I know Mahomes is the comp for Williams for a lot here, but doesn't seem Sy is as big on him as some are (wanting to trade up to 1 for him). Says he is closer to Mayfield and Murray than he is Mahomes.
Just posted this today so thought it was an interesting watch.
Link - (
New Window )
Maybe he'll land on a team will show patience and give him 6 or 7 years while they fire every GM and coach they have until they build a team around him.
That depends. Would he be stuck with a brain that can't even read a pop warner defense like DJ?
Do you really want Justin Fields? Really want him?
No, I didn't think so.
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why not trade a pick to Chicago for Fields. Cheaper and you already know what you are getting.
Do you really want Justin Fields? Really want him?
No, I didn't think so.
It's unbelievable, isn't it?
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In comment 16404061 section125 said:
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In comment 16404059 Heisenberg said:
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In comment 16404054 section125 said:
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what is EQ?
It means emotional intelligence and is kind of a twist on IQ.
So the modern way of saying calm under fire...doesn't get rattled.
It is more than that. If you read the post it also encompasses accountability and leadership traits, work ethic, etc. To put it another way, the tools do not matter if the players around you don’t want you to succeed or you don’t put in the effort needed to be an NFL QB. Aaron Rodgers can be a dick of a person, but those that get in his inner circle go all out for him. Contrast that to a Jeff George where his OL wanted him to get sacked hard.
Thanks Mike.
I do not know if this is an actual term(EQ) used in analysis of players by scouts as I do not remember seeing it before or if I did and I just glossed it over.
But seems like a fancy term for saying "it" factor.
But ok another mystery solved.
One thing on Williams - he is 21. Has his physical tools mostly in place, no doubt. His maturity level may just be lagging - happens often in men. Some people are leaders at an early age, others gain it with time, experience and confidence. Others never get it.
Eli Apple
If all it took to be a decent NFL QB was being nice and a hard worker, NYG wouldn't be in the mess they are with Dan Jones. NYG brass/coaches seem to really like him as a person despite him not being able to cut it performance wise.
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I had similar skepticism about this:
McCarthy had depression issues in high school. So, he turned to meditation to manage it. I don't have a problem with that.
I don't like McCarthy as a lottery pick, but this isn't an issue with me.
I don't have any issues with meditating. Doing it over and over in a very visible place at a time when the cameras are watching...I don't know...
Fields is more expensive. Much more. If you trade for him you're going to pay him.
Eric recently talked about the success of QB prospects being largely tied to what's between the ears. Any reasonable talent evaluator would have to agree. You can't measure this on highlight film. And you can have all the arm talent in the world and fail because of not having it where it counts.
And Williams DOES have all the arm talent in the world. He is an A+++ prospect based on arm talent alone. But arm talent by itself is perhaps the worst predictor of NFL success that there is.
There are two basic types of intelligence. There is IQ and EQ. I don't know enough about Williams to make a certain judgement on either. I don't think he's an unintelligent man in terms of IQ.
But I think EQ is so underrated in QB prospect evaluation. That position demands high EQ. I have questions here. How does a QB respond to failure? How is he as a leader of men? When the stakes are immense and dealing with intense stress (often in the physical form of pressure), can he stay composed and execute in an intense environment? Can you take accountability for your own mistakes and be humble when you cost your team, or will you deflect blame?
I would say I have serious doubts about Williams' EQ. Off the field, he seems to me to be self-absorbed in his own perceived greatness. He didn't deliver often in high-stress situations.
If you compare him to Daniels in terms of composure under pressure, Daniels is undoubted superior, against tougher competition. Failure drives the greats to be better, it fuels them to improve. Failure angers them, but pushes them. With Mahomes, the one thing that sticks out is seeking solace in his mother's arms. I don't want to make too much of a deal of that, but it does raise a question to me about his EQ.
Think about Eli's composure in throughout his NFL career in big moments. I think about that 2011 season NFCCG against SF. To me that was Eli's greatest game of his career, because he was hit relentlessly and under intense pressure, and kept his composure and continued to execute and ultimately won that game.
Ernie Accorsi called it "the IT factor". I think what he was talking about is high EQ. Eli had that. The great ones combine high on-field and off-field IQ, EQ, and physical talent. I have zero doubts in Williams' physical talent. But that places in a distant third to the two former categories as predictors of future NFL success. And those categories are also the hardest to measure for any QB prospect. In a nutshell, this is why so many highly rated QB prospects don't pan out in the NFL, because so much weight is given to more definable measurables such as arm talent and athletic ability, when those things are nice to haves compared to a QB with high IQ and EQ. This is why a guy like Brock Purdy, who was not an impressive QB prospect when it came to physical and athletic makeup has had the success he has had. He has terrific IQ and EQ, that has manifested itself on the field. It's why Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick that became the GOAT...it's his elite IQ and EQ.
With Williams, to me it seems that true believers like Producer take all of his physical ability and project him to be a superstar QB. Where my concerns are about maturity, on-field IQ and EQ. I'm not saying I'm right. As I said, these are the hardest attributes to quantify for prospects. But if I compare him to Daniels, I get a better comfort level in composure and maturity...signs that he is superior "between the ears", and this is to say nothing about how he compares to the other QB prospects in this draft.
Good post that reflects many of my sentiments as well.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
Cheaper? Maybe in the picks needed to get him, but not in dollars owed. The decision to pick up Fields’ 5th year is due next month. After that, he is going to likely get a major payday.
I’m not an advocate for trading up to get Williams. The Bears will (and should) ask for a king’s ransom that would make their heist of Carolina last year look like a penny swap. But having a QB on a full rookie contract is a big fucking deal, especially for a team like NYG that is a few years away. A team like ATL or Pitt makes more sense for Fields, since they are closer to contention.
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
It is a straw man. exactly right. Nobody is saying Williams will be Mahomes. It's a silly contention.
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I had similar skepticism about this:
McCarthy had depression issues in high school. So, he turned to meditation to manage it. I don't have a problem with that.
I don't like McCarthy as a lottery pick, but this isn't an issue with me.
It’s the furthest thing from an issue for me. He meditates, so the fuck what? I g7ess you could say he should do it in the locker room, but at the end of the day, who cares?
I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
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...the one thing that sticks out is seeking solace in his mother's arms. I don't want to make too much of a deal of that, but it does raise a question to me about his EQ.
This bothered me too...I don't know if this is fair but my first thought when I saw that was that he knew the cameras would pick it up and it was a calculated move to keep the attention on him after he got outplayed by Penix, who was also a Heisman candidate and possible rival for elite NFL draft status.
I had similar skepticism about this:
Stunts like that are why I think Williams is likely not on the Giants board. Mara would never accept him as the face of the franchise.
If John Mara is going to be that thin-skinned, we are in for decades of more suckitude. Yeah, let’s pass on a guy because he cried once. Larry Bird bawled his eyes out after losing the NCAACG to Magic and Michigan State. I guess Red Auerbach should have passed on him too.
How so? I was directly quoting the video I linked and posted it because I've seen many here directly comp Williams to Mahomes. Maybe watch the video?
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
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In comment 16404055 Go Terps said:
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I had similar skepticism about this:
McCarthy had depression issues in high school. So, he turned to meditation to manage it. I don't have a problem with that.
I don't like McCarthy as a lottery pick, but this isn't an issue with me.
It’s the furthest thing from an issue for me. He meditates, so the fuck what? I g7ess you could say he should do it in the locker room, but at the end of the day, who cares?
I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I'm not speaking about Sy, at all, but a lot of the anti-Williams backlash is a bunch of macho keyboard warriors who have their manhood threatened because they saw him cry once or heard a story he painted his fingernails once. Never mind almost every reputable analyst believes he has otherworldly talent to excel in the NFL. Because he is a little unorthodox they have made up a story he can't hack it in the NFL, based solely on their stupid biases. People who fall into this trap just sound like pathetic jerks. I don't care if CW wears a dress, if he's a great QB he can play for my team. It's as if these idiots haven't seen players cry on the field before... only like every playoff game has players showing emotion.
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In comment 16404185 Section331 said:
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
Damn autocorrect, uber talent, not under talent.
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In comment 16404185 Section331 said:
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
He has said that, at worst, Williams is a Top 10 NFL QB and has likened parts of his game to Mahomes, Elway, etc.
I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I agree. He didn't go into the stands and confront/attack a patron. CW hugged his mom. In a way, it humanizes him.
The nerve...
But the social media mob want people to act a certain way. And if you don't, the hammer is dropped. It's just the nature of the beast.
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In comment 16404084 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16404055 Go Terps said:
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I had similar skepticism about this:
McCarthy had depression issues in high school. So, he turned to meditation to manage it. I don't have a problem with that.
I don't like McCarthy as a lottery pick, but this isn't an issue with me.
It’s the furthest thing from an issue for me. He meditates, so the fuck what? I g7ess you could say he should do it in the locker room, but at the end of the day, who cares?
I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I'm not speaking about Sy, at all, but a lot of the anti-Williams backlash is a bunch of macho keyboard warriors who have their manhood threatened because they saw him cry once or heard a story he painted his fingernails once. Never mind almost every reputable analyst believes he has otherworldly talent to excel in the NFL. Because he is a little unorthodox they have made up a story he can't hack it in the NFL, based solely on their stupid biases. People who fall into this trap just sound like pathetic jerks. I don't care if CW wears a dress, if he's a great QB he can play for my team. It's as if these idiots haven't seen players cry on the field before... only like every playoff game has players showing emotion.
I could care less about the crying to his mom thing, I don't consider that a factor. I just question his mind based on his stats, tape and overall demeanor.
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In comment 16404187 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16404185 Section331 said:
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
He has said that, at worst, Williams is a Top 10 NFL QB and has likened parts of his game to Mahomes, Elway, etc.
No. I've said all over this board that any player can be a bust.
His height is definitely a factor, but every QB has bad games. At least ND had a good D, go check Mahomes stats v. Iowa St his Jr year at TX Tech, Iowa St D gave up 450 yards passing per game that year.
CW has played at a place where no one really cares about football
That is the question I would have. I think Daniels can do almost everything CW can do. With Maye all you hear about is he is big, athletic, can run, etc. never hear how he actually plays QB. What makes him better than Trubisky or Howell as a prospect
CW has played at a place where no one really cares about football
That is the question I would have. I think Daniels can do almost everything CW can do. With Maye all you hear about is he is big, athletic, can run, etc. never hear how he actually plays QB. What makes him better than Trubisky or Howell as a prospect
You don't think Los Angeles cares about the USC Trojans? You don't think Oklahoma cares about the Sooners?
This New York media thing is a canard to dismiss players you don't like. You haven't a clue who will or won't have a problem with NY media. You don't have a crystal ball and you're not a mind reader.
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I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I agree. He didn't go into the stands and confront/attack a patron. CW hugged his mom. In a way, it humanizes him.
The nerve...
But the social media mob want people to act a certain way. And if you don't, the hammer is dropped. It's just the nature of the beast.
I could care less about the hugging thing and agree I think it shows a human element. Not so big on the fingernail thing, but whatever. I'm just not sure he has it between the ears on the field or the "IT factor". I could very well be wrong on that, we shall see. That all said, all the physical tools are obviously there...
The point is that Sy knows more than most here about what he sees from a player.
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In comment 16404198 Section331 said:
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I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I agree. He didn't go into the stands and confront/attack a patron. CW hugged his mom. In a way, it humanizes him.
The nerve...
But the social media mob want people to act a certain way. And if you don't, the hammer is dropped. It's just the nature of the beast.
I could care less about the hugging thing and agree I think it shows a human element. Not so big on the fingernail thing, but whatever. I'm just not sure he has it between the ears on the field or the "IT factor". I could very well be wrong on that, we shall see. That all said, all the physical tools are obviously there...
But every analyst shows on video how he is a gamer who plays smart football and demonstrates a high football IQ. He the toughest on this class in the pocket, which shows courage and football smarts. So where are you getting he "doesn't have it between the ears"? Who says this? Where did you get this idea? How did you come to this conclusion?
But every analyst shows on video how he is a gamer who plays smart football and demonstrates a high football IQ. He the toughest on this class in the pocket, which shows courage and football smarts. So where are you getting he "doesn't have it between the ears"? Who says this? Where did you get this idea? How did you come to this conclusion?
I guess my "I could be wrong" comment wasn't enough to show that I may very well be wrong in that assessment as I am indeed no expert, and even expert analysts, such as the ones you cite, never bate 1.000 and can be wrong.
USC vs ND - ( New Window )
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In comment 16404207 Section331 said:
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In comment 16404187 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16404185 Section331 said:
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
He has said that, at worst, Williams is a Top 10 NFL QB and has likened parts of his game to Mahomes, Elway, etc.
No. I've said all over this board that any player can be a bust.
Well you did say his floor was a top 10qb
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In comment 16404219 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16404207 Section331 said:
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In comment 16404187 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16404185 Section331 said:
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In comment 16403557 Eric from BBI said:
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may want to watch the video before commenting.
I watched the video, and with all due respect, I think Sy has built a bit of a straw man here. I don’t know that anyone is guaranteeing that Caleb will be as good as Mahomes is in the NFL, just that they (we) see similarities in their games. As others have noted, comparing Williams USC tape to Mahomes NFL tape is simply not a fair comparison. And if Sy wants to dish on the pathetic Pac 12 defenses (no argument there), wait until he sees how bad the Big 12 defenses were that Mahomes played against.
The only apt comparisons right now between Williams and Mahomes are in their college tape. Comparing Caleb to a 7-year NFL veteran who may go down as the GOAT just isn’t a fair fight.
I guess you have not met Producer Manhattan
With all due respect, I haven’t seen him say that. He does say that Williams is an under talent, which is defensible.
He has said that, at worst, Williams is a Top 10 NFL QB and has likened parts of his game to Mahomes, Elway, etc.
No. I've said all over this board that any player can be a bust.
Well you did say his floor was a top 10qb
No. I've said all over this board that any player can be a bust.
Well you did say his floor was a top 10qb
Let's try that again
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The NFL defenses will be indescribably more challenging than say the Notre Dame defense.
His height is definitely a factor, but every QB has bad games. At least ND had a good D, go check Mahomes stats v. Iowa St his Jr year at TX Tech, Iowa St D gave up 450 yards passing per game that year.
In his first 5 games of the year vs. San Jose St, Nevada, Stanford, Arizona St and Colorado he had 1600 yards and 21 tds against laughing stock defenses.
In the following 7 games he had 9 tds and 4 ints and 5 fumbles against mostly average defenses (sans UCLA, ND and maybe Utah). Without the Washington game included (they gave up crazy amounts of points all year) he had 6 tds 4ints and 4 fumbles in those 6 games. He did not play well and did not show a strong mentality in response to the pressure of winning the pac12 and how he crumbled after they were likely out of contention.
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In comment 16404228 BleedBlue46 said:
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The NFL defenses will be indescribably more challenging than say the Notre Dame defense.
His height is definitely a factor, but every QB has bad games. At least ND had a good D, go check Mahomes stats v. Iowa St his Jr year at TX Tech, Iowa St D gave up 450 yards passing per game that year.
In his first 5 games of the year vs. San Jose St, Nevada, Stanford, Arizona St and Colorado he had 1600 yards and 21 tds against laughing stock defenses.
In the following 7 games he had 9 tds and 4 ints and 5 fumbles against mostly average defenses (sans UCLA, ND and maybe Utah). Without the Washington game included (they gave up crazy amounts of points all year) he had 6 tds 4ints and 4 fumbles in those 6 games. He did not play well and did not show a strong mentality in response to the pressure of winning the pac12 and how he crumbled after they were likely out of contention.
I didnt realize his year was that bad. Those are VERY pedestrian numbers
USC was lucky to beat Arizona in triple overtime or else CW would have gone 1-6 during his slump of bad play with a questionable mentality.
The questions about his mind are not related to his finger nails or crying to his mom. The questions are related to the tape, stats and his overall demeanor.
USC was lucky to beat Arizona in triple overtime or else CW would have gone 1-6 during his slump of bad play with a questionable mentality.
The questions about his mind are not related to his finger nails or crying to his mom. The questions are related to the tape, stats and his overall demeanor.
I really like Daniels, so don't get me wrong here, but he did have a top 2/3 WR to throw to along with another first round WR. That said, I'd be more than happy if Giants drafted Daniels. I also agree with your sentiment, re: Williams.
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After removing the games against Army, Georgia st, and Grambling st had 26 tds passing 7 tds rushing 4 ints. 2850 yards throwing, 1000 yards rushing with 2 fumbles.
USC was lucky to beat Arizona in triple overtime or else CW would have gone 1-6 during his slump of bad play with a questionable mentality.
The questions about his mind are not related to his finger nails or crying to his mom. The questions are related to the tape, stats and his overall demeanor.
I really like Daniels, so don't get me wrong here, but he did have a top 2/3 WR to throw to along with another first round WR. That said, I'd be more than happy if Giants drafted Daniels. I also agree with your sentiment, re: Williams.
Of course Brian Thomas and Malik Nabers are uber talented, but this was in the SEC, against defenses in a whole different league than those CW faced. I'd rather have JD than CW, I have an opposite sentiment about JD's mentality vs CW's.
Of course Brian Thomas and Malik Nabers are uber talented, but this was in the SEC, against defenses in a whole different league than those CW faced. I'd rather have JD than CW, I have an opposite sentiment about JD's mentality vs CW's.
Valid, and I agree, just throwing that out there haha. For me I'd be more than happy with Daniels, but if not Daniels I'd want JJ/Maye.
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Of course Brian Thomas and Malik Nabers are uber talented, but this was in the SEC, against defenses in a whole different league than those CW faced. I'd rather have JD than CW, I have an opposite sentiment about JD's mentality vs CW's.
Valid, and I agree, just throwing that out there haha. For me I'd be more than happy with Daniels, but if not Daniels I'd want JJ/Maye.
I agree. I want JD, JJM, DM in order of preference. One will be within reach at minimum.
Ok
Ok
His points are that they are completely different and drawing comparisons are lazy and ridiculous basically. His comps are closer to Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield than Mahomes. I think that's very valid. If you watch the video, it brings up some very valid points questioning CW's mental game that have been mentioned here before. He isn't nearly as generational as the media hypes him up to be, while still being a very good qb prospect.
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In comment 16404084 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16404055 Go Terps said:
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I had similar skepticism about this:
McCarthy had depression issues in high school. So, he turned to meditation to manage it. I don't have a problem with that.
I don't like McCarthy as a lottery pick, but this isn't an issue with me.
It’s the furthest thing from an issue for me. He meditates, so the fuck what? I g7ess you could say he should do it in the locker room, but at the end of the day, who cares?
I’m only slightly more concerned with Williams jumping into his mother’s arms. Yes, teams should investigate his maturity level and make sure he can handle adversity, but this event is so overblown it’s bordering on ridiculous.
I'm not speaking about Sy, at all, but a lot of the anti-Williams backlash is a bunch of macho keyboard warriors who have their manhood threatened because they saw him cry once or heard a story he painted his fingernails once. Never mind almost every reputable analyst believes he has otherworldly talent to excel in the NFL. Because he is a little unorthodox they have made up a story he can't hack it in the NFL, based solely on their stupid biases. People who fall into this trap just sound like pathetic jerks. I don't care if CW wears a dress, if he's a great QB he can play for my team. It's as if these idiots haven't seen players cry on the field before... only like every playoff game has players showing emotion.
I only brought up the momma thing as an example of what is a maybe piece of evidence towards the bigger question mark of his EQ. I did say I didn't want to make a big deal of it, because by itself, yes, it's ridiculous to make any conclusions of that.
Because there is no combine for EQ though, if you are trying as an observer to evaluate a QB prospect, there is so little to try to glean from in this regard, so it's fair to question the things you do see occasionally.
I totally agree that the fact he cried and hugged his mom isn't a big deal in isolation at all.
I've acknowledged I don't know enough about him as a person to make conclusions on his EQ. But what I would rather see after a big loss is thinking about his teammates at least as much as himself. Winning together is one thing, but losing together is just as important, if you know what I mean by that. Being a leader when you're in the valley as a team...that is the mark of a high EQ person. Being responsible and accountable to them for your own contributions to the loss.
And to be fair, he very may well have done ALL of this, after he shared this particular moment with his mom, which is ok.
But this young man does seem to be a big fan of "me", based on my casual observation, doesn't mean I'm right.
To tie it all together, remember the celebration on the USC TD that they had in their bowl game? "Now we're a team!" If that was said because of an underlying feeling of the team that the QB was all about himself and not the team, that's a major major red flag. We don't know for sure if that's the case. Another thing to not blow out of proportion. But a high EQ leader is going to at least portray, "it's all about us[ in this locker room," even if inwardly he doesn't really believe that.
Yes, you must have physical ability as a baseline to be successful in the NFL. But if he is a low EQ guy, a me-first guy, a ego-centric guy, he's not going to make it, no matter how physically gifted he is. That position demands so much more than any other position on the football field.
Patrick Mahomes isn't great because of his fantastic arm talent or that he can throw from crazy arm angles or that he has terrific football instincts. All of those things contribute to his greatness, yes. But he's great because he's driven, he's a leader, his teammates believe in him, they trust him, and he drives his team to be great. He has both high football (and I suspect overall) IQ, and high EQ. Combine those factors with his God-given natural and physical gifts, and it makes him a champion.
The NFL is littered with highly-drafted, highly-physically-gifted QB busts because of low EQ. The two that immediately come to mind are JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf. I also mentioned Zach Wilson as another. We saw in recent years Wilson blow up at reporters and deflect blame to his teammates.
But make no mistake, all of these guys had tremendous, top-shelf physical NFL gifts.
If there is a deficit there with Williams, perhaps it will come with more maturity, and perhaps not. Someone who may have a narcissistic personality, I would bet that it will be very difficult for that maturity to come before it's too late.
I didn't mention this before in the earlier post, but translating all of this to the football field, when I have watched Williams, he does seem (to me) to play panicky under duress. The fumbling is a manifestation of this. Sometimes, his amazing physical talent has bailed him and his team out in those situations. But as Sy has said, perhaps termed differently, that backyard football style of play will be difficult to be successful with in the NFL. The margins are smaller, the players are bigger, faster, stronger.
Then I look at Daniels, and I'm blown away. His metrics under pressure are better, but casual observation, he seems to have really strong football instincts that serve him well when everything isn't perfect. Just in the way he runs, he naturally feels the leverage of the defense and the blockers and just cuts the right way so often. His accuracy under duress I've been impressed with. His composure I'm impressed with.
As a QB, I feel more comfortable with Daniels in IQ and EQ than I do with Williams. Perhaps this is unfair and I have it completely wrong. But that's my personal feeling having watched both players.
Out of all the top 6 players, and I haven't watched nearly enough of Nix, Penix, Maye and McCarthy, but I do have the most questions regarding composure with Williams than I do with any of them. And any of them can still bust because of totally unrelated factors to IQ and EQ. But if I'm in an NFL front office, evaluating a QB prospect on IQ and EQ has to be paramount. I don't remember who said it, but the quote was, with respect to draft prospects busting, "You don't miss on the player, you miss on the person." That is so true.
I would absolutely take a less-physically-gifted QB with a sterling mental makeup than I would an uber-physical talent who doesn't have it between the ears. With this position, the stakes are so high, particularly drafting in the first round, and that QB has to be an extension of the head coach in the locker room, in the huddle and between the snap and the whistle. You have to at once be a leader of men and be humble enough to take an out-sized share of the blame when things go poorly, and be humble enough to be coachable and completely buy-in to your coaching staff.
I see what you see in the talent-level of Williams. And yet, I'm not there with him.
“It’s a good positive moment. I still think more so for the team than me personally,” Moss said. “These six weeks since UCLA weren’t about any individual. They were about us, the people who wanted to be here and play this game and wanted to come together.”
^Backup QB from USC that won (and he dominated) after the Bowl win. The UCLA game? Williams' last game
“It’s a good positive moment. I still think more so for the team than me personally,” Moss said. “These six weeks since UCLA weren’t about any individual. They were about us, the people who wanted to be here and play this game and wanted to come together.”
^Backup QB from USC that won (and he dominated) after the Bowl win. The UCLA game? Williams' last game
This backs up what you're saying.
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