So the older of my two daughters is a senior in HS. She has worked hard and done well in HS and on her SATs. Younger sister is 2 years behind so both will be in college for 2 years minimum.
First off, it feels like this almost doesn't matter, the acceptance rates are so ridiculously low. Her top 4 choices are IVY level - 5 - 8% acceptance level. You can be a top student and still be shut out. These are all reach schools for her.
Her target schools range from places like Michigan (mom is alum), Lehigh, GW - she has a fair shot at these places (I hope).
She has already been accepted to SUNYs Bing and Stony Brook.
She wants to work in govt, on the political side, possibly starting in law (Poli Sci major, possibly double major in Math). Her first choice is Georgetown due to its proximity to DC.
Without sharing what I earn in a year, its enough that I won't get any kind of need based aid but then footing the bill for $85k/year would be fiscally irresponsible. Multiply that by two kids, impossible. Plus they removed the calculation which accounts for two kids in college, why?
We have been contributing to 529s since birth which could cover all 4 years of Suny if thats the route she chooses. Nothing wrong with SUNY but tough to tell a self motivated kid, all your work has led here, she wants the highest office (Senator, Judge, Congress)
I know undergrad isn't as important as grad school, I'm just super frustrated at the incredible costs families are being tasked to pay for higher education. I would have been better off quitting work for a few years and getting need based aid. How are folks doing this?
Do I have my kids take out loans that they will have for 30 years? My goal has been to get them out of college debt free but dont know if thats possible. What a world we've created. /endrant.
I view college for my son like any other commercial purchase. He's a great kid, works hard, and I want the best for him. But when the time comes to get his first car, he's getting the Volvo, not a new Ferrari. We can't afford a Ferrari. Mind you, my son is 2.
Stony Brook is a top 60 college overall, and a top 25 public school.
If my son attended Stony Brook, I would have zero guilt about letting him down or disappointing him. Sending a kid to a fantastic school, where they will have outstanding opportunities, and you can afford is an amazing blessing and gift.
The marketing of elitism has created this ridiculousness that there are only 25 worthy colleges, and you've failed as a kid or a parent if that's not where you go.
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My daughters dream school was Georgetown. She was admitted early decision, and they offered no aid ($81k/year 4 years ago). She was also offered a scholarship at a large state school. I spelled out loan costs, and ultimately she took the free undergrad education. She wanted to go to law school so figured save the money for that. She thrived at UK and now her 529 along with scholarships will allow here to graduate law school with no debt. I would highly recommend taking the cheapest undergrad route
After touring Georgetown, GW, and Catholic and the price tag that goes along with them - my son has seen the light, UK and WVU are his current target school with UK being his preference. Law school being the ultimate goal. Good to hear that someone has travelled the path and had success.
One question - what was your daughter's undergrad degree and what kind of law is she looking to practice. That is currently the big topic of conversation with our son.
Been practicing over 15 years. #1 it does not matter what your child majors in during college in terms of getting into law school, or practicing law. The only caveat is if they want to do patent law, it is helpful to have a science/engineering background. They should major in something that they like and excel at. The reasons for that are twofold. First, they will want to get good grades to get into a good law school (it is more important where you went to law school than your undergrad). And second, they may change their mind, and they will want to have a useful degree.
Also uncommon to know what type of law you want to practice before even going to college. Such a specialized area with countless areas of practice, most of which are unfamiliar to a high schooler.
Went to public undergrad and graduated more than 20 years ago. I still see people my age who went the private route complaining about their student loan debt. One of the dumbest things decisions you can make IMO
There are a lot of fields where it's better to get two or three years of real work experience rather than to go to school for a couple more years to get a masters. And she can always work toward her masters while working after getting her undergrad degree. And in that scenario, many employers will pay for some or even all of her classes.
Good for him. The main thing is to realize that the El-Hi education establishment too often doesn't is that college is not, nor should it be the only way. Every kid is different. My daughter became a hair stylist and is very successful. Molly Querim is one of her clients.
My son went to local community college and graduated from Southern Conn State Univ. He's doing well. As JonC said, state schools are good deal.
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He starts his high school’s auto tech program next year and will graduate with an ASE certification. Get a job making good money while still a teenager, and he can save up and still go to college in the future if that’s what he wants to do.
Good for him. The main thing is to realize that the El-Hi education establishment too often doesn't is that college is not, nor should it be the only way. Every kid is different. My daughter became a hair stylist and is very successful. Molly Querim is one of her clients.
My son went to local community college and graduated from Southern Conn State Univ. He's doing well. As JonC said, state schools are good deal.
Glad to hear some kids are taking this path. I talked to my kids about it, but both will end up in four year colleges after HS graduation.
Four year college has mistakenly become a default path for many and it shouldn't be.
Just be sure to pick a school that is known for the selected field of study both for quality of learning and future career placement / networking. Save the top tier programs for graduate studies where one can often go for free (fellowships, assistantships, etc).
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In comment 16409135 STL Gman said:
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My daughters dream school was Georgetown. She was admitted early decision, and they offered no aid ($81k/year 4 years ago). She was also offered a scholarship at a large state school. I spelled out loan costs, and ultimately she took the free undergrad education. She wanted to go to law school so figured save the money for that. She thrived at UK and now her 529 along with scholarships will allow here to graduate law school with no debt. I would highly recommend taking the cheapest undergrad route
After touring Georgetown, GW, and Catholic and the price tag that goes along with them - my son has seen the light, UK and WVU are his current target school with UK being his preference. Law school being the ultimate goal. Good to hear that someone has travelled the path and had success.
One question - what was your daughter's undergrad degree and what kind of law is she looking to practice. That is currently the big topic of conversation with our son.
Been practicing over 15 years. #1 it does not matter what your child majors in during college in terms of getting into law school, or practicing law. The only caveat is if they want to do patent law, it is helpful to have a science/engineering background. They should major in something that they like and excel at. The reasons for that are twofold. First, they will want to get good grades to get into a good law school (it is more important where you went to law school than your undergrad). And second, they may change their mind, and they will want to have a useful degree.
Also uncommon to know what type of law you want to practice before even going to college. Such a specialized area with countless areas of practice, most of which are unfamiliar to a high schooler.
Appreciate the insight.
That makes a lot of sense.
One of the counselors at his school was in his hear about getting a degree in criminology or business depending what kind of law he wanted to practice.
Our other connections that we have to the actual law world gave the same advice as you did. Major in whatever you can get the highest GPA in (probably History for my son) and then study your balls off for the LSAT. The rest you figure out in law school.
So glad we have a no politics rule on BBI. 🙄
As an admin in a high school I see so many kids make the decision to go to a traditional 4 year college and it is just not the right choice for them.
Through the years I see many students enroll in high priced college institutions and treat it like 13th grade meaning, it's just what you do next. Unfortunately too many make it a semester, a year, a year and half and then realize it's not for them. They leave with no piece of paper and tons of student debt.
Technical colleges are really doing a much better job of preparing students for the workforce, setting students up for a career, getting them actual experience in the field right away as part of their programing and then actually getting them a job for a fraction of the cost and in many cases for free.
Auto, HVAC, radiology - students entering those fields are making more than I do within a few years of entering the work force and graduated in less time with less debt than I did - for sure!!!!
Binghamton has evolved into a high quality public university. The top quartile of students in the undergrad program are very smart and academically capable, basically equivalent to the students at nearby Cornell. An excellent choice.
Once you get to law school level, same deal applies.
The unfortunate reality is colleges do provide a very specific ROI but you need to evaluate them on where and what your children want to do. If they for instance want to study philosophy, there is no school that will help them post graduate. But if they know generally what fields they need to make the conscious decision as to whether the networking/placement is worth the increased debt load.
if you want them to be debt free, you can pay the loans over an accelerated period.
the system is 100 pct broken but one would still want to have kids reach for an aspirational school. if your daughters got into an ivy, you should consider all angles before saying no.
This is factually incorrect. Loans taken out by students is capped at a bit over $30k and likely no interest will be deferred.
I agree that prices are pretty insane. I would like to see more accountability with colleges if they are going to have people pay these prices.
Just be sure to pick a school that is known for the selected field of study both for quality of learning and future career placement / networking. Save the top tier programs for graduate studies where one can often go for free (fellowships, assistantships, etc).
^THIS. Forget the Ivy League schools. These are not affordable. Focus on mid tier schools that are highly ranked in the field of study your child is interested in. Many of these schools actually offer merit money to kids who work hard in HS. Many of these schools may have a big price tag, but you they will offer good money to bring the cost closer to in-state schools.
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most of these have deferred or zero interest while the student is in school, this is better than you taking a loan.
if you want them to be debt free, you can pay the loans over an accelerated period.
the system is 100 pct broken but one would still want to have kids reach for an aspirational school. if your daughters got into an ivy, you should consider all angles before saying no.
This is factually incorrect. Loans taken out by students is capped at a bit over $30k and likely no interest will be deferred.
There are definitely loans that interest can be deferred while in school, and subsidized loans where a local or state or US government pays the interest. Google it.
The point was not this, it was that loans taken in the name of the student will be advantageous over a loan taken by the parent unless HELOC or loan that has tax advantages.
The parents can easily pay these loans if his desire is to have his kids debit free.
The thing to look though is the variety of aid packages that the schools offer. This is a way for a lot of schools to entice applications. I have seen things as crazy as an underrepresented student grant given to a student because they were out of state. So look for these options at each place. And you can negotiate going in because schools base much of their reporting on incoming first year students.
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Have her take loans that she can't afford from the Government, which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and then wait to have them forgiven in return for her vote. It's the American way.
So glad we have a no politics rule on BBI. 🙄
Political posts are absolutely allowed on this site. You just have to know what to post and how to post it.
Now, 30 years later, college costs are completely out of control and people are drowning in debt. Colleges got greedy and it's going to be hard to unfuck the system.
We forced both of our kids to go to college and take loans and I said I'd pay for all A's and B's but C's and D's they were on their own.
Of course that didn't work and we ended up paying for all of it but that's $250K in cold cash I'll never see and I wish they both would have gone to what is still a great American bargain, the 2 year community college. You can go wherever you want from there generally.
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My daughters dream school was Georgetown. She was admitted early decision, and they offered no aid ($81k/year 4 years ago). She was also offered a scholarship at a large state school. I spelled out loan costs, and ultimately she took the free undergrad education. She wanted to go to law school so figured save the money for that. She thrived at UK and now her 529 along with scholarships will allow here to graduate law school with no debt. I would highly recommend taking the cheapest undergrad route
After touring Georgetown, GW, and Catholic and the price tag that goes along with them - my son has seen the light, UK and WVU are his current target school with UK being his preference. Law school being the ultimate goal. Good to hear that someone has travelled the path and had success.
One question - what was your daughter's undergrad degree and what kind of law is she looking to practice. That is currently the big topic of conversation with our son.
My daughter majored I history with a minor in economics and political science. She excelled and did great on lSATs and has been offered multiple almost full tuition deals. So she use money for house after graduation or I can throw it in a Roth
Today, both kids have 6 figure debts and no realistic way out.
But they studied what they loved and are happy.
So there's that.
I myself had 60k in student loans after graduating from undergraduate and dental school. My parents did the best they could
It took me 7 years to pay off that debt
My point is that if your kids have their heart set and have the intelligence then send them to that school. Let them take out student loans and if possible help them pay it back
I believe it’s well worth it
Colleges are a sick price these days and I feel eventually the costs will come down when enrollment dips and the athletics will stop supporting these institutions
What goes up must come down
I myself had 60k in student loans after graduating from undergraduate and dental school. My parents did the best they could
It took me 7 years to pay off that debt
My point is that if your kids have their heart set and have the intelligence then send them to that school. Let them take out student loans and if possible help them pay it back
I believe it’s well worth it
Colleges are a sick price these days and I feel eventually the costs will come down when enrollment dips and the athletics will stop supporting these institutions
What goes up must come down
Except Athlete salaries.
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was in a similar situation as yours. Because of the costs (and getting waitlisted at her reach schools), she ended up going to Binghamton. She did very well and is now in med school. If your daughter is going to grad or law school, there is little reason to pay for a private school.
Binghamton has evolved into a high quality public university. The top quartile of students in the undergrad program are very smart and academically capable, basically equivalent to the students at nearby Cornell. An excellent choice.
This boy is literally in the top 1% of the nation and got shut out from almost every school he applied to. We were expecting scholarship offers from 2nd tier schools and instead he got waitlisted or outright rejected with a near perfect SAT score and a 100 GPA in a top 50 HS in the country.
Ultimately, we were happy he landed in Binghamton. But, to was a tough pill to swallow initially. Now, he is talking about potentially graduating in 3 years next year.
I get paid fine, but my kids need skin in the game on everything or I wont contribute. I make them take a loan and a small annual contribution...equals about $10k/year from them max with the loan. My youngest chose a less expensive college so I dropped her cash annual contribution to $2500/yr.
All my kids could have gone to $75k plus schools but they chose not to. They wanted private, small Christian colleges.
The two older ones already completed their Masters at larger colleges at their expense.
That's my limitation. Ive had 529s which I regret, as I did better saving in private brokerage accounts for the remainder.
My opinion on college tuition has changed over the years. I once thought it was a 100% must, now I'd advocate for students to look into a technical school or go into a trade. No loans, no to little capital to invest and make really good money early in your career.
Lots of students have $100k+ in debt and are struggling.
I myself had 60k in student loans after graduating from undergraduate and dental school. My parents did the best they could
It took me 7 years to pay off that debt
My point is that if your kids have their heart set and have the intelligence then send them to that school. Let them take out student loans and if possible help them pay it back
I believe it’s well worth it
Colleges are a sick price these days and I feel eventually the costs will come down when enrollment dips and the athletics will stop supporting these institutions
What goes up must come down
or worse, the institution is supporting athletics. UCONN is bleeding money because of its idiotic fantasy that it is a legit D1 football school.
2) The decision may come down to values. As a career private school teacher, with a wife who taught elementary school, we had very little income, and yet qualified for surprisingly little aid. (Because of our children's choice of school and major.) Basically it meant that in retirement we would have very little money. For us, it was all about sacrificing everything for our children to have the best education possible. But that's because we're teachers and value education above almost everything else.
3) With every fiber of my being, I recommend that your children take a gap year between HS and college. Divide the 15-month stretch from June to the following September into three 5-month terms or five 3-month terms, and plan a mix of jobs, internships, volunteer work and self-education or low-budget travel. Regardless of what they choose to study in college, they'll entering it knowing more about themselves, the world, and perhaps even what they want to get out of their education and beyond, than they would if they just take a summer job, hang out with their friends, and begin classes a few months after their HS graduation.
We have never thought of the military option before, I will ask her to research it with her school counselor. My background just values education so highly its tough to break the stereotype but these are trying times.
Two directions she may consider - any and all government, political work - or specialize in one or a few policy areas. The wonks do a lot of the real work.
RE: undergrad work, you can add value to the 4 year degree with specialized skills (e.g., GIS proficiency) and as I stated earlier - internships.
My granddaughter went an HBCU, and she interned in Congress. They all told her law school or a masters were necessary to go further. She's in UVa Law School now.
RE: loans - there are many opportunities for getting tuition reimbursed depending on what sector you're in. Govt. work has some opportunities.
Don't underestimate SUNYs. But, I would be lying if I said that the name on the diploma doesn't matter. Four years can be cut down through summer school and I am assuming she has taken some AP courses.
I would recommend getting a good general foundation for 2 years before deciding on a concentrated course of study. Top Schools or Ivies? Unless they seriously plan on a course of studies with documented demand and high potential earnings, I would not recommend. Simply not a good investment and a better option would be a state school. $85,000 per year for the prestige of a top school is a steep price to pay.
Our years of paying college tuitions were 1997-2005 - that's a long time ago, when average tuitions were in the $20,000 - $30,000 range. How did we do it? Lucky to have an affordable house we bought in the pre-inflation mid-1970's, saved like crazy, spent like misers and basically had 2 incomes - lived on mine, spent my wife's on tuition.
I really feel for today's parents - don't know how they do it.
My son is a high school junior, and my wife and I both agree that he SHOULD have some college debt. Not most of it, but I saw so many kids on free rides not take it seriously. The people I saw take college the most seriously? The ones who both worked and paid their own way.
Our goal is to leave him with no more than 20k of college debt (undergrad). He needs to have some skin in the game.
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There will be plenty for a state college education, and a start on a home, car, etc. But, if the pricetag is well above that level, he'll probably have to pitch in with student loans.
My son is a high school junior, and my wife and I both agree that he SHOULD have some college debt. Not most of it, but I saw so many kids on free rides not take it seriously. The people I saw take college the most seriously? The ones who both worked and paid their own way.
Our goal is to leave him with no more than 20k of college debt (undergrad). He needs to have some skin in the game.
100%, he will need to have skin in the game. Before he was born we started stuffing his college fund, and since he could walk he's been putting dollars and coins into his bank, and hasn't asked to spend a penny yet. I put myself through SUNY working in 100 degree warehouses, nights at IBM, pumped gas, laundromat, you name it. He will contribute, no better way to find understanding, lol.
So far, oldest graduated and is doing well (Full Stack Developer)
Middle Daughter will graduate with a Masters in Stats in May.
Youngest will have his Bachelors in Math next year.
Also, my wife is working on her MSW.
ALL Binghamton U, Not a fekkin DIME in student loans. (Being a local helps. No housing costs)
We simply never saw the value of setting a kid back a decade in student loans for a fancier Degree.
My oldest was a very good student with a hiccup year in high school which meant little assistance. He had enough AP credits to need one year of community college and transferred to Maryland to complete undergrad and is now being paid to attend GA Tech as a Graduate Fellow. As soon as he was at GA Tech his undergrad institution no longer mattered. The final school is the one that matters.
My youngest was top 10 student in HS with leadership and extracurriculars. Went early decision at a top private school and got in. Between merit and financial assistance it made sense even with some loans.
The bottom line is that unless yor kid gets into a ND, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Michigan or Ivy school they are better off with not acquiring debt and should go in state.
As a side note my daughter is doing a semester in Australia at the University of New South Wales. 60,000 students and most are from the Sydney area and commute. About 15% live on campus. Kids in Australia attend their local universities.
But yes, I'd avoid any debt. My kids will both be in SC state schools next year and we are in-state so its a bargain compared to other so called higher learning institutions.
The push for "everyone should go to college" seemed like a great idea but then when "everyone" did, college became more expensive, we subsidized student debt and degrees became more of a commodity. If you just have a degree and debt, you're hamstrung. There's a reason why younger folks have trouble getting started these days and why student debt is such a big topic.
I told my kids that they need to a) get a degree that is a step to skills you will be paid for, otherwise, don't do it. And b) they go to the most cost effective institution for their major. My daughter got into more expensive schools but is happy at UConn where we get free tuition (wife works for Uconn). She will graduate with a masters in a year, be ready to work and will have only the federal guaranteed loans. My son is at URI studying where we get instate rates and we should be able to get him through with the same minimal loans. They both got into more expensive places with ostensibly higher academic profiles and we took the more cost effective option.
So my approach and my advice is to be highly skeptical of the marginal increase of value of a private school over the value of a much cheaper instate option. IMO, the risk of the excess debt not being worth it is really high.
I went to RPI in the 80s for engineering and would never pay the sticker price today. I'd go to UConn.
I suspect a 1st Class education can be done in 3 years and between 85-100 credit hours. Using AP courses and summer school, internship credits - could be cut down to 2.5
I suspect a 1st Class education can be done in 3 years and between 85-100 credit hours. Using AP courses and summer school, internship credits - could be cut down to 2.5
I have very mixed emotions in this thread. We are thrilled with the path he is on, but demoralized at the same time. Demoralized that a kid in the top 1% of the country, literally, got no love from most schools (Ivy, top tier, tier 2, legacy), no aid, etc. We are firmly middle class, struggling to stay afloat right now, yet FAFSA spits out an unrealistic family obligation of over $20K per year, and considers loans as the only viable financial aid. The reality is we recognize we have done a shitty job, had a 529 that only covered part of year 1, can't pay for a state school and our son, who is a genius and we believe destined for big things, will graduate with almost all 4 years in debt. That leaves a bleak outlook for our next two. This thread has me feeling like a complete failure and has me depressed, yet I am still oddly drawn to it.
It is not customer oriented
This is exactly it for my son. He's a smart kid - his best grades have been in his advanced classes, history and science - but he's just not a bookish sort. He likes working with his hands. He's got a knack for figuring out mechanical problems. It's been him, not me, who has fixed our riding mower, for example. Me, I get frustrated and throw up my hands with this stuff, but he doggedly keeps trying different things till he figures it out.
College just doesn't make sense for him, at least at this stage. It would be a waste of time and money.
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As an admin in a high school I see so many kids make the decision to go to a traditional 4 year college and it is just not the right choice for them.
This is exactly it for my son. He's a smart kid - his best grades have been in his advanced classes, history and science - but he's just not a bookish sort. He likes working with his hands. He's got a knack for figuring out mechanical problems. It's been him, not me, who has fixed our riding mower, for example. Me, I get frustrated and throw up my hands with this stuff, but he doggedly keeps trying different things till he figures it out.
College just doesn't make sense for him, at least at this stage. It would be a waste of time and money.
It is not customer oriented
Thank G-d for Binghamton!