Almost all qb prospects have sufficient physical abilities. The mentality makes the difference. I completely agree. Who knows how it will go but i question CW's mentality greatly, I don't feel solid about DM's mentality whereas I feel very good about JJM and JD's mentalities. Of course this isn't based on much of anything calculatable when it comes to these intangibles that are clearly more important than tangibles.
have all played in Super Bowls as number one picks during that span. Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck probably would have if not for devastating injuries. Off-the-field disasters aside, Vick was a worthy first overall pick. I still think Trevor Lawrence will be worthy of it, even if overhyped. I get your point but most of the best QBs in the league at a given time are high first round picks.
It's not simply related to IQ, I'd say it had very little to do with that. It's like street smarts vs book smarts. Football intelligence is related to myriad factors like how their mind works under pressure, how quickly they make decisions under pressure, how efficiently they can process defenses and coverages under pressure, how efficiently they can scan the field in under 2 seconds when under pressure, how resilient their minds respond to adversity, their emotional intelligence levels, their centerdness and calmness and groundedness in the eye of the storm mentally, etc. I could go on and on about these factors, but many 9.9/10 qbs with high test scores for traditional intelligence fail. It's not that simple, obviously.
in the starter would have been drafted just a wee bit higher?
Lets talk drive, desire, determination, ambition, mental toughness. That doesn't show up on film. That doesn't show up at the meat market in Indy.
That's a measurable you make behind closed doors face to face.
And by speaking to the right people who could have inside knowledge of how the prospect's mind works.
Are they book smart? Are they street smart? You want someone who's football smart and smart enough to memorize a playbook.
Hell, all these prospects can heave a football. Don't mean jack shit if you're not gonna dedicate yourself to football.
Three of the four guys I mentioned had crap to overcome.
Brees was not highly recruited by colleges despite a stellar high school run. Wound up at Indiana and despite a good careerwas not draft high. Too short, didn't have a cannon, whatever. Went to San Diego and they dicked around with him, signed Rivers , he tore up his throwing shoulder and wound up in NO, where he blossomed. Took a lot of mental fortutide to get through to that point.
Brady was a redshirt at Michigan, then two years as a backup before he got to play on a pretty regular basis. Good numbers but not great. Not a physical specimen at the combine, he went in the sixth round.
Rodgers started out at a JC becase he wasn't recruited. Too small. Got his D1 scholarship after 1 year of oustanding football. On draft day he dropped to #24 and was the show of the day. Had to sit behind Farve for 3 years before he got his moment.
Nothing was handed to any of these three on a silver platter but they all were mentally tough enough to grind it out and carve out Hall Of Fame careers.
I guess no Hall of Fame QBs were drafted before 2000 and only one has been drafted since 2005.
Go back two years and you have Peyton Manning (and McNabb, who should be in). Would Vick be in if he hadn't gone to prison? And a few more that haven't been mentioned but will likely have a shot at the Hall of Fame (barring major injury for the younger guys). Roethlisberger. Newton. Luck. Goff. Watson. Tagovailoa. Herbert. Lawrence. Even Stroud.
Most of not all the guys mentioned on this thread have / had huge talent. Of course, you would want to understand their mindset and instincts in the field though that is typically harder to measure.
or at least record tying - took 1 post to turn this into (another) DJ thread :)
It's a thread about QBs on an NFL team's fan message board.
100% of threads that fit that description will become a discussion of that team's QB. Regardless of team, regardless of fanbase, regardless of QB. 100% of threads that discuss QBs in general, on an NFL team's fan message board, will invariably and immediately become a thread that includes that team's current QB and/or their current QB outlook.
Is there something we are supposed to take away from this?
Either took a while to develop or were groomed to be a starter. But one thing is they all had talent around them when they were successful. Most of the Giants starters would be backups on any of the playoff teams and consider that Barkley is a FA it will be difficult for any QB to be successful here in the short term.
Most QBs get 2-3 years trial before they are cast off. Look what happened to Brees, they drafted his replacement when and then he had a great season, I wonder if he would have stayed in SD if he was healthy??? It’s going to take more than 2 years to improve our offensive roster without drafts and a lot of FA money. Bad OL, bad Wrs, bad TEs and No Rb. It’s a mistake to bring in a rookie QB to start right away in NY. If Jones isn’t healthy then we need to pay a Vet, pay Jones and the rookie 1st rounder. I think it’s asking a lot of a young QB. When we got Eli, we also overhauled the OL, had Tiki and brought in top level Wrs. It all has to happen to be successful.
pointed out in your post - every one of those guys was not a starter their first year. They sat and learned. That's one of the main things I keep mentioning when discussing whether the Giants should take a QB. If they draft a QB, any QB, he is not going to to be a starter at the beginning of the year, and maybe not all year if Jones says healthy. He will get to sit, learn, get stronger and see a little action to get his feet wet. It is the perfect situation for a young QB.
might include learning behind a QB that isn't afraid to throw downfield or outside the numbers to the field side, but maybe that's just splitting hairs.
RE: Is there something we are supposed to take away from this?
Did people not know that hard work, dedication and overcoming adversity were important factors in determining success?
I think this thread was trying to be deep, but it is really just generic buzz words.
Oh, and Brees didn't go to Indiana. He went to a school in Indiana called Purdue.
Here is something not so generic. Since the 2014 draft, 116 qbs have been drafted, and only one has won a super bowl (in his case 3). Not so easy finding the one and only!
Not what I'm talking about Wally.
Eli gets my vote.
It's not simply related to IQ, I'd say it had very little to do with that. It's like street smarts vs book smarts. Football intelligence is related to myriad factors like how their mind works under pressure, how quickly they make decisions under pressure, how efficiently they can process defenses and coverages under pressure, how efficiently they can scan the field in under 2 seconds when under pressure, how resilient their minds respond to adversity, their emotional intelligence levels, their centerdness and calmness and groundedness in the eye of the storm mentally, etc. I could go on and on about these factors, but many 9.9/10 qbs with high test scores for traditional intelligence fail. It's not that simple, obviously.
Eli
Phillip Rivers
Stafford
Matt Ryan
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
idk I stopped thinking about it more but all of these guys will make it.
Lets talk drive, desire, determination, ambition, mental toughness. That doesn't show up on film. That doesn't show up at the meat market in Indy.
That's a measurable you make behind closed doors face to face.
And by speaking to the right people who could have inside knowledge of how the prospect's mind works.
Are they book smart? Are they street smart? You want someone who's football smart and smart enough to memorize a playbook.
Hell, all these prospects can heave a football. Don't mean jack shit if you're not gonna dedicate yourself to football.
Three of the four guys I mentioned had crap to overcome.
Brees was not highly recruited by colleges despite a stellar high school run. Wound up at Indiana and despite a good careerwas not draft high. Too short, didn't have a cannon, whatever. Went to San Diego and they dicked around with him, signed Rivers , he tore up his throwing shoulder and wound up in NO, where he blossomed. Took a lot of mental fortutide to get through to that point.
Brady was a redshirt at Michigan, then two years as a backup before he got to play on a pretty regular basis. Good numbers but not great. Not a physical specimen at the combine, he went in the sixth round.
Rodgers started out at a JC becase he wasn't recruited. Too small. Got his D1 scholarship after 1 year of oustanding football. On draft day he dropped to #24 and was the show of the day. Had to sit behind Farve for 3 years before he got his moment.
Nothing was handed to any of these three on a silver platter but they all were mentally tough enough to grind it out and carve out Hall Of Fame careers.
All the guys I listed were draft #10 or lower. No need to wonder. That's why.
Eli
Phillip Rivers
Stafford
Matt Ryan
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
idk I stopped thinking about it more but all of these guys will make it.
Except for Ben and Lamar, they were all high 1st round picks.
And I did specify Cream Of The Crop. HOF locks.
I guess no Hall of Fame QBs were drafted before 2000 and only one has been drafted since 2005.
Go back two years and you have Peyton Manning (and McNabb, who should be in). Would Vick be in if he hadn't gone to prison? And a few more that haven't been mentioned but will likely have a shot at the Hall of Fame (barring major injury for the younger guys). Roethlisberger. Newton. Luck. Goff. Watson. Tagovailoa. Herbert. Lawrence. Even Stroud.
It's a thread about QBs on an NFL team's fan message board.
100% of threads that fit that description will become a discussion of that team's QB. Regardless of team, regardless of fanbase, regardless of QB. 100% of threads that discuss QBs in general, on an NFL team's fan message board, will invariably and immediately become a thread that includes that team's current QB and/or their current QB outlook.
I think this thread was trying to be deep, but it is really just generic buzz words.
Oh, and Brees didn't go to Indiana. He went to a school in Indiana called Purdue.
Most QBs get 2-3 years trial before they are cast off. Look what happened to Brees, they drafted his replacement when and then he had a great season, I wonder if he would have stayed in SD if he was healthy??? It’s going to take more than 2 years to improve our offensive roster without drafts and a lot of FA money. Bad OL, bad Wrs, bad TEs and No Rb. It’s a mistake to bring in a rookie QB to start right away in NY. If Jones isn’t healthy then we need to pay a Vet, pay Jones and the rookie 1st rounder. I think it’s asking a lot of a young QB. When we got Eli, we also overhauled the OL, had Tiki and brought in top level Wrs. It all has to happen to be successful.
I think this thread was trying to be deep, but it is really just generic buzz words.
Oh, and Brees didn't go to Indiana. He went to a school in Indiana called Purdue.
Here is something not so generic. Since the 2014 draft, 116 qbs have been drafted, and only one has won a super bowl (in his case 3). Not so easy finding the one and only!