Open to Daniels/Maye at 6 if they drop but assuming the top 3 QBs are taken, Penix at 6 or a trade down/up as needed. I'm no scout but he just looks like he's a dominant passer who will put points on the board. He can shuffle around to avoid pressure well enough but he gets the ball out quick (Jones biggest weakness). His upside looks through the roof.
I've heard Tua comps but to me I see more Herbert than Tua. I think Penix can really stress defenses with his arm and willingness to trust it.
If they are willing to risk it based on intel, a small trade down?
I know there are a million opinions out there but watching the top QBs he's the guy I think can drive peak offense.
Take Penix and let the best man win between him and Jones in camp (if Jones is ready).
Non athletic is way off the mark, he has a top flight arm and pocket skills, he is sneaky athletic, injuries are always a concern. If his combine is confirming all the attributes that are known he will be a top 10 pick.
I think he can be a guy in the mold of Brady and Mahommes in that they make others around them better because they have a voracious appetite to win and be the best.
You see some of McCarthys plays and he looks like he’ll be a great NFL player. But the sample size of “qualified” plays (which can be used to project his NFL performance - eg not passes against the Bowling Greens of the world) are so small.
So many risks but I strongly feel that Schoen needs to bite the bullet and pick a QB at 6.
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In comment 16404145 Eric from BBI said:
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we're going to spend a couple of months arguing over the QBs.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
This is exactly why I am opposed to giving up assets to move up.
Certainly a valid reason.
On the flip side, if your organization is convinced one player can turn your entire team around...
In that case, you had better be right. Imagine how Panther fans feel right now. They could have stayed put at #9 last year, drafted Jalen Carter, kept DJ Moore and be in position to draft Caleb or Maye this year.
But who is going to mentor Penix? Jones?
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
I think this QB class will have more than one QB that is a impact player
It's a crapshoot.
I think if you take that view it's great for the Giants, because there will definitely be a quarterback there at 6 worth taking.
Do all due diligence scouting/evaluation, determine which are thought to be the top candidates, then take someone else.
Or, if it's all a crapshoot, don't bother with the scouting/evaluation.
That's pretty much been the Giants' philosophy that past ten years
I think that's a point being missed. If the Giants draft Nabers or Odunze, what good is that doing them? That'll just be another wasted player.
Like in 2018, this is the time to set the direction. They eschewed the opportunity then, and I expect them to do the same now.
This is disheartening. The number of years none of the QBs develop into plus starters is unreal.
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... http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb - ( New Window )
Ooopha. I knew it was bad but... wow
Ask yourself why it's so bad. Ask yourself why other positions don't bust at the insanely high rate QBs bust at.
Perhaps the whole team game thing impacts the QB more than some want to believe. If it was so simple, that all you need to do is "find the right QB and everything else falls into place" you wouldn't see so many talented and highly regarded QBs fail at the NFL level.
Bad teams that draft talented QBs and stay bad ruin talented QBs. Didn't draft the right OL? Your QB faces an uphill battle. Didn't build a defense? Your QB aint winning a fucking thing. Didn't add good WRs? Good luck with that.
The roster matters.
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In comment 16404150 Eric from BBI said:
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... http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb - ( New Window )
Ooopha. I knew it was bad but... wow
Ask yourself why it's so bad. Ask yourself why other positions don't bust at the insanely high rate QBs bust at.
Perhaps the whole team game thing impacts the QB more than some want to believe. If it was so simple, that all you need to do is "find the right QB and everything else falls into place" you wouldn't see so many talented and highly regarded QBs fail at the NFL level.
Bad teams that draft talented QBs and stay bad ruin talented QBs. Didn't draft the right OL? Your QB faces an uphill battle. Didn't build a defense? Your QB aint winning a fucking thing. Didn't add good WRs? Good luck with that.
The roster matters.
Totally agree
Schoen has been good at preparing multiple contingencies.
He needs to work at this biggest of all projects, to change the trajectory of the organization.
If he doesn't, and Jones flames out, he could be out too.
what makes you say this ?
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In comment 16404150 Eric from BBI said:
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... http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb - ( New Window )
Ooopha. I knew it was bad but... wow
Ask yourself why it's so bad. Ask yourself why other positions don't bust at the insanely high rate QBs bust at.
Perhaps the whole team game thing impacts the QB more than some want to believe. If it was so simple, that all you need to do is "find the right QB and everything else falls into place" you wouldn't see so many talented and highly regarded QBs fail at the NFL level.
Bad teams that draft talented QBs and stay bad ruin talented QBs. Didn't draft the right OL? Your QB faces an uphill battle. Didn't build a defense? Your QB aint winning a fucking thing. Didn't add good WRs? Good luck with that.
The roster matters.
I agree, 100%. And it's not just roster, health of said roster, system and coaching plus the match they have with said QB.
Dak started his rookie year with three AP OL. He had a PB'er in Witten in TE. Wentz had a outstanding OL and then some really good skill talent. So good that the back up QB winds up winning the SB MVP.
Hurts has had one of if not the best OL in the league. Three AP/PB players. Good TE and a star at WR with a really good number 2.
I think all those QB's would have fared quite differently on the Giants.
The question I have is if Jones is gone in 2025 for what ever reason who do we have waiting in the wings to take over?
And who ever it is I am not saying they would be an improvement but at least a game manager which at least frees up cap space.
I could see that guy being Pratt or Rattler. Giant may essentially just try to find a warm body lower in the draft and at least keep the fan base from imploding.
Dak started his rookie year with three AP OL. He had a PB'er in Witten in TE. Wentz had a outstanding OL and then some really good skill talent. So good that the back up QB winds up winning the SB MVP.
Hurts has had one of if not the best OL in the league. Three AP/PB players. Good TE and a star at WR with a really good number 2.
I think all those QB's would have fared quite differently on the Giants.
I agree 100%. Throwing a rookie QB into the Giants offensive shit show will be a disaster. We won’t have a lot of cap space to get the positions we need to help a young QB. For whatever reason, the Giants don’t use the cap effectively to spread out costs and sign players like other teams. It seems like no matter how bad we are we are always in cap trouble. If you draft a QB we have to deal with Jones contract. Then where are we going to find talent to help the young QB? The same pattern of bargain Wrs, RBs and TEs that have not worked.
If you are going to take a QB and you feel like there is a clear #1 then you have to trade picks to get him. Don’t wait and don’t take the best of what’s available.
I personally don’t think any QB can have success on the Giants until they improve the skill positions and OL. Which is basically 8-9 players on O. We have Thomas and an injury prone Robinson and not much else. JMS was up and down, the rest of the OL is meh, our WRs are terrible. TEs didn’t play well last year. You’re asking a very tall task of a rookie QB and if you trade away multiple picks to get the QB where is the rest of the improvement on the O coming from?
I just don’t see a rookie QB as a good investment this year unless their #1 falls to 6 which I doubt.
If we pick Penix it better be after 1-2 trade downs
Here is the list of the top 20 defenses in college football last season.
Penix played five games against these teams, including the conference championship, playoff semifinal, and national championship game. His average in these five huge games was 26/41, 328 yards, 8.0 YPA, 2 TDs/1 INT.
What else do you want?
Here is the list of the top 20 defenses in college football last season.
Penix played five games against these teams, including the conference championship, playoff semifinal, and national championship game. His average in these five huge games was 26/41, 328 yards, 8.0 YPA, 2 TDs/1 INT.
What else do you want?
I like Pennix a lot, but a pocket passer with an injury history paired with our inability to put an even average offensive line seems like a match made in hell.
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Just remember we have 2 QB's in this draft with inflated stats due to historically bad defenses in their conference, and those stats should be ignored, and instead focus on traits, thats what matters
Isn't it 3 QB's (Williams, Penix, Nix) whose stats are inflated playing in the Pac 12? On top of that, Daniels had the luxury of throwing to two 1st round quality receivers in Nabers and Thomas. Which leaves on McCarthy and Maye as QB prospects with uninflated stats.
Playing with good WR’s is now “inflated stats”? WTF? And sure, JJ had such a shit roster.
Joe Burrow had better WR’s at LSU than Daniels did, CJ Stroud had Wilson and Olave, does that mean they’ll be failed NFL QB’s too? Make it stop.
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Penix and Nix have inflated stats from playing in the Pac-12, but Williams somehow doesn't? Did the opponents only play good defense against USC? And what great defenses did Drake Maye play against?
Here is the list of the top 20 defenses in college football last season.
Penix played five games against these teams, including the conference championship, playoff semifinal, and national championship game. His average in these five huge games was 26/41, 328 yards, 8.0 YPA, 2 TDs/1 INT.
What else do you want?
I like Pennix a lot, but a pocket passer with an injury history paired with our inability to put an even average offensive line seems like a match made in hell.
Draft a QB that can actually run an offense and watch the offensive line improve by leaps and bounds.
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not even sure where anyone can dispute this.
Dak started his rookie year with three AP OL. He had a PB'er in Witten in TE. Wentz had a outstanding OL and then some really good skill talent. So good that the back up QB winds up winning the SB MVP.
Hurts has had one of if not the best OL in the league. Three AP/PB players. Good TE and a star at WR with a really good number 2.
I think all those QB's would have fared quite differently on the Giants.
I agree 100%. Throwing a rookie QB into the Giants offensive shit show will be a disaster. We won’t have a lot of cap space to get the positions we need to help a young QB. For whatever reason, the Giants don’t use the cap effectively to spread out costs and sign players like other teams. It seems like no matter how bad we are we are always in cap trouble. If you draft a QB we have to deal with Jones contract. Then where are we going to find talent to help the young QB? The same pattern of bargain Wrs, RBs and TEs that have not worked.
If you are going to take a QB and you feel like there is a clear #1 then you have to trade picks to get him. Don’t wait and don’t take the best of what’s available.
I personally don’t think any QB can have success on the Giants until they improve the skill positions and OL. Which is basically 8-9 players on O. We have Thomas and an injury prone Robinson and not much else. JMS was up and down, the rest of the OL is meh, our WRs are terrible. TEs didn’t play well last year. You’re asking a very tall task of a rookie QB and if you trade away multiple picks to get the QB where is the rest of the improvement on the O coming from?
I just don’t see a rookie QB as a good investment this year unless their #1 falls to 6 which I doubt.
Im on board with SY in believing a rookie first round pick qb would be better off starting on the bench with how our team is right now. Let Daniel Jones play, hopefully he does well enough to garner something in a trade before the deadline. If not, then at least Jones and his 47 million dollar salary for the year bought the rookie some time to learn and adapt, maybe the offensive line starts to gel finally with new coach and rookie is ready to go at the same time after 4-8 games? That would be ideal for any rookie QB we could draft imo.
Or how 6 all pro offensive players took an average QB to a SB this year.
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Amazing how some can't grasp that an elite QB can cover a lot of sins on the OL.
Or how 6 all pro offensive players took an average QB to a SB this year.
Hmm what is harder to get 5 all pro offensive players and a bunch on defense too or one elite qb? Both sound hard but I'll take my chances on qbs this year..the 49ers traded 3 1sts for Trey Lance, at least if we swung and missed it wouldn't cost us anything more than this year's 1st. Imagine if we hit a homerun tho? We could finally be good again!
I'd rather have an elite QB that doesn't need to propped up with studs all over.
Such an easy concept.
We need a legit QB. We don't have one. It's the most important position in sports & we're spinning our wheels with Jones.
But yes, I get you're a card carrying member of the cult known as the DJFC so ya know, let's ride with that fraud for the next decade.
We need a legit QB. We don't have one. It's the most important position in sports & we're spinning our wheels with Jones.
But yes, I get you're a card carrying member of the cult known as the DJFC so ya know, let's ride with that fraud for the next decade.
See this how stupid you are. I’ve been panning the giants to lose games all year so they could get s top pick to draft either Williams, Maye, or Daniels.
But keep making up shit as if you know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Such an easy concept.
No, you misunderstood me. I'm saying should we take a shot since we are within reach or just keep trying to add like 10 more all pros to the team? It's hard to hit on other positions too, and we won't have the cap room to sign any all pros so I'd say it would be best to take a shot at getting an elite qb, even if the odds are 25% or less it's worth it imo. I think the top 4 all have the potential to be elite. One or two will be within reach.
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Elite QBs grow on trees.
Such an easy concept.
No, you misunderstood me. I'm saying should we take a shot since we are within reach or just keep trying to add like 10 more all pros to the team? It's hard to hit on other positions too, and we won't have the cap room to sign any all pros so I'd say it would be best to take a shot at getting an elite qb, even if the odds are 25% or less it's worth it imo. I think the top 4 all have the potential to be elite. One or two will be within reach.
I’m more than ok taking a QB at 6. But if the giants don’t love one there… get some top tier talent. Especially on offense.
But there will be very good players available at 6. They also have a chance to add 4 impact players in the top70 and we all know this team is more thwn 1 player away.
My Dream is to find a way to Daniels and have him be the best veraion of whay he can be. The celing on him is so freaking high. Williams will struggle to be as good as ge is being billed to be and everyone will want to tear him down.
I am all for giving away a 2025 1st but want retain our picks this year. Draft a WR and multiple pieces on the lines. Let Jones play trying to keep him on the pine. Maybe he plays well enough you can get a pick for him to help offset the missing 1st rounder.
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In comment 16404782 JT039 said:
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Elite QBs grow on trees.
Such an easy concept.
No, you misunderstood me. I'm saying should we take a shot since we are within reach or just keep trying to add like 10 more all pros to the team? It's hard to hit on other positions too, and we won't have the cap room to sign any all pros so I'd say it would be best to take a shot at getting an elite qb, even if the odds are 25% or less it's worth it imo. I think the top 4 all have the potential to be elite. One or two will be within reach.
I’m more than ok taking a QB at 6. But if the giants don’t love one there… get some top tier talent. Especially on offense.
What about if MHJ goes top 3 and one is there at 4 I'd say we trade up to 4 in that case. Or if MHJ goes to the cards and they like the 4th QB available then I would trade up to 5 to avoid getting jumped. I think we will most likely have to trade up, hopefully not higher than 4, to secure a QB even if it's JJM I think the safest route would be to jump up to 5 for him.
But there will be very good players available at 6. They also have a chance to add 4 impact players in the top70 and we all know this team is more thwn 1 player away.
My Dream is to find a way to Daniels and have him be the best veraion of whay he can be. The celing on him is so freaking high. Williams will struggle to be as good as ge is being billed to be and everyone will want to tear him down.
I am all for giving away a 2025 1st but want retain our picks this year. Draft a WR and multiple pieces on the lines. Let Jones play trying to keep him on the pine. Maybe he plays well enough you can get a pick for him to help offset the missing 1st rounder.
Agreed, some of those meaningless wins really hurt but it did help Daboll and team comradry. Beating the snot out of the Eagles was worth dropping one slot behind the Chargers imo. We will most likely have to make a slight trade up even if they think JJM is worthy. And I'm all for it.
I think if you take that view it's great for the Giants, because there will definitely be a quarterback there at 6 worth taking.
Do you actually look at the full picture or just stats. Do you compare the rosters they had to work with? Experience/age in college. To say this guy wasn’t a better qb is insane and just a reckless statement. Based off what? The stats because the 2 guys you mentioned have been in college for 62 years and landed in perfect spots. Penix behind a good line with 3 nfl WRs. The guy is a statue who can’t move and can’t take a hit. The chuck and duck crap penix does doesn’t work in the nfl. I can’t say it again and again. Wider hashes create more space for him to loft balls under pressure. If you watch him play so many of those throws aren’t there in the nfl and they should have been picked in college. Nix is a career backup. It’s so obvious. Maye has insane upside. He played behind a crappy line with zero talent. I suggest you watch the games again and maybe take into consideration the talent on the rosters they played with.
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In comment 16404756 Go Terps said:
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Penix and Nix have inflated stats from playing in the Pac-12, but Williams somehow doesn't? Did the opponents only play good defense against USC? And what great defenses did Drake Maye play against?
Here is the list of the top 20 defenses in college football last season.
Penix played five games against these teams, including the conference championship, playoff semifinal, and national championship game. His average in these five huge games was 26/41, 328 yards, 8.0 YPA, 2 TDs/1 INT.
What else do you want?
I like Pennix a lot, but a pocket passer with an injury history paired with our inability to put an even average offensive line seems like a match made in hell.
Draft a QB that can actually run an offense and watch the offensive line improve by leaps and bounds.
I really disagree with this. The OL has significant issues that are independent of the QB as is evidenced by the fact that the same problems occurred with all 3 QBs this year.
However, I do agree on Penix completely.
I'll also say you don't not draft a QB because current deficiencies would limit that QB otherwise you'd never draft a Qb until all of the pieces are in place for that QB to succeed. You draft a QB for the future.
Wow now I’ve heard it all. Penix has a better arm than Eli manning and Kerry Collins
The worst thing, that happened for my conclusion is, that the Cardinals are at 4. They dont necessarily need a QB and therefore are a sure target for other teams to trade down and open a spot for the QB that drops out of the Top 3. (or even JJ Mccarthy, who knows). There are teams not so far away, that will look to draft a qb in this draft. Im looking at the Vikings, the Broncos, the Raiders, the Saints, the Seahawks, heck even the Falcons i can see either trading up for a QB. They could probably offer the best package aswell, but i think they will look at a vet qb instead).
If the Cardinals for some reason pass on trading away from 4 if theres a QB left, and even select another non-qb, i can see the Chargers trade down with said teams, as they have Herbert. Of course they can just pick the guy they need instead, but i dont think itll be a QB.
The Chargers probably get their guy later in the draft aswell, so.
I see close to no chance at drafting a popular QB at 6, like at all.
So we either trade up (which im not a fan of) or we pick another stud at 6. Preferably one of those WRs
Rome at 6, trade back into mid first or sit tight in 2nd and take Penix.
Tyrod Taylor ( 13 year veteran who is constantly injured)
Tommy DeVito (1 year undrafted QB, who was injured in his rookie season)
Do the Giants need to continue with a drafted QB. who has been injured throughout his college career?
Absolutely not! Avoid Penix!!