for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: NFT: Spieth DQ’d: Why are they still using Scorecards

Mdgiantsfan : 2/17/2024 1:13 pm
So Jordan Spieth gets DQ’d for signing the wrong scorecard. I’ve been playing golf for nearly 30 years, but for the life of me I think they have some dumb rules.

Can someone explain why on earth in 2024 they are still requiring players to sign their scorecards? With all the tech at golf tournaments, that should be out of the players hands.
Wait  
BigBlueShock : 2/17/2024 2:29 pm : link
Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.
RE: Wait  
section125 : 2/17/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16401443 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.


This is the correct answer.
RE: Wait  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/17/2024 4:28 pm : link
In comment 16401443 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.


Name another sport in which the players keep score? It just doesn’t make sense to me why the sport has not evolved in this regard.

But more to the essence of my question. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they still do it. So let me reframe the question, why do you believe there’s a need for them to continue to keep their score?
_____________  
I am Ninja : 2/17/2024 6:27 pm : link
Probably the same reason we do a lot of the stupid shit we do... "That's the way we've always done it..."
RE: RE: Wait  
k2tampa : 2/17/2024 6:36 pm : link
In comment 16401515 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 16401443 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.



Name another sport in which the players keep score? It just doesn’t make sense to me why the sport has not evolved in this regard.

But more to the essence of my question. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they still do it. So let me reframe the question, why do you believe there’s a need for them to continue to keep their score?


In what other sport have individuals who face off against a field of other individuals had to keep track of their own totals, and been responsible for calling penalties on themselves, who now don't keep track of their own scores?

People keep track of stats in basketball, football and baseball. In those sports the participants can't keep track of their own scores.

Not to mention golf has always been a game of honor and honesty - unlike every other sport.
RE: RE: RE: Wait  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/17/2024 6:44 pm : link
In comment 16401561 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16401515 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


In comment 16401443 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.



Name another sport in which the players keep score? It just doesn’t make sense to me why the sport has not evolved in this regard.

But more to the essence of my question. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they still do it. So let me reframe the question, why do you believe there’s a need for them to continue to keep their score?



In what other sport have individuals who face off against a field of other individuals had to keep track of their own totals, and been responsible for calling penalties on themselves, who now don't keep track of their own scores?

People keep track of stats in basketball, football and baseball. In those sports the participants can't keep track of their own scores.

Not to mention golf has always been a game of honor and honesty - unlike every other sport.


That sounds elitist. But I guess what bothers me about it is that when I hear of a player getting dq'd for this reason I always think why in the world is that a requirement for the PGA. As if the player keeping the score is a key component of being a professional golfer.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Wait  
k2tampa : 2/17/2024 7:15 pm : link
In comment 16401567 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 16401561 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16401515 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


In comment 16401443 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


Why does it bother you that players are responsible for signing their own scorecards? Is it too much to ask them to keep track of their shots like every other golfer has in the history of the game?

Blame Spieth, not the rules.



Name another sport in which the players keep score? It just doesn’t make sense to me why the sport has not evolved in this regard.

But more to the essence of my question. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they still do it. So let me reframe the question, why do you believe there’s a need for them to continue to keep their score?



In what other sport have individuals who face off against a field of other individuals had to keep track of their own totals, and been responsible for calling penalties on themselves, who now don't keep track of their own scores?

People keep track of stats in basketball, football and baseball. In those sports the participants can't keep track of their own scores.

Not to mention golf has always been a game of honor and honesty - unlike every other sport.



That sounds elitist. But I guess what bothers me about it is that when I hear of a player getting dq'd for this reason I always think why in the world is that a requirement for the PGA. As if the player keeping the score is a key component of being a professional golfer.


It's simply a key component of being a golfer. And elitist? Name another sport where participants call penalties on themselves.
Elitist because they keep their own scores?  
BigBlueShock : 2/17/2024 7:24 pm : link
Holy shitballs, man….
RE: _____________  
BigBlueShock : 2/17/2024 7:31 pm : link
In comment 16401557 I am Ninja said:
Quote:
Probably the same reason we do a lot of the stupid shit we do... "That's the way we've always done it..."

Ah, yes. The ole “that’s the way we’ve always done it” sarcasm. Why the hell should they change it? It works. It’s always worked. I’ve never heard one single person bitch about this. Not one Pro gofer has ever bitches about it as far as I know. But some weirdos on a message board are bent out of shape because Spieth got disqualified and now they should change everything? Even Spieth himself would be laughing at you clowns
Just about every sport has arcane rules  
BlackLight : 2/17/2024 8:33 pm : link
that don't make any sense considered in a vacuum, but remain in place because they contribute something to the charm of the game.

Obviously we have the technology to take scorekeeping out of the players' hands, but one of the charms of golf is prevailing sense of honor among competitors.

I have no sympathy for Spieth in his scenario. Maybe the penalty should be less severe. But I promise you that there are members of the gallery who followed him for four hours who could've told you his correct score when he finished up on 18. And we're supposed to be mad about this rule when Spieth and his caddy couldn't keep track?
DQ is too harsh a punishment  
PEEJ : 2/17/2024 8:47 pm : link
for the pros. Their scores are kept and noted on every broadcast. If a mistake is made, correct the score, impose a 2 stroke penalty and move on.
RE: DQ is too harsh a punishment  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/17/2024 9:24 pm : link
In comment 16401621 PEEJ said:
Quote:
for the pros. Their scores are kept and noted on every broadcast. If a mistake is made, correct the score, impose a 2 stroke penalty and move on.

The rules were changed to do just that: you can correct your score even after you’ve signed your card - as long as you don’t leave the scoring tent until an official has checked and confirmed your scores. Spieth was in a hurry for some reason and left before his scorecard was checked.
Elitist?  
section125 : 2/17/2024 9:45 pm : link
Truly WTF is wrong with you? Really, WTF is wrong with you?

Yes, seems severe. But uh oh, that is the rule they go by. OMG, the players follow the rules. A concept unimaginable to people these days.
The rules are severe to prevent cheating. OMG, someone is responsible for the actions.

If the fuckheads that ran industry(among other things) operated with the same integrity, the world would be a better place.
RE: Elitist?  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/18/2024 2:17 am : link
In comment 16401641 section125 said:
Quote:
Truly WTF is wrong with you? Really, WTF is wrong with you?

Yes, seems severe. But uh oh, that is the rule they go by. OMG, the players follow the rules. A concept unimaginable to people these days.
The rules are severe to prevent cheating. OMG, someone is responsible for the actions.

If the fuckheads that ran industry(among other things) operated with the same integrity, the world would be a better place.


First off why would you have such a visceral reaction to that mere idea. It is almost like the use of the word elitist was an offense to you. Not that I called you elitist but the sport. Look I love playing golf and have done so for nearly 30 years. But golf has always been a sport that tries to maintain a certain level of sophistication and prestige. Heck I don't want to have to play golf in a collard shirt, and yet there have been a few times where I made the decision to buy one in the pro shop so that I could play that day because the course required all players to where collard shirts. Why, because wearing a collard shirt is not a safety issue. I still don't understand why when it's 100+ degrees in Phoenix or Vegas, the players can't wear shorts.

I am not a fan of Spieth but whenever I hear that a player is DQ'd in this fashion I simply see no reason why the players need to keep their own score. Spieth is absolutely at fault for signing the wrong scorecard, but I think it would be a negative thing if say in a major a popular player has a record day or a classic comeback to win on 18...only to be DQ'd because he signed the wrong scorecard. Yes it would be his fault, but again it's a rule that in my view adds no value.

In this day and age, where we are fortunate enough as television viewers of these tourneys to have technology that can trace every shot, calculate carry and overall distance, give us the wind reading on each shot, etc., I see no competitive reason why the PGA tour would keep this rule.

I welcome to hear from others if you feel this rule has value for you as a fan or even if you play competitively.
Obviously this was a rule that had some importance a long  
Essex : 2/18/2024 2:47 am : link
time ago and probably no practical importance now. They choose to keep it it because tradition and legacy isn’t such a bad thing. TV always shows the tradition of the winner going from the 18th to the tent to sign his scorecard. So, it has some sentimental and commercial importance at the very least if not a practical one. Spieth knew the rules, has signed countless scorecards and made a mistake. To blame the rule seems silly—Spieth could have done it right like he had done countless time and screwed up. It’s on him
RE: Obviously this was a rule that had some importance a long  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/18/2024 3:11 am : link
In comment 16401709 Essex said:
Quote:
time ago and probably no practical importance now. They choose to keep it it because tradition and legacy isn’t such a bad thing. TV always shows the tradition of the winner going from the 18th to the tent to sign his scorecard. So, it has some sentimental and commercial importance at the very least if not a practical one. Spieth knew the rules, has signed countless scorecards and made a mistake. To blame the rule seems silly—Spieth could have done it right like he had done countless time and screwed up. It’s on him


Thanks for the response Essex. I had not thought about that tradition of going into the tent and signing. That is somewhat of a cool visual.
There is a good deal of debate on the issue in the golf media  
shyster : 2/18/2024 6:01 am : link
and by players (and their relations) on social media.

The most pertinent explanation I've seen is that the recording technology available at the tournament pro level isn't available all the way down the line.

And there is a resistance to creating different rules for different contexts. Not just pro vs amateur but tournament pro event vs, say, Monday qualifying.
RE: There is a good deal of debate on the issue in the golf media  
section125 : 2/18/2024 8:02 am : link
In comment 16401712 shyster said:
Quote:
and by players (and their relations) on social media.

The most pertinent explanation I've seen is that the recording technology available at the tournament pro level isn't available all the way down the line.

And there is a resistance to creating different rules for different contexts. Not just pro vs amateur but tournament pro event vs, say, Monday qualifying.


FWIW, there is an app called Golf Genius that many clubs use for scoring during events. Each group is able to enter scores and the proshop is linked, recording the scores in real time. It would be possible to have a PGA Tour official stay with each pairing and enter the scores at the completion of each hole. I am sure down the line something similar could occur.
I have a friend that has played on tour, especially Champions Tour and I walked with him for a qualifier for the Senior PGA Open. After every 3rd hole, a PGA official asked each player for his scores from the previous 3 holes and they were entered by that official to the scoring table. Of course, at the end of the round they had to "officially" sign and enter their scorecards. But at least that way an adding error or input error would show up prior to handing in the signed card. An anomaly would be seen instantly.
The Golf gods change the rules of golf all the time.  
Marty in Albany : 2/18/2024 10:03 am : link
They could easily change this one if it is no longer useful.
Golf is played by the same rules at every level  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/18/2024 11:39 am : link
Only on the PGA tour are there rules officials and cameras all over the course to follow every shot. Everywhere else players and their playing partners have no choice but to police their scores. So the PGA follows the rules the same way everyone else does.

Frankly, I’m not even sure that there are enough cameras and officials at smaller PGA events that it would be possible to take official scores out of the player’s hands. You could end up plsying by different rules in different tournaments.
I was so glad when the PGA...  
bw in dc : 2/18/2024 12:31 pm : link
quit taking calls from the viewing public questioning situations on the golf course. What a clown show that was.

This rule with signing scorecards has always felt like the punishment didn't fit the crime. There has to be a better way to deal with this beyond disqualification.
In football  
cjac : 2/18/2024 4:51 pm : link
We’re still using sticks and chains to measure first downs.
Simple solution  
Sky King : 2/19/2024 7:20 pm : link
In PGA tournaments, simply assign an official scorer to each group. That person keeps the score for each player, and the player (and the scorer) sign the card after the round. If a mistake comes up later, the score is corrected with no penalty.
Back to the Corner