So the older of my two daughters is a senior in HS. She has worked hard and done well in HS and on her SATs. Younger sister is 2 years behind so both will be in college for 2 years minimum.
First off, it feels like this almost doesn't matter, the acceptance rates are so ridiculously low. Her top 4 choices are IVY level - 5 - 8% acceptance level. You can be a top student and still be shut out. These are all reach schools for her.
Her target schools range from places like Michigan (mom is alum), Lehigh, GW - she has a fair shot at these places (I hope).
She has already been accepted to SUNYs Bing and Stony Brook.
She wants to work in govt, on the political side, possibly starting in law (Poli Sci major, possibly double major in Math). Her first choice is Georgetown due to its proximity to DC.
Without sharing what I earn in a year, its enough that I won't get any kind of need based aid but then footing the bill for $85k/year would be fiscally irresponsible. Multiply that by two kids, impossible. Plus they removed the calculation which accounts for two kids in college, why?
We have been contributing to 529s since birth which could cover all 4 years of Suny if thats the route she chooses. Nothing wrong with SUNY but tough to tell a self motivated kid, all your work has led here, she wants the highest office (Senator, Judge, Congress)
I know undergrad isn't as important as grad school, I'm just super frustrated at the incredible costs families are being tasked to pay for higher education. I would have been better off quitting work for a few years and getting need based aid. How are folks doing this?
Do I have my kids take out loans that they will have for 30 years? My goal has been to get them out of college debt free but dont know if thats possible. What a world we've created. /endrant.
2) The decision may come down to values. As a career private school teacher, with a wife who taught elementary school, we had very little income, and yet qualified for surprisingly little aid. (Because of our children's choice of school and major.) Basically it meant that in retirement we would have very little money. For us, it was all about sacrificing everything for our children to have the best education possible. But that's because we're teachers and value education above almost everything else.
3) With every fiber of my being, I recommend that your children take a gap year between HS and college. Divide the 15-month stretch from June to the following September into three 5-month terms or five 3-month terms, and plan a mix of jobs, internships, volunteer work and self-education or low-budget travel. Regardless of what they choose to study in college, they'll entering it knowing more about themselves, the world, and perhaps even what they want to get out of their education and beyond, than they would if they just take a summer job, hang out with their friends, and begin classes a few months after their HS graduation.
We have never thought of the military option before, I will ask her to research it with her school counselor. My background just values education so highly its tough to break the stereotype but these are trying times.
Two directions she may consider - any and all government, political work - or specialize in one or a few policy areas. The wonks do a lot of the real work.
RE: undergrad work, you can add value to the 4 year degree with specialized skills (e.g., GIS proficiency) and as I stated earlier - internships.
My granddaughter went an HBCU, and she interned in Congress. They all told her law school or a masters were necessary to go further. She's in UVa Law School now.
RE: loans - there are many opportunities for getting tuition reimbursed depending on what sector you're in. Govt. work has some opportunities.
Don't underestimate SUNYs. But, I would be lying if I said that the name on the diploma doesn't matter. Four years can be cut down through summer school and I am assuming she has taken some AP courses.
I would recommend getting a good general foundation for 2 years before deciding on a concentrated course of study. Top Schools or Ivies? Unless they seriously plan on a course of studies with documented demand and high potential earnings, I would not recommend. Simply not a good investment and a better option would be a state school. $85,000 per year for the prestige of a top school is a steep price to pay.
Our years of paying college tuitions were 1997-2005 - that's a long time ago, when average tuitions were in the $20,000 - $30,000 range. How did we do it? Lucky to have an affordable house we bought in the pre-inflation mid-1970's, saved like crazy, spent like misers and basically had 2 incomes - lived on mine, spent my wife's on tuition.
I really feel for today's parents - don't know how they do it.
My son is a high school junior, and my wife and I both agree that he SHOULD have some college debt. Not most of it, but I saw so many kids on free rides not take it seriously. The people I saw take college the most seriously? The ones who both worked and paid their own way.
Our goal is to leave him with no more than 20k of college debt (undergrad). He needs to have some skin in the game.
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There will be plenty for a state college education, and a start on a home, car, etc. But, if the pricetag is well above that level, he'll probably have to pitch in with student loans.
My son is a high school junior, and my wife and I both agree that he SHOULD have some college debt. Not most of it, but I saw so many kids on free rides not take it seriously. The people I saw take college the most seriously? The ones who both worked and paid their own way.
Our goal is to leave him with no more than 20k of college debt (undergrad). He needs to have some skin in the game.
100%, he will need to have skin in the game. Before he was born we started stuffing his college fund, and since he could walk he's been putting dollars and coins into his bank, and hasn't asked to spend a penny yet. I put myself through SUNY working in 100 degree warehouses, nights at IBM, pumped gas, laundromat, you name it. He will contribute, no better way to find understanding, lol.
So far, oldest graduated and is doing well (Full Stack Developer)
Middle Daughter will graduate with a Masters in Stats in May.
Youngest will have his Bachelors in Math next year.
Also, my wife is working on her MSW.
ALL Binghamton U, Not a fekkin DIME in student loans. (Being a local helps. No housing costs)
We simply never saw the value of setting a kid back a decade in student loans for a fancier Degree.
My oldest was a very good student with a hiccup year in high school which meant little assistance. He had enough AP credits to need one year of community college and transferred to Maryland to complete undergrad and is now being paid to attend GA Tech as a Graduate Fellow. As soon as he was at GA Tech his undergrad institution no longer mattered. The final school is the one that matters.
My youngest was top 10 student in HS with leadership and extracurriculars. Went early decision at a top private school and got in. Between merit and financial assistance it made sense even with some loans.
The bottom line is that unless yor kid gets into a ND, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Michigan or Ivy school they are better off with not acquiring debt and should go in state.
As a side note my daughter is doing a semester in Australia at the University of New South Wales. 60,000 students and most are from the Sydney area and commute. About 15% live on campus. Kids in Australia attend their local universities.
But yes, I'd avoid any debt. My kids will both be in SC state schools next year and we are in-state so its a bargain compared to other so called higher learning institutions.
The push for "everyone should go to college" seemed like a great idea but then when "everyone" did, college became more expensive, we subsidized student debt and degrees became more of a commodity. If you just have a degree and debt, you're hamstrung. There's a reason why younger folks have trouble getting started these days and why student debt is such a big topic.
I told my kids that they need to a) get a degree that is a step to skills you will be paid for, otherwise, don't do it. And b) they go to the most cost effective institution for their major. My daughter got into more expensive schools but is happy at UConn where we get free tuition (wife works for Uconn). She will graduate with a masters in a year, be ready to work and will have only the federal guaranteed loans. My son is at URI studying where we get instate rates and we should be able to get him through with the same minimal loans. They both got into more expensive places with ostensibly higher academic profiles and we took the more cost effective option.
So my approach and my advice is to be highly skeptical of the marginal increase of value of a private school over the value of a much cheaper instate option. IMO, the risk of the excess debt not being worth it is really high.
I went to RPI in the 80s for engineering and would never pay the sticker price today. I'd go to UConn.
I suspect a 1st Class education can be done in 3 years and between 85-100 credit hours. Using AP courses and summer school, internship credits - could be cut down to 2.5
I suspect a 1st Class education can be done in 3 years and between 85-100 credit hours. Using AP courses and summer school, internship credits - could be cut down to 2.5
I have very mixed emotions in this thread. We are thrilled with the path he is on, but demoralized at the same time. Demoralized that a kid in the top 1% of the country, literally, got no love from most schools (Ivy, top tier, tier 2, legacy), no aid, etc. We are firmly middle class, struggling to stay afloat right now, yet FAFSA spits out an unrealistic family obligation of over $20K per year, and considers loans as the only viable financial aid. The reality is we recognize we have done a shitty job, had a 529 that only covered part of year 1, can't pay for a state school and our son, who is a genius and we believe destined for big things, will graduate with almost all 4 years in debt. That leaves a bleak outlook for our next two. This thread has me feeling like a complete failure and has me depressed, yet I am still oddly drawn to it.
It is not customer oriented
This is exactly it for my son. He's a smart kid - his best grades have been in his advanced classes, history and science - but he's just not a bookish sort. He likes working with his hands. He's got a knack for figuring out mechanical problems. It's been him, not me, who has fixed our riding mower, for example. Me, I get frustrated and throw up my hands with this stuff, but he doggedly keeps trying different things till he figures it out.
College just doesn't make sense for him, at least at this stage. It would be a waste of time and money.
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As an admin in a high school I see so many kids make the decision to go to a traditional 4 year college and it is just not the right choice for them.
This is exactly it for my son. He's a smart kid - his best grades have been in his advanced classes, history and science - but he's just not a bookish sort. He likes working with his hands. He's got a knack for figuring out mechanical problems. It's been him, not me, who has fixed our riding mower, for example. Me, I get frustrated and throw up my hands with this stuff, but he doggedly keeps trying different things till he figures it out.
College just doesn't make sense for him, at least at this stage. It would be a waste of time and money.
It is not customer oriented
Thank G-d for Binghamton!