1983 Draft

so I totally got the decision not to take a QB there. We knew the USFL was going hard after Kelly, so teams shied away from taking him, and the drug concerns with Marino were more than minor. There was little chance Mara would sign off on taking Marino.

Talent-wise, I think Simms was as good as any of those guys, he just didn’t play in a system that showcased his arm. Put him with Walsh, Shula or Marv Levy, and who knows what kind of numbers he would have put up. It’s hard to argue that the Giants would have been better served taking a QB there when Simms won a SB (with one of the most efficient performances in SB history), and took them to a 2nd. TBH, it’s a weird thing to argue about.

In comment 16403098 Section331 said:

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So I totally got the decision not to take a QB there. We knew the USFL was going hard after Kelly, so teams shied away from taking him, and the drug concerns with Marino were more than minor. There was little chance Mara would sign off on taking Marino. Talent-wise, I think Simms was as good as any of those guys, he just didn’t play in a system that showcased his arm. Put him with Walsh, Shula or Marv Levy, and who knows what kind of numbers he would have put up. It’s hard to argue that the Giants would have been better served taking a QB there when Simms won a SB (with one of the most efficient performances in SB history), and took them to a 2nd. TBH, it’s a weird thing to argue about.

I wouldn't say argument. More of a discussion.

In hindsight, I agree Simms was a good QB. However, at the time of the draft, he seemed to have some questions regarding health and accuracy.

among the fan base about Simms not being able to stay healthy, but I thought his injuries were more freakish than cumulative. Breaking your hand on a defenders helmet can happen to any QB, I never understood how that could have been predictive of proneness to injury.

I think the Giants had legitimate concerns about their ability to sign Kelly (which turned out to be correct), and were scared off by the Marino Cocaine rumors. I don’t recall at the time there being any real talk of the Giants going QB in that draft.

At that point a LOT of fans had soured on Simms. And as mentioned the USFL really clouded the picture. That said, I was a massive Giants fan at the time but just really getting into the team fully around that time thanks to Ray Perkins and Parcells obviously. Butch Woolfolk was a fave of mine early... lol. And I liked Simms. If what you mentioned happened in this draft, there would be a whole lot of cliff jumping here... lol

but anyone who says they had high expectations of Simms in 1983 is either a liar or they had mystical prophecy powers. He was oft injured and not good in his first four years. Certainly worse than DJ in his first four years, even taking into account how much the position has changed. You could rely on him throwing an interception whenever the game was on the line.

The reason we did not take a QB, I think, is that the position was just not as valuable as it is today. Today it is by far the most important position not just in football but maybe in sports. Then, it was marginally more important than a safety but probably not as important as a running back. That 1983 class and Bill Walsh changed that.

When he was on the field the GIANTS put points on the board. Maybe not a ton of them, but points nevertheless.

The other QBs they had did not put the points up as much. Simms would get a FG when the others got nothing. Sometimes he'd get a TD when the others would settle for the FG.

A lot of so called fans were so sloshed or stupid or whatever that they couldn't see what was happening right under their noses - the GIANTS were FINALLY growing a real QB.

In comment 16403124 mfjmfj said:

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The reason we did not take a QB, I think, is that the position was just not as valuable as it is today. Today it is by far the most important position not just in football but maybe in sports. Then, it was marginally more important than a safety but probably not as important as a running back. That 1983 class and Bill Walsh changed that.

It is crazy how much different QB play was in the 70s. It seems like the main job of the passing game was just to chuck the ball as far as you could and hope for the best.

with Simms and a young QB who helmed a late season playoff push and Wild Card win only two seasons prior, there was no way they were going to add a third QB to the mix. they were confident win what they had on the roster.

Also, while the defense was still the backbone of the team, it needed an infusion of youth, hence the early selections of Terry Kinard and Leonard Marshall.

From Parcells Wiki page: "When Parcells took over in 1983, the team had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years. In his first year, he made a controversial decision to bench Phil Simms in favor of Scott Brunner due to Brunner's success in leading the Giants to the 1981 post-season."

In comment 16403138 elpeces said:

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From Parcells Wiki page: "When Parcells took over in 1983, the team had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years. In his first year, he made a controversial decision to bench Phil Simms in favor of Scott Brunner due to Brunner's success in leading the Giants to the 1981 post-season."

Parcells was sloshed/stupid on that decision.

I couldn't believe he did that at the time.

In comment 16403127 Red Dog said:

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When he was on the field the GIANTS put points on the board. Maybe not a ton of them, but points nevertheless. The other QBs they had did not put the points up as much. Simms would get a FG when the others got nothing. Sometimes he'd get a TD when the others would settle for the FG. A lot of so called fans were so sloshed or stupid or whatever that they couldn't see what was happening right under their noses - the GIANTS were FINALLY growing a real QB.

It was before I became a Giants fan, but if not mistaken didn't Parcells start Brunner over Simms in '83?

I know he later admitted it was a mistake, but was he sloshed or stupid in '83?

JohnG, obviously it was a bad decision. However, there are already two posts stating that Simms was obviously the answer going into the 83 draft. The head coach of the team benched him for Brunner.

beat me to it

When he broke a finger.....and she thought that Simms was a major pain...."crybaby", "whinner"!

So I held that against him, until '86....when all was forgiven!!!

In comment 16403154 George from PA said:

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When he broke a finger.....and she thought that Simms was a major pain...."crybaby", "whinner"! So I held that against him, until '86....when all was forgiven!!!

pics or GT.. ha ha. J/K.

In comment 16403150 elpeces said:

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JohnG, obviously it was a bad decision. However, there are already two posts stating that Simms was obviously the answer going into the 83 draft. The head coach of the team benched him for Brunner.

I was only referring to Parcells' decision to start Brunner over Simms.

I was referring Dog's and Larry's posts... George from PA, is a "whinner" a whiner that wins? I see a lot of those at the poker table.

They started 0-9 in Super Bowls until Elway got them 2 wins in the late 1990s to finish 2-9.

Kelly Lost 4
Marino Lost 1
Eason Lost 1
Elway started 0-3

As for Simms (a 1979 1st rounder) . . . he had some good wins against the guy he was drafted ahead of - Montana. 1985 Wildcard game and 1990 NFC Championship and one of my favorite Giant losses . . . the December 1990 defensive slugfest at Candlestick that the Niners won 7-3.

so no way the Mara's were taking him, and Simms biggest problem was the Giants (injuries too).

one more thing, that 1983 draft was one of their best EVER.

Kinard, Marshall, Nelson, Jamie Williams Headen, Perry Williams, Kevin Belcher, UDFA Zeke Mowatt, the Sheikh, the late John Tuggle. Wow.

He was a really good center.

In comment 16403261 Greg from LI said:

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He was a really good center.

Yes he was. Much stronger and more physical than Oates. What a shame.

In comment 16403192 3000_MilesToMeadowlands said:

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They started 0-9 in Super Bowls until Elway got them 2 wins in the late 1990s to finish 2-9. Kelly Lost 4 Marino Lost 1 Eason Lost 1 Elway started 0-3

That's interesting, but I think it shows that it's a team game. Defense and coaching matter. I think if you put Kelly, Marino or Elway on the Giants or the 49ers, it would be a different story.

Montana and Rice get much of the credit for those 9er teams, but they had great defenses also.

Marino had an all time great HC, but never had a great defense or much of a running game.

There were a lot of reports that Elway and Reeves didn't see eye to eye. As we saw when Reeves came to the Giants, he was a very conservative coach who called very predictable offense. Run first, run 2nd, pass on 3rd and long. I believe Reeves conservative and predictable play calling (and maybe not a great defense also) cost Elway and the Broncos at least one SB.

Kelly was very close in '90/91, but no cigar.

Eason doesn't really belong in the same convo; he was benched in '85 in favor of old guy Steve Grogan and only regained the starting job after Grogan was injured. Then the Pats ran into the Bears and their all time D.

I remember Walt Michaels wanted Dan Marino very badly and was furious that they chose O'Brien instead. So things turned out worse for the Jets than the Giants that year

check out the QBs selected in the '80-'82 drafts!

Fullbacks went in the top 5!!

In comment 16403316 LTIsTheGreatest said:

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I remember Walt Michaels wanted Dan Marino very badly and was furious that they chose O'Brien instead. So things turned out worse for the Jets than the Giants that year

The Jets FO must've known something the rest of the world didn't know. Haha!

had a horrible final season at Pitt, which led to the drug rumors.

But it really is insane how many teams passed on his prolific talent, especially the hometown Steelers.

That was such a different time, however, where running the ball was more of a centerpiece to most NFL teams.

The Niners were an outlier. JFC, Walsh was so far ahead of his time the way he approached and changed football.

In comment 16403307 Dr. D said:

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In comment 16403192 3000_MilesToMeadowlands said: Quote: They started 0-9 in Super Bowls until Elway got them 2 wins in the late 1990s to finish 2-9. Kelly Lost 4 Marino Lost 1 Eason Lost 1 Elway started 0-3 That's interesting, but I think it shows that it's a team game. Defense and coaching matter. I think if you put Kelly, Marino or Elway on the Giants or the 49ers, it would be a different story. Montana and Rice get much of the credit for those 9er teams, but they had great defenses also. Marino had an all time great HC, but never had a great defense or much of a running game. There were a lot of reports that Elway and Reeves didn't see eye to eye. As we saw when Reeves came to the Giants, he was a very conservative coach who called very predictable offense. Run first, run 2nd, pass on 3rd and long. I believe Reeves conservative and predictable play calling (and maybe not a great defense also) cost Elway and the Broncos at least one SB. Kelly was very close in '90/91, but no cigar. Eason doesn't really belong in the same convo; he was benched in '85 in favor of old guy Steve Grogan and only regained the starting job after Grogan was injured. Then the Pats ran into the Bears and their all time D.

That Elway got DEN to 3 SB’s with that roster was a testament to his brilliance. Put just about any other QB on that team, and they’re a borderline playoff team.

In comment 16403355 Section331 said:

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That Elway got DEN to 3 SB’s with that roster was a testament to his brilliance. Put just about any other QB on that team, and they’re a borderline playoff team.

Excellent, excellent point.

Elway was phenomenal. IMV, he still may be the most talented QB that ever walked the planet.

for the 83 draft, so I was more focused on my studies at the time... ah who's kidding who, I was more focused on beer and boobs.

I can echo the comments above, there was a lot of frustration about Simms not staying healthy or showing much for the first couple of years. 1983 draft rumors Kelly and the USFL/cold weather coming out of Miami, Marino the drug use rumors, but I thought it was more pot/pills than coke. The Giants had several middling QBs at the time (Scott Brunner anyone) and the team was built on defense and the running game, so not surprised they didn't draft one of the big name QBs. Don't think it was faith in Simms at the time, they just didn't think they needed more passing in the cold & windy Meadowlands.

In comment 16403360 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16403355 Section331 said: Quote: That Elway got DEN to 3 SB’s with that roster was a testament to his brilliance. Put just about any other QB on that team, and they’re a borderline playoff team. Excellent, excellent point. Elway was phenomenal. IMV, he still may be the most talented QB that ever walked the planet.

Agreed. Not that I know jack... lol but Elway STILL my top overall QB of my lifetime.

In comment 16403364 56goat said:

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for the 83 draft, so I was more focused on my studies at the time... ah who's kidding who, I was more focused on beer and boobs. I can echo the comments above, there was a lot of frustration about Simms not staying healthy or showing much for the first couple of years. 1983 draft rumors Kelly and the USFL/cold weather coming out of Miami, Marino the drug use rumors, but I thought it was more pot/pills than coke. The Giants had several middling QBs at the time (Scott Brunner anyone) and the team was built on defense and the running game, so not surprised they didn't draft one of the big name QBs. Don't think it was faith in Simms at the time, they just didn't think they needed more passing in the cold & windy Meadowlands.

I was a senior in college and it was the first draft I totally geeked out on. The best QB draft in a generation, and they were all my age. I recall the Marino rumors were around coke use, which makes sense, given how prevalent it was on campus.

drug incident in the NFL.

Guess he couldn't find any cocaine in Miami... In the 1980's... : )

Did LT not have any red flags coming out of college? If not, boy he did a great job fooling everyone!

In comment 16403124 mfjmfj said:

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but anyone who says they had high expectations of Simms in 1983 is either a liar or they had mystical prophecy powers. He was oft injured and not good in his first four years. Certainly worse than DJ in his first four years, even taking into account how much the position has changed. You could rely on him throwing an interception whenever the game was on the line. The reason we did not take a QB, I think, is that the position was just not as valuable as it is today. Today it is by far the most important position not just in football but maybe in sports. Then, it was marginally more important than a safety but probably not as important as a running back. That 1983 class and Bill Walsh changed that.

I wouldn't say I had high expectations, but I had high hopes. I was 11 years old, so looking at it through a kids eyes. I liked Simms and did not like Brunner. I wanted Simms to be good and I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the draft then, other than Elway refusing to play for the Colts. I was happy when we moved on from Brunner and brought in Rutledge.

In comment 16403353 bw in dc said:

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had a horrible final season at Pitt, which led to the drug rumors. But it really is insane how many teams passed on his prolific talent, especially the hometown Steelers. That was such a different time, however, where running the ball was more of a centerpiece to most NFL teams. The Niners were an outlier. JFC, Walsh was so far ahead of his time the way he approached and changed football.

Pittsburgh needed a QB as well. This was also when the game was starting to pass Chuck Noll and some of his long time scouts by. Rather than retooling with a passing game lead by Dan Marino they tried to remake what worked in the 1970's. It is not a knock on them, but it does happen to even some of the greatest minds.

There was a good 30 for 30 on this that I’d recommend watching.

In comment 16403464 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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There was a good 30 for 30 on this that I’d recommend watching.

"Elway to Marino"...lots of good insight from Marvin Demoff, the agent for both Elway and Marino.