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| Art Stapleton @art_stapleton The easy thing is to just keep people on the hot seat, keep firing them when they don’t win and it’s a vicious cycle that has engulfed this entire franchise going on 13 years and counting. Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll don’t belong on the hot seat right now. Yes, there’s pressure to succeed and make smart decisions this year. They are accountable and on the clock. But barring a total disaster, this should not be a make or break season. Let it play out, see where they are and assess at the end of 2024. The perception is what it is, but I’m not falling for the banana in the tail pipe. |
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| Art Stapleton @art_stapleton Giants have poisoned their own fan base and parts of their organization with all the bad decisions and losing that they’ve done for a decade. It’s such a warped sense of reality that in two years, one year that was praised, unbelievably across the league. Two years ago, the Giants hired one of the best candidates on the market for both their GM and head coaching jobs. Sooner or later, they’re going to have to let talented people work through mistakes, shortcomings, and overall incompetence that lingers from previous failed regimes. Get off the carousel, wake up and have some patience to see if they’re going to fail because of who they are, if they’re going to succeed because who they are and not because of what came before them. |
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Art Stapleton @art_stapleton The meddling stuff is folly. Fans want Mara to meddle when he doesn't, and if he doesn't, he gets ripped for not stepping in and meddling. He's the owner. He stays out of the way, but he's involved. He's not an ivory tower guy. Fans have seen him waiting in parking garages for his car at Town Hall. He flies commercial. As with any owner, there are good decisions and bad decisions, and Mara owns all of them - he signs off on it all, either verbally or just allowing it to happen. After Jerry Reese, Mara wanted a GM to be the voice for the football ops. Reese was not that guy. Thought he had that with Gettleman, and obviously we saw how that turned out. There's a reason why Mara has stepped into the background: he wants the GM to be the face. That's Joe Schoen. Mara will talk on league matters and give an occasional State of the Giants, but those are more rare because he would rather Schoen be that representative for the organization. |
It's okay to take some risks and be wrong every now and then. But what has gone on for the past decade is well beyond that.
They make senseless decisions. Perfect examples: Kept dragging out Eli too long, made Solder the highest paid OL, RB overall #2 pick, panicked with Jones pick, Tate and Golladay signings and drafting Toney, continuing a myriad of errors with the OL, above market deal for Jones to name just a few.
Just stop screwing up with the Unforced Errors for crying out loud. Consistent winning in the NFL isn't easy but these front office decisions make it near impossible.
Realistically it takes 4 years or so to completely overhaul a playing roster, particularly if you largely build through the draft. On top of that the draft is an inexact science, it is a crap shoot with educated guesses.
I think Schoen and Daboll are generally on the right track. Sure some things have gone awry at times and limited depth of talent on the roster left a very low margin of error. I really like the collaborative approach and I am sure Schoen and Daboll wil learn from what has happened to date and adjust.
There are a lot of arm-chair GMs saying the Giants must do X or must not do y, otherwise there needs to be firings etc.
We need to be patient and let things unfold, Schoen and Daboll have plans, lets see things play out.
I actually think the facts are simple. We made a horrible decision in hiring Gettleman. I felt this was obvious very early on (for me it was the "lets get rid of all the talent I did not draft" for late round picks.) And the longer it went the worse it got. All the rest of the problems flow from that one stupid decision.
This. Art can try to calm everyone down but it isn't going to work. This team has basically been the laughing stock of the NFL with like 2 seasons of sprinkled in success. Giving Jones the contract they did was not smart. Franchising Barkley was not smart. How is this roster better than the one Schoen inherited? An argument can be made either way there. The OL is still a mess. This is a pivotal year for Schoen. Call it what you want but he has a lot to prove. I never agree with publicly or privately telling a GM that he needs to win or else. All that does is lead to irrational moves like trading away future draft picks or destroying the cap in a last resort type of move. Let the GM manage but that doesn't mean he isn't on the hot seat if he doesn't perform. We all know what the NFL stands for in this sport. This team needs to play better. It is that simple. If not, everyone should be concerned about their job security.
The fans didn't fire the last 3 coaches after two years each.
The fans didn't fire the last 3 coaches after two years each.
Exactly. Which is my biggest fear in how this off-season is approached.
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This is a big offseason for Joe. He needs to deliver.
This. Art can try to calm everyone down but it isn't going to work. This team has basically been the laughing stock of the NFL with like 2 seasons of sprinkled in success. Giving Jones the contract they did was not smart. Franchising Barkley was not smart. How is this roster better than the one Schoen inherited? An argument can be made either way there. The OL is still a mess. This is a pivotal year for Schoen. Call it what you want but he has a lot to prove. I never agree with publicly or privately telling a GM that he needs to win or else. All that does is lead to irrational moves like trading away future draft picks or destroying the cap in a last resort type of move. Let the GM manage but that doesn't mean he isn't on the hot seat if he doesn't perform. We all know what the NFL stands for in this sport. This team needs to play better. It is that simple. If not, everyone should be concerned about their job security.
You keep on changing GMs and HCs you will stay in the toilet just like Cleveland did for decades.
The story he hasn't had resources to build up the team is fundamentally untrue.
He walked into a situation with two lottery picks, in addition to the full arsenal of draft picks both years. He's also expended cash resources to:
- Extend Thomas
- Extend Lawrence
- Sign Jones
- Sign Glowinksi
- Sign Okereke
- Acquire and restructure Waller
- Franchise Barkley
If he screwed up with Jones, Neal, Glowinksi, Waller, and Barkley -- he did that on his own.
The story he hasn't had resources to build up the team is fundamentally untrue.
He walked into a situation with two lottery picks, in addition to the full arsenal of draft picks both years. He's also expended cash resources to:
- Extend Thomas
- Extend Lawrence
- Sign Jones
- Sign Glowinksi
- Sign Okereke
- Acquire and restructure Waller
- Franchise Barkley
If he screwed up with Jones, Neal, Glowinksi, Waller, and Barkley -- he did that on his own.
He had two lottery picks in a year with no lottery QB's. Shit luck, but those returns have been underwhelming.
The Schoen tenure will be determined by whether he gets a QB. He finally has a chance this draft which is why I strongly believe he won't be passive in trying to acquire one at the top. He hasn't had the opportunity yet.
They better draft real real well and get that new QB ASAP, ie pronto.
It's why it's logical Schoen will be aggressive for a QB in April.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
+1
In general, the fan base is now in absolute immediate gratification mode.
I’m “hoping” that John doesn’t buy into this. If he feels he hired the right people, he needs to turn a deaf ear to the fans and let them work at it.
This is NOT a 1 or 2 year fix. The idea is to be competitive LONG term, not just a random season.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
They miss playoffs in 2024, and especially with no QB room improved, they will be shown the door if they miss playoffs in 2025. They are quite possibly going to be victims of their own success in 2022 and irrational luck and misfortuned assumptions for 2023. This is an enormous pivot off-season they must nail in a big way starting with QB.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
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of people on this thread are missing Art's point.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
They miss playoffs in 2024, and especially with no QB room improved, they will be shown the door if they miss playoffs in 2025. They are quite possibly going to be victims of their own success in 2022 and irrational luck and misfortuned assumptions for 2023. This is an enormous pivot off-season they must nail in a big way starting with QB.
No they don't need to "nail" the QB. We would like them to do so. Not sure what they are thinking as far as QB. But a functional QB with just above Tyrod's skill level would make them competitive if the oline improves.
I doubt they make the playoffs this year without some luck and lots of health.
In other words, I am not expecting much this year except improving the roster.
If they run Jones out there again without a viable replacement on the roster, and we get a repeat of last year, impatient Mara is going to be brewing in that suite.
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In comment 16402126 Eric from BBI said:
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of people on this thread are missing Art's point.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
They miss playoffs in 2024, and especially with no QB room improved, they will be shown the door if they miss playoffs in 2025. They are quite possibly going to be victims of their own success in 2022 and irrational luck and misfortuned assumptions for 2023. This is an enormous pivot off-season they must nail in a big way starting with QB.
No they don't need to "nail" the QB. We would like them to do so. Not sure what they are thinking as far as QB. But a functional QB with just above Tyrod's skill level would make them competitive if the oline improves.
I doubt they make the playoffs this year without some luck and lots of health.
In other words, I am not expecting much this year except improving the roster.
They have to get an exciting young QB in here. They won’t get a shot or leash of 3 more years to do it. It’s now.
This is exactly what I’ve been posting. If Schoen doesn’t get a QB this year, he’s probably fucked. And so are we as fans because we’ll be stuck with jones through 2025.
The Dodgers had two managers until I was 44 years old. Changing the coach every two years guarantees disaster, and disaster is what the Maras have given us.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
Again - I’ve been saying this exact thing for about 2 months for anything willing to listen but you have to remember that this is BBI and not reality.
In general, the fan base is now in absolute immediate gratification mode.
I’m “hoping” that John doesn’t buy into this. If he feels he hired the right people, he needs to turn a deaf ear to the fans and let them work at it.
This is NOT a 1 or 2 year fix. The idea is to be competitive LONG term, not just a random season.
They got immediate results in 2022.
The bloom is off the rose. Schoen needs to have a great off-season and Daboll needs to be competitive every game and win the majority of them.
If they run Jones out there again without a viable replacement on the roster, and we get a repeat of last year, impatient Mara is going to be brewing in that suite.
Not if they tell him that they have reservations about Jones being a viable QB because of "injuries"..
Besides Mara isn't stupid, he may be thick and stubborn, but not stupid. Also, Steve Tisch put his foot down with Judge, he may tell Mara to be patient with the team.
But what do I know....
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of people on this thread are missing Art's point.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
Again - I’ve been saying this exact thing for about 2 months for anything willing to listen but you have to remember that this is BBI and not reality.
Irony never fails to evade you
A season is a really long time in the NFL. I wouldn't discount any possibility in terms of job security.
If they run it back with Jones, with no upgrade waiting in the wings, and they get a repeat of last season -- so they deserve to be back?
If they run it back with Jones, with no upgrade waiting in the wings, and they get a repeat of last season -- so they deserve to be back?
Please cite my 7:26pm ET post next time, thank you.
& while I hate to bring it up, but it all circles back to the QB position. Joe & Dabs would be insane to hitch their wagon going forward to the $40 Million Dollar Fraud. The sooner they realize that, the better for them & the organization.
You want the Giants to trade a Kings ransom for a higher draft pick which A) you have absolutely no idea what that trade would look like and B) have absolutely no idea how Schoen and Daboll view the current QB situation.
You wanted the Giants to somehow make the playoffs this year with a second and third string QB playing most of the season and a decimated and terrible OL for the first quarter of the year.
You blame pretty much everything on the quarterback that was one of the few people responsible for actually delivering the Giants a playoff win for the first time in 10 years. Instead of looking at deeper problems, you blame 1 person.
You also blame the GM and head coach (both who were already more successful than Tom Coughlin was in his first 2 seasons with the team) for giving the quarterback what amounts to a 2 year deal, with baggage on that 3rd year, after he played good football for the first season with the team, had a working OL and shitty receivers and still played good ball for us.
And to cap it off, because you are so displeased with the previous 10 years, you just think well the Giants suck, Mara sucks, everyone is an idiot except for you.
This entire thing is just such garbage tired bullshit at this point.
The fans didn't fire the last 3 coaches after two years each.
What “data” are you talking about?
If the Giants make the Davis Webb investment at QB, and Jones gets his doors blown off again, I doubt even our patron saint of patience will be defending Daboll.
A season is a really long time in the NFL. I wouldn't discount any possibility in terms of job security.
Yep, I like Art but he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth. Reassess at the end of this year means this year’s results matter. Why wouldn’t they? Okereke and Banks were nice additions - but your first round pick and biggest FA signings better be nice additions. We need more than just the bare minimum now.
Quote:
of people on this thread are missing Art's point.
Schoen and Daboll had nothing to do with the 10 years of lousy football from 2012-2021.
They are responsible for TWO seasons. One playoff season and one 6-11 season.
That's it.
Those lumping in the new regime with those before it are not thinking straight.
They miss playoffs in 2024, and especially with no QB room improved, they will be shown the door if they miss playoffs in 2025. They are quite possibly going to be victims of their own success in 2022 and irrational luck and misfortuned assumptions for 2023. This is an enormous pivot off-season they must nail in a big way starting with QB.
Agreed. And I've already said the same many times.
But I've also said for years (pre-Schoen/Daboll) that Giants fans keep lumping together past regimes.
When you start over, you start over.
This part keeps getting lost on many Giants fans.
If they fire Schoen and Daboll next offseason, it's back to square one. Nothing that happened in 2012-2024 counts.