Idiotic AF in the moment and idiotic AF now. I think Mara made that call because of merch and all that pointless drivel that has nothing to do with winning.
they didnt just pay him last year they also offered him extensions
The Giants who last year offered more than $12 m a year for 3 years or Barkley who turned down an offer probably better than what he’ll get this year or next? Unless Gettleman gets another GM job
From a former player still works with team - Barley has lost a step and they won't be resigning him
He has not regained that sudden explosiveness prior to the ACL. Very few athletes his size had his explosiveness and ability to stop and start. The plays he made in ‘18 were eye-popping. He is still a good player, but the player he was before had good chance of being legit great even in today’s passing league. Easy guy to root for too.
The Giants who last year offered more than $12 m a year for 3 years or Barkley who turned down an offer probably better than what he’ll get this year or next? Unless Gettleman gets another GM job
I believe you got both points wrong. The Giants may have offered that per year but the guarantees were lower to hedge their bet. And for Barkley, he likely made a good decision not signing it.
From a former player still works with team - Barley has lost a step and they won't be resigning him
IF that's the case, fine by me. If the Giants, after pouring over hours and hours of gamefilm from this past season have determined that Barkley left a lot of meat on the bone this past season, by all means, let him walk. It's hard to tell on regular TV but to me he still looked like a quality RB who was more concerned with getting 3-4 yards per carry rather than hitting the HR. But maybe he did lose a step. I can't deny that possibility exists. Regardless, he still rushed for nearly 1000 yards despite missing 3-4 games. Still got you 10 TDs. And he did this in less than ideal circumstances. I think he's still a player in this league.
From a former player still works with team - Barley has lost a step and they won't be resigning him
IF that's the case, fine by me. If the Giants, after pouring over hours and hours of gamefilm from this past season have determined that Barkley left a lot of meat on the bone this past season, by all means, let him walk. It's hard to tell on regular TV but to me he still looked like a quality RB who was more concerned with getting 3-4 yards per carry rather than hitting the HR. But maybe he did lose a step. I can't deny that possibility exists. Regardless, he still rushed for nearly 1000 yards despite missing 3-4 games. Still got you 10 TDs. And he did this in less than ideal circumstances. I think he's still a player in this league.
Regardless of the info I passed along - we all know he's not the elite player he once was.
I agree that he's still a starting quality RB but...
Outside of McCaffrey and a handful of others, paying 10 mil+/year for a RB is not good cap management IMO.
Whether it's fair or not - you can get a good RB for much less
and yet some of the best teams in football pay the RB and have been paying the RB and will continue to pay the RB.
I get your point to an extent, but other than Henry and McCaff, who else is worth that kind of money? D Cook fell off a cliff. Kamara isnt what he was when Breed was QB. Jacobs just isnt. Chubb you could have made an argument for prior to his injury.
The Giants who last year offered more than $12 m a year for 3 years or Barkley who turned down an offer probably better than what he’ll get this year or next? Unless Gettleman gets another GM job
or they don't want to pay $10M any longer for Barkley?
Or neither?
On one hand, I see the argument against paying him or any RB that much. I also think people have to realize we aren't replacing 2018 Barkley, but rather 2023 Barkley, who looked to have lost half a step and is banged up.
On the other hand, they have so many other holes, I can see the value in rolling the dice again with him. But, I would do 1 3 year deal to amortize the guaranteed money, with the understanding he probably only lasts 2. I would guarantee more than the single year tag, but less than 2 years on the tag yields. For example, if the tag is $12.5M, as I understand it, guarantee something like $18M with a low salary and incentives. That gives him more up front than another 1 year tag, but not the equivalent or more long term.
that’s what I’m getting at, and why I roll my eyes with it coming from Ranaan. I don’t buy for a second that we don’t see value in spending at RB, but I do buy them not wanting to spend it on Barkley.
who is the RB? If they plan on bringing in a FA, they are all similar guys in terms of years of service and quality. Are they getting Jacobs or Pollard or Elliott or Ekeler or Henry or anyone else for less than $10M?
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
who is the RB? If they plan on bringing in a FA, they are all similar guys in terms of years of service and quality. Are they getting Jacobs or Pollard or Elliott or Ekeler or Henry or anyone else for less than $10M?
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
Improve the o-line and hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do. Tall tasks for the Giants.
and yet some of the best teams in football pay the RB and have been paying the RB and will continue to pay the RB.
Really? That's your take on the last few years in the NFL? It seems like a significant percentage of the good running backs in the NFL are free agents this year. Do you think any of them are really getting paid? I don't. I doubt any one of them will get anything like a true $10MM per year.
Almost no teams are paying more than $10MM. Basically 4. Only 1 back was worth that last year.
Still think SB will get Miles Sanders money. Or worse.
RE: RE: I look at it this way, if they don't re-sign Barkley
who is the RB? If they plan on bringing in a FA, they are all similar guys in terms of years of service and quality. Are they getting Jacobs or Pollard or Elliott or Ekeler or Henry or anyone else for less than $10M?
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
Improve the o-line and hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do. Tall tasks for the Giants.
who are the late round rbs "every other team" has hit on?
there were 20 rbs over 900 yards last year on a quick count 15 of them were day 1 or day 2 picks.
the outliers weres kyren (5th rd), pacheco (7th rd), mostert (udfa), pollard (4th rd), and chubba hubbard (4th rd).
almost all the other teams without a rb who went over 900 yards roster rbs who were also day 1 or 2 picks (javonte, taylor, jacobs, kamara, brian robinson, zeke, singletary, mattison, dillon, etc).
the idea that everyone is finding cheap running backs on day 3 is a false one so whether it's barkley or someone else the giants are likely signing a veteran before the draft.
What has he ever done to get that kind of money ? Barkley had to fight the battles by himself with that do-nothing O-line, got 900 plus yards an got an invite to the pro bowl. I’d say he’s still worth every penny they give him.
RE: I get it, but they’re will to tag McKinney for $16.2M ? .......
What has he ever done to get that kind of money ? Barkley had to fight the battles by himself with that do-nothing O-line, got 900 plus yards an got an invite to the pro bowl. I’d say he’s still worth every penny they give him.
Well that does it. If Manny wants to pay Barkley $10M, then it is in fact a mistake to do so. It is no longer an opinion, it is science.
What has he ever done to get that kind of money ? Barkley had to fight the battles by himself with that do-nothing O-line, got 900 plus yards a got an invite to the pro bowl. I’d say he’s still worth every penny they give him.
Barkley has been paid for that already. Being chosen #2 overall made him instantly one of the higher paid RBs in the league, and the franchise tag guaranteed him another $10+ million in 2023.
Give him his gold watch of appreciation and move on.
where several guys are hovering at 600+ yards works too.
And a Day 2 pick for a RB is fine as well. Just not every draft.
set the threshold wherever you want. the list doubles to 39 rbs over 462 yards. i named most of those 39 above the vast majority are still day 1 or day 2 picks.
last year 10 RBs went on day 3 of the draft and roschon johnson led the way with 350 yards (he was also the first off the board at the top of the 4th round). eric gray may have actually been the 2nd most productive day 3 rb last year. the idea in the post i responded to "hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do" is just not accurate. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/running-backs-drafted-in-2023-nfl-draft/ - ( New Window )
That’s because they share the yards with other day 2 and day 3 guys
in the unit, or their QB runs a lot too. Don’t be obtuse, the point is don’t need nor should want high drafted or highly paid backs any longer. Or if you do then you are pushing an agenda to keep and pay Saquon above market dollars.
Rushing Yardage totals are not a good way to measure HB
Unless there was some agreement made off the record in gentleman's terms i can't understand why the Giants didn't trade Barkley at the deadline.
Even if they only received a third round pick basically equivalent of compensation they would have had some cap relief which would have helped them and they would have had a chance to have a young running back, get snaps and get experience.
If they had dealt Barkley sure it could have impacted the locker room and they probably would have more losses.
Okay, would that have been a bad thing considering where the Giants are right now?.
RE: That’s because they share the yards with other day 2 and day 3 guys
in the unit, or their QB runs a lot too. Don’t be obtuse, the point is don’t need nor should want high drafted or highly paid backs any longer. Or if you do then you are pushing an agenda to keep and pay Saquon above market dollars.
That’s not accurate either, since that RBBC approach can be costly (San Fran, Detroit, etc) or just doesn’t lead to enough big plays to be worth the minimal savings.
It’s possible to not want to pay Barkley what he wants and also recognize that RBBC sounds better than it is, or only works when you have an elite team already. There’s a lot of middle ground here. So much to do over a few million in savings, if that.
No, it is accurate. Spreading the dollars also spreads the risk
to injury by spreading the carries moreso. And if you keep churning over the RBs than you won’t get caught levered with one guy who is either out or wants a new deal. The republic goes on.
in the unit, or their QB runs a lot too. Don’t be obtuse, the point is don’t need nor should want high drafted or highly paid backs any longer. Or if you do then you are pushing an agenda to keep and pay Saquon above market dollars.
simple non-obtuse question for you - how many of these teams went into 2023 without a "high drafted" (day 1 or 2) or "highly paid" rb?
you may notice the word "barkley" absent from this post, this point is entirely separate from whatever they do with him.
RE: No, it is accurate. Spreading the dollars also spreads the risk
to injury by spreading the carries moreso. And if you keep churning over the RBs than you won’t get caught levered with one guy who is either out or wants a new deal. The republic goes on.
it seemed clear he didn't like spending on a RB. His back ups stunk this year so not sure if that impacts him going forward. Fine with RBBC but I like a very strong lead back. I also think the OL/scheme is a big factor making it work.
Unfortunately this regime does not seem to want to make running the ball with the RB's a high priority. They had issues with RB production when JS/BD were with the Bills. So don't expect a SF or Detroit running game here imv. We'll see.
Something's wrong with Evan Engram making $M15 last year ....
want to buy themselves time for a true run to build their NYG team then they just need to leave all previous FA's unsigned and creatively figure out a way to part ways with Jones.
This is not a HOF player. A lot of hype that didnt deliver. Some because of bad coaching/management, some because of injury and some because of bad luck. Time to move on.
this season. Barkley will not get less than 12 mil per I predict from the Giants.
Giants have been trying to extend him since 2022 and his value goes beyond just numbers. They will not insult him by dropping his numbers below 10 mil and I don't think he would accept that after the numbers he declined last year.
Makes not trading him even more of a puzzling move.
guess we will find out soon enough but seems like a piece of reporting that doesnt fit what the gm has both said and done.
I was thinking the same thing...LOL
Thats what they will give SB again this year
Unfortunately he does.
I think many people can see his speed has diminished since his outstanding rookie year.
This would make more sense than what Ranaan is claiming.
Please don't take this as snarky, but we all can see he's lost a step. I appreciate the 2nd half of your message though. Thanks for sharing.
He has not regained that sudden explosiveness prior to the ACL. Very few athletes his size had his explosiveness and ability to stop and start. The plays he made in ‘18 were eye-popping. He is still a good player, but the player he was before had good chance of being legit great even in today’s passing league. Easy guy to root for too.
I believe you got both points wrong. The Giants may have offered that per year but the guarantees were lower to hedge their bet. And for Barkley, he likely made a good decision not signing it.
IF that's the case, fine by me. If the Giants, after pouring over hours and hours of gamefilm from this past season have determined that Barkley left a lot of meat on the bone this past season, by all means, let him walk. It's hard to tell on regular TV but to me he still looked like a quality RB who was more concerned with getting 3-4 yards per carry rather than hitting the HR. But maybe he did lose a step. I can't deny that possibility exists. Regardless, he still rushed for nearly 1000 yards despite missing 3-4 games. Still got you 10 TDs. And he did this in less than ideal circumstances. I think he's still a player in this league.
Quote:
From a former player still works with team - Barley has lost a step and they won't be resigning him
IF that's the case, fine by me. If the Giants, after pouring over hours and hours of gamefilm from this past season have determined that Barkley left a lot of meat on the bone this past season, by all means, let him walk. It's hard to tell on regular TV but to me he still looked like a quality RB who was more concerned with getting 3-4 yards per carry rather than hitting the HR. But maybe he did lose a step. I can't deny that possibility exists. Regardless, he still rushed for nearly 1000 yards despite missing 3-4 games. Still got you 10 TDs. And he did this in less than ideal circumstances. I think he's still a player in this league.
Regardless of the info I passed along - we all know he's not the elite player he once was.
I agree that he's still a starting quality RB but...
Outside of McCaffrey and a handful of others, paying 10 mil+/year for a RB is not good cap management IMO.
Whether it's fair or not - you can get a good RB for much less
I get your point to an extent, but other than Henry and McCaff, who else is worth that kind of money? D Cook fell off a cliff. Kamara isnt what he was when Breed was QB. Jacobs just isnt. Chubb you could have made an argument for prior to his injury.
His agent definitely screwed the pooch.
Quote:
Smart.
Makes not trading him even more of a puzzling move.
Yep. Problem is what SB sees when he looks in the mirror is not what we (and probably a lot of teams around the league) see when he plays.
Or neither?
On one hand, I see the argument against paying him or any RB that much. I also think people have to realize we aren't replacing 2018 Barkley, but rather 2023 Barkley, who looked to have lost half a step and is banged up.
On the other hand, they have so many other holes, I can see the value in rolling the dice again with him. But, I would do 1 3 year deal to amortize the guaranteed money, with the understanding he probably only lasts 2. I would guarantee more than the single year tag, but less than 2 years on the tag yields. For example, if the tag is $12.5M, as I understand it, guarantee something like $18M with a low salary and incentives. That gives him more up front than another 1 year tag, but not the equivalent or more long term.
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
Improve the o-line and hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do. Tall tasks for the Giants.
Really? That's your take on the last few years in the NFL? It seems like a significant percentage of the good running backs in the NFL are free agents this year. Do you think any of them are really getting paid? I don't. I doubt any one of them will get anything like a true $10MM per year.
Almost no teams are paying more than $10MM. Basically 4. Only 1 back was worth that last year.
Still think SB will get Miles Sanders money. Or worse.
Quote:
who is the RB? If they plan on bringing in a FA, they are all similar guys in terms of years of service and quality. Are they getting Jacobs or Pollard or Elliott or Ekeler or Henry or anyone else for less than $10M?
Barkley is still one of the top FA RBs available. I have no idea what the market will bear for them, but he does still have value. It's just a question of how much.
Improve the o-line and hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do. Tall tasks for the Giants.
who are the late round rbs "every other team" has hit on?
there were 20 rbs over 900 yards last year on a quick count 15 of them were day 1 or day 2 picks.
the outliers weres kyren (5th rd), pacheco (7th rd), mostert (udfa), pollard (4th rd), and chubba hubbard (4th rd).
almost all the other teams without a rb who went over 900 yards roster rbs who were also day 1 or 2 picks (javonte, taylor, jacobs, kamara, brian robinson, zeke, singletary, mattison, dillon, etc).
the idea that everyone is finding cheap running backs on day 3 is a false one so whether it's barkley or someone else the giants are likely signing a veteran before the draft.
And a Day 2 pick for a RB is fine as well. Just not every draft.
Well that does it. If Manny wants to pay Barkley $10M, then it is in fact a mistake to do so. It is no longer an opinion, it is science.
Barkley has been paid for that already. Being chosen #2 overall made him instantly one of the higher paid RBs in the league, and the franchise tag guaranteed him another $10+ million in 2023.
Give him his gold watch of appreciation and move on.
I'm a founding member of the Running Back Positional Value Club -- but that's not a number anyone should be batting a lash at.
And a Day 2 pick for a RB is fine as well. Just not every draft.
set the threshold wherever you want. the list doubles to 39 rbs over 462 yards. i named most of those 39 above the vast majority are still day 1 or day 2 picks.
last year 10 RBs went on day 3 of the draft and roschon johnson led the way with 350 yards (he was also the first off the board at the top of the 4th round). eric gray may have actually been the 2nd most productive day 3 rb last year. the idea in the post i responded to "hit on a late-round RB like every other team seems to be able to do" is just not accurate.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/running-backs-drafted-in-2023-nfl-draft/ - ( New Window )
Even if they only received a third round pick basically equivalent of compensation they would have had some cap relief which would have helped them and they would have had a chance to have a young running back, get snaps and get experience.
If they had dealt Barkley sure it could have impacted the locker room and they probably would have more losses.
Okay, would that have been a bad thing considering where the Giants are right now?.
That’s not accurate either, since that RBBC approach can be costly (San Fran, Detroit, etc) or just doesn’t lead to enough big plays to be worth the minimal savings.
It’s possible to not want to pay Barkley what he wants and also recognize that RBBC sounds better than it is, or only works when you have an elite team already. There’s a lot of middle ground here. So much to do over a few million in savings, if that.
Quote:
From a former player still works with team - Barley has lost a step and they won't be resigning him
Please don't see this as snarky ...proceeds to get in totally unnecessary snarky jab. It's amazing the asshats even post here still
Please don't take this as snarky, but we all can see he's lost a step. I appreciate the 2nd half of your message though. Thanks for sharing.
simple non-obtuse question for you - how many of these teams went into 2023 without a "high drafted" (day 1 or 2) or "highly paid" rb?
you may notice the word "barkley" absent from this post, this point is entirely separate from whatever they do with him.
You win, you’ve got it all figured out.
Oy Vey!
Unfortunately this regime does not seem to want to make running the ball with the RB's a high priority. They had issues with RB production when JS/BD were with the Bills. So don't expect a SF or Detroit running game here imv. We'll see.
And now this team is worrying about Saquon.
Engram's contract with JAX -
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/evan-engram-21764/
IF the O-line gets fixed, will "who ever" go for 1000 yards ?
If it doesn't, 6 wins may not be possible.
Quote:
Smart.
Makes not trading him even more of a puzzling move.
Giants have been trying to extend him since 2022 and his value goes beyond just numbers. They will not insult him by dropping his numbers below 10 mil and I don't think he would accept that after the numbers he declined last year.