It seems that the overwhelming need for selecting a QB early is a BBI obsession. Other teams such as Atlanta at 8, and Pittsburgh at 20 are in the search for a QB. That leaves a strong maybe for Tennessee at 7, Minny at 11 because of Cousins possible value to the team, Denver at 12 due to the strain between Wilson and Payton, and Las Vegas at 13.
I don't believe QBs McCarthy, Nix and Penix will be there for the Giants in the second round. The Giants should not use their draft capital to move up into the second round with some many other needs. Try to preserve your top 100 picks as much as feasible.
If one of these there QBs wow us at the combine and private workouts lets grab one of them at 6. If they all impress my choice would be JJ McCarthy. Penix scares me because of his past injuries and Nix is ok.The only caveat would be if one of the projected top three falls to us at 6 and then we would know if Schoen/Daboll really had one of those three in their sights. If we get our QB at 6 then the rest of the draft should be used to fill holes in the roster.
Quote:
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
What if there floor is being a solid game manager with a ceiling being elite superbowl winner?
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
I like that list but I'd have:
Jayden Daniels
Caleb Williams
MHJ
JJ McCarthy
Drake Maye
Malik Nabers
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
I like your list as well. And I'm incomplete agreement on the order, except I probably have Nabers ahead of McCarthy at this stage. I just haven't seen enough yet on JJ, nor have any of the analysts or observers I trust done any glowing film work on him - yet. But that doesn't mean I might not see something that can sway me. There's plenty of time still, plus the combine and pro day reports.
Quote:
In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
Quote:
In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Quote:
Game manager is not the insult I think you are trying to make it out to be.
Game manager can be one of the best traits a QB can have, so I'm not sure that is the best terminology to use. Purdy is a game manager - and I think he is great. Brees was a game manager - notably over his final 3 years - and I thought he was great. Tom Brady was a game manager for the majority of his career - notably the front half. He was all-time great.
NYG wishes they had a game manager right now.
None of those players you mentioned were chosen in the lottery.
IMV, if you are investing in a player that high you should expect some elite skills, not someone that you hope can be a game-manager over time.
And I agree being a game-manager isn't an insult, but I don't think a GM goes into a big investment like that hoping for one.
I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
Quote:
In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
He most certainly did during the first half of 2020 season. Jones was often careless with the ball on downfield throws and ones over the middle, and getting picked basically every game. It culminated in a game he blew himself against a pretty good Tampa Bay Buc team on Monday Night with his poor throwing decisions.
After that game the coaches reeled him in on what he was allowed to do.
Quote:
In comment 16402405 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Quote:
on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Quote:
In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
Quote:
on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Quote:
In comment 16402439 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
Quote:
on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Die all you want on this hill and every other one you defend 1925 Giants Drive about Stevie Wonder.
I disagree
Unless one knows the play call and what he is or is or is not looking at….which none of us do….then none of us know….there are so many different variables to each play based on what the D is showing
None of us know this information
Quote:
In comment 16402448 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16402439 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16402433 ThomasG said:
Quote:
on poor throwing decisions into coverages downfield, and he got reined in. He doesn't process well pre-snap nor see the field well post-snap.
This isn't new. Unless you don't want to see it.
I see it just fine and exactly how do you know what he is processing pre snap?
I don’t nor does anybody else know except the coaches
I am of the opinion that we need a change at the position….but let’s not make stuff up either then neither you nor I know about
Not unexpected coming from you.
If you can't see it yourself, turn the volume up and listen to the commentators of the Giants games tell you. Or maybe the defensive players from several of the other NFC teams that have been pretty outspoken about how they easily read him.
Or maybe just watch Daboll toss a tablet at him in disgust because he can't see the field and makes bad throws/decisions.
I guess it's all a mirage?
Coming from me ?
F-you
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue….he needs to go and I hope we draft somebody else
But none of know what his pre snap reads are
Die all you want on this hill and every other one you defend 1925 Giants Drive about Stevie Wonder.
Are you really this stupid?
For the THIRD time…..Jones needs to go!!!!
Did you get that?….we need to go in a different direction immediately!!!
So please explain to me in your infinite wisdom how I am defending the front office just because I said we don’t know what his pre snap reads are
Moron
Quote:
In comment 16402405 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16402314 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402285 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16402271 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“Throwing them to the wolves” is nonsense in my opinion. As long as they aren’t tripping over themselves, it’s much more valuable for a rebuild for a young QB to get that game experience in year 1, so that year 2 is spent learning to counter punch what defenses are giving you after having a year of film to learn your tendencies, and not year 3.
The Giants need to be competitive in 2025, it’ll be much easier with a QB who has as much experience as possible with live bullets. Just my opinion.
Bad OL play can ruin a young QB forever
I think it ruined DJ.
I recall him making great throws and audibles early in his career...
I am honestly trying but do not recall DJ making great audibles/throws early in his career.
Did these happen during the 3 games in his rookie season when he played Detroit, Jets and WFT and then the world had to be dumbed-down for him going forward because he was a turnover machine?
What does fumbling in the pocket….have literally anything to do with the offense being “dumbed” down for him?
Throwing picks…sure….but he never really had an interception problem
Bad ball security has nothing to do with scaling back the offense
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Figure what out?
Please explain to me how saying that we don’t know what the pre snap reads are is defending the front office?
Or by saying now for the 4th time that Jones needs to go
Be specific
All true….but my point is that we don’t know what the play call is to decipher that information
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
Marvin Harrison Jr.
JJ McCarthy
Malik Nabers
Good list. I like Edunze more than Nabers but defer to scouts. I would put Alt into the mix as I think he is a generational OL. He could be our version of Lane Johnson.
Jones has an interception problem. His TD:INT rations aren't good throughout his career. This yearvitcwas 2:6. They scaled back the offense to limit his turnovers, which helped somewhat, but it's not sustainable to run a 1978 offense in 2023. There is certainly a link between how vertical and aggressive the offense is and interception ratio.
You don't know what you're talking about.
lol.. you can't dispute the point so you say some nonsense.
Jones career TD:INTs is 62:40. That's terrible in case you don't understand numbers.
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
Quote:
In comment 16402418 Manhattan said:
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
And just because he hasn’t thrown a ton of TD’s doesn’t necessarily equate to having an interception problem
Try again Producer….you calling someone else arrogant 😂😂😂😂
Quote:
In comment 16402427 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16402418 Manhattan said:
Dude…seriously shut up already
There are a lot of things you can say about him
Having an interception problem has never been one of them
If you tell someone to shut up you should be correct. Jones' career TD to INT ratio is 62 to 40. That's an interception problem. When you are both arrogant and wrong it makes you look MORE stupid.
And just because he hasn’t thrown a ton of TD’s doesn’t necessarily equate to having an interception problem
Try again Producer….you calling someone else arrogant 😂😂😂😂
He didn't throw TD passes because they limited the offense. When they opened up the offense in 2023 his INT ratio was 3.8 which would have been 32nd among NFL starters and is worse than Mac Jones. Sorry the fucking numbers tell a different story about Daniel Jones than you have in your head. He can't function in a normal passing offense without throwing picks.
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
Quote:
?
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
You literally were bitching above that Jones has NEVER had an interception problem.
Brady was great at recognizing what was in front of him and what it may become, post snap.
Quote:
?
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
Well you are wrong. They limited the passing game to reduce mistakes, including INTs, which resulted in overall lack of production and few TDs. Yea, you don't throw as many INTs when you lead the league in throws behind the line of scrimmage and shortest air yards per attempt. They opened up the passing game and the INTs rose to an unacceptable level. The bottom line is Daniel Jones cannot throw TDs without a high rate of INTs. This is what the math, science, and the real world says about Daniel Jones as a QB.
Quote:
In comment 16402526 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
?
This year….yes
Previous years…I’d say no
You literally were bitching above that Jones has NEVER had an interception problem.
So….and I stand by that
And I’ll say it again for now the FIFTH time as you obviously can’t read
He needs to go and we need an upgrade at the position
So to recap your definition of a shill for the front office is disagreeing with a data point
Brilliant
I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
Let's assume that.
So how the hell do you predict that based on college performance?
I think that's impossible...
Nice spin
You went from me always defending the front office to “giving me an out”
Try again dipshit and learn how to use the reply button
You have a problem with me expressing my opinion….feel free to ignore me as opposed to attacking me for having a burner account
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
Interceptions are a problem, but not throwing TD passes is even worse. Considerably.
I know I am preaching to the converted, but that's the issue with Jones...
Still, this is a young player who needs to do a better job of reading zone coverage, at times, as he will throw into tight windows (See Virginia and Temple games) and he will force the ball into a crowd every so often. In order to increase his chances for starting at the next level, he must do a better job of looking off his primary targets and go through route progressions.
Set Up...As book smart as he is, Jones still looks like a neophyte when it comes to reading defenses. Having a coach call your plays eliminated much of his thought process, but he is not the type who will stand tall and absorb the sack, making poor choices trying to throw the ball into the crowd (51 pass break-ups included 18 at the line of scrimmage). While not alarming, his fumble issues seem to be the result of poor ball distribution when forced to improvise on the move.
He does not really have heavy feet, but there are times where he looks too methodical in his drops. Once his feet are set, he will stand and deliver, though. He has a decent throwing motion, but has a bit of a wind-up in his release. He has the body control to stand tall and be ready in the pocket, but he seems to lose some velocity on his tosses when throwing on the run. His quickness dropping back from center is good and he does keep his feet under him, playing with good balance in the pocket (does not translate when flushed out though).
Reading Defenses...Jones has to overcome his �love� for his primary target and do a better job of going through route progression to locate secondary targets. When he tries to force the issue too much when under pressure, it results in him firing the ball right into windows. While his interception rate was low (nine in 2018 on 392 attempts), the opponents go to deflect 13% of his passes (51) in 2018. He is prone to making some bad decisions, as he just seems to throw too much into double coverage (see at least eight passes deflected in each of the Virginia Tech, North Carolina and Clemson games). When he is quick to pick up the blitz, he knows where to go with the ball, showing good vision and judgment on his reads, but he tends to force the ball into coverage when his protection breaks down. He does show good timing and touch, but he has to stop forcing his throws into coverage.
He can be smooth driving back from center to his throwing point, but lacks the suddenness to avoid and slip tackles on the move. When he stands tall in the pocket, he is more accurate, but he needs to work on making all his throws from the outside hash (loses accuracy, especially when he doesn�t step into his passes).
Release...With that little hitch/wind-up, Jones will be inconsistent with his release. He locks on to his target, starts patting the ball waiting for it to open and fails to make progression reads as you would expect from a player with his intelligence level. In Mobile, he seems to show a high release on his throws. He sometimes reverted to a full wind up, but there were times that he showed the ability to deliver most of his throws with quickness. Even when he used a long throwing motion, he got the ball away in time. When he kept his delivery a little bit higher than �, he carried the ball properly to get a quick release.
In a recent report from one team with a quarterback need, they recognize that Jones is generally effective vs. man coverage, but does struggle quite a bit in attempts to recognize the zone coverage, where most of his costly mistakes (interceptions, pass break-ups) happen. He makes questionable decisions when flushed out of the pocket (see Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, North Carolina games) and needs to do a better job of surveying and going through progressions rather than locking on to his primary target (does not look off well enough).
Quote:
I guess we didn't think anybody would think and post this stupidly about the Giants on their own.
Nice spin
You went from me always defending the front office to “giving me an out”
Try again dipshit and learn how to use the reply button
You have a problem with me expressing my opinion….feel free to ignore me as opposed to attacking me for having a burner account
Quote:
I may be wrong, but I take Sy's comments to mean that "game manager" is an elite trait.
Let's assume that.
So how the hell do you predict that based on college performance?
I think that's impossible...
How does he break down film. How does he identify things like a C4 look that is really a closed middle. Can he ID a defenders leverage as a tell that he's going to move...things like that.
He needs the requisite tools, to be sure. But tools aren't useful if the guy cannot use them.
Quote:
22nd in interception percentage. In 2020 he was 18th. Then they reined him in in 2021 and 2022.
For three of his five seasons he’s had an interception problem.
Interceptions are a problem, but not throwing TD passes is even worse. Considerably.
I know I am preaching to the converted, but that's the issue with Jones...
INTs and TDs are mathematically connected. If you can't throw TDs without a precipitous rise in INTs, you have an interception problem. This is why Jones is afraid to be aggressive. He can't keep the ball out of harms way when he throws the ball downfield.
It *should* be (painfully) obvious to everyone. However, we know that Jones still has his supporters. Unfortunately, one of them (at least as of last season) was John Mara. If Mara hasn't gotten it through his thick skull that Jones is not the answer, we may be in for two more years of hopelessness.
Quote:
And I hope the front office has too. Add in the fact that he is using up so much of our cap space and it's truly insult to injury. The only way to get this franchise back on track and build out the roster is by getting a good young qb, drafting well, ridding ourselves of DJ and enjoying the extra cap space of a rookie qb contract. I feel like this is obvious.
It *should* be (painfully) obvious to everyone. However, we know that Jones still has his supporters. Unfortunately, one of them (at least as of last season) was John Mara. If Mara hasn't gotten it through his thick skull that Jones is not the answer, we may be in for two more years of hopelessness.
It's up to Schoen to have the balls and brawn to tell Mara we really like this kid as a prospect and we are taking him. I have faith. I think Schoen personally attended games of each of the top 4 QBs in the draft.
So true!!