It seems that the overwhelming need for selecting a QB early is a BBI obsession. Other teams such as Atlanta at 8, and Pittsburgh at 20 are in the search for a QB. That leaves a strong maybe for Tennessee at 7, Minny at 11 because of Cousins possible value to the team, Denver at 12 due to the strain between Wilson and Payton, and Las Vegas at 13.
I don't believe QBs McCarthy, Nix and Penix will be there for the Giants in the second round. The Giants should not use their draft capital to move up into the second round with some many other needs. Try to preserve your top 100 picks as much as feasible.
If one of these there QBs wow us at the combine and private workouts lets grab one of them at 6. If they all impress my choice would be JJ McCarthy. Penix scares me because of his past injuries and Nix is ok.The only caveat would be if one of the projected top three falls to us at 6 and then we would know if Schoen/Daboll really had one of those three in their sights. If we get our QB at 6 then the rest of the draft should be used to fill holes in the roster.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
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With our #6
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
I'll quote SY here: "some of you guys haven't studied McCarthy and it shows". I know you don't like him because of the team he played for, but i really don't think you've done any significant research on the player with an open mind. I thought he was just a game manager mediocre prospect myself when watching some of his games casually, but my perspective changed completely after really researching him. I do think he would do best sitting for a while before being thrown into the fire, but his ceiling is sky high with a safe floor imo. At worst we get a better version of DJ, at best we get a franchise qb winning superbowls. Just imo, I know we disagree and that's part of the fun!
Rock and others are caught up in rankings that came out before the media started catching up to the pros.
We have to have someone man the position
If we dont draft someone this year at some point in the draft then we are essentially leaving the cupboard bare.
If we draft someone and they start in 2025 we save a lot of cap space going forward which can be used to build up the roster.
Even if the qb drafted is no better than Jones you have the cap savings to build a better team. So there is value in drafting a qb even if he is not much better than Jones. Would Pratt be significantly worse than Jones?
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Ties to the 6th overall pick is not Daniel Jones at 6. It’s Derek Jeter who was drafted 6th. These guys are winners, they get it done on the big stage and are both good with the media.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
Watch the Alabama Michigan semifinals game. There is a lot to JJ beyond just being a winner. Michigan couldn't run the ball and had only 70 rushing yards from their RBs in regulation. JJ put the team on his back in that game. He had 250 total yards and 3 passing touchdowns. They don't win that game without him. He did the same in the 2022 Ohio state game. Some of his best games came in the biggest moments against the best defenses in cfb.
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Awesome
Folks...seriously if one of the top 3 QBs drop to us at 6,great if not either take WR or trade down..
Don't get get caught up in the JJ no sense
+1 Agree completely, although I am no expert.
Fixing both lines will be a lot easier without paying an average qb 40 million per year. We can right that ship starting in 2025. For now, it will be a work in progress. We need a promising rookie qb on a rookie contract to have the potential to really build out the lines and the team in general. We could get really quality free agents for the lines without that contract on the books. Until we are free of that, we aren't going to have a whole lot to work with in terms of the cap.
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
You think Brock Purdy is “great”? Eh…
I don’t particularly care for any of the QBs beyond the top 3, including McCarthy. But if the Giants feel THAT strongly that one of these QBs is worthy or that selection, then they should make it.
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Ties to the 6th overall pick is not Daniel Jones at 6. It’s Derek Jeter who was drafted 6th. These guys are winners, they get it done on the big stage and are both good with the media.
I do believe that that QBs will be drafted 1-3. Cardinals may likely keep their pick and pair MHJ with Kyler. Chargers scare me, as a team that will trade out for a team looking for a QB. Imagine Harbaugh having some sort of control of JJ’s landing spot.
“These guys are winners.” Nonsense. Individuals don’t win games in the NFL. Teams do. You don’t draft a QB from a winning program because his team won, especially not one that won with the defense and a running game.
In that huge 2022 Ohio St game against CJ Stroud JJ has 290 total yards (263 passing) with 4 total tds (3 passing) with 0 turnovers while Stroud had 2 interceptions. His mind and play in the pocket are something special imo. Pair that with all the other traits you have and there is a sky high ceiling there.
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In comment 16402109 AROCK1000 said:
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
You think Brock Purdy is “great”? Eh…
Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Look at Jimmy Garrapolo’s numbers in the limited time he got to play with CMC. And certainly no one thinks he’s a top 10 QB now.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Or is this Giants fans imagining things by trying to make themselves feel better on draft day that the Giants will take a QB early?
Inventing fantasies is not reality.
It's definitely not just BBI. Boylhart has McCarthy as the highest rated QB in the entire draft (see link).
Link - ( New Window )
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Name 10 qbs you definitively think are better than Purdy and keep in mind it was Purdy's 2nd season in the NFL last year. If say he is already top 10 until proven otherwise.
Look at Jimmy Garrapolo’s numbers in the limited time he got to play with CMC. And certainly no one thinks he’s a top 10 QB now.
Brock Purdy in his second season in the NFL, his first full season starting, has numbers that far exceeded any Jimmy G ever had in his 10 year career. I don't think that's a very reasonable comparison tbh
Perfect scenario for a 21 year old rookie.
Rodgers and Mahomes two good examples.
In the case of the Giants, reality is if they take a QB there is almost nothing they can do with Jones and his contract that makes sense in 2024 anyway, so unless he's a ridiculously high priced backup it just makes sense to have him start until he gets hurt or like in the case of Eli/Warner you're ready to make the switch. Not being a dick or a Jones hater but reality is reality - odds are Jones will not last the season as the starting QB.
Takes a lot of balls though to pick a player at 6 knowing you're not planning to have them start day 1. Need complete organizational alignment on that to have a FO/coaching staff comfortable enough to do it.
They don’t have a good QB.
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Will simply have to agree to disagree on JJ
He has forgotten more about scouting than I ever have known.
However I have seen alot of JJs games and he simply struck me as a game manager
Certainly not worthy of the #6 pick.
Last time we jumped for a QB as a reach was for DJ,and we all saw what happened.
Let some other team jump and trade with them and reap the benefits
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
When I say game manager I mean a Trent Dilfer kind of player.
Someone who leads,hands the ball off and doesn't make mistakes.
If we had a Ravens level D it would be one thing.
But you want to use a premium pick on that,when we clearly have numerous other holes to fix.
Again I defer to you,but I have seen alot ofnJJs games and what I see is someone worthy of a 2nd/3rd rd pick
Someone who needs development and coaching.
I have nI have not poured over the tape like you and would love to see what you see.
At the end of the day...how much of his looking confident in his progressions had to do with knowing the Ds plays?
He is a hard worker and a great athlete but I am not convinced he is worthy of an early 1st round pick.
Can the Giants afford to take that risk and not have it work out?
Thanks for the look dude
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But unlike many - I want that rookie to sit for a year like Mahomes did. Let Jones play another year. Perhaps even drum up some trade interest if he does indeed play well.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Why waste a year for something that’s unlikely to happen? The odds of Jones playing to a level where someone wants to trade for an injury prone QB with cap hits of $41 and $58 million, who would have had only one year at that level is close to 0. He’d have to have a top 5 QB season for someone to trade for him. Teams will wait for the Giants to cut him.
Rodgers and Mahomes two good examples.
In the case of the Giants, reality is if they take a QB there is almost nothing they can do with Jones and his contract that makes sense in 2024 anyway, so unless he's a ridiculously high priced backup it just makes sense to have him start until he gets hurt or like in the case of Eli/Warner you're ready to make the switch. Not being a dick or a Jones hater but reality is reality - odds are Jones will not last the season as the starting QB.
Takes a lot of balls though to pick a player at 6 knowing you're not planning to have them start day 1. Need complete organizational alignment on that to have a FO/coaching staff comfortable enough to do it.
love and purdy got the same luxury (and sf gave up a lot for lance hoping to afford him the luxury that purdy got behind jimmy g). hurts and lamar too. i think those are examples of how the strategy can make sense even if you aren't ending up so fortunate to get the chance to draft a 1st ballot hof'er. rivers another though he may also get to hof.
for a team with a running qb coming off a serious injury and just 1 more guaranteed year, its a no brainer if they get a chance at a guy they like.
If Love pans out (still kind of TBD IMO and gets a second contract) the Packers will have have had over 3 decades of 3 starting QB's.
Favre 1992 - 2007
Rodgers 2008 - 2022
Love 2023 - ?
even without a second contract from Love it still would be 33 years with 3 QB's.
Probably a record.
Brock Purdy in his second season in the NFL, his first full season starting, has numbers that far exceeded any Jimmy G ever had in his 10 year career. I don't think that's a very reasonable comparison tbh
If I extrapolated Garoppolo’s numbers when he got to play with McCaffrey over a full season, he would’ve led the NFL this year in completion percentage, QB rating, and had a 30:0 TD:INT ratio.
I’m not saying Purdy stinks or anything like that, but when the previous QB (who no one thinks is a top 10 QB) put up numbers that even surpassed Purdy’s in some areas, then maybe we should view his numbers with a bit of caution.
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
But those players all were Super Bowl winning QBs. Even if the rookie outplayed them in camp they weren’t getting the starting job day 1. I think that at minimum, if it’s a legitimate completion, there’s a 50-50 chance a rookie outplays Jones in camp and wins the job.
We hear about Jones’ struggles every year in camp, I don’t think the odds are low that a rookie beats him out.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
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In comment 16402208 ajr2456 said:
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
and what happened those seasons when wentz and flacco struggled? what happened to eli in 2019?
if they draft a guy in the first round that guy will have a chance to play to right away. this regime wasnt afraid to play josh allen from day 1. if jones is healthy the odds are a rookie wont beat him out day 1, though it could happen, but that ignores the obvious that nobody knows for sure when jones is going to be 100% healthy.
But those players all were Super Bowl winning QBs. Even if the rookie outplayed them in camp they weren’t getting the starting job day 1. I think that at minimum, if it’s a legitimate completion, there’s a 50-50 chance a rookie outplays Jones in camp and wins the job.
We hear about Jones’ struggles every year in camp, I don’t think the odds are low that a rookie beats him out.
what purpose is served trying to anticipate how a camp competition goes between players not yet healthy and not yet drafted?
head coaches are incentivized to win games. if they dont they get fired. the only thing worse than making the wrong decision would be knowingly making the wrong decision, and in either case that guy is probably getting fired.
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In comment 16402214 pjcas18 said:
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
i think you are misreading my initial comment because the point was simply that there is a benefit of being able to sit vs playing day 1 as a rookie, and the 49ers intended to give that benefit to not just the 7th round pick they got lucky with but also the guy they traded 3 firsts for:
There’s a stark distance between sitting behind Rodgers, Flacco and even Alex Smith than their is sitting behind Daniel Jones was the point. All those teams anticipated competing for a Super Bowl during those years, the Giants aren’t in a similar situation.
As long as the rookie doesn’t prove to be a complete liability in camp and preseason, there’s no benefit to sitting him to start the year in my opinion. It’s just wasting time to evaluate them to see if if they actually are the future. Plus the injury guarantee is hanging over their heads.
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In comment 16402239 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16402214 pjcas18 said:
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was always going to get that luxury. He was a 7th round pick. He was an afterthought with no expectations to start let alone being a lock to make the team, but Love is another good example even though being picked at 26 vs 6 probably has slightly different expectations. You still expect a 1st round pick to play year 1 even if they don't start day 1.
the 49ers made a strategic decision to trade 3 firsts for lance expecting him to need the same time behind jimmy g purdy got. that purdy took better advantage of that time and ended up the better player was dumb luck.
Not sure your point.
Purdy is not an example that fits in the drafting of a QB with a high pick yet allowing them to sit and learn from an established starter like Mahomes or Rodgers (for example or Love) like was being discussed.
and even some of the other examples provided.
Purdy was luck, similar to Brady. Not a strategic decision.
i think you are misreading my initial comment because the point was simply that there is a benefit of being able to sit vs playing day 1 as a rookie, and the 49ers intended to give that benefit to not just the 7th round pick they got lucky with but also the guy they traded 3 firsts for:
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love and purdy got the same luxury (and sf gave up a lot for lance hoping to afford him the luxury that purdy got behind jimmy g). hurts and lamar too.
Yes, Lance qualifies. Purdy, not so relevant.
Basically, don’t throw a rookie qb to the wolves. Especially with our Oline and limited skill players.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
Does this include if Williams, Daniels, and Maye are off the board?
Is there an example of a rookie QB having a good first season and getting ruined by their oline in the following years?
I have a feeling they may need to trade up with LA to secure a QB. There are a few QB needy teams I can see willing to trade up ahead of NYG.
The draft is deep at WR and I think they can add a very good one in round 2.
Round 1: QB
Round 2: WR
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In comment 16402151 Sy'56 said:
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But unlike many - I want that rookie to sit for a year like Mahomes did. Let Jones play another year. Perhaps even drum up some trade interest if he does indeed play well.
I agree, in an ideal world we could get something for DJ in a trade after he performs well enough to get something in return. Letting a rookie sit until the coaches really feel he is ready has numerous benefits. Plus we already are on the hook for 47 million to DJ in 2024 so we might as well see if he can drum up some trade value. I do worry about the 25 million dollar injury guarantee, but it's probably a gamble worth taking. JJ McCarthy in this sense could be a perfect fit for our situation if Schoen n Co see him fit. He could sit for half a season to a full season while growing mentally and physically until he's ready to get into the action with his best chance for success. We could also theoretically have a much better o line and supporting cast for him in 2025 having another draft and extra money to spend after parting ways with DJ.
Why waste a year for something that’s unlikely to happen? The odds of Jones playing to a level where someone wants to trade for an injury prone QB with cap hits of $41 and $58 million, who would have had only one year at that level is close to 0. He’d have to have a top 5 QB season for someone to trade for him. Teams will wait for the Giants to cut him.
People seem to have a hard time coming to the realization that it's over for Jones. He is not a good passer to begin with. He relies on running to be even remotely productive. And he has both a career threatening injury (neck) and an injury that limits his best asset (acl). He's not Kirk Cousins. He can't fashion a career as a pocket passer. Jones is on his way out of the league.
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
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In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
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“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
It didn't ruin Burrow. It didn't ruin Herbert. It didn't ruin Eli. The idea that QBs get ruined is an easy thing to say, but there is no real data to support it. It just may be that the QBs you think were ruined, weren't very good to begin with. Correlation does not imply causation.
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Was behind Rodgers, Lamar was behind Flacco, and Hurts was behind Wentz. That’s much different than being behind Jones on a team that just went 6-11.
It’s more about giving him time to learn the system and getting used to playing against nfl secondaries than who would be playing in front of him.
Basically, don’t throw a rookie qb to the wolves. Especially with our Oline and limited skill players.
I think having a qb come in more prepared and having more success leads to more confidence and has a positively exponential effect like a snowball gaining momentum rolling down a hill gaining inertia and mass on the way. That's how I see it. I think any of the top 4 rookies would take over mid season. I don't see them sitting the whole year with DJ's play and injury history. I think it would be beneficial to not throw him right into the action though, unless we got Jayden Daniels then I think he would win the job outright, JJ or Maye would benefit from sitting.