It seems that the overwhelming need for selecting a QB early is a BBI obsession. Other teams such as Atlanta at 8, and Pittsburgh at 20 are in the search for a QB. That leaves a strong maybe for Tennessee at 7, Minny at 11 because of Cousins possible value to the team, Denver at 12 due to the strain between Wilson and Payton, and Las Vegas at 13.
I don't believe QBs McCarthy, Nix and Penix will be there for the Giants in the second round. The Giants should not use their draft capital to move up into the second round with some many other needs. Try to preserve your top 100 picks as much as feasible.
If one of these there QBs wow us at the combine and private workouts lets grab one of them at 6. If they all impress my choice would be JJ McCarthy. Penix scares me because of his past injuries and Nix is ok.The only caveat would be if one of the projected top three falls to us at 6 and then we would know if Schoen/Daboll really had one of those three in their sights. If we get our QB at 6 then the rest of the draft should be used to fill holes in the roster.
I prefer McCarthy to Maye myself. I would be elated if we could get Jayden Daniels. I think there is a chance NFL evaluators like Maye less than the media and fans think.
I'm pretty sure the first QB chosen will be Williams, and Chicago is asking for too damn much in future picks to take that gamble.
They must draft a QB, though. It's a strong draft for QB's, and the Giants are going nowhere but last place with Jones.
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
There are no guarantees for anyone in the draft besides maybe MHJ barring injury imo. Especially with QBs they are drafted with the potential to be elite and win superbowls. There are 4 qbs with that potential in this draft imo and we need to take one of them between picks 4-6.
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They three QBs you mentioned are all tricky evaluations. I want a QB who is going to elevate us to a championship caliber team, not simply someone who is not names Daniel Jones. If that guy is there at 6, that would be a best case scenario. If he's not, then it would be a mistake to draft one over a blue chip player at another position of need.
There are no guarantees for anyone in the draft besides maybe MHJ barring injury imo. Especially with QBs they are drafted with the potential to be elite and win superbowls. There are 4 qbs with that potential in this draft imo and we need to take one of them between picks 4-6.
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They three QBs you mentioned are all tricky evaluations. I want a QB who is going to elevate us to a championship caliber team, not simply someone who is not names Daniel Jones. If that guy is there at 6, that would be a best case scenario. If he's not, then it would be a mistake to draft one over a blue chip player at another position of need.
There are no guarantees for anyone in the draft besides maybe MHJ barring injury imo. Especially with QBs they are drafted with the potential to be elite and win superbowls. There are 4 qbs with that potential in this draft imo and we need to take one of them between picks 4-6.
Caleb Williams is almost a lock to go #1. No lower than #2. You seem to keep ignoring his status as the presumptive #1 pick, which he's been for more than a year. Ti suggest there is no guarantee that the league views him as a potential superstar just seems incorrect. He's the best prospect in the class and there is probably a bigger gap between him and QB2 than between MHJ and WR2
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
It's beyond BBI. And it's real. McCarthy's draft profile is getting a lot of discussion these last two weeks. I would say he's the hottest draft topic.
Now, I wouldn't touch the kid until round two, but it's looking like he's received a pretty firm first round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Council.
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
Thanks.
Been trying to find anything. Cant find a thing.
As it stands right now it seems the JJ talk is nothing more than made-up stuff. The word "buzz" in February for a QB projected late rd 1 ealry rd 2 m,mving up so radically seems fantasy until "buzz" beocmes more than just a podcast "floating" something out there without much accountability if it is real or not.
"The first QB taken usually isn't the best, we shouldn't trade up"
But also
"Taking a lower QB is going to bust! We shouldn't take one at 6"
So the Giants shouldn't moved up because a lower rated QB could be better, but they shouldn't take one at 6 because they may not be as good as the first ones taken.
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In comment 16401986 UberAlias said:
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They three QBs you mentioned are all tricky evaluations. I want a QB who is going to elevate us to a championship caliber team, not simply someone who is not names Daniel Jones. If that guy is there at 6, that would be a best case scenario. If he's not, then it would be a mistake to draft one over a blue chip player at another position of need.
There are no guarantees for anyone in the draft besides maybe MHJ barring injury imo. Especially with QBs they are drafted with the potential to be elite and win superbowls. There are 4 qbs with that potential in this draft imo and we need to take one of them between picks 4-6.
Caleb Williams is almost a lock to go #1. No lower than #2. You seem to keep ignoring his status as the presumptive #1 pick, which he's been for more than a year. Ti suggest there is no guarantee that the league views him as a potential superstar just seems incorrect. He's the best prospect in the class and there is probably a bigger gap between him and QB2 than between MHJ and WR2
It's just my perspective. You believe his floor is top 10 qb. I think he is more of a boom or bust qb. I'm interested to see what his actual height is. I do think he has a very high ceiling and immense potential and he will likely go #1 overall. I don't think there is a greater gap between him and the next qb vs MHJ and the next wr Odunze or Nabers. I like Jayden Daniels more than CW myself, a lot of the qb decisions are greatly reliant on in depth interviews which none of us have access to thus it's really tough to rank the QBs without that in depth analysis. I like what I see of all the top 4 qbs and I've gone back at forth about their rankings. At this point all I can really say is my top 3 is CW, JD and JJ in no particular order. We won't get CW and I would never mortgage the future for what I see as a big boom or bust prospect, we aren't in a good spot to mortgage the future for any prospect really we have too many holes. So realistically I'd like JD or JJ. I respect your opinion on CW being a generational talent, i just don't see it that way myself.
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
It's beyond BBI. And it's real. McCarthy's draft profile is getting a lot of discussion these last two weeks. I would say he's the hottest draft topic.
Now, I wouldn't touch the kid until round two, but it's looking like he's received a pretty firm first round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Council.
You said "a lot of discsuuion."
-- Never mind I found something.
Thanks Manhhatan. Thanks Bw. I'll listen-- thanks again guys. I didnt want to appear arguementative. i raelly wnated to hear. I got soem I can lsiten to now. Thanks.
When I say a qb has the real potential to be elite and win superbowls it means they have all the traits needed for that and are worth the pick at 4-6. I don't see that realistic potential with any of the other QBs. I would feel great with JD or JJ as our pick and I would feel good with Maye too although he is my 4th ranked of the bunch. I think a qb like Rattler has very little potential to be an elite superbowl winning qb and we could get a promising ol or wr or rb instead of him that would be much smarter.
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In comment 16401982 giantstock said:
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
Thanks.
Been trying to find anything. Cant find a thing.
As it stands right now it seems the JJ talk is nothing more than made-up stuff. The word "buzz" in February for a QB projected late rd 1 ealry rd 2 m,mving up so radically seems fantasy until "buzz" beocmes more than just a podcast "floating" something out there without much accountability if it is real or not.
NFL front offices and professional scouts are widely reported to be much higher on JJ than previously thought. Sy agrees with this too. I've been doing a deep dive on researching JJ over the past month and I too think he has incredible potential with a relatively safe floor. These aren't just rumors, it's based on more in depth studies of the player.
Its one thing to have an opinion, but to drown out any other conversation on the topic with the same position everybody knows you have is another.
If Schoen/Daboll feel like one of the QB's that *could* be available to them either at 6 or even in a trade up are the prototypical QB they look for to run their system and fit their criteria of a franchise QB *and* they don't have that conviction with Daniel Jones - then you get the QB.
that simple. If not, you don't take a QB. It's their jobs on the line with this decision.
If Schoen/Daboll feel like one of the QB's that *could* be available to them either at 6 or even in a trade up are the prototypical QB they look for to run their system and fit their criteria of a franchise QB *and* they don't have that conviction with Daniel Jones - then you get the QB.
that simple. If not, you don't take a QB. It's their jobs on the line with this decision.
Agreed, succinct was of putting it. That is my idea behind the real potential of the top 4 qbs.
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In comment 16401989 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16401982 giantstock said:
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
Thanks.
Been trying to find anything. Cant find a thing.
As it stands right now it seems the JJ talk is nothing more than made-up stuff. The word "buzz" in February for a QB projected late rd 1 ealry rd 2 m,mving up so radically seems fantasy until "buzz" beocmes more than just a podcast "floating" something out there without much accountability if it is real or not.
NFL front offices and professional scouts are widely reported to be much higher on JJ than previously thought. Sy agrees with this too. I've been doing a deep dive on researching JJ over the past month and I too think he has incredible potential with a relatively safe floor. These aren't just rumors, it's based on more in depth studies of the player.
Yes I found some stuff.
But you also have what SY said? Was it just a one sentence comment or did he do some mini-analysis somehere?
I was skeptical by teh comments initally but now that I found soem stuff - at leats now I can see the pov of getting him. - I'm no scout so I'll let others discuss good or bad of JJ etc.
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In comment 16401996 giantstock said:
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In comment 16401989 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16401982 giantstock said:
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
Thanks.
Been trying to find anything. Cant find a thing.
As it stands right now it seems the JJ talk is nothing more than made-up stuff. The word "buzz" in February for a QB projected late rd 1 ealry rd 2 m,mving up so radically seems fantasy until "buzz" beocmes more than just a podcast "floating" something out there without much accountability if it is real or not.
NFL front offices and professional scouts are widely reported to be much higher on JJ than previously thought. Sy agrees with this too. I've been doing a deep dive on researching JJ over the past month and I too think he has incredible potential with a relatively safe floor. These aren't just rumors, it's based on more in depth studies of the player.
Yes I found some stuff.
But you also have what SY said? Was it just a one sentence comment or did he do some mini-analysis somehere?
I was skeptical by teh comments initally but now that I found soem stuff - at leats now I can see the pov of getting him. - I'm no scout so I'll let others discuss good or bad of JJ etc.
Here is some stuff he's said about how "many here haven't studied McCarthy and it shows, he is qb1 in terms of his stats when under pressure etc."
Link, I think some on his Twitter too - ( New Window )
If Schoen/Daboll feel like one of the QB's that *could* be available to them either at 6 or even in a trade up are the prototypical QB they look for to run their system and fit their criteria of a franchise QB *and* they don't have that conviction with Daniel Jones - then you get the QB.
that simple. If not, you don't take a QB. It's their jobs on the line with this decision.
This has been my position since I wrote that article.
In addition, there are two risks with Jones: one is his ability, the second is his injury history. Both are significant.
It's not impossible for Jones to play his best football in 2024. But it's also not impossible for him to be done for the season by Halloween.
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In comment 16402007 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16401996 giantstock said:
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In comment 16401989 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16401982 giantstock said:
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Can anyone provide? Other than Harbaugh -- where else is there talk he is going to go early to mid 1st round?
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
There has been buzz in the draft press that McCarthy's stock has risen. It's not just BBI. The PFF draft podcast guys have discussed it. They were at Senior Bowl and apparently it was an idea that got floated there. There was the report that some teams may have McCarthy as QB2. Doesn't mean he's going top 10, but there is some reason to wonder. Same thing happened to Anthony Richardson last year and he went #3. And same thing happened with Levis, and he went in the 2nd round. So take it as data, but not as gospel.
Thanks.
Been trying to find anything. Cant find a thing.
As it stands right now it seems the JJ talk is nothing more than made-up stuff. The word "buzz" in February for a QB projected late rd 1 ealry rd 2 m,mving up so radically seems fantasy until "buzz" beocmes more than just a podcast "floating" something out there without much accountability if it is real or not.
NFL front offices and professional scouts are widely reported to be much higher on JJ than previously thought. Sy agrees with this too. I've been doing a deep dive on researching JJ over the past month and I too think he has incredible potential with a relatively safe floor. These aren't just rumors, it's based on more in depth studies of the player.
Yes I found some stuff.
But you also have what SY said? Was it just a one sentence comment or did he do some mini-analysis somehere?
I was skeptical by teh comments initally but now that I found soem stuff - at leats now I can see the pov of getting him. - I'm no scout so I'll let others discuss good or bad of JJ etc.
Here is some stuff he's said about how "many here haven't studied McCarthy and it shows, he is qb1 in terms of his stats when under pressure etc." Link, I think some on his Twitter too - ( New Window )
Love to read it. Thanks!! Go get him if they love him.
I’d be shocked if the Giants don’t draft a QB with one of their current first three picks (I.E. first or one of the seconds). Jones multiple major injury history demands it.
I assume QBs will go 1st, 2nd & 3rd overall with WR Harrison go at 4th or maybe ahead of one or more of the QBs. I think the cost to trade up into the top 3 will be too high. They likely need to trade with Chicago as Wash and NE will be taking QBs. First overall will be VERY expensive.
So I think with the 3 QBs and Harrison gone, a trade back is the way to go. Pick up enough “draft capital” to move to take BPA with whatever first rounder they get in the trade back and move back into late first round to grab a QB or need WR, EDGE, IOL or CB.
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The I would rather take a shot at Spencer Rattler after already securing a couple of cornerstone pieces. And if there is any QB we are going to reach for, I would rather it be him. Why--? Because he has a high potential and reaching on day 2 or 3 is far less costly when you miss than reaching on a top 10 pick.
When I say a qb has the real potential to be elite and win superbowls it means they have all the traits needed for that and are worth the pick at 4-6. I don't see that realistic potential with any of the other QBs. I would feel great with JD or JJ as our pick and I would feel good with Maye too although he is my 4th ranked of the bunch. I think a qb like Rattler has very little potential to be an elite superbowl winning qb and we could get a promising ol or wr or rb instead of him that would be much smarter.
The "big three" are now apparently the "big four," so it appears if the Giants want him, they will have to take him at #6. Somebody in fact might trade with Arizona or San Diego to take him. I'd be fine taking him between 15 - 20 after a trade down, but doubt he will last that long. But taking him at #6 would be better than trading up for Williams, Maye, or Daniels.
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In comment 16402000 UberAlias said:
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The I would rather take a shot at Spencer Rattler after already securing a couple of cornerstone pieces. And if there is any QB we are going to reach for, I would rather it be him. Why--? Because he has a high potential and reaching on day 2 or 3 is far less costly when you miss than reaching on a top 10 pick.
When I say a qb has the real potential to be elite and win superbowls it means they have all the traits needed for that and are worth the pick at 4-6. I don't see that realistic potential with any of the other QBs. I would feel great with JD or JJ as our pick and I would feel good with Maye too although he is my 4th ranked of the bunch. I think a qb like Rattler has very little potential to be an elite superbowl winning qb and we could get a promising ol or wr or rb instead of him that would be much smarter.
Fair enough if that’s how you evaluate them. But my comments are exclusively about how the team evaluates the QBs. I’m perfectly fine with them taking any of them, but only if they grade them sufficiently high. When you say they need to take a QB at 6 or higher, that’s based on your evaluation. What I can’t tell is what you think they should do if let’s say the have only a late first round grade on JJ. Do they still nerd to pass up on a blue chip player and reach for the QB?
If they don't have a top 15 grade on JJ and we weren't able to get Daniels I would trade down or select Nabers. I have faith in Schoen to not make a reach like that. I wouldn't trade up for Maye either. It's definitely an exciting and pivotal offseason that's for sure.
That is one reason I am skeptical about trading up for any QB, especially given the draft capital required to do so. Another reason is that Schoen and Daboll have not earned the right to do so, not after signing Jones to that ridiculous contract.
I am fine with whatever they do. Just be right.
The wildcard for me is if the dynamic has changed between BD/JS and how that impacts decisions moving forward.
I was banging the table for Josh Allen that year and when we got DJ instead I was infuriated >.< Josh Allen had the best pass rush win % of any player this past season. That is a good example of not reaching for QB over blue chip talent and I agree. I think JJ's floor is a plus DJ with a really high potential ceiling so I would take him at 6 myself. I still believe in Schoen and Daboll so I will trust what they feel is best ultimately. If we end up with Pennix or Rattler later on and a guy like Nabers in rd1 then I trust them.
I may be wrong but I don't recall Jones receiving the type of buzz that that we are starting to hear regarding McCarthy. I don't believe Jones was regarded as a "franchise" type QB (excepting for one former Giants GM).
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#6. This is the Daniel Jones dilemma all over again. Not that the QBs in that draft turned out any better, but we apparently grabbed a guy at #6 that was not rated that highly and bypassed blue chip talent for him. I’d consider trading down, if there were a partner and then possibly grabbing him. But to pass on blue chip talent for a questionable QB is how we got in the shape we’re currently in. If we’re looking for a developmental QB, given the top 3 guys being gone, then look no further then Rattler in the second round.
I may be wrong but I don't recall Jones receiving the type of buzz that that we are starting to hear regarding McCarthy. I don't believe Jones was regarded as a "franchise" type QB (excepting for one former Giants GM).
Yes that is correct. JJ has a stronger arm, quicker mind, and is much more athletic than DJ. It's a lazy comparison, but I understand the sentiment of having ptsd over the DJ pick. McCarthy is not comparable imo.
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
I think Schoen is very good with communication and he will know if he needs to trade up to 4 or 5 to get his guy. He already showed this ability in his move to secure Deonte Banks last year. I don't think a team will be able to jump us for a qb unless they severely overpay to the point of Schoen deciding to trade back or go Nabers.
Its one thing to have an opinion, but to drown out any other conversation on the topic with the same position everybody knows you have is another.
What is the point of this word salad?
So you don’t like people having opinions and expressing them? Not sure why you are on a fan message board where that is the description of 80% of the posts.
“Gee, I hope the Giants draft good players and win more games! Yay! Go Giants!”
Scintiating.
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
I'll quote SY here: "some of you guys haven't studied McCarthy and it shows". I know you don't like him because of the team he played for, but i really don't think you've done any significant research on the player with an open mind. I thought he was just a game manager mediocre prospect myself when watching some of his games casually, but my perspective changed completely after really researching him. I do think he would do best sitting for a while before being thrown into the fire, but his ceiling is sky high with a safe floor imo. At worst we get a better version of DJ, at best we get a franchise qb winning superbowls. Just imo, I know we disagree and that's part of the fun!
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
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With our #6
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
I'll quote SY here: "some of you guys haven't studied McCarthy and it shows". I know you don't like him because of the team he played for, but i really don't think you've done any significant research on the player with an open mind. I thought he was just a game manager mediocre prospect myself when watching some of his games casually, but my perspective changed completely after really researching him. I do think he would do best sitting for a while before being thrown into the fire, but his ceiling is sky high with a safe floor imo. At worst we get a better version of DJ, at best we get a franchise qb winning superbowls. Just imo, I know we disagree and that's part of the fun!
Rock and others are caught up in rankings that came out before the media started catching up to the pros.
We have to have someone man the position
If we dont draft someone this year at some point in the draft then we are essentially leaving the cupboard bare.
If we draft someone and they start in 2025 we save a lot of cap space going forward which can be used to build up the roster.
Even if the qb drafted is no better than Jones you have the cap savings to build a better team. So there is value in drafting a qb even if he is not much better than Jones. Would Pratt be significantly worse than Jones?
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Ties to the 6th overall pick is not Daniel Jones at 6. It’s Derek Jeter who was drafted 6th. These guys are winners, they get it done on the big stage and are both good with the media.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
Watch the Alabama Michigan semifinals game. There is a lot to JJ beyond just being a winner. Michigan couldn't run the ball and had only 70 rushing yards from their RBs in regulation. JJ put the team on his back in that game. He had 250 total yards and 3 passing touchdowns. They don't win that game without him. He did the same in the 2022 Ohio state game. Some of his best games came in the biggest moments against the best defenses in cfb.
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
+1 Agree completely, although I am no expert.
Fixing both lines will be a lot easier without paying an average qb 40 million per year. We can right that ship starting in 2025. For now, it will be a work in progress. We need a promising rookie qb on a rookie contract to have the potential to really build out the lines and the team in general. We could get really quality free agents for the lines without that contract on the books. Until we are free of that, we aren't going to have a whole lot to work with in terms of the cap.
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
You think Brock Purdy is “great”? Eh…
I don’t particularly care for any of the QBs beyond the top 3, including McCarthy. But if the Giants feel THAT strongly that one of these QBs is worthy or that selection, then they should make it.
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Ties to the 6th overall pick is not Daniel Jones at 6. It’s Derek Jeter who was drafted 6th. These guys are winners, they get it done on the big stage and are both good with the media.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
In that huge 2022 Ohio St game against CJ Stroud JJ has 290 total yards (263 passing) with 4 total tds (3 passing) with 0 turnovers while Stroud had 2 interceptions. His mind and play in the pocket are something special imo. Pair that with all the other traits you have and there is a sky high ceiling there.
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In comment 16402109 AROCK1000 said:
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
You think Brock Purdy is “great”? Eh…
Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Look at Jimmy Garrapolo’s numbers in the limited time he got to play with CMC. And certainly no one thinks he’s a top 10 QB now.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
It's definitely not just BBI. Boylhart has McCarthy as the highest rated QB in the entire draft (see link).
Link - ( New Window )
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Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Look at Jimmy Garrapolo’s numbers in the limited time he got to play with CMC. And certainly no one thinks he’s a top 10 QB now.
Brock Purdy in his second season in the NFL, his first full season starting, has numbers that far exceeded any Jimmy G ever had in his 10 year career. I don't think that's a very reasonable comparison tbh
Perfect scenario for a 21 year old rookie.
Rodgers and Mahomes two good examples.
In the case of the Giants, reality is if they take a QB there is almost nothing they can do with Jones and his contract that makes sense in 2024 anyway, so unless he's a ridiculously high priced backup it just makes sense to have him start until he gets hurt or like in the case of Eli/Warner you're ready to make the switch. Not being a dick or a Jones hater but reality is reality - odds are Jones will not last the season as the starting QB.
Takes a lot of balls though to pick a player at 6 knowing you're not planning to have them start day 1. Need complete organizational alignment on that to have a FO/coaching staff comfortable enough to do it.
They don’t have a good QB.
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
When I say game manager I mean a Trent Dilfer kind of player.
Someone who leads,hands the ball off and doesn't make mistakes.
If we had a Ravens level D it would be one thing.
But you want to use a premium pick on that,when we clearly have numerous other holes to fix.
Again I defer to you,but I have seen alot ofnJJs games and what I see is someone worthy of a 2nd/3rd rd pick
Someone who needs development and coaching.
I have nI have not poured over the tape like you and would love to see what you see.
At the end of the day...how much of his looking confident in his progressions had to do with knowing the Ds plays?
He is a hard worker and a great athlete but I am not convinced he is worthy of an early 1st round pick.
Can the Giants afford to take that risk and not have it work out?
Thanks for the look dude
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But unlike many - I want that rookie to sit for a year like Mahomes did. Let Jones play another year. Perhaps even drum up some trade interest if he does indeed play well.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Why waste a year for something that’s unlikely to happen? The odds of Jones playing to a level where someone wants to trade for an injury prone QB with cap hits of $41 and $58 million, who would have had only one year at that level is close to 0. He’d have to have a top 5 QB season for someone to trade for him. Teams will wait for the Giants to cut him.
Rodgers and Mahomes two good examples.
In the case of the Giants, reality is if they take a QB there is almost nothing they can do with Jones and his contract that makes sense in 2024 anyway, so unless he's a ridiculously high priced backup it just makes sense to have him start until he gets hurt or like in the case of Eli/Warner you're ready to make the switch. Not being a dick or a Jones hater but reality is reality - odds are Jones will not last the season as the starting QB.
Takes a lot of balls though to pick a player at 6 knowing you're not planning to have them start day 1. Need complete organizational alignment on that to have a FO/coaching staff comfortable enough to do it.
love and purdy got the same luxury (and sf gave up a lot for lance hoping to afford him the luxury that purdy got behind jimmy g). hurts and lamar too. i think those are examples of how the strategy can make sense even if you aren't ending up so fortunate to get the chance to draft a 1st ballot hof'er. rivers another though he may also get to hof.
for a team with a running qb coming off a serious injury and just 1 more guaranteed year, its a no brainer if they get a chance at a guy they like.
If Love pans out (still kind of TBD IMO and gets a second contract) the Packers will have have had over 3 decades of 3 starting QB's.
Favre 1992 - 2007
Rodgers 2008 - 2022
Love 2023 - ?
even without a second contract from Love it still would be 33 years with 3 QB's.
Probably a record.
Brock Purdy in his second season in the NFL, his first full season starting, has numbers that far exceeded any Jimmy G ever had in his 10 year career. I don't think that's a very reasonable comparison tbh
If I extrapolated Garoppolo’s numbers when he got to play with McCaffrey over a full season, he would’ve led the NFL this year in completion percentage, QB rating, and had a 30:0 TD:INT ratio.
I’m not saying Purdy stinks or anything like that, but when the previous QB (who no one thinks is a top 10 QB) put up numbers that even surpassed Purdy’s in some areas, then maybe we should view his numbers with a bit of caution.
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
But those players all were Super Bowl winning QBs. Even if the rookie outplayed them in camp they weren’t getting the starting job day 1. I think that at minimum, if it’s a legitimate completion, there’s a 50-50 chance a rookie outplays Jones in camp and wins the job.
We hear about Jones’ struggles every year in camp, I don’t think the odds are low that a rookie beats him out.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
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In comment 16402208 ajr2456 said:
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
But those players all were Super Bowl winning QBs. Even if the rookie outplayed them in camp they weren’t getting the starting job day 1. I think that at minimum, if it’s a legitimate completion, there’s a 50-50 chance a rookie outplays Jones in camp and wins the job.
We hear about Jones’ struggles every year in camp, I don’t think the odds are low that a rookie beats him out.
what purpose is served trying to anticipate how a camp competition goes between players not yet healthy and not yet drafted?
head coaches are incentivized to win games. if they dont they get fired. the only thing worse than making the wrong decision would be knowingly making the wrong decision, and in either case that guy is probably getting fired.
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In comment 16402214 pjcas18 said:
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
i think you are misreading my initial comment because the point was simply that there is a benefit of being able to sit vs playing day 1 as a rookie, and the 49ers intended to give that benefit to not just the 7th round pick they got lucky with but also the guy they traded 3 firsts for:
There’s a stark distance between sitting behind Rodgers, Flacco and even Alex Smith than their is sitting behind Daniel Jones was the point. All those teams anticipated competing for a Super Bowl during those years, the Giants aren’t in a similar situation.
As long as the rookie doesn’t prove to be a complete liability in camp and preseason, there’s no benefit to sitting him to start the year in my opinion. It’s just wasting time to evaluate them to see if if they actually are the future. Plus the injury guarantee is hanging over their heads.
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In comment 16402239 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16402214 pjcas18 said:
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
i think you are misreading my initial comment because the point was simply that there is a benefit of being able to sit vs playing day 1 as a rookie, and the 49ers intended to give that benefit to not just the 7th round pick they got lucky with but also the guy they traded 3 firsts for:
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love and purdy got the same luxury (and sf gave up a lot for lance hoping to afford him the luxury that purdy got behind jimmy g). hurts and lamar too.
Yes, Lance qualifies. Purdy, not so relevant.
Basically, don’t throw a rookie qb to the wolves. Especially with our Oline and limited skill players.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
Does this include if Williams, Daniels, and Maye are off the board?
Is there an example of a rookie QB having a good first season and getting ruined by their oline in the following years?
I have a feeling they may need to trade up with LA to secure a QB. There are a few QB needy teams I can see willing to trade up ahead of NYG.
The draft is deep at WR and I think they can add a very good one in round 2.
Round 1: QB
Round 2: WR
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In comment 16402151 Sy'56 said:
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But unlike many - I want that rookie to sit for a year like Mahomes did. Let Jones play another year. Perhaps even drum up some trade interest if he does indeed play well.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Why waste a year for something that’s unlikely to happen? The odds of Jones playing to a level where someone wants to trade for an injury prone QB with cap hits of $41 and $58 million, who would have had only one year at that level is close to 0. He’d have to have a top 5 QB season for someone to trade for him. Teams will wait for the Giants to cut him.
People seem to have a hard time coming to the realization that it's over for Jones. He is not a good passer to begin with. He relies on running to be even remotely productive. And he has both a career threatening injury (neck) and an injury that limits his best asset (acl). He's not Kirk Cousins. He can't fashion a career as a pocket passer. Jones is on his way out of the league.
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
It didn't ruin Burrow. It didn't ruin Herbert. It didn't ruin Eli. The idea that QBs get ruined is an easy thing to say, but there is no real data to support it. It just may be that the QBs you think were ruined, weren't very good to begin with. Correlation does not imply causation.
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
It’s more about giving him time to learn the system and getting used to playing against nfl secondaries than who would be playing in front of him.
Basically, don’t throw a rookie qb to the wolves. Especially with our Oline and limited skill players.
I think having a qb come in more prepared and having more success leads to more confidence and has a positively exponential effect like a snowball gaining momentum rolling down a hill gaining inertia and mass on the way. That's how I see it. I think any of the top 4 rookies would take over mid season. I don't see them sitting the whole year with DJ's play and injury history. I think it would be beneficial to not throw him right into the action though, unless we got Jayden Daniels then I think he would win the job outright, JJ or Maye would benefit from sitting.
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Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
What if there floor is being a solid game manager with a ceiling being elite superbowl winner?
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
I like that list but I'd have:
Jayden Daniels
Caleb Williams
MHJ
JJ McCarthy
Drake Maye
Malik Nabers
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
I like your list as well. And I'm incomplete agreement on the order, except I probably have Nabers ahead of McCarthy at this stage. I just haven't seen enough yet on JJ, nor have any of the analysts or observers I trust done any glowing film work on him - yet. But that doesn't mean I might not see something that can sway me. There's plenty of time still, plus the combine and pro day reports.
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
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In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
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Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
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In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
He most certainly did during the first half of 2020 season. Jones was often careless with the ball on downfield throws and ones over the middle, and getting picked basically every game. It culminated in a game he blew himself against a pretty good Tampa Bay Buc team on Monday Night with his poor throwing decisions.
After that game the coaches reeled him in on what he was allowed to do.
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In comment 16402405 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
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on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
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In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
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on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
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In comment 16402439 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
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on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Die all you want on this hill and every other one you defend 1925 Giants Drive about Stevie Wonder.
I disagree
Unless one knows the play call and what he is or is or is not looking at….which none of us do….then none of us know….there are so many different variables to each play based on what the D is showing
None of us know this information
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In comment 16402448 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16402439 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
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on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Die all you want on this hill and every other one you defend 1925 Giants Drive about Stevie Wonder.
Are you really this stupid?
For the THIRD time…..Jones needs to go!!!!
Did you get that?….we need to go in a different direction immediately!!!
So please explain to me in your infinite wisdom how I am defending the front office just because I said we don’t know what his pre snap reads are
Moron
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In comment 16402405 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Figure what out?
Please explain to me how saying that we don’t know what the pre snap reads are is defending the front office?
Or by saying now for the 4th time that Jones needs to go
Be specific
All true….but my point is that we don’t know what the play call is to decipher that information
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
Good list. I like Edunze more than Nabers but defer to scouts. I would put Alt into the mix as I think he is a generational OL. He could be our version of Lane Johnson.
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
You don't know what you're talking about.
lol.. you can't dispute the point so you say some nonsense.
Jones career TD:INTs is 62:40. That's terrible in case you don't understand numbers.
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
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In comment 16402418 Manhattan said:
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
And just because he hasn’t thrown a ton of TD’s doesn’t necessarily equate to having an interception problem
Try again Producer….you calling someone else arrogant 😂😂😂😂
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In comment 16402427 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16402418 Manhattan said:
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
And just because he hasn’t thrown a ton of TD’s doesn’t necessarily equate to having an interception problem
Try again Producer….you calling someone else arrogant 😂😂😂😂
He didn't throw TD passes because they limited the offense. When they opened up the offense in 2023 his INT ratio was 3.8 which would have been 32nd among NFL starters and is worse than Mac Jones. Sorry the fucking numbers tell a different story about Daniel Jones than you have in your head. He can't function in a normal passing offense without throwing picks.
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
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This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
You literally were bitching above that Jones has NEVER had an interception problem.
Brady was great at recognizing what was in front of him and what it may become, post snap.
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?
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
Well you are wrong. They limited the passing game to reduce mistakes, including INTs, which resulted in overall lack of production and few TDs. Yea, you don't throw as many INTs when you lead the league in throws behind the line of scrimmage and shortest air yards per attempt. They opened up the passing game and the INTs rose to an unacceptable level. The bottom line is Daniel Jones cannot throw TDs without a high rate of INTs. This is what the math, science, and the real world says about Daniel Jones as a QB.
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In comment 16402526 ajr2456 said:
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?
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
You literally were bitching above that Jones has NEVER had an interception problem.
So….and I stand by that
And I’ll say it again for now the FIFTH time as you obviously can’t read
He needs to go and we need an upgrade at the position
So to recap your definition of a shill for the front office is disagreeing with a data point
Brilliant
I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
Let's assume that.
So how the hell do you predict that based on college performance?
I think that's impossible...
Nice spin
You went from me always defending the front office to “giving me an out”
Try again dipshit and learn how to use the reply button
You have a problem with me expressing my opinion….feel free to ignore me as opposed to attacking me for having a burner account
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
Interceptions are a problem, but not throwing TD passes is even worse. Considerably.
I know I am preaching to the converted, but that's the issue with Jones...
Still, this is a young player who needs to do a better job of reading zone coverage, at times, as he will throw into tight windows (See Virginia and Temple games) and he will force the ball into a crowd every so often. In order to increase his chances for starting at the next level, he must do a better job of looking off his primary targets and go through route progressions.
Set Up...As book smart as he is, Jones still looks like a neophyte when it comes to reading defenses. Having a coach call your plays eliminated much of his thought process, but he is not the type who will stand tall and absorb the sack, making poor choices trying to throw the ball into the crowd (51 pass break-ups included 18 at the line of scrimmage). While not alarming, his fumble issues seem to be the result of poor ball distribution when forced to improvise on the move.
He does not really have heavy feet, but there are times where he looks too methodical in his drops. Once his feet are set, he will stand and deliver, though. He has a decent throwing motion, but has a bit of a wind-up in his release. He has the body control to stand tall and be ready in the pocket, but he seems to lose some velocity on his tosses when throwing on the run. His quickness dropping back from center is good and he does keep his feet under him, playing with good balance in the pocket (does not translate when flushed out though).
Reading Defenses...Jones has to overcome his �love� for his primary target and do a better job of going through route progression to locate secondary targets. When he tries to force the issue too much when under pressure, it results in him firing the ball right into windows. While his interception rate was low (nine in 2018 on 392 attempts), the opponents go to deflect 13% of his passes (51) in 2018. He is prone to making some bad decisions, as he just seems to throw too much into double coverage (see at least eight passes deflected in each of the Virginia Tech, North Carolina and Clemson games). When he is quick to pick up the blitz, he knows where to go with the ball, showing good vision and judgment on his reads, but he tends to force the ball into coverage when his protection breaks down. He does show good timing and touch, but he has to stop forcing his throws into coverage.
He can be smooth driving back from center to his throwing point, but lacks the suddenness to avoid and slip tackles on the move. When he stands tall in the pocket, he is more accurate, but he needs to work on making all his throws from the outside hash (loses accuracy, especially when he doesn�t step into his passes).
Release...With that little hitch/wind-up, Jones will be inconsistent with his release. He locks on to his target, starts patting the ball waiting for it to open and fails to make progression reads as you would expect from a player with his intelligence level. In Mobile, he seems to show a high release on his throws. He sometimes reverted to a full wind up, but there were times that he showed the ability to deliver most of his throws with quickness. Even when he used a long throwing motion, he got the ball away in time. When he kept his delivery a little bit higher than �, he carried the ball properly to get a quick release.
In a recent report from one team with a quarterback need, they recognize that Jones is generally effective vs. man coverage, but does struggle quite a bit in attempts to recognize the zone coverage, where most of his costly mistakes (interceptions, pass break-ups) happen. He makes questionable decisions when flushed out of the pocket (see Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, North Carolina games) and needs to do a better job of surveying and going through progressions rather than locking on to his primary target (does not look off well enough).
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I guess we didn't think anybody would think and post this stupidly about the Giants on their own.
Nice spin
You went from me always defending the front office to “giving me an out”
Try again dipshit and learn how to use the reply button
You have a problem with me expressing my opinion….feel free to ignore me as opposed to attacking me for having a burner account
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I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
Let's assume that.
So how the hell do you predict that based on college performance?
I think that's impossible...
How does he break down film. How does he identify things like a C4 look that is really a closed middle. Can he ID a defenders leverage as a tell that he's going to move...things like that.
He needs the requisite tools, to be sure. But tools aren't useful if the guy cannot use them.
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22nd in interception percentage. In 2020 he was 18th. Then they reined him in in 2021 and 2022.
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
Interceptions are a problem, but not throwing TD passes is even worse. Considerably.
I know I am preaching to the converted, but that's the issue with Jones...
INTs and TDs are mathematically connected. If you can't throw TDs without a precipitous rise in INTs, you have an interception problem. This is why Jones is afraid to be aggressive. He can't keep the ball out of harms way when he throws the ball downfield.
It *should* be (painfully) obvious to everyone. However, we know that Jones still has his supporters. Unfortunately, one of them (at least as of last season) was John Mara. If Mara hasn't gotten it through his thick skull that Jones is not the answer, we may be in for two more years of hopelessness.
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And I hope the front office has too. Add in the fact that he is using up so much of our cap space and it's truly insult to injury. The only way to get this franchise back on track and build out the roster is by getting a good young qb, drafting well, ridding ourselves of DJ and enjoying the extra cap space of a rookie qb contract. I feel like this is obvious.
It *should* be (painfully) obvious to everyone. However, we know that Jones still has his supporters. Unfortunately, one of them (at least as of last season) was John Mara. If Mara hasn't gotten it through his thick skull that Jones is not the answer, we may be in for two more years of hopelessness.
It's up to Schoen to have the balls and brawn to tell Mara we really like this kid as a prospect and we are taking him. I have faith. I think Schoen personally attended games of each of the top 4 QBs in the draft.
So true!!
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In comment 16402405 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
I would like to read the article where BD says the O was scaled down to limit TOs. Please post site.
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In comment 16402418 Manhattan said:
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
So true.
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and Jones was struggling to effectively decipher and make the correct calls.
I disagree
Unless one knows the play call and what he is or is or is not looking at….which none of us do….then none of us know….there are so many different variables to each play based on what the D is showing
None of us know this information
I love these armchair QBs who know so much about QB play. IMO, most of us on this board have very little knowledge of QBs options, protections and what he's looking for on each play.
INTs and TDs are mathematically connected. If you can't throw TDs without a precipitous rise in INTs, you have an interception problem. This is why Jones is afraid to be aggressive. He can't keep the ball out of harms way when he throws the ball downfield.
I get it, but 2022 performance looks a lot better, say, if Jones had 27TDs / 13INTs.
I'll take 12 more passing TDs and live with the 2X+ INTs.
This goes back to the point many of us made when reviewing Jones's 2022 season: he was brilliantly managed by Dabka with their sturdy training wheels.
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In comment 16402448 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16402439 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
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on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Die all you want on this hill and every other one you defend 1925 Giants Drive about Stevie Wonder.
I have the volume turned up and I hear what you're talking about, but not only by DJ but every other QB in the NFL, even the elites. Those are common mistakes sometimes committed by all QBs.
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
A quick look shows that DJ’s career interception rate is top-20 all time. So, hovering around league average years 1 and 2 + excellent int % from year 3 and on makes me think interceptions aren’t a major issue. And his numbers are greatly inflated by EE’s volleyball hands