McCarthy has a lot of talent, I’ve always felt he was the most likely to shoot up draft boards. Sy referencing the under pressure stats mirrors what I’ve seen with Maye, he struggles with defenders at his feet.
If JJ goes top 5, that means Daniels or Maye is more likely to fall to us. I prefer Daniels, but Maye would be an interesting project for Daboll and Kafka.
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
Got to be 2004? Eli, Big Ben, Rivers and Schaub? JP Losman never came close to a Pro Bowl
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
As long as we aren't the ones who pick the JP Losman, we're good :)
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
As long as we aren't the ones who pick the JP Losman, we're good :)
By all means, someone pick JJ in the top five. Getting either Maye or Daniels as a project would totally make my day. Or at the very least, have first dibs on either Odunze (my lean, though I think they're neck and neck) or Nabers.
I've been aboard the JJ train for a couple weeks now
Sy has been able to quantify my feelings about him.
I do fear that after the combine McCarthy will move up the draft board and may be drafted before the Giants pick.
McCarthy's ability to succeed in pressure situations and his mobility in the pocket make him a better fit for the Giants.
However, I would not be disappointed with Daniels and Maye as consolation prizes.
There appear to be (4) quality QBs available.
I hope that the Giants draft one of them.
the biggest factor people still seem to overlook is the difference between the 3 juniors (williams, maye, jj) and the 3 other qbs who played 5+ years with transfers.
those extra years and extra reps, and in all 3 cases better receiving talent, were big factors in the areas where they had better stats. any JJ mccarthy fans out there? - ( New Window )
We've all witnessed the importance of a qb being able to perform well
... and NFL teams don't factor numbers as much as they factor traits.
And no, NFL teams don't care that much about wins. They care about traits.
And Maye is not the best in this class at moving the pocket, and pocket presence. Everyone I listen to says it is Williams.
Finally, if we care about college pressure stats so much, then what about Nix and Penix, who I have heard have far and away the best pressure stats in the class. So if that alone is good enough to elevate JJ, why doesn't it elevate them?
I'm not saying JJ doesn't have promise. And it seems like he might go in the top-10. I'd rather have Williams, Maye, Daniels and maybe Penix, for starters.
And I still think Maye is the clear #2 in this class, and I'd love to have him on the Giants.
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
Take a look at the pass McCarthy makes vs Ohio State in the 2Q of a 7-3 game with 10:25 to go on 3rd and 10. Ohio State was ranked #2 at the time and Michigan #3 in a game of two undefeated.
Especially the QB view of the pass, which is second angle on the video linked below. IIt looks rather ordinary in the broadcast view (first angle) but once you see his view, it’s spectacular.
Under pressure from3 guys, he throws a pass in anticipation of his WR who can’t even be seen yet into what looks like two defenders, except that pass is pinpoint placed over the shoulder and splits the defenders. Absolutely tremendous throw for a TD to make it 14-3. But forgetting the throw, the guts is takes to make that throw is something that’s been sorely missing around here. Go to 2:20 - ( New Window )
made the key comments here: McCarthy played with much better talent.
So, if you accept that and that he played with better coaching (which he clearly did), how can then not conclude that McCarthy was in a better environment to succeed?
Another way to look at this is that Maye played under more duress than McCarthy and was asked to shoulder more of the burden. So, perhaps that means something in favor of Maye...?
Penix has awful stats under pressure.
The worst of all the top QBs.
He is a different QB when not pressured.
The pressure in the NFL is a lot more complex than the vanilla Ds we see in college. So, I have no idea how to conclude that success against pressure in college equals success against pressure in the NFL.
Unless you plan on having a shit OL for the next 15 years
You can make a case for or against each. There are things to like about JJM - including some of the “numbers behind the numbers.”I would rank him 5th in front of only Nix but he could wind up being the best of the bunch.
All said, any of the top 6 QB prospects would be fine for me at #6. Williams or Maye if we’re trading up.
As long as we pick one of them and turn the page from Daniel Jones, we have hope for a turnaround - or at the very least a couple of years of more entertaining football than watching Danny Dumpoff attempting to play QB in the NFL.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think this matters a lot. You can see it in the Pats doc on Apple+ and that Brady immediately started to change things in y1 as a starter that affected the whole team and even Belichick
Interesting viewpoint. I think McCarthy studies hard. He shows anticipation enough times that it makes you think he’s studied the play and the routes in a very concentrated way. That applies to the pass Hard Truth pointed to.
RE: RE: I'm on the wagon too. JJ is a winner. Period.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think this matters a lot. You can see it in the Pats doc on Apple+ and that Brady immediately started to change things in y1 as a starter that affected the whole team and even Belichick
Exactly. The PERSON matters a lot. The right jockey gets the most out of a horse.
It's not enough that a player visually looks like Justin Herbert. That doesn't mean squat if the player doesn't have something special between the ears and in their heart to will a team forward.
That is a great throw. But that might very well be an INT in the NFL. McCarthy is a risk taker.
Its better than a QB eho never takes risks. Brett Favre took risks. So did Eli. You learn from mistakes. If you try to avoid them at all costs you are doomed to being mediocre.
I am just as over Jones as you. But let’s get past that and evaluate these interesting prospects. The Mich OSU game is interesting because McCarthy does impressive things vs a tier 1 defense.
That is a great throw. But that might very well be an INT in the NFL. McCarthy is a risk taker.
Maybe it is a pick in the NFL. But then again maybe he is making his calculations based on who is playing and what he anticipates they will do? So hard to tell with QBs and that’s part of why.
This was a big play (3rd & 10) vs a big time team (#2 OSU) in a big time game (two 11-0 teams with the loser probably not making the playoffs)
But looking at some highlights of the 4 QBs; I haven’t seen that kind of throw made from the other 3 guys. Not that I watch a lot of film. Williams seems to more rely on arm talent in tough spot (scramble a bit and throw it super hard or super far) Daniels takes off when pressured and Maye big plays seem to come from a clean pocket.
Take a look at the pass McCarthy makes vs Ohio State in the 2Q of a 7-3 game with 10:25 to go on 3rd and 10. Ohio State was ranked #2 at the time and Michigan #3 in a game of two undefeated.
Especially the QB view of the pass, which is second angle on the video linked below. IIt looks rather ordinary in the broadcast view (first angle) but once you see his view, it’s spectacular.
Under pressure from3 guys, he throws a pass in anticipation of his WR who can’t even be seen yet into what looks like two defenders, except that pass is pinpoint placed over the shoulder and splits the defenders. Absolutely tremendous throw for a TD to make it 14-3. But forgetting the throw, the guts is takes to make that throw is something that’s been sorely missing around here. Go to 2:20 - ( New Window )
An absolutely disgusting good throw. Elite anticipation and moxie to pull the trigger and trusting your study, ability, and the receiver. The balls and skill I wish we had.
If JJ goes top 5, that means Daniels or Maye is more likely to fall to us. I prefer Daniels, but Maye would be an interesting project for Daboll and Kafka.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
Gonna be brutal when the Giants take another position at 6.
Quote:
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
Got to be 2004? Eli, Big Ben, Rivers and Schaub? JP Losman never came close to a Pro Bowl
Quote:
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
As long as we aren't the ones who pick the JP Losman, we're good :)
Quote:
In comment 16406430 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
As long as we aren't the ones who pick the JP Losman, we're good :)
Agreed! :)
Sy has been able to quantify my feelings about him.
I do fear that after the combine McCarthy will move up the draft board and may be drafted before the Giants pick.
McCarthy's ability to succeed in pressure situations and his mobility in the pocket make him a better fit for the Giants.
However, I would not be disappointed with Daniels and Maye as consolation prizes.
There appear to be (4) quality QBs available.
I hope that the Giants draft one of them.
the biggest factor people still seem to overlook is the difference between the 3 juniors (williams, maye, jj) and the 3 other qbs who played 5+ years with transfers.
those extra years and extra reps, and in all 3 cases better receiving talent, were big factors in the areas where they had better stats.
any JJ mccarthy fans out there? - ( New Window )
And no, NFL teams don't care that much about wins. They care about traits.
And Maye is not the best in this class at moving the pocket, and pocket presence. Everyone I listen to says it is Williams.
Finally, if we care about college pressure stats so much, then what about Nix and Penix, who I have heard have far and away the best pressure stats in the class. So if that alone is good enough to elevate JJ, why doesn't it elevate them?
I'm not saying JJ doesn't have promise. And it seems like he might go in the top-10. I'd rather have Williams, Maye, Daniels and maybe Penix, for starters.
And I still think Maye is the clear #2 in this class, and I'd love to have him on the Giants.
Quote:
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
When is the last time a single draft netted 4 franchise (or even pro bowl) level QBs drafted in the 1st round? It's likely 1 or 2 of these guys aren't going to turn out to be franchise QBs.
The 2004 draft.
I am with you Jon. Maye at 6 would be ideal.
As good as Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield and Rosen? LOL
So you think Sy is lying? wtf?
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It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
As good as Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield and Rosen? LOL
You left out the best one, Josh Allen.
Quote:
In comment 16406430 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
It's good news for the QB hungry giants that there may be 4 really good first round qbs in this draft.
As good as Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield and Rosen? LOL
You left out the best one, Josh Allen.
It’s also hysterical that he lumped Lamar Jackson in with Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen, lol
Especially the QB view of the pass, which is second angle on the video linked below. IIt looks rather ordinary in the broadcast view (first angle) but once you see his view, it’s spectacular.
Under pressure from3 guys, he throws a pass in anticipation of his WR who can’t even be seen yet into what looks like two defenders, except that pass is pinpoint placed over the shoulder and splits the defenders. Absolutely tremendous throw for a TD to make it 14-3. But forgetting the throw, the guts is takes to make that throw is something that’s been sorely missing around here.
Go to 2:20 - ( New Window )
So, if you accept that and that he played with better coaching (which he clearly did), how can then not conclude that McCarthy was in a better environment to succeed?
Another way to look at this is that Maye played under more duress than McCarthy and was asked to shoulder more of the burden. So, perhaps that means something in favor of Maye...?
The worst of all the top QBs.
He is a different QB when not pressured.
The worst of all the top QBs.
He is a different QB when not pressured.
Yeah, good luck with that in the NFL.
Honestly, the only really attractive point on Penix is he isn't Daniel Jones.
The worst of all the top QBs.
He is a different QB when not pressured.
The pressure in the NFL is a lot more complex than the vanilla Ds we see in college. So, I have no idea how to conclude that success against pressure in college equals success against pressure in the NFL.
All said, any of the top 6 QB prospects would be fine for me at #6. Williams or Maye if we’re trading up.
As long as we pick one of them and turn the page from Daniel Jones, we have hope for a turnaround - or at the very least a couple of years of more entertaining football than watching Danny Dumpoff attempting to play QB in the NFL.
I know that traits are most important to the NFL evaluators but they look at projectable traits.
McCarthy has raw untapped potential.
Also, I believe that the ability to win under duress is a skill and the best have it.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think this matters a lot. You can see it in the Pats doc on Apple+ and that Brady immediately started to change things in y1 as a starter that affected the whole team and even Belichick
Gonna be brutal when the Giants take another position at 6.
If we work up enough reverse psychology they might make the right decision.
Quote:
I would be happy getting him.
I think he is someone who will bring that Brady-esque zero tolerance to losing and hold everyone accountable to getting better every single day. I see that kind of fire in him.
If you want a culture setter, this guy is it.
I love the coaching under Harbaugh and the confirmation of his numbers under pressure and in big game situations is EXACTLY what you want in a next level franchise QB.
I think this matters a lot. You can see it in the Pats doc on Apple+ and that Brady immediately started to change things in y1 as a starter that affected the whole team and even Belichick
Exactly. The PERSON matters a lot. The right jockey gets the most out of a horse.
It's not enough that a player visually looks like Justin Herbert. That doesn't mean squat if the player doesn't have something special between the ears and in their heart to will a team forward.
Its better than a QB eho never takes risks. Brett Favre took risks. So did Eli. You learn from mistakes. If you try to avoid them at all costs you are doomed to being mediocre.
I'd love it. The Giants have too long neglected QB, I don't think DeVito is anything special.
Maybe it is a pick in the NFL. But then again maybe he is making his calculations based on who is playing and what he anticipates they will do? So hard to tell with QBs and that’s part of why.
This was a big play (3rd & 10) vs a big time team (#2 OSU) in a big time game (two 11-0 teams with the loser probably not making the playoffs)
But looking at some highlights of the 4 QBs; I haven’t seen that kind of throw made from the other 3 guys. Not that I watch a lot of film. Williams seems to more rely on arm talent in tough spot (scramble a bit and throw it super hard or super far) Daniels takes off when pressured and Maye big plays seem to come from a clean pocket.
Especially the QB view of the pass, which is second angle on the video linked below. IIt looks rather ordinary in the broadcast view (first angle) but once you see his view, it’s spectacular.
Under pressure from3 guys, he throws a pass in anticipation of his WR who can’t even be seen yet into what looks like two defenders, except that pass is pinpoint placed over the shoulder and splits the defenders. Absolutely tremendous throw for a TD to make it 14-3. But forgetting the throw, the guts is takes to make that throw is something that’s been sorely missing around here. Go to 2:20 - ( New Window )
An absolutely disgusting good throw. Elite anticipation and moxie to pull the trigger and trusting your study, ability, and the receiver. The balls and skill I wish we had.