Back in 2014, we created the following All-Time team document. Larry did almost all of the work but there was input from Daniel Franck, Mike Moran, John Berti, and myself.
Well felt it was best to break out the players into three distinct eras:
Single-Wing / Single-Platoon Era (1925 – 1949)
Pro T / Two-Platoon Era (1950 – 1977)
Post-Modern (1978 – 2010) & Post-Lockout Eras (2011-2019) Combined
In 2021, we revised the document. With the 100th-year anniversary of the team approaching, Larry correctly believes we should update it again.
My initial thought is we're going to have a problem with a controversial wide receiver from LSU. Right now, in the latter era, we have:
X Receiver – Amani Toomer (1996-2008)
Honorable Mention – Plaxico Burress (2005-08)
Z Receiver – Victor Cruz (2010-2016)
(BTW, we may need to include a slot receiver category).
I think the debate is going to be true talent/ability versus historical "value" and productivity to the franchise.
In other words, how do you view Toomer and Burress versus Beckham as an X receiver?
New York Giants All-Time Team - (
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I think this is the debate we're going to have. And that's why I'm looking for fan feedback.
I definitely think we need to add slot receiver and consider getting rid of the X and Z designations since receivers move around quite a bit in today's game.
Larry is wondering if we need to separate out the post-lockout era too. I'm not sure if we have enough good players (12 years of bad Giants football) to do that.
I just asked Larry what our debate regarding Nicks was. I think he should at least be an honorable mention.
However, I'm not sure you can list any NYG receiver over Toomer in terms of his historical production and impact. Hakeem had a great run, but it was very short.
LG - I take Roberts over Seubert. Snee vs. Stone is a tough call. I'd give honorable mention to Karl Nelson also. I'd give honorable mention for Antonio Pierce. Also, Howard Cross. I know he wasn't much of pass catcher, but he was the best blocking TE in the league, maybe that I've ever seen. He was a 3rd OT.
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Over Toomer. And Kinard over Rolle.
I just asked Larry what our debate regarding Nicks was. I think he should at least be an honorable mention.
However, I'm not sure you can list any NYG receiver over Toomer in terms of his historical production and impact. Hakeem had a great run, but it was very short.
Toomer had a long run, but it wasn't spectacular. When he was playing, Nicks was the best Giants wide receiver I've seen.
LG - I take Roberts over Seubert. Snee vs. Stone is a tough call. I'd give honorable mention to Karl Nelson also. I'd give honorable mention for Antonio Pierce. Also, Howard Cross. I know he wasn't much of pass catcher, but he was the best blocking TE in the league, maybe that I've ever seen. He was a 3rd OT.
Yeah, I think Pierce should probably be included as an honorable mention.
Jacobs became part of the fabric of 2 championship teams. While his stats won't set him apart, his attitude and his ability to set the tone in games became part of the reason why teams wanted no part of us. Particularly in 2007. He was a unicorn at the position.
Also, Jacobs over Hampton. And I love Rodney, but Brandon won two Super Bowls here and is a huge reason why we won.
Nicks broke the playoff record for most yards by a receiver in a single playoffs in 2012 and I would have to check to see if anyone has broken that yet. But in any event - that alone puts him over Cruz for me.
I know this was debated 10 years ago, but I'm not completely comfortable not mentioning Karl Nelson, Antonio Pierce, Hakeem Nicks, Ron Johnson.
Nicks broke the playoff record for most yards by a receiver in a single playoffs in 2012 and I would have to check to see if anyone has broken that yet. But in any event - that alone puts him over Cruz for me.
That would be a tough argument for me. I loved Nicks, but Cruz made so many more huge plays on a consistent basis. Where Nick really stood out was the 2011 season. I've made the argument on BBI that Eli, Cruz, and Hakeem carried that team to a title. But as we wrote:
"Holds Giants record for most receiving yards in a season with 1,536 in 2011. Seven touchdowns of 70 or more yards; second most in team history. His 99-yard TD reception against the Jets in 2011 is the longest play from scrimmage in Giants history and was cited by Tom Coughlin as the catalyst for the teams run to Super Bowl XLVI. Eighteen 100-yard receiving games rates third-most in franchise history. Retired 10th in team history in receptions and receiving yards."
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Over Toomer. And Kinard over Rolle.
I just asked Larry what our debate regarding Nicks was. I think he should at least be an honorable mention.
However, I'm not sure you can list any NYG receiver over Toomer in terms of his historical production and impact. Hakeem had a great run, but it was very short.
I also agree with the suggestion of Kinard over Rolle.
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I would have Nicks over Cruz.
Nicks broke the playoff record for most yards by a receiver in a single playoffs in 2012 and I would have to check to see if anyone has broken that yet. But in any event - that alone puts him over Cruz for me.
That would be a tough argument for me. I loved Nicks, but Cruz made so many more huge plays on a consistent basis. Where Nick really stood out was the 2011 season. I've made the argument on BBI that Eli, Cruz, and Hakeem carried that team to a title. But as we wrote:
"Holds Giants record for most receiving yards in a season with 1,536 in 2011. Seven touchdowns of 70 or more yards; second most in team history. His 99-yard TD reception against the Jets in 2011 is the longest play from scrimmage in Giants history and was cited by Tom Coughlin as the catalyst for the teams run to Super Bowl XLVI. Eighteen 100-yard receiving games rates third-most in franchise history. Retired 10th in team history in receptions and receiving yards."
And similarly Boss, Ballard, JPP, Wilson, Terrell Thomas and Chad Jones.
I guess when you pull of a play like Eli to Tyree on 3rd down on the eventual game-winning drive over a then 18-0 team, your luck is bound to go the other way at some point.
Glad Richie is included. Someone fairly recently posted he was just a "JAG" and Will Beatty was a championship pedigree OL....yikes.
Nice job putting this together.
Jacobs became part of the fabric of 2 championship teams. While his stats won't set him apart, his attitude and his ability to set the tone in games became part of the reason why teams wanted no part of us. Particularly in 2007. He was a unicorn at the position.
However, those are the games that stick out. And there were moments like against the Cowboys where he dropped a goal line pass that was picked off that cost the team the game.
Cruz was just more consistent, both in terms of the big plays and overall productivity (both statistically proven). He also had more signature moments (huge plays against the Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins, Jets, etc.).
I'm not sure anyone should be listed on an all-time list based on just two seasons.
That just happened more with him.
Prior to him those respective records were held by three different players, Joe Morrison, Frank Gifford and Kyle Rote.
That just happened more with him.
I actually missed this game. I was at an airshow and following it on my wife's phone. When the Skins scored, I was like "God damn it...shit...shit...shit..." and then a few seconds later, "Holy shit, we won!!!"
2012 16 86c 1092y 12.7y/r 10TD
2013 14 73c 998y 13.7y/r 4TD
Nicks
2011 15 76c 1192 15.7 7
2012 13 53c 692 13.1 4
Game 2 against Tampa 2012: Nicks 10 199 19.9
Cruz 11 179 16.3
Taking out game 2 of 2012 it significantly impacts both WR's moving forward. Nicks was never the same and neither was Cruz imv.
Ron Johnson and Antonio Pierce definitely HM.
And I'd keep Hampton where he is. I thought he was amazing and also had an understated style.
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And I would have Plax, Toomer and Cruz as the modern day WRs. Toomer's impact spans the Fassel and Coughlin generations and evolves from a deep threat to possession guy. Cruz passes smith and Ike for the prototype slot. I take Plax over Odell because his signing was key for Eli's development + his run blocking as a WR was top-tier.
I'm not sure anyone should be listed on an all-time list based on just two seasons.
In this case it doesn't matter. Dex already has more sacks, Pro bowls, and was second-team All-Pro twice. He's started more games already than Burt did for the Giants.
Andrew Thomas is going to be another hard one.
At some point, you also have to factor in longevity.
When we wrote the original document, we fell prey to also believing some players were going to be good for a long time (i.e., Cruz). Injuries change things very quickly.
Jim Burt was a very important player for the Giants for a number of seasons. And the team was very fortunate to have Erik Howard replace him (honorable mention).
Toomer was an excellent receiver for longer than some of the other “big names”, so if longevity / historical impact is the criteria, Toomer has it over the likes of Burress, Beckham, Nicks etc.
I tend to more gravitate to the peak / near peak excellence (but not just a one year flash in the pan).
Peak / near peak, I’m taking Beckham, Burress, Nicks over Toomer.
Toomer was an excellent receiver for longer than some of the other “big names”, so if longevity / historical impact is the criteria, Toomer has it over the likes of Burress, Beckham, Nicks etc.
I tend to more gravitate to the peak / near peak excellence (but not just a one year flash in the pan).
Peak / near peak, I’m taking Beckham, Burress, Nicks over Toomer.
This is correct.
However, I tend to lean to a guy like Toomer. Both played games in Green Bay in the playoffs. One showed up. The other did not.
Harrison only played three years as a NYG. Look at the article and see who he was up against.
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Was snacks Harrison ever a consideration? He was pretty dominant the time he was here.
Harrison only played three years as a NYG. Look at the article and see who he was up against.
I read it. I was just wondering. Thanks!
This list was mostly compiled by Larry with input from others. My involvement in this was mainly a sounding board and weighing in on the tough calls.
There may have been only a handful of players on this list where I had an actual impact.
What's interesting is how things can quickly change. How modern era players were viewed in 2014 did change just a few years later.
Look at Cruz. I can't recall many Giants fans saying back in 2014 that Nicks was the better player. But here we are in 2024 and some in this thread now think otherwise. Interesting.
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This is the “best peak year” versus “sustained, long term excellence” debate.
Toomer was an excellent receiver for longer than some of the other “big names”, so if longevity / historical impact is the criteria, Toomer has it over the likes of Burress, Beckham, Nicks etc.
I tend to more gravitate to the peak / near peak excellence (but not just a one year flash in the pan).
Peak / near peak, I’m taking Beckham, Burress, Nicks over Toomer.
This is correct.
However, I tend to lean to a guy like Toomer. Both played games in Green Bay in the playoffs. One showed up. The other did not.
You're counting the SUper Bowl winning Giants with a combo of Toomer, Plax and most of season Shockey with a 26 yo Eli in which Toomer already had about 8 other playoff games for his career with TC as a head coach vs a 35 yo Eli with a 1st time playoff Odell with Mcadoo his coach and past his prime Victor Cruz (retired the next year) and using that as a meaningfull barometer?
I don't agree.
Guilty as charged.
"Odell Beckham caught 4 of 11 targets for 28 yards with three drops, including one dropped TD.
"Most disappointing was the play of Odell Beckham. It was hoped that “playoff Beckham” would reach even greater heights of excellence. Instead, Beckham laid a major egg. He was all but invisible against a terrible pass defense, and hurt his team with those three key drops. He dropped a 3rd-and-5 pass inside the 30-yard line on the promising opening drive. On the ensuing possession, he dropped what should have been a 28-yard touchdown pass. When the Giants were desperate, down 24-13 early in the 4th quarter, a wide-open Beckham dropped a deep pass on 3rd-and-11. The Giants punted and quickly found themselves trailing 31-13."
Playoff Game Review: New York Giants at Green Bay Packers, January 8, 2017 - ( New Window )
For SS honorable mention, Garnes and Gibril were good starters for the SB teams.
If Simms doesn't get injured vs. Buffalo in December '90 & we still win it all vs. the Bills the following month in Tampa...Simms is ahead of Eli IMO. But-and I started a thread on this months ago-I don't know if we win it all in '90 with Simms remaining as our QB, which should idiotic considering Simms' 90 season prior to going down, but Hoss' running component was a huge plus for us in those postseason games.
In my 30+ years of watching the NFL, OBJ is the most talented WR I've ever seen.
Physicality, I think he was almost perfect.
Before Tyreke arrived, I had never seen a receiver with that type of short area burst. It was stunning.
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argue that if Eli Manning is to remain listed over Phil Simms, it will be because of his playoff games. Otherwise, he's a .500 quarterback.
If Simms doesn't get injured vs. Buffalo in December '90 & we still win it all vs. the Bills the following month in Tampa...Simms is ahead of Eli IMO. But-and I started a thread on this months ago-I don't know if we win it all in '90 with Simms remaining as our QB, which should idiotic considering Simms' 90 season prior to going down, but Hoss' running component was a huge plus for us in those postseason games.
Simms also played before they changed the rule about contact after 5 yards.
Guilty as charged.
It's not the question I'm asking you. You are looking at one game from Odell while Toomer had about 8 playoff games? One vs 8 also tells a stroy of overall team and mgmt. The one game comparison you are disregarding the talent Toomer's team had over ODdell's along with the coaching. Isn't "Championship Tom" much better than McAdoo?
And I'll take the ELi 2007 over the Eli 2016. I'll take toomer's 2007 WR teammmate Plax over Odell's teammate 2016 teammate Cruz any day of the week.
I am going to put so much on Odell for just 1 game in which the Giants would never have sniffed Playoffs without him - then why not have Rosey Grier over Medenhall? Rosey won a championship. What good is Meandenahall's longevity without any playoffs? He was never all-pro. Yet I can agree with JM though i never saw Rosie play.
Odell carried that team to the Playoffs. A WR that carries your team to at least get to the Playoffs and only has one shot - should get soem leeway vs a WR that was "very good" but not really a "great" WR. Those early years Odell was a modern day Justin Jefferson. BTW - I agreed with the move the Giants trade him. Unfortauntley I was also always in support of removing the Clown-of-a_GM that was running things too.
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/new-york-giants-historical-statistics/ - ( New Window )