it is downright bizarre how a small segment of the fanbase still fawn over this game 14 months later. You would think the team has been on a chiefs-like run given how proudly some talk about that game. Why is that? Make it make sense
IF Jones played to this level EVERY game, we wouldn't be having discussions. (injuries not withstanding, but they are now the biggest issue).
The reality is, Jones has NEVER played to this level against a good defense, that can confuse him with disguised coverages coupled with pressure. He's not a quick processor, so he only succeeds against teams that are straightforward, easy to figure out, and give him time.
In other words, a perfect situation. Leading a team to the SB is NEVER a perfect situation. That's why his time should be up.
Yes we beat a bad Minnesota team in the playoffs 2 years ago
and we made the playoffs after the 2016 season, but is it really possible to call the last 10+ years anything other than embarrassing? Most of those years were hard to watch, we had the 3 QB sneaks game, the "don't throw the ball at all" game and a host of other football follies.
get the poison out. Get it off your chest... better out than in I always say.
I see this is the latest craze around here. 2022 was BAD. It caused us to lose in 2023. Playoff seasons BAD. FIRE BAD. MAAAHHHHRRRRHH.
I wish we didn't win in 22 so we could celebrate a cheaper cap portfolio and we could wax poetic about 7 straight seasons of no playoffs. There's just an empty feeling about only 1 straight season with no playoffs. Doesn't ring off the tongue does it. Hopefully we suck again in 24...gotta keep those books clean!
and imagine NYG actually have a good 2024 season too. imagine they actually luck into a 10 win season. I mean even the Browns get lucky sometimes. Even the Giants got lucky in 22. It could happen again in 24! Just be afraid of the big bad contract. If The Giants win in 24....god help us all because Jones may have actually played well helping them win games and he may not be cut in blood letting glory. They may even pay someone else big bucks. And then, it's all over. 2-3 playoff seasons and the QB is still here getting paid! The horror. The horror....
and we made the playoffs after the 2016 season, but is it really possible to call the last 10+ years anything other than embarrassing? Most of those years were hard to watch, we had the 3 QB sneaks game, the "don't throw the ball at all" game and a host of other football follies.
I've never brought this game up after that season, but The Vikings were 13-4 with 3 All Pros and 7 Pro Bowlers. They certainly weren't a bad team.
No one says the playoffs were bad, or beating Minnesota was bad
Just that it wasn't indicative of anything more than beating another significantly flawed playoff team.
Because that's exactly what it was. Basing any commentary on that particular game is foolish.
Perfectly stated. Kudos to Jones for playing well and doing what he had to do. It was a good thing. But it should not have been the basis for giving him such a big contract. If he had played well against Philly and put up the same type of game - then you can maybe argue the contract, but he diddnt.
He played well against the Vikings. Nothing more, nothing less.
RE: RE: Yes we beat a bad Minnesota team in the playoffs 2 years ago
The Vikings were 13-4 with 3 All Pros and 7 Pro Bowlers. They certainly weren't a bad team.
They were 13-4....with a negative point differential on the season. Had a bunch of very close wins and several blowout losses. That record was a mirage.
They could have done things differently. Maybe not sign Campbell and instead use that money on the OL but not sure a player was available to sign here that off-season.
The worst thing to happen was losing Thomas and Barkley over the first 2 games. YEs it's simple and yes that 2023 team wasn't winning shit even if those 2 don't get hurt, but the stink from last season isn't quite as strong and offensive if they don't get hurt. Hey think of it this way, those guys get hurt causing a cascading of losing and we're picking 6th in a 10 stud player draft. If those 2 stay healthy maybe we're picking 12th instead.
Need a good off-season. Too many holes right now. Not enough alphas stars and too many bad players. NEed some development from within and a few guys added that can solidify critical positions.
I want another 22 type season. This losing shit needs to stop first. Title aspirations can come after we establish some consistency here. Learn to walk first.
and imagine NYG actually have a good 2024 season too. imagine they actually luck into a 10 win season. I mean even the Browns get lucky sometimes. Even the Giants got lucky in 22. It could happen again in 24! Just be afraid of the big bad contract. If The Giants win in 24....god help us all because Jones may have actually played well helping them win games and he may not be cut in blood letting glory. They may even pay someone else big bucks. And then, it's all over. 2-3 playoff seasons and the QB is still here getting paid! The horror. The horror....
If you don’t see how that fluke ass game against a horrific defense set into motion the ensuing piss poor decisions then you need your head examined. That win absolutely has an effect on what happened in ‘23. But hey, maybe you’re right and the Giants have another mediocre season in ‘24 and back into the playoffs while having one of the worst offenses in football just like ‘22. Then you can bitc, moan and complain about other posters who have an issue with the Giants then giving Jones another extension after throwing 15 TDs again. They’ll have him locked up for a decade which is cool because, hey, the cap is a mirage anyways so who cares if they are paying asinine money to mediocre players? It’s all worth it to win a wild card game even if that means getting absolutely fucking embarrassed the following week! It’s all about the Wild Card baby!
I want another 22 type season. This losing shit needs to stop first. Title aspirations can come after we establish some consistency here. Learn to walk first.
I think it's fair to say most don't share your fondness for the random above average season in a decade of losing, or the myriad of mistakes that one season generated. Or the curb stomping the 2022 team took the very next week when we didn't play another flawed team.
Another poster said it perfectly yesterday. You guys are chasing a sugar high. Any immediate gratification and screw what it means long term for the success of the team.
I said it the day Dabol was hired I would sign up for a "Fassel-esque" like run here under Dabol. Yea it was painful and in the end we won nothing more than the NFC title which means we won nothing, but we did win games and Fassel at least stopped the bleeding from 94-96 Reeves.
I'd take that again. I know it would hurt but it's better than 2017-21 any fucking day.
2022 was not bad. Know the difference. We've seen plenty of bad that never leads to a fucking thing. Not all bad "rebuilds" end well. Most don't.
Keep building the roster slowly and for the long term. Look for upgrades everywhere, including QB. Don't over think shit. See good player, draft or keep good player.
I want another 22 type season. This losing shit needs to stop first. Title aspirations can come after we establish some consistency here. Learn to walk first.
I think it's fair to say most don't share your fondness for the random above average season in a decade of losing, or the myriad of mistakes that one season generated. Or the curb stomping the 2022 team took the very next week when we didn't play another flawed team.
Another poster said it perfectly yesterday. You guys are chasing a sugar high. Any immediate gratification and screw what it means long term for the success of the team.
But hey, fan however you want to fan.
Yea except I never said I want one random good season. I want good seasons. I would accept the bad season or two mixed in as long as it's not FIVE BAD SEASONS IN A ROW. We just went through that prior to 22.
This place...Are we really arguing about which is better?
You guys are obsessed with Jones. I will say it for you. 22 led to the DJ contract and it's all over now. No hope for the future because of a two year fucking cap hit. We'd be rocking down electric avenue now if DJ wasn't re-signed. We'd have 20 more million to spend which obviously means we'd sign some 20 million dollar HOFer in his prime and all our problems go away. AM i right? Nope. I am dreaming.
Reminder, we have cap room this very moment. Plenty. Jones likely comes off the books in a year relatively painless or at least manageable and his money is completely clean 2 years form now.
I like winning seasons. Winning begets winning. Losing leads to more losing more often than not.
We are arguing about whether the 2022 season did more harm than good for this team and fanbase. You disagree and that is fine. There is also another point of view.
IN hindsight, I would trade how much I enjoyed that game against the Vikings for not operating under the illusion that the team was actually ahead of schedule in the rebuild. It clearly wasn't. It was fool's gold and it had longer term repercussions.
no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
We are arguing about whether the 2022 season did more harm than good for this team and fanbase. You disagree and that is fine. There is also another point of view.
IN hindsight, I would trade how much I enjoyed that game against the Vikings for not operating under the illusion that the team was actually ahead of schedule in the rebuild. It clearly wasn't. It was fool's gold and it had longer term repercussions.
Just wait until they win 7-8 games in 2024 and talk themselves into rolling with Jones in 2025.
it led tot he most overstated piece of phoboia around here in years
Don’t realize how hard playoff wins are to come by. That game was a great performance by Jones, Barkley and the rest of the team.
It also likely would have changed nothing that happened after if the Giants went in there that day and lost.
Jones is not the answer, but Daboll and Schoen had been saying since early in 2022 that Jones had been doing everything they asked him to. He was basically given 2022 as a test and he passed the test in their eyes. Like it or don’t like it, that’s what it is.
2022 was fun, but the reaction by management to it made me very concerned we have the wrong guys. Another example of poor self scouting--it was obvious that team was far away.
No, the Vikings win was the only consequential win. Had the Vikings not fallen to the 3 seed, the Giants would have played SF and likely been dominated. The offseason would have gone differently.
I just can't throw back the only fish worth catching over the last 10 seasons, more or less.
If this regime cannot win going forward because they won too many games in 2022 they were fucking doomed from the jump. Cmon already. They never should have been hired here to begin with.
Another winning season would be nice. It would give us reasons to be rationally hopeful going forward.
no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
You and your analogies of eating calories and pushing cars off cliffs.
It’s fucking football, not a serious life issue. Some of you are so curmudgeonly it’s laughable.
but then NYG reacted as fans would in planning for 2023 and beyond, and it was another set of mistakes added to the pile. THAT'S what we don't want to see happen anymore. Fix the self-scouting, the philosophy, the cap, etc. Stop trying to win now.
no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
You and your analogies of eating calories and pushing cars off cliffs.
It’s fucking football, not a serious life issue. Some of you are so curmudgeonly it’s laughable.
When I read posts from some posters, it is clear they need shit dumbed down for them. I quoted what another poster said yesterday that I thought was a good analogy. I didn't realize we had very sensitive posters like you who were triggered by them.
I am sorry the world is hard for you and words hurt.
so what if DJ had the same stats same impact in 2022
but the defense was horrible and the team goes 7-9-1 instead of 9-7-1. And they still pay Jones.
We can play this stupid ass game all day. I am done.
Winning is good. Losing is bad. Losing is a toxic malaise that gets harder and harder to emerge from as the losses pile up.
If I had a dollar for the amount of times the Browns had a bad season and won the draft, won FA, won the HC hiring and still sucked balls, i'd be able to buy myself a martini.
Blame 2022. That's the new rallying cry.
I take it we are going to excuse Schoen and Daboll for another 3-4-5 years because of this line of thinking? After all, not their fault, right? They won too much early on in the process.
WHen do we move on from this? When they lose again in 24 and have yet another clean slate chance ? What if they win in 24? Then what?
and that's what I cannot resist in jumping into these threads.
Just fucking say it. It's Jones. You wish they sucked in 22 and Jones sucked too so they don't have to pay him for another season. Fine. It is what it is. Just be open minded enough to know that having some extra money for an off-season or two doesn't ensure a fucking thing. It doesn't even ensure you spend the money wisely even if it was the right move to make.
You will be free of Jones one day soon and then we can find something else to worry about.
We see the 2022 season very differently. I am not going to convince you it was bad for the team long term, and you are not going to convince me it was good for the team long term.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
In the NFL shitty inputs can sometimes result in ok outputs. It wasn't long ago that Blake Bortles's Jaguar had the Pats on the ropes in the AFC championship, or Case Keenum's Vikings were in the NFC championship.
The NFL is a league where 7 of 16 teams make the playoffs in each conference. After that, on any given Sunday...
Smart front offices can identify these types of situations, and dumb ones don't. The Giants didn't.
but then NYG reacted as fans would in planning for 2023 and beyond, and it was another set of mistakes added to the pile. THAT'S what we don't want to see happen anymore. Fix the self-scouting, the philosophy, the cap, etc. Stop trying to win now.
but then NYG reacted as fans would in planning for 2023 and beyond, and it was another set of mistakes added to the pile. THAT'S what we don't want to see happen anymore. Fix the self-scouting, the philosophy, the cap, etc. Stop trying to win now.
and that's what I cannot resist in jumping into these threads.
Just fucking say it. It's Jones. You wish they sucked in 22 and Jones sucked too so they don't have to pay him for another season. Fine. It is what it is.
I'll gladly admit it. Missing the playoffs in 2022 and ending the Jones era on that note would have been better than what happened for the LONG TERM.
I know long term thinking isn't your strong suit, you've made that evident repeatedly. And it's fine, you're not alone in that. You may as well be part of the front office, because they operate very much in the same way.
We see the 2022 season very differently. I am not going to convince you it was bad for the team long term, and you are not going to convince me it was good for the team long term.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Someone will win. The loudest. Doesn't mean anyone learned anything.
game against a 13 win team in a year they were supposed to be dogshit. Daboll was Coach of the Year. Schoen found guys in season like Hodgins, Moreau, etc who made plays. But stop the revisionist history and nonsense about who thought what about what that all meant. We enjoyed it. Very few thought we were on a Chief's-like roll. These are not mutually exclusive takes.
that fans whine about a playoff win, and constantly whine about winning too many games because they don't have as high a draft pick as they want
I have no issue confessing I desperately wanted a higher draft pick this year. And I was disappointed we won meaningless games to fall to the sixth slot.
Because I fail to see much difference between finishing 3-14 and 6-11, despite all of the efforts of posters to say that was a good thing for Daboll.
We see the 2022 season very differently. I am not going to convince you it was bad for the team long term, and you are not going to convince me it was good for the team long term.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Mike I hear where you are coming from. Maybe I am just arguing too but I do stand by my point that losing is rarely a good thing if ever. I also need to see how 24 shakes out before I lose my mind once again. I am sort of removed from the trauma of 23 season more and more so i start to possess more hope. I get the point your making. I also feel like it's an excuse for Schoen and Dabol and I am done giving out excuses other than injury.
And Jones had the same exact stats he’s not getting the contract. The Giants would have been in a position they could have made a trade up for a QB.
I'm pretty sure you are right. And it's damning if true, that Joe Schoen/Mara would squander $100M on the random occurrence of a single game outcome. It indicates inept critical thinking capabilities. Schoen starts to look like a stuffed shirt. He needs to chart a bold course now and not safety.
We see the 2022 season very differently. I am not going to convince you it was bad for the team long term, and you are not going to convince me it was good for the team long term.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Mike I hear where you are coming from. Maybe I am just arguing too but I do stand by my point that losing is rarely a good thing if ever. I also need to see how 24 shakes out before I lose my mind once again. I am sort of removed from the trauma of 23 season more and more so i start to possess more hope. I get the point your making. I also feel like it's an excuse for Schoen and Dabol and I am done giving out excuses other than injury.
And the argument I am making is not the winning is bad. Of course it isn't. What is bad is when winning a single game leads to poor self-scouting. Had the Giants failed to make the playoffs, I think they may have had a more honest internal discussion about where they were and how they needed to get to where they want.
We are sort of having two different arguments. I am not arguing losing is good. I am arguing it is useful when it forces you to be honest with yourself.
I am hoping (which I know is recipe for misery here) the Giants emulate the Knicks. GOod first year. Stepback in year 2 and then they found their way in years 3-4. Can only hope.
I am hoping (which I know is recipe for misery here) the Giants emulate the Knicks. GOod first year. Stepback in year 2 and then they found their way in years 3-4. Can only hope.
is that so many fans he don't realize that the biggest factor affecting the record in 2023 wasn't Jones, or the O line or the wide receivers, or the defense. It was the unbelievable number of injuries the team had to deal with, especially in the first half of the year and especially on the O line, where they could least afford it.
At one point Neal, playing on a bad ankle, had more NFL starts than the rest of the starting O line combined. Let that sink in. And then two of THOSE guys got hurt and undrafted practice squad players had to be plugged in. How many games did Jones, Waller, Barkley and Thomas play together because of all their injuries? Dex missed a game time then came back and played hurt, Williams missed a game and played hurt for a couple more before he was traded, Banks missed time, Neal played thru an ankle injury, missed a few games, came back and broke his ankle. Schmitz missed time. Taylor, Ezeudu, Phillips, McKethan, LeMieux, Robinson, Brightwell, Gano, Davidson, McFadden, Ojulari, Jackson, Flott all missed time. Some of them major time.
And yet, still, with all that, they won 4 of their last 7. And if they had started Taylor in the first game against Philly, they might have beaten the Eagles twice.
They weren't as good as their record in 2022, when everything broke their way. And they weren't as bad as their record in 2023, when every body seemed to break.
(who’s unquestionably better than Jones ever was) playoff game in Green Bay, it can’t be surprising when a GREAT postseason performance gets talked about a lot.
The Minnesota wildcard win was a moment. And only a week later
when they were soundly trounced by a true playoff-caliber team, the moment was over. And if you didn't realize the moment was over then, you damn well better have realized it that in that opening Monday Night Football game versus Dallas 8 months later.
Unfortunately that Minn game had the Jones contract repercussions that it did. But the Jones contract itself didn't cause what happened in the 2023 season. The players, coaches and front office did it to themselves in showing that they really aren't a competitive collective group yet in the NFL. They all need to be much better and/or they need to be changed out.
That is why many on here make fun of anybody that brings up the Minn game as anything meaningful.
(who’s unquestionably better than Jones ever was) playoff game in Green Bay, it can’t be surprising when a GREAT postseason performance gets talked about a lot.
Most fans consider the Minnesota game AND the Eagles game when we think about the 2022 post season. Jones was awesome against one of the worst defenses in the NFL in Minnesota. He was out of his depth the following week against a good defense.
The problem is the argument that Jones won the Minnesota game, but the team lost the Eagles game. You can't have it both ways.
I want another 22 type season. This losing shit needs to stop first. Title aspirations can come after we establish some consistency here. Learn to walk first.
I want to be like Dallas and Philly. They win all the time. I don't care if Dallas blows it in the playoffs again. At least they got there and their fans, though frustrated at the end, got to see them win a lot. and the crowd who says, "well at least we have 4 SBs". WTF does that have to do with all our losing seasons? I'm tired of it. I'll take a 12-5 season every year!
Jones is now NOT the same player he was in 2022. (which was mediocre at best).
A second NECK injury and ACL, make him damaged goods.
He would have to be a pro bowler to take a chance on at this point, and he certainly is NOT that.
Move on and stop with the revisionist history. It is no longer relevant.
The reality is, Jones has NEVER played to this level against a good defense, that can confuse him with disguised coverages coupled with pressure. He's not a quick processor, so he only succeeds against teams that are straightforward, easy to figure out, and give him time.
In other words, a perfect situation. Leading a team to the SB is NEVER a perfect situation. That's why his time should be up.
I see this is the latest craze around here. 2022 was BAD. It caused us to lose in 2023. Playoff seasons BAD. FIRE BAD. MAAAHHHHRRRRHH.
I wish we didn't win in 22 so we could celebrate a cheaper cap portfolio and we could wax poetic about 7 straight seasons of no playoffs. There's just an empty feeling about only 1 straight season with no playoffs. Doesn't ring off the tongue does it. Hopefully we suck again in 24...gotta keep those books clean!
I've never brought this game up after that season, but The Vikings were 13-4 with 3 All Pros and 7 Pro Bowlers. They certainly weren't a bad team.
Because that's exactly what it was. Basing any commentary on that particular game is foolish.
Because that's exactly what it was. Basing any commentary on that particular game is foolish.
Perfectly stated. Kudos to Jones for playing well and doing what he had to do. It was a good thing. But it should not have been the basis for giving him such a big contract. If he had played well against Philly and put up the same type of game - then you can maybe argue the contract, but he diddnt.
He played well against the Vikings. Nothing more, nothing less.
They were 13-4....with a negative point differential on the season. Had a bunch of very close wins and several blowout losses. That record was a mirage.
They could have done things differently. Maybe not sign Campbell and instead use that money on the OL but not sure a player was available to sign here that off-season.
The worst thing to happen was losing Thomas and Barkley over the first 2 games. YEs it's simple and yes that 2023 team wasn't winning shit even if those 2 don't get hurt, but the stink from last season isn't quite as strong and offensive if they don't get hurt. Hey think of it this way, those guys get hurt causing a cascading of losing and we're picking 6th in a 10 stud player draft. If those 2 stay healthy maybe we're picking 12th instead.
Need a good off-season. Too many holes right now. Not enough alphas stars and too many bad players. NEed some development from within and a few guys added that can solidify critical positions.
Do you dare diminish the unique accomplishment of winning a road playoff game?
Do you not see how that day cemented the Giants as being "back" as proudly stated by a family that helped build the NFL?
Turn in your Giants fan membership, you heathen!
If you don’t see how that fluke ass game against a horrific defense set into motion the ensuing piss poor decisions then you need your head examined. That win absolutely has an effect on what happened in ‘23. But hey, maybe you’re right and the Giants have another mediocre season in ‘24 and back into the playoffs while having one of the worst offenses in football just like ‘22. Then you can bitc, moan and complain about other posters who have an issue with the Giants then giving Jones another extension after throwing 15 TDs again. They’ll have him locked up for a decade which is cool because, hey, the cap is a mirage anyways so who cares if they are paying asinine money to mediocre players? It’s all worth it to win a wild card game even if that means getting absolutely fucking embarrassed the following week! It’s all about the Wild Card baby!
I think it's fair to say most don't share your fondness for the random above average season in a decade of losing, or the myriad of mistakes that one season generated. Or the curb stomping the 2022 team took the very next week when we didn't play another flawed team.
Another poster said it perfectly yesterday. You guys are chasing a sugar high. Any immediate gratification and screw what it means long term for the success of the team.
But hey, fan however you want to fan.
I'd take that again. I know it would hurt but it's better than 2017-21 any fucking day.
2022 was not bad. Know the difference. We've seen plenty of bad that never leads to a fucking thing. Not all bad "rebuilds" end well. Most don't.
Keep building the roster slowly and for the long term. Look for upgrades everywhere, including QB. Don't over think shit. See good player, draft or keep good player.
Quote:
I want another 22 type season. This losing shit needs to stop first. Title aspirations can come after we establish some consistency here. Learn to walk first.
I think it's fair to say most don't share your fondness for the random above average season in a decade of losing, or the myriad of mistakes that one season generated. Or the curb stomping the 2022 team took the very next week when we didn't play another flawed team.
Another poster said it perfectly yesterday. You guys are chasing a sugar high. Any immediate gratification and screw what it means long term for the success of the team.
But hey, fan however you want to fan.
Yea except I never said I want one random good season. I want good seasons. I would accept the bad season or two mixed in as long as it's not FIVE BAD SEASONS IN A ROW. We just went through that prior to 22.
This place...Are we really arguing about which is better?
Chase 4-13. Have a great time.
Again, are we really debating this????
You guys are obsessed with Jones. I will say it for you. 22 led to the DJ contract and it's all over now. No hope for the future because of a two year fucking cap hit. We'd be rocking down electric avenue now if DJ wasn't re-signed. We'd have 20 more million to spend which obviously means we'd sign some 20 million dollar HOFer in his prime and all our problems go away. AM i right? Nope. I am dreaming.
Reminder, we have cap room this very moment. Plenty. Jones likely comes off the books in a year relatively painless or at least manageable and his money is completely clean 2 years form now.
I like winning seasons. Winning begets winning. Losing leads to more losing more often than not.
IN hindsight, I would trade how much I enjoyed that game against the Vikings for not operating under the illusion that the team was actually ahead of schedule in the rebuild. It clearly wasn't. It was fool's gold and it had longer term repercussions.
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
IN hindsight, I would trade how much I enjoyed that game against the Vikings for not operating under the illusion that the team was actually ahead of schedule in the rebuild. It clearly wasn't. It was fool's gold and it had longer term repercussions.
Just wait until they win 7-8 games in 2024 and talk themselves into rolling with Jones in 2025.
I mean if were some of you I would just induce a coma and wake up in 2 years since all is lost now anyway.
Losing is never good. NEVER. It's a disease.
He continued to act.
22 wasn’t sustainable.
It also likely would have changed nothing that happened after if the Giants went in there that day and lost.
Jones is not the answer, but Daboll and Schoen had been saying since early in 2022 that Jones had been doing everything they asked him to. He was basically given 2022 as a test and he passed the test in their eyes. Like it or don’t like it, that’s what it is.
He continued to act.
Greatest 15 touchdown pass season EVER!
Losing is never good. NEVER. It's a disease.
Two things:
1. The Giants aren't tanking. They just suck.
2. The 2022 team wasn't very good.
If this regime cannot win going forward because they won too many games in 2022 they were fucking doomed from the jump. Cmon already. They never should have been hired here to begin with.
Another winning season would be nice. It would give us reasons to be rationally hopeful going forward.
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
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Same shit with the Knicks. Same exact mentality with some of you.
Losing is never good. NEVER. It's a disease.
Two things:
1. The Giants aren't tanking. They just suck.
2. The 2022 team wasn't very good.
OK not the point at all but whatever. You win.
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no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
You and your analogies of eating calories and pushing cars off cliffs.
It’s fucking football, not a serious life issue. Some of you are so curmudgeonly it’s laughable.
So did virtually every other QB who played Minnesota in 2022.
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In comment 16412785 djm said:
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no one wants nothing less than super bowls. Of course. But I want to establish winning first and foremost. 22 was a start. If it ends there obviously it was short lived empty calorie type season but we don't know that yet. We also don't know that a bad season where slates are wiped clean is the panacea to winning long term am I right? how many 5 year stretches of desolation do we need to see before we learn that losing in most capacities is BAD?
Win games first. Bounce back in 24. Go from there. WTF.
Not twisting shit at all. Winning games in 2022 does not build a winning culture. Building a solid team of players who can produce consistently builds a winning culture.
The 2022 season lead the Giants to thinking they had something they clearly didn't, and that sent them backwards in building the team around broken parts. That year was absolutely empty calories that felt good while we were eating them.
You and your analogies of eating calories and pushing cars off cliffs.
It’s fucking football, not a serious life issue. Some of you are so curmudgeonly it’s laughable.
When I read posts from some posters, it is clear they need shit dumbed down for them. I quoted what another poster said yesterday that I thought was a good analogy. I didn't realize we had very sensitive posters like you who were triggered by them.
I am sorry the world is hard for you and words hurt.
We can play this stupid ass game all day. I am done.
Winning is good. Losing is bad. Losing is a toxic malaise that gets harder and harder to emerge from as the losses pile up.
If I had a dollar for the amount of times the Browns had a bad season and won the draft, won FA, won the HC hiring and still sucked balls, i'd be able to buy myself a martini.
Blame 2022. That's the new rallying cry.
I take it we are going to excuse Schoen and Daboll for another 3-4-5 years because of this line of thinking? After all, not their fault, right? They won too much early on in the process.
WHen do we move on from this? When they lose again in 24 and have yet another clean slate chance ? What if they win in 24? Then what?
Just fucking say it. It's Jones. You wish they sucked in 22 and Jones sucked too so they don't have to pay him for another season. Fine. It is what it is. Just be open minded enough to know that having some extra money for an off-season or two doesn't ensure a fucking thing. It doesn't even ensure you spend the money wisely even if it was the right move to make.
You will be free of Jones one day soon and then we can find something else to worry about.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
The NFL is a league where 7 of 16 teams make the playoffs in each conference. After that, on any given Sunday...
Smart front offices can identify these types of situations, and dumb ones don't. The Giants didn't.
This times 1000%.
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but then NYG reacted as fans would in planning for 2023 and beyond, and it was another set of mistakes added to the pile. THAT'S what we don't want to see happen anymore. Fix the self-scouting, the philosophy, the cap, etc. Stop trying to win now.
This times 1000%.
Total agreement.
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Same shit with the Knicks. Same exact mentality with some of you.
Losing is never good. NEVER. It's a disease.
Two things:
1. The Giants aren't tanking. They just suck.
2. The 2022 team wasn't very good.
To be fair, if you were going to tank last season, starting a rookie UDFA fresh off the streets of New Jersey at QB would be how you'd do it.
Here I am!
Just fucking say it. It's Jones. You wish they sucked in 22 and Jones sucked too so they don't have to pay him for another season. Fine. It is what it is.
I'll gladly admit it. Missing the playoffs in 2022 and ending the Jones era on that note would have been better than what happened for the LONG TERM.
I know long term thinking isn't your strong suit, you've made that evident repeatedly. And it's fine, you're not alone in that. You may as well be part of the front office, because they operate very much in the same way.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Someone will win. The loudest. Doesn't mean anyone learned anything.
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like we need an extra asshole.
Here I am!
lol. I can do a better job and fill in if needed.
I have no issue confessing I desperately wanted a higher draft pick this year. And I was disappointed we won meaningless games to fall to the sixth slot.
Because I fail to see much difference between finishing 3-14 and 6-11, despite all of the efforts of posters to say that was a good thing for Daboll.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Mike I hear where you are coming from. Maybe I am just arguing too but I do stand by my point that losing is rarely a good thing if ever. I also need to see how 24 shakes out before I lose my mind once again. I am sort of removed from the trauma of 23 season more and more so i start to possess more hope. I get the point your making. I also feel like it's an excuse for Schoen and Dabol and I am done giving out excuses other than injury.
I'm pretty sure you are right. And it's damning if true, that Joe Schoen/Mara would squander $100M on the random occurrence of a single game outcome. It indicates inept critical thinking capabilities. Schoen starts to look like a stuffed shirt. He needs to chart a bold course now and not safety.
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We see the 2022 season very differently. I am not going to convince you it was bad for the team long term, and you are not going to convince me it was good for the team long term.
We both made our points. Time to let it go. Nobody is "winning" this discussion.
Mike I hear where you are coming from. Maybe I am just arguing too but I do stand by my point that losing is rarely a good thing if ever. I also need to see how 24 shakes out before I lose my mind once again. I am sort of removed from the trauma of 23 season more and more so i start to possess more hope. I get the point your making. I also feel like it's an excuse for Schoen and Dabol and I am done giving out excuses other than injury.
And the argument I am making is not the winning is bad. Of course it isn't. What is bad is when winning a single game leads to poor self-scouting. Had the Giants failed to make the playoffs, I think they may have had a more honest internal discussion about where they were and how they needed to get to where they want.
We are sort of having two different arguments. I am not arguing losing is good. I am arguing it is useful when it forces you to be honest with yourself.
On that we are in complete agreement!
At one point Neal, playing on a bad ankle, had more NFL starts than the rest of the starting O line combined. Let that sink in. And then two of THOSE guys got hurt and undrafted practice squad players had to be plugged in. How many games did Jones, Waller, Barkley and Thomas play together because of all their injuries? Dex missed a game time then came back and played hurt, Williams missed a game and played hurt for a couple more before he was traded, Banks missed time, Neal played thru an ankle injury, missed a few games, came back and broke his ankle. Schmitz missed time. Taylor, Ezeudu, Phillips, McKethan, LeMieux, Robinson, Brightwell, Gano, Davidson, McFadden, Ojulari, Jackson, Flott all missed time. Some of them major time.
And yet, still, with all that, they won 4 of their last 7. And if they had started Taylor in the first game against Philly, they might have beaten the Eagles twice.
They weren't as good as their record in 2022, when everything broke their way. And they weren't as bad as their record in 2023, when every body seemed to break.
Unfortunately that Minn game had the Jones contract repercussions that it did. But the Jones contract itself didn't cause what happened in the 2023 season. The players, coaches and front office did it to themselves in showing that they really aren't a competitive collective group yet in the NFL. They all need to be much better and/or they need to be changed out.
That is why many on here make fun of anybody that brings up the Minn game as anything meaningful.
Most fans consider the Minnesota game AND the Eagles game when we think about the 2022 post season. Jones was awesome against one of the worst defenses in the NFL in Minnesota. He was out of his depth the following week against a good defense.
The problem is the argument that Jones won the Minnesota game, but the team lost the Eagles game. You can't have it both ways.
I want to be like Dallas and Philly. They win all the time. I don't care if Dallas blows it in the playoffs again. At least they got there and their fans, though frustrated at the end, got to see them win a lot. and the crowd who says, "well at least we have 4 SBs". WTF does that have to do with all our losing seasons? I'm tired of it. I'll take a 12-5 season every year!
A second NECK injury and ACL, make him damaged goods.
He would have to be a pro bowler to take a chance on at this point, and he certainly is NOT that.
Move on and stop with the revisionist history. It is no longer relevant.