Open to Daniels/Maye at 6 if they drop but assuming the top 3 QBs are taken, Penix at 6 or a trade down/up as needed. I'm no scout but he just looks like he's a dominant passer who will put points on the board. He can shuffle around to avoid pressure well enough but he gets the ball out quick (Jones biggest weakness). His upside looks through the roof.
I've heard Tua comps but to me I see more Herbert than Tua. I think Penix can really stress defenses with his arm and willingness to trust it.
If they are willing to risk it based on intel, a small trade down?
I know there are a million opinions out there but watching the top QBs he's the guy I think can drive peak offense.
Take Penix and let the best man win between him and Jones in camp (if Jones is ready).
He worries me alone based on his injury history. Those other factors also make him a MAJOR risk to be taken in Round 1.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
^This. Fifty percent of first-round QBs bust. It's definitely a crapshoot. But I still don't want Penix. His injury history is preclusive IMO. We already have one injury-riddled QB. Why add another?
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb - ( New Window )
Quote:
we're going to spend a couple of months arguing over the QBs.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
^This. Fifty percent of first-round QBs bust. It's definitely a crapshoot. But I still don't want Penix. His injury history is preclusive IMO. We already have one injury-riddled QB. Why add another?
I'm not arguing one way or the other. We've drafted guys who never got hurt in college (EVER) and become injury prone.
Penix might become an NFL ironman.
The guy is the best pure passer in this class imv. We all know that is no guarantee of success at the next level, but it is a great place to start. He is not as mobile as most of the other top QBs, but he has pocket awareness and he can move around to avoid pressure.
He did not face top competition from defenses in the Pac-12 and that is something to think about. If I am a GM I am putting a lot on what he can diagnose on the board and how quickly he can do it. I think if he can stay healthy he can certainly be a good (not great) NFL starter.
I think when you draft a QB there has to be something they can do that jumps off the page. To me with Penix, it is his quick release, strong arm and accuracy from the pocket. He may buts, but I think some arm chair GMs never watched Penix play outside the NC against Michigan and are drawing a lot of conclusions from that single game.
Before we target a QB
Watching Taylor run the offense and his willingness to go downfield changed the Giants, they were in all those games.
Before we target a QB
You're not living in the real world.
The Giants don't have the stability that the Chiefs and Ravens do. Schoen and Daboll don't have the luxury of time. The fanbase is done with Jones.
You can't see it because you don't think Jones is the problem. We get it.
That's the reality.
Before we target a QB
Do quarterbacks bust at a higher rate than other positions?
I can think of several top 10 WRs and offensive linemen that have busted as well.
If a QB you like is available at 6 you have to take the guy.
I can think of several top 10 WRs and offensive linemen that have busted as well.
Don't even need to look at any other team than the Giants to find them, either.
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Rather fix OL, get a top WR and strengthen the defense.....
Before we target a QB
Do quarterbacks bust at a higher rate than other positions?
I can think of several top 10 WRs and offensive linemen that have busted as well.
If a QB you like is available at 6 you have to take the guy.
This.
Somehow George missed Evan Neal and Kadarius Toney.
Before we target a QB
I learned my lesson in 2004 when I was a staunch Robert Gallery supporter.
Get the right QB and the rest follows. We don't have the right QB now, so that is clearly Job 1. All the rest is smoke.
No one knows what will happen but Penix has major risk factors.
1) With the 6th and 39th overall picks to go along with the 47th overall pick from Seattle, this is a year in which the Giants have the draft capital that they hopefully won't have in 2025 and 2026. If they were to spend assets on fixing the OL, getting a top WR, and strengthening the defense (as you say), that could put them squarely in the land of mediocrity: not good enough to go deep in the playoffs, but too good to be drafting within striking range of the top QB prospects.
2) This is a year in which there appears to be severak appealing QB prospects. No guarantee that 2025 and/or 2026 will offer up as many worthwhile options to choose from.
3) With Jones in year two of his four year deal and "uncuttable" at this time due to the nature of the contract, it's a good year for the rookie to sit and learn rather than be thrown into the fire before he's ready. Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers are four excellent examples of QBs who weren't handed the starting job until year two or three of their careers and it worked out pretty well for them and their teams. Assuming the Giants use a 1st round pick (either the 6th overall or later in round one), it still gives them another four years of team control beyond the prospect's rookie year. That's still plenty of time to take advantage of having your starting QB on his rookie contract.
p.s.--I love the idea of having both Jones and a highly regarded QB prospect under contract for the next three years. They have the salary cap room and the 2024 draft capital to make it work in a way that doesn't leave them short in terms of improving the rest of the team (as in the OL, WR, and defense needs).
You don't need 4 or 5 receivers running routes for this guy. 3 will do. 12 personnel and play action on early downs and this guy will be effective.
Before we target a QB
There appear to be 4 (count ‘em 4!) top 6 worthy QBs coming out this year. This is the year to strike.
And counting on Jones to improve & become an above avg QB is the ultimate crapshoot.
If Schoen isn’t thrilled with any of the QB’s left at 6, then trading back into the 1st to take Penix could be a great idea. I think he’s more pro-ready than most, even if his ceiling isn’t quite as high.
Either you're go after a top guy or you wait till you can.
Besides, I don't want a QB who's name one typo away from Penis. 😆
Quote:
we're going to spend a couple of months arguing over the QBs.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
^This. Fifty percent of first-round QBs bust. It's definitely a crapshoot. But I still don't want Penix. His injury history is preclusive IMO. We already have one injury-riddled QB. Why add another?
For perspective, what percentage of QBs taken in the second round never start? The third? Fourth?
Since 2015, what QBs taken after the first round have become starters? Minshew because of injuries, Hurts, Purdy, Ridder (sort of), and Levis. Hooker probably will at some point, but he was taken in the third because of an injury.
Now, how many 1st round QBs have become starters in that time? 21, though a couple of those might be losing their starting jobs.
Every once in a while there is a bad year for QBs in the first round, such as 2013, 2014, 2022. But for the most part you have a much better chance of getting a quality starting QB in the first round than in all other rounds combined.
Do all due diligence scouting/evaluation, determine which are thought to be the top candidates, then take someone else.
Or, if it's all a crapshoot, don't bother with the scouting/evaluation.
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Rather fix OL, get a top WR and strengthen the defense.....
Before we target a QB
Do quarterbacks bust at a higher rate than other positions?
I can think of several top 10 WRs and offensive linemen that have busted as well.
If a QB you like is available at 6 you have to take the guy.
Trust your scouting.
Does that one plus tool offset the medical and average athleticism/mobility to invest a high pick?
Day one? Too much of a stretch.
Day two? Maybe.
Day three? That seems more reasonable to me.
Ooopha. I knew it was bad but... wow
1. We are picking in a position where we probably don't have to give up any draft capital to get one.
2. We know we have Daniel Jones for at least 2024. He is the vet presence and he will then have pressure to perform with a rookie behind him. This is ideal for the position.
3. The rookie can learn and develop for a year if Jones plays decent and stays healthy.
4. They still have DeVito who showed he can step in and compete.
5. There are 4 QB who may actually be worth the 6th pick. ( Williams, Daniels, Maye and McCarthy )
6. We still have 3 more picks in the top 70 spots. If Schoen can hit on 2 of those and find viable starters it would go a long way to fixing this mess. WR, ER or OL would be positions I'd expect address on day 2.
It's a badge of honor! - ( New Window )
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
This is exactly why I am opposed to giving up assets to move up.
Either you're go after a top guy or you wait till you can.
Besides, I don't want a QB who's name one typo away from Penis. 😆
There was a guy named Dick Butkus who was pretty good.
His movement is suspect and he doesn't use his lower body to drive the ball. I don't know if its a result of his knee injuries but he puts it all on his arm, which he got away with in College.
I don't think he can be late on throws and get away with it in the NFL. I don't think he can get away with poor footwork in the NFL.
I do think his arm will provide positive plays and throw for a large number of yards.
My feel is he is Jameis Winston in that he is capable of passing for 4,000 yards while throwing 20-25 TDs and picks.
I don't think he is a 1st rounder or even a 2nd rounder but some QB needy team will take him top 12/15 at worst.
Quote:
we're going to spend a couple of months arguing over the QBs.
I also think someone who isn't supposed to be the best of the bunch will be the best of the bunch.
And you could put six names up there and you'd be just as likely as drawing from a hat to be right.
It's a crapshoot.
This is exactly why I am opposed to giving up assets to move up.
Certainly a valid reason.
On the flip side, if your organization is convinced one player can turn your entire team around...
I think he can be a guy in the mold of Brady and Mahommes in that they make others around them better because they have a voracious appetite to win and be the best.