Hello, I've been coming here for several years and just wanted to introduce myself
Life long Giants fan and after reading through all the posts since the season finale, I just wanted to bullet point a couple of things.
This is obviously opinion only, however, after suffering through the past several seasons (same as everyone here), I just want to be heard;
** If anyone watched a single game this year, it's very easy to see the offensive line is just bad.. Tom Brady could be throwing the ball to; Jerry Rice/Randy Moss/Travis Kelce, it just wouldn't matter. The biggest bummer of the year for me was not really being able to see Jalen Hyatt do his thing, we saw small flashes.
**Not saying the team can't use receivers, however, I think the line should be 1st and foremost (I DO NOT WANT TO DRAFT A QUARTERBACK EARLY). I'm not saying Daniel Jones is the answer (because he isn't), however, I would prefer to fix the line 1st, than go out and get a QB, not just draft someone early to let him sit for a year, then watch Daniel Jones get beat up.
***Whether we draft Talise Fuaga with the 1st pick, IMO he's the best lineman in the draft, or if Brock Bowers slides to us (he can block and catch very well), Nothing wrong with; Hyatt/Bryant/Bowers receiving corp? I like this idea better then snapping up a qb and still having to wait yet another year to see him develop (because he will sit)
***There are still plenty of lineman to go for in round 2
**Nabers and Justin Jefferson both went to LSU, thats about it. Nabers is good, however, I don't feel like he compares to Justin Jefferson, it seems like Nabers loses the long ball a little more then he should. I watch 1 or 2 college games a weekend (I'm no expert at all), I have seen Rome Oduze and Malik Nabers play, I would just prefer a Tight End like Bowers if at all possible, he should live up to the hype and kill 2 birds with one stone)
**There's nothing wrong with this defense and yes the Giants should resign "X". Some plug and play, additional pass rush should help
I know this is a bunch of stuff, some will agree and most will probably disagree, I just needed to get this off my chest
And it is a deep, deep draft for OLs.
Welcome aboard.
I respectfully disagree with this, I have never ever seen a offensive line play as poorly as this unit has (whether it be college or professional). I will say they improved slightly as the year went on, also, I do feel there is hope for Evan Neal as a RT, HOWEVER, he needs a really good guard alongside him
I used to always believe that you *had* to get your offense sorted out - oline, skill players, scheme, coaching, *then* get your QB. I don't think that any longer, you can do it in a variety of ways. But this team, right now, I'd do it that way. Get the QB when everything else is reasonably in place.
Just my opinion.
Welcome to BBI and thank you for the post. Enjoyed reading!
No way do you pick a TE 6th. Nabers or Odunze would be fine if they stay pat and don't choose a QB. Fuago the OT is someone that the Jesters are rumored to be n love with. If he gets to 10, he's theirs.
I'm not disagreeing with this sentiment at all, they should do this. I think by doing this and adding a guy like Fuaga (who can play all spots on the line) adds quality and depth all over. Keep in mind, Brock Bowers is also a "kill 2 birds with one stone option". He helps blocking and can catch, he is a true mismatch, I believe he is one of the few Tight Ends who gets ranked very high every year that will actually live up to the hype..If for whatever reason the Giants were to nab bowers, still get a guard in F/A, then O-Line in round 2.
I CAN NOT STAND THE THOUGHT OF OPENING DAY MONDAY NIGHT MASSACRE AGAINST DALLAS. That should never happen again
One way or another, whether it be; coaching, free agency, draft, etc..This line needs to get fixed once and for all, regardless of the resources that have been put into this unit throughout the past several years
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welcome. I think the OL can be upgraded to mediocre more easily than you imply. There’s no reason to hold off on picking a QB because the OL can rapidly improve to bog standard level.
I respectfully disagree with this, I have never ever seen a offensive line play as poorly as this unit has (whether it be college or professional). I will say they improved slightly as the year went on, also, I do feel there is hope for Evan Neal as a RT, HOWEVER, he needs a really good guard alongside him
Agreed. The way people dismiss the absolute awfulness that was our OL play this year, especially the first 6 or 7 games is disturbing.
Either way it is going to be interesting how the brain trust attacks this
Some people undervalue what a terrific QB can do for your team. Also, I don't feel that NFL roster building is a process of "This" then "That". It's more fluid than that. Sure, the rookie QB might struggle behind an OK OL, but he should be able to flash and show why you picked him.
I wouldn't compare what we had at the QB position to what can be, even with the same OL.
Not sure How old you are but that's the Giants. They drive me nuts for years. Now I just won't let them do it anymore. But I get it. Had to do. Took me almost 45 years for thst to be the case. While I have zero issue with dumping Jones the Leone screaming they have to do whatever it takes to get a Qb just seem to forget that's how we got Jones. I have zero faith in NFL teams Qb Eval process.
Welcome
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This team is just driving me nuts!!
Not sure How old you are but that's the Giants. They drive me nuts for years. Now I just won't let them do it anymore. But I get it. Had to do. Took me almost 45 years for thst to be the case. While I have zero issue with dumping Jones the Leone screaming they have to do whatever it takes to get a Qb just seem to forget that's how we got Jones. I have zero faith in NFL teams Qb Eval process.
Welcome
So is your solution to never draft one?
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In comment 16402759 Don from CT said:
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This team is just driving me nuts!!
Not sure How old you are but that's the Giants. They drive me nuts for years. Now I just won't let them do it anymore. But I get it. Had to do. Took me almost 45 years for thst to be the case. While I have zero issue with dumping Jones the Leone screaming they have to do whatever it takes to get a Qb just seem to forget that's how we got Jones. I have zero faith in NFL teams Qb Eval process.
Welcome
So is your solution to never draft one?
I know this wasn't directed to me, however, I don't see anything wrong with drafting a qb, just with the 6th pick I don't see it happening
In order to get one of the top 3 from this spot, I would absolutely hate to move up and give up resources to get the guy they want (unless it's JJ Mccarthy who can probably be had with #6)
This team just needs way too much
Don't fall into the same trap.
Don't fall into the same trap.
You liking any of these QBs JC?
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Falling into the habit of making reactionary decisions, failing to accurately (or honestly) self-scout, drafting for needs in the premium rounds, and failing to accurately consider the bigger picture is what got the Giants into this mess.
Don't fall into the same trap.
You liking any of these QBs JC?
Caleb and Maye, maybe the latter is somehow waiting for NYG at #6.
However, I think QB should be in play if the grade merits it.
BPA over time is the best strategy imv. I prefer a emphasis on the fronts. This was the case when the Giants had Young and then again when TC joined (at least the early years).
Gods honest truth, never saw that until 2 seconds ago
If I did, I would admit it, no need to be dishonest
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Gods honest truth, never saw that until 2 seconds ago
If I did, I would admit it, no need to be dishonest
Also, I don't think DJ is the guy, it's time to move on , just not now
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Gods honest truth, never saw that until 2 seconds ago
If I did, I would admit it, no need to be dishonest
I wasn't expecting that you had seen it or that you were copying the idea. Just that your OP on this thread somewhat validated the point I was trying to make.
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In comment 16403121 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Gods honest truth, never saw that until 2 seconds ago
If I did, I would admit it, no need to be dishonest
Also, I don't think DJ is the guy, it's time to move on , just not now
If it's time to move on, it's time to move on. There's no "just not now" unless you don't actually believe it's time to move on. Waiting for the perfect time to take your QB (assuming you have access to one you believe in) is silly, IMO.
If you think that none of this year's class are the right QB, or that none represent an upgrade over DJ, that's an interesting take (I'd disagree, but I would argue that at least the premise and conclusion are logically consistent).
If you think that DJ is a legit franchise QB and doesn't need to be replaced at all, that's also an interesting take (and again, I'd vehemently disagree, but the argument would have a logically consistent premise and conclusion).
But if you are trying to make the case that "it's time to move on" but "just not now," I don't think that's a logically consistent argument and it suggests to me that you don't actually believe in one of those two things.
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In comment 16403103 JonC said:
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Falling into the habit of making reactionary decisions, failing to accurately (or honestly) self-scout, drafting for needs in the premium rounds, and failing to accurately consider the bigger picture is what got the Giants into this mess.
Don't fall into the same trap.
You liking any of these QBs JC?
Caleb and Maye, maybe the latter is somehow waiting for NYG at #6.
Yeah, that would be interesting. Not that I know Jack... but Caleb is the only one that looks special to me in this class. Maye's measurables seem ridiculous though. This draft is gonna be HELLA interesting for sure... lol
I'll make a guess and say primarily he doesn't like his size. Especially behind our OL.
That said, what I've seen is obvious gifts with his legs and deep passing. But, I've seen a lot left to be desired with his intermediate passing, arm strength, and yes, he's a painfully skinny buck. I think getting enough zip on passes to consistently fit in NFL windows will be an issue, and he'll need to prove he can defeat a zone shell, etc.
Asking for a friend.
I'm not saying do not draft a QB, I am saying don't take a QB just to take one. If the right QB can be drafted, sure, do that. But don't force the pick. This is not the same thing, BTW, as drafting a project QB's in most years. I'm talking about selecting "your guy".
Draft a QB or not, sign a QB or not, DJ is our quarterback next year, at least to start with. That has to be the plan, at least initially.
Spend next year fixing the Oline finally, and doing what can be done to shore up any other offensive issues, even if it is merely another year of refining the system and players gaining experience. Guys like Wan'dale, Hyatt, Bellinger, Ezudu...
Then in 2025 hopefully you have your post-DJ QB on the roster, even if a rookie draft choice, and now you move on to that guy with a functional offense and experienced supporting players. DJ's dead cap is less so he could be cut, or better - he can be traded now. Hopefully the current regime survived, which I think is a pretty good bet, so that they will then be in the 4th year of their system both coaching and FO, and I think you have to expect that it's starting to work at that point and this all provides stability for the new QB.
Now, if things start clicking this year, and you do have a guy who you think is the future QB, sure, put him in place of Jones. But don't do it out of desperation, and not before the offense is otherwise functional. What I'm saying is we can't plan for that, can't have a firm expectation of that.
I get the idea that the right QB makes the offense more functional, but I don't think that can be the plan - that the new QB will mitigate all the serious issues. I think the new QB will more likely be a victim of those issues.
Anyway, like it or hate it, that's just how I see it.
In optimal conditions, I feel like DJ is an average qb at best. Also, it's time for a change of scenery for him, I'm not certain how productive anyone can be after what he's been through..I just don't see it happening here, this is my opinion
I'm not saying do not draft a QB, I am saying don't take a QB just to take one. If the right QB can be drafted, sure, do that. But don't force the pick. This is not the same thing, BTW, as drafting a project QB's in most years. I'm talking about selecting "your guy".
Draft a QB or not, sign a QB or not, DJ is our quarterback next year, at least to start with. That has to be the plan, at least initially.
Spend next year fixing the Oline finally, and doing what can be done to shore up any other offensive issues, even if it is merely another year of refining the system and players gaining experience. Guys like Wan'dale, Hyatt, Bellinger, Ezudu...
Then in 2025 hopefully you have your post-DJ QB on the roster, even if a rookie draft choice, and now you move on to that guy with a functional offense and experienced supporting players. DJ's dead cap is less so he could be cut, or better - he can be traded now. Hopefully the current regime survived, which I think is a pretty good bet, so that they will then be in the 4th year of their system both coaching and FO, and I think you have to expect that it's starting to work at that point and this all provides stability for the new QB.
Now, if things start clicking this year, and you do have a guy who you think is the future QB, sure, put him in place of Jones. But don't do it out of desperation, and not before the offense is otherwise functional. What I'm saying is we can't plan for that, can't have a firm expectation of that.
I get the idea that the right QB makes the offense more functional, but I don't think that can be the plan - that the new QB will mitigate all the serious issues. I think the new QB will more likely be a victim of those issues.
Anyway, like it or hate it, that's just how I see it.
Then it's not "time to move on."
If you're punting on QB for another year, you're not only open to the possibility of DJ regaining your trust, part of you is rooting for that. And therefore, you don't necessarily believe that "it's time to move on."
I'm not saying that it's fundamentally illogical to hold the view that the best path forward for the Giants is with DJ, at least for 2024. I happen to strongly disagree with it, but leave that aside because I'm not talking about the argument itself; I'm talking about the structure and formulation of the argument. As soon as you add "just not now" it contradicts "it's time to move on."
If the time is "just not now" then what you're really hoping for is that improving the supporting cast will do enough to prop up a chronic loser like DJ, and if that's the case, the "it's time to move on" is a lie, intended to try to soft sell the argument for keeping DJ.
Rip the band-aid off and fix the problem, or keep patching it up. But when you have to build a rookie-level supporting cast for your $40M QB, you're already kinda fucked in half.
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In comment 16403190 Don from CT said:
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In comment 16403121 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Gods honest truth, never saw that until 2 seconds ago
If I did, I would admit it, no need to be dishonest
Also, I don't think DJ is the guy, it's time to move on , just not now
If it's time to move on, it's time to move on. There's no "just not now" unless you don't actually believe it's time to move on. Waiting for the perfect time to take your QB (assuming you have access to one you believe in) is silly, IMO.
If you think that none of this year's class are the right QB, or that none represent an upgrade over DJ, that's an interesting take (I'd disagree, but I would argue that at least the premise and conclusion are logically consistent).
If you think that DJ is a legit franchise QB and doesn't need to be replaced at all, that's also an interesting take (and again, I'd vehemently disagree, but the argument would have a logically consistent premise and conclusion).
But if you are trying to make the case that "it's time to move on" but "just not now," I don't think that's a logically consistent argument and it suggests to me that you don't actually believe in one of those two things.
I don't see spending assets on a young qb, having him sit for a year, then put him into a similar situation that DJ is in and potentially ruin the new guy. I'm all for fixing the O-line then moving forward from there. I really don't see DJ as the future in this town, it's time for a change.
One thing no matter what, regardless who the QB is. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that pays attention to the Giants (especially 1st game), is going to be question whether or not that O-Line is going to hold up. It is my opinion it needs to be fixed, fixed correctly, fixed fast..
One thing no matter what, regardless who the QB is. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that pays attention to the Giants (especially 1st game), is going to be question whether or not that O-Line is going to hold up. It is my opinion it needs to be fixed, fixed correctly, fixed fast..
Cool, something we agree on.
The Giants already fired their OL coach, hired a new one with a successful track record, and he'll be given an OL group that already consists of two first-round OTs (both in the top-10), a second-round OC, a third-round OG, and will supplement that group in both free agency, in the draft, and through internal development.
On top of that, the draft includes more than 250 selections, of which the Giants possess slightly more than their fair share. And before that will be free agency, where the Giants also have the ability to further address their OL.
So if the idea is that the #6 overall pick represents the sole path to improving the roster this year, I guess that would be the second fallacy that I'm finding in your argument, along with "just not now."
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One thing no matter what, regardless who the QB is. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that pays attention to the Giants (especially 1st game), is going to be question whether or not that O-Line is going to hold up. It is my opinion it needs to be fixed, fixed correctly, fixed fast..
Cool, something we agree on.
The Giants already fired their OL coach, hired a new one with a successful track record, and he'll be given an OL group that already consists of two first-round OTs (both in the top-10), a second-round OC, a third-round OG, and will supplement that group in both free agency, in the draft, and through internal development.
On top of that, the draft includes more than 250 selections, of which the Giants possess slightly more than their fair share. And before that will be free agency, where the Giants also have the ability to further address their OL.
So if the idea is that the #6 overall pick represents the sole path to improving the roster this year, I guess that would be the second fallacy that I'm finding in your argument, along with "just not now."
Okay, that is a fine "action plan" you put together, however, we've been fixing this line for 8 years.. It's been a week point of this team (franchise) for years.. Not saying everything goes through the 6th pick, just don't want to settle with what's left-over or give up assets to get there.
Personally, not a believer in any of the potential top 4, if it was Trevor Lawrence, I could see giving up capital or spending that high of a pick. It's just my opinion
Picking OL at #6 in this particular draft crop looks like reactionary amateur hour, unless they decide Alt or whomever is the best player to add. Which, is right up NYG's alley, so maybe you'll get your wish.