According to NFL insider Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, Caleb Williams has decided not to hire an agent as he begins his NFL career. Instead, he is planning to represent himself.
Pretty bold to see a rookie planning to represent himself.
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Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
Yup. Not sure why some think Caleb can do no wrong. There’s just so much off about him. Really unappealing player off the field, basically creating what could be insurmountable pressure for himself on it the field.
Being the face of an NFL franchise is a juggling act of many things, brains, personality, character, etc.
It ain’t all just talent.
This is stupid as shit.
Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
This guy isn't as good as Lamar.
LOL. That's perfect.
Plenty more than just the rookie contract to deal with. It's so short-sighted.
But at least that lawyer has an in-depth knowledge of the law and probably experience in a courtroom.
How many NFL contracts has CW negotiated? Is he an expert on NFL contract language? It's not just about the money.
Yes and no. There are small negotiation points. However, agents provide way more than just the ability to negotiate a contract.
Length is static, Amount is capped /w a built in escalator. The tricky part is bonus payment language and injury fine print.
Largely, yes, per the CBA. But I think it's just the pain in the ass factor and lack of expertise in managing the contract.
You dont know that about his draft day, could have been better. As a player with production in the league, that made sense to me the second time around. But of course, the exception doesn’t disprove the rule so this isn’t really a big endorsement of the strategy before playing a down in the league. Then add in all the other rumors on top of it.
All the nay sayers are going to ignore and pretend that is an alternate reality.
Eric, I am having trouble finding that comment by Sy here or on X. What was the mention, or can you provide a link? Much appreciated.
Then hire an agent for all the promotional side gigs?
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this with what Sy just posted about what his teammates said after the season.
Eric, I am having trouble finding that comment by Sy here or on X. What was the mention, or can you provide a link? Much appreciated.
It's in the Sy thread on Williams... it's his most recent post.
Either way, seems like a poor decision. Sometimes you need someone to tell you hard truths. Wanting to avoid that is a sign of immaturity.
Are you really using Lamar Jackson as an argument in your defense of not hiring an agent? That was a shit show.
You know who else represented himself and thought he had all the answers? Ereck Flowers. Again, agents do way more than just negotiate a contract. Maybe if Flowers had an agewnt besides his dad, he would have surrounded himself with people who knew what it takes to succeed in the NFL. Maybe he could have hooked up with other NFL players instead of training on his own. The contract negotiation is such a small piece of what is offered. All this shows is that he us ignorant.
This. The contract is preset. I don’t think it’s a red flag
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Because with the rookie contract caps the contracts are almost prewritten with nothing to haggle over. Williams saves the agent fee now and presumably will get one for the second contract
This. The contract is preset. I don’t think it’s a red flag
It's ok. It's another opportunity to have an illogical spasm of outrage.
Do any rookies really hold out anymore?
It's not like the olden days.
The agent thing I wouldn't sweat. His father owns a pretty reputable sports performance center, so he presumably has the resources for the combine/draft preparation lined up.
The slotting makes the rookie deal extremely turnkey from a commercial perspective. It's the type of agreement you need a commercial attorney, which will cost 10s of thousands of dollars, not 5% to get right.
If he's an asshole whose teammates hate him, there's only so much charm offensive an agent can pull.
Do any rookies really hold out anymore?
The only variable in recent years that's caused friction is agreeing upon offset limits.
The agent thing I wouldn't sweat. His father owns a pretty reputable sports performance center, so he presumably has the resources for the combine/draft preparation lined up.
The slotting makes the rookie deal extremely turnkey from a commercial perspective. It's the type of agreement you need a commercial attorney, which will cost 10s of thousands of dollars, not 5% to get right.
If he's an asshole whose teammates hate him, there's only so much charm offensive an agent can pull.
The second paragraph is important, his combine situation is already set. He also knows he’s going in the top 3 with 97% percent certainty, so there’s not much draft navigation that he needs to do. Lamar was different because his mom had no experience doing anything of the sort and he wasn’t a top 3 projected pick.
Do any rookies really hold out anymore?
It's not like the olden days.
Iirc, Bosas took a while to get done because he wanted upfront payment on a larger sum than normal. Not a huge deal for a DE but a potential big pain in the ass for your new starting QB who shouldn’t really be missing any team activities.
Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
uhhhh, Lamar got 5 years, 260
because the agent/player relationship has been the norm for the last 100 years, when someone goes outside the box, its a "red flag"
he'll do just fine
Don't forget Manhattan
Wow. JJ is rising to your top 3 now? Interesting.
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would he still have an attorney review the contract? If so, then not having an agent is not really a big deal at this stage.
because the agent/player relationship has been the norm for the last 100 years, when someone goes outside the box, its a "red flag"
he'll do just fine
These are just words. Whatever we as fans think shouldn’t matter is irrelevant. There have been off field rumors about Caleb for well over a year now and every time I convince myself that ehh, probably doesn’t matter another one pops up and it’s impossible to ignore the pattern. Maybe he bucks the trend and does everything perfectly all by himself but the deck is stack against him. And now he’s asking an NFL team to just trust him with their top pick. To completely ignore this is strange. And odds are he won’t live up to his draft status just like anyone else taken #1, so there’s that as well.
You're a rookie draftee right out of college. Across the table are professional negotiators who've done more NFL contracts than they can count. Their job is to get the most out of you for the least money — within the strictures of the CBA.
Facing them, you have never negotiated anything like this deal. The stakes for you are very high; if you mess this up, you can really hurt your future income and opportunities.
If you really feel you shouldn't be paying an agent a percentage for a deal that's pre-slotted, you can negotiate something with your reps to reduce commission on the predetermined portion of your deal, or to limit commission to the negotiable parts of the deal.
I understand why someone in Williams' position would think "What am I paying all that money for?" but in a way it's like insurance. Your agent is there to make sure you don't get screwed. Maybe you don't need him, but when you need him, you REALLY need him.
You're a rookie draftee right out of college. Across the table are professional negotiators who've done more NFL contracts than they can count. Their job is to get the most out of you for the least money — within the strictures of the CBA.
Facing them, you have never negotiated anything like this deal. The stakes for you are very high; if you mess this up, you can really hurt your future income and opportunities.
If you really feel you shouldn't be paying an agent a percentage for a deal that's pre-slotted, you can negotiate something with your reps to reduce commission on the predetermined portion of your deal, or to limit commission to the negotiable parts of the deal.
I understand why someone in Williams' position would think "What am I paying all that money for?" but in a way it's like insurance. Your agent is there to make sure you don't get screwed. Maybe you don't need him, but when you need him, you REALLY need him.
If nothing gets signed, ultimately everybody loses
Who wants that?
I was just listening to him and Jim Miller, and he said not having an agent for your rookie deal is not a big deal (to him). But where it might get tricky is not having an agent who can advocate for you and interact with other teams...
Not saying THAT, but aren't these rookie deals pretty much set on a descending scale?
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waiting for the poster who says this isn't a big deal.
Not saying THAT, but aren't these rookie deals pretty much set on a descending scale?
Sorry, saw my questioon was answered by a few. I still dont see it as a huge deal given his father's resources which I did not know about
I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
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I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
What is the "haul" you see the Commies giving up to move up one draft spot? Maye and CW are very closely rated as of right now. If it were a 1 QB draft, sure.
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In comment 16404566 Sy'56 said:
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I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
What is the "haul" you see the Commies giving up to move up one draft spot? Maye and CW are very closely rated as of right now. If it were a 1 QB draft, sure.
If Josh Harris and Co see him as the guy and believe it's a 1qb draft I think they would trade 2 1sts and 2 2nds for the rights to Caleb Williams
The trade chart is much different now, especially when it comes to QBs and many believe CW is a truly generational talent a prospect up on the level of Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, beyond Eli Manning status. I don't agree, but if the Commies really are sold on him I could see them making a trade like that.
You're a rookie draftee right out of college. Across the table are professional negotiators who've done more NFL contracts than they can count. Their job is to get the most out of you for the least money — within the strictures of the CBA.
Facing them, you have never negotiated anything like this deal. The stakes for you are very high; if you mess this up, you can really hurt your future income and opportunities.
If you really feel you shouldn't be paying an agent a percentage for a deal that's pre-slotted, you can negotiate something with your reps to reduce commission on the predetermined portion of your deal, or to limit commission to the negotiable parts of the deal.
I understand why someone in Williams' position would think "What am I paying all that money for?" but in a way it's like insurance. Your agent is there to make sure you don't get screwed. Maybe you don't need him, but when you need him, you REALLY need him.
On the other hand, is a team really going to draft a guy in the top 5 and then go into the negotiation and say "Hey, this kid doesn't have an agent! Let's f*ck him over to save some money!!!"
He is not a QB I would be excited about the Giants drafting before this news.
He (or his advisors) may well prefer Washington or another team, and is floating this to force Chicago to trade the pick. There's nothing preventing CW from getting an agent after the draft.
But at least he dresses well...
Seems like he has a family that's pretty informed on what's coming next for him.
If he and his family hire an attorney to help with the negotiations, I don't there's any risk he gets screwed. The parameters of the deal are pre-determined.
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The Giants gave up less to trade up 3 spots to one (yes, they tech traded draft picks) for a much higher rated QB prospect in Eli.
The trade chart is much different now, especially when it comes to QBs and many believe CW is a truly generational talent a prospect up on the level of Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, beyond Eli Manning status. I don't agree, but if the Commies really are sold on him I could see them making a trade like that.
Again, you are talking about 3 very high picks to move up one spot. I have not read where CW jas clearly established himself as QB 1. Unless he absolutely blows away his pro day and aces his Wonderlic, that os simply too much to give up to move up one spot when you have another highly tputed prospect, the Heisman trophy winner who had a much better year and a national champion who has thrown 10 interceptions vs 40 or eo TDs and had a nearly 70% completion percentage.
No way am I giving my top two picks in the next 2 drafts to pick CW.
Exactly! It sure would be nice to know what his thought process is. So instead of throwing him under the bus why don’t you try and find out then you can make an intelligent post
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In comment 16404680 NormanAllen_95 said:
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The Giants gave up less to trade up 3 spots to one (yes, they tech traded draft picks) for a much higher rated QB prospect in Eli.
The trade chart is much different now, especially when it comes to QBs and many believe CW is a truly generational talent a prospect up on the level of Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, beyond Eli Manning status. I don't agree, but if the Commies really are sold on him I could see them making a trade like that.
Again, you are talking about 3 very high picks to move up one spot. I have not read where CW jas clearly established himself as QB 1. Unless he absolutely blows away his pro day and aces his Wonderlic, that os simply too much to give up to move up one spot when you have another highly tputed prospect, the Heisman trophy winner who had a much better year and a national champion who has thrown 10 interceptions vs 40 or eo TDs and had a nearly 70% completion percentage.
No way am I giving my top two picks in the next 2 drafts to pick CW.
I would never. I just have a feeling Washington might be totally enamored with him.
What did Moss say?
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I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
If he is the QB - then yes you could trade down. But no way should they trade down if QB1 is a projected superstar. The #1 pick doesn't have to be CW.
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In comment 16404566 Sy'56 said:
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I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
If he is the QB - then yes you could trade down. But no way should they trade down if QB1 is a projected superstar. The #1 pick doesn't have to be CW.
Well, I think GMs discuss who their projected target is when trading up they have pretty solid communication. Washington would tell Poles they are trading up for CW.
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In comment 16404566 Sy'56 said:
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I've been afraid to say this for fear of ridicule and needless argument, but I'm starting to feel the same. If I was Ryan Poles I would sure as hell trade down, capitalizing on the CW hype while avoiding a boom or bust prospect. A trade down with the Commies would make the most sense, and I bet they'd trade a historic haul to move up one slot. Then the Bears would have their choice of MHJ, JD, DM, JJM or another trade down. Seems like the smartest move to me. If the Giants were in the Bears position I would trade down to 2 and select Jayden Daniels.
If he is the QB - then yes you could trade down. But no way should they trade down if QB1 is a projected superstar. The #1 pick doesn't have to be CW.
And if they have concerns about CW based on his height, play against better defenses, fumbles and his mind trading down to 2 ensures they get their pick of whoever they have ranked on the samr tier.
How? Rookie contracts are determined by draft slot, so why give an agent 15% to do nothing?
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Seems like a disaster of a move, then again it’s not my money
How? Rookie contracts are determined by draft slot, so why give an agent 15% to do nothing?
If that’s all it is why aren’t the rest opting out of agents? And there’s no hard rule on %, that’s a negotiated fee.
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I was willing to be open minded about the kid, but the quote from Miller Moss and this no agent thing out of the gate...could be a real headache.
What did Moss say?
Moss after winning the bowl game:
“It’s a good positive moment. I still think more so for the team than me personally,” Moss said. “These six weeks since UCLA weren’t about any individual. They were about us, the people who wanted to be here and play this game and wanted to come together.”
Williams final game was UCLA
Everyone knows Williams is a highly regarded prospect, but to me, if he was anything less than an asshole teammate and poor leader, Moss doesn't take a shot at him there out of the blue.
for the win!
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In comment 16404764 ryanmkeane said:
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Seems like a disaster of a move, then again it’s not my money
How? Rookie contracts are determined by draft slot, so why give an agent 15% to do nothing?
If that’s all it is why aren’t the rest opting out of agents? And there’s no hard rule on %, that’s a negotiated fee.
Sure, but that’s the general number, if anything, it would be more. As to why more players don’t do it, good question. Agents also line up and negotiate sponsorships, but given how Williams had one of, if not the highest NIL’s in CFB, my guess is he’s pretty good there too.
But at least he dresses well...
Competing with Cam Newton there.
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Incoming in 3...2...
Don't forget Manhattan
It’s the same guy. And he was FranchiseQB before Producer. Keeps getting banned and then thinks he’s slick coming back as yet another annoying version
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In comment 16404451 IchabodGiant said:
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Incoming in 3...2...
Don't forget Manhattan
It’s the same guy. And he was FranchiseQB before Producer. Keeps getting banned and then thinks he’s slick coming back as yet another annoying version
This is really a thing I guess? I saw on another thread the site owner, Eric, is even aware of it.
The guy sounds like he has no one to talk to given how often he repeats himself. Very odd form of release.
In my very limited exposure to athletes my rough understanding is the agency is helping with marketing, contracts, and prep.
My understanding is between the end of the player's college career and the draft, the lion's share of focus and resources is combine/pro day/measurable prep. And the agency is facilitating and fronting money. With Caleb's dad being in the elite athlete training business, I imagine that's covered.
He also started working with a pretty big marketing agency (Smith/Co) in college.
So it seems the big value of an agency now would just be commercials, which you can pay T&M for and not a cut of your contract.
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In comment 16404764 ryanmkeane said:
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Seems like a disaster of a move, then again it’s not my money
How? Rookie contracts are determined by draft slot, so why give an agent 15% to do nothing?
If that’s all it is why aren’t the rest opting out of agents? And there’s no hard rule on %, that’s a negotiated fee.
The max is 3%
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In comment 16404563 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 16404451 IchabodGiant said:
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Incoming in 3...2...
Don't forget Manhattan
It’s the same guy. And he was FranchiseQB before Producer. Keeps getting banned and then thinks he’s slick coming back as yet another annoying version
This is really a thing I guess? I saw on another thread the site owner, Eric, is even aware of it.
The guy sounds like he has no one to talk to given how often he repeats himself. Very odd form of release.
It’s the exact same thing with every handle he comes back with. He thinks he’s some kind of QB guru but he’s actually an absolute dumpster fire. He’ll be banned again very soon and we’ll all get a temporary reprieve until he comes back again with his new alias
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
I have yet to hear anybody liken Caleb Williams to Luck/Lawrence hype.
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
Of course, just because I am honest about player ability versus other players it automatically means I'm a bad fan or some kind of traitor. On other social media platforms I was very early to insist Daniel Jones was inadequate and faced a lot of unhinged vitriol. And here we are 3 years later, and almost the whole community has come around. I'm sorry it bothers you that Williams is the best talent in this draft. I can't do anything about it. If I'm wrong, he won't go first. But he will. And you already know it.
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In comment 16404831 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
I have yet to hear anybody liken Caleb Williams to Luck/Lawrence hype.
You are wrong. I have posted three analyses by committed evaluators, and they just about put him in that class. Waldman, Klatt, PFF draft stock exchange. And I would make it four and say Daniel Jeremiah. Just because you don't read them doesn't mean they don't exist.
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In comment 16404831 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
Of course, just because I am honest about player ability versus other players it automatically means I'm a bad fan or some kind of traitor. On other social media platforms I was very early to insist Daniel Jones was inadequate and faced a lot of unhinged vitriol. And here we are 3 years later, and almost the whole community has come around. I'm sorry it bothers you that Williams is the best talent in this draft. I can't do anything about it. If I'm wrong, he won't go first. But he will. And you already know it.
Him going first doesn't mean he is the best talent in this draft. We've all been discussing this ad nauseum. There are so many factors going into a college qb becoming an elite NFL qb--many of them intangible and practically unchartable--that it is truly a crapshoot. That's part of the fun in having differing opinions and discussing it. I can predict he will be the top qb selected while still personally thinking he isn't my top ranked qb. And it doesn't bother me that he is the projected top pick, it would bother me if I believed he was truly generational.
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In comment 16404835 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16404831 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
I have yet to hear anybody liken Caleb Williams to Luck/Lawrence hype.
You are wrong. I have posted three analyses by committed evaluators, and they just about put him in that class. Waldman, Klatt, PFF draft stock exchange. And I would make it four and say Daniel Jeremiah. Just because you don't read them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Caleb Williams
Trevor Lawrence
Joe Burrow
Drake Maye
Bryce Young
That's Klatt's top qb prospects since Andrew Luck. I think they are all a bunch of mindless parrots basically. It will be fun to watch over the next years to see what happens.
How is saving 10% to 15% to do a pro forma contract an oddball thing? Explain convincingly how it is oddball and I'll agree with you. Just because a bunch of keyboard warriors shout he's a DUMB, a FLAKE and a MORON doesn't mean there is anything to this. Isn't smart to save money for nothing? Doesn't that show he may have something "between the ears"? Don't we want a savvy player to be our QB?
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but it’s yet another odd situation Williams has put himself in. I personally don’t care what the guy does but he’s an oddball at the very least, but at the worst it’s another red flag for a personality flaw. That isnt vitriol just because you disagree with it.
How is saving 10% to 15% to do a pro forma contract an oddball thing? Explain convincingly how it is oddball and I'll agree with you. Just because a bunch of keyboard warriors shout he's a DUMB, a FLAKE and a MORON doesn't mean there is anything to this. Isn't smart to save money for nothing? Doesn't that show he may have something "between the ears"? Don't we want a savvy player to be our QB?
Oh I see what is happening here. It seems like you're the one extremely triggered by the fact that we will not be getting the prospect you see as the Golden generational one. That is unfortunate, I'm sorry buddy.
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In comment 16404842 UConn4523 said:
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but it’s yet another odd situation Williams has put himself in. I personally don’t care what the guy does but he’s an oddball at the very least, but at the worst it’s another red flag for a personality flaw. That isnt vitriol just because you disagree with it.
How is saving 10% to 15% to do a pro forma contract an oddball thing? Explain convincingly how it is oddball and I'll agree with you. Just because a bunch of keyboard warriors shout he's a DUMB, a FLAKE and a MORON doesn't mean there is anything to this. Isn't smart to save money for nothing? Doesn't that show he may have something "between the ears"? Don't we want a savvy player to be our QB?
Oh I see what is happening here. It seems like you're the one extremely triggered by the fact that we will not be getting the prospect you see as the Golden generational one. That is unfortunate, I'm sorry buddy.
Are these words that you are stringing together supposed to make sense in English, in the modern world? I'm not sure if your intention is to communicate an idea or perhaps a kind of performative art meant to signify intellectual dysfunction. If so, you might be a genius.
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In comment 16404835 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16404831 Manhattan said:
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In comment 16404823 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16404800 Dankbeerman said:
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His deal is going to be slotted and not much to talk about besides lingo and he can sign an agent at anytime before he signs his deal. he has the chance to get a good deal and if it snags he brings in a pro.
Yea the negative reaction to this as a red flag is insane. There’s not much an agent can do for him right now.
Such strange and unrelenting vitriol over a nothing-burger. He triggers some people. Wild to watch it play out.
I don't see anyone questioning his generational talent hype as triggered. They are just questioning the mainstream narrative that he is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck due to a lot of valid concerns. Are you going to get a Washington Commies Caleb Williams jersey if he ends up there and start rooting for them?
I have yet to hear anybody liken Caleb Williams to Luck/Lawrence hype.
You are wrong. I have posted three analyses by committed evaluators, and they just about put him in that class. Waldman, Klatt, PFF draft stock exchange. And I would make it four and say Daniel Jeremiah. Just because you don't read them doesn't mean they don't exist.
You're deliding yourself. On no planet is CW considered the consenseus, trade phone taken off the hook that Luck and Lawrence were. He isnt even as big a prospect as Eli and he had at least one other hall of famer in his draft.
I don't know ehat you are trying to prove here. Im still pretty new to the site and admittedly figuring out some tendencies. But I can honestly say that you are easily the most annoying poster Ive encountered. Its not because I disagree with you (Im not sure I do), but more I can't figure out why you are trying to sell this so hard despite you obviously being dead wrong under one of your other guises about several other prospects. I also don't know how you benefit from this. But I can tell you, your posts are boring, muddy up healthy discussions and come off with an arrogance that apparently bothers others.
You (Producer) also said Malik Willis was as good or better than Daniel Jones. You should try... Not talking for a while because nobody takes you seriously.
Caleb Williams has been the presumptive #1 for over a year. That puts him in a special class of QBs. Sometimes reality doesn't conform to your biases. But it's ok. You always have tomorrow to get it right.
Just pipe down. Everybody knows your stance. Just tired of reading it ad nauseam.
The GQ article I mentioned earlier is a good read. I came away with a good impression of his family. But we've all seen examples where the family being involved is a bad dynamic.
I posted this in another thread, in my extremely limited time learning about him, I think a great comparable is Kyler Murray.
The GQ article I mentioned earlier is a good read. I came away with a good impression of his family. But we've all seen examples where the family being involved is a bad dynamic.
I posted this in another thread, in my extremely limited time learning about him, I think a great comparable is Kyler Murray.
Kyler Murray - if Kyler Murray was bigger, had a much bigger arm, had much better pocket presence and committed to the pocket, and was a much better pocket passer, then yes. And Murray is already a top-10 QB. So if the comp is true, with these adjustments, what does that make Caleb Williams?
But it wouldn’t be a red flag if Maye did it? Because there wasn’t a made up story about Maye asking for team ownership?
Clearly not just the best football player ever, but maybe athlete? Maybe best human? I don't want to go nuts, but like maybe a minor god?
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Kyler Murray - if Kyler Murray was bigger, had a much bigger arm, had much better pocket presence and committed to the pocket, and was a much better pocket passer, then yes. And Murray is already a top-10 QB. So if the comp is true, with these adjustments, what does that make Caleb Williams?
Clearly not just the best football player ever, but maybe athlete? Maybe best human? I don't want to go nuts, but like maybe a minor god?
Nice. I like it. Just remember we had this conversation.
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but it’s yet another odd situation Williams has put himself in. I personally don’t care what the guy does but he’s an oddball at the very least, but at the worst it’s another red flag for a personality flaw. That isnt vitriol just because you disagree with it.
But it wouldn’t be a red flag if Maye did it? Because there wasn’t a made up story about Maye asking for team ownership?
Hey if you think there’s nothing to worry about with his mental makeup, good for you. I’ve learned time and time again where there’s smoke theirs fire. And there’s been a ton of smoke this past year.
I don’t really care about being right on this. Hope the guy ends up being a good player unless he’s a redskin. But I am suspect of him and I’m a fan and don’t pick players so it doesn’t matter what I think.
Producer, not responding to you. You are getting the dupe treatment. Have fun baiting others.
I don't find the need to run around virtually screaming about how phenomenal he is.
Missed Sy's comments but he's been making millions. You can bet his current "management" isn't certified w the NFL. Talent isnt enough. This kid seem like a guy who is going to work his ass off to get better each day/week/year?
Red flags all over the place. Never was about his talent but hate have lottos faith this kid has the common sense to not fuck this up.
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In comment 16404451 IchabodGiant said:
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Incoming in 3...2...
Don't forget Manhattan
It’s the same guy. And he was FranchiseQB before Producer. Keeps getting banned and then thinks he’s slick coming back as yet another annoying version
Thanks. Total loon. I knew he was a dupe. They always out themselves thanks now I know which one
I missed this.. where is it ?
Theoretically coudlnt he could go back to college...
Theoretically coudlnt he could go back to college...
He declared for the draft so he’s no longer college eligible.
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if he gets drafted by a team he doesnt like..
Theoretically coudlnt he could go back to college...
He declared for the draft so he’s no longer college eligible.
I thought Cam Ward declared but never hired an sgent and was allowed to transfer to Miami because no agent was hired?
Correct, hiring an agent immediately terminates a player's eligibility, but even without an agent there's a withdrawal deadline, which has now passed.
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but there’s a deadline, it’s in January I believe. That was the big date for Williams as he wouldn’t be able to change back to college after it.
Correct, hiring an agent immediately terminates a player's eligibility, but even without an agent there's a withdrawal deadline, which has now passed.
I figured that was the case. I guess I was just saying CW wouldnt be able to waffle simply because he didnt hire an agent.
Thanks for clarifying though
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even if the contract is pretty much slotted.
You're a rookie draftee right out of college. Across the table are professional negotiators who've done more NFL contracts than they can count. Their job is to get the most out of you for the least money — within the strictures of the CBA.
Facing them, you have never negotiated anything like this deal. The stakes for you are very high; if you mess this up, you can really hurt your future income and opportunities.
If you really feel you shouldn't be paying an agent a percentage for a deal that's pre-slotted, you can negotiate something with your reps to reduce commission on the predetermined portion of your deal, or to limit commission to the negotiable parts of the deal.
I understand why someone in Williams' position would think "What am I paying all that money for?" but in a way it's like insurance. Your agent is there to make sure you don't get screwed. Maybe you don't need him, but when you need him, you REALLY need him.
On the other hand, is a team really going to draft a guy in the top 5 and then go into the negotiation and say "Hey, this kid doesn't have an agent! Let's f*ck him over to save some money!!!"
Exactly.
What owner wants this bad press if their no. 1 pick doesn't sign because he's being strongarmed by the team who drafted him?...
Seems very shortsighted when the salary isn't the issue.
I don't find the need to run around virtually screaming about how phenomenal he is.
Once again you're overestimating what you know about my intentions. I'm not insisting he will be great, though he has a good chance to be great. I'm trying to dispel some misperceptions, mainly that he in some way has some personality defect or leadership deficit, which are completely baseless assumptions, not based on any legit data or reporting. These are biases based on rumor, innuendo and bias.
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start. LJax, part two.
Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
This guy isn't as good as Lamar.
He absolutely is a better prospect than Lamar was
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Another way to look at it, is the guy has all the boxes checked, and he's really smart to not handover several million dollars to a resource he doesn't need.
The GQ article I mentioned earlier is a good read. I came away with a good impression of his family. But we've all seen examples where the family being involved is a bad dynamic.
I posted this in another thread, in my extremely limited time learning about him, I think a great comparable is Kyler Murray.
Kyler Murray - if Kyler Murray was bigger, had a much bigger arm, had much better pocket presence and committed to the pocket, and was a much better pocket passer, then yes. And Murray is already a top-10 QB. So if the comp is true, with these adjustments, what does that make Caleb Williams?
There no one on the planet who thinks Murray is a top 10 Qb. No one
I haven't seen anything indicating that he doesn't plan to acquire an agent after the draft.
I don't find the need to run around virtually screaming about how phenomenal he is.
Once again you're overestimating what you know about my intentions. I'm not insisting he will be great, though he has a good chance to be great. I'm trying to dispel some misperceptions, mainly that he in some way has some personality defect or leadership deficit, which are completely baseless assumptions, not based on any legit data or reporting. These are biases based on rumor, innuendo and bias.
Believe me amigo, I wouldn't dare imagine what your intentions are.
But it takes no special skills of clairvoyance to index the frequency at which you post about how wonderful he is.
I haven't seen anything indicating that he doesn't plan to acquire an agent after the draft.
I agree with the fixed salary amount.
An agent, however, is an advocate and intel collector. So, he will be able to connect with teams on the player's behalf and assess and share the latest intel as situations shift, especially well-established agents.
Maybe that isn't important to Team Caleb, and they feel they can manage those parts. But there is some added value despite the fixed salary.
See the drama from this past season.
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Unless I'm missing something, the rookie salary for someone drafted in the first round is non-negotiable - would make sense to not take a chunk out of that salary with agent fees if an agent isn't really able to make an impact on the potential earnings at this point.
I haven't seen anything indicating that he doesn't plan to acquire an agent after the draft.
I agree with the fixed salary amount.
An agent, however, is an advocate and intel collector. So, he will be able to connect with teams on the player's behalf and assess and share the latest intel as situations shift, especially well-established agents.
Maybe that isn't important to Team Caleb, and they feel they can manage those parts. But there is some added value despite the fixed salary.
Agreed but he'll be a top 3 pick at worst .... he'll get the shoe deal his salary is basically set. Hire a lawyer to review the rookie deal. A PR team for gigs and endorsement deals. Biggest thing he can do is recognize that social media is not his friend and to stay away "personally", use the PR team. Now his 2nd contract an agent would be ideal.
See the drama from this past season.
One perspective to keep in mind. While either at Oklahoma or USC, Riley's defenses were abysmal, especially at USC. They couldn't stop Mater Dei, the best high school in California.
Thus, this put an immense burden on CW to try to outscore every team. Because that ostensibly became the strategy in 2022 and 2023. So, if he and the offense were off in a game, which happened, this will make any player frustrated. Character flaw? Maybe. Or maybe it's just human nature for a young man still trying to grow up...
See the drama from this past season.
I look forward to reading your book on Leadership in the NFL. Especially the chapter on Daniel Jones: "He has IT".
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In comment 16404421 bw in dc said:
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start. LJax, part two.
Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
This guy isn't as good as Lamar.
He absolutely is a better prospect than Lamar was
Lamar was clearly misevaluated by the NFL. He should have been the first pick in that draft.
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In comment 16404460 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16404421 bw in dc said:
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start. LJax, part two.
Now this could be a red flag...
If I'm Chicago, I am seriously considering Daniels...
This guy isn't as good as Lamar.
He absolutely is a better prospect than Lamar was
Lamar was clearly misevaluated by the NFL. He should have been the first pick in that draft.
Over Josh Allen?
Over Josh Allen?
I really like LJax, but Allen is from another planet. And I contend his running is just as effective as LJax's at this stage.
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Putting it out there. He is not Mahomes and will never be Mahomes. He will definitely flash, too much arm talent not to. He will lose his locker room over time because he is small in character.
See the drama from this past season.
I look forward to reading your book on Leadership in the NFL. Especially the chapter on Daniel Jones: "He has IT".
Then hire an agent for all the promotional side gigs?
That certainly seems the most rational thing to do. The agent does not write or review the contract. That is the lawyer. Which I would be shocked if the player's did not pay separtely. So the agent woudl get something like $1.2MM to negotiate a deal that is 99% locked in by the CBA. The fact that he does not want to pay 3% doesn't mean he isn't getting help and representation. We will have to see how it actually plays out.
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but, can't he just hire a contract lawyer/consultant for the fine print, saving himself millions on the contract? As noted, there's not much negotiation regarding the overall details.
Then hire an agent for all the promotional side gigs?
That certainly seems the most rational thing to do. The agent does not write or review the contract. That is the lawyer. Which I would be shocked if the player's did not pay separtely. So the agent woudl get something like $1.2MM to negotiate a deal that is 99% locked in by the CBA. The fact that he does not want to pay 3% doesn't mean he isn't getting help and representation. We will have to see how it actually plays out.
Yep, that is why I would not fault him for not hiring an agent IF that is the reason. That being said, the agents are more than just negotiating contracts and arranging combine prep. The interviews are going to play a big role in where Williams eventually gets drafted and agents have access to the people who can help Williams in that area.