have 70 yards rushing and a TD or something like that.
DJ achieved this record as much as that vaunted Viking Defense gave it up.
"We'll Always Have Minnesota"
That's my recollection as well. And my point was, that's not an NFL record in the way that people commonly mean it (i.e., most passing yards in a game, highest completion percentage in a game, most single-season rushing TDs, etc.).
So when someone calls DJ's performance in that Minnesota playoff game "a[n] NFL record," they're either being intentionally misleading, or they don't really understand what an NFL record actually is.
In this case, I'd bet on the latter because I think the former requires cleverness and guile.
A Game That Will Live In Infamy
Mostly because that epic win also came with this result:
Daniel Jones signed a 4 year contract with the New York Giants worth a base value of $160.0 million with $82 million guaranteed at signing and total guarantee of $105 million. Jones has full guaranteed salaries and work out bonuses in 2023 and 2024, and a $36 million signing bonus. $23 million of the 2025 base salary is guaranteed for injury at signing, with $12 million of that scheduled to vest into a full guarantee at the start of the 2025 league year. Jones can also earn a $1 million roster bonus at the start of the 2026 league year. An available $35 million through performance incentives is also available. Details courtesy of PFT.
humbling as well...goes to show you that a QBs job is to run the offense. The basics...
1.He's got to be a leader.
2.Football IQ - He needs to be able to read the Defenses and put the players in the right position after the play is called from the sideline.
3.Execution - needs to make the throws when needed, sometimes scramble or buy time in the pocket.
4.Pocket awareness - avoid sacks
5.Health - avoid injuries, know when to throw it away, slide, etc
The rest is athleticism, arm strength and whatever.
I dont need my QB to be able to throw 80 yards on his knees or run a 4.3 40 time.
Again, Malik Willis tried and failed so miserably at playing quarterback that they basically wasted no time at all in benching him to make sure he never played again, and then they drafted another QB in the second round to basically ensure that Willis would not be the only option they had besides Tannehill.
Daniel Jones set a NFL record in a road playoff win.
So yes, I would prefer to have Jones on a 2 year guaranteed deal than have Malik Willis, who doesn’t know how to throw a NFL football well enough to play the position in any scenario.
And you said you don’t treat his 2022 like it was an MVP season. He set an arbitrary made up record
Our residential draft expert Sy essentially had a first-round grade on Willis. So, it wasn't a stretch at all to want to consider him with a first day pick.
Lots of people bat 1.000 in hindsight.
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
The draft is such a crap shoot, you never know what you're going to end up with. If you hit 50% on a particular class you've done a fantastic job. The QB position is the most enigmatic when it comes to making the jump from college to the pros. Even if your scouts identify a can't-miss prospect, there is no guarantee your coaching staff isn't going to screw him up. the variables are incalculable.
Daniel Jones set a NFL record in a road playoff win.
This is what happens when you listen to other DJ enthusiasts, Ryan. What record did DJ set in that win? Is it a record that the NFL tracks? Could you tell anyone who held this record before DJ?
Maybe we'll add "NFL record" to the list of things you don't quite understand.
It's the "Pu pu Platter" of select single game stats combined to make it seem like totaling 379 yards and 2 TDs is a historic playoff performance.
I don't think anyone has a problem acknowledging Jones had a really good game against Minnesota. But the next logical step in the order of operations is 1) why? 2) was it a signal of things to come?
You simply can't evaluate his performance without taking into consideration how truly bad the Vikings defense was. To ignore that is intellectually dishonest and frankly naive.
The enduring memory I have from the playoffs is how easily and thoroughly the Eagles dismantled the Giants. And how completely out of their league Jones looked. That performance, from the Giants at large, resembled the coming season way more than the Vikings game.
So today the Giants find themselves in a position presumably contemplating replacing Jones, 82M in on an investment that has netted .5 games of good football, and coming of double digit loss season 8 in the last decade.
The Minnesota game or the Eagle game? Answer is easy
Exactly -- and this is where the practical economics come into play.
In the hypothetical where you draft Willis. The Giants had already signed Taylor, and declined Jones's option. Let's imagine they try and trade Jones or just cut him.
If the Giants draft Willis at 5 or 7, any number of draft scenarios might have played out. We can all imagine good, better, or worse scenarios. So I won't harp on that.
But let's simply imagine Willis goes the Lance route, and it's clear after 2 years he's no good.
Standing here today the Giants would not have invested 82M in Jones, and they would be looking to draft a quarterback.
RE: Recall it was something like the first QB to throw 300 yards but also
have 70 yards rushing and a TD or something like that.
DJ achieved this record as much as that vaunted Viking Defense gave it up.
"We'll Always Have Minnesota"
I'd say pull up some of your points in the above threads, because I'm quite sure you have some doozies. But how would we track which of the 37 prior BBI usernames you posted under in those threads? Too confusing. I bet you can't even track them anymore. lol
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
The day you actually contribute something to a thread will be the first
Our residential draft expert Sy essentially had a first-round grade on Willis. So, it wasn't a stretch at all to want to consider him with a first day pick.
Lots of people bat 1.000 in hindsight.
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
Michael Vick was woeful? You're really going to lump him in Kyle Bolle[r]? Vick finished in the top five of MVP voting twice in his career, top five for OPOY twice, won Comeback Player of the Year, and made four Pro Bowls across a 13-season career. That's what you're considering "woeful"?
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
Compared to the Giants' actual decision-making and results?
I have a three day old combo plate sitting in my office fridge that could have done a better job as GM than the Giants have, in the aggregate, over the past decade.
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
The grade was an 80. And in Sy's scale, a first rounder is an 81-84. So, Willis was right on the cusp. That's why I said essentially.
Here is part of Sy's review:
Quote:
In a quarterback class that lacks clarity, Willis is the one standout that could flip this group (and entire draft class) upside down. While there is a lot of work to be done, Willis is the potential superstar. While I doubt we see him come off the board at #2 to Detroit, the value of the position in relation to team-success in this league can certainly lead to it happening. Someone is going to take a swing for the fence with this kid. Keep in mind, there isn’t a scout or coach or GM that doesn’t believe in Willis’ intangibles. He is a rock-solid kid that is going to be great for a locker room and will work hard at his craft...
I wouldn't call Mike Vick a "woeful QB" or insult him by coupling him with Boller. That's incredibly unfair.
You simply can't evaluate his performance without taking into consideration how truly bad the Vikings defense was. To ignore that is intellectually dishonest and frankly naive.
Look, you give Jones credit for executing against Minnesota. Dabka put him in a position to succeed and he made the plays.
But here is how bad the Minnesota pass D was. Basically, the bottom of the barrel in:
Points allowed, defensive DVOA, yards allowed, passing yards allowed, yards per play allowed, yards per pass allowed, giving up plays of 10+, 15+ and 25+ yards.
to wince on my take but all things considered I think I nailed it! (minus Rosen a little)
Not sure
Giantophile : 11/12/2017 5:00 pm : link
why Lamar Jackson isn't in the conversation, he should be. I would rank him and Allen over Darnold, whom I think is "meh" at best. Rosen is a stud but again there are concerns around him re: personality.
I'd like to say I trust the FO to make the right call but I have no trust in them.
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
The day you actually contribute something to a thread will be the first
lol lighten up Francis I'm just breaking you guys ballz.
Look, you give Jones credit for executing against Minnesota. Dabka put him in a position to succeed and he made the plays.
But here is how bad the Minnesota pass D was. Basically, the bottom of the barrel in:
Points allowed, defensive DVOA, yards allowed, passing yards allowed, yards per play allowed, yards per pass allowed, giving up plays of 10+, 15+ and 25+ yards.
They were Swiss Cheese.
Yup, and that's why they should have franchised Jones. That Minnesota game was a data point, not a proof point.
I'm not of the camp that I think he sucks, I believe that's harsh. And I get why some people pushback on that and reference the Vikings game since it's a natural rebuttal. There involves a level of competence to win a road playoff game regardless of the defense. It's something.
If you believe the article Breer wrote after the contract was done, he said Daboll really became sold on Jones after the Packers win abroad. Jones made some plays in that come from behind win. He executed the offense and did what was asked of him. I think the momentum of the Colts & Vikings wins late pushed everything towards the contract and franchising Barkley.
It was an error. There needed to be more sample size before assuming there was another step up for Jones.
There isn't enough of a jump to Jones from Taylor and that's the problem. If Jones gets hurt in 2022 and Taylor fills in and wins a few games, I'm sure the thought process is different. Jones just is not worth anything near $40M.
On another note, I think the Cardinals have the same issue with Murray. He's making a ton of money, but how much better was Murray than Dobbs? In the last 2 years Murray has played healthy, his Y/A is 6.1 and 6.7. Nowhere near what he's getting paid.
I'm not of the camp that I think he sucks, I believe that's harsh. And I get why some people pushback on that and reference the Vikings game since it's a natural rebuttal. There involves a level of competence to win a road playoff game regardless of the defense. It's something.
If you believe the article Breer wrote after the contract was done, he said Daboll really became sold on Jones after the Packers win abroad. Jones made some plays in that come from behind win. He executed the offense and did what was asked of him. I think the momentum of the Colts & Vikings wins late pushed everything towards the contract and franchising Barkley.
It was an error. There needed to be more sample size before assuming there was another step up for Jones.
There isn't enough of a jump to Jones from Taylor and that's the problem. If Jones gets hurt in 2022 and Taylor fills in and wins a few games, I'm sure the thought process is different. Jones just is not worth anything near $40M.
On another note, I think the Cardinals have the same issue with Murray. He's making a ton of money, but how much better was Murray than Dobbs? In the last 2 years Murray has played healthy, his Y/A is 6.1 and 6.7. Nowhere near what he's getting paid.
Good post Sean. And again highlights why the right move was the 5th year option. Cheap, 2 years instead of 1 to prove it, and a fixed, no cost exit.
I agree with most of your post. And maybe not a disagreement, but an observation. If Schoen let the developments with Barkley influence how he handled Jones, he deserves an elephant sized kick in his balls.
from a overall talent perspective. Lazy analysis just making it about a poor ranking Vikings D.
The next week against was about the Giants being outmanned at most positions in that matchup against the Eagles. On both sides of the ball. Jones part in that loss is debatable but some of the takes to the negative are pretty over the top.
How Daboll handled the end of the first Giants offensive series suggested to me he knew he had a less talented team.
I agree with most of your post. And maybe not a disagreement, but an observation. If Schoen let the developments with Barkley influence how he handled Jones, he deserves an elephant sized kick in his balls.
I agree. I just think there was no world where in Daboll's first year and the first playoff win since SB46, both Jones & Barkley weren't returning for year two with Daboll. I'm not defending it, I just see no scenario where that was realistic.
And it goes back to your original point. If the Giants liked Jones enough to start him in 2022, they should have protected themselves with the 5th year option. They walked right into the scenario and were unprepared. There should have been no scenario which took them off the tag for Jones in the event of a good year once they declined the 5th year option.
I think Schoen was unprepared for the (illusion) of success. Which is disappointing, because he had a front row seat in Buffalo in 2017.
Beane wasn't fooled by the 9-7, playoff bid, Taylor-led season. Beane went right to work to upgrade the QB position.
There's no need to overcomplicate the outcome of the Vikings playoff game. Jones played well against a very bad defense. That was a poor reference point to judge Jones. I'm sure it didn't help when Schoen's boss declared they were back after.
Mediocre offense has success against horrendous defense...
from a overall talent perspective. Lazy analysis just making it about a poor ranking Vikings D.
The next week against was about the Giants being outmanned at most positions in that matchup against the Eagles. On both sides of the ball. Jones part in that loss is debatable but some of the takes to the negative are pretty over the top.
How Daboll handled the end of the first Giants offensive series suggested to me he knew he had a less talented team.
The Mike White Jets, Mac Jones Patriots and Teddy Bridgewater/Skylar Thompson Dolphins also really "matched up" well with the Vikings in 2022. Three of the 10 opponents that gained over 400 total yards against them.
from a overall talent perspective. Lazy analysis just making it about a poor ranking Vikings D.
Should we ignore how epically bad the Vikings D was? That playoff loss to the Giants was just a continuation how bad their D had been all year.
But they defied logic with their improbable one-score wins. A testament to that offense and Cousins/O'Connell.
Mac Jones had a better game against Minnesota in 22 then DJ, with more passing yards than DJ had pass+rushing, and also with 2 TDs. Mike White put up 369 yards against Minnesota that season in a losing effort.
If DJ puts up the exact same stat line, but the Giants lose the game (like NE and NYJ had in the reg season) is his performance heralded? Does he get the big contract?
So yes, I would prefer to have Jones on a 2 year guaranteed deal than have Malik Willis, who doesn’t know how to throw a NFL football well enough to play the position in any scenario.
Shouldn't you reserve judgment on Willis until he's had five years to play the position...
Let's be honest. Your guy has played five years and we're still uncertain what we have?
NO,
YOU
are uncertain.
The Giants, the current management had him for a year and then gave him a nice contract.
He won a playoff game away with a shit cast and was the NFL player of the week during the playoffs. You are all free to circumstance that away all you want. Jones was great a number of times in 2022. Go back and look at the games Jones played in 2023 BEFORE he was injured and evaluate the OL play. It was on pace for over 100 sacks.
That said. I would draft a QB because of Jones injuries but we know Jones can play. I can easily imagine what he could do with better players. I am with Colin on Jones. Is he stupid too? He could be wrong but the take isn't ABSURD LIKE ALLL OF YOU TRY TO PAINT IT.
Quote:
have 70 yards rushing and a TD or something like that.
DJ achieved this record as much as that vaunted Viking Defense gave it up.
"We'll Always Have Minnesota"
That's my recollection as well. And my point was, that's not an NFL record in the way that people commonly mean it (i.e., most passing yards in a game, highest completion percentage in a game, most single-season rushing TDs, etc.).
So when someone calls DJ's performance in that Minnesota playoff game "a[n] NFL record," they're either being intentionally misleading, or they don't really understand what an NFL record actually is.
In this case, I'd bet on the latter because I think the former requires cleverness and guile.
A Game That Will Live In Infamy
Mostly because that epic win also came with this result:
Daniel Jones signed a 4 year contract with the New York Giants worth a base value of $160.0 million with $82 million guaranteed at signing and total guarantee of $105 million. Jones has full guaranteed salaries and work out bonuses in 2023 and 2024, and a $36 million signing bonus. $23 million of the 2025 base salary is guaranteed for injury at signing, with $12 million of that scheduled to vest into a full guarantee at the start of the 2025 league year. Jones can also earn a $1 million roster bonus at the start of the 2026 league year. An available $35 million through performance incentives is also available. Details courtesy of PFT.
1.He's got to be a leader.
2.Football IQ - He needs to be able to read the Defenses and put the players in the right position after the play is called from the sideline.
3.Execution - needs to make the throws when needed, sometimes scramble or buy time in the pocket.
4.Pocket awareness - avoid sacks
5.Health - avoid injuries, know when to throw it away, slide, etc
The rest is athleticism, arm strength and whatever.
I dont need my QB to be able to throw 80 yards on his knees or run a 4.3 40 time.
Daniel Jones set a NFL record in a road playoff win.
So yes, I would prefer to have Jones on a 2 year guaranteed deal than have Malik Willis, who doesn’t know how to throw a NFL football well enough to play the position in any scenario.
And you said you don’t treat his 2022 like it was an MVP season. He set an arbitrary made up record
Quote:
Lots of dumb on there.
Our residential draft expert Sy essentially had a first-round grade on Willis. So, it wasn't a stretch at all to want to consider him with a first day pick.
Lots of people bat 1.000 in hindsight.
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
It was one game... - ( New Window )
The draft is such a crap shoot, you never know what you're going to end up with. If you hit 50% on a particular class you've done a fantastic job. The QB position is the most enigmatic when it comes to making the jump from college to the pros. Even if your scouts identify a can't-miss prospect, there is no guarantee your coaching staff isn't going to screw him up. the variables are incalculable.
Who said I’ve never said anything nice about Jones!
It was only one game pt 2 - ( New Window )
Quote:
another fun one from the archives... It was one game... - ( New Window )
Who said I’ve never said anything nice about Jones!
Well played sir.
Quote:
Daniel Jones set a NFL record in a road playoff win.
This is what happens when you listen to other DJ enthusiasts, Ryan. What record did DJ set in that win? Is it a record that the NFL tracks? Could you tell anyone who held this record before DJ?
Maybe we'll add "NFL record" to the list of things you don't quite understand.
It's the "Pu pu Platter" of select single game stats combined to make it seem like totaling 379 yards and 2 TDs is a historic playoff performance.
You simply can't evaluate his performance without taking into consideration how truly bad the Vikings defense was. To ignore that is intellectually dishonest and frankly naive.
The enduring memory I have from the playoffs is how easily and thoroughly the Eagles dismantled the Giants. And how completely out of their league Jones looked. That performance, from the Giants at large, resembled the coming season way more than the Vikings game.
So today the Giants find themselves in a position presumably contemplating replacing Jones, 82M in on an investment that has netted .5 games of good football, and coming of double digit loss season 8 in the last decade.
Exactly -- and this is where the practical economics come into play.
In the hypothetical where you draft Willis. The Giants had already signed Taylor, and declined Jones's option. Let's imagine they try and trade Jones or just cut him.
If the Giants draft Willis at 5 or 7, any number of draft scenarios might have played out. We can all imagine good, better, or worse scenarios. So I won't harp on that.
But let's simply imagine Willis goes the Lance route, and it's clear after 2 years he's no good.
Standing here today the Giants would not have invested 82M in Jones, and they would be looking to draft a quarterback.
DJ achieved this record as much as that vaunted Viking Defense gave it up.
"We'll Always Have Minnesota"
I'd say pull up some of your points in the above threads, because I'm quite sure you have some doozies. But how would we track which of the 37 prior BBI usernames you posted under in those threads? Too confusing. I bet you can't even track them anymore. lol
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
Quote:
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
The day you actually contribute something to a thread will be the first
I won't believe they will stop until they do.
Quote:
In comment 16404806 bwitz said:
Quote:
Lots of dumb on there.
Our residential draft expert Sy essentially had a first-round grade on Willis. So, it wasn't a stretch at all to want to consider him with a first day pick.
Lots of people bat 1.000 in hindsight.
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
Michael Vick was woeful? You're really going to lump him in Kyle Bolle[r]? Vick finished in the top five of MVP voting twice in his career, top five for OPOY twice, won Comeback Player of the Year, and made four Pro Bowls across a 13-season career. That's what you're considering "woeful"?
Quote:
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
Compared to the Giants' actual decision-making and results?
I have a three day old combo plate sitting in my office fridge that could have done a better job as GM than the Giants have, in the aggregate, over the past decade.
Let's skip the appeal to authority, shall we?
He gave him an 80 rating which is 2nd rounder. He also gave the same to Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder. While Pickett and Ridder have struggled more than not, Willis hasn't shown a lick of promise whatsoever. He was always going to be raw with his mechanics and accuracy; his "traits" people liked were arm strength and scrambling ability. Lots of failed players in the past had a strong arm but was a woeful QB. Mike Vick and Kyle Bollee for starters. Running against your low end college schools is completely different than the pros. He hasn't shown a flashes there, either.
Matt Corral also had some faves from this board. He's been an absolute dud.
The grade was an 80. And in Sy's scale, a first rounder is an 81-84. So, Willis was right on the cusp. That's why I said essentially.
Here is part of Sy's review:
I wouldn't call Mike Vick a "woeful QB" or insult him by coupling him with Boller. That's incredibly unfair.
You simply can't evaluate his performance without taking into consideration how truly bad the Vikings defense was. To ignore that is intellectually dishonest and frankly naive.
Look, you give Jones credit for executing against Minnesota. Dabka put him in a position to succeed and he made the plays.
But here is how bad the Minnesota pass D was. Basically, the bottom of the barrel in:
Points allowed, defensive DVOA, yards allowed, passing yards allowed, yards per play allowed, yards per pass allowed, giving up plays of 10+, 15+ and 25+ yards.
They were Swiss Cheese.
Not sure
Giantophile : 11/12/2017 5:00 pm : link
why Lamar Jackson isn't in the conversation, he should be. I would rank him and Allen over Darnold, whom I think is "meh" at best. Rosen is a stud but again there are concerns around him re: personality.
I'd like to say I trust the FO to make the right call but I have no trust in them.
Quote:
In comment 16405100 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The mistake that kills you isn’t missing on a QB in the top 5. It’s not knowing when to move on.
The 49ers and Cardinals didn’t pay Rosen and Lance. The Jets let Darnold move on. For some reason the Giants decided Jones deserved a big contract, for at least two years, and may give him a 6th year. That’s the crippling mistake.
Dammit, why can't you be our GM?? You are SO fucking prescient! Why!!! Why oh why couldn't the Giants have at the very least listened to ajr2456 from BBI! Oh the pain, the pain!
lofl
The day you actually contribute something to a thread will be the first
lol lighten up Francis I'm just breaking you guys ballz.
Wait... Roy kids? WTH hell are those?
But here is how bad the Minnesota pass D was. Basically, the bottom of the barrel in:
Points allowed, defensive DVOA, yards allowed, passing yards allowed, yards per play allowed, yards per pass allowed, giving up plays of 10+, 15+ and 25+ yards.
They were Swiss Cheese.
Yup, and that's why they should have franchised Jones. That Minnesota game was a data point, not a proof point.
Wait... Roy kids? WTH hell are those?
You know I like you Johnny, so at worst you'd be Connor. I think we all know who Kendal would be.
If you believe the article Breer wrote after the contract was done, he said Daboll really became sold on Jones after the Packers win abroad. Jones made some plays in that come from behind win. He executed the offense and did what was asked of him. I think the momentum of the Colts & Vikings wins late pushed everything towards the contract and franchising Barkley.
It was an error. There needed to be more sample size before assuming there was another step up for Jones.
There isn't enough of a jump to Jones from Taylor and that's the problem. If Jones gets hurt in 2022 and Taylor fills in and wins a few games, I'm sure the thought process is different. Jones just is not worth anything near $40M.
On another note, I think the Cardinals have the same issue with Murray. He's making a ton of money, but how much better was Murray than Dobbs? In the last 2 years Murray has played healthy, his Y/A is 6.1 and 6.7. Nowhere near what he's getting paid.
If you believe the article Breer wrote after the contract was done, he said Daboll really became sold on Jones after the Packers win abroad. Jones made some plays in that come from behind win. He executed the offense and did what was asked of him. I think the momentum of the Colts & Vikings wins late pushed everything towards the contract and franchising Barkley.
It was an error. There needed to be more sample size before assuming there was another step up for Jones.
There isn't enough of a jump to Jones from Taylor and that's the problem. If Jones gets hurt in 2022 and Taylor fills in and wins a few games, I'm sure the thought process is different. Jones just is not worth anything near $40M.
On another note, I think the Cardinals have the same issue with Murray. He's making a ton of money, but how much better was Murray than Dobbs? In the last 2 years Murray has played healthy, his Y/A is 6.1 and 6.7. Nowhere near what he's getting paid.
Good post Sean. And again highlights why the right move was the 5th year option. Cheap, 2 years instead of 1 to prove it, and a fixed, no cost exit.
The next week against was about the Giants being outmanned at most positions in that matchup against the Eagles. On both sides of the ball. Jones part in that loss is debatable but some of the takes to the negative are pretty over the top.
How Daboll handled the end of the first Giants offensive series suggested to me he knew he had a less talented team.
I agree. I just think there was no world where in Daboll's first year and the first playoff win since SB46, both Jones & Barkley weren't returning for year two with Daboll. I'm not defending it, I just see no scenario where that was realistic.
And it goes back to your original point. If the Giants liked Jones enough to start him in 2022, they should have protected themselves with the 5th year option. They walked right into the scenario and were unprepared. There should have been no scenario which took them off the tag for Jones in the event of a good year once they declined the 5th year option.
I think Schoen was unprepared for the (illusion) of success. Which is disappointing, because he had a front row seat in Buffalo in 2017.
Beane wasn't fooled by the 9-7, playoff bid, Taylor-led season. Beane went right to work to upgrade the QB position.
There's no need to overcomplicate the outcome of the Vikings playoff game. Jones played well against a very bad defense. That was a poor reference point to judge Jones. I'm sure it didn't help when Schoen's boss declared they were back after.
It was the matchup, duh.
Should we ignore how epically bad the Vikings D was? That playoff loss to the Giants was just a continuation how bad their D had been all year.
But they defied logic with their improbable one-score wins. A testament to that offense and Cousins/O'Connell.
The next week against was about the Giants being outmanned at most positions in that matchup against the Eagles. On both sides of the ball. Jones part in that loss is debatable but some of the takes to the negative are pretty over the top.
How Daboll handled the end of the first Giants offensive series suggested to me he knew he had a less talented team.
The Mike White Jets, Mac Jones Patriots and Teddy Bridgewater/Skylar Thompson Dolphins also really "matched up" well with the Vikings in 2022. Three of the 10 opponents that gained over 400 total yards against them.
Lazy
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from a overall talent perspective. Lazy analysis just making it about a poor ranking Vikings D.
Should we ignore how epically bad the Vikings D was? That playoff loss to the Giants was just a continuation how bad their D had been all year.
But they defied logic with their improbable one-score wins. A testament to that offense and Cousins/O'Connell.
Mac Jones had a better game against Minnesota in 22 then DJ, with more passing yards than DJ had pass+rushing, and also with 2 TDs. Mike White put up 369 yards against Minnesota that season in a losing effort.
If DJ puts up the exact same stat line, but the Giants lose the game (like NE and NYJ had in the reg season) is his performance heralded? Does he get the big contract?
The sooner we move on, the better.
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So yes, I would prefer to have Jones on a 2 year guaranteed deal than have Malik Willis, who doesn’t know how to throw a NFL football well enough to play the position in any scenario.
Shouldn't you reserve judgment on Willis until he's had five years to play the position...
Let's be honest. Your guy has played five years and we're still uncertain what we have?
YOU
are uncertain.
The Giants, the current management had him for a year and then gave him a nice contract.
He won a playoff game away with a shit cast and was the NFL player of the week during the playoffs. You are all free to circumstance that away all you want. Jones was great a number of times in 2022. Go back and look at the games Jones played in 2023 BEFORE he was injured and evaluate the OL play. It was on pace for over 100 sacks.
That said. I would draft a QB because of Jones injuries but we know Jones can play. I can easily imagine what he could do with better players. I am with Colin on Jones. Is he stupid too? He could be wrong but the take isn't ABSURD LIKE ALLL OF YOU TRY TO PAINT IT.
We know what the Giants thought.
We will find out what they think after the draft.
I admit, I don't know what they think right now.
We shall see.