Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Development: #Giants Darren Waller's mind is NOT made up and he is still weighing options for the future, he tells
@nypostsports
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
if he's hedging because he thinks his rap career will takeoff
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
Every sign is pointing to that being exactly what is happening. Good call.
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
Every sign is pointing to that being exactly what is happening. Good call.
If true that he's playing this way might explain his less than cordial departure from Vegas by MCDaniels. Not that he's not a dick but why make any public statements? There's not a single Giant fan who doesn't want him to retire lol
I have not been a fan of him as a part of this team.
- He has lukewarm interest in playing football
- He has no interest in a paycut.
- He doesn't want to give (all of) his bonus money back.
Leak the story to force the Giants hand a little. Hey I"m not sure if I"m intested in playing but won't know until September. I could be convinved to retire now if I get to keep $XXX.
He's done and has no one to throw him the football. Even if he gets someone to throw him the football, he'll probably be on his back before he can throw it to him. I would love for us to have the cap savings to help rebuild the O-Line and roll with Bellinger as the TE1.
Cap hit and savings is the same whether Waller retires or his cut.
If accurate then just cut him. Mulling retirement, chronic lower body issues that will absolutely require week to week management. You cant make that one of the focal points of your offense.
Cap hit and savings is the same whether Waller retires or his cut.
I think the cap hit is $4 million more.
Obviously if he’s on the roster- its more.
But those saying the Giants want to force his hand doesn’t make sense because if he they cut him or he retires- its the same cap hit. The Giants gain nothing. If they didnt want him- they would release him.
Puka Nacua was on the board when the pick that the Giants traded away for Waller came up.
Would the Giants have picked Nacua? Probably not; but you can't hit the lottery if you gave away your ticket.
And, for a team that is a long way from one player away, the upside of hitting on the rookie pick is enormously greater than that of the fading abilities of a expensive veteran player on the wrong side of 30 -- an injury-prone one at that.
The Waller trade, for me, is the worst single thing Schoen has dome as GM, because the motivating concept was so wrongheaded.
I liked the Leonard Williams trade at this year's deadline. But I don't find much else to put on the positive side of the ledger.
With his health history the pick should have been conditional
Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
should retire. The Giants obviously can't count on him.
I like the trade for Waller. So did most people here. But he did have an injury history and Schoen is ultimately responsible for the fact that it did not work out. To me this is more proof that teams should be very reluctant to trade picks for players, unless the pick being traded is a sixth or seventh. See Ogletree, Alec.
I do wonder if the Waller trade was made to some extent because the Giants were unable to make a trade during FA for a WR, and obviously at that time had no idea who they were going to be able to draft. Schoen needed to add receiving targets and turned to a seam-stretching TE when he couldn't trade for a WR.
The lesson from the Waller trade is don't let desperation influence your decision-making. Schoen should remember that as he ponders whether to trade a fortune in draft capital to move up for a QB.
RE: RE: Kenny Golladay was still 27 years old his first September with NYG
Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
As I mentioned in my previous post, there was an All-Pro receiver on the board when the pick the Giants traded for Waller came up: Puka Nacua. That's how you build a championship team when you are in the Giants' position.
The Rams drafted Nacua and made the playoffs as a result.
Darren Waller made one Pro Bowl in his career three years before the Giants traded for him.
The likelihood of Waller being an All-Pro in 2023 was essentially zero.
If as GM, you don't believe in your ability to find talent in the draft, and think the best thing you can so is hope a declining players has something left, you're getting paid a lot to do what an average fan could.
I don't think we have enough information to know if the medical staff missed something with Waller, but it's very disappointing his health was the issue from before the first game.
It was a pretty big swing and miss. Schoen's had his fair share.
I say this pretty regretfully, because I like Schoen. Has he added any good offensive players since he took over?
I don't think we have enough information to know if the medical staff missed something with Waller, but it's very disappointing his health was the issue from before the first game.
It was a pretty big swing and miss. Schoen's had his fair share.
I say this pretty regretfully, because I like Schoen. Has he added any good offensive players since he took over?
id say wandale/hyatt but its a great point. 0 vets. nothing close to an exciting rb prospect. whiffed on a bunch of ol with high picks and decent $ in fa.
Even the BBI uniformed, many of us wrung our hands at the thought of brining him in. Why else would the Raiders give up on a Pro Bowler ???
Schoen and Dabol had to be blind not to see the large ding on the Giants car fender caused by the Kenny Golladay fiasco when they walked in the door, then they tripped and fell into same rabbit hole.
I'm still a Joe & Brian fan, they just need to be a wee bit less desperate.
Raiders knew what they were doing when they dealt him.
I don’t get how it can be chronic. It’s a strain. Work on it strengthen it gain flexibility and move on. From what I can see he’s very tight. He’s really not fluid. Anyone else notice he bobbled every single pass thrown his way. He rarely actually catches the ball with his hands. Very disappointing player and I’m taking the QB play etc into account. We need a true 2 way TE1 to pair with bellinger who’s a solid TE2. Btw shame Kaden Smith also had career ending injury. He was better than bellinger
Robinson and Hyatt definitely have the potential to be good players, that's completely true. I should have mentioned them.
Robinson 23, Hodgins 22, James 22 are about it.
im a big hodgins fan but i dont give schoen a ton of credit there. they chose to keep sills rostered over hodgins twice before finally claiming him. they let him go to waivers (where anyone could have claimed him ahead of nyg) a day after trade deadline when they probably could have gotten him for a conditional 7th in 2055.
richie james was a good signing too. but on the whole the returns on offense are pretty bad. most of the investments were OL though. Neal, Glowsinki, Dirtbag, Ezeudu. Hard to say how much of that was butterly effect from the initial bobby johnson mistake.
Tuckrule, the following video has been shared .....
...It was a zero risk move but for the pick, because none of his salary was guaranteed.
But restructuring him so that his 2023 salary was a bonus (in other words extended over the next three years)? Yeah, fucking dumb. One of Schoen's bigger gaffs.
Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
As I mentioned in my previous post, there was an All-Pro receiver on the board when the pick the Giants traded for Waller came up: Puka Nacua. That's how you build a championship team when you are in the Giants' position.
The Rams drafted Nacua and made the playoffs as a result.
Darren Waller made one Pro Bowl in his career three years before the Giants traded for him.
The likelihood of Waller being an All-Pro in 2023 was essentially zero.
If as GM, you don't believe in your ability to find talent in the draft, and think the best thing you can so is hope a declining players has something left, you're getting paid a lot to do what an average fan could.
Nacuo was a 5th round pick. The Giants could have still could have drafted him. I don't get your point.
*ducks*
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
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By saying we will not release him.
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
Every sign is pointing to that being exactly what is happening. Good call.
There aren't a lot of good TEs in this draft... last year was a much better TE year.
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In comment 16413337 jvm52106 said:
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By saying we will not release him.
The way this off season is going it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we learn later on that this was another game of chicken. We’ll hear something like Waller wanted to be released to be closer to his wife in Vegas and used retirement as a motivator for the Giants if they refused. The Giants then countered that they had no intention of releasing him, knowing retirement is actually a better outcome for them, even if initially contemplating releasing him
Every sign is pointing to that being exactly what is happening. Good call.
If true that he's playing this way might explain his less than cordial departure from Vegas by MCDaniels. Not that he's not a dick but why make any public statements? There's not a single Giant fan who doesn't want him to retire lol
- He has no interest in a paycut.
- He doesn't want to give (all of) his bonus money back.
Leak the story to force the Giants hand a little. Hey I"m not sure if I"m intested in playing but won't know until September. I could be convinved to retire now if I get to keep $XXX.
Schoen restructured his contract.
You can recoup some of the money through an arbitrator... If the Giants would do that.
If he's seriously on the fence, the last thing the team needs is him quitting in late August. Move on.
Raiders knew what they were doing when they dealt him.
If accurate then just cut him. Mulling retirement, chronic lower body issues that will absolutely require week to week management. You cant make that one of the focal points of your offense.
I think the cap hit is $4 million more.
Quote:
Cap hit and savings is the same whether Waller retires or his cut.
I think the cap hit is $4 million more.
Obviously if he’s on the roster- its more.
But those saying the Giants want to force his hand doesn’t make sense because if he they cut him or he retires- its the same cap hit. The Giants gain nothing. If they didnt want him- they would release him.
Would the Giants have picked Nacua? Probably not; but you can't hit the lottery if you gave away your ticket.
And, for a team that is a long way from one player away, the upside of hitting on the rookie pick is enormously greater than that of the fading abilities of a expensive veteran player on the wrong side of 30 -- an injury-prone one at that.
The Waller trade, for me, is the worst single thing Schoen has dome as GM, because the motivating concept was so wrongheaded.
I liked the Leonard Williams trade at this year's deadline. But I don't find much else to put on the positive side of the ledger.
I also believe the Giants save more in cap space if he is cut after June 1st which would be the best way to go.
I also believe the Giants save more in cap space if he is cut after June 1st which would be the best way to go.
Schooled?
Giving up a late 3 that we received in a trade us your definition of “schooled”
Weird take
This deal turned to crap but compared to Golloday this was pennies
It happens more than you might think. Never say never.
This is going to end with a cut or retirement
I hope he's doing well - guy has battled some demons throughout his life and made himself one hell of a career despite all that.
I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with the Giants or their rebuild.
Golladay was a player evaluation mistake.
Waller was a conceptual mistake.
Golladay was a player evaluation mistake.
Waller was a conceptual mistake.
Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
I like the trade for Waller. So did most people here. But he did have an injury history and Schoen is ultimately responsible for the fact that it did not work out. To me this is more proof that teams should be very reluctant to trade picks for players, unless the pick being traded is a sixth or seventh. See Ogletree, Alec.
I do wonder if the Waller trade was made to some extent because the Giants were unable to make a trade during FA for a WR, and obviously at that time had no idea who they were going to be able to draft. Schoen needed to add receiving targets and turned to a seam-stretching TE when he couldn't trade for a WR.
The lesson from the Waller trade is don't let desperation influence your decision-making. Schoen should remember that as he ponders whether to trade a fortune in draft capital to move up for a QB.
Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
As I mentioned in my previous post, there was an All-Pro receiver on the board when the pick the Giants traded for Waller came up: Puka Nacua. That's how you build a championship team when you are in the Giants' position.
The Rams drafted Nacua and made the playoffs as a result.
Darren Waller made one Pro Bowl in his career three years before the Giants traded for him.
The likelihood of Waller being an All-Pro in 2023 was essentially zero.
If as GM, you don't believe in your ability to find talent in the draft, and think the best thing you can so is hope a declining players has something left, you're getting paid a lot to do what an average fan could.
It was a pretty big swing and miss. Schoen's had his fair share.
I say this pretty regretfully, because I like Schoen. Has he added any good offensive players since he took over?
It was a pretty big swing and miss. Schoen's had his fair share.
I say this pretty regretfully, because I like Schoen. Has he added any good offensive players since he took over?
id say wandale/hyatt but its a great point. 0 vets. nothing close to an exciting rb prospect. whiffed on a bunch of ol with high picks and decent $ in fa.
Robinson 23, Hodgins 22, James 22 are about it.
Even the BBI uniformed, many of us wrung our hands at the thought of brining him in. Why else would the Raiders give up on a Pro Bowler ???
Schoen and Dabol had to be blind not to see the large ding on the Giants car fender caused by the Kenny Golladay fiasco when they walked in the door, then they tripped and fell into same rabbit hole.
I'm still a Joe & Brian fan, they just need to be a wee bit less desperate.
Raiders knew what they were doing when they dealt him.
I don’t get how it can be chronic. It’s a strain. Work on it strengthen it gain flexibility and move on. From what I can see he’s very tight. He’s really not fluid. Anyone else notice he bobbled every single pass thrown his way. He rarely actually catches the ball with his hands. Very disappointing player and I’m taking the QB play etc into account. We need a true 2 way TE1 to pair with bellinger who’s a solid TE2. Btw shame Kaden Smith also had career ending injury. He was better than bellinger
Robinson 23, Hodgins 22, James 22 are about it.
im a big hodgins fan but i dont give schoen a ton of credit there. they chose to keep sills rostered over hodgins twice before finally claiming him. they let him go to waivers (where anyone could have claimed him ahead of nyg) a day after trade deadline when they probably could have gotten him for a conditional 7th in 2055.
richie james was a good signing too. but on the whole the returns on offense are pretty bad. most of the investments were OL though. Neal, Glowsinki, Dirtbag, Ezeudu. Hard to say how much of that was butterly effect from the initial bobby johnson mistake.
Several times here that describes Waller's chronic condition. It's recurring because it's related to a weakened state.
It really is a crying shame because he's a great player, team mate and a very decent person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5aEICGjZdM
But restructuring him so that his 2023 salary was a bonus (in other words extended over the next three years)? Yeah, fucking dumb. One of Schoen's bigger gaffs.
It’s like the New York Mets have taken over
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Why? What was the true risk trading for Waller? A lost 3rd rounder for a potential all-pro at the position? I hate the result but I dont hate the aggressive mindset from the organization.
As I mentioned in my previous post, there was an All-Pro receiver on the board when the pick the Giants traded for Waller came up: Puka Nacua. That's how you build a championship team when you are in the Giants' position.
The Rams drafted Nacua and made the playoffs as a result.
Darren Waller made one Pro Bowl in his career three years before the Giants traded for him.
The likelihood of Waller being an All-Pro in 2023 was essentially zero.
If as GM, you don't believe in your ability to find talent in the draft, and think the best thing you can so is hope a declining players has something left, you're getting paid a lot to do what an average fan could.
Nacuo was a 5th round pick. The Giants could have still could have drafted him. I don't get your point.