Not sure this will make anyone feel better about picking a QB, but even Kurt Warner says he struggles scouting college QBs.
Makes it even more risky if we're talking about trading up. Its going to be interesting and I hope for the sake of the fanbase the Giants get it right.
“You just don’t know until you know” - (
New Window )
If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.
True. But, they are guaranteed to be a failure without the 10 other offensive players lifting up the QB, and the QB lifting up the other 10 players. That along with coaching and play selection is a further guarantee of failure.
It is something the Giants have perfected for the past decade.
If Trent Green doesn’t get injuries we may be saying Kurt Warner who.
They went all in on Eli, and I will say it paid off. Even beyond the championships, this guy did it the right way, was an excellent teammate and repped the Giants in the most professional way.
With Jones, I think the Giants especially John Mara, see so many similarities, the with ethic, the professionalism, the toughness. However, we haven’t seen the results on the field in terms of winning. Can Daniel become a viable, consistent starter and get a team to the Super Bowl? I would think many of us realize this answer is no. He has injury concerns, processing issues ( which is his biggest problem IMO ), and now is highly paid with a good amount of pressure.
We will have Jones this year. I think the Giants are drafting a QB, most likely with the 6th pick. This will add more pressure. We will find out what Jones can handle.
This shouldn’t stop you from drafting a QB though, and if anything, knowing there is a high failure rate at the position should make teams more comfortable with drafting over guys, adding competition etc… until they know they have a legitimate franchise QB.
Got a feeling one of our second round picks will be a Guard.
Let’s renact an Eli Manning/Chris Snee 2004 draft.
Ive been saying it for years now but our OL coach may be the most important offseason move we made/make. It hasn't worked out in foever but I think I remember starting to say this since Judge hired Colombo.
Finally someone who gets it. Let’s take Patrick. Ends up with on a team with one of the best offensive minds the games ever seen. Played behind Alex smith, a real professional for a season to learn. That team was basically a championship caliber team if not for some clock management issues. Playing with 2 hall of famers in their prime at 2 crucial positions TE and WR.
Take a look at Dak. Jumped onto a team that was a catch away from the nfc championship game with a wall of an offensive line and talent all around him.
You take those 2 guys and put them on other teams do they have the same success? Doubtful but who knows right?
Playing QB isn’t just about physical traits. When you “scout” WRs or offensive lineman it’s much easier to see the god given talent. You can see burst, power, agility etc. when you look at qbs it’s much more between the ears than physical talent. They can all sling it. You don’t get to the nfl with a noodle arm. All these guys can throw it. It’s the processing which makes it the most difficult position in sports to scout. Interviews are more important than the field work at the combine.
They went all in on Eli, and I will say it paid off. Even beyond the championships, this guy did it the right way, was an excellent teammate and repped the Giants in the most professional way.
With Jones, I think the Giants especially John Mara, see so many similarities, the with ethic, the professionalism, the toughness. However, we haven’t seen the results on the field in terms of winning. Can Daniel become a viable, consistent starter and get a team to the Super Bowl? I would think many of us realize this answer is no. He has injury concerns, processing issues ( which is his biggest problem IMO ), and now is highly paid with a good amount of pressure.
We will have Jones this year. I think the Giants are drafting a QB, most likely with the 6th pick. This will add more pressure. We will find out what Jones can handle.
They knew he was the #1 rated player in the draft close to unanimously
Yes, because all their other positions were loaded with talent and didn't need help.
My reaction exactly… after reading all the expert opinion on BBI , how can Warner still be clueless?
Warner came into the league with four individuals who are now in the HOF including the HC. Holt may join them one day. I think two of his other OL were very solid 10 year pros.
Exactly, I mean look at the 49ers. Talk about luck. You give up this huge haul of picks for Trey Lance and somehow end up with a solid starter with tons of upside with the last pick of the draft a few years later.
And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?
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Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants
And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?
Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.
If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.
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is everything
If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.
And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.
This game is fun - isn’t it?
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In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything
If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.
And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.
This game is fun - isn’t it?
Point, game, set, match.
Quote:
In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants
And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?
Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.
Making the change in 2025 is unrealistic given how that draft class looks today. Also going into a season with a desperate need for a qb is how Daniel Jones ended up getting drafted by NYG. It's a need today, but it will be a desperate need in 365 days. Punting on QB this year just continues the vicious cycle of suckitude the Giants are stuck in.
I mean its a crap shoot anyway. See what Rattler or Pratt can do. Pick another qb in 2025 when Jones will be off the team.
I mean would Rattler or Pratt be substantially worse than Jones? And Giants would have the saved cap space to improve the team.
Also this thread:
You need to be surrounded by good coaching and talent to win Super Bowls.
Reality: you need a good QB, weapons, a very good O Line, a great defense and a competent coaching staff to win in the NFL.
If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.
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In comment 16407528 armstead98 said:
Quote:
In comment 16407473 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Please get me Rattler with the second of our second round pick. If we can land Bowers/nabers/odunze at 6. Then take the best available offensive lineman/edge/corner or WR if we go bowers round 1. Then take Rattler. That kid can succeed. He’s got all the tools and he knows how to play behind a crap offensive line haha which is crucial if he’ll be on the giants
And what’s your QB plan if he gets taken before us?
Punt on the QB unless we can land Drake Maye at 6 which seems highly unlikely. I don’t like Daniels, JJ or the other prospects round 1. I don’t see the need to force the QB now but this regime probably does. Build the roster. We have holes all over. I’m in the minority but I believe Jones with a decent offensive line and some added weapons can produce at a high enough level to be a competitive football team. I’m not saying he’s a star but I’m just looking for good QB play. Jones was behind the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen after Thomas went down. The line that Tyrod and Devito played behind was light years ahead of what jones had to work with. Let Jones ride out one more year and make the change in 2025. To judge Jones off those few games last year is unfair. People forget that 2022 happened.
Making the change in 2025 is unrealistic given how that draft class looks today. Also going into a season with a desperate need for a qb is how Daniel Jones ended up getting drafted by NYG. It's a need today, but it will be a desperate need in 365 days. Punting on QB this year just continues the vicious cycle of suckitude the Giants are stuck in.
Stop gap vet. Forcing a qb is the wrong move. If you build the roster correctly can win with less than a stellar QB. Geno smith, Baker etc the list goes on.
Quote:
In comment 16407451 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is everything
If you think situation is everything you don't know football. Situation matters, sure. But talent matters more. Swap Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes, you think Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl? Nope. He'd lose his job.
And I can guarantee that Daniel jones would be a much better QB with that situation and Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t be as good or have 3 rings either.
This game is fun - isn’t it?
Haha exactly. Everyone on this board understands football is a team game. This isn’t golf or tennis or even basketball where one player makes a team from 8th seed to a 2 seed. The stupidity where people think a QB changes the entire roster is ridiculous. That’s why you build the roster and find the QB. For example Brock purdy on the 9ers or Jimmy G. Both QBs are okay they both wen to to the superbowl because of the roster and coaching.
If the QB survives year 1 without getting crushed I think they have a chance. I don’t think the Giants situation is good for any QB to have success
Add to the list the offense the qb came out of (every Alabama qb looks great because their team is stacked every year. some of these qb's have never had to play under center), and the qb coaching the qb received in college. What is the kid's background? Pro football is a job with a lot of drudge work. Are they ready for employment or are they going to pine away for being the BMOC and all the excitement? There is a tendency to think that every qb's flaws can be coached away. Some college qb's received pro coaching in college and have already been "coached up"; their remaining flaws are their remaining flaws.
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This draft are very talented. But they he majority will be doomed to fail due to coaching and team structure.
If we get a QB in the first round, I would make an argument that our picks in round 2-4 are just as vital. We lack so much talent on offense - that we need to get some impact players immediately.
Most times their college talent does not translate to the NFL. If the Giants draft a qb in the 1st rd and he isn't Eli it will set the franchise back 5 years. Daniel Jones is an excellent qb, fix the oline and get some wr's who get open and catch and he will shine.
We are on our way to screwing around for another 20 years at this rate. You and are far too along far a long to wait out another 30 year championship drought.
Every single team wants to upgrade their QB play outside of maybe 5 teams. Charger fans don’t like Herbert. Jax fans think Lawrence took a step back and are concerned. Dallas fans think they need to upgrade from Dak to take the next step. A stop gap vet qb isn’t a bad option as long as the team/roster building is headed in the right direction