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| Quote: |
| "Once you get paid that amount of money as a Quarterback you cant blame things on everybody else...You're the guy and you have to find a way to deliver" |
Not sure how that is as missed by some
-Bad OL
-Lack of weapons
Those are the two biggest we hear. To Osi's point, you don't get those reasons cited when you are making $40M AAV.
The DJFC? Excuse after excuse after excuse.
This year he missed multiple games again and once again was unable to make plays while not continuously turning it over which appears to stem from slower processing which is what we've heard since draft night.
Maybe it would've been different for him in a better situation but continuing to think this is his year is the definition of insanity. The offense not only didn't look substantially worse without Jones it actually looked better at times.
If you still think next year is his year, but laugh at Cowboy fans for saying "this year is our year" you really need some introspection. DJ will never be more than a middling back up and the sooner you admit that the sooner you'll stop being disappointed.
The Giants must move on from him.
The Giants must move on from him.
I don't think his deficits are related to anything physically (well injury problems yeah), but his big problem has always been how his mind works in the pocket. Sy saw it on his tape as a prospect and it's still the same. He doesn't have a quick, intuitive mind required to be a franchise qb in the league.
Jones certainly hasn’t, but that hasn’t stopped many from making excuses for him. I think that is what Osi is referring to.
He hasn't blamed anyone else, but there are an allegiance of fans who have, myself included. But Jones himself hasn't done nothing but act professional.
Lamar is a top paid QB and we have non-Raven fans making excuses for him and his piss play in the playoffs.
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He has a great work ethic, and he hasn't blamed anyone for his deficits. He just lacks the talent to succeed in the NFL today. It is a passing league and he doesn't have the accuracy to enable his team to score in the air game very often. His best ability comes from his rushing abilities, and after his most recent "season-ending-injury", this time involving an ACL, his mobile abilities will be decreased.
The Giants must move on from him.
I don't think his deficits are related to anything physically (well injury problems yeah), but his big problem has always been how his mind works in the pocket. Sy saw it on his tape as a prospect and it's still the same. He doesn't have a quick, intuitive mind required to be a franchise qb in the league.
He has athletic aka physical limitations,
too. He's not consistent in anything he does. He struggles with accuracy to leverage points. He doesn't anticipate well in the pocket. He lacks awareness and sense. And more. These are things great athletes do well. Why is Steph Curry a monstrous 3 point shooter. It's not only mental. His consistency is a physical gift.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Very simple .
-- DJFC, established 2019
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Justin Herbert could retire tomorrow and it would take Jones 3.5 seasons to catch him in touchdowns at his current career pace. That’s not just a supporting cast issue.
Jones hasn't.
He has plenty of morons to do it for him.
People keep doing this and it's not smart, but they always think it's a 'gotcha' checkmate.
Lamar is a top paid QB and we have non-Raven fans making excuses for him and his piss play in the playoffs.
Yep. Don't forget Justin Herbert, how'd he look this year?
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Absolutely not wrong.
Lamar is a top paid QB and we have non-Raven fans making excuses for him and his piss play in the playoffs.
Yep. Don't forget Justin Herbert, how'd he look this year?
lol. Herbert played injured all season. His weapons and OLine were the same as they’ve always been. Do you really want to compwhat Herbert has done in the league with your boy Jones? There isn’t ONE person in any capacity in the NFL that would take Jones over Herbert. Just fucking stop, clown.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
He’s making over $40M per season. So yeah, DO IT!!!!
Yep. Don't forget Justin Herbert, how'd he look this year?
Actually, pretty solid before he got hurt and ended his season. In 12 games, he was 20 TDs/7 INTs, 65% comp%, 7YPA, and 5th in the league in QBR.
Anything else?
Let me explain what goes on.
Players like Herbert and LJax are incredibly gifted; and they have been super-productive from the get-go. Unlike Jones.
So, when guys like that are struggling, you can usually conclude it's something outside of their play. Not all of the time, but usually.
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I suppose this applies to the Golden Boy Herbert, too? Josh Palmer would probably the #1 WR on this team.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Justin Herbert could retire tomorrow and it would take Jones 3.5 seasons to catch him in touchdowns at his current career pace. That’s not just a supporting cast issue.
I thought we were talking about delivering something meaningful - like playoff success. For all of the great things Herbert's done, he hasn't delivered anything meaningful.
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I suppose this applies to the Golden Boy Herbert, too? Josh Palmer would probably the #1 WR on this team.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
He’s making over $40M per season. So yeah, DO IT!!!!
There has to be something around him. Either good skills or a good OL. That's going to be true if Caleb Williams or Drake Maye are here too.
DJ needs to perform or he's gone, we can all agree on that.
'But Jones has a playoff win & Herbert doesn't!'...I can hear the retort already.
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In comment 16407139 mittenedman said:
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I suppose this applies to the Golden Boy Herbert, too? Josh Palmer would probably the #1 WR on this team.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Justin Herbert could retire tomorrow and it would take Jones 3.5 seasons to catch him in touchdowns at his current career pace. That’s not just a supporting cast issue.
I thought we were talking about delivering something meaningful - like playoff success. For all of the great things Herbert's done, he hasn't delivered anything meaningful.
Herbert’s accomplishments so far outweigh the Minnesota Wild Card game
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Says Jones is or has been better than Herbs or Lamar. But the same group who bitch about Daniel are the first ones to blubber out excuses for Lamar or Herbs.
Let me explain what goes on.
Players like Herbert and LJax are incredibly gifted; and they have been super-productive from the get-go. Unlike Jones.
So, when guys like that are struggling, you can usually conclude it's something outside of their play. Not all of the time, but usually.
For Lamar, there has been a consistency and it's that he has consistently come up small in big moments. And he's getting paid well over $40M.
ajr, in an open competition, TT would beat out DJ.
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Difference between Jones and Taylor, so he is overpaid by a lot
ajr, in an open competition, TT would beat out DJ.
Fairly easier id think
Let's play this game the other way: how would the Ravens look with Daniel Jones at quarterback? How would the Chargers look with Daniel Jones at quarterback?
Get the heck out of here with that noise.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
oh please, stop with the 'what-aboutism'
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In comment 16407139 mittenedman said:
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I suppose this applies to the Golden Boy Herbert, too? Josh Palmer would probably the #1 WR on this team.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Justin Herbert could retire tomorrow and it would take Jones 3.5 seasons to catch him in touchdowns at his current career pace. That’s not just a supporting cast issue.
I thought we were talking about delivering something meaningful - like playoff success. For all of the great things Herbert's done, he hasn't delivered anything meaningful.
Let's pretend you own an expansion NFL team. Let's pretend you have the choice of two quarterbacks to lead your team. You can pick Justin Herbert or Daniel Jones. Let's say their salaries are identical. Who are you taking ?
Once a QB takes up close to 25% of the cap and is in his 5th+ year, all that talk needs to stop. Like years ago.
It was a horrible contract for a slow-processing, mediocre-armed QB who had his best year (the legendary 2022 season) dumping the ball off or scrambling almost all of the time - and now we’re dealing with all the natural fallout of that.
Well it certainly made our ownership overrate this team's talent.
Osi is talking to the DJFC?? The fictitious group that some of you obsess about and reference several times a week.
You guys probably should step back and see how unhinged you sound. Won't happen - but it should.
Like 3-4 posters? Daniel Jones lives inside so many posters heads here, that is really scary. I bet they literally wake up, come here and try to think of a different way to say the same thing hundreds a time a day.
It’s really sad for these people. It’s like it’s the most important part of their day to come here and bash one individual player who has one year left on this team and may never even play again for them.
DO IT ANYWAYZ
Osi is talking to the DJFC?? The fictitious group that some of you obsess about and reference several times a week.
You guys probably should step back and see how unhinged you sound. Won't happen - but it should.
Wait, you honestly think it’s “fictitious” that there’s a group of fans that have made excuse after excuse after excuse for Daniel Jones? Because THEY are the ones referred to as the DJFC. It’s just simpler to refer to those people as that than tying out “ the fans that absolutely love Daniel Jones and will stop at nothing to make excuses for him because they’ve somehow convinced themselves that he can someday be better than he’s ever been in his life” every time those fans are being addressed. Osi doesn’t need to know that moniker that BBI created to be talking about that exact group of people.
It’s absolutely astonishing that you would think that anyone was suggesting that Osi thought there was an actual fan club named that and he was targeting that specific “club” rather then the fans with that specific mindset. Incredible
This board has always had a strong bias towards eliminating any players who are making any kind of good money. I remember when there was an alliance to get rid of Hakim Nicks, because he was “dogging it” in practice. Sure, it was his contract year so he wasn’t working hard in practice.
Jones’ injuries are more problematic. But considering all the time and money that the Giants have invested in Daniel Jones, they would be grossly negligent not to see him again with an improved line. He should be on a short enough string, so that if he doesn’t cut it, they will try out another young quarterback in his place. Just not one that they trade four premium draft picks to draft.
All anyone writes about here is offense. We are only a couple of past rushers away from being a top half defense. Helps offense by getting them better field position and not having to come from far behind.
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Like 3-4 posters? Daniel Jones lives inside so many posters heads here, that is really scary. I bet they literally wake up, come here and try to think of a different way to say the same thing hundreds a time a day.
It’s really sad for these people. It’s like it’s the most important part of their day to come here and bash one individual player who has one year left on this team and may never even play again for them.
And yet, here you are . Again. Posting on the same exact threads you constantly ridicule others for posting on. I’ve brought this to your attention several times and you always say that you don’t post on threads related to Daniel Jones. The problem is, you actually post on every single one of them. Is there something tricky about the thread title that threw you off? You could have easily stayed away from the thread. Yet, here you are. Again.
As I said before, your self awareness absolutely sucks.
Simple answer - has any supporter of Jones called themselves a "fan club?"
Or - has a certain group of detractors try to disparage those supporters by belittling Jones and those supporters.
Doesn't take a PhD to answer that question. And it is quite childish.
A small number still think Jones can play. Most of the rest of us have moved on and realize he is not going to improve and certainly is not the answer.
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Like 3-4 posters? Daniel Jones lives inside so many posters heads here, that is really scary. I bet they literally wake up, come here and try to think of a different way to say the same thing hundreds a time a day.
It’s really sad for these people. It’s like it’s the most important part of their day to come here and bash one individual player who has one year left on this team and may never even play again for them.
Haha to 3-4!
You mistakenly typed a dash in your response.
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Simple answer - has any supporter of Jones called themselves a "fan club?"
Or - has a certain group of detractors try to disparage those supporters by belittling Jones and those supporters.
Doesn't take a PhD to answer that question. And it is quite childish.
A small number still think Jones can play. Most of the rest of us have moved on and realize he is not going to improve and certainly is not the answer.
I see, you have decided not to renew your membership.
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In comment 16407394 nygiantfan said:
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.
Simple answer - has any supporter of Jones called themselves a "fan club?"
Or - has a certain group of detractors try to disparage those supporters by belittling Jones and those supporters.
Doesn't take a PhD to answer that question. And it is quite childish.
A small number still think Jones can play. Most of the rest of us have moved on and realize he is not going to improve and certainly is not the answer.
I see, you have decided not to renew your membership.
What membership?
This board has always had a strong bias towards eliminating any players who are making any kind of good money. I remember when there was an alliance to get rid of Hakim Nicks, because he was “dogging it” in practice. Sure, it was his contract year so he wasn’t working hard in practice.
Jones’ injuries are more problematic. But considering all the time and money that the Giants have invested in Daniel Jones, they would be grossly negligent not to see him again with an improved line. He should be on a short enough string, so that if he doesn’t cut it, they will try out another young quarterback in his place. Just not one that they trade four premium draft picks to draft.
All anyone writes about here is offense. We are only a couple of past rushers away from being a top half defense. Helps offense by getting them better field position and not having to come from far behind.
Nobody wants to run Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence out of town.
This board has always had a strong bias towards eliminating any players who are making any kind of good money. I remember when there was an alliance to get rid of Hakim Nicks, because he was “dogging it” in practice. Sure, it was his contract year so he wasn’t working hard in practice.
Jones’ injuries are more problematic. But considering all the time and money that the Giants have invested in Daniel Jones, they would be grossly negligent not to see him again with an improved line. He should be on a short enough string, so that if he doesn’t cut it, they will try out another young quarterback in his place. Just not one that they trade four premium draft picks to draft.
All anyone writes about here is offense. We are only a couple of past rushers away from being a top half defense. Helps offense by getting them better field position and not having to come from far behind.
When will it ever end? He was outplayed by a mediocre journeyman and an undrafted rookie FA. What more do you need to see? You really want to squander another season? Your contention, that we spent so much so we have to see more, is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy. The reason to play Jones rests on does he give us the best chance to grow into a Super Bowl contender, not how much we already spent. This is a basic business principle.
The Giants must move on from him.
Agree, he seems to be a good kid, works hard but that isn't enough. DJ could be the Trent Dilfer or Jim McMahon on a contender, but extremely difficult to build that kind of team with an 85 Bears/2000 Ravens caliber defense. QB with running such a big part of his game combined with the serious injury history means we have to move on, this year or next.
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He has a great work ethic, and he hasn't blamed anyone for his deficits. He just lacks the talent to succeed in the NFL today. It is a passing league and he doesn't have the accuracy to enable his team to score in the air game very often. His best ability comes from his rushing abilities, and after his most recent "season-ending-injury", this time involving an ACL, his mobile abilities will be decreased.
The Giants must move on from him.
Agree, he seems to be a good kid, works hard but that isn't enough. DJ could be the Trent Dilfer or Jim McMahon on a contender, but extremely difficult to build that kind of team with an 85 Bears/2000 Ravens caliber defense. QB with running such a big part of his game combined with the serious injury history means we have to move on, this year or next.
I'd say his shitty play is more 'problematic', but that's just me.
I don't discount the impact awful pass protection had on him, especially early in the year. And that set the tone for the whole season.
In my view he's simply a guy you can do so much better than, and it's clear as day when watching. He's about as good as Tyrod Taylor.
It reminds me so much of EOL Manning. Go in circles to explain why, but include "not very good" in the evaluation as well.
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In comment 16407394 nygiantfan said:
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Like 3-4 posters? Daniel Jones lives inside so many posters heads here, that is really scary. I bet they literally wake up, come here and try to think of a different way to say the same thing hundreds a time a day.
It’s really sad for these people. It’s like it’s the most important part of their day to come here and bash one individual player who has one year left on this team and may never even play again for them.
And yet, here you are . Again. Posting on the same exact threads you constantly ridicule others for posting on. I’ve brought this to your attention several times and you always say that you don’t post on threads related to Daniel Jones. The problem is, you actually post on every single one of them. Is there something tricky about the thread title that threw you off? You could have easily stayed away from the thread. Yet, here you are. Again.
As I said before, your self awareness absolutely sucks.
Every single one. I just checked my active thread thst I posted I. And this is my FIRST one. I think this is my first post about Jones in about 2 weeks - haha. How many you at? 500? 1000?
Your awareness or intelligence might be the one thst actually sucks. Keep crying in all these threads. The humor makes my day with the rest of the know it alls.
I don't discount the impact awful pass protection had on him, especially early in the year. And that set the tone for the whole season.
In my view he's simply a guy you can do so much better than, and it's clear as day when watching. He's about as good as Tyrod Taylor.
It reminds me so much of EOL Manning. Go in circles to explain why, but include "not very good" in the evaluation as well.
I think you may be doing a disservice to Tyrod! At least Tyrod could semi-move the offense even with the crappy protection, too bad he is so erratic throwing the ball.
Jones has the better arm, but Tyrod just sees the field so much better.
You are probably right in that after the Giants let Jones go, he will hook up with another team as backup.
He's got the necessary arm, he's got plus legs, he's not scared in the pocket, he doesn't seem mentally phased.
But there are only so many times the offense sucks, and the post analysis shows plays out there he misses or never sees.
He's a quarterback from central casting, playing the part of a quarterback, who in point-of-fact, isn't a very good one.
He's got the necessary arm, he's got plus legs, he's not scared in the pocket, he doesn't seem mentally phased.
But there are only so many times the offense sucks, and the post analysis shows plays out there he misses or never sees.
He's a quarterback from central casting, playing the part of a quarterback, who in point-of-fact, isn't a very good one.
Yep
Play great football with a bad OL and skill playerz or we’ll keep drafting QBs until we find Mahomez!
Too funny.
The rookie field downfield passing was a small sample and probably an exception and not the rule. Warren Sharp posted this the other day:
his 33% completion rate was the worst of any QB who was their team's Week 1 starter since 2020
of 129 QBs w 35+ att the last 3 yrs, he ranked:
#128 in comp %
#127 in success rate
#124 in EPA/att
You said the magic words. Welcome to the clubhouse!
To the left you can enjoy our selection of Charlotte Latin School highlights on repeat.
Sadly that was lost on too many
It is interesting how many of the posters who come here and make excuses after excuse for Jones are the same ones who made excuse after excuse for the moron who drafted him. On one hand I admire the complete and total love they feel for anyone the Giants have let into the building at any point in their careers, but you just can’t take what they say seriously. Their affection blinds them to facts.
He's got the necessary arm, he's got plus legs, he's not scared in the pocket, he doesn't seem mentally phased.
I'd modify that slightly: my impressions have been that, yes, he's not mentally phased as in 'scared', or to use JR's famous expression skittish, but he is phased in that he's tight, uptight at what might or might not unfold for him. He is anything but relaxed looking to me in viewing the defensive positioning and potential OL and playcall audibles; he strikes me as a bit frozen in what he is seeing, or not seeing. Compare his facial muscles with PM, Love, others when at pre-snap LOS, quite a contrast.
On the way to the combine next week for one my linebackers then to Boulder for some basketball recruiting
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How are you doing? Busy time of year? (:
On the way to the combine next week for one my linebackers then to Boulder for some basketball recruiting
Let us know what you hear while you’re out there. Combines always good for some rumors and scuttlebut.
Osi was very outspoken when they benched Eli. He said he was personally hurt. He went into all the OL issues Eli had to deal with for years and not having enough talent on the outside. The D was not doing its job as well. That "skittish" comment was made after 2013. The first year of the great destruction of the LOS that JR created.
He did say some good things about Jones. Jones for a lot of reasons (and he is one of them) just doesn't have the track record to get the benefit of the doubt imv. We will see what happens soon.
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In comment 16407146 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16407139 mittenedman said:
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I suppose this applies to the Golden Boy Herbert, too? Josh Palmer would probably the #1 WR on this team.
This is the NFL. No QB is delivering much of anything with subpar skills and subpar OL.
Justin Herbert could retire tomorrow and it would take Jones 3.5 seasons to catch him in touchdowns at his current career pace. That’s not just a supporting cast issue.
I thought we were talking about delivering something meaningful - like playoff success. For all of the great things Herbert's done, he hasn't delivered anything meaningful.
Herbert’s accomplishments so far outweigh the Minnesota Wild Card game
No, they don't, not if accept Osi's premise.
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In comment 16407258 ajr2456 said:
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Difference between Jones and Taylor, so he is overpaid by a lot
ajr, in an open competition, TT would beat out DJ.
Fairly easier id think
That’s about the dumbist statement that’s been posted on BBI.
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In comment 16407259 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16407258 ajr2456 said:
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Difference between Jones and Taylor, so he is overpaid by a lot
ajr, in an open competition, TT would beat out DJ.
Fairly easier id think
That’s about the dumbist statement that’s been posted on BBI.
We watched it with our own eyes
He was 6th overall. He is - by and large - a MUCH better player than Jones. As has been told by us many times here on BBI, a player drafted that high should be "elite", and "elevate the players" around him.
So therefore, he should be doing MUCH better than Jones. But last time I checked, he has exactly as many playoff wins as Jones.
But here come the excuses by the JHFC: he's had bad OL, bad coaching, not a great defense, blah blah blah. He's had not one but TWO top WR and a top 3 all around RB and he's an elite talent, yet he's done nothing from a playoff success standpoint.
But when the "DJFC" offers up the same legit excuses, that get quickly dismissed as bullshit.
Given how hyped up Hebert was coming out of school, he's a bust until further notice.
But I expect the JHFC will come to the rescue soon enough.
But some of them will continue to bash on Jones, quoting former NYG players with damaging comments - even though it wasn't the full quote - just in the quest to push their narrative. I expect even some of them to continue to defend guys like Lamar, who has even a worse playoff resume than Jones and Hebert. But that's just how they roll.
So no QB in the last 3 years has had a bad offensive line?
Jones is not a good player; Lamar and Herbert have no bearing on any discussion with Jones other than "who the Giants could have had if they hadn't been run by morons".
Jones doesn’t produce and doesn’t win.
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You one throw passes over 10 yards when you have 1.5 seconds to throw. Maybe that stat forgot to include that part of the equation for Jones in the majority of his starts in 2023
So no QB in the last 3 years has had a bad offensive line?
We gave up the 2nd most sacks All Time. That’s not a bad line it’s putrid!
Jones doesn’t produce and doesn’t win.
And Herbert who I agree has talent has never won a playoff game.
The 2023 Giants aren’t top 3 and probably not top 10 in sack percentage allowed. Bad QBs tend to get sacked more. DeVito was also sacked at a higher rate than Jones, while also being second in the league in avoided sack percentage and was better than Jones this year. Jones got pressured 2 more times this year than DeVito, in the same amount of games.
You’re making Osi’s point for him.
The 2023 Giants aren’t top 3 and probably not top 10 in sack percentage allowed. Bad QBs tend to get sacked more. DeVito was also sacked at a higher rate than Jones, while also being second in the league in avoided sack percentage and was better than Jones this year. Jones got pressured 2 more times this year than DeVito, in the same amount of games.
You’re making Osi’s point for him.
Andrew Thomas play more games with Devito or Jones.
Context matters. How about who did ezudu and mackathen and mayfield play more with?
Our OL fucking blew chunks when Jones played. It’s ok to say it.
Wonderful. You ignored everything I just said. You think if Iosh Ezuedu was at LT instead of Andrew Thomas the numbers would be different? Or maybe if Devito had the great Shane Lemieux and Evan Neal blocking every game for him as well?
Again. Context matters. Add it some time.
Our offensive line was fucking putrid when Jones played. It’s ok to admit. WRs weren’t much better either.
Did anyone say the oline wasn’t bad when Jones played? You’re arguing things that aren’t being said.
Should Daniel Jones not have played better than DeVito did with a similar oline? Why were Taylor and DeVito better at avoiding sacks?
Never did I say Jones played well nor do I care. And yes you and others have said continuously he had adequate OL play. Which is a cares.
For as bad as Jones was last year - it could easily be argued that the OL was worse.
Again. Context matters. I mean I know some of these elite QBs would win with Matt Breida, Eric Gray, Marcus McKathean, Josh Ezeudu, Shane Lemieux amongst all the others practice squad players thrown into the starting lineup.
And before you line up your typical “excuses” nonsense. These aren’t excuses. These are horrific football players we started in the first quarter of the season.
Maybe the problem is our GM who allowed for this nonsense to happen. But hey we got Parris Campbell and China Doll Waller to bring some explosiveness - right?
You are not comparing apples to apples. DeVito played against really bad teams with a better line(marginally).
But it does not really matter. Jones looked like shit, except for the 2nd half of the Cards game. No doubt DeVito had the better oline combo and it does make a difference, but if you are comparing a starting QB to a UDFA 3rd stringer, then the argument is lost anyway(for Jones).
Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.
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Even if the circumstance were worse as you say?
You are not comparing apples to apples. DeVito played against really bad teams with a better line(marginally).
But it does not really matter. Jones looked like shit, except for the 2nd half of the Cards game. No doubt DeVito had the better oline combo and it does make a difference, but if you are comparing a starting QB to a UDFA 3rd stringer, then the argument is lost anyway(for Jones).
He’s insufferable. 3000 posts a week saying the same thing and avoiding facts that doesn’t fit his narrative.
The expectations of Jones should be higher no? DeVito didn’t exactly have a cake walk either. He played Dallas, Philly and Green Bay. Jones had Dallas, Seattle, SF, and Miami. Jones’ schedule was harder for sure, but the gap isn’t insane.
Go ahead with another 400 posts on this thread of the same thing. The majority of posters here who don’t care anymore cause you will say the same thing tomorrow.
Our OL fucking blew chunks when Jones played. It’s ok to say it.
Jones get pressured two more times in the
ajr2456 : 7:26 am : link : reply
Same amount of games.
RE: Jones get pressured two more times in the
JT039 : 7:30 am : link : reply
In comment 16407978 ajr2456 said:
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Same amount of games.
Wonderful. You ignored everything I just said. You think if Iosh Ezuedu was at LT instead of Andrew Thomas the numbers would be different? Or maybe if Devito had the great Shane Lemieux and Evan Neal blocking every game for him as well?
Good comparison there.
Never said that whatsoever - but keep up making up your same bullshit when you get exposed for not showing the whole picture.
Like I said - insufferable person who is never wrong.
Cant wait for 1,000 more ridiculous posts from you today. Maybe Eric will bitch slap you again like he did in the the other thread.
The nominal tailwinds DeVito enjoyed from a few better players were most certainly counteracted by the headwinds of being Tommy Fucking DeVito.
The expectations of Jones should be higher no? DeVito didn’t exactly have a cake walk either. He played Dallas, Philly and Green Bay. Jones had Dallas, Seattle, SF, and Miami. Jones’ schedule was harder for sure, but the gap isn’t insane.
You seriously can't make this up anymore. We pay Daniel Jones an obscene amount of money and we can't expect him to play better than the worst QB in the league (which is how he played in 2023 with below 32nd ranks) and we can't expect him to outplay an undrafted rookie free agent who lives with his parents. I'm done with these fucking people who insist we didn't give Daniel Jones a chance. We did better than give him a chance, we made him a 100 million dollar man. What a bunch of rubes for insisting he deserves more time. The only thing Daniel Jones was ever *best* at was he was the best at being terrible after signing a big contract. No big dollar QB was ever as bad a Jonesie.
Good comparison there.
The Seattle defense gave up 27 to Carolina the week before they dominated Daniel Jones. The vaunted Cardinals defense dominated Daniel Jones for an entire half. The Dolphins defense was averaging 30 ppg against heading into the Giants matchup, Jones led the Giants to 6 points prior to getting hurt.
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you hold Jones and Devito to the same expectations. Maybe well get a Jones revenge tour.
Never said that whatsoever - but keep up making up your same bullshit when you get exposed for not showing the whole picture.
Like I said - insufferable person who is never wrong.
Cant wait for 1,000 more ridiculous posts from you today. Maybe Eric will bitch slap you again like he did in the the other thread.
Because that isn't what happened, but ok
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The same one they gave up 34 to the Bucs the following week, and 30 the week after to the vaunted Panthers offense who just fired their DC?
Good comparison there.
The Seattle defense gave up 27 to Carolina the week before they dominated Daniel Jones. The vaunted Cardinals defense dominated Daniel Jones for an entire half. The Dolphins defense was averaging 30 ppg against heading into the Giants matchup, Jones led the Giants to 6 points prior to getting hurt.
And did Barkley play? Or Andrew Thomas play?
Again - context matters. Which you ALWAYS leave out. If your two best players aren’t playing - and a bunch of PS players are - your team is going to suck.
Holy fucking Christ - you’re clueless. Seriously.
Because that isn't what happened, but ok
Oh you got bent over and taken to the wood shed buddy. 1st round TKO.
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In comment 16408036 JT039 said:
Because that isn't what happened, but ok
Oh you got bent over and taken to the wood shed buddy. 1st round TKO.
Thats weird when he was completely wrong about the Mike Evans stuff and how comps are actually done behind closed doors.
He bitched slapped you. Glad you were able to recover and take this one you’re getting now since you literally made up shit I said because I countered with common sense that you never include.
I concede that the cowboys and 49ers games were bad situations for Jones but then he went up against the mediocre to mid defenses the Dolphins and Seahawks put out there and Jones was terrible. That was the real litmus test and he failed.
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In comment 16408027 JT039 said:
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The same one they gave up 34 to the Bucs the following week, and 30 the week after to the vaunted Panthers offense who just fired their DC?
Good comparison there.
The Seattle defense gave up 27 to Carolina the week before they dominated Daniel Jones. The vaunted Cardinals defense dominated Daniel Jones for an entire half. The Dolphins defense was averaging 30 ppg against heading into the Giants matchup, Jones led the Giants to 6 points prior to getting hurt.
And did Barkley play? Or Andrew Thomas play?
Again - context matters. Which you ALWAYS leave out. If your two best players aren’t playing - and a bunch of PS players are - your team is going to suck.
Holy fucking Christ - you’re clueless. Seriously.
Like I said, making Osi's point for him. If you're getting paid $40 million a year you have to get it done even with your RB hurt. What did Jones do in 2021 with Andrew Thomas? 2020? He had Saqoun and Thomas for all of 2022 and managed 15 passing TDs.
Having Andrew Thomas wasn't keeping him from throwing the pick six against Seattle.
Harbaugh should help JH. Jackson is a sometimes great regular season QB who continue to come up small in the playoffs. Maybe next year but hard to keep such a good team together.
If jones had Barkley and Thomas until he got hurt - it’s not unreasonable to think he would have performed much better than Devito. How much better? No one fuckjng knows.
But I’m pretty certain the gap from Andrew Thomas to Josh Ezeudu and Saquan Barkley to Matt Breida and Eric gray is quite large as well.
But if you and you’re little group who say the same shit in every thread think differently. Go ahead.
Is that when you say when Producer threads? Add context
He bitched slapped you. Glad you were able to recover and take this one you’re getting now since you literally made up shit I said because I countered with common sense that you never include.
First off you implied I said Jones didn't have a worse oline which was never said. Secondly, if you don't want things implied, then simply answer the questions - Do you have similar expectations of Jones and Devito?
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seems you don't understand the meaning of the word context.
Is that when you say when Producer threads? Add context
Stop flaunting what an ignorant fool you are. You are torching these threads and begging to be banned.
Goal posts are a shifting with still NO context from last year lol
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In comment 16408067 Manhattan said:
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seems you don't understand the meaning of the word context.
Is that when you say when Producer threads? Add context
Stop flaunting what an ignorant fool you are. You are torching these threads and begging to be banned.
What threads am I torching producer? One? Inmean it’s not like your blow fest for Caleb Williams on every thread is enjoyable.
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And never add full context.
He bitched slapped you. Glad you were able to recover and take this one you’re getting now since you literally made up shit I said because I countered with common sense that you never include.
First off you implied I said Jones didn't have a worse oline which was never said. Secondly, if you don't want things implied, then simply answer the questions - Do you have similar expectations of Jones and Devito?
When did I imply you said anything about the OL and Joes didn’t have a worse one? I literally asked you :-4 questions about it thst you totally ignored.
Stay on task.
Injuries fucking matter especially to your best players.
Should the eagles move on from him since he didn’t get it done at the end of the year? Of course not. But to discount them as major reasons why a QB can struggle is just being obtuse.
Oline - ( New Window )
Goal posts are a shifting with still NO context from last year lol
So we aren't allowed to count 2023? That's new one for the Jones cult. Nobody said when we signed him to an historic contract that we might have to give him a mulligan. Franchise QBs don't get mulligans.
actually I asked you questions that you ignored. Pretty prevalent ones too.
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To compare jones play to devito’s?
Goal posts are a shifting with still NO context from last year lol
So we aren't allowed to count 2023? That's new one for the Jones cult. Nobody said when we signed him to an historic contract that we might have to give him a mulligan. Franchise QBs don't get mulligans.
This makes zero sense. I am not a jones cult. I’ve wanted a new QB back in October you foolish troll. I think you were banned under Producer then and posted as NorCalGiant fan back then.
Tough to keep up.
But let's revisit the concept of good quarterback that we broached last week. If Jones was among that dozen or so good quarterbacks in the league, how *should* he even out the scale?
Ezeudu, Breida, Jones vs.
Thomas, Barkley, DeVito
I'd argue the quarterback is such an outsized contributor, a good quarterback would offset a bad lineman and running back. Is that fair?
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. Oline - ( New Window )
actually I asked you questions that you ignored. Pretty prevalent ones too.
How is saying the offensive line was putrid for Jones and Devito avoiding the question?
I even gave the pressure stats. Jones got 2 more pressures in the same amount of games. TWO!
The offensive line was putrid for both players, it doesn't matter what the combinations were. Maybe guys like Ezedu and Neal were better than Devito playing with Phillips and Pugh.
So now that it's settled the offensive line was bad for both players, do you have the same set of expectations for Devito and Jones?
But let's revisit the concept of good quarterback that we broached last week. If Jones was among that dozen or so good quarterbacks in the league, how *should* he even out the scale?
Ezeudu, Breida, Jones vs.
Thomas, Barkley, DeVito
I'd argue the quarterback is such an outsized contributor, a good quarterback would offset a bad lineman and running back. Is that fair?
Over a course of a season - I would agree with you. A handful of games is different. Would you argue that most QBs would perform worse without their best players?
Look at Dobbs with Minny and Browning from Cincy - they had some initial success early on - then struggled even with some really good players once film got out on them.
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In comment 16408090 ajr2456 said:
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. Oline - ( New Window )
actually I asked you questions that you ignored. Pretty prevalent ones too.
How is saying the offensive line was putrid for Jones and Devito avoiding the question?
I even gave the pressure stats. Jones got 2 more pressures in the same amount of games. TWO!
The offensive line was putrid for both players, it doesn't matter what the combinations were. Maybe guys like Ezedu and Neal were better than Devito playing with Phillips and Pugh.
So now that it's settled the offensive line was bad for both players, do you have the same set of expectations for Devito and Jones?
Because jones OL could be argued was a lot worse. And I tried showing it by using your stat.
And what if Ezeudu and the other schleps were worse??? You don’t know.
I am going to make a very bold claim. And you can argue this if you want. Andrew Thomas is a much better LT than Josh Ezeudu. Therefore - jones probably would have seen less pressure from his blind side and probably would have played at least a little better.
Now if Ezeudu played for Devito - I would argue he gets pressured more and therefore may have been sacked or played worse.
I know those are bold claims. Very bold. But I am gonna stick with them.
You just assume. Not a good philosophy.
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In comment 16408079 JT039 said:
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To compare jones play to devito’s?
Goal posts are a shifting with still NO context from last year lol
So we aren't allowed to count 2023? That's new one for the Jones cult. Nobody said when we signed him to an historic contract that we might have to give him a mulligan. Franchise QBs don't get mulligans.
This makes zero sense. I am not a jones cult. I’ve wanted a new QB back in October you foolish troll. I think you were banned under Producer then and posted as NorCalGiant fan back then.
Tough to keep up.
It doesn't make sense to have high expectations for your $100M QB? You want to get rid of Jones? Then what are you arguing about? This is troll behavior. You are just arguing for the sake of it. Seems you agree with ajr, then. What's your actual opinion?
The pressure stats are what they are. Even if you want to say Jones has marginally worse offensive line he performed significantly worse than an UDFA rookie. At a minimum he should have performed at the same level of DeVito.
Which is Osi’s point.
The offensive line was bad all year. So were the quarterbacks, but one quarterback was significantly worse than the other two.
Don’t add that type of context, Greg. Data doesn’t matter.
You know it was in garbage time right moron?
He led us ro a whopping 3 points is context?
lol.
But the data!!!
Nobody is allowed to assume but you. Daniel Jones would have had a good season if Thomas didn’t get hurt. And Ezeudu/Neal is confirmed worse than having a guy off the couch and Phillips at RT.
Except Pugh was rated one of the Giants worst Olineman. Both lines were bad. Jones still should have outperformed DeVito, even if slightly. Not sure how that’s even debatable. DeVito is going to be running a sandwich shop in 3 years.
Nobody is allowed to assume but you. Daniel Jones would have had a good season if Thomas didn’t get hurt. And Ezeudu/Neal is confirmed worse than having a guy off the couch and Phillips at RT.
Except Pugh was rated one of the Giants worst Olineman. Both lines were bad. Jones still should have outperformed DeVito, even if slightly. Not sure how that’s even debatable. DeVito is going to be running a sandwich shop in 3 years.
Here you go making up shit again. Did I ever once say jones was good or would have been good? No. I said jones should perform better than Devito. But they didn’t have the same players. They didn’t play against the same teams. Variables matter. I said he would have performed better with his two best offensive players? What a fucking shock right? Well maybe for you…
This isnt the first time you made up shit in this thread so clearly your flustered that you were proven wrong again. Grow the fuck up already.
And data does matter - just next time - use it with same variables. Missing the teams two best offensive players makes a massive difference. Despite your continuous omitting of it.
And anyone comparing him to Herbert is either blind or truly delusional. They are in different stratospheres.
But let's revisit the concept of good quarterback that we broached last week. If Jones was among that dozen or so good quarterbacks in the league, how *should* he even out the scale?
Ezeudu, Breida, Jones vs.
Thomas, Barkley, DeVito
I'd argue the quarterback is such an outsized contributor, a good quarterback would offset a bad lineman and running back. Is that fair?
Over a course of a season - I would agree with you. A handful of games is different. Would you argue that most QBs would perform worse without their best players?
Look at Dobbs with Minny and Browning from Cincy - they had some initial success early on - then struggled even with some really good players once film got out on them.
I think that's true and it's why the Giants went back to Taylor.
To me the real analogue is Taylor. I think all things equal, the sobering conclusion from last season is Jones is in the class of QB as Taylor.
And anyone comparing him to Herbert is either blind or truly delusional. They are in different stratospheres.
The comparison to Herbert was poking some fun at Osi's comment that Jones has to deliver, no excuses. (Basically - DO IT ANYWAYZ!) We know we've handed you a historically bad OL and bottom-tier skill players - but DELIVER!
I'm assuming "deliver" = deep postseason run.
No QB is going to deliver jack shit behind an OL as bad as the Giants had last year, paired with bottom-tier skill players. Look at Herbert. Some good stats and wow throws, but he hasn't delivered. Even though he has 2 #1-type WRs + Josh Palmer as his #3, who would probably be the #1 here.
That's why Herbert was brought into the conversation. He isn't doing it anywayz, either.
I got 4 hours of chemo now. I’ll make you feel better and say you “win”. Maybe you will shut the fuck ip for the rest of the day so people can actually post relevant stuff.
If you want to talk about arguing things that weren't said.
Dep - ( New Window )
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Miami too. And against Dallas, San Fran and Seattle. Where were his garbage time stats?
I got 4 hours of chemo now. I’ll make you feel better and say you “win”. Maybe you will shut the fuck ip for the rest of the day so people can actually post relevant stuff.
You're going to start posting relevant stuff?
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I think Thomas and Barkley had a marked impact on the offense. They are far and away the two best offensive players on the team.
But let's revisit the concept of good quarterback that we broached last week. If Jones was among that dozen or so good quarterbacks in the league, how *should* he even out the scale?
Ezeudu, Breida, Jones vs.
Thomas, Barkley, DeVito
I'd argue the quarterback is such an outsized contributor, a good quarterback would offset a bad lineman and running back. Is that fair?
Over a course of a season - I would agree with you. A handful of games is different. Would you argue that most QBs would perform worse without their best players?
Look at Dobbs with Minny and Browning from Cincy - they had some initial success early on - then struggled even with some really good players once film got out on them.
I think that's true and it's why the Giants went back to Taylor.
To me the real analogue is Taylor. I think all things equal, the sobering conclusion from last season is Jones is in the class of QB as Taylor.
For once - you and I are in agreement. Jones future looks to be of a pretty good backup. Now that there’s anything wrong with that. But he’s here one more year and hopefully gone.
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Did people watch him play this year? It wasn't like he was up and down. He played to the level of probably the worst quarterback in the league. How can you not be alarmed by that?
And anyone comparing him to Herbert is either blind or truly delusional. They are in different stratospheres.
The comparison to Herbert was poking some fun at Osi's comment that Jones has to deliver, no excuses. (Basically - DO IT ANYWAYZ!) We know we've handed you a historically bad OL and bottom-tier skill players - but DELIVER!
I'm assuming "deliver" = deep postseason run.
No QB is going to deliver jack shit behind an OL as bad as the Giants had last year, paired with bottom-tier skill players. Look at Herbert. Some good stats and wow throws, but he hasn't delivered. Even though he has 2 #1-type WRs + Josh Palmer as his #3, who would probably be the #1 here.
That's why Herbert was brought into the conversation. He isn't doing it anywayz, either.
Josh Palmer is a number 1 WR??
Herbert hasn't delivered? He has shown that he can play at the highest level, there is no doubting that. Jones has never proven that and has had an extra season to do it. That's the difference.
His injured shortened 2023 season would still be the best year in Jones career.
Finally something we agree on!
He may not have been referring to Jones placing blame, but rather everyone us (the "you all" meaning of "you").
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. Oline - ( New Window )
actually I asked you questions that you ignored. Pretty prevalent ones too.
Prevalent? Are you sure you know what that word means?
Did you mean "relevant"?
That's why I'm unconvinced by the "he didn't have Thomas or Barkley or Wan'Dale" argument. This kind of falls into the "tough shit" cateogry for me. He wanted that big $40 million number to parade around after 1 good season, so Schoen structured it like the Geno and Carr contracts that essentially function as 2-year windows. He forfeited the luxury of time and flexibility. For all intents and purposes, Schoen DID make efforts to build around him by bringing back Barkley, trading for Waller, signing Campbell, and drafting JMS in addition the Olineman he drafted in 2022.
You can say these acquisitions were bad, but we already have assistant coaches and players wondering why Taylor performed (according to Dunleavy). But the bottom line is that his contract doesn't provide a window for the Giants to provide a perfect environment for him before they have to commit more money and years to his contract.
Beat me to it.
True statement.
Very simple .
I thought I also heard him say DJ has all the ability and no way he can't turn it around.
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when did he ever blame anyone else?
Beat me to it.
Another victim of Jones Above Success Syndrome (JONES A.S.S.).
That logic doesn't compute on this board.
The thing is, time may eventually wind up on their side. It IS possible he learns to perform at his best consistently and puts his bad traits behind him. I just certainly wouldn't count on it whatsoever and feel like it's massively risky to do so.
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I can’t help but laugh that people still defend Jones. Buy then again, it’s a cult so I shouldn’t be surprised.
The thing is, time may eventually wind up on their side. It IS possible he learns to perform at his best consistently and puts his bad traits behind him. I just certainly wouldn't count on it whatsoever and feel like it's massively risky to do so.
I can totally believe him having a revival with another team, similar to how Jake Plummer had a couple of good years with Mike Shannahan. Given today's NFL and overall QB play and health, he'll be back on the field in no time.
It's basically over with the Giants though. That's just how it is sometimes.
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and he is correct. You have to make plays for 40M. And he does not .
Very simple .
I thought I also heard him say DJ has all the ability and no way he can't turn it around.
Oh, there are plenty of ways he can't turn it around.
Starting with he never had "it".
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In comment 16408500 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I can’t help but laugh that people still defend Jones. Buy then again, it’s a cult so I shouldn’t be surprised.
The thing is, time may eventually wind up on their side. It IS possible he learns to perform at his best consistently and puts his bad traits behind him. I just certainly wouldn't count on it whatsoever and feel like it's massively risky to do so.
I can totally believe him having a revival with another team, similar to how Jake Plummer had a couple of good years with Mike Shannahan. Given today's NFL and overall QB play and health, he'll be back on the field in no time.
It's basically over with the Giants though. That's just how it is sometimes.
There isn't one other NFL team that would go into next season choosing Jones to be their starter, even if we was available.
There isn't one other NFL team that would go into next season choosing Jones to be their starter, even if we was available.
He definitely won't go into 2025 as a starter, but say the Panthers sign him and Bryce continues to look like shit? Not hard to imagine him back on the field again.
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You one throw passes over 10 yards when you have 1.5 seconds to throw. Maybe that stat forgot to include that part of the equation for Jones in the majority of his starts in 2023
That logic doesn't compute on this board.
It's because it's not actually true.
The unfortunate victims of JONES A.S.S. seem to lack basic logic and reasoning skills.
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There isn't one other NFL team that would go into next season choosing Jones to be their starter, even if we was available.
He definitely won't go into 2025 as a starter, but say the Panthers sign him and Bryce continues to look like shit? Not hard to imagine him back on the field again.
I think he'll start in 2025, but be a backup and on his third team by 2026