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Kurt Warner - “You just don’t know until you know”

upnyg : 2/25/2024 9:14 am
Not sure this will make anyone feel better about picking a QB, but even Kurt Warner says he struggles scouting college QBs.

Makes it even more risky if we're talking about trading up. Its going to be interesting and I hope for the sake of the fanbase the Giants get it right.

“You just don’t know until you know” - ( New Window )
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/25/2024 9:17 am : link
No one is guaranteed to be a great pro.
Most of these QBs coming into  
JT039 : 2/25/2024 9:21 am : link
This draft are very talented. But they he majority will be doomed to fail due to coaching and team structure.

If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.
Situation  
mittenedman : 2/25/2024 9:22 am : link
is everything
IIRC, Sy said  
section125 : 2/25/2024 9:26 am : link
the two hardest positions to scout(for him) are QB and CB.
RE: …  
gridirony : 2/25/2024 9:26 am : link
In comment 16407448 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
No one is guaranteed to be a great pro.


True. But, they are guaranteed to be a failure without the 10 other offensive players lifting up the QB, and the QB lifting up the other 10 players. That along with coaching and play selection is a further guarantee of failure.

It is something the Giants have perfected for the past decade.
RE: Situation  
Giantimistic : 2/25/2024 9:29 am : link
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything


If Trent Green doesn’t get injuries we may be saying Kurt Warner who.
I think what this says is pretty important  
Rjanyg : 2/25/2024 9:30 am : link
What did the Giants know about Eli before they traded for him? Bloodlines, he elevated his mediocre team, his college coach gushed about him, his work ethic.

They went all in on Eli, and I will say it paid off. Even beyond the championships, this guy did it the right way, was an excellent teammate and repped the Giants in the most professional way.

With Jones, I think the Giants especially John Mara, see so many similarities, the with ethic, the professionalism, the toughness. However, we haven’t seen the results on the field in terms of winning. Can Daniel become a viable, consistent starter and get a team to the Super Bowl? I would think many of us realize this answer is no. He has injury concerns, processing issues ( which is his biggest problem IMO ), and now is highly paid with a good amount of pressure.

We will have Jones this year. I think the Giants are drafting a QB, most likely with the 6th pick. This will add more pressure. We will find out what Jones can handle.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/25/2024 9:34 am : link
Situation is huge. Look at Mahomes…he landed on the perfect spot. Sure, I bet he’d be great wherever he landed, but this great? I don’t know.
I agree 100% with him  
Biteymax22 : 2/25/2024 9:41 am : link
I don’t think a “sure thing” exists when it comes to QB prospects.

This shouldn’t stop you from drafting a QB though, and if anything, knowing there is a high failure rate at the position should make teams more comfortable with drafting over guys, adding competition etc… until they know they have a legitimate franchise QB.
Let’s just be honest  
thevett : 2/25/2024 9:49 am : link
If we draft a QB and he has to run for his life on every pass play, He’s doomed. In my opinion that’s why FA will be interesting.if the Giants spend money on at least 2 OL that might be telling.
RE: Let’s just be honest  
JT039 : 2/25/2024 9:52 am : link
In comment 16407465 thevett said:
Quote:
If we draft a QB and he has to run for his life on every pass play, He’s doomed. In my opinion that’s why FA will be interesting.if the Giants spend money on at least 2 OL that might be telling.


Got a feeling one of our second round picks will be a Guard.

Let’s renact an Eli Manning/Chris Snee 2004 draft.
RE: Let’s just be honest  
robbieballs2003 : 2/25/2024 9:54 am : link
In comment 16407465 thevett said:
Quote:
If we draft a QB and he has to run for his life on every pass play, He’s doomed. In my opinion that’s why FA will be interesting.if the Giants spend money on at least 2 OL that might be telling.


Ive been saying it for years now but our OL coach may be the most important offseason move we made/make. It hasn't worked out in foever but I think I remember starting to say this since Judge hired Colombo.
RE: Situation  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 9:56 am : link
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything


Finally someone who gets it. Let’s take Patrick. Ends up with on a team with one of the best offensive minds the games ever seen. Played behind Alex smith, a real professional for a season to learn. That team was basically a championship caliber team if not for some clock management issues. Playing with 2 hall of famers in their prime at 2 crucial positions TE and WR.

Take a look at Dak. Jumped onto a team that was a catch away from the nfc championship game with a wall of an offensive line and talent all around him.

You take those 2 guys and put them on other teams do they have the same success? Doubtful but who knows right?

Playing QB isn’t just about physical traits. When you “scout” WRs or offensive lineman it’s much easier to see the god given talent. You can see burst, power, agility etc. when you look at qbs it’s much more between the ears than physical talent. They can all sling it. You don’t get to the nfl with a noodle arm. All these guys can throw it. It’s the processing which makes it the most difficult position in sports to scout. Interviews are more important than the field work at the combine.
Exactly why you take more swings at the position  
Sean : 2/25/2024 9:59 am : link
The Giants have NOT drafted a QB since 2019. Negligent.
I’ll say it til the draft is over  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 9:59 am : link
Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants
RE: I think what this says is pretty important  
nochance : 2/25/2024 10:05 am : link
In comment 16407457 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
What did the Giants know about Eli before they traded for him? Bloodlines, he elevated his mediocre team, his college coach gushed about him, his work ethic.

They went all in on Eli, and I will say it paid off. Even beyond the championships, this guy did it the right way, was an excellent teammate and repped the Giants in the most professional way.

With Jones, I think the Giants especially John Mara, see so many similarities, the with ethic, the professionalism, the toughness. However, we haven’t seen the results on the field in terms of winning. Can Daniel become a viable, consistent starter and get a team to the Super Bowl? I would think many of us realize this answer is no. He has injury concerns, processing issues ( which is his biggest problem IMO ), and now is highly paid with a good amount of pressure.

We will have Jones this year. I think the Giants are drafting a QB, most likely with the 6th pick. This will add more pressure. We will find out what Jones can handle.



They knew he was the #1 rated player in the draft close to unanimously
RE: Exactly why you take more swings at the position  
section125 : 2/25/2024 10:07 am : link
In comment 16407472 Sean said:
Quote:
The Giants have NOT drafted a QB since 2019. Negligent.


Yes, because all their other positions were loaded with talent and didn't need help.
Someone has to get Warner  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/25/2024 10:16 am : link
GoTerps and Manhattan’s emails so they can help him w his draft prep. Who knows more about QBs than those two
RE: Someone has to get Warner  
Spider56 : 2/25/2024 10:29 am : link
In comment 16407487 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
GoTerps and Manhattan’s emails so they can help him w his draft prep. Who knows more about QBs than those two


My reaction exactly… after reading all the expert opinion on BBI , how can Warner still be clueless?
That's why I don't like the idea of trading future firsts and multiple  
Ira : 2/25/2024 10:32 am : link
seconds for a qb prospect when there's a good chance he will bust.
I think he is right  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/25/2024 10:50 am : link
but I think there have been many QB's drafted who could have performed better if they had more talent around them with outstanding coaching. Maybe not quite good enough in the end but still good enough to help a team make the playoffs. Then flaws would show up more.

Warner came into the league with four individuals who are now in the HOF including the HC. Holt may join them one day. I think two of his other OL were very solid 10 year pros.
In other news  
Spider43 : 2/25/2024 11:01 am : link
Water is wet?
RE: …  
eric2425ny : 2/25/2024 11:02 am : link
In comment 16407448 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
No one is guaranteed to be a great pro.


Exactly, I mean look at the 49ers. Talk about luck. You give up this huge haul of picks for Trey Lance and somehow end up with a solid starter with tons of upside with the last pick of the draft a few years later.
RE: I’ll say it til the draft is over  
armstead98 : 2/25/2024 11:09 am : link
In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants


And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?
RE: RE: I’ll say it til the draft is over  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 11:31 am : link
In comment 16407528 armstead98 said:
Quote:
In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants



And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?


Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.
RE: Situation  
Manhattan : 2/25/2024 12:28 pm : link
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything


If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.
RE: RE: Situation  
JT039 : 2/25/2024 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16407573 Manhattan said:
Quote:
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:


Quote:


is everything



If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.


And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.

This game is fun - isn’t it?
RE: RE: RE: Situation  
Spider56 : 2/25/2024 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16407599 JT039 said:
Quote:
In comment 16407573 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:


Quote:


is everything



If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.



And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.

This game is fun - isn’t it?


Point, game, set, match.
RE: RE: RE: I’ll say it til the draft is over  
Scooter185 : 2/25/2024 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16407538 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In comment 16407528 armstead98 said:


Quote:


In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants



And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?



Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.


Making the change in 2025 is unrealistic given how that draft class looks today. Also going into a season with a desperate need for a qb is how Daniel Jones ended up getting drafted by NYG. It's a need today, but it will be a desperate need in 365 days. Punting on QB this year just continues the vicious cycle of suckitude the Giants are stuck in.
How about we trade down but no lower than 12  
kelly : 2/25/2024 1:26 pm : link
and get Rattler or Pratt later in the draft?

I mean its a crap shoot anyway. See what Rattler or Pratt can do. Pick another qb in 2025 when Jones will be off the team.

I mean would Rattler or Pratt be substantially worse than Jones? And Giants would have the saved cap space to improve the team.
This thread  
Rjanyg : 2/25/2024 1:34 pm : link
Mahomes is the best QB and had the best situation

Also this thread:

You need to be surrounded by good coaching and talent to win Super Bowls.

Reality: you need a good QB, weapons, a very good O Line, a great defense and a competent coaching staff to win in the NFL.
RE: Most of these QBs coming into  
Jack Stroud : 2/25/2024 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16407449 JT039 said:
Quote:
This draft are very talented. But they he majority will be doomed to fail due to coaching and team structure.

If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.
Most times their college talent does not translate to the NFL. If the Giants draft a qb in the 1st rd and he isn't Eli it will set the franchise back 5 years. Daniel Jones is an excellent qb, fix the oline and get some wr's who get open and catch and he will shine.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll say it til the draft is over  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 3:34 pm : link
In comment 16407605 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16407538 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


In comment 16407528 armstead98 said:


Quote:


In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants



And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?



Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.



Making the change in 2025 is unrealistic given how that draft class looks today. Also going into a season with a desperate need for a qb is how Daniel Jones ended up getting drafted by NYG. It's a need today, but it will be a desperate need in 365 days. Punting on QB this year just continues the vicious cycle of suckitude the Giants are stuck in.


Stop gap vet. Forcing a qb is the wrong move. If you build the roster correctly can win with less than a stellar QB. Geno smith, Baker etc the list goes on.
RE: RE: RE: Situation  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 3:58 pm : link
In comment 16407599 JT039 said:
Quote:
In comment 16407573 Manhattan said:


Quote:


In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:


Quote:


is everything



If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.



And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.

This game is fun - isn’t it?


Haha exactly. Everyone on this board understands football is a team game. This isn’t golf or tennis or even basketball where one player makes a team from 8th seed to a 2 seed. The stupidity where people think a QB changes the entire roster is ridiculous. That’s why you build the roster and find the QB. For example Brock purdy on the 9ers or Jimmy G. Both QBs are okay they both wen to to the superbowl because of the roster and coaching.
You don’t see many high drafted QBs  
Rudy5757 : 2/25/2024 5:26 pm : link
Running for their life in college. Then they get to the NFL and usually drafted to the worst teams where they have to learn on the fly. I would say, most of the great QBs in this league were groomed and sat for some time before being tossed in. Rodgers and Mahomes come to mind. Stroud is on the opposite side but he had a solid offensive team around him to help him be successful.

If the QB survives year 1 without getting crushed I think they have a chance. I don’t think the Giants situation is good for any QB to have success
RE: Situation  
HomerJones45 : 2/25/2024 6:25 pm : link
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything
No, it is not. It is part of it, but not the whole deal.

Add to the list the offense the qb came out of (every Alabama qb looks great because their team is stacked every year. some of these qb's have never had to play under center), and the qb coaching the qb received in college. What is the kid's background? Pro football is a job with a lot of drudge work. Are they ready for employment or are they going to pine away for being the BMOC and all the excitement? There is a tendency to think that every qb's flaws can be coached away. Some college qb's received pro coaching in college and have already been "coached up"; their remaining flaws are their remaining flaws.

RE: RE: Most of these QBs coming into  
HomerJones45 : 2/25/2024 6:32 pm : link
In comment 16407615 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
In comment 16407449 JT039 said:


Quote:


This draft are very talented. But they he majority will be doomed to fail due to coaching and team structure.

If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.

Most times their college talent does not translate to the NFL. If the Giants draft a qb in the 1st rd and he isn't Eli it will set the franchise back 5 years. Daniel Jones is an excellent qb, fix the oline and get some wr's who get open and catch and he will shine.
Jack, he sucks. I've been a fan of this team nearly as long as you. Face the facts. This is like rooting for Earl Morrall or Norm Snead (may they both rest in peace) or Joe Pisarcik or Jerry Golsteyn or Scott Brunner because they are great qb's if only we'd fix [fill in the blank]. We screwed around for nearly 20 years at qb until they decided "oh yeah, this Simms guy is actually pretty good".

We are on our way to screwing around for another 20 years at this rate. You and are far too along far a long to wait out another 30 year championship drought.
This  
AcidTest : 2/25/2024 6:57 pm : link
is part of the reason I don't want to trade up for a QB. Fifty percent of first-round QBs bust.
Just to add to this thread as far  
Tuckrule : 2/25/2024 7:21 pm : link
“Needing a qb” or being “desperate”

Every single team wants to upgrade their QB play outside of maybe 5 teams. Charger fans don’t like Herbert. Jax fans think Lawrence took a step back and are concerned. Dallas fans think they need to upgrade from Dak to take the next step. A stop gap vet qb isn’t a bad option as long as the team/roster building is headed in the right direction
this is true at every position  
ElitoCanton : 2/25/2024 8:15 pm : link
Evan Neal was thought to be a sure thing. No one thinks now. You can't act afraid. If you do, you'll never address the most important position. Afraid teams don't become contenders.
His point on Stroud is right on  
SomeFan : 2/25/2024 9:05 pm : link
I remember reading last year about how Stroud was a risk to draft because he was slow and a strict drop back QB in a league going to more scrambling QBs.
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