getting better and the rest is replacement level fodder. It’s a weak point on the roster but could be turned around with bringing in a few league average starters.
RE: They have pro-bowler, above average young talent
getting better and the rest is replacement level fodder. It’s a weak point on the roster but could be turned around with bringing in a few league average starters.
Bad writing on my part there. Bummer there’s no edit option here.
Meant to start with they have one pro-bowler and one above average young talent.
But I’m puzzled why he didn’t extend Ashawn Robinson during the season given the fact that he played pretty well, we need DL and Robinson’s void year kicked in for 2024. That void year was an opportunity to spread out the cap hit into 2025 while keeping Ashawn on the squad.
he and lawrence stand up to most teams 2 best pieces. needing more shouldnt be a surprise since it's the group they had the most $ planned to expire this offseason between williams + robinson. it's a middle of the pack group with almost exactly average cap% invested in it.
That's a pretty tall order. Three gaping holes (and one meh) out of 5, no real blocking TE to help, and a dearth of talent at QB to set them up and/or make plays to back the D off (especially if DJ's running days are limited). The DL has a bit of talent behind them to help out.
Still, a case can be made that DL is up there in terms of need.
That's a pretty tall order. Three gaping holes (and one meh) out of 5, no real blocking TE to help, and a dearth of talent at QB to set them up and/or make plays to back the D off (especially if DJ's running days are limited). The DL has a bit of talent behind them to help out.
Still, a case can be made that DL is up there in terms of need.
i think both lines of scrimmage are obvious areas that have needed investment since picking neal/thibs top 10, and still need continued investment. they've generally put resources into both but the results have been mixed. actually on the OL the results havent been mixed, they've only been bad.
Now, we could certainly use more talent/depth, especially at end/edge/nose. But college does a good job of producing DTs. So, if Schoen and his staff are on top of it, I think they should be able to find capable DL players.
But OL is a bigger problem as a unit. Significantly more.
But yes they need more talent. Nacho is a backup. They may want to re-sign A'Shawn, but who knows how much he will command.
I do think it is easier to find DT/DEs than most positions. Would not be surprised if the draft a DT/DE in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Forgoing saqoun and resigning LW for 15 mill aav? (Is that possible?)
Dex played his best when LW commanding double teams - helps Thibs out also
i think they are more likely to spend mid-range dollars on DL for depth. i think that's the better ROI if they do it right because top DL are so expensive. if LW ends up unexpectedly affordable like calais campbell at the end of his career then maybe but i sort of doubt that happens.
Forgoing saqoun and resigning LW for 15 mill aav? (Is that possible?)
Dex played his best when LW commanding double teams - helps Thibs out also
I like LW, but they need to go inexpensive somewhere. I am fine with Saquon leaving if he gets a good offer elsewhere. I'd prefer they spend FA money on a high end guard and a experienced vet OG.
But I’m puzzled why he didn’t extend Ashawn Robinson during the season given the fact that he played pretty well, we need DL and Robinson’s void year kicked in for 2024. That void year was an opportunity to spread out the cap hit into 2025 while keeping Ashawn on the squad.
I think this is on the table and definitely not an error by Schoen. With defensive coordinator in the air re-signing any defensive players until they got that taken care of wouldn't have made sense. The void year has nothing to do with anything, it was happening one way or another.
In terms of guys on the roster as of now, my guess is the starters are Davidson, Lawrence, Anderson?
No Nacho?
Yes nacho is back
The hope is that Riley and DJ keep progressing.
One draft pick and 1 FA signing is needed
No argument. But as of now, Nacho is probably the second best DL on the team. It’s moot to pick three starters right now anyway as the roster is nowhere near complete.
he and lawrence stand up to most teams 2 best pieces. needing more shouldnt be a surprise since it's the group they had the most $ planned to expire this offseason between williams + robinson. it's a middle of the pack group with almost exactly average cap% invested in it.
The middle of the Giants defense got gashed for huge runs and Thibodeaux was invisible in more than half of the games the Giants played, they need to beef up the middle of the defense and get a pass rusher.
"This is a minor nit with Schoen perhaps
cosmicj : 12:36 pm : link : reply
But I’m puzzled why he didn’t extend Ashawn Robinson during the season given the fact that he played pretty well, we need DL and Robinson’s void year kicked in for 2024. That void year was an opportunity to spread out the cap hit into 2025 while keeping Ashawn on the squad."
As discussed on another thread...you can use book keeping gimmicks to push the money down the road on the new contract. The old money from the voids gets accelerated, but new money can get delayed. End result is the same.
Maybe they did try to extend him, but couldn't come to terms.
I'm referring to every down lineman, not edge rushers or outside linebackers.
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
Thought you were including ER. I suspect the Giants will draft a DE/DT type in the 2nd/3rd round and perhaps resign ARob if his market is not overpriced.
I liked what I saw from Davidson prior to getting cheap-shotted and
and with Patterson as their position coach, they should continue to ascend. That said I think Dex needs another solid DT lined up next to him. Would the Giants draft another DT on day 2?
They need legit DEs and need to commit to an actual defensive scheme that fields an actual DL. The 2 man line that we had been running for 2 years was shit against the run and got little pressure on it's own outside of a completely dominant Dexter. Any D that is relying on your NT for pressure is ill schemed.
I'm referring to every down lineman, not edge rushers or outside linebackers.
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
presumably they are planning to replace some of the $25m worth of down lineman they rostered last year and weren't under contract this year.
every team turns over their roster by about half every offseason. a lot of position groups look incomplete in february before free agency and draft. the secondary that is returning just banks/pinnock as starters looks more in need than the DL, and the OL is obviously the biggest problem group on the team. there is a lot of work to do this offseason.
I think they have a great nose tackle in Lawrence, and an adequate backup to him in Nacho. Otherwise, I think it's the dregs.
who knows what riley/davidson are at this point? space eaters as a genre are developed by smart organizations. kc developed nnadi and danna next to chris jones and mike pennel was making plays all over the super bowl, he's played for 6 teams and almost never for more than a year. the ravens 3 down lineman were developed from 3rd round picks or later (pierce was undrafted).
nobody is easily finding a 2nd dexter lawrence but adding some competent veterans affordably (like they did with robinson), drafting someone with some upside (ideally day 2), and adding a few more depth bodies (like pennel) while developing recent draft picks already in the building is generally the type of expected turnover that happens with large position groups most years. good teams do it successfully bad teams dont.
I'm pretty bullish on the young players in the secondary. I was glad to see Flott get some burn down the stretch. He got a little picked on in that first Eagles game, but otherwise I thought he showed flashes.
In a perfect world Flott/Banks/Hawkins/Pennick/Belton can start and provide a really cost effective and young secondary.
That's a little digression, but I hope the Giants invest more in the front 7, and can get on with the core secondary players on the roster.
I'm a little more bullish on Ojulari than most. I like his skillset, hate the durability. Where I hope they really improve is the edge setter, because this shit with Ward and Basham was hard to watch.
not as dire as the OL, D-line is a need. Leo's presence as both a run defender & pass rusher needs to be replaced. Right now all we have is Dex and a bunch of dudes. That won't cut it. Despite having young guys we still need talent up front. I'm hoping for a combo of a vet minimum to 2nd tier signing and a draft pick
not as dire as the OL, D-line is a need. Leo's presence as both a run defender & pass rusher needs to be replaced. Right now all we have is Dex and a bunch of dudes. That won't cut it. Despite having young guys we still need talent up front. I'm hoping for a combo of a vet minimum to 2nd tier signing and a draft pick
Make me think of moneyball
It’s highly unlikely we are going to draft another Leo in April
But maybe we can find a good pass rushing DL or another good ER to help do what he did
With Bowen's defense which is bend-but-don't-break,
I think that signing/drafting an 3-tech interior pass-rusher is going to be on the docket, particularly since he had Jeffrey Simmons playing that spot. Chris Jones and Justin Madubuike, to name a couple players would probably be pipe dreams free-agency wise, but there's quite a few Day 1-2 picks like Byron Murphy II, Leonard Taylor III, and Ruke Orhorhoro and Braden Fiske on Day 3 that should garner some interest.
Then he faded, but started to come on strong toward the end of the season.
He's a very big and strong man. What I really like about him is that he is very agile (even though they have him playing at the Nose). I think he can be a very good 3-4 defensive end. That would be great, if he can fill the void left by Leo Williams leaving.
I'm a little more bullish on Ojulari than most. I like his skillset, hate the durability. Where I hope they really improve is the edge setter, because this shit with Ward and Basham was hard to watch.
Watching Ward and Basham move was like watching a Mastodon stuck in the La Brea tar pits.
Actually Ojulari looked slower last year then in previous seasons.
I've posted this to great controversy a number of times, but it's a shame the league is littered with pretty good or better ex-Giant defensive lineman.
Bad writing on my part there. Bummer there’s no edit option here.
Meant to start with they have one pro-bowler and one above average young talent.
I imagine Robinson wanted to hit UFA. He's going to command a pretty decent deal.
Still, a case can be made that DL is up there in terms of need.
Still, a case can be made that DL is up there in terms of need.
i think both lines of scrimmage are obvious areas that have needed investment since picking neal/thibs top 10, and still need continued investment. they've generally put resources into both but the results have been mixed. actually on the OL the results havent been mixed, they've only been bad.
No Nacho?
Is this your way of bringing back LW? ;)
Now, we could certainly use more talent/depth, especially at end/edge/nose. But college does a good job of producing DTs. So, if Schoen and his staff are on top of it, I think they should be able to find capable DL players.
But OL is a bigger problem as a unit. Significantly more.
But yes they need more talent. Nacho is a backup. They may want to re-sign A'Shawn, but who knows how much he will command.
I do think it is easier to find DT/DEs than most positions. Would not be surprised if the draft a DT/DE in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Dex played his best when LW commanding double teams - helps Thibs out also
Dex played his best when LW commanding double teams - helps Thibs out also
i think they are more likely to spend mid-range dollars on DL for depth. i think that's the better ROI if they do it right because top DL are so expensive. if LW ends up unexpectedly affordable like calais campbell at the end of his career then maybe but i sort of doubt that happens.
Dex played his best when LW commanding double teams - helps Thibs out also
I like LW, but they need to go inexpensive somewhere. I am fine with Saquon leaving if he gets a good offer elsewhere. I'd prefer they spend FA money on a high end guard and a experienced vet OG.
I think this is on the table and definitely not an error by Schoen. With defensive coordinator in the air re-signing any defensive players until they got that taken care of wouldn't have made sense. The void year has nothing to do with anything, it was happening one way or another.
Quote:
In terms of guys on the roster as of now, my guess is the starters are Davidson, Lawrence, Anderson?
No Nacho?
Yes nacho is back
The hope is that Riley and DJ keep progressing.
One draft pick and 1 FA signing is needed
Draft a speed edge player in mid rounds along with a 5 Tech.
Quote:
In comment 16402629 christian said:
Quote:
In terms of guys on the roster as of now, my guess is the starters are Davidson, Lawrence, Anderson?
No Nacho?
Yes nacho is back
The hope is that Riley and DJ keep progressing.
One draft pick and 1 FA signing is needed
No argument. But as of now, Nacho is probably the second best DL on the team. It’s moot to pick three starters right now anyway as the roster is nowhere near complete.
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
cosmicj : 12:36 pm : link : reply
But I’m puzzled why he didn’t extend Ashawn Robinson during the season given the fact that he played pretty well, we need DL and Robinson’s void year kicked in for 2024. That void year was an opportunity to spread out the cap hit into 2025 while keeping Ashawn on the squad."
As discussed on another thread...you can use book keeping gimmicks to push the money down the road on the new contract. The old money from the voids gets accelerated, but new money can get delayed. End result is the same.
Maybe they did try to extend him, but couldn't come to terms.
Draft a speed edge player in mid rounds along with a 5 Tech.
+1
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
Thought you were including ER. I suspect the Giants will draft a DE/DT type in the 2nd/3rd round and perhaps resign ARob if his market is not overpriced.
I won't be surprised to see the Giants use a day two pick on a lineman and sign a starting caliber free agent.
My guess is the two areas they spend in UFA are IOL and IDL.
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
presumably they are planning to replace some of the $25m worth of down lineman they rostered last year and weren't under contract this year.
every team turns over their roster by about half every offseason. a lot of position groups look incomplete in february before free agency and draft. the secondary that is returning just banks/pinnock as starters looks more in need than the DL, and the OL is obviously the biggest problem group on the team. there is a lot of work to do this offseason.
I won't be surprised to see the Giants use a day two pick on a lineman and sign a starting caliber free agent.
My guess is the two areas they spend in UFA are IOL and IDL.
I agree
Guard and DL are two areas of need and positions where you can get a starter without spending outrageous money
who knows what riley/davidson are at this point? space eaters as a genre are developed by smart organizations. kc developed nnadi and danna next to chris jones and mike pennel was making plays all over the super bowl, he's played for 6 teams and almost never for more than a year. the ravens 3 down lineman were developed from 3rd round picks or later (pierce was undrafted).
nobody is easily finding a 2nd dexter lawrence but adding some competent veterans affordably (like they did with robinson), drafting someone with some upside (ideally day 2), and adding a few more depth bodies (like pennel) while developing recent draft picks already in the building is generally the type of expected turnover that happens with large position groups most years. good teams do it successfully bad teams dont.
I'm pretty bullish on the young players in the secondary. I was glad to see Flott get some burn down the stretch. He got a little picked on in that first Eagles game, but otherwise I thought he showed flashes.
In a perfect world Flott/Banks/Hawkins/Pennick/Belton can start and provide a really cost effective and young secondary.
That's a little digression, but I hope the Giants invest more in the front 7, and can get on with the core secondary players on the roster.
I'm a little more bullish on Ojulari than most. I like his skillset, hate the durability. Where I hope they really improve is the edge setter, because this shit with Ward and Basham was hard to watch.
Make me think of moneyball
It’s highly unlikely we are going to draft another Leo in April
But maybe we can find a good pass rushing DL or another good ER to help do what he did
The lineman under contract right now for 2024 are:
Dexter Lawrence
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Jordon Riley
D.J. Davidson
Timmy Horne
Ryder Anderson
Are there 2 players you'd be comfortable lining up to the left and right of Lawrence?
This is a team mind you that gave up 132 yards rushing per game last year.
There is no one other than Dex who is a starting caliber player at this point
He's a very big and strong man. What I really like about him is that he is very agile (even though they have him playing at the Nose). I think he can be a very good 3-4 defensive end. That would be great, if he can fill the void left by Leo Williams leaving.
I'm a little more bullish on Ojulari than most. I like his skillset, hate the durability. Where I hope they really improve is the edge setter, because this shit with Ward and Basham was hard to watch.
Watching Ward and Basham move was like watching a Mastodon stuck in the La Brea tar pits.
Actually Ojulari looked slower last year then in previous seasons.