attitude on waivers!