a bunch of draft picks, or instead make all the specific moves that you think the Giants should make, where do you think the Giants will finish?
I think that regardless of what we do, 8 wins is the likely result. I hope for more, but I don't think we will equal the 9-7-1 of two years ago.
The future is impossible to predict, so your guess is certainly as good as mine.
What happens with Barkley?
What happens with McKinney?
1-- Worst OLINe.
2-- Gona lose Barkley?
3-- Tight Ends questionable.
4-- WR's not so good.
5-- Run Defense not that good.
6-- Need more Edge rushing
With all this you think the 3rd or 4th QB taken is going to turn all these things around in 1 year to near .500? I don't.
I know just numbers. But the logic behind it is some time for hopefully good draft picks, free agency and a new defensive coordinator to gel. Also get a second influx of talent in the 2025 offseason.
The Dolphins took 3 seasons to turn their franchise around from a 25th ranked offense in 2019 to the 2nd ranked offense in 2023. It is optimistic the Giants can do that in one season of 2024 as the transition.
To do so the Giants need to come out of this draft with a stud wide receiver, some offensive line help and a quarterback option. In free agency they should look to bolster the offensive line. Two players to look at would be OG/OT Michael Onwenu, Patriots (PFF 2023 grade 71.5) and OG Kevin Dotson, Rams (PFF 2023 grade 84.4).
Can't neglect the defense. Must get a pass rusher and a corner in the draft.
Franchise LT, Schmitz will be fine. some good up and comers in Robinson & Hyatt.
Waller - but he has to stay healthy.
Franchise LT, Schmitz will be fine. some good up and comers in Robinson & Hyatt.
Waller - but he has to stay healthy.
I agree, some talent, but a number of holes that need to be filled and little quality depth. How many guys have we signed off the street (or couch) and see starting right away?
1-- Worst OLINe.
2-- Gona lose Barkley?
3-- Tight Ends questionable.
4-- WR's not so good.
5-- Run Defense not that good.
6-- Need more Edge rushing
With all this you think the 3rd or 4th QB taken is going to turn all these things around in 1 year to near .500? I don't.
3rd or 4th QB could end up being the best one. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the best QB's from 2018 despite being the 3rd and 5th ones selected.
Also for what its worth as bad as this team was last year they were not far from having 9 wins again with a roster depleted by injury. They easily could have and really should have beaten the Jets, Bills and Rams. Not saying they are a good team but the margin between winning and losing is very small.
1-- Worst OLINe.
2-- Gona lose Barkley?
3-- Tight Ends questionable.
4-- WR's not so good.
5-- Run Defense not that good.
6-- Need more Edge rushing
With all this you think the 3rd or 4th QB taken is going to turn all these things around in 1 year to near .500? I don't.
1-- Worst OLINe. - I expect at least 1 FA OG to starts and another from either FA or draft. This unit, with a good OL coach now, should be much improved. That doesn't mean great. That means about middle of the pack, which is a huge upgrade
2-- Gona lose Barkley? - Maybe, maybe not. But, I expect a solution whether it be committee, FA, whatever. With Barkley on the decline, we should be able to fill what we need from the position.
3-- Tight Ends questionable. - This is a tough one. I reallly thought Bellinger was going to be a star this year. I think his regression had to do with Waller. We shall see.
4-- WR's not so good. - 100% disagree. Robinson is on the verge of becoming a star and I really like Hyatt. Slayton is a decent WR. He just isn't a #1. They add 1 more legit WR, I think we have a very good squad. If (big if) they stick with Jones at QB, I'd take a stud WR.
5-- Run Defense not that good. - Agree 100%. But, I expect we run a regular DL on the field most of the time. I expect improvement here.
6-- Need more Edge rushing - Agree and expect this addressed via draft and via a new defensive scheme that actually has legit DEs on the field.
Overall, I think we can be a 9 win team.
This team needs a much greater infusion of talent than they will get in a single off season and while paying a below average QB $40MM.
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Our talent is no good.
1-- Worst OLINe.
2-- Gona lose Barkley?
3-- Tight Ends questionable.
4-- WR's not so good.
5-- Run Defense not that good.
6-- Need more Edge rushing
With all this you think the 3rd or 4th QB taken is going to turn all these things around in 1 year to near .500? I don't.
3rd or 4th QB could end up being the best one. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were the best QB's from 2018 despite being the 3rd and 5th ones selected.
Josh Allens 1st year Buffalo was 6-10.
Lamar joined a team that the prior year they were 9-7.
However, we were almost a 9-win team last season.
And considering the mess it was, that's not too shabby.
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I disagree with this assessment. Most are areas I fully expect to address:
1-- Worst OLINe. - I expect at least 1 FA OG to starts and another from either FA or draft. This unit, with a good OL coach now, should be much improved. That doesn't mean great. That means about middle of the pack, which is a huge upgrade
2-- Gona lose Barkley? - Maybe, maybe not. But, I expect a solution whether it be committee, FA, whatever. With Barkley on the decline, we should be able to fill what we need from the position.
3-- Tight Ends questionable. - This is a tough one. I reallly thought Bellinger was going to be a star this year. I think his regression had to do with Waller. We shall see.
4-- WR's not so good. - 100% disagree. Robinson is on the verge of becoming a star and I really like Hyatt. Slayton is a decent WR. He just isn't a #1. They add 1 more legit WR, I think we have a very good squad. If (big if) they stick with Jones at QB, I'd take a stud WR.
5-- Run Defense not that good. - Agree 100%. But, I expect we run a regular DL on the field most of the time. I expect improvement here.
6-- Need more Edge rushing - Agree and expect this addressed via draft and via a new defensive scheme that actually has legit DEs on the field.
Overall, I think we can be a 9 win team.
I hope you are right but I don't agree.
1-- OL in FA - I did a quick glance on NFL Team needs and there are 21 teams in need of OL. And I would say a decent amount of teams either have more cap space than the Giants or better overall team which players do care about as well than the Giants.
They have a RT highly questionable that he is a RT and a Center which PFF called the worst OL in all of the NFL. If they had adequate backups then the OL wouldn't have been considered the worst. So not only do they need starters- they need backups. IMo way too much to expect the OL coach to turn crap to anything useful. They need another year.
2-- IMO if they lose SB - I think it pipedream that a RB by committee will equal what we are losing.
3-- I don't see TE as a tough one. I don’t think much of Bellinger and Waller another year older - another high chance to breakdown.
4-- Couldn't disagree with you more about the WR crew. There's a reason why most draft boards say among biggest needs for Giants is WR. They don't have a number 1- without a number 1 you aren't that good. Their next best WR has started 11 of 34 games and he is built of brittle glass. Is anything wrong with what I just said about WR? So, it's not very good. I didn't say "suck"- just "not good."
5-- SO we're going to get a Qb rd 1? An Og rd 2? Than an Edge - all will hit and we got a new OL Coach and a New Defensive scheme so all of this will hit too while nearly all the teams better than us - they won't get much better?
IMO it's too much wishful thinking. But I hope you're right . Love it if you are. But imo it's been a talent and depth issue all along. New coaches can only do so much for a young team that is currently talent-deficient.
However, we were almost a 9-win team last season.
And considering the mess it was, that's not too shabby.
Let's stop with this. The idea isn't to come close in football games. No offense but please don't say you are not a glass half full fan when you use 2023 data but then don't include 2022 data in which the Giants won or tied in combo many one score games.
Everything broke right that year if you want to be fair. Otherwise they had a losing record if using the same criteria that "we could have won 9 games this past year."
And for this year we could have lost may 2 or more games and been 4 win or worse, right? SO you are only looking at things as a glass half full fan, right? Only looking at potential wins and not potential losses? Three of the wins came against two of the three worst teams in the NFL and two were very tight, weren't they?
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In comment 16406960 giantstock said:
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I disagree with this assessment. Most are areas I fully expect to address:
1-- Worst OLINe. - I expect at least 1 FA OG to starts and another from either FA or draft. This unit, with a good OL coach now, should be much improved. That doesn't mean great. That means about middle of the pack, which is a huge upgrade
2-- Gona lose Barkley? - Maybe, maybe not. But, I expect a solution whether it be committee, FA, whatever. With Barkley on the decline, we should be able to fill what we need from the position.
3-- Tight Ends questionable. - This is a tough one. I reallly thought Bellinger was going to be a star this year. I think his regression had to do with Waller. We shall see.
4-- WR's not so good. - 100% disagree. Robinson is on the verge of becoming a star and I really like Hyatt. Slayton is a decent WR. He just isn't a #1. They add 1 more legit WR, I think we have a very good squad. If (big if) they stick with Jones at QB, I'd take a stud WR.
5-- Run Defense not that good. - Agree 100%. But, I expect we run a regular DL on the field most of the time. I expect improvement here.
6-- Need more Edge rushing - Agree and expect this addressed via draft and via a new defensive scheme that actually has legit DEs on the field.
Overall, I think we can be a 9 win team.
I hope you are right but I don't agree.
1-- OL in FA - I did a quick glance on NFL Team needs and there are 21 teams in need of OL. And I would say a decent amount of teams either have more cap space than the Giants or better overall team which players do care about as well than the Giants.
They have a RT highly questionable that he is a RT and a Center which PFF called the worst OL in all of the NFL. If they had adequate backups then the OL wouldn't have been considered the worst. So not only do they need starters- they need backups. IMo way too much to expect the OL coach to turn crap to anything useful. They need another year.
2-- IMO if they lose SB - I think it pipedream that a RB by committee will equal what we are losing.
3-- I don't see TE as a tough one. I don’t think much of Bellinger and Waller another year older - another high chance to breakdown.
4-- Couldn't disagree with you more about the WR crew. There's a reason why most draft boards say among biggest needs for Giants is WR. They don't have a number 1- without a number 1 you aren't that good. Their next best WR has started 11 of 34 games and he is built of brittle glass. Is anything wrong with what I just said about WR? So, it's not very good. I didn't say "suck"- just "not good."
5-- SO we're going to get a Qb rd 1? An Og rd 2? Than an Edge - all will hit and we got a new OL Coach and a New Defensive scheme so all of this will hit too while nearly all the teams better than us - they won't get much better?
IMO it's too much wishful thinking. But I hope you're right . Love it if you are. But imo it's been a talent and depth issue all along. New coaches can only do so much for a young team that is currently talent-deficient.
2 - I don't think a committee replaces Barkley. I think it gives them enough of a running game to have a decent offense. Barkley, in my opinion, is on the decline. His pass catching was dicey this year and he lost half a step.
3 - TE depends on Bellinger stepping up. I think he will be better than last year and get more snaps with Waller being the guy to come in for 2 TE sets, not the other way around. They need a better #3.
4 - WR - It is a big need to get a #1, but that doesn't mean they don't have other WRs. Robinson, down the stretch was excellent. I think it was the first time we saw a 100% healthy Robinson incorporated as a major piece in the offense. He will only get better. Kafka has to use Hyatt more; he is not just a fly pattern or bust. Get him and Robinson on more crossing and slant routes, to try to run away from defenders. If they get an actual #1, Slayton is not a bad guy to have. He just shouldn't be the #1. That said, look what he did when Taylor actually tried to get him the ball.
5 & 6 - The entire D hinges on getting a proper DL in place.
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In comment 16406996 Matt M. said:
1 -OL - I am banking A LOT on the new OL coach getting a lot more from Neil and JMS improving. He started out decent. After returning from injury he was bad. I don't think he was ever fully healthy.
2 - I don't think a committee replaces Barkley. I think it gives them enough of a running game to have a decent offense. Barkley, in my opinion, is on the decline. His pass catching was dicey this year and he lost half a step.
3 - TE depends on Bellinger stepping up. I think he will be better than last year and get more snaps with Waller being the guy to come in for 2 TE sets, not the other way around. They need a better #3.
4 - WR - It is a big need to get a #1, but that doesn't mean they don't have other WRs. Robinson, down the stretch was excellent. I think it was the first time we saw a 100% healthy Robinson incorporated as a major piece in the offense. He will only get better. Kafka has to use Hyatt more; he is not just a fly pattern or bust. Get him and Robinson on more crossing and slant routes, to try to run away from defenders. If they get an actual #1, Slayton is not a bad guy to have. He just shouldn't be the #1. That said, look what he did when Taylor actually tried to get him the ball.
5 & 6 - The entire D hinges on getting a proper DL in place.
I dont see what you are seeing. IMO you are seeing an illusion of players that make a play here or there and a also wishing a lot. WIth that said- who knows - 2022 was a good year. I hope what you say winds up being nailed as fact.
If they get the QB right they just need Pacheco like production anyway
Who will be QB?
Will Bricillo fix the OLine?
Who will they sign in FA?
How will the injuries affect the roster
Do McKinney and Barkley return? (And A'Shawn?)
How does the draft go?
Who will be QB?
Will Bricillo fix the OLine?
Who will they sign in FA?
How will the injuries affect the roster
Do McKinney and Barkley return? (And A'Shawn?)
How does the draft go?
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Too many variables and unknowns. In order:
Who will be QB?
Will Bricillo fix the OLine?
Who will they sign in FA?
How will the injuries affect the roster
Do McKinney and Barkley return? (And A'Shawn?)
How does the draft go?
the qb will be Daniel Jones, he is the best option. The other positions are a crap shoot.
If a sub-7.0 Y/A and less than 1 TD (rushing and passing combined)per game is your best option then we have bigger problems