“Giants MUST to trade up for QB”

.

.

.

fans and talking heads can advocate for patience all they want, but every year there are orgs that are aggressive and make it work. the aggressiveness can be taking a chance on an outside-the-box coach or trading up for a qb, but even if this formula only works 10% of the time, it still works and it turns orgs around. this org needs to turn it around - they realistically can't get that much worse. there is value in swinging for the fences with fans, even if you strike out, imo. this org has done very little of that (and often the opposite) since, I dunno, trading up for Eli.

do your research, target a qb, and go get him.

or #3. I doubt Washington trades down from #2

1st. The Giants shouldn't be in the big FA market to begin with.....the Giants are still in roster building mode.

Get dependable, if not highly sought FA.....combined with 4 solid draftees.

Sure, get a QB....if he will be significantly better than Jones....but not for preception....but out right better play.
Now, rarely, do coach and gm on a hot seat goes with a rookie.....so I hope the Giants get lucky!

Also, current OL will not allow any QB to be successful imo. The trenches still suck.....and must be fixed.

The defense has more opportunity to be good.

This isn't going to sit well with the "Anyone who thinks the staff is on the hot seat is an idiot" crowd.

We do to have enough depth to be giving away draft to picks LOL

argument I've been making.

Free agents don't want to come to the Giants is an idiot. Free agents go where the money and playing time is. Just look at the sorry Washington franchise. They continually signed bi name free agents under Snyder.

until the QB does. Get the heads out of the sand and make it happen. It's past time to kill the half-measures approach.

In comment 16403185 4xchamps said:

Quote:

Free agents don't want to come to the Giants is an idiot. Free agents go where the money and playing time is. Just look at the sorry Washington franchise. They continually signed bi name free agents under Snyder.

If the money is similar, they will go elsewhere unless they think there is some stability.

So I must be an idiot.

If Drake Maye is the guy they trade up for. Would that hurt if they choose him over Jayden Daniels?

the issue isn't FAs, as I have written (including that long article I did), a new QB buys Schoen and Daboll time.

You might not like it, but it does.

If the Giants go into 2024 with Daniel Jones as the unquestioned starter, it's easy to predict what will happen.

but i think a lot of the narratives re why/what it means for the roster are a little off target.

No need to trade up

I don't think Mara gives a flying fuck what 'league sources' say, unfortunately.

In comment 16403197 HardTruth said:

Quote:

No need to trade up

What?...JJ is the most popular topic there is on BBI right now. With numerous posters basically suggesting he is just short of Superman in terms of ability.

We will need to go up to overall #1 to have any chance at McCarthy.

But I could be wrong

if the Giants trade up to 1 at any point pre-draft, especially so during the combine.

I think there are a number of promising Qb's at the top of this draft and this OL is a disaster. Unless we're thinking about trading for Lamar Jackson, every QB rookie or not will be negatively affected by that starting 5.

Jones is coming off an ACL tear.

DeVito is the only other QB under contract.

If NYG signs a vet QB early in FA for insurance that Jones may not be ready for training camp then they may go WR in round 1.

Otherwise I would expect a QB to be the first round target.

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results…. Then running Jones & Barkley out there again in 2024 what are we going to get?

I’m not alone in my feeling that I just have no interest in watching that combination again.

To get some big-name or high-end free agents eventually. No great team relies entirely on bargain basement FAs and draftees to fill the entire roster. Sometimes you need a Guy and you need to shell out the money for them.

The 2007 Superbowl team was shaped in part by the McKenzie, Plax, and Pierce FA class, not to mention guys like Sam Madison. The 2011 Superbowl team had Canty, Rolle, etc.

The team can't lay low forever just because Gettleman failed in free agency (though I actually think either one of Adoree Jackson or Bradburry would have been fine, not both of them). A QB trajectory to sell would certainly help with this process.

sticking with Jones can give Schoen more time to address the roster overall. Daboll is dependent on a lot of other factors. I am not against trading up but if that pick doesn't work out then both are probably gone imv.

I can see JS going the safer route. Trading back in the 1st (QB may be BPA) or getting one in the late 1st/2nd round.

If team progresses significantly (even if QB is still a bit problematic) I think both can stick. JS may want a new HC in 2025.

That's the motivation. I have never heard this said of any QB needy team that FAs won't go there unless they have a QB. But anyway, that's not the reason.

We need to make a push to secure a franchise QB because we likely don't have one. Let's not overcomplicate this.

Thank you for posting GoDeep13. Always appreciated.

whole commentary reeks of the desperation that is the core of almost all bad trades. Fifty percent of first round QBs bust. And as someone said, Washington and NE likely won't trade with anyone, and Chicago apparently wants "historic" compensation to move out of #1.

The Giants should take one of the QBs at #6 (even McCarthy, although that would not be my preference), take the BPA at another position, or trade down.

In comment 16403208 Anakim said:

Quote:

But I could be wrong

I suspect you’re right. He’s sort of the under the radar guy. Will be interesting to see what happens.

In comment 16403214 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

sticking with Jones can give Schoen more time to address the roster overall. Daboll is dependent on a lot of other factors. I am not against trading up but if that pick doesn't work out then both are probably gone imv. I can see JS going the safer route. Trading back in the 1st (QB may be BPA) or getting one in the late 1st/2nd round. If team progresses significantly (even if QB is still a bit problematic) I think both can stick. JS may want a new HC in 2025.

I can't see it.

As I've said, we get smoked by the Cowboys in the opener with Jones, the stands will be empty in September. That means another house cleaning.

If you get smoked by the Cowboys with a new QB, fans will have more patience.

It's not possible with the Skins for the 2nd overall pick. The Pats want a QB too at #3 overall. The only thing that can change these two clubs from going QB with their respective picks are if they sign someone like Cousins in FA or if they trade for Fields from the Bears, which probably won't cost them more than a couple of picks (a second rounder and a mid-to-late rounder).

The Bears haven't declared one way or another which direction they'll go in with the 1st overall choice. If they have any brains in their collective heads, their front office and coaching staff will go with Caleb Williams. If that happens, then the NYG are out in the cold again and there's nothing they can do about it. Something needs to happen for one of those big three to not be selected in those first three picks. If that "thing"--whatever it may be--does happen, then the Cards at 4 would be great to deal with since they've got their QB on their roster already.

10 years of bad drafts, 10 years of bad cap management, 10 years of horrible FA decisions..

All on Schoen and Daboll to fix in 2-3 years....

In comment 16403214 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

sticking with Jones can give Schoen more time to address the roster overall. Daboll is dependent on a lot of other factors. I am not against trading up but if that pick doesn't work out then both are probably gone imv. I can see JS going the safer route. Trading back in the 1st (QB may be BPA) or getting one in the late 1st/2nd round. If team progresses significantly (even if QB is still a bit problematic) I think both can stick. JS may want a new HC in 2025.

I don't understand this take. Jones is dreadful. Everybody knows it except a small subset of Giants fans. There is nothing safe about Jones anymore. Some people thought signing Jones was safe. How'd that turn out? The only sure thing about sticking with Jones is you'll lose your damn job, like Gettleman, like Shurmur, like Judge, like Jason Garrett, have I left anybody out? Plus he is dreadful to watch.

Desperation is what leads to gross overpay or reach. NYG are not in a good spot at QB. But you don't fix one thing by stacking further poor decisions on top. If NYG does something for the reasons provided in the OP, odds are it will look back at it as a regrettable decision and will be pointing back as an excuse why poor choices were made.

This team is not one year or one player away. We need to make smart unemotional decisions. The frenzied fan base won't understand. But for me personally, I want out of this mess not appeasement.

In comment 16403231 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

It's not possible with the Skins for the 2nd overall pick. The Pats want a QB too at #3 overall. The only thing that can change these two clubs from going QB with their respective picks are if they sign someone like Cousins in FA or if they trade for Fields from the Bears, which probably won't cost them more than a couple of picks (a second rounder and a mid-to-late rounder). The Bears haven't declared one way or another which direction they'll go in with the 1st overall choice. If they have any brains in their collective heads, their front office and coaching staff will go with Caleb Williams. If that happens, then the NYG are out in the cold again and there's nothing they can do about it. Something needs to happen for one of those big three to not be selected in those first three picks. If that "thing"--whatever it may be--does happen, then the Cards at 4 would be great to deal with since they've got their QB on their roster already.

There might not be a partner but there is still a chance QB3 falls to the Giants, and it is likely QB4 falls to the Giants.

Or taking a QB at 6, JS needs to come out of the top of the first round with a QB.

In comment 16403231 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

It's not possible with the Skins for the 2nd overall pick. The Pats want a QB too at #3 overall. The only thing that can change these two clubs from going QB with their respective picks are if they sign someone like Cousins in FA or if they trade for Fields from the Bears, which probably won't cost them more than a couple of picks (a second rounder and a mid-to-late rounder). The Bears haven't declared one way or another which direction they'll go in with the 1st overall choice. If they have any brains in their collective heads, their front office and coaching staff will go with Caleb Williams. If that happens, then the NYG are out in the cold again and there's nothing they can do about it. Something needs to happen for one of those big three to not be selected in those first three picks. If that "thing"--whatever it may be--does happen, then the Cards at 4 would be great to deal with since they've got their QB on their roster already.

I think the move is to #4 but that's only if this is a 4 QB draft (which would presumably be Williams, Maye, Daniels, JJM).

I think it's probably at least a 3 QB draft but I'm not as sure it's 4. I think Daniels is a little overrated by the flashy stats/talent and some holes are overlooked.

And take themselves out of Williams/Maye/Daniels? Someone has to be the team left standing out in the cold, and unfortunately that’s the NYG.

He makes a point of essentially saying the Giants are the only team in the league that believes in DJ. It may be true that the Giants need to replace him and most everyone believes that he has not proven himself to be the answer.

That said, I believe that the biggest mistake the Giants made in the last several years was to NOT trade the #2 pick that they used on Barkley. I don't say that because I think he was the wrong choice at #2, in retrospect, he may have been the second best possible choice after Josh Allen.

I say it because of the VALUE we could have obtained in terms of additional draft capital which could have been carried forward for years. (At least one future #1 plus extra picks, plus still drafting a good player like Nelson or ALLEN). The Giants may be in a similar situation this year and cannot miss the opportunity.

I am very much against a trade up. I think if the QB they like is available at 6, then you take him (McCarthy). Otherwise, it makes sense to trade back and get ahead of the chains as far as draft capital is concerned. That will set the team up for sustained success - see Philly. The Eagles got ahead of the game via trades (Starting with the Sam Bradford trade)and rode the wave for years before cashing out at this year's draft.

The Lions did the same thing with Stafford and cashed out two #1s this year. The Bears may be the next team to do that. How does Carolina's future look? Some may point to Stroud helping to turn around the Texans, but they did not trade up to get him.

Anyway that's my two cents.

That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks.

Good info.

In comment 16403244 GoDeep13 said:

Quote:

That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks.

And this is when it comes to conviction. If it hits, no one cares. If it doesn't, you're fired.

In comment 16403244 GoDeep13 said:

Quote:

That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks.

The Bears are obviously the team willing/looking to trade again.

The question is if 1 QB stands above the others in class? I dont have a strong take on that, i see things i like and dislike about all of them.

In comment 16403240 The_Boss said:

Quote:

And take themselves out of Williams/Maye/Daniels? Someone has to be the team left standing out in the cold, and unfortunately that’s the NYG.

Because we don't know their draft board. Teams may like Nix & McCarthy more than Maye & Daniels.

In comment 16403234 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Desperation is what leads to gross overpay or reach. NYG are not in a good spot at QB. But you don't fix one thing by stacking further poor decisions on top. If NYG does something for the reasons provided in the OP, odds are it will look back at it as a regrettable decision and will be pointing back as an excuse why poor choices were made. This team is not one year or one player away. We need to make smart unemotional decisions. The frenzied fan base won't understand. But for me personally, I want out of this mess not appeasement.

^This.

In comment 16403244 GoDeep13 said:

Quote:

That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks.

3?? Ok that’s a bit ridiculous. I don’t think any of these guys are Mahomes/Elway/Peyton Manning..

In comment 16403240 The_Boss said:

Quote:

And take themselves out of Williams/Maye/Daniels? Someone has to be the team left standing out in the cold, and unfortunately that’s the NYG.

Assume CHI and WAS draft Williams and Maye. There is a chance New England doesn't want Daniels and they either draft MHJ or trade back. That leaves an opening for the Giants to get Daniels or QB4.

In comment 16403249 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16403240 The_Boss said: Quote: And take themselves out of Williams/Maye/Daniels? Someone has to be the team left standing out in the cold, and unfortunately that’s the NYG. Because we don't know their draft board. Teams may like Nix & McCarthy more than Maye & Daniels.

While true, every media list has these guys as 1-3. The perception, whether true in nfl circles is TBD, Nix and JJ are a clear level below. Schoen cannot settle.

In comment 16403254 The_Boss said:

Quote:

In comment 16403244 GoDeep13 said: Quote: That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks. 3?? Ok that’s a bit ridiculous. I don’t think any of these guys are Mahomes/Elway/Peyton Manning..

Williams might be. Many think he has the traits.

In comment 16403248 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 16403244 GoDeep13 said: Quote: That he said he’s heard there is a trade out there to be made. But it would require a pretty hefty bite of the bullet. He said he heard the conversation starts at 3 1st round picks. The Bears are obviously the team willing/looking to trade again. The question is if 1 QB stands above the others in class? I dont have a strong take on that, i see things i like and dislike about all of them.

Most of the analysts and draft nerds I follow see Caleb Williams as the clear #1 and the Bears would be foolish not to draft him.

#6 is a tweener of a pick.
Either trade up for a QB,or trade back for draft capital and fill a bunch of holes....
Alt is a LT- nope
2 WRS after MHJ- nope
Bowers-nope

Trade up or down