Listened to their latest podcast on the treadmill & while it's obvious, I don't think it can be understated: Joe needs to nail this draft. As it stands right now, we got 3 picks in the top 47. Of course there's a chance we could move up & lose picks/move back/acquire picks, but Chris made it a point of emphasis: the Giants need impact dudes. He alluded to the Lions draft last spring where the Lions got Gibbs, Campbell, LaPorta, & Branch in the first two rounds...all men who had a big impact on the Lions' season. Look at the Rams & Texans drafts too with picks like Dell & Nacua.
I think Joe's first two drafts have been alright, but not speculator as of now. & I know its a fools errand to grade drafts so soon, but I think Chris' overall point remains true: we gotta hit some HRs, not doubles. We need a huge influx of talent on this roster & the draft is where to do it.
This is a big offseason for Schoen. I'm not expecting a Lombardi in '24, but this is now his third offseason & his show. Nail it Joe.
While I want impact players, I believe none is more impactful than the right QB.
On a side note, I don't think the Lions/Niners will ever win it all with their current QBs.
in this era of the current CBA it's 4 year deals (except for 1st round pick and the potential for the 5th year option), so for many of these guys 25% of their rookie deal is over, from his 1st draft for many players 50% of their rookie deal is over.
Why is it foolish to evaluate the return?
Draft grades right after the draft before players have played a down are stupid.
Give it a rest. Every freakin GM needs to nail the draft. Thought he has done a good job in the 1st two he has had.
BTW, most of BBI belittled the Lions during and just after the draft last year.
While I want impact players, I believe none is more impactful than the right QB.
On a side note, I don't think the Lions/Niners will ever win it all with their current QBs.
I am not a Brock Purdy or Jared Goff fan, but both have been to SBs and Purdy's team was only one play away from winning it. Given the difficulty of winning the SB it is probably true that neither will while the current QB is the QB. But it will demonstrably not be because of who the current QB is. It is fair to say that every team in the NFL will probably not win a SB with their current QB. The only possible exception is KC and I might still take that bet on even money.
This roster isn’t in that much better shape after 2 years. That’s hard to believe given what he inherited.
He needs to show why he was considered such a strong GM hire.
Banks is showing us good returns early and I think the point needs to be emphasized that today rookies need to produce and show more quickly in today's NFL. From that standpoint, it's not too harsh to react "too early".
If you have a great rookie, they are going to show you they are great early as some of the rookies mentioned on other teams did. The consistency may come later but if it's a great player more often than not they demonstrate that very early.
I think the reasons that the Giants have become an organization of malfunctional failure can't be fixed by drafts or changing middle managers. The fish has rotted from the head and the rotten head is here to stay at least for my lifetime.
I think the fate of the current HC and GM were greatly damaged by converting the 2 points at the end of game 1 in 2022 and then their fate was close to sealed when an UDFA QB won more games in 2023 than the QB #1.
IMO in order to survive past 2024 they're going to have to draw winning cards on an inside straight.
He's got to select a QB that Daboll loves. Don't take a QB just to buy a 4th season. Probably requires a trade.
Exactly. Well put. Which is why, to much of what you've been saying along with Eric and myself...this is the painfully obvious time for this regime to get their own QB because I really don't think they get another chance at doing so.
I'll keep saying this ad nauseum; this regime needs to put serious focus on the OL. That hurts because they've used substantial draft capital already to do so, but holding onto hope there would be foolish and potentially job costing.
This will be year 3, yes its true the roster has been devoid of talent and they suffered catastrophic levels of injury on the OL last year...but there is zero excuse, and I mean zero to have another bottom five OL next year. And you better sign a competent backup LT, I love Thomas but don't pull that excuse again if he goes down.
I think the reasons that the Giants have become an organization of malfunctional failure can't be fixed by drafts or changing middle managers. The fish has rotted from the head and the rotten head is here to stay at least for my lifetime.
I think the fate of the current HC and GM were greatly damaged by converting the 2 points at the end of game 1 in 2022 and then their fate was close to sealed when an UDFA QB won more games in 2023 than the QB #1.
IMO in order to survive past 2024 they're going to have to draw winning cards on an inside straight.
They'll have to get QB right. A great QB is a deodorant for all the other shit in an organization.
Yes but the draft made sense because of the foundation of solid players (and QB) that was in place.
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within the first 2 rounds. That has a high likelihood of buying himself a 4th season.
He's got to select a QB that Daboll loves. Don't take a QB just to buy a 4th season. Probably requires a trade.
I think the two are pretty in sync and in a way, married to each other. If Schoen is fired Daboll is going with him - the QB is needed for both of them IMO.
I don't know. Schoen seems to have a sense of positional value. In his first draft, he went for a pass rusher and offensive tackle with his two top ten picks - can't really argue that as the start of a foundation. Unfortunately the returns haven't been great.
I think it's been way too much of, "get weapons for Daniel" since 2021.
They've had an identity before. "Can't have enough pass rushers." Add that with a strong QB and the Giants were always dangerous. They also put together a very strong OL without investing much draft capital in it.
I'm of the belief that it starts with QB, so I hope that's addressed in April. There is no reason to work backwards.
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Exactly. Well put. Which is why, to much of what you've been saying along with Eric and myself...this is the painfully obvious time for this regime to get their own QB because I really don't think they get another chance at doing so.
I'll keep saying this ad nauseum; this regime needs to put serious focus on the OL. That hurts because they've used substantial draft capital already to do so, but holding onto hope there would be foolish and potentially job costing.
This will be year 3, yes its true the roster has been devoid of talent and they suffered catastrophic levels of injury on the OL last year...but there is zero excuse, and I mean zero to have another bottom five OL next year. And you better sign a competent backup LT, I love Thomas but don't pull that excuse again if he goes down.
Grit,
You hearing anything from the inside on intentions to draft a QB?
This roster isn’t in that much better shape after 2 years. That’s hard to believe given what he inherited.
He needs to show why he was considered such a strong GM hire.
+1, we need impact players but also great depth in this year's draft.
Good point, almost feels like it was a throwback game plan - run the ball (SB & DJ), play great defense.
I've been pretty disconnected lately, I'm very bearish on the team. As we get really close to draft night I hope that reignites some interest. This team has felt like its going nowhere fast for a decade and I'm at a point where I'll find better things to do than watch the Giants lose 11-12 games every year.
If he doesn't have an heir apparent in place, and Jones performs at his career average, he's gone.
The OL continues to be questionable. Is JMS the answer at center? If not we have 4 positions with below average talent. Our Wrs and TEs are below average and possibly 32nd in the league. I would say the RB situation is bottom as of today.
We obviously don’t know the plan but 2 drafts in the O is probably in worse shape now than when Schoen and Daboll came on board. So if we magically trade away draft capital to draft a QB we will have cap limitations because we just paid DJ. Same situation as when we drafted DJ. We were paying Eli, no rookie cap savings and a severe lack of offensive talent. Don’t make the same mistakes. If our #1 QB choice isn’t obtainable, don’t settle for the next best or 3rd best. I think the O roster needs to be built so a QB can have success. Schoen needs to draft a stud offensive weapon, this will be his 3rd draft pick in the top 7. So far one is average and 1 is a bust. This one has to be the stud.
For all the crap Gettlemen got, he drafted Thomas and Dexter Lawrence who are on a path to HOF potential.
Of course the Giants need impact players, most teams do, but as Sy said, can’t use Lions draft last year as a prime example considering they already had the QB and other pieces in place.
The point remains that this is indeed a big offseason, as the OP said, I’m confident they’ll get it right.
The plan is simple, they want Dabolls offense- go to guy outside, chain moving quickness guy in slot, reliable middle of the field TE, rotational backfield and a two way QB who will keep mistakes to a minimum.
Defensively, build around the front and the CB's.
They were forced to lock in DJ to tag Barkley. That was a mistake. I think they learned from.that.
I see Maye or McCarthy being our guy here if at all possible.
The plan is simple, they want Dabolls offense- go to guy outside, chain moving quickness guy in slot, reliable middle of the field TE, rotational backfield and a two way QB who will keep mistakes to a minimum.
Defensively, build around the front and the CB's.
They were forced to lock in DJ to tag Barkley. That was a mistake. I think they learned from.that.
I see Maye or McCarthy being our guy here if at all possible.
Agreed and I feel JJ would fit really well in Daboll’s offense. I think JD (more so than Maye) and Maye would also fit well.
They’re going into year 3 with a roster still completely lacking in playmakers, they resigned Jones who had a horrific year, Daboll (who I like) is coming off a poor season of coaching, they’ve put a 1st, 2nd and multiple 3rd round picks into the OL and have nothing to show for it right now. The OL made a mockery of the sport last year.
How is it even arguable this is the fork in the road offseason? They need to hit majorly in this draft to set themselves up - not even for 2024 - but for most likely 2025.
If they don’t hit big on this draft it is most likely a fatal blow for this regime. It gets late early in the NFL, especially in the NYC. Right or wrong.
I’d say yes and no to that. I think he wants someone who can stretch the field while also limiting mistakes. Since Daboll came to NY, I feel Allen has gotten a little more mistake prone each of the last two years.
The plan is simple, they want Dabolls offense- go to guy outside, chain moving quickness guy in slot, reliable middle of the field TE, rotational backfield and a two way QB who will keep mistakes to a minimum.
Defensively, build around the front and the CB's.
They were forced to lock in DJ to tag Barkley. That was a mistake. I think they learned from.that.
I see Maye or McCarthy being our guy here if at all possible.
Agreed with the top portion of your post specifically. Of course that goes the other way as well. Fans also tend to go a bit overboard over sexy moves the team makes that they agree with before we have a chance to see what we have. More of a my problem I guess.
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within the first 2 rounds. That has a high likelihood of buying himself a 4th season.
If he doesn't have an heir apparent in place, and Jones performs at his career average, he's gone.
Yup. He structured that contract that way on purpose. Take this year on the chin and have someone else ready to go.
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The Lions had a really good draft last spring, no?
Yes but the draft made sense because of the foundation of solid players (and QB) that was in place.
That's exactly what Daniel Jeremiah said in his 2024 pre-draft media call today. When asked if the Lions' 2023 draft strategy could be replicated, Jeremiah responded that the Lions' success was due to their strong foundation, which was built years before they drafted their 1st round offensive and defensive linemen in 2021 and 2022. They then added RB, LB, S, and TE in 2023.
The wind seems to be blowing towards QB.
You’re a joke. Giants won 10 games and a road playoff game in their first season together as a regime.
Daboll won COACH OF THE YEAR IN THE NFL his first season with the team. How is that sucking at his job????????????
Jesus Christ. A rough season because of injuries, really tough opening slate and bad play out of the gate has everyone here acting like Jets fans. This is so embarrassing.
Not only has he been a good coach but he won the award in 2022 for being the single best at his job out of 32.
This roster isn’t in that much better shape after 2 years. That’s hard to believe given what he inherited.
He needs to show why he was considered such a strong GM hire.
That’s exactly why I use the Lions as the template for roster building. They invested in a veteran QB who’s pretty darn good and runs that offense to perfection especially with the weapons he has. We all agree the QB is the key position but perhaps we look to a veteran QB and use our picks the build around him whoever that may be.
I disagree here. You've even said Daboll turned chicken shit into salad in 2022. This is how you get into the never ending cycle of changing coaching staffs.
Daboll has a better record than Belichick and Vrabel the last 2 seasons.
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I have to completely disagree on Daboll wanting a “keep mistakes to a minimum type QB”. He wants a wide open playbook with skill guys who can play multiple positions to remove predictability. He wants a big arm that can stretch the field. This is the guy who successfully refined Josh Allen. He wants that type of skill set again.
I’d say yes and no to that. I think he wants someone who can stretch the field while also limiting mistakes. Since Daboll came to NY, I feel Allen has gotten a little more mistake prone each of the last two years.
Allen has made more mistakes since Daboll left. You don’t get one without the other. Brian Kelly was asked after Jayden Daniels junior season what he needed to do for improvement, Kelly answered “throw more interceptions”. A funny comment but he elaborated and explained an aggressive quarterback targeting all 3 phases of the field will inevitably throw some picks but you need him to have that mindset to push your team as far as it can go.
Even Mahomes throws picks.
Nobody’s saying they were good because of the draft. They’re saying they got 4 good players with their picks.
The Giants need to find good players with their picks. It’s not an earth shattering statement but it’s true for Schoen this year. He’s running out of time to turn this roster around.
If the Giants fall on their face next year, everyone risks losing their jobs.
Not only has he been a good coach but he won the award in 2022 for being the single best at his job out of 32.
No one is taking “tests” on being a Giants fan.
If the Giants fall on their face next year, everyone risks losing their jobs.
There is a big difference between 6-11 with the status quo at QB and 6-11 with a rookie QB who's shown signs of being able to play at a high level.
I think neglecting QB this year puts Schoen & Daboll at risk if they have a poor season. In that scenario, promoting Cowden and hiring Vrabel feels like an easy move for Mara.
But, I think they'll draft a QB and 2025 becomes the year this regime needs a big jump up.