CBS Mock - Giants trade with AZ and take JJ McCarthy at #4

part with both 2s and get it down.

is allegedly rocketing up draft boards so quickly that in a week the media and the mock draft gurus will claim that the Giants will trade #6, #39, #47, and #1s and #2s in 2025 and 2026 to move up to #1 to take him.

This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!!
So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll.

In comment 16415246 gpat1031 said:

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This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!! So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll.

Why an overreach?

McCarthy is going to be stud. Just because your mock draft sites weren't as fast to love him as the NFL hasn't always been doesn't make it a reach. The kid is young and has elite arm talent, top end athleticism and a great make up. He's exactly the top of QB you want to give to Daboll to mold.

IF Ariz has Nabor and/or Odunze close to MHJ in evaluation.
Moving down to 6, they will get one of these receivers. (and if Bowers goes to the Chargers which is possible), they get the same guy at 6 they would get at 4, plus get draft capital.

In comment 16415252 ElitoCanton said:

Quote:

McCarthy is going to be stud. Just because your mock draft sites weren't as fast to love him as the NFL hasn't always been doesn't make it a reach. The kid is young and has elite arm talent, top end athleticism and a great make up. He's exactly the top of QB you want to give to Daboll to mold.

If this happens, I hope you are right because I just don't see it. No matter how hard I try.

Something just doesn't click for me taking him in the lottery...

Stay put or trade down. Too many other holes to fill.

it's ok. Disagreements are fine. But I've seen it all along.


In comment 16415258 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415252 ElitoCanton said: Quote: McCarthy is going to be stud. Just because your mock draft sites weren't as fast to love him as the NFL hasn't always been doesn't make it a reach. The kid is young and has elite arm talent, top end athleticism and a great make up. He's exactly the top of QB you want to give to Daboll to mold. If this happens, I hope you are right because I just don't see it. No matter how hard I try. Something just doesn't click for me taking him in the lottery...

In comment 16415246 gpat1031 said:

Quote:

This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!! So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll.

Agree. But a lot of people on here are convinced that McCarthy already has a Hall of Fame bust of him carved by Canton.

Or maybe we see just the talent that is required to be developed into a top level QB and we trust Daboll to do the development. And no position in sports is more important to have than a QB. If you don't have it, it doesn't matter what else you have. It is that simple.

In comment 16415262 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415246 gpat1031 said: Quote: This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!! So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll. Agree. But a lot of people on here are convinced that McCarthy already has a Hall of Fame bust of him carved by Canton.

but this is what I'm seeing. The more I see him, the more I hear him, the more I CAN see him being a fit in this market.
PLUS, I think you've said he's a lot more talented than Jones.
He's got a lot to learn, some things to clean up, but an indication of his attitude and desire to be great is getting up to 219 for the combine. You look at him next to Tierney, he's going to blossom into a big dude.
He's got the arm, the mobility and intangibles.
I would trust Daboll to mold the second coming of Josh Allen out of him. Worth the gamble at 4-6 I think.

we please stop citing the fact that NFL teams apparently have a very high grade on JJM as something that is necessarily invaluable? These are the same NFL teams that had very high grades on Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Trey Lance, RGIII, Jason Campbell, Christian Ponder, E.J. Manuel, Mark Sanchez, J.P. Losman, and a ton of other failed first-round QBs. They get it wrong at least half the time. They are not geniuses.

I'd rather not take JJM at #6, but won't "throw the remote" if the Giants do. QBs get overdrafted every year, Schoen and Daboll deserve to pick their "guy," and Jones has to be replaced after this season. But I don't want to trade up for him or any other QB.

The absolute worst draft strategy is to get into a "bidding war" for any player, which is exactly what is likely to happen with JJM starting at #4 if Williams, Maye, and Daniiels go #1, #2, #3.

.

In comment 16415262 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415246 gpat1031 said: Quote: This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!! So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll. Agree. But a lot of people on here are convinced that McCarthy already has a Hall of Fame bust of him carved by Canton.

Nobody has said that. He has a lot of potential for Daboll to mold into an elite QB.

If they don't do it and wait teams have two chances to jump them. Maybe a second and third this year and next year second ?

think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB.

And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding.

One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history.

In comment 16415286 ThomasG said:

Quote:

think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB. And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding. One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history.

Not only THIS...but I couldn't have said it any better!!!

That just because you (whoever this applies to) have Daniels and Williams ranked so high that any thought of McCarthy being taken earlier is "desperation". Then someone else adds in "doesn't matter what other teams think either because they are the sane that thought..."! So basically unless the Giants do what you want, you think they are being dumb, being desperate..

Give me a fucking break. Again, and this is coming from a guy who wants Maye as our QB draft pick first. I don't care who any of you want, if Schoen and Daboll want their guy (one of their guys) then go for it.. None of you have your jobs on the line with this pick and NONE of you do this as a job...


This idea that there is a magical QB ranking that all 32 teams believe, follow and will hold to is comical at best.

Didn't we overdraft a QB five years ago???? If you want to trade up to get one of the top 3 guys I can live with that but not the guy everyone believes is no better than the fourth best prospect in his own draft class. You don't pick that guys at #6. You want to draft one of the blue chip receivers at 6 and then try to trade back up to get McCarthy as well even that I could live with. Not picking that guy before number 20. If he is gone and someone else wants him so be it. This team has lots of needs and investing everything in a QB prospect who is not even a top tier prospect is fireable.

are two of the guys who loved Josh Allen when everyone hated him. So if they do make this move for a QB, I will trust them.


This is a great QB class and next year's class sucks ass. So yeah. They should trade up if necessary.

teams will be attending pro days, bringing in prospects for private workouts. Plenty of time for the Giants to make their evaluations and set their draft board. Michigan's pro day is March 22 btw.

that McCarthy is not a top tier prospect is utter nonsense.

most NFL scouts had 2nd round grades on Jones at best. Some even had 3rd round grades. McCarthy is universally graded top 15 by people in the NFL. So that talking point is utter crap.

In comment 16415286 ThomasG said:

Quote:

think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB. And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding. One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history.

NFL scouts and coaches are wrong. Sorry Sy, you're also wrong.

ThomasG is the real brain.

In comment 16415298 ElitoCanton said:

Quote:

most NFL scouts had 2nd round grades on Jones at best. Some even had 3rd round grades. McCarthy is universally graded top 15 by people in the NFL. So that talking point is utter crap.

But all the mock drafts had him as a day 3 pick last month

/s

In comment 16415332 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415298 ElitoCanton said: Quote: most NFL scouts had 2nd round grades on Jones at best. Some even had 3rd round grades. McCarthy is universally graded top 15 by people in the NFL. So that talking point is utter crap. But all the mock drafts had him as a day 3 pick last month /s

Not true.

https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/01/21/nfl-mock-draft-2024-first-round-qbs

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2024-nfl-mock-draft-bears-commanders-vikings-and-bucs-add-first-round-qbs

In comment 16415303 Toth029 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415286 ThomasG said: Quote: think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB. And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding. One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history. NFL scouts and coaches are wrong. Sorry Sy, you're also wrong. ThomasG is the real brain.

What are you so insulted for?

And it looks like I am going to be clearly wrong about him being a first round QB. We'll see about being good though.

WBG84
@WBG84
NFL Network Analyst Charles Davis says he's eyeing the Giants at 6 as the landing spot for Michigan QB JJ McCarthy. #NYGiants #NFLDraft

I think we’ll look back on this thread and laugh in a couple years

And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick?

People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft

Etc etc

Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting

Is the guy to be a franchise qb I have no problem trading up

In comment 16415341 HardTruth said:

Quote:

And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick? People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft Etc etc Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting

And yet here we are again with some fans further behind the media.

In comment 16415348 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16415341 HardTruth said: Quote: And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick? People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft Etc etc Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting And yet here we are again with some fans further behind the media.

Rinse and repeat...

In comment 16415341 HardTruth said:

Quote:

And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick? People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft Etc etc Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting

On the flip side…Willis, Levis, Paxton Lynch…all guys who shot up after the combine but slid to late 1st or lower on draft day

didn't rise with the combine. He was always there with NFL scouts. I've been sayng this for month. The mocks were always off.

If the Giant believe he's a franchise QB, get him. Simple as that.

In comment 16415372 ElitoCanton said:

Quote:

didn't rise with the combine. He was always there with NFL scouts. I've been sayng this for month. The mocks were always off.

Draft talk will always be somewhat annoying for things like this. "Rocketing up draft boards" is media speak for "Oh, interesting, the actual teams like this dude way more than we do".

In comment 16415372 ElitoCanton said:

Quote:

didn't rise with the combine. He was always there with NFL scouts. I've been sayng this for month. The mocks were always off.

phhhlllllleassse

In comment 16415286 ThomasG said:

Quote:

think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB. And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding. One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history.

Not necessarily hype, but college game is different than pro. How many Heisman Trophy winners have we seen bust horribly over the years? Or flame out like Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Johnny Football, etc.

Hopefully Harbaugh's prediction comes true and the Giants are left picking from the scraps of Williams or Daniels.

In comment 16415401 christian said:

Quote:

Hopefully Harbaugh's prediction comes true and the Giants are left picking from the scraps of Williams or Daniels.

Huh?

In comment 16415403 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415401 christian said: Quote: Hopefully Harbaugh's prediction comes true and the Giants are left picking from the scraps of Williams or Daniels. Huh?

Harbaugh said he expects McCarthy will be the first QB taken. The scraps comment is sarcasm.

On a serious note, four quarterbacks showing top 5 talent this far is great for the Giants.

I have less knowledge of the college game than basically anyone on BBI, so I just hope the stats are finally aligning for the Giants.

In comment 16415416 christian said:

Quote:

On a serious note, four quarterbacks showing top 5 talent this far is great for the Giants. I have less knowledge of the college game than basically anyone on BBI, so I just hope the stats are finally aligning for the Giants.

I agree.

In comment 16415335 ThomasG said:

Quote:

In comment 16415303 Toth029 said: Quote: In comment 16415286 ThomasG said: Quote: think about him being good enough to be considered a first round QB. And the very idea of having to trade away picks in order to draft him overall #4 is really astounding. One of the bigger hype stories that I can recall in recent draft history. NFL scouts and coaches are wrong. Sorry Sy, you're also wrong. ThomasG is the real brain. What are you so insulted for? And it looks like I am going to be clearly wrong about him being a first round QB. We'll see about being good though.

I'm most certainly not insulted, sir. But you didn't watch Michigan and JJ McCarthy the same way scouts and coaches do.

And you're right. He may very well be bad. He could also do great. The same applies to any prospect in the draft and it always has.

If not.....what a disaster.

McCarthy not making it to 6th....would be second guess for a very long time

In comment 16415383 j_rud said:

Quote:

Draft talk will always be somewhat annoying for things like this. "Rocketing up draft boards" is media speak for "Oh, interesting, the actual teams like this dude way more than we do".

The discrepancy between the media and the teams in the NFL seems greater than say the NBA. I feel like in the NBA an amateur can guess the first round and get half right.

In comment 16415341 HardTruth said:

Quote:

And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick? People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft Etc etc Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting

You really are taking some wild leaps. The site is very active in college talk EVERY SATURDAY when the season starts. We have discussed at least 100 prospects - easily.

Many of us have been talking about Daniels since September. And those same posters were saying he was the #1 or #2 pick by the end of October. Just check the Saturday game threads throughout the college season.

And like today, some of us were questioning McCarthy all season. So, this isn't new. Further, don't paint with a broad brush that the entire league is viewing McCarthy as top tier QB. Some are, some aren't.

is awful for predictions and analysis, not just in the NFL but also for the NBA.

I don't know what they ever get right.

The more stuff that comes out about McCarthy the more I’m inclined to believe it is a massive smokescreen.

Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing?

for JJ McCarthy?

(1) Nothing against the guy, but he hasn’t proven to me that the Giants should surrender draft capital for him;

(2) The Giants roster from 1-to-53 is as weak as any in the NFL. They CANNOT afford to give up draft picks for a gamble;

(3) If they want to pick JJ McCarthy, then stay the hell at 6 and just call his name;

(4) And if he ain’t there anymore, then take a sure-fire WR like Nabers or Odunze or a great offensive lineman or a great EDGE guy!

In comment 16415438 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing?

That's really the Harbaugh philosophy. He is heavy with big OL packages and 12 and 13 personnel. So, the QB isn't as emphasized.

In comment 16415442 M.S. said:

Quote:

for JJ McCarthy? (1) Nothing against the guy, but he hasn’t proven to me that the Giants should surrender draft capital for him; (2) The Giants roster from 1-to-53 is as weak as any in the NFL. They CANNOT afford to give up draft picks for a gamble; (3) If they want to pick JJ McCarthy, then stay the hell at 6 and just call his name; (4) And if he ain’t there anymore, then take a sure-fire WR like Nabers or Odunze or a great offensive lineman or a great EDGE guy!

How are you not understanding this?

The League has a different opinion than you.

And they are not going to defer to YOUR opinion.

It's really that simple.

The McCarthy talk has been going on for several weeks now and you know it. I know you know it because I've seen you react to it.

So don't pretend this is something new.

In comment 16415448 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

The McCarthy talk has been going on for several weeks now and you know it. I know you know it because I've seen you react to it. So don't pretend this is something new.

What the hell are you talking about? Read what I wrote...

I’m not trading up for McCarthy. I’m taking a receiver at 6, then trading both second rounders and 2nd round pick next year if McCarthy is available around 15 or so.

No sense in giving up a ton of draft capital for McCarthy. He’s not that type of prospect.

In comment 16415443 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415438 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing? That's really the Harbaugh philosophy. He is heavy with big OL packages and 12 and 13 personnel. So, the QB isn't as emphasized.

Do you find this concerning? I'm a big fan of Harbaugh and think he's a good coach--why wouldn't he toggle his offense to be more air oriented with McCarthy?

In comment 16415460 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I’m not trading up for McCarthy. I’m taking a receiver at 6, then trading both second rounders and 2nd round pick next year if McCarthy is available around 15 or so. No sense in giving up a ton of draft capital for McCarthy. He’s not that type of prospect.

I meant not trading up for him from 6

You are on to something,calling this all a spokescreen....this has to be Schoen monkeying around with controlled leaks....hyping JJ up..
I would love to hear some sap team like TB trades up for our #6.

Will root like hell for the kid if they take him at 6 but that feels way too early IMO. Justin Herbert was drafted at 6 and he was a much better prospect.

In comment 16415464 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

You are on to something,calling this all a spokescreen....this has to be Schoen monkeying around with controlled leaks....hyping JJ up.. I would love to hear some sap team like TB trades up for our #6.

It just feels like this regime wouldn’t allow this much talk about McCarthy to get out there unless they wanted it to for the sole purpose of misdirection.

In comment 16415464 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

You are on to something,calling this all a spokescreen....this has to be Schoen monkeying around with controlled leaks....hyping JJ up.. I would love to hear some sap team like TB trades up for our #6.

And what do the Giants can from this smokescreen?

you seem sold on the possibility of our taking JJ at 6 or earlier..thats fine,however,there are alot of us who feel different.
We watched him all season and were less than enthused by JJ's play.
Somehow he has shot up the draft board and I and others,have not seen any reason for the change.

In comment 16415461 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

That's really the Harbaugh philosophy. He is heavy with big OL packages and 12 and 13 personnel. So, the QB isn't as emphasized. Do you find this concerning? I'm a big fan of Harbaugh and think he's a good coach--why wouldn't he toggle his offense to be more air oriented with McCarthy?

Harbaugh is very old school. He wants a physical team that can beat the piss out of teams at the LOS. So, he is willing to limit his QBs, which makes it difficult to get your arms around a McCarthy. That's not to say McCarthy can't become a premier QB, but he just doesn't have a lot of content like so many others.

It's going to be very interesting to watch how Harbaugh utilizes Herbert because he's never had a freak like that for QB...

I'm talking about the fact that we have heard for several weeks now that McCarthy was regarded much higher in League circles than by the "draft pundit" community.

Now that community has interacted with League officials at the Combine and they are changing their tune.

I have said for weeks on this site, every year fans have some pecking order firmly established in their mind that doesn't conform with reality. Tied into this is the "top prospects" are the ones who often flame out while the guy fans claim isn't as good ends up being the best.

This happens almost every year.

Five quarterbacks may be drafted in round one. Only two of them will probably make it. And I bet you at least one of those guys is someone who wasn't drafted in the top three picks.

In comment 16415460 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

No sense in giving up a ton of draft capital for McCarthy. He’s not that type of prospect.

I rarely agree with much of what you write, but I couldn't agree more with this statement...

Thanks, bw.

In comment 16415474 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

you seem sold on the possibility of our taking JJ at 6 or earlier..thats fine,however,there are alot of us who feel different. We watched him all season and were less than enthused by JJ's play. Somehow he has shot up the draft board and I and others,have not seen any reason for the change.

AROCK. The BBI community has a horrific traffic record of predicting quarterbacks. Absolutely horrific.

With a Player like MHJR there.

In comment 16415483 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16415474 AROCK1000 said: Quote: you seem sold on the possibility of our taking JJ at 6 or earlier..thats fine,however,there are alot of us who feel different. We watched him all season and were less than enthused by JJ's play. Somehow he has shot up the draft board and I and others,have not seen any reason for the change. AROCK. The BBI community has a horrific traffic record of predicting quarterbacks. Absolutely horrific.

hahahaa

In comment 16415486 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

With a Player like MHJR there.

Neither do I to be honest. I think Schoen probably will check on the availability of the pick, as will other teams, but the LA Chargers seem like a more likely trade partner, assuming they need to trade up.

Here is how I have tracked the McCarthy debate at BBI.

He was polarizing during the season, and it caused a great divide here at BBI for most of the college season about where he would go if he entered the draft. So, there was a real curiosity about how he would be viewed once he declared.

And once he did, a number of us made the assumption that likely meant McCarthy received feedback from the NFL Advisory Cmte that he was a first-round grade. Which started a debate, at least the ones I engaged in, where in the first round he would go. So, IMV, lottery was always a possibility...

Here's their current ranking of QBs:

1 Caleb Williams
3 Jayden Daniels
4 Drake Maye
23 JJ McCarthy
29 Bo Nix
38 Michael Penix
71 Spencer Rattler
112 Jordan Travis
127 Michael Pratt
130 Joe Milton
152 Devin Leary
164 Sam Hartman
173 Austin Reed
178 Kedon Slovis

2024 Big Board - ( New Window )

In comment 16415501 bw in dc said:

Quote:

Here is how I have tracked the McCarthy debate at BBI. He was polarizing during the season, and it caused a great divide here at BBI for most of the college season about where he would go if he entered the draft. So, there was a real curiosity about how he would be viewed once he declared. And once he did, a number of us made the assumption that likely meant McCarthy received feedback from the NFL Advisory Cmte that he was a first-round grade. Which started a debate, at least the ones I engaged in, where in the first round he would go. So, IMV, lottery was always a possibility...

You forgot to mention the ad nauseum comments about how Michigan didn’t ’trust’ him to throw against Penn State, when they were completely unable to stop the run.

His third down stats are impressive- 67% completion rate and first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer of 55.1%.

In comment 16415509 M.S. said:

Quote:

Here's their current ranking of QBs: 1 Caleb Williams 3 Jayden Daniels 4 Drake Maye 23 JJ McCarthy 29 Bo Nix 38 Michael Penix 71 Spencer Rattler 112 Jordan Travis 127 Michael Pratt 130 Joe Milton 152 Devin Leary 164 Sam Hartman 173 Austin Reed 178 Kedon Slovis 2024 Big Board - ( New Window )

This seems more like reality...
So how or why would I be pleased to think we are chasing JJ at 6..or even worse at 4

In comment 16415511 RCPhoenix said:

Quote:

His third down stats are impressive- 67% completion rate and first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer of 55.1%.

I honestly don't know what that tells anyone about McCarthy going forward. Against Ohio State, Michigan was 3 for 12 on third down. Against Alabama, Michigan was 2 for 11 on third down. Against Washington they were 1 for 10. So, I tend to think those stats were inflated against a very easy schedule in the first three months...

In comment 16415540 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415511 RCPhoenix said: Quote: His third down stats are impressive- 67% completion rate and first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer of 55.1%. I honestly don't know what that tells anyone about McCarthy going forward. Against Ohio State, Michigan was 3 for 12 on third down. Against Alabama, Michigan was 2 for 11 on third down. Against Washington they were 1 for 10. So, I tend to think those stats were inflated against a very easy schedule in the first three months...

This

McCarthy and one of them has already started that stupid moniker as well.

Their opinion is generally worthless on him. God forbid we draft him, they will be just as unbearable.

We need to give Daniel Jones at least 5-10 more years to prove himself.

In comment 16415554 JT039 said:

Quote:

McCarthy and one of them has already started that stupid moniker as well. Their opinion is generally worthless on him. God forbid we draft him, they will be just as unbearable.

I hate the idea of drafting him in the lottery.

To summarize, only those who like McCarthy have worthwhile opinions.

Interesting.

In comment 16415561 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415554 JT039 said: Quote: McCarthy and one of them has already started that stupid moniker as well. Their opinion is generally worthless on him. God forbid we draft him, they will be just as unbearable. I hate the idea of drafting him in the lottery. To summarize, only those who like McCarthy have worthwhile opinions. Interesting.

Not at all. There have many people who have a lot of reservations about him. Including myself. But don’t go out of their way to say stuff and make up stupid nicknames for posters who actually do like him.

You posted some 3rd down stats without any context knowing full well that Michigan didn’t even throw the ball a lot on third down. It’s crafting false narratives.

I have been on every college thread with you this year. You don’t like McCarthy, never have, and probably never will. It’s ok - but it makes your opinion of him have literally zero value.

In comment 16415545 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415540 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16415511 RCPhoenix said: Quote: His third down stats are impressive- 67% completion rate and first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer of 55.1%. I honestly don't know what that tells anyone about McCarthy going forward. Against Ohio State, Michigan was 3 for 12 on third down. Against Alabama, Michigan was 2 for 11 on third down. Against Washington they were 1 for 10. So, I tend to think those stats were inflated against a very easy schedule in the first three months... This

And yet he won all those games, including late drives vs Alabama. Yes?

In comment 16415427 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415341 HardTruth said: Quote: And already happened this year. Or did we already forget this draft was considered 2 QBs until mid-December and that Jayden Daniels was looked at as an end of 1st-early 2nd rd pick? People didn’t think Kyler Murray was a first rounder in January of his year. Baker Mayfield & Josh Allen weren’t considered top 10 in January either it was a Rosen-Darnold draft Etc etc Professional TV & Radio guys are catching up to the scouting You really are taking some wild leaps. The site is very active in college talk EVERY SATURDAY when the season starts. We have discussed at least 100 prospects - easily. Many of us have been talking about Daniels since September. And those same posters were saying he was the #1 or #2 pick by the end of October. Just check the Saturday game threads throughout the college season. And like today, some of us were questioning McCarthy all season. So, this isn't new. Further, don't paint with a broad brush that the entire league is viewing McCarthy as top tier QB. Some are, some aren't.

This is true, I was the one starting threads about him being #1 or #2 back then. He's the guy I'm really hoping slides to 3 and we pull the trigger. I was also one who didn't see it with JJ while watching cfb, I didn't really watch that much of Michigan though. It was a couple months ago that I started to realize he was a realistic possibility for us in rd1 and I needed to do more research to understand him as a prospect. After watching all 22s and doing extensive research on him my perspective did a 180. I saw the arm strength, ability to throw on the run, good at reading defenses, quick t process through reads, good on 3rd down, good when under pressure, very athletic, a threat in rpo, great leadership, great personality, great mentality, very accurate, good deep balls, clutch in big moments. JD is still my top choice but after him it's JJM then DM. I think it's imperative we land one of the three. Most likely scenario to me is qbs 1-2-3 then mhj followed by small trade up for JJM.

In comment 16415554 JT039 said:

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McCarthy and one of them has already started that stupid moniker as well. Their opinion is generally worthless on him. God forbid we draft him, they will be just as unbearable.

When is the last time bw actually threw support behind a Giants QB?

It wasn’t Eli or Jones, so need to go back further. He disappeared during the Eli championship years, so he could avoid it.

Guess that can continue if JJ is the pick.

In comment 16415465 ryanmkeane said:

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Will root like hell for the kid if they take him at 6 but that feels way too early IMO. Justin Herbert was drafted at 6 and he was a much better prospect.

McCarthy averaged more YPA than Herbert playing in a less wide open offense than Herbert. McCarthy is the better athlete. Their arm strength is a lot closer than people want to be.

Herbert was a better prospect, but much better is a stretch. Herbert was pretty poor his junior year under Cristobal

*

In comment 16415563 JT039 said:

Quote:

Not at all. There have many people who have a lot of reservations about him. Including myself. But don’t go out of their way to say stuff and make up stupid nicknames for posters who actually do like him. You posted some 3rd down stats without any context knowing full well that Michigan didn’t even throw the ball a lot on third down. It’s crafting false narratives. I have been on every college thread with you this year. You don’t like McCarthy, never have, and probably never will. It’s ok - but it makes your opinion of him have literally zero value.

Case in point - the bold. I don't have an opinion less valuable than yours. I have a different opinion.

Michigan had three games this year of significance. The ones I listed. The Penn State game - they were 6 for 13 on third down - is an oddity because Michigan ran the ball every time in the second half.

But Michigan also had one of the softest schedules in America leading into the Ohio St game. Right? They played nine unranked opponents before Penn State. Nine. ECU, UNLV, Bowling Green, Rutgers, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Michigan State.

But my larger point/question still stands - I don't know how to make assumptions going forward using those third down stats McCarthy had. They are a data point, but a data point that seems to be weighed more to the softer side of the schedule.

In comment 16415272 Dave on the UWS said:

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but this is what I'm seeing. The more I see him, the more I hear him, the more I CAN see him being a fit in this market. PLUS, I think you've said he's a lot more talented than Jones. He's got a lot to learn, some things to clean up, but an indication of his attitude and desire to be great is getting up to 219 for the combine. You look at him next to Tierney, he's going to blossom into a big dude. He's got the arm, the mobility and intangibles. I would trust Daboll to mold the second coming of Josh Allen out of him. Worth the gamble at 4-6 I think.

I really HATE how this seems to be the major criteria for drafting a QB. Sometimes I feel like on this board (and to John Mara) this is the only criteria.

In comment 16415571 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

McCarthy averaged more YPA than Herbert playing in a less wide open offense than Herbert. McCarthy is the better athlete. Their arm strength is a lot closer than people want to be. Herbert was a better prospect, but much better is a stretch. Herbert was pretty poor his junior year under Cristobal

Bolden for emphasis. A horrible football coach.

Maybe Harbaugh will ditch Herbert in a trade and take the better athlete with a similar arm...

In comment 16415416 christian said:

Quote:

On a serious note, four quarterbacks showing top 5 talent this far is great for the Giants. I have less knowledge of the college game than basically anyone on BBI, so I just hope the stats are finally aligning for the Giants.

Yup so we can get Harrison!!!!

In comment 16415580 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415571 ajr2456 said: Quote: McCarthy averaged more YPA than Herbert playing in a less wide open offense than Herbert. McCarthy is the better athlete. Their arm strength is a lot closer than people want to be. Herbert was a better prospect, but much better is a stretch. Herbert was pretty poor his junior year under Cristobal Bolden for emphasis. A horrible football coach. Maybe Harbaugh will ditch Herbert in a trade and take the better athlete with a similar arm...

And Harbaugh ran a run first offense. Put McCarthy in the up tempo spread Oregon offense and people would have a more glowing opinion on JJ.

He may bust, but I think finding out is worth the risk

In comment 16415578 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415563 JT039 said: Quote: Not at all. There have many people who have a lot of reservations about him. Including myself. But don’t go out of their way to say stuff and make up stupid nicknames for posters who actually do like him. You posted some 3rd down stats without any context knowing full well that Michigan didn’t even throw the ball a lot on third down. It’s crafting false narratives. I have been on every college thread with you this year. You don’t like McCarthy, never have, and probably never will. It’s ok - but it makes your opinion of him have literally zero value. Case in point - the bold. I don't have an opinion less valuable than yours. I have a different opinion. Michigan had three games this year of significance. The ones I listed. The Penn State game - they were 6 for 13 on third down - is an oddity because Michigan ran the ball every time in the second half. But Michigan also had one of the softest schedules in America leading into the Ohio St game. Right? They played nine unranked opponents before Penn State. Nine. ECU, UNLV, Bowling Green, Rutgers, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Michigan State. But my larger point/question still stands - I don't know how to make assumptions going forward using those third down stats McCarthy had. They are a data point, but a data point that seems to be weighed more to the softer side of the schedule.

It is pointless to try to use logic bro
To be honest it's almost cult like

Changing my option on JJ after watching more film and speaking to people in the league?

there really even any need to trade up if JJM is still available at #4? Atlanta is the team that might move up to #4, but even that seems unlikely given the cost.

Arizona would likely want an absolute haul to move down to eight and miss out on taking MHJ to pair with Murray. San Diego would also likely want a big haul to move down to eight because by doing so they might miss out on Nabers and Odunze.

And if Atlanta does want to give up "the farm" to move from eight to four for JJM, then they can have him.

I am not souring you on your opinion on McCarthy - there’s probably a good chance he won’t be the savior for any team.

But it’s ok to admit you don’t like him.. lol. I really never have.

Not I.

In comment 16415585 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

And Harbaugh ran a run first offense. Put McCarthy in the up tempo spread Oregon offense and people would have a more glowing opinion on JJ. He may bust, but I think finding out is worth the risk

You are drawing a conclusion with your example that McCarthy would have flourished in that environment. And that's fine.

For me, however, that is more of a question mark than conclusion based on a lot of unknowns with McCarthy.

In comment 16415580 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415571 ajr2456 said: Quote: McCarthy averaged more YPA than Herbert playing in a less wide open offense than Herbert. McCarthy is the better athlete. Their arm strength is a lot closer than people want to be. Herbert was a better prospect, but much better is a stretch. Herbert was pretty poor his junior year under Cristobal Bolden for emphasis. A horrible football coach. Maybe Harbaugh will ditch Herbert in a trade and take the better athlete with a similar arm...

Great. I’d trade the number 6 pick for Herbert.

In comment 16415438 BrettNYG10 said:

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Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing?

Why would an OC change what was working.
Winning football games is not about showcasing players.

In comment 16415545 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415540 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16415511 RCPhoenix said: Quote: His third down stats are impressive- 67% completion rate and first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer of 55.1%. I honestly don't know what that tells anyone about McCarthy going forward. Against Ohio State, Michigan was 3 for 12 on third down. Against Alabama, Michigan was 2 for 11 on third down. Against Washington they were 1 for 10. So, I tend to think those stats were inflated against a very easy schedule in the first three months... This

Cognitive bias

In comment 16415591 JT039 said:

Quote:

I am not souring you on your opinion on McCarthy - there’s probably a good chance he won’t be the savior for any team. But it’s ok to admit you don’t like him.. lol. I really never have.

For me, it's all about draft value/placement.

I have seen a ton of content with Williams, Maye and Daniels to feel much better about their prospects based on how they performed and what they consistently showed. So, it makes sense - to me - to say they have high day one value.

If I had more content and consistency with McCarthy, I would have no problem saying we have four top-tier QBs. But there is a shortage there for me...

Look, I don't know any more than you. I'm just making a best guess and expressing it.

In comment 16415602 Brown_Hornet said:

Quote:

In comment 16415438 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing? Why would an OC change what was working. Winning football games is not about showcasing players.

If you have a top five QB in the country, wouldn't that work even better?

There are definitely times the offense wasn't working, presumably. Was McCarthy uncorked then and did well?

I want to like McCarthy, I just think it's concerning he was seemingly used differently than the top three.

In comment 16415604 Brown_Hornet said:

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Cognitive bias

Go ahead and step into the batter's box and explain how McCarthy's success on third down will translate to the NFL.

Because I really/legitimately have no idea.

In comment 16415611 BrettNYG10 said:

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I want to like McCarthy, I just think it's concerning he was seemingly used differently than the top three.

I'll say this to your question/comment - Harbaugh turned Luck loose at Stanford.

Than Jordan Love. Sometimes college doesn’t tell the whole picture

In comment 16415595 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415585 ajr2456 said: Quote: And Harbaugh ran a run first offense. Put McCarthy in the up tempo spread Oregon offense and people would have a more glowing opinion on JJ. He may bust, but I think finding out is worth the risk You are drawing a conclusion with your example that McCarthy would have flourished in that environment. And that's fine. For me, however, that is more of a question mark than conclusion based on a lot of unknowns with McCarthy.

You seem to question every valid talking point people bring up. Numbers don't work for you. Scout/analysts' observations don't work for you. His W/L record doesn't work for you. So whats next? Rely entirely on the eye test? If thats the case, I believe others here pointed out that you too were a fan of Malik Willis?

I'm sorry, but you shoot down every argument with "yeeeaaaa, but Im just still not buying it" and you post 100 times a day about the topic.

In comment 16415246 gpat1031 said:

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This screams desperation at QB. It's an overreach if they took him at 6!!! So to also give up picks would be incompetent on Schoen and Daboll.

This. Jones part 2. And the Qb at any cost crowd will say to move on over an d over. Because it’s worked so well for the Cards and Jets. Two of the worst franchises in NFL history lol.

TBH don’t care anymore. Let them. But if the top 3 teams take QBs AZ is not trading ton6 and passing on Harrison unless the Giants drop their pants. 2 2nds are t going to do it. But again. Just to shut the loons up it’s worth it

Ehich stats to dig 8n on is disingenuous. Especially when h8ghlighting his performance against 2 very good defenses especially OSU.

In comment 16415618 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415611 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I want to like McCarthy, I just think it's concerning he was seemingly used differently than the top three. I'll say this to your question/comment - Harbaugh turned Luck loose at Stanford.

Honest question, how was that team built? This Michigan team was obviously built on defense and run first. From what I’ve read/seen, Harbaugh seemed to have no issue turning to JJ when needed (3rd, 4th down, etc.)

In comment 16415612 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415604 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: Cognitive bias Go ahead and step into the batter's box and explain how McCarthy's success on third down will translate to the NFL. Because I really/legitimately have no idea.

The response to your comment was cognitive bias.
If McCarthy is indeed good enough To be the Giants pick, I am not concerned whether or not Some people Think that he is afraid Of 3rd downs. He has been Incredibly efficient Overall, Which makes me wonder If some people believe that the pressure of 3rd down Exists.
I don't believe it does.

In comment 16415509 M.S. said:

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Here's their current ranking of QBs: 1 Caleb Williams 3 Jayden Daniels 4 Drake Maye 23 JJ McCarthy 29 Bo Nix 38 Michael Penix 71 Spencer Rattler 112 Jordan Travis 127 Michael Pratt 130 Joe Milton 152 Devin Leary 164 Sam Hartman 173 Austin Reed 178 Kedon Slovis 2024 Big Board - ( New Window )

.
JJ end of 1st round projection
He was in the 30s a few weeks ago.
Go look at his #s vs legitimate Defenses this year and come back

In comment 16415628 NormanAllen_95 said:

Quote:

You seem to question every valid talking point people bring up. Numbers don't work for you. Scout/analysts' observations don't work for you. His W/L record doesn't work for you. So whats next? Rely entirely on the eye test? If thats the case, I believe others here pointed out that you too were a fan of Malik Willis? I'm sorry, but you shoot down every argument with "yeeeaaaa, but Im just still not buying it" and you post 100 times a day about the topic.

The third down numbers don't work for me. I have no idea how that translates to future NFL success.

And almost every QB prospect from a blue blood program has an excellent Win/Loss record. So, I don't see that as some kind of significant differentiator.

I was a fan of Willis. And? I was also a fan of Rosen. I was also fan on Finley.

Is this the part of the program where we steer into the stupid zone because someone doesn't bat 1.000 on QB projections?

In comment 16415595 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415585 ajr2456 said: Quote: And Harbaugh ran a run first offense. Put McCarthy in the up tempo spread Oregon offense and people would have a more glowing opinion on JJ. He may bust, but I think finding out is worth the risk You are drawing a conclusion with your example that McCarthy would have flourished in that environment. And that's fine. For me, however, that is more of a question mark than conclusion based on a lot of unknowns with McCarthy.

There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball…
Link - ( New Window )

But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing
What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago
???

In comment 16415663 AROCK1000 said:

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But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago ???

…
Easy Pickens - ( New Window )

In comment 16415644 bigblue5611 said:

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Honest question, how was that team built? This Michigan team was obviously built on defense and run first. From what I’ve read/seen, Harbaugh seemed to have no issue turning to JJ when needed (3rd, 4th down, etc.)

Traditionally, from University of San Diego to Michigan, Harbaugh has built teams with heavy packages to win and dominate the LOS.

On your question, yes, Stanford was very physical, too. They played like a Big Ten team. Luck just had a bigger presence in the passing game.

In comment 16415654 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415628 NormanAllen_95 said: Quote: You seem to question every valid talking point people bring up. Numbers don't work for you. Scout/analysts' observations don't work for you. His W/L record doesn't work for you. So whats next? Rely entirely on the eye test? If thats the case, I believe others here pointed out that you too were a fan of Malik Willis? I'm sorry, but you shoot down every argument with "yeeeaaaa, but Im just still not buying it" and you post 100 times a day about the topic. The third down numbers don't work for me. I have no idea how that translates to future NFL success. And almost every QB prospect from a blue blood program has an excellent Win/Loss record. So, I don't see that as some kind of significant differentiator. I was a fan of Willis. And? I was also a fan of Rosen. I was also fan on Finley. Is this the part of the program where we steer into the stupid zone because someone doesn't bat 1.000 on QB projections?

No, but for somebody who is so blatantly wrong so badly and so often, you might want to try to see what others see in prospects rather than posting on every thread telling people ehy you disagree with them. Thats all.

Its fine to have an opinion, but you are on the 15th unabridged addition why you dislike JJ and people have put together good arguments for him as a prospect, and you make it a point yo poke holes in all of them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll leave you to it, but while you make some solid points, they are drowned out by the redundancy of your prospect and anti Giants org statements. Thats all

In comment 16415655 bigblue5611 said:

Quote:

There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball… Link - ( New Window )

From the article:

Quote:

McCarthy fits best in a Shanahan-style system that simplifies things pre-snap and leans into throws over the middle of the field with the help of play action. He has the requisite arm talent and pocket toughness to function in that system.

That’s exactly what Daboll wants to do

In comment 16415670 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415644 bigblue5611 said: Quote: Honest question, how was that team built? This Michigan team was obviously built on defense and run first. From what I’ve read/seen, Harbaugh seemed to have no issue turning to JJ when needed (3rd, 4th down, etc.) Traditionally, from University of San Diego to Michigan, Harbaugh has built teams with heavy packages to win and dominate the LOS. On your question, yes, Stanford was very physical, too. They played like a Big Ten team. Luck just had a bigger presence in the passing game.

Thanks, I didn’t really follow his college teams then and didn’t just feel like looking at stats to get an idea. If you have a QB like Luck I guess you have to lean on him no matter what.

All that said, I am admittedly high on JJ. I was not at first and would have preferred JD or DM. Now I’d say I’m JD, JJ, DM in that order. Really enjoyed watching JJ throw yesterday, wished the others would have.

In comment 16415673 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415655 bigblue5611 said: Quote: There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball… Link - ( New Window ) From the article: Quote: McCarthy fits best in a Shanahan-style system that simplifies things pre-snap and leans into throws over the middle of the field with the help of play action. He has the requisite arm talent and pocket toughness to function in that system. That’s exactly what Daboll wants to do

Yup, would love to see what Daboll could do with him.

In comment 16415655 bigblue5611 said:

Quote:

There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball… Link - ( New Window )

I don't see much of that (Burrow), but that is quite the praise.

You have quite the imagination to think anyone could have been as prolific as Burrow was at LSU.

None of us can pretend to know if McCarthy will be good or not. I hope he’s good.

That being said - in THIS draft with the other prospects available, it would be really dumb to draft him at 6 in my opinion. Even dumber to trade up for him. He’s likely a top 30 player in this draft. Top 10 is a major stretch.

“None of us can know” but it would be “dumb to take McCarthy”. What if McCarthy is Joe Burrow? Would it still be dumb.

We know you want Odunze for your boy Daniel.

In comment 16415681 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

None of us can pretend to know if McCarthy will be good or not. I hope he’s good. That being said - in THIS draft with the other prospects available, it would be really dumb to draft him at 6 in my opinion. Even dumber to trade up for him. He’s likely a top 30 player in this draft. Top 10 is a major stretch.

Preach

In comment 16415681 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

None of us can pretend to know if McCarthy will be good or not.

What are your thoughts on pretending to know if other players will be good or not?

In comment 16415680 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415655 bigblue5611 said: Quote: There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball… Link - ( New Window ) I don't see much of that (Burrow), but that is quite the praise. You have quite the imagination to think anyone could have been as prolific as Burrow was at LSU.

Who knows, highlights are highlights and everyone has lowlights, but I think there is a lot to like about JJ and I don’t think there is any reason to think he couldn’t have been more prolific if he was in an offense that featured the passing game more.

In comment 16415671 NormanAllen_95 said:

Quote:

No, but for somebody who is so blatantly wrong so badly and so often, you might want to try to see what others see in prospects rather than posting on every thread telling people ehy you disagree with them. Thats all. Its fine to have an opinion, but you are on the 15th unabridged addition why you dislike JJ and people have put together good arguments for him as a prospect, and you make it a point yo poke holes in all of them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll leave you to it, but while you make some solid points, they are drowned out by the redundancy of your prospect and anti Giants org statements. Thats all

Then ignore my posts. There are plenty of posters at BBI who like to think in a monolith and congratulate each other for it.

In comment 16415681 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Top 10 is a major stretch.

Based off what? A shit ton of teams and front office people saying he’s closer to the big 3 than people realize?

Scouting services and “draft experts” are usually way more wrong than right. So if they had a lower grade on him earlier - it doesn’t mean they were right.

In comment 16415669 JT039 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415663 AROCK1000 said: Quote: But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago ??? … Easy Pickens - ( New Window )

That's hilarious truth is our D was below par this year under Fickell
Color me skeptical
The WR was 2 steps open...I could've made the throw

fact that everybody on the board (definitely including me) has had major misses on QBs is why I don't want to trade up for one. NFL talent evaluators also have major misses. They're wrong about 50% of the time. There is also a fair amount of projecting required for McCarthy because he came from a run-heavy offense. Too much IMO to justify trading up for him. And as I said in a previous post, I don't even think it would be necessary. The compromise position is to take him at #6 if that's what the Giants want to do, although I would take Odunze or trade down if someone made an incredible offer.

I like McCarthy. I like him more than I did a few months ago. But I do wonder if to some extent his now possibly being considered as a top five pick isn't just another example of QBs being overvalued because teams are so desperate to find one.

In comment 16415691 bw in dc said:

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There are plenty of posters at BBI who like to think in a monolith and congratulate each other for it.

Like people who use stupid acronyms to mock posters? Haha

In comment 16415690 bigblue5611 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415680 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16415655 bigblue5611 said: Quote: There is supposedly at least one NFL scout saying that JJ would have been Burrow if he were in an offense that threw the ball… Link - ( New Window ) I don't see much of that (Burrow), but that is quite the praise. You have quite the imagination to think anyone could have been as prolific as Burrow was at LSU. Who knows, highlights are highlights and everyone has lowlights, but I think there is a lot to like about JJ and I don’t think there is any reason to think he couldn’t have been more prolific if he was in an offense that featured the passing game more.

Sorry, should have extrapolated on the highlights part, I think it’s easy to get caught up in some of the highlights if that’s all people are watching, but I just see a lot to like with JJ and think some parts of his lowlights are certainly correctable, like throwing left outside the numbers. But the fact the had a 71.4% comp when scrambling I think is something to really like for example. In comparison Williams was 41.8, Maye at 36.8, JD at 46.7, Penix at 23.3 and Nix at 58.6

In comment 16415690 bigblue5611 said:

Quote:

Who knows, highlights are highlights and everyone has lowlights, but I think there is a lot to like about JJ and I don’t think there is any reason to think he couldn’t have been more prolific if he was in an offense that featured the passing game more.

Like I said earlier, if you are buying McCarthy, you have an easier time - than me - imagining him crushing it in wider-open offense.

I just get can't there. Alas, that seems to create a lot of consternation on the board... ;)

In comment 16415693 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415669 JT039 said: Quote: In comment 16415663 AROCK1000 said: Quote: But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago ??? … Easy Pickens - ( New Window ) That's hilarious truth is our D was below par this year under Fickell Color me skeptical The WR was 2 steps open...I could've made the throw

Whatever JJ did well you will find a way to explain it away.

People making comps to taking McCarthy at #6 being similar to taking Jones at #6 are being lazy.

Honestly I would prefer Daniels, but McCarthy has a lot of upside. What I don’t want is JJ or Daniels being passed up at #6 if they are there.

In comment 16415695 JT039 said:

Quote:

In comment 16415691 bw in dc said: Quote: There are plenty of posters at BBI who like to think in a monolith and congratulate each other for it. Like people who use stupid acronyms to mock posters? Haha

Perhaps you should view those as terms of endearment... ;)

In comment 16415260 Trainmaster said:

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Stay put or trade down. Too many other holes to fill.

Exactly.. The Giants really lack talent overall.

In comment 16415699 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16415690 bigblue5611 said: Quote: Who knows, highlights are highlights and everyone has lowlights, but I think there is a lot to like about JJ and I don’t think there is any reason to think he couldn’t have been more prolific if he was in an offense that featured the passing game more. Like I said earlier, if you are buying McCarthy, you have an easier time - than me - imagining him crushing it in wider-open offense. I just get can't there. Alas, that seems to create a lot of consternation on the board... ;)

To each is own, no issues with civil disagreement here. I have to say I’ve clashed with your opinions before though I’ve never really engaged as I don’t post much haha. Let’s just hope that Schoen and the Giants nail this draft and we have some good football to look forward to.

myself included. even if he has strong opinions he doesnt troll so hes obviously entitled to them.

@bw here are some questions for you ive asked in different ways but may help clarify where i think you are looking at mccarthy from the wrong pov.

you like daniels a lot - where was he as a prospect pre lsu?

i ask because mccarthy threw fewer passes at um than daniels at asu. so however much you think daniels improved to be what he is today, it's possible anyone could do the same if starting from anywhere near the same place, and in jjm's case he is starting WAY farther ahead of where daniels was at ASU. with all the raw tools anyone could ask for.

the draft is a projection to nfl first and foremost but it isnt too hard to project what jjm may have been able to continue doing in CFB if he didnt declare, especially if he had nabers/thomas and a more spread passing attack.

In comment 16415670 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16415644 bigblue5611 said: Quote: Honest question, how was that team built? This Michigan team was obviously built on defense and run first. From what I’ve read/seen, Harbaugh seemed to have no issue turning to JJ when needed (3rd, 4th down, etc.) Traditionally, from University of San Diego to Michigan, Harbaugh has built teams with heavy packages to win and dominate the LOS. On your question, yes, Stanford was very physical, too. They played like a Big Ten team. Luck just had a bigger presence in the passing game.

Stanford got into a lot of shootouts. In 2011 for instance they gave up about 19 points per game with like 5 shootouts compared to the 2023 Wolverines with like 7.7 ppg allowed and like one shootout game all year in which JJ played imo his best game ever against Alabama accounting for 75% of their offense himself. I'm not saying he's JJM is a better prospect obviously, but this argument is flawed there is a lot more to it than Harbaugh trusted leaning into Luck but didn't with JJ. They were totally different teams.

In comment 16415663 AROCK1000 said:

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But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago ???

the college season ended and the evaluation process began.

In comment 16415716 Brown_Hornet said:

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In comment 16415663 AROCK1000 said: Quote: But what I don't want is MY TEAM getting caught up in hype based on...nothing What changed in JJs game since 30 days ago ??? the college season ended and the evaluation process began.

Exactly. When Sy was asked what changed in his evaluation, he said that he didn't take time to really dig in until he declared for the draft.

But if you are going to throw other draft picks to grab someone that person better be a pretty sure thing. I don't think JJ is that. Thus, I think that would be a bad move.

In comment 16415691 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16415671 NormanAllen_95 said: Quote: No, but for somebody who is so blatantly wrong so badly and so often, you might want to try to see what others see in prospects rather than posting on every thread telling people ehy you disagree with them. Thats all. Its fine to have an opinion, but you are on the 15th unabridged addition why you dislike JJ and people have put together good arguments for him as a prospect, and you make it a point yo poke holes in all of them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll leave you to it, but while you make some solid points, they are drowned out by the redundancy of your prospect and anti Giants org statements. Thats all Then ignore my posts. There are plenty of posters at BBI who like to think in a monolith and congratulate each other for it.

Lol, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! Just look at this thread alone. Im sure there are 6 more just like it JUST today!

Whatever man.

In comment 16415685 ajr2456 said:

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“None of us can know” but it would be “dumb to take McCarthy”. What if McCarthy is Joe Burrow? Would it still be dumb. We know you want Odunze for your boy Daniel.

So then what is the point of rating prospects? What is the point of having a board? You think Joe Schoen has JJ McCarthy as the 6th best overall player in this draft? That would be foolish.

I’m saying “none of us know” because it’s a crapshoot which is why you tend to want to take the best available player at your slot. McCarthy would not be that.

And yeah, I want Odunze because in my opinion he has practically zero flaws and the way he goes about his business it is somewhat clear to me that he should be very good.

I don’t know anything about McCarthy - only what I saw of him during big games and I was not that impressed.

And all of this info leaking out, something is fishy about it.

Seems to me that Schoen is hoping someone wants to trade up to 6 to take McCarthy “from the Giants” who like him so much.

In comment 16415730 ryanmkeane said:

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So then what is the point of rating prospects? What is the point of having a board? You think Joe Schoen has JJ McCarthy as the 6th best overall player in this draft? That would be foolish.

The first two sentences make no sense. The Giants have a board. They have prospects tiered. We have no idea how they rank them. Odunze could be the 3 WR on their board for all we know. The #1 player on their board could be Dallas Turner and not Caleb Williams.

How do you know JJ isn’t the first QB on his board? You just said you know nothing about McCarthy yet, if Schoen likes him enough to take him 6th it’s both dumb and foolish.

Hypocritical of your typical stance on here no?

It was dumb and foolish to pay Jones but that was smart, and there were a lot more data points to suggest that was not going to end well.

There’s a lot to like about JJM if you can look past just stats. The tools are all there. He’s been highly rated dating back to high school (top 40). He played at the highest level you can in high school football, and earned time as a true freshman at a school with championship aspirations.

I sat with 3 NFL personnel people on Thursday and they all raved about McCarthy and said similar things in the article that was posted. Maybe they’re wrong, but people reacted the same way when people talked glowingly about Allen (I was one).

The upside of JJM well outweighs the risk and cost if they did decide to move up to get him.

In comment 16415731 ryanmkeane said:

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And all of this info leaking out, something is fishy about it. Seems to me that Schoen is hoping someone wants to trade up to 6 to take McCarthy “from the Giants” who like him so much.

No inaiders are leaking info all these reports are just the media connecting dots that the Giants want a qb, have been looking to trade up and the most reasonable scenario is them trading up for JJM. It's not smoke from inside the building to the media right now. There have been some hints from insiders here about JJM being the wildcard. If I was Schoen I would want JD, JJM or DM which it seems he does as he is deeply looking into all trade up options to be fully prepared whether CW and JD go first or CW and DM go first, then depending on who the Patriots are high on if their guy is there or they feel they could trade down to get their guy or if they sign a vet and go MHJ or sign a vet and trade down, then if AZ takes MHJ or if he is taken if they trade down or if they trade down with him on the board because they have him rated similarly to Nabers and Odunze..it's not an intentional leak imo.

then go get the guy. But this could also just be misdirection to get the 1-3 teams second-guessing their own QB rankings.

they can sign Baker and trade back a few picks then draft JJ to sit for a year or two...that the lowest they can trade back is with us because we'll take JJ if he's there.

In comment 16415731 ryanmkeane said:

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And all of this info leaking out, something is fishy about it. Seems to me that Schoen is hoping someone wants to trade up to 6 to take McCarthy “from the Giants” who like him so much.

This kind of information leaks all the time before the draft. I doubt Schoen is looking to trade down.

In comment 16415289 jvm52106 said:

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That just because you (whoever this applies to) have Daniels and Williams ranked so high that any thought of McCarthy being taken earlier is "desperation". Then someone else adds in "doesn't matter what other teams think either because they are the sane that thought..."! So basically unless the Giants do what you want, you think they are being dumb, being desperate.. Give me a fucking break. Again, and this is coming from a guy who wants Maye as our QB draft pick first. I don't care who any of you want, if Schoen and Daboll want their guy (one of their guys) then go for it.. None of you have your jobs on the line with this pick and NONE of you do this as a job... This idea that there is a magical QB ranking that all 32 teams believe, follow and will hold to is comical at best.

Perfectly stated

think, we trade half the farm for the #4 QB of the draft.

Id muhc rather stay put a #6 and take BPA or trade down and get assets. I know we need a qb, but we cant trade up that much, just to get the fourth QB. Cant emphasize the "fourth" part.

But would prefer to keep our 2 2nd round picks to add depth at edge, OL, and WR. I'd prefer to risk losing him than trade up, take the WR if someone nabs him ahead of us. If they trade up I'm assuming they really love him, and won't throw the remote though 🤣

but if the QB they like merits it than you go for it. I prefer McCarthy and think the Giants will also like Maye. I saw very little of Maye playing so I don't have a opinion on him.

I soured on Williams in 2022 and that continued through 2023.

Daniels has both a alarming Y/A and rushing ypc in 2023 which makes me wonder if there is a lot of inflation at play here.

Urban Meyer went on to highlight several key plays that McCarthy made against the Buckeyes, including an incredible touchdown pass to Roman Wilson where he threaded the needle between two defenders. 
"I've done this a long time," Meyer said. "I'm not sure I've ever seen a ball like this."

That throw was a 3rd & 10 pass from McCarthy from the 30 that takes the game from 7-3 to 14-3.

It requires elite level processing, anticipation, timing and touch and was done under heavy pressure from 3 guys in the pocket

Link below
Go to 2:30 - ( New Window )

.

In comment 16415790 ajr2456 said:

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.

+1

The bills traded their starting LT, 2 seconds rounders, and a fifth rounder, to move up in the first and draft the 3rd QB. Who gives a fuck that is was the 3rd QB?

But watching a number of Michigan games, he never looked to me like a top QB prospect. And based on mock drafts not that long ago, a lot of folks felt that way.

Who knows. But, I would hate to have trade up for him.

Again, I'm not saying McCarthy won't or can't be an awesome pro. He can.

He is not a top 10 NFL prospect.

In comment 16415814 ryanmkeane said:

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Again, I'm not saying McCarthy won't or can't be an awesome pro. He can. He is not a top 10 NFL prospect.

This is a ridiculous statement. I think several teams have JJ ranked top ten in this draft. Listen to the people in the know, on this board. People actually talking to NFL people. You don’t value that insight?

In comment 16415814 ryanmkeane said:

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Again, I'm not saying McCarthy won't or can't be an awesome pro. He can. He is not a top 10 NFL prospect.

But you said you know nothing about McCarthy. So how do you know for sure he’s not a top 10 prospect?

Don’t we have to always give the Giants the benefit of the doubt?

is near off the charts at this point. His BBI threads outnumber the other three top QB prospects about 4 to 1 by my rough estimate. Not to mention the countless number of other comments on other general drafts threads yearning for the NYGs to move up a little in order to improve chances of drafting JJ.

Feel like we are back in 1964 and Paul, John and the boys launched Beatlemania in the US and millions of teenage girls lost their minds.

In comment 16415796 Blue The Dog said:

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The bills traded their starting LT, 2 seconds rounders, and a fifth rounder, to move up in the first and draft the 3rd QB. Who gives a fuck that is was the 3rd QB?

You're forgetting to mention that the Bills had multiple 1st round picks, so they traded up again to get Tremaine Edmunds. And you are also forgetting to mention that Cordy Glenn was injured for most of the season before he was traded to the Bengals and was then moved to guard.

In comment 16415817 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16415814 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Again, I'm not saying McCarthy won't or can't be an awesome pro. He can. He is not a top 10 NFL prospect. But you said you know nothing about McCarthy. So how do you know for sure he’s not a top 10 prospect? Don’t we have to always give the Giants the benefit of the doubt?

Again, if Schoen thinks McCarthy is a top 10 NFL prospect then sure, I'll be inclined to trust him.

What I am saying is - I find it hard to believe that he thinks that.

You know nothing about Schoen’s thought process or what he likes or doesn’t in QB prospects.

What is clear is the Giants have interest in JJM. How much we’ll see.

In comment 16415825 ajr2456 said:

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You know nothing about Schoen’s thought process or what he likes or doesn’t in QB prospects. What is clear is the Giants have interest in JJM. How much we’ll see.

Again, you have no idea if the Giants have interest in McCarthy. The fact that this is universally known now is a bit fishy to me.

In comment 16415818 ThomasG said:

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is near off the charts at this point. His BBI threads outnumber the other three top QB prospects about 4 to 1 by my rough estimate. Not to mention the countless number of other comments on other general drafts threads yearning for the NYGs to move up a little in order to improve chances of drafting JJ. Feel like we are back in 1964 and Paul, John and the boys launched Beatlemania in the US and millions of teenage girls lost their minds.

To be fair, a lot of that stems from you not liking McCarthy. That alone makes him about as sure a bet to be a Pro Bowl player as anyone in the draft

In comment 16415827 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 16415825 ajr2456 said: Quote: You know nothing about Schoen’s thought process or what he likes or doesn’t in QB prospects. What is clear is the Giants have interest in JJM. How much we’ll see. Again, you have no idea if the Giants have interest in McCarthy. The fact that this is universally known now is a bit fishy to me.

And you have no idea whether McCarthy is or isn’t a top 10 prospect but your stating it as a fact he isn’t.

The Giants do have interest in JJM. Enough to take him at 6 or higher we’ll see. But the Giants have interest in JJM.

JT - just my opinion but If I'm taking bets on who will be the better professional football players, I'm going Odunze and Alt over McCarthy. But hey, I get it. He's a QB and everyone is on the "just pick anyone" at QB train.

I think Maye will be a much better pro than McCarthy.

But not in a trade up scenario. If some QB desperate team needs to have JJM and is willing to jump us for him, then so be it. I would trade up for Drake Maye, but JJM has to be there at 6 or I'm taking my blue chip wideout and checking off a major need.

In comment 16415819 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 16415796 Blue The Dog said: Quote: The bills traded their starting LT, 2 seconds rounders, and a fifth rounder, to move up in the first and draft the 3rd QB. Who gives a fuck that is was the 3rd QB? You're forgetting to mention that the Bills had multiple 1st round picks, so they traded up again to get Tremaine Edmunds. And you are also forgetting to mention that Cordy Glenn was injured for most of the season before he was traded to the Bengals and was then moved to guard.

None of that affects the statement I made. They traded a lot to get a raw prospect, who was the 3rd QB taken in the draft. It doesn't matter that he was the 3rd QB taken. He's a franchise guy. People get way too wrapped up in the perceived order of prospects

In comment 16415832 ryanmkeane said:

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JT - just my opinion but If I'm taking bets on who will be the better professional football players, I'm going Odunze and Alt over McCarthy. But hey, I get it. He's a QB and everyone is on the "just pick anyone" at QB train.

You saying Alt can be interpreted the same exact way. “Just take an OL”. You don’t know the first thing about Alt, other than he plays OL, which just happens to be one of the positions you want to draft at that pick.

In comment 16415438 BrettNYG10 said:

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Naive question (I don't watch much CFB): if McCarthy is so good, why weren't more demands placed on his arm at Michigan? Having a top ten draft pick and being so damn run heavy seems silly. What am I missing?

You are basically missing everything.

27-1 as a starter and a national championship, doing what they were doing.

Heavily running the ball, with the backs, means the QB doesn't get hurt.

Why mess with success?

While not possible, if any team, HS, college, pro, could win their championship by only running the ball and never attempting a pass the entire season, they would do it in a heartbeat.

In comment 16415832 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

JT - just my opinion but If I'm taking bets on who will be the better professional football players, I'm going Odunze and Alt over McCarthy. But hey, I get it. He's a QB and everyone is on the "just pick anyone" at QB train.

Sounds like a “just take anyone to help my boy crush Daniel” train

In comment 16415837 UberAlias said:

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But not in a trade up scenario. If some QB desperate team needs to have JJM and is willing to jump us for him, then so be it. I would trade up for Drake Maye, but JJM has to be there at 6 or I'm taking my blue chip wideout and checking off a major need.

Exactly
Theres no need to trade up for the 4th QB off the board.


Another thought. Can you guys imagine, trading with cardinals to pick MHJ?

Then watch for Fields to Atlanta. Minnesota and Denver are pretty big jump to 4 or 5. Doable, but you have to be seriously determined because you're getting out of that blue chip area.

In comment 16415828 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 16415818 ThomasG said: Quote: is near off the charts at this point. His BBI threads outnumber the other three top QB prospects about 4 to 1 by my rough estimate. Not to mention the countless number of other comments on other general drafts threads yearning for the NYGs to move up a little in order to improve chances of drafting JJ. Feel like we are back in 1964 and Paul, John and the boys launched Beatlemania in the US and millions of teenage girls lost their minds. To be fair, a lot of that stems from you not liking McCarthy. That alone makes him about as sure a bet to be a Pro Bowl player as anyone in the draft

Pro Bowl?

If BBI likes are the measuring stick, JJ is HoF-Bound by Thanksgiving.

Are sure things is pretty funny, it’s like we haven’t been through Evan Neal and Erick Flowers

Is Peter Warrick or Charles Rogers?

In comment 16415850 ajr2456 said:

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Is Peter Warrick or Charles Rogers?

Look at the 2014 draft. People forget Watkins went before Evan’s, OBJ, Cooks, Davonte Adams, Allen Robinson, Landry…

In comment 16415833 ryanmkeane said:

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I think Maye will be a much better pro than McCarthy.

And that’s a perfectly fine statement. He could possibly be.

But McCarthy is a player who now projects what the giants need and in the range we can get him. He’s a controversial topic due to the fact three QBs might go ahead of our pick.

That's why so many of them fail. Just look at the teams in the top 15 who don't have a franchise QB --many/most of them have already taken their shot at a guy recently and failed. And JJM in particular is tricky eval because he was not asked to carry his offense like many of the others. That's the reason why, even though I like him and hope he is there for us at 6, I would NOT consider trading up for him. Take your shot, sure, but don't throw other needed assets into that gamble.

a 1st round pick will get you to the SB. There's probably a 5% or less chance that Jones will. To me, that says that if you have a 1st round grade on a player, you take him, but you don't give up a bunch of extra picks to move up for him.

In comment 16415858 UberAlias said:

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That's why so many of them fail. Just look at the teams in the top 15 who don't have a franchise QB --many/most of them have already taken their shot at a guy recently and failed. And JJM in particular is tricky eval because he was not asked to carry his offense like many of the others. That's the reason why, even though I like him and hope he is there for us at 6, I would NOT consider trading up for him. Take your shot, sure, but don't throw other needed assets into that gamble.

I think a trade, if required, happens at 5. I’m still very doubtful that AZ trades out to miss MHjr. So you would be looking at less compensation to move up one spot.

But trading up is insane.

I would just be passed if they end up with drake may. He is so overrated.

In comment 16415372 ElitoCanton said:

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didn't rise with the combine. He was always there with NFL scouts. I've been sayng this for month. The mocks were always off.

Coaches and assistant coaches don't even start getting involved in the evaluation process until mid february.

It is the coaches and the assistant coaches that are going to fall in love with JJ because it is arguably the best decision maker at the position

In comment 16415871 chitt17 said:

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But trading up is insane. I would just be passed if they end up with drake may. He is so overrated.

Penix is 3 years older than McCarthy and has a substantial injury history. The Giants already have a QB who can’t stay healthy, they don’t need another one.

In comment 16415708 Eric on Li said:

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you like daniels a lot - where was he as a prospect pre lsu? i ask because mccarthy threw fewer passes at um than daniels at asu. so however much you think daniels improved to be what he is today, it's possible anyone could do the same if starting from anywhere near the same place, and in jjm's case he is starting WAY farther ahead of where daniels was at ASU. with all the raw tools anyone could ask for. the draft is a projection to nfl first and foremost but it isnt too hard to project what jjm may have been able to continue doing in CFB if he didnt declare, especially if he had nabers/thomas and a more spread passing attack.

Per your last paragraph, I would agree that McCarthy has more passing production in a spread like LSU. But I seriously doubt he puts up the massive ground production Daniels did. What Daniels did as a dual threat was historical. I've never seen anything like it. To me, he's LJax with better passing fundamentals.

I'm not sure where you are going with the Daniels/ASU comments. And that's probably me not understanding your point.

If you are suggesting Daniels didn't show much as ASU, I suggest you look closer at JD's true freshman year at ASU. It was very, very good. He wasn't quite the runner he is today, but he had four 300 passing yards games, 17 TDs/2 INT, 8+ YPA, and beat #6 Oregon (w/Herbert) by throwing for 400+, 3TDs/0 INTs. Covid hit the following year and ASU only played 4 games. (I would probably toss 2021 with the NCAA investigation into recruiting and all of the coaches being suspended...)

I know McCarthy has a plus arm, shows some scrambling ability, and can make some plays off-script. Those are a good basket of traits.

But I haven't seen enough to support a high investment. On the other hand, you and others are more comfortable taking those skills and extrapolating them out to support McCarthy being a lottery pick.

That's really the difference in where we are here. Like I said, McCarthy is much more talented than Jones. So, that is a very good thing.

In comment 16415960 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16415708 Eric on Li said: Quote: you like daniels a lot - where was he as a prospect pre lsu? i ask because mccarthy threw fewer passes at um than daniels at asu. so however much you think daniels improved to be what he is today, it's possible anyone could do the same if starting from anywhere near the same place, and in jjm's case he is starting WAY farther ahead of where daniels was at ASU. with all the raw tools anyone could ask for. the draft is a projection to nfl first and foremost but it isnt too hard to project what jjm may have been able to continue doing in CFB if he didnt declare, especially if he had nabers/thomas and a more spread passing attack. I know McCarthy has a plus arm, shows some scrambling ability, and can make some plays off-script. Those are a good basket of traits. But I haven't seen enough to support a high investment. On the other hand, you and others are more comfortable taking those skills and extrapolating them out to support McCarthy being a lottery pick. That's really the difference in where we are here. Like I said, McCarthy is much more talented than Jones. So, that is a very good thing.

You’re all about traits though. McCarthy seems to check the boxes for what traits you love. You always say you can coach the other stuff but can’t coach traits. College production is generally low on your list of importance.

Wondering why there’s some inconsistency in your evaluation of McCarthy compared to other QBs that you loved based solely on traits?

his first four years were 2.8, 6.8, 5.1 and 4.8. The 6.8 was in a season when he played 3 games. Last season it was 8.4.

I don't see the comparison to LJ.

What I do see is a big bump in his 5th year. In two 2023 games he rushed for 400 yards. Against Florida who had a terrible D he ran for over 200 yards rushing.

In comment 16415960 bw in dc said:

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If you are suggesting Daniels didn't show much as ASU, I suggest you look closer at JD's true freshman year at ASU. It was very, very good. He wasn't quite the runner he is today, but he had four 300 passing yards games, 17 TDs/2 INT, 8+ YPA, and beat #6 Oregon (w/Herbert) by throwing for 400+, 3TDs/0 INTs. Covid hit the following year and ASU only played 4 games. (I would probably toss 2021 with the NCAA investigation into recruiting and all of the coaches being suspended...)

my point is this:

daniels' asu career 2019-2021
39 starts, 18-11
451 for 723 (62%)
6k passing yards (8.3 y/a)
32 tds, 13 ints
1300 rushing yards (4.4 ypc), 13 tds

mccarthy um career 2021-2023
29 starts, 28-1 record (only loss vs TCU)
482 for 713 (67%)
6200 passing yards (8.7 y/a)
49 tds, 11 ints
630 total rushing yards (3.9 ypc), 10 rushing tds

yes daniels was always a better runner and gotten even better - but in every way including as a runner he was nowhere near the prospect he became at LSU if we are comparing the same experience level to where JJM is right now. in his 17 starts at ASU in 2020/2021 after Aiyuk went to the NFL he regressed across the board. He had 15 tds and 11 ints in those 17 games combined. He was clearly a different player when he had Aiyuk (then Nabers/Thomas) than he was without them.

Which would be true of anyone, including JJM who has never had receivers on that level. Which is the entire point. If he had another 715 passes to throw at LSU to Thomas/Nabers as Daniels did, he likely would have put up some monster statistical seasons and gotten himself in the 1oa conversation and won a heisman like daniels.

As we talked about on a different thread, you see JJM as polarizing but i think that is the wrong frame. I think the right framing is that he is more of an unknown with high variance because he is so much less experienced. caleb williams threw 1,100 passes in his career. drake maye threw 950. daniels threw 1400. there's maybe a little more risk that he's a fluke than others but there's also upside that with more time in a better situation it's not hard to project that he may have turned himself into the 2025 1oa pick.

In comment 16415988 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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his first four years were 2.8, 6.8, 5.1 and 4.8. The 6.8 was in a season when he played 3 games. Last season it was 8.4. I don't see the comparison to LJ. What I do see is a big bump in his 5th year. In two 2023 games he rushed for 400 yards. Against Florida who had a terrible D he ran for over 200 yards rushing.

Daniels is not as slippery as LJ. He runs in a more upright manner. But he is quick and fast.

It's funny that you should bring up the Florida game, as perhaps, a reason to question Daniels stats there. No other QB ever in FBS had the stats JD had in the FL game. The only QB ever to throw for more than 350 and run for more than 200 yds. And while the FL defense was poor, they were not historically bad.

IMO, JD is the most dynamic QB in the upcoming draft.

It was two games that caught my attention but I just mentioned Florida. With the Bama game he totaled 23c/397y/17.2ypc. So without those he is in line with his past years performances I posted.

I just think his running ability may be overstated. Still good but not all that close to what LJ did in college imv.

Regardless, I want a QB drafted for what he does in the pocket.

In comment 16416056 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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It was two games that caught my attention but I just mentioned Florida. With the Bama game he totaled 23c/397y/17.2ypc. So without those he is in line with his past years performances I posted. I just think his running ability may be overstated. Still good but not all that close to what LJ did in college imv. Regardless, I want a QB drafted for what he does in the pocket.

JD threw for 40 TD's and 4 int with 3800 + yards. Now granted, he had wonderful recievers but, those passing stats mostly came from the pocket.

In comment 16415987 BigBlueShock said:

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You’re all about traits though. McCarthy seems to check the boxes for what traits you love. You always say you can coach the other stuff but can’t coach traits. College production is generally low on your list of importance. Wondering why there’s some inconsistency in your evaluation of McCarthy compared to other QBs that you loved based solely on traits?

You are right re: traits.

But the Big Three have those traits, too, and we just have more content/examples to support those skills.

McCarthy has a plus arm, but so do the other three (some might argue Daniels doesn't).

McCarthy looks to have good scrambling ability. But Daniels and Williams have much more ability there.

McCarthy looks to have ability to make off-platform throws with different arm angles. But the others have shown more there, too. Especially CW and Maye.

So, when you have players with similar skills, I think you have to defer to the players who have much bigger sample sizes to support the consistency of those skills.

Like I said, if we took McCarthy the biggest positive is that we would be adding a player who is much more talented than Jones. So, that's good...

In comment 16416022 GaryR said:

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Daniels is not as slippery as LJ. He runs in a more upright manner. But he is quick and fast. It's funny that you should bring up the Florida game, as perhaps, a reason to question Daniels stats there. No other QB ever in FBS had the stats JD had in the FL game. The only QB ever to throw for more than 350 and run for more than 200 yds. And while the FL defense was poor, they were not historically bad. IMO, JD is the most dynamic QB in the upcoming draft.

I don't care if Florida's D wasn't a good team D. They always have great athletes and future pros. And Daniels ran through them like he was playing Gainsville Community College.

But don't stop there in the SEC. He had 120 yards rushing against A&M. He had 163 yards rushing against Bama. Another 130 against Mizzu. Another 100 versus Ole Miss. He had 93 against Auburn.

Those are big brand programs who get elite athletes playing in the SEC.

you also had a big jump in his Y/A and bigger one in AY/A.
Agree with you about the WR's. LSU spread it out vertically which opened up a lot of running lanes. This was good game plan considering how good the LSU OL was.

JD deserves a lot of credit for execution even in the soft soft D SECW that has had a lot of coaching turnover.

In comment 16416087 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16416022 GaryR said: Quote: Daniels is not as slippery as LJ. He runs in a more upright manner. But he is quick and fast. It's funny that you should bring up the Florida game, as perhaps, a reason to question Daniels stats there. No other QB ever in FBS had the stats JD had in the FL game. The only QB ever to throw for more than 350 and run for more than 200 yds. And while the FL defense was poor, they were not historically bad. IMO, JD is the most dynamic QB in the upcoming draft. I don't care if Florida's D wasn't a good team D. They always have great athletes and future pros. And Daniels ran through them like he was playing Gainsville Community College. But don't stop there in the SEC. He had 120 yards rushing against A&M. He had 163 yards rushing against Bama. Another 130 against Mizzu. Another 100 versus Ole Miss. He had 93 against Auburn. Those are big brand programs who get elite athletes playing in the SEC.

BW, you don't have to convince me of Daniels talent. I see all the SEC games down here in FL.

He could have come close or even set the 350/200 record against Alabama if not for the cheapshot by Dallas Turner.

I have nothing but respect for what JD did against the SEC defenses, even though, some did not play up to their historical averages. And that includes LSU's defense, btw. Daniels had to put up huge #'s in part because LSU's D was not as good as it has been in the past.

In comment 16416139 GaryR said:

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BW, you don't have to convince me of Daniels talent. I see all the SEC games down here in FL. He could have come close or even set the 350/200 record against Alabama if not for the cheapshot by Dallas Turner. I have nothing but respect for what JD did against the SEC defenses, even though, some did not play up to their historical averages. And that includes LSU's defense, btw. Daniels had to put up huge #'s in part because LSU's D was not as good as it has been in the past.

Agree with everything you wrote.

BTW, I came into this season having zero interest in Daniels as a QB prospect.

Here's why I'm not buying the McCarthy at 6 noise.

Let's say Giants stay at 6 and Williams, Maye, and Daniels are gone. Giants pick at 6, and then there are 5 teams between picks 7 and 14 that "need" a quarterback: Falcons, Vikings, Broncos, Raiders, Saints. You could argue that 3 of those teams will probably look into taking a QB or trading up for one. You'd think Falcons will get this deal done with Fields but that remains to be seen.

So, if the Giants pass on McCarthy at 6 he is probably gone by 14, they'd have to trade back up to basically anywhere from 8-12 to make sure they got him. And even then, other teams might be trying to jump them.

So Joe Schoen basically has to convince himself that McCarthy is worth the 6th pick of the draft, otherwise you aren't getting him unless you part ways with both second rounders or one, and an additional 1st rounder in 2025 to move all the way back up.

It doesn't make sense to me. I think he will value a WR or edge at that spot and I'm not sure he gets all the way there with McCarthy being selected that high.

In comment 16416317 ryanmkeane said:

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Here's why I'm not buying the McCarthy at 6 noise. Let's say Giants stay at 6 and Williams, Maye, and Daniels are gone. Giants pick at 6, and then there are 5 teams between picks 7 and 14 that "need" a quarterback: Falcons, Vikings, Broncos, Raiders, Saints. You could argue that 3 of those teams will probably look into taking a QB or trading up for one. You'd think Falcons will get this deal done with Fields but that remains to be seen. So, if the Giants pass on McCarthy at 6 he is probably gone by 14, they'd have to trade back up to basically anywhere from 8-12 to make sure they got him. And even then, other teams might be trying to jump them. So Joe Schoen basically has to convince himself that McCarthy is worth the 6th pick of the draft, otherwise you aren't getting him unless you part ways with both second rounders or one, and an additional 1st rounder in 2025 to move all the way back up. It doesn't make sense to me. I think he will value a WR or edge at that spot and I'm not sure he gets all the way there with McCarthy being selected that high.

Did you really need to go into all that just to say you think there are better players to take at #6?