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| Art Stapleton @art_stapleton The easy thing is to just keep people on the hot seat, keep firing them when they don’t win and it’s a vicious cycle that has engulfed this entire franchise going on 13 years and counting. Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll don’t belong on the hot seat right now. Yes, there’s pressure to succeed and make smart decisions this year. They are accountable and on the clock. But barring a total disaster, this should not be a make or break season. Let it play out, see where they are and assess at the end of 2024. The perception is what it is, but I’m not falling for the banana in the tail pipe. |
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| Art Stapleton @art_stapleton Giants have poisoned their own fan base and parts of their organization with all the bad decisions and losing that they’ve done for a decade. It’s such a warped sense of reality that in two years, one year that was praised, unbelievably across the league. Two years ago, the Giants hired one of the best candidates on the market for both their GM and head coaching jobs. Sooner or later, they’re going to have to let talented people work through mistakes, shortcomings, and overall incompetence that lingers from previous failed regimes. Get off the carousel, wake up and have some patience to see if they’re going to fail because of who they are, if they’re going to succeed because who they are and not because of what came before them. |
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Art Stapleton @art_stapleton The meddling stuff is folly. Fans want Mara to meddle when he doesn't, and if he doesn't, he gets ripped for not stepping in and meddling. He's the owner. He stays out of the way, but he's involved. He's not an ivory tower guy. Fans have seen him waiting in parking garages for his car at Town Hall. He flies commercial. As with any owner, there are good decisions and bad decisions, and Mara owns all of them - he signs off on it all, either verbally or just allowing it to happen. After Jerry Reese, Mara wanted a GM to be the voice for the football ops. Reese was not that guy. Thought he had that with Gettleman, and obviously we saw how that turned out. There's a reason why Mara has stepped into the background: he wants the GM to be the face. That's Joe Schoen. Mara will talk on league matters and give an occasional State of the Giants, but those are more rare because he would rather Schoen be that representative for the organization. |
Where did I say I wanted them to make the NFC Championship game? I conceded that they were probably going to lose the Eagles game after they beat Minnesota. Another made up Ryan fantasy.
And neither do you. Yes I’d prefer the Giants trade up for QB if the situation allows it. I’ve also said there’s a pretty realistic chance Maye will be there at 6 and I would be fine with McCarthy at 6. Another lie from you.
Another lie. I said they’d regress. I didn’t think it would be embarrassing though.
One of the few people. Always the hero, never his fault. The deeper problem is this team hasn’t been able to properly evaluate the quarterback position since 2018. The way you hang on to the wild card win in a fluke season is embarrassing.
Who else’s fault would it be? They could have paid him half the contract they did, because there was no market for him. They fucked up and have to fix it.
This entire thing is just such garbage tired bullshit at this point.
The Giants do suck, and you’re the only one who I think is an idiot. And again, irony continues to evade you. Please buy a mirror.
If they run it back with Jones, with no upgrade waiting in the wings, and they get a repeat of last season -- so they deserve to be back?
Because there wasn't a QB left worth drafting with the #6 pick?
Do not chase a bad QB with another bad QB at the #6 pick, again.
Does anyone believe McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge just needed more time?
Gettleman received too much time
If Schoen/Daboll cant show any progress in Y3 and resemble the mess they put out this season and it was mess - outscored 153-62 in the first 6 weeks. Then they will deserve to go as well
The Giants stick with people too long
That game-to the DJFC-is the greatest QB performance of all time. It is so sad.
And Thats exactly what they did this year. And it blew up all over
They need to decide this offseason if they will finally turn the page
If they run it back with Jones, with no upgrade waiting in the wings, and they get a repeat of last season -- so they deserve to be back?
Because there wasn't a QB left worth drafting with the #6 pick?
Do not chase a bad QB with another bad QB at the #6 pick, again.
Scenarios I can imagine:
- Sign an UFA like Minshew
- Trade up or pick number 6
- Trade down in round one
- Trade up from round two into round one
- Use one of their round two picks
They have plenty of ammo and opportunity to create viable competition at the quarterback position.
If they hang their hat on Jones, and they are wrong, they're gone.
Should we just look the other way at that huge accident on the Turnpike?? JFC.
And just wait if Schoen doubles-down on Jones by not grabbing a QB on day one or day two and/or in the free agency window.
Love the effort here to protect Teflon Joe.
At least give Daboll credit for having to coach the crummy team Schoen puts together...
That game-to the DJFC-is the greatest QB performance of all time. It is so sad.
It’s pathetic. One average season if you’re being generous cancels all the shit we’ve seen for 5 years. And that average season they finished 3-6-1 beating zero good teams in the process. I’m sick of hearing about the fluke season that started 6-1 because the league wasn’t caught up to Daboll/Kafka like it’s supposed to cancel everything else out, and then be accused of posting bullshit for being realistic about what the Giants are and have been.
So, in that sense I don't think this regime is on the hot seat, but I do think they need to be competing by 2025 seriously. It's hard to imagine that path without picking the QB this year.
I couldn't help but get the sense that Art received a call today from 1925 Giants Way asking for a favor...
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Takes the job with the benefit of hindsight. Meddling owner, front office filled with family members whose biggest qualification is winning the genetic lottery and being born into an NFL family
The Dodgers had two managers until I was 44 years old. Changing the coach every two years guarantees disaster, and disaster is what the Maras have given us.
They got "immediate results" for about 8 or games. They were under .500 for the rest of the season and have been under .500 ever since. This is McAdoo redux.
Judas Priest, stop making excuses, rallying around the flag every time the slightest criticism is uttered and start raising your expectations for players, coaches and GM's. Stop thinking average and below average is great. Average and below average is average and below average. Quit listening to the fat-headed owner and his "we're back" baloney followed by the usual bungling in evaluation and free agency.
Should we just look the other way at that huge accident on the Turnpike?? JFC.
And just wait if Schoen doubles-down on Jones by not grabbing a QB on day one or day two and/or in the free agency window.
Love the effort here to protect Teflon Joe.
At least give Daboll credit for having to coach the crummy team Schoen puts together...
Rinse and repeat. Keep getting rid of GMs and HCs like they grow on trees. Never get stability. Never get the team going in one direction just continue knee jerk reactions.
I don't disagree on Jones, but I am hoping they don't grab a round 1 QB just to grab one unless it fits what they plan on doing..I don't think for a minute that they will be reckless.
Rinse and repeat. Keep getting rid of GMs and HCs like they grow on trees. Never get stability. Never get the team going in one direction just continue knee jerk reactions.
I don't disagree on Jones, but I am hoping they don't grab a round 1 QB just to grab one unless it fits what they plan on doing..I don't think for a minute that they will be reckless.
I believe one of the major requirements for an NFL GM is to solve the QB position. Because if you don't do that, the rest really doesn't matter much...
How much time do you want to give Schoen? Six years? ;)
Does anyone believe McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge just needed more time?
Gettleman received too much time
If Schoen/Daboll cant show any progress in Y3 and resemble the mess they put out this season and it was mess - outscored 153-62 in the first 6 weeks. Then they will deserve to go as well
The Giants stick with people too long
It’s just the reality of the NFL though, you don’t get 5 years to prove it as a coach and GM - especially not after making what was a giant miscalculation in the Jones contract.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=632859
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=632842
The overwhelming opinion on the Jones contract last year was that it was a good deal by Schoen who hedged his bet. And this includes some of the biggest Jones critics too.
Knowing what we know after 2023, it was a bad contract by Schoen. It's just odd to me how so many think Schoen won't draft a QB because of the Jones contract now a year later.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=632859
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=632842
The overwhelming opinion on the Jones contract last year was that it was a good deal by Schoen who hedged his bet. And this includes some of the biggest Jones critics too.
Knowing what we know after 2023, it was a bad contract by Schoen. It's just odd to me how so many think Schoen won't draft a QB because of the Jones contract now a year later.
Don't we want someone in charge smarter than the overwhelming number of BBIers?
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It was his call to attach make a big re-investment in Jones.
Should we just look the other way at that huge accident on the Turnpike?? JFC.
And just wait if Schoen doubles-down on Jones by not grabbing a QB on day one or day two and/or in the free agency window.
Love the effort here to protect Teflon Joe.
At least give Daboll credit for having to coach the crummy team Schoen puts together...
Rinse and repeat. Keep getting rid of GMs and HCs like they grow on trees. Never get stability. Never get the team going in one direction just continue knee jerk reactions.
I don't disagree on Jones, but I am hoping they don't grab a round 1 QB just to grab one unless it fits what they plan on doing..I don't think for a minute that they will be reckless.
Not impressed with Daboll or Schoen. They had a chance to build and instead they walked around like they were geniuses and faceplanted. Did they learn anything? I hope so. If not, NFL will mean "Not for Long" where they are concerned.
As of right now I don’t really know what Daboll and Schoen want to do and how they are going to consistently challenge in division and get roster that is on the better half/side of the league, nevermind a true SB contender. I don’t see the strong decisions and gaming theory in play.
This is such a huge offseason for them. Can’t be understated.
LOL. I'd add, Vegas knew this too, our O/U going into the year was 7.5 IIRC. The world outside of NYG fandom saw the obvious.
This is why I sort of disagree with Art's characterization of this being different. Yeah, the names are, but the issues remain the same.
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Probably should be you. You were all over this from the beginning.
LOL. I'd add, Vegas knew this too, our O/U going into the year was 7.5 IIRC. The world outside of NYG fandom saw the obvious.
This is why I sort of disagree with Art's characterization of this being different. Yeah, the names are, but the issues remain the same.
It’s why saying you have to separate the previous regimes from the current doesn’t track in my opinion. They still are making the same mistakes, the two biggest being:
1) they can’t properly evaluate the QB position
2) they continue to swap out names on the oline with similar results
It's so frustrating.
Plenty of posters all of a sudden changed their mind and said oh actually Daniel Jones sucks.
It's so frustrating.
Yup. See, Sterling Sheppard.
Nobody has said they aren’t though.
We agreed there.
He always sucked. What changed was the level of denial.
I said they aren’t an improvement? Where?
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right now.
I said they aren’t an improvement? Where?
Well, Brett says he disagrees with Art's characterization that things are different. Says the names are different, but the issues are the same.
Then you jump in in agreement saying it’s why you don't agree with separating out this from the previous regimes, adding they still are making the same mistakes.
So yes, every point here is that they're the same.
But it’s factual that they’ve made some of the same mistakes that their predecessors have made. Like Reese and Gettleman they so far have misevaluated the QB position. Like Reese and Gettleman, they’ve so far failed at addressing the oline, they did draft Neal. That’s not saying they aren’t an improvement, they could very well be better at their jobs but not end up being good enough to be the long term answer here. We’ll have to see what unfolds over the next 12-24 months.
They’re an improvement over Gettleman, but they still have mistakes they need to correct and have a lot to prove if they want to be a long term answer.
Do you still want to pat Dave on the back?
Or you’re just twisting a post for it to say what you want it to say. I’ve laid out pretty clearly that I like Schoen and Daboll.
How can I like Schoen and Daboll and think they’re the same as Gettleman and Judge?
Multiple things are allowed to be true at the same time. I like them and they’re an improvement and they’ve still made some of the same mistakes the previous regime has made. We’ll see if they can fix those mistakes over the next 12 months.
You can’t bring yourself to say “Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are an upgrade over the past 2 coaches/GM regime.”
You can’t bring yourself to say “Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are an upgrade over the past 2 coaches/GM regime.”
Can you not read? I literally said it. Imbecile.
It does not come close to suggesting Schoen and Gettleman are the same in any capacity. Dave Gettleman was a unique plague on this franchise.
I liked Reese/Coughlin, and they had the same issues toward the end.
To be clear, I'm not one of the 'Mara is the boogieman' people--I'm not suggesting I know the issue--but it's been a decade plus of poor self-scouting that stumbled us into repeated bad decisions.
Outside of Jones and Barkley (which I don't care to discuss much), I think Schoen's done a decent job of asset management, something Gettleman totally bungled. Rather than trading for Ogletree and Williams, Schoen dumps Toney and Williams for nice hauls. Gettleman couldn't see beyond his nose--I don't think Schoen has exhibited a strong strategic mind, but he can at least see the next step.
I can still see the Schoen/Daboll era ending well for us. I never really could for Gettleman.
I can still see the Schoen/Daboll era ending well for us. I never really could for Gettleman.
Agreed. They’ve made mistakes but I still think it could end up well for the Giants if they can figure out the QB position.
If people want to to twist that into something negative, whatever.