He doesn't say they have buyer's remorse. He says he has heard others say it. Subtle difference. He never gave his own opinion. He gave a blanket "I heard it at the combine..." comment.
How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
I've said it many times. Turning down the 5th year option was correct. But, then how do you turn around and take 2022 and treat him as an elite QB? Nice story, but paying him $45M when 9 or so months prior you weren't sure about him is crazy. What changed your mind so drastically? Now, they are stuck with that decision next year whether he is in their long term plans or not.
RE: Schoen really blew his first major move as GM outta his ass
How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
It will be a big tell this year about Schoen whether he reverses course and fixes the mistake, or doubles down on it. I am hoping this is correct and the Jones era is behind us.
RE: Schoen really blew his first major move as GM outta his ass
Once you have made a bad decision or one rooted in some soft assumptions, the best thing to do is admit you have a problem and admit the causation for that error and work to fix it.
How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
It was a brutal spot for Schoen. A playoff win with the guy drafted #6 and ownership loves. He screwed up, but a very tough situation for a young, first time GM.
The fact that he doesn't appear to be doubling down is encouraging and a potentially very strong lesson learned going forward.
isn't the mistake Schoen made, it was bidding against himself and committing over $80M guaranteed. There was very little chance that Jones was ever going to outplay that contract and ever make it a good value for the team. They basically paid him to be the QB they hoped he'd be, rather than the QB he repeatedly showed that he was.
Let's see how another team (Tampa) handles a similar situation with Baker Mayfield this offseason.
How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
I'm ok with mistakes if they recognize and pivot from them.
Finally some hope.
Bingo. The 49ers gave up 3 first round picks to draft Trey Lance, kept building the team around him then had the stones to move on pretty quickly when it was clear he wasn’t the guy. Giants need that kind of decisiveness
RE: RE: Schoen really blew his first major move as GM outta his ass
isn't the mistake Schoen made, it was bidding against himself and committing over $80M guaranteed. There was very little chance that Jones was ever going to outplay that contract and ever make it a good value for the team. They basically paid him to be the QB they hoped he'd be, rather than the QB he repeatedly showed that he was.
Let's see how another team (Tampa) handles a similar situation with Baker Mayfield this offseason.
Again, once again, that is NOT what happened. So many of you totally miss the boat on what happened. The biggest mistake was (and this may have been a Mara influence issue) was they were bound and determined to keep BARKLEY. That meant either they get a deal done with him and Franchise Jones (probably the preferred way) or take the lesser risk long term (higher numbers in total contract but with less guarantees etc) and sign Jones to franchise Barkley..
Had they just let Barkley go and franchised Jones this would be a whole different situation.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
Yes GeoMan. Everyone is a liar with an agenda. Who could possibly think that the peoples in charge arent interested in tying their careers to Daniel Fucking Jones? Just off the charts implausible.
2023 was critical for Jones. It was not a "you're safe for now" contract. He had to at least tread water or ascend, because the contract begs for either a restructure or a release early on.
Jones probably shook all confidence they had regarding his trajectory.
I don't think Jones and his agents will ever regret asking for that money, because they got it, but I do wonder if he would've played looser and more relaxed if he got something exactly like the Carr or Geno contracts. That $40 million put a target on his back and incentized Schoen to give himself an early out.
even if the Giants wanted to believe in DJ. How can they trust him with the injuries. The injuries are unfortunate but serious neck problems and major knee issue tough to go full force with him for the future.
He probably plays next year because of the contract assuming he's healthy but after that they do have to start to plan for a new QB.
I wonder how the injury guarantee in Jones' contract plays into the calculation of when the rookie plays. Should you risk playing Jones, him getting injured, and being stuck paying him in 2025?
Once you have made a bad decision or one rooted in some soft assumptions, the best thing to do is admit you have a problem and admit the causation for that error and work to fix it.
I wonder how the injury guarantee in Jones' contract plays into the calculation of when the rookie plays. Should you risk playing Jones, him getting injured, and being stuck paying him in 2025?
I suspect we draft a rookie and that rookie is going to play and play early. The Giants could let Jones start the season off and then replace him or just let him backup the rookie and hope someone desperately needs a QB like what we saw with multiple teams this year.
I wonder how the injury guarantee in Jones' contract plays into the calculation of when the rookie plays. Should you risk playing Jones, him getting injured, and being stuck paying him in 2025?
They have to decide what they think of Jones. If they are getting a QB at #6, you are done with Jones. If that is the case, you staple him to the bench so you don't risk the cap hit of the injury guarantee for 2025.
If you still "believe" in Jones, you pick a rookie in the second/third and you play Jones the minute he is healthy.
What they can't do is walk a middle line of getting a QB at #6, and sitting him while Jones runs around losing games while everyone keeps their fingers crossed he doesn't get hurt.
"Two words that were hard at the Combine multiple times: 'buyer's remorse'."
Hard indeed!!!!
Like you hard on hate for Jones, from day 1....
Say what you want about a poster and a spelling mistake but Jones was a mistake from the start…. The guy who fell “in full bloom love” with him and over-drafted him didn’t last that much longer. Bad OL’s, injuries, missed open receivers and an undeserved contract since are all water under the bridge at this point. Jones is easy to like as a person but his athletic abilities are what they are and they just aren’t enough.
The link below was posted in some other Jones thread earlier this week and probably deserves its own thread for its prescience…. Whether anyone hated him from day 1 or not, and there were plenty of reasons to if you did, it is finally time to move on from him.
contract Schoen and the rest of the FO gave Jones was disastrous. It is a big stain on Schoen's record, and even if his injury guarantee is never invoked, will still cause the Giants to incur a $22M cap hit next year, the largest in team history. And that is on top of the $47M they will pay him this year.
But I agree that Schoen can recover if he finds us our next franchise QB. My concern is that in a desperate desire to do so he will overpay in terms of draft capital by moving up to draft a QB.
Jones belongs in the league, just not as a full-time starter. He's a high-end backup or a "bridge" starter for a year or two for a team that needs some time to try and find a franchise QB. Like Tyrod Taylor or Gardner Minshew. Nothing wrong with that.
but there is no way on Earth Schoen says something like that out loud....or in confidence.
Agreed; no chance that Schoen says it *out loud.* But... this is the type of thing you might be able to glean from second-hand reporting from the meetings the Giants have had with QBs and receivers at the combine.
Then again, this is smokescreen season, so it's really hard to know how true it is. But I'm sure that at a bare minimum the Giants' process with the QBs is extremely serious.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
I just choked on my cough drop. That was very funny...
Buyers remorse is perfectly fine if you do something about it. Works for me.
It's better if you don't make the mistake in the first place, especially if the mistake was readily apparent off the hop. He gets no credit for coming out of a coma a year later and realizing he fucked up.
Schoen needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to keep the job.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him find success in a better situation either.
You literally could not find worse playing conditions than he had here, his entire career. Worst combination of coaching/OL/skill players in the NFL since 2019.
Again that’s life. But Mara’s quote about mismanaging a young QB rings true.
but there is no way on Earth Schoen says something like that out loud....or in confidence.
Agreed; no chance that Schoen says it *out loud.* But... this is the type of thing you might be able to glean from second-hand reporting from the meetings the Giants have had with QBs and receivers at the combine.
Then again, this is smokescreen season, so it's really hard to know how true it is. But I'm sure that at a bare minimum the Giants' process with the QBs is extremely serious.
The smokescreen would be the opposite (and the stance they’ve taken publicly): that DJ is the starter, he’s ahead of schedule and on track for the start of the season.
And not just for the obvious reasons. You hate seeing it not work for a guy who says and does all the right things. I wish him well and hope he lands in a solid spot.
And not just for the obvious reasons. You hate seeing it not work for a guy who says and does all the right things. I wish him well and hope he lands in a solid spot.
Tough shit. Don't feel the least bit sorry for him. It's a tough profession. For looking like a qb from central casting, Daniel Jones is walking out with a tens of millions of dollars despite being a lousy qb. He will never need to work again. Buh-bye
Buyers remorse is perfectly fine if you do something about it. Works for me.
It's better if you don't make the mistake in the first place, especially if the mistake was readily apparent off the hop. He gets no credit for coming out of a coma a year later and realizing he fucked up.
Schoen needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to keep the job.
Ok. Seems like many disagree with you on that and not a single person has argued Schoen doesn’t need to do better.
The key is "knowing when to fold 'em," and it sounds like Schoen realized his mistake - understandable as it may have been at the time, given Jones' solid play at the end of 2022 and the team's road playoff win.
The key is not to beat him up over it but look forward and see how he learns.
And regarding the Giants giving away their strategy....my hunch is that this is not exactly earth-shattering news and that few people in the know, if anyone, are surprised.
Huge contract, but structured in a way that doesn't cripple the cap and leaves the team with an out next year.
Yep, I just don't see it as a colossal failure. I suspect Schoen and Daboll went in and said "OK, what's the worst that can happen if Jones doesn't progress or gets hurt again? $22m in dead money in 2025? We can live with that" and made the deal, knowing that this was a possibility.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
LOL. I may not even follow the Giants if they pick a QB in the draft. Not.
be in play is , they might have to play him (Jones) this year but they are done with him.
I think the writing is on the wall and we go QB here in the draft. Now the who is to be determined but I think we go in our guy.
jvm, it's also the "how" to be determined. Eisen's top 5 rumors #4 was that JD is QB #2 and top rumor #1 is that Bears go with CW. It is lying season, but it's hard to see who Schoen can unseat from a dyed-in-the-wool QB pick.
And not just for the obvious reasons. You hate seeing it not work for a guy who says and does all the right things. I wish him well and hope he lands in a solid spot.
Tough shit. Don't feel the least bit sorry for him. It's a tough profession. For looking like a qb from central casting, Daniel Jones is walking out with a tens of millions of dollars despite being a lousy qb. He will never need to work again. Buh-bye
Laying his balls on the table and asking for $50 million, then 'settling' for $40 million in a "I'm clearly better than Carr and Geno" contract, then going out and playing
like trash and then trying to be a wallflower while the team was going through hell ruined much sympathy I'll have for him.
with innuendo and no hard quotes is some kind of "a-ha" moment about the Giants' intentions. Mind you, I'm among those who believe they've already made the decision to move on from Jones.
It's just amusing seeing the backtracking from those who were convinced that the Giants were dead set on keeping Jones until the apocalypse (both those who supported and loathed such a decision).
And will have cap room next season. DJ money isn’t ideal but it’s not the end of the world. Just bring in better players and build this thing.
Also, DJ like it plays week 1. None of this chatter means fuck all but I presume we’re feeling better since the hysterics from some talkies implying that nyg still believed in jones? Good. Don’t get too high or low.
Not sure this deserves a sticky as it is clear rumor and clearly stated as such by Rich Eisen, but boy does this bring hope to the Giants if true.
So did I. This is complete speculation but it doesn’t take a savant to believe that the giants want to upgrade the qb position. Still, i wouldn’t get too high or ok with any of these takes. Actions from nyg is what matters not this shit.
Of Rich Eisen in an earlier thread. He really is a total cuck imo.
But this is just a story for some March views.
I'm not sure you were yelled at. People may have just thought it was a silly thing to say. Not a lot of engaging conversations start by saying someone cries in front of his wife or is a cuck.
Everything that’s come out about this team’s draft plans
Since Shoen’s takeover has been total misdirection. I’m ready to move on from Daniel but I don’t think this is the year with the money you owe him. Build a team through the draft and get a QB when you can actually compete. The fact that so many people were talking about this during the combine leads me to believe it’s bogus. Maybe they’re hoping to stir up enough QB interest that another team will trade up and they have a better shot of landing who they actually want. Everything is speculation until April. Buckle up boys and girls.
It was a bad contract, but it's far from a crippling contract. The key will be to not restructure Jones deal and not expose him to injury.
If McCarthy or whoever is a disaster, you can be in prime position to draft QB in 2026 with Jones completely off the books. If McCarthy hits, even better. Have to take a swing to upgrade QB.
Probably you with that Daniel Jones bobble head you spent your hard earned money on. Maybe take it down to the pawn shop before word gets out?
I have one. I think I paid $30 for it. Funny thing is some guy is trying to sell it for $499.99 (or best offer haha) on ebay!
That being said, I think it's a bullshit. It's telephone tag. People are extrapolating on top of extrapolating and claiming it as new information. In a few days we'll be hearing "rumors" that the Giants have hired a hitman to whack Jones with instructions to make it look like a suicide (nullifying his guaranteed money).
RE: We just saw the Broncos cut Russell Wilson today
He clearly says these are all just rumors, and even jokes at the beginning of the segment that “he’s setting his journalism degree aside” for this bit.
Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
Jones had plenty of chances this season & was terrible for most of it. And Tyrod outplayed him after Jones got hurt. The excuses for Jones need to end.
Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
Probably you with that Daniel Jones bobble head you spent your hard earned money on. Maybe take it down to the pawn shop before word gets out?
I have one. I think I paid $30 for it. Funny thing is some guy is trying to sell it for $499.99 (or best offer haha) on ebay!
That being said, I think it's a bullshit. It's telephone tag. People are extrapolating on top of extrapolating and claiming it as new information. In a few days we'll be hearing "rumors" that the Giants have hired a hitman to whack Jones with instructions to make it look like a suicide (nullifying his guaranteed money).
You are missing a pretty obvious chain of logic between the whispers that the building was split, then the letter now the obvious about face from the building as a whole. Mara got embarrassed and shifted gears, not the first time in fact this seems to be exactly how he always operates.
Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
They had plenty of tape on him and had a year of working with him and gave him that contract. They could have easily moved on last year. They signed off on keeping him. It's not a good look, especially at the QB position.
Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
I think his point is, are 5 games with disastrous play conditions really enough to completely reverse course? It seems ridiculous no matter how bad he was. The team imploded, nothing worked. It was a spectacular disaster all around.
Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
top single-year dead cap hits in NFL history
$49,600,000- Russell Wilson 👀
$40,525,000 - Matt Ryan
$40,313,570 - Aaron Rodgers
$35,400,000 - Russell Wilson 👀
$35,104,000 - Tom Brady
$33,820,611 - Carson Wentz
$26,000,000 - Russell Wilson 👀
You are missing a pretty obvious chain of logic between the whispers that the building was split, then the letter now the obvious about face from the building as a whole. Mara got embarrassed and shifted gears, not the first time in fact this seems to be exactly how he always operates.
Not sure what is confusing to you here.
None of it's confusing me. You've bought into a narrative that supports your own vision of what needs to be done and so you're drenched in confirmation bias. Which makes for good business if your livelihood depends on clicks.
I have a vision of my own on what the Giants should do and it fits in with everything they're doing and saying, but doesn't require the belief that Schoen and Daboll are incompetent yes men and Mara is a meddling boob who doesn't know football. You don't have to think Jones sucks in order to be heavily into the QB prospects this year. It's a QB-rich draft, the Giants have the 6th overall pick and two early 2nd round picks, and Jones is coming off two serious injuries in one year on top of his previous history of injuries. This is their best shot at a good young QB prospect that they can develop, but that doesn't automatically make Jones the forgotten man. Assuming no setbacks, he'll start the season. And then it's up to him. And the rumor mill won't have a say.
Not sure what is confusing to you here.
No dude straight line of logic, sorry you are blind.
You have an insane narrative that there is any reason to keep Jones that you mouth off constantly and you have the balls to tell someone else THEY are biased? Jesus.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Every giants rookie QB record whooptie doo.
Why did they have design plays to not turn the ball over Ryan?
Anything to do with his 12 interceptions and 19 fumbles?
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
A moderator was threatening to kick me out in 2022 for saying what you all are saying now. Funny how that works.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Without a vertical passing game. Jones doesn’t challenge defenses down field. That’s the number one reason TT and Tommy Cutlets looked better. It’s what Daboll’s offense is supposed to be —we saw it all throughout the preseason. Yet in two seasons now, including the 2022 which was Jones best, he’s been little more than a dunk and dunk check down Charlie. Sorry,,That won’t cut it.
You have an insane narrative that there is any reason to keep Jones that you mouth off constantly and you have the balls to tell someone else THEY are biased? Jesus.
it's confirmation bias, we're all guilty of it.
4 out of 5 of Eisen 2023 combine rumors ended up being true
5: Rivers contacted teams to play ✅
4: Bears close to trading top pick ✅
3: Not pretty between Lamar & BAL ✅
2: GB hopes Rodgers doesn’t want to return ✅
1: Brady might not be done ❌
The intent was to add weapons and establish a down field passing game. We saw glimpses of it with TT but we never saw it with Jones. Even when he had time to throw, he was scared to pull the trigger. R
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Amen to this. Revisiting old threads is fun from time to time, but now it’s solely for the purposes of “gotcha” moments that add nothing to the conversation.
I’m sure there was a little something to that Brady rumor
You have an insane narrative that there is any reason to keep Jones that you mouth off constantly and you have the balls to tell someone else THEY are biased? Jesus.
it's confirmation bias, we're all guilty of it.
Some more than others... But sure let's just wrap anyone and everyone into the idea that they have biases. The problem isn't the bias part with you the problem is the actual opinion is a bad one
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Garrett was apparently the one that pounded the table for the Giants to draft Andrew Thomas. So he's been the only guy in the room in the last decade that could identify a good lineman.
But it's a sign of maturity and growth. And, if true, the first real glimmer of hope for this franchise in awhile.
Some fans could learn a lot from this. Again, if true, I'm relieved. Anyone with two functioning eyes could see that our "franchise" QB was thoroughly outplayed by a journeyman veteran and an undrafted FA who got zero meaningful reps in the abbreviated preseason.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Says the guy who never admits when he's wrong.
Hint - it's been a LOT. But you disappear - and resurface - when it's convenient for you...
I've admitted to being wrong about plenty. I happily admit now I may be wrong about the Giants' willingness to move on from Jones and Barkley.
I'm sure you've got a record of what I've been wrong about; it matters a lot to you.
On the flip side I can't remember anything about anything you've ever posted. It just seems to be whining about other posters. You're one of a few on that score.
as a character building stress test to fortify DJ’s handling of adversity, like when Daboll would tip the defense on the plays that were going to be run during practice.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
A moderator was threatening to kick me out in 2022 for saying what you all are saying now. Funny how that works.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
contract Schoen and the rest of the FO gave Jones was disastrous. It is a big stain on Schoen's record, and even if his injury guarantee is never invoked, will still cause the Giants to incur a $22M cap hit next year, the largest in team history. And that is on top of the $47M they will pay him this year.
But I agree that Schoen can recover if he finds us our next franchise QB. My concern is that in a desperate desire to do so he will overpay in terms of draft capital by moving up to draft a QB.
Jones belongs in the league, just not as a full-time starter. He's a high-end backup or a "bridge" starter for a year or two for a team that needs some time to try and find a franchise QB. Like Tyrod Taylor or Gardner Minshew. Nothing wrong with that.
The contract isn't disastrous. It isn't a big stain on Schoen's record. The panic narrative some of you have on BBI sometimes is quite a thing.
If you actually go back and read the threads at the time the contract was signed, it was not, "My God, how can Schoen be so dumb to give Jones this contract." There was a lot of over all broad support as many felt Jones had really moved up a notch.
You can criticise the decision, but to portray it as idiocy, is itself idiotic. I'm just glad you're not our GM.
If he had accepted on of the many good offers the Giants made....
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
If he had accepted on of the many good offers the Giants made....
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
But barkley overvalued himself, and here we are.
If he makes more as a FA than he would have if he accepted the Giants offer, is he still over valuing himself?
If he had accepted on of the many good offers the Giants made....
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
But barkley overvalued himself, and here we are.
It was plain for Schoen to see where usable Cap was at most risk and which player justified how much of that risk at that juncture.
It was 5 games pluse 12 games missed due to injury, which counts in the evaluation.
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
How is it that Eisen knows something so convincingly
It was 5 games pluse 12 games missed due to injury, which counts in the evaluation.
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
Carr and Geno are both better than Jones. And cheaper. And those teams would probably be looking for a QB, yes.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
So since Jones has been here, we’ve had
1. One coach decide it’s better to punt than ask too much of the QB
2. One coach “literally designing plays to not turn the ball over”
3. The current coach putting training wheels on his otherwise aggressive offense
And your conclusion after knowing this is to blame all three coaches for holding Jones back? Haha, you simply cannot make this shit up
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Says the guy who never admits when he's wrong.
Hint - it's been a LOT. But you disappear - and resurface - when it's convenient for you...
I've admitted to being wrong about plenty. I happily admit now I may be wrong about the Giants' willingness to move on from Jones and Barkley.
I'm sure you've got a record of what I've been wrong about; it matters a lot to you.
On the flip side I can't remember anything about anything you've ever posted. It just seems to be whining about other posters. You're one of a few on that score.
Your problem is that you say things as if they are fact. You left the message board for an entire year including the playoff run, and then when Jones played poorly early on in 2023 you magically returned and started again with the "Daniel Jones sucks" stuff over and over again.
Don't really care what your opinion is. The fact that you are just such a snake about it is the most upsetting thing.
It was 5 games pluse 12 games missed due to injury, which counts in the evaluation.
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
Carr and Geno are both better than Jones. And cheaper. And those teams would probably be looking for a QB, yes.
True, and just to clarify, I agree fundamentally that the Saints and Seahawks would be looking to move on if Carr and Geno had the same year as Jones just did. Very few fans or league pundits would even criticize them for this direction. For the Giants, however, it's depicted as this horrendous about-face because few people believed Jones deserved $40 million in the first place and therefore the Giants must endure some kind of catholic penance for several years for making a wrong decision.
Amazing there are fans that still bring up Jones' 2019 rookie year
I happen to like Eisen. He helps make the three days of the draft, which lets face it is as best pretty repetitive after awhile, at worst almost boring, watchable. But this his report is BS. When NFL teams 'are done with a guy!' they're done with the guy and get rid of him see Denver. They don't keep him around for another year. It would be kind of like someone here saying they're done with their wife or girlfriend but they ain't moving out for maybe another year until they maybe find a new one. Its just not the way teams do business.
I happen to like Eisen. He helps make the three days of the draft, which lets face it is as best pretty repetitive after awhile, at worst almost boring, watchable. But this his report is BS. When NFL teams 'are done with a guy!' they're done with the guy and get rid of him see Denver. They don't keep him around for another year. It would be kind of like someone here saying they're done with their wife or girlfriend but they ain't moving out for maybe another year until they maybe find a new one. Its just not the way teams do business.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that. Link - ( New Window )
but is it possible at all that Barkley was trying to allow his blocking ( even if it is poor blocking ) to happen so he could gain positive yards, part of the reason why he didn't look as explosive to some of us? Once he got into open space he looked pretty damn good in both 2022 and 2023.
Do any of you remember young Barkley who tried out running his blocking on every play? Getting tackled for a 5-8 yard loss by bouncing runs outside too often? Running into the back on his offensive linemen? Trying to hit a homerun on every run?
To me he looks like he has taken to coaching and is trying to be a more patient NFL runner. Has he lost a step? Maybe a little but I think it is more than that.
I understand the biggest issue with Saquon is the price tag and not the player. I agree we can't tag him at $12 Million....too expensive! But a reasonable deal like 2 years $20 mill with $10 mill guaranteed is doable.
I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback. They may bring in competition but the job will be Jones' to lose. To me that means if the Giants have a winning record with Jones they will stick with him. How long a leash he gets if losing will yet to be determined. That does not sound like they are done with him.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens.
I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback.
Except this isn't what Schoen said. He said the *expectation* is that Jones would be the starter. Just like the *expectation* that Wink would return as DC.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
No it doesn’t. Done could easily mean they want to upgrade and are going to cut him once it becomes more economically feasible
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
RE: I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback. They may bring in competition but the job will be Jones' to lose. To me that means if the Giants have a winning record with Jones they will stick with him. How long a leash he gets if losing will yet to be determined. That does not sound like they are done with him.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnf-PFyFL7c - ( New Window )
Schoen also said that he expected Wink back as DC in 2024.
But by all means, let's take a press conference as gospel.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
Maybe. I still don't think anyone worth the energy leaked this to Eisen. I guess it could have happened why not, but when in doubt, depending on the context or circumstances I just assume the sports press is making shit up as they go. It has served me well.
RE: I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback. They may bring in competition but the job will be Jones' to lose. To me that means if the Giants have a winning record with Jones they will stick with him. How long a leash he gets if losing will yet to be determined. That does not sound like they are done with him.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnf-PFyFL7c - ( New Window )
Yes, let’s believe everything a GM says prior to the draft. After the draft, you may be able to say you were right, but right now, Schoen’s words mean nothing.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
Yep. I’m also not sure why he assumes that if Eisen heard these things it must have only come from the Giants. It’s been widely reported that Schoen had been gauging trade up options so it’s not difficult to believe that these leaks could have come from other organizations that the Giants had reached out to
Some of you hear that we won't be drafting a QB replacement. And this makes sense to you despite the fact that the QB that you would want to be the starter is coming off a horrible season where he was outplayed by backups and got injured (again).
But after the owner expresses this idiotic sentiment in an even dumber way "giving up" sounds like more what you say about your child struggling in school not a $40M guy at your linchpin position in a multi-billion dollar organization. He gets properly dressed down for these views the team is clearly embarrassed clown show style. Now shortly after a well connected source NFL source is saying that they will move on from this overpaid QB that has only ever shown he can be serviceable in an dumbed down offense.
This 2nd story is the story that doesn't add up? Seriously?
if they are done with him in all likelihood it will be post-draft/jun1
there's no incentive to do it earlier, and they will likely need to wait until he's cleared/can pass a physical.
the cap ramifications would be no different than if he stayed here over that period of time but they would take away the risk of any more gtd$ triggering by injury.
i suspect they would want to wait until after the draft to ensure they get a player they want since jones is a relatively "free" backup plan.
id be surprised if they were done with him in the way the broncos are done with wilson, but even if they are functionally im not sure they could execute the move this early because of the injury.
I happen to like Eisen. He helps make the three days of the draft, which lets face it is as best pretty repetitive after awhile, at worst almost boring, watchable. But this his report is BS. When NFL teams 'are done with a guy!' they're done with the guy and get rid of him see Denver. They don't keep him around for another year. It would be kind of like someone here saying they're done with their wife or girlfriend but they ain't moving out for maybe another year until they maybe find a new one. Its just not the way teams do business.
Sweetie, couples actually do that all the time. They put on a brave face and carry out the facade until the kids are off to college.
In this case, the Giants are going to put on a brave face and wait until they can get out from underneath the DJ albatross.
Just remember, the stages of grief may not be sequential and can often repeat themselves along the way. It's a process, you just have to let it happen. You'll be ok.
Around another year. When you are done you cut the player. Other teams do it. Denver is cutting Wilson, they are done.
They are not done till he’s cut or they find a replacement. Maybe it’s in the draft but if they don’t find a guy in the draft they are not done. Like him or hate him he’s most likely the starter this year.
Schoen saw the guy for a year and gave him the contract. It’s 100% on him. Add it to the list of failures. The failures are much higher than the successes and I’m not sure he is a good talent evaluator. Glowinski, Jones, Campbell & Barkley. I put Barkley on the list for 2 reasons he gave him more than the franchise tag when he didn’t have to and he should have traded Barkley. Evan Neal 2 years in is a bust. You can miss on a #7 pick. There were other players available that have played at a top level so this is a big miss. 1/2 his contract is a waste.
Jones is injured and holds an injury guarantee. It's in Schoen's extreme best interest to publicly say Jones gets his job back when he's healthy. Anything else is potential ammunition for a grievance.
RE: RE: I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
Quote:
I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback.
Except this isn't what Schoen said. He said the *expectation* is that Jones would be the starter. Just like the *expectation* that Wink would return as DC.
Expectations change when situations change.
The press conf I linked I do not hear expectation. He just says he is the starrting quarterback. As far as Wink that was more a mutual decision. I don't believe Daniel wants to leave.
Around another year. When you are done you cut the player. Other teams do it. Denver is cutting Wilson, they are done.
Denver is cutting Wilson because - as bad as his contract is - it gets even worse if they allow him to remain on the roster.
The Giants are not facing the same scenario with Jones. They just need to wait it out and let him pass a physical and then decide whether to shelf him for the year or release him after June 1st.
But it is not the same as the Denver/Wilson situation because there is an actual trigger to push Denver to act now in that case, whereas the Giants can't do anything until Jones can pass a physical anyway.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Eisen did add the qualifier “even if they have to play him this season”. I certainly get questioning reports like these, but Eisen has not been the type to wallow in rumors. It likely didn’t come from a Giant FO type directly to Eisen, but the NFL personnel group is a small industry. Someone in the Giant FO makes a reference to a friend in another FO, who tells that to another, before you know it, everyone is saying it.
We won’t know until we know, but as someone pointed out above, Eisen’s track record is pretty solid.
RE: RE: RE: I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
The press conf I linked I do not hear expectation. He just says he is the starrting quarterback. As far as Wink that was more a mutual decision. I don't believe Daniel wants to leave.
The link below was from the same day. Relevant portion is around the 14:30 mark. He says they have faith in Jones and the *expectation* is that he will be the starting QB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhazS4TFC0 - ( New Window )
I happen to like Eisen. He helps make the three days of the draft, which lets face it is as best pretty repetitive after awhile, at worst almost boring, watchable. But this his report is BS. When NFL teams 'are done with a guy!' they're done with the guy and get rid of him see Denver. They don't keep him around for another year. It would be kind of like someone here saying they're done with their wife or girlfriend but they ain't moving out for maybe another year until they maybe find a new one. Its just not the way teams do business.
Name one other team that has done what Denver did. Just one. Denver is the team acting ahistorically, not the Giants for keeping a guy with a huge cap hit on the roster for another year.
If he gets hurt again they owe him $25 million more in 2025. The risk to owe a guy you no longer want $47 million in 2025 because he works out is the dumb move, not the other way around.
Pardon my ignorance regarding Jones injury clause for the 24 season.
A couple of questions:
What injury(s) severity qualifies for the 25m to kick in? Does he have to miss a certain amount of time?
If the Giants keep Jones, and they want to an avoid the injury clause at all costs, they are just going to not let him practice or play?
On March 15th, 12M of his 2025 salary is guaranteed. Presumably if he cannot pass a physical that date, 23M becomes guaranteed.
And yes, they would keep him from participating in all football activities.
Thanks
That clause had to come from Jones’ team, but the Giants agreed to it. Now they are stuck IF they plan to add is replacement this offseason ( captain obvious). They would not give him a chance to lose his job because of the clause they agreed to. Shelving a player because the team does not want to pay for a clause they agreed to might be smart financially, but it seems shady to me. Perhaps I am missing something which would not be unusual
.
What a potential mess this is. A mess financially if he can’t pass the physical next march because of an injury and a bad look if the player is sat all year to prevent the injury guarantee.
If you can't read a defense and you lack a quick release
last year's Giants O-line will render you totally ineffective. Wouldn't surprise me if Schoen goes first tier QB with pick #6 or, failing that, he trades his 2nd round selection together with other draft assets for a late round 1 selection and drafts a second tier QB.
that DJ has had 2 neck injuries, and ACL tear, any football skills aside, then ABSOLUTELY! Can’t risk another season ending injury to the starter without at least a quality backup or a draft pick.
they key point is Jones being able to pass a physical
IN March of 2025. If not, THEN the injury guarantee kicks in.
If he starts the season this year, gets hurt, but is able to pass the physical next March, no harm, no foul. It's a risk, no question.
Christian - Washington picked up RGIII's fifth-year option for 2016 in 2015 and then kept him inactive for all of 2015 after he had a concussion in a preseason game. I don't think they wanted to be on the hook for that option salary if he was injured again.
the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
RE: People need to stop talking about the injuries as
the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
Posted this on the Barkley thread - meant to post it here.
DJ has been an unprecedented disaster for this franchise from that very first catastrophic moment in April 2019 when Gettleman fell in love with a late second round talent with a backup NFL quarterback ceiling. Cutting him loose as soon as he clears a physical is nothing more than the blinding insight of the utter obvious. So zero credit to Schoen for coming to this conclusion. Zero.
The only thing that matters now is that he get a future elite quarterback on this roster in April. I am not interested in any of the debates. We have neither the resources nor the scouting expertise that Schoen has at his disposal. Is it Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix, Penix? I have no idea. But Schoen better damn well know. So if he gets the next Josh Allen, Joe Burrow or CJ Stroud, he will have proven his value. And this team will then finally pivot effectively after six long miserable years to begin the proper rebuilding effort we have all been waiting for.
But if he selects the next Zach Wilson, Trey Lance or Bryce Young, then a chimpanzee monkey throwing darts at a wall would be no worse than what Schoen will have done for this team. And this once glorious NFL franchise will be lost again for another decade.
RE: RE: People need to stop talking about the injuries as
the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
Go look at the DJ signing thread, people brought up the risks. What do you mean 1 injury? He was injured every year except last year.
AND he displayed poor awareness and decision making which makes him a constant injury risk. Again, read the DJ signing thread. Just because BBI is overrun with people who act like John Mara and make decisions with their hearts doesn't mean there aren't people capable of looking at the wider analysis better than the team or most people here.
RE: RE: RE: People need to stop talking about the injuries as
the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
Go look at the DJ signing thread, people brought up the risks. What do you mean 1 injury? He was injured every year except last year.
AND he displayed poor awareness and decision making which makes him a constant injury risk. Again, read the DJ signing thread. Just because BBI is overrun with people who act like John Mara and make decisions with their hearts doesn't mean there aren't people capable of looking at the wider analysis better than the team or most people here.
Again….i said serious injury…there was only 1
The extension was a mistake and it is time to move on
Had no major problem with the extension. At times ,e own games for the Giants - had some ball security issues but he was capable of making plays.
Hard to make a fair determination behind what has been the worst O-Line in the league. And, last year was the frist year he had a decent group of wrs.
Neck injuries and maybe his experiences have warped his development. At any rate, they have to bring in a QB this offseason - Taylor is not the answer and I do not see a FA coming from other teams.
My concern is that they do not have to give up too much to get into position to get the guy they want.
RE: RE: I don't believe this rumor on Giants done with Jones
for a lesson on "confirmation bias" and the definition of the word "desire" from somebody who is desperate to come up with any reason to dismiss the inevitability of his favorite player's impending departure.
and shady is a good description ChrisRick. Good luck with Daboll talking about team and competition and then having a healthy respected player not allowed to compete.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
Because of DJs contract, he will be with the NYG in 2024 whether they draft a QB with their 1st pick or not.
Seems now there are 4 QBs worth taking in the top 13 or so which ups the probability of landing one of them greatly because it seems there is no way the first 3 picks will be traded as all 3 teams will draft a QB, with 2 of them are absolutely in dire need of a QB. So, the problem is the NYG will get the worst of the four, though they might rate them in differently. I just don't want them to overdraft because they feel desperate, or trade a kings ransom to move up to #4.
for a lesson on "confirmation bias" and the definition of the word "desire" from somebody who is desperate to come up with any reason to dismiss the inevitability of his favorite player's impending departure.
and shady is a good description ChrisRick. Good luck with Daboll talking about team and competition and then having a healthy respected player not allowed to compete.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
You have no idea how the players feel about Daniel Jones as their QB. I’m sure they respect the person and the work ethic, sure. But I’m not betting the house that they will have a mutiny if he’s not the starting QB…
and shady is a good description ChrisRick. Good luck with Daboll talking about team and competition and then having a healthy respected player not allowed to compete.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
You have no idea how the players feel about Daniel Jones as their QB. I’m sure they respect the person and the work ethic, sure. But I’m not betting the house that they will have a mutiny if he’s not the starting QB…
With all due respect Shock, the bigger point is shelving a player that should at least have the opportunity to compete because of a clause in a contract the Giants agreed to.
Now, that may not happen. There has been enough talk about the Giants possibly putting Jones on the shelf once healthy to avoid potentially paying him 23 million in guaranteed money for 2025.
Jones didn’t earn the opportunity to compete to outweigh the risk of the guarantee kicking in.
The upside isn’t worth the risk
I disagree with your opinion. However, since I have explained my view clearly enough there is not a reason to re-state it.
Under the scenario that you’re concerned about, you’re assuming Jones is completely healthy and balls out in the pre season and clearly wins the job but is prevented from playing at all. This is where we differ. I think the more realistic scenario is Jones is still not 100% healthy when they get to camp and I don’t see it as outlandish to think that he gets outplayed by either a veteran they bring in or a rookie. Or both. You obviously have more faith in Jones than I do because I can see the transition to a new QB happening more organically than what you apparently do. You see shadiness. I see a QB that isn’t part of the future getting beat out for the job
RE: RE: RE: Nobody “should get the opportunity to compete”
Jones didn’t earn the opportunity to compete to outweigh the risk of the guarantee kicking in.
The upside isn’t worth the risk
I disagree with your opinion. However, since I have explained my view clearly enough there is not a reason to re-state it.
Under the scenario that you’re concerned about, you’re assuming Jones is completely healthy and balls out in the pre season and clearly wins the job but is prevented from playing at all. This is where we differ. I think the more realistic scenario is Jones is still not 100% healthy when they get to camp and I don’t see it as outlandish to think that he gets outplayed by either a veteran they bring in or a rookie. Or both. You obviously have more faith in Jones than I do because I can see the transition to a new QB happening more organically than what you apparently do. You see shadiness. I see a QB that isn’t part of the future getting beat out for the job
Thanks for your thought-out reply. I have very little faith in Jones as a quarterback. If Jones is cleared to participate in camp and assuming the giants have added a player that has a reasonable chance to be an upgrade, I feel Jones has the right to compete for the job. If the Giants are more concerned about the injury clause than providing Jones a chance to keep or compete for the qb1 position then they may not want him to even participate in a competition because of the chance of injury. To me, just speaking for myself, I don't think that is a good approach. I think it is a bad look for the organization from a player's perspective.
Now, Jones may not be physically ready to compete for the job. If the qb in place is playing well it at least gives the Giants a 'reason' to keep Jones on the bench and out of harms way. If the other qb is really struggling or is injured and Jones is ready, I feel they should play him because they agreed to that clause.
Good scenarios for the Giants:
Jones is not ready to play qb, the qb playing for Jones plays well and keeps Jones on the bench.
Jones does not perform well in camp/reg season, loses job while not getting hurt.
The Giants painted themselves in this corner (made their bed so to speak).
the Giants will let him play himself out of the job. You underestimate the effect of the historically lousy offensive line on his play. In 2018, the Giants had Manning, Barkley, in his sensational rookie season, and Beckham, who played in 12 games but still ran up over 1000 yards in receptions. But the Giants record was 5–11. Manning was sacked 47 times, the most in his career. The next most was 2013, when he was sacked 39 times, and the team finished with a record of 7–9, which included the meaningless last two games of the season against the 6–10 Redskins, and the 3–13 Lions. Manning threw a career high 27 interceptions that season.
In 2007 and 2011, Manning was sacked 27 and 28 times.
You don’t give Jones enough credit for taking the team to the playoffs and winning a game, despite being sacked 44 times. And in 2020, he was sacked 45 times. Some of those sacks might have been Jones’ fault, as in taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away, but realistically no more than a half dozen.
On the other hand, Jones has not impressed with his ability to hang in the pocket until the last second and get a pass off before he was creamed by a rusher. A lot of his success in 2022 was due to his running, and the presence of Barkley in the backfield beside him. Barkley was a running threat that the defense always had to give top priority to.
The truth about Jones lies somewhere between the fan club and the lynch mob.
decisions the Giants can make with an individual player.
If the rumors are true and the Giants are moving away from Jones soon, allowing him to start more games and putting the injury guarantee potentially in play would be an all-time moronic one.
RE: There actually needs to be a limitation on the number of stupid
decisions the Giants can make with an individual player.
If the rumors are true and the Giants are moving away from Jones soon, allowing him to start more games and putting the injury guarantee potentially in play would be an all-time moronic one.
This ^. Except in the case of the Giants, there are apparently no limitations.
It’s just that I’ve been a Giant fan since Gifford was playing flanker and catching passes from Tittle and I’ve learned to be patient.
I see his flaws. I wonder he’ll play if he doesn’t have Barkley next to him to enable that opinion run where he hands it to Barkley who goes left or keeps it himself and goes right. With a torn Achilles behind him he should stay in the pocket and I’ not sure if he can do that effectively.
It’s just that I’ve been a Giant fan since Gifford was playing flanker and catching passes from Tittle and I’ve learned to be patient.
I see his flaws. I wonder how he’ll play if he doesn’t have Barkley next to him to enable that opinion run where he hands it to Barkley who goes left or keeps it himself and goes right. With a torn Achilles behind him he should stay in the pocket and throw more and I’m not sure if he can do that effectively.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that. Link - ( New Window )
You are going to argue that you aren't a lunatic sometimes by pointing at this one thread? Come on Terps - you are on dozens, if not hundreds of threads, pounding away. Pointing to one thread doesn't prove anything. The mere fact that you can't accept this idea exemplifies just how deluded you are about your own behavior.
I am not going to argue this with you further in this format. You want to discuss it you know how to reach me.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that. Link - ( New Window )
You are going to argue that you aren't a lunatic sometimes by pointing at this one thread? Come on Terps - you are on dozens, if not hundreds of threads, pounding away. Pointing to one thread doesn't prove anything. The mere fact that you can't accept this idea exemplifies just how deluded you are about your own behavior.
I am not going to argue this with you further in this format. You want to discuss it you know how to reach me.
You argued with me, I made you look foolish, and you got angry. That's the long and the short of it.
It will be a big tell this year about Schoen whether he reverses course and fixes the mistake, or doubles down on it. I am hoping this is correct and the Jones era is behind us.
I'm ok with mistakes if they recognize and pivot from them.
Finally some hope.
This is all great news.
I think the writing is on the wall and we go QB here in the draft. Now the who is to be determined but I think we go in our guy.
It was a brutal spot for Schoen. A playoff win with the guy drafted #6 and ownership loves. He screwed up, but a very tough situation for a young, first time GM.
The fact that he doesn't appear to be doubling down is encouraging and a potentially very strong lesson learned going forward.
They will draft someone and will see how things go. No mystery!
They will draft someone and will see how things go. No mystery!
Let's see how another team (Tampa) handles a similar situation with Baker Mayfield this offseason.
He played behind a historically bad OL while facing some tough D’s….but that’s life. He was God awful last year.
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How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
I'm ok with mistakes if they recognize and pivot from them.
Finally some hope.
Bingo. The 49ers gave up 3 first round picks to draft Trey Lance, kept building the team around him then had the stones to move on pretty quickly when it was clear he wasn’t the guy. Giants need that kind of decisiveness
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How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
I'm ok with mistakes if they recognize and pivot from them.
Finally some hope.
Let's see how another team (Tampa) handles a similar situation with Baker Mayfield this offseason.
Again, once again, that is NOT what happened. So many of you totally miss the boat on what happened. The biggest mistake was (and this may have been a Mara influence issue) was they were bound and determined to keep BARKLEY. That meant either they get a deal done with him and Franchise Jones (probably the preferred way) or take the lesser risk long term (higher numbers in total contract but with less guarantees etc) and sign Jones to franchise Barkley..
Had they just let Barkley go and franchised Jones this would be a whole different situation.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
Jones probably shook all confidence they had regarding his trajectory.
I don't think Jones and his agents will ever regret asking for that money, because they got it, but I do wonder if he would've played looser and more relaxed if he got something exactly like the Carr or Geno contracts. That $40 million put a target on his back and incentized Schoen to give himself an early out.
He probably plays next year because of the contract assuming he's healthy but after that they do have to start to plan for a new QB.
Just common sense...
Gee, riveting observation
It's very likely he goes to Washington.
Buyers remorse is perfectly fine if you do something about it. Works for me.
Hard indeed!!!!
Like you hard on hate for Jones, from day 1....
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How he recovers and changes course will determine if he and Daboll stick around for the long haul
I'm ok with mistakes if they recognize and pivot from them.
Finally some hope.
Spot on
This is all great news.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suspect we draft a rookie and that rookie is going to play and play early. The Giants could let Jones start the season off and then replace him or just let him backup the rookie and hope someone desperately needs a QB like what we saw with multiple teams this year.
They have to decide what they think of Jones. If they are getting a QB at #6, you are done with Jones. If that is the case, you staple him to the bench so you don't risk the cap hit of the injury guarantee for 2025.
If you still "believe" in Jones, you pick a rookie in the second/third and you play Jones the minute he is healthy.
What they can't do is walk a middle line of getting a QB at #6, and sitting him while Jones runs around losing games while everyone keeps their fingers crossed he doesn't get hurt.
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"Two words that were hard at the Combine multiple times: 'buyer's remorse'."
Hard indeed!!!!
Like you hard on hate for Jones, from day 1....
Ha - I guess Swype tapped into my brain.
I didn't dislike Jones from day 1, but by the end of 2019 you could see problems with him. If you didn't see them it's because you didn't want to.
.... or all 3?
.... or all 3?
What?
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"Two words that were hard at the Combine multiple times: 'buyer's remorse'."
Hard indeed!!!!
Like you hard on hate for Jones, from day 1....
Say what you want about a poster and a spelling mistake but Jones was a mistake from the start…. The guy who fell “in full bloom love” with him and over-drafted him didn’t last that much longer. Bad OL’s, injuries, missed open receivers and an undeserved contract since are all water under the bridge at this point. Jones is easy to like as a person but his athletic abilities are what they are and they just aren’t enough.
The link below was posted in some other Jones thread earlier this week and probably deserves its own thread for its prescience…. Whether anyone hated him from day 1 or not, and there were plenty of reasons to if you did, it is finally time to move on from him.
Todd McShay right about DJ 12 hours after he was drafted and today. - ( New Window )
.... or all 3?
Probably you with that Daniel Jones bobble head you spent your hard earned money on. Maybe take it down to the pawn shop before word gets out?
.... or all 3?
Schoen with Jones.
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Schoen with Jones, Schoen with Daboll or Mara with Schoen?
.... or all 3?
What?
He’s one of Jones’ biggest supporters. He’s just having a moment…
But I agree that Schoen can recover if he finds us our next franchise QB. My concern is that in a desperate desire to do so he will overpay in terms of draft capital by moving up to draft a QB.
Jones belongs in the league, just not as a full-time starter. He's a high-end backup or a "bridge" starter for a year or two for a team that needs some time to try and find a franchise QB. Like Tyrod Taylor or Gardner Minshew. Nothing wrong with that.
Agreed; no chance that Schoen says it *out loud.* But... this is the type of thing you might be able to glean from second-hand reporting from the meetings the Giants have had with QBs and receivers at the combine.
Then again, this is smokescreen season, so it's really hard to know how true it is. But I'm sure that at a bare minimum the Giants' process with the QBs is extremely serious.
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I'll believe it when I see it.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
I just choked on my cough drop. That was very funny...
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Eisen says they have buyers remorse.
Buyers remorse is perfectly fine if you do something about it. Works for me.
Schoen needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to keep the job.
You literally could not find worse playing conditions than he had here, his entire career. Worst combination of coaching/OL/skill players in the NFL since 2019.
Again that’s life. But Mara’s quote about mismanaging a young QB rings true.
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but there is no way on Earth Schoen says something like that out loud....or in confidence.
Agreed; no chance that Schoen says it *out loud.* But... this is the type of thing you might be able to glean from second-hand reporting from the meetings the Giants have had with QBs and receivers at the combine.
Then again, this is smokescreen season, so it's really hard to know how true it is. But I'm sure that at a bare minimum the Giants' process with the QBs is extremely serious.
The smokescreen would be the opposite (and the stance they’ve taken publicly): that DJ is the starter, he’s ahead of schedule and on track for the start of the season.
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Eisen says Jayden Daniels is QB2 behind Caleb.
It's very likely he goes to Washington.
Kingsbury's offense is more suited to Jayden Daniels than Maye so pretty sure that's who they are doing their homework on.
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In comment 16416521 Professor Falken said:
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Eisen says Jayden Daniels is QB2 behind Caleb.
It's very likely he goes to Washington.
Kingsbury's offense is more suited to Jayden Daniels than Maye so pretty sure that's who they are doing their homework on.
How awkward would it be for Howell to lose his job to Maye.
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In comment 16416474 Sean said:
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Eisen says they have buyers remorse.
Buyers remorse is perfectly fine if you do something about it. Works for me.
It's better if you don't make the mistake in the first place, especially if the mistake was readily apparent off the hop. He gets no credit for coming out of a coma a year later and realizing he fucked up.
Schoen needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to keep the job.
Ok. Seems like many disagree with you on that and not a single person has argued Schoen doesn’t need to do better.
The key is not to beat him up over it but look forward and see how he learns.
And regarding the Giants giving away their strategy....my hunch is that this is not exactly earth-shattering news and that few people in the know, if anyone, are surprised.
Not sure this deserves a sticky as it is clear rumor and clearly stated as such by Rich Eisen, but boy does this bring hope to the Giants if true.
Yep, I just don't see it as a colossal failure. I suspect Schoen and Daboll went in and said "OK, what's the worst that can happen if Jones doesn't progress or gets hurt again? $22m in dead money in 2025? We can live with that" and made the deal, knowing that this was a possibility.
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I'll believe it when I see it.
Uh oh. Do I see an emergency meeting for the DJFC coming up asap? Time to regroup and figure out the next course of action. The future of the club is in peril right now
LOL. I may not even follow the Giants if they pick a QB in the draft. Not.
The cap hit of cutting him is the same as Dexters if I recall correctly
I think the writing is on the wall and we go QB here in the draft. Now the who is to be determined but I think we go in our guy.
jvm, it's also the "how" to be determined. Eisen's top 5 rumors #4 was that JD is QB #2 and top rumor #1 is that Bears go with CW. It is lying season, but it's hard to see who Schoen can unseat from a dyed-in-the-wool QB pick.
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And not just for the obvious reasons. You hate seeing it not work for a guy who says and does all the right things. I wish him well and hope he lands in a solid spot.
Tough shit. Don't feel the least bit sorry for him. It's a tough profession. For looking like a qb from central casting, Daniel Jones is walking out with a tens of millions of dollars despite being a lousy qb. He will never need to work again. Buh-bye
Laying his balls on the table and asking for $50 million, then 'settling' for $40 million in a "I'm clearly better than Carr and Geno" contract, then going out and playing
like trash and then trying to be a wallflower while the team was going through hell ruined much sympathy I'll have for him.
This is going to become a huge issue on the decision front as DJ gets closer and closer to sufficiently recovered.
But this is just a story for some March views.
It's just amusing seeing the backtracking from those who were convinced that the Giants were dead set on keeping Jones until the apocalypse (both those who supported and loathed such a decision).
of Rich Eisen before I press the remote button.
His egotism is just insufferable.
BTW, the Giants may not be able to manage either of those things, in which case they're NOT done with him.
Sure, it could be the JS and BD don't view Jones as the long term answer, but even if so, this may not be the year they can do anything about it.
And Jones is on the books next year regardless, and probably starting even if they draft a QB.
Another two months of this BS will be torture.
In comment 16416655 ThomasG said:
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Assuming they draft a qb they should cut him as soon as he can pass a physical . There is zero upside to keeping him
This is going to become a huge issue on the decision front as DJ gets closer and closer to sufficiently recovered.
How can there not be? We apparently don’t have anyone on the payroll who knows what an offensive lineman looks like.
Get us back to the Super Bowl.
Also, DJ like it plays week 1. None of this chatter means fuck all but I presume we’re feeling better since the hysterics from some talkies implying that nyg still believed in jones? Good. Don’t get too high or low.
Not sure this deserves a sticky as it is clear rumor and clearly stated as such by Rich Eisen, but boy does this bring hope to the Giants if true.
So did I. This is complete speculation but it doesn’t take a savant to believe that the giants want to upgrade the qb position. Still, i wouldn’t get too high or ok with any of these takes. Actions from nyg is what matters not this shit.
But this is just a story for some March views.
I'm not sure you were yelled at. People may have just thought it was a silly thing to say. Not a lot of engaging conversations start by saying someone cries in front of his wife or is a cuck.
They paid Eli just to bench him for Jones after 2 games. DJ may start the year but I can see a similar scenario playing out
If McCarthy or whoever is a disaster, you can be in prime position to draft QB in 2026 with Jones completely off the books. If McCarthy hits, even better. Have to take a swing to upgrade QB.
Probably you with that Daniel Jones bobble head you spent your hard earned money on. Maybe take it down to the pawn shop before word gets out?
That being said, I think it's a bullshit. It's telephone tag. People are extrapolating on top of extrapolating and claiming it as new information. In a few days we'll be hearing "rumors" that the Giants have hired a hitman to whack Jones with instructions to make it look like a suicide (nullifying his guaranteed money).
Jones getting out of bed is an injury risk.
You can afford to carry Jones and the new draft pick this year. Then, you let Jones go after this season.
Dont make it more complicated than it needs to be.
We’ll know soon enough
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
Jones had plenty of chances this season & was terrible for most of it. And Tyrod outplayed him after Jones got hurt. The excuses for Jones need to end.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
They will draft someone and will see how things go. No mystery!
"The funny thing about the media is that nobody trusts the media but everyone believes what they say."--Pat Condell
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Probably you with that Daniel Jones bobble head you spent your hard earned money on. Maybe take it down to the pawn shop before word gets out?
I have one. I think I paid $30 for it. Funny thing is some guy is trying to sell it for $499.99 (or best offer haha) on ebay!
That being said, I think it's a bullshit. It's telephone tag. People are extrapolating on top of extrapolating and claiming it as new information. In a few days we'll be hearing "rumors" that the Giants have hired a hitman to whack Jones with instructions to make it look like a suicide (nullifying his guaranteed money).
You are missing a pretty obvious chain of logic between the whispers that the building was split, then the letter now the obvious about face from the building as a whole. Mara got embarrassed and shifted gears, not the first time in fact this seems to be exactly how he always operates.
Not sure what is confusing to you here.
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Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
They had plenty of tape on him and had a year of working with him and gave him that contract. They could have easily moved on last year. They signed off on keeping him. It's not a good look, especially at the QB position.
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Anyone that signed off on his contract should go with him.
Cutting bait on a guy you give that contract to after basically 5 games played without his 2 best offensive players healthy against a tough schedule looks like someone not knowing what they are doing.
I'd rather the team admit they made the mistake than double down on it.
I think his point is, are 5 games with disastrous play conditions really enough to completely reverse course? It seems ridiculous no matter how bad he was. The team imploded, nothing worked. It was a spectacular disaster all around.
"Account Suspended" as of yesterday. Something happened in his last topic 🤷♂️
That’s plenty of enough data.
@SharpFootball
top single-year dead cap hits in NFL history
$49,600,000- Russell Wilson 👀
$40,525,000 - Matt Ryan
$40,313,570 - Aaron Rodgers
$35,400,000 - Russell Wilson 👀
$35,104,000 - Tom Brady
$33,820,611 - Carson Wentz
$26,000,000 - Russell Wilson 👀
Russell Wilson is 3 of top 7 😂😂
You are missing a pretty obvious chain of logic between the whispers that the building was split, then the letter now the obvious about face from the building as a whole. Mara got embarrassed and shifted gears, not the first time in fact this seems to be exactly how he always operates.
Not sure what is confusing to you here.
I have a vision of my own on what the Giants should do and it fits in with everything they're doing and saying, but doesn't require the belief that Schoen and Daboll are incompetent yes men and Mara is a meddling boob who doesn't know football. You don't have to think Jones sucks in order to be heavily into the QB prospects this year. It's a QB-rich draft, the Giants have the 6th overall pick and two early 2nd round picks, and Jones is coming off two serious injuries in one year on top of his previous history of injuries. This is their best shot at a good young QB prospect that they can develop, but that doesn't automatically make Jones the forgotten man. Assuming no setbacks, he'll start the season. And then it's up to him. And the rumor mill won't have a say.
Not sure what is confusing to you here.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Every giants rookie QB record whooptie doo.
Why did they have design plays to not turn the ball over Ryan?
Anything to do with his 12 interceptions and 19 fumbles?
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“3 years of bad play.”
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
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In comment 16416888 ryanmkeane said:
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“3 years of bad play.”
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
A moderator was threatening to kick me out in 2022 for saying what you all are saying now. Funny how that works.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Why is that ironic? That’s exactly why I am saying I only want Williams or Maye in this draft and nobody else.
5: Rivers contacted teams to play ✅
4: Bears close to trading top pick ✅
3: Not pretty between Lamar & BAL ✅
2: GB hopes Rodgers doesn’t want to return ✅
1: Brady might not be done ❌
Amen to this. Revisiting old threads is fun from time to time, but now it’s solely for the purposes of “gotcha” moments that add nothing to the conversation.
Yup
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You have an insane narrative that there is any reason to keep Jones that you mouth off constantly and you have the balls to tell someone else THEY are biased? Jesus.
it's confirmation bias, we're all guilty of it.
Some more than others... But sure let's just wrap anyone and everyone into the idea that they have biases. The problem isn't the bias part with you the problem is the actual opinion is a bad one
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Garrett was apparently the one that pounded the table for the Giants to draft Andrew Thomas. So he's been the only guy in the room in the last decade that could identify a good lineman.
Some fans could learn a lot from this. Again, if true, I'm relieved. Anyone with two functioning eyes could see that our "franchise" QB was thoroughly outplayed by a journeyman veteran and an undrafted FA who got zero meaningful reps in the abbreviated preseason.
Jones was outplayed by Taylor?
Taylor cost The Giants two games this year.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Says the guy who never admits when he's wrong.
Hint - it's been a LOT. But you disappear - and resurface - when it's convenient for you...
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The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Says the guy who never admits when he's wrong.
Hint - it's been a LOT. But you disappear - and resurface - when it's convenient for you...
I've admitted to being wrong about plenty. I happily admit now I may be wrong about the Giants' willingness to move on from Jones and Barkley.
I'm sure you've got a record of what I've been wrong about; it matters a lot to you.
On the flip side I can't remember anything about anything you've ever posted. It just seems to be whining about other posters. You're one of a few on that score.
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In comment 16416894 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16416888 ryanmkeane said:
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“3 years of bad play.”
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
Jones fucking stinks. Enough already.
Lol. Looking forward to your next departure from the board and then magical return.
A moderator was threatening to kick me out in 2022 for saying what you all are saying now. Funny how that works.
The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
But I agree that Schoen can recover if he finds us our next franchise QB. My concern is that in a desperate desire to do so he will overpay in terms of draft capital by moving up to draft a QB.
Jones belongs in the league, just not as a full-time starter. He's a high-end backup or a "bridge" starter for a year or two for a team that needs some time to try and find a franchise QB. Like Tyrod Taylor or Gardner Minshew. Nothing wrong with that.
The contract isn't disastrous. It isn't a big stain on Schoen's record. The panic narrative some of you have on BBI sometimes is quite a thing.
If you actually go back and read the threads at the time the contract was signed, it was not, "My God, how can Schoen be so dumb to give Jones this contract." There was a lot of over all broad support as many felt Jones had really moved up a notch.
You can criticise the decision, but to portray it as idiocy, is itself idiotic. I'm just glad you're not our GM.
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
But barkley overvalued himself, and here we are.
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
But barkley overvalued himself, and here we are.
If he makes more as a FA than he would have if he accepted the Giants offer, is he still over valuing himself?
He would be getting paid still.
Jones would have been the one tagged and not an issue this year
But barkley overvalued himself, and here we are.
It was plain for Schoen to see where usable Cap was at most risk and which player justified how much of that risk at that juncture.
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
Well he set every Giants rookie QB record. He then had Joe Judge and Jason Garrett in years 2 and 3, a head coach that would rather punt than score a touchdown and a OC that literally was designing plays to not turn the ball over.
So since Jones has been here, we’ve had
1. One coach decide it’s better to punt than ask too much of the QB
2. One coach “literally designing plays to not turn the ball over”
3. The current coach putting training wheels on his otherwise aggressive offense
And your conclusion after knowing this is to blame all three coaches for holding Jones back? Haha, you simply cannot make this shit up
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In comment 16416906 Go Terps said:
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The guys that actually keep receipts here are the ones that never say anything relevant.
Says the guy who never admits when he's wrong.
Hint - it's been a LOT. But you disappear - and resurface - when it's convenient for you...
I've admitted to being wrong about plenty. I happily admit now I may be wrong about the Giants' willingness to move on from Jones and Barkley.
I'm sure you've got a record of what I've been wrong about; it matters a lot to you.
On the flip side I can't remember anything about anything you've ever posted. It just seems to be whining about other posters. You're one of a few on that score.
Your problem is that you say things as if they are fact. You left the message board for an entire year including the playoff run, and then when Jones played poorly early on in 2023 you magically returned and started again with the "Daniel Jones sucks" stuff over and over again.
Don't really care what your opinion is. The fact that you are just such a snake about it is the most upsetting thing.
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It was 5 games pluse 12 games missed due to injury, which counts in the evaluation.
Regardless, let's take a step back here: The Jones contract is basically a slightly elevated version of the (original) Carr and Geno contracts, with a little bit more AAV and one extra year tossed in that is borderline fake.
If either Carr or Geno had the same season that Jones did, and the Saints or Seahawks were picking sixth. would there even be a second-thought if rumors were being leaked that either team were looking to make an aggressive move to get the top-3 QBs or stand pat and take McCarthy at 6?
Carr and Geno are both better than Jones. And cheaper. And those teams would probably be looking for a QB, yes.
True, and just to clarify, I agree fundamentally that the Saints and Seahawks would be looking to move on if Carr and Geno had the same year as Jones just did. Very few fans or league pundits would even criticize them for this direction. For the Giants, however, it's depicted as this horrendous about-face because few people believed Jones deserved $40 million in the first place and therefore the Giants must endure some kind of catholic penance for several years for making a wrong decision.
It is March 2024.
It is March 2024.
How did Barkley look in 2022?
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and Saquon's 2018 season in full support of the idea of keeping them around longer.
It is March 2024.
How did Barkley look in 2022?
Like someone worth trading before he has no market value.
Same with 2023 only moreso.
You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that.
Link - ( New Window )
Do any of you remember young Barkley who tried out running his blocking on every play? Getting tackled for a 5-8 yard loss by bouncing runs outside too often? Running into the back on his offensive linemen? Trying to hit a homerun on every run?
To me he looks like he has taken to coaching and is trying to be a more patient NFL runner. Has he lost a step? Maybe a little but I think it is more than that.
I understand the biggest issue with Saquon is the price tag and not the player. I agree we can't tag him at $12 Million....too expensive! But a reasonable deal like 2 years $20 mill with $10 mill guaranteed is doable.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnf-PFyFL7c - ( New Window )
Except this isn't what Schoen said. He said the *expectation* is that Jones would be the starter. Just like the *expectation* that Wink would return as DC.
Expectations change when situations change.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
They will draft someone and will see how things go. No mystery!
THIS!
Eisen says they may have to play him next year.
What if Jones picks up from his last good year?
Are you still "done with him"?
Either way Jones ends up playing this year, they should still consider getting the best QB available to them in the draft.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
No it doesn’t. Done could easily mean they want to upgrade and are going to cut him once it becomes more economically feasible
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At the end of the day, all that matters is how he performs. Everything else is just noise.
They will draft someone and will see how things go. No mystery!
THIS!
Eisen says they may have to play him next year.
What if Jones picks up from his last good year?
Are you still "done with him"?
Either way Jones ends up playing this year, they should still consider getting the best QB available to them in the draft.
His last good year was when, exactly? Eighth grade?
2022 was adequate. It wasn't "good."
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnf-PFyFL7c - ( New Window )
Schoen also said that he expected Wink back as DC in 2024.
But by all means, let's take a press conference as gospel.
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the Giants "are done with Jones."
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
Maybe. I still don't think anyone worth the energy leaked this to Eisen. I guess it could have happened why not, but when in doubt, depending on the context or circumstances I just assume the sports press is making shit up as they go. It has served me well.
I don't see the competition as being obtained in a draft trade up. Check out his combine press conference. He talks about building a winning team around Jones. That would not entail giving up draft picks to select the top quarterback. If one of the top three fall to six they may take them. Otherwise I see a wide receiver selected. The competition may be someone like Rattler in round 3 or 4.
Here is his press conference. You can skip to about 2:40
I would like if this is the approach they take. Give me Rome Odunze and Rattler and see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnf-PFyFL7c - ( New Window )
Yes, let’s believe everything a GM says prior to the draft. After the draft, you may be able to say you were right, but right now, Schoen’s words mean nothing.
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the Giants "are done with Jones."
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Doesn't have to mean cutting or trading.
With a burdensome injury guarantee hanging over their heads, it could be as simple as Jones sees as few snaps as possible (ideally zero, in this particular scenario) so that there is no risk of the 2025 injury guarantee triggering in the process of replacing DJ.
Yep. I’m also not sure why he assumes that if Eisen heard these things it must have only come from the Giants. It’s been widely reported that Schoen had been gauging trade up options so it’s not difficult to believe that these leaks could have come from other organizations that the Giants had reached out to
Some of you hear that we won't be drafting a QB replacement. And this makes sense to you despite the fact that the QB that you would want to be the starter is coming off a horrible season where he was outplayed by backups and got injured (again).
But after the owner expresses this idiotic sentiment in an even dumber way "giving up" sounds like more what you say about your child struggling in school not a $40M guy at your linchpin position in a multi-billion dollar organization. He gets properly dressed down for these views the team is clearly embarrassed clown show style. Now shortly after a well connected source NFL source is saying that they will move on from this overpaid QB that has only ever shown he can be serviceable in an dumbed down offense.
This 2nd story is the story that doesn't add up? Seriously?
the cap ramifications would be no different than if he stayed here over that period of time but they would take away the risk of any more gtd$ triggering by injury.
i suspect they would want to wait until after the draft to ensure they get a player they want since jones is a relatively "free" backup plan.
id be surprised if they were done with him in the way the broncos are done with wilson, but even if they are functionally im not sure they could execute the move this early because of the injury.
Sweetie, couples actually do that all the time. They put on a brave face and carry out the facade until the kids are off to college.
In this case, the Giants are going to put on a brave face and wait until they can get out from underneath the DJ albatross.
Just remember, the stages of grief may not be sequential and can often repeat themselves along the way. It's a process, you just have to let it happen. You'll be ok.
They are not done till he’s cut or they find a replacement. Maybe it’s in the draft but if they don’t find a guy in the draft they are not done. Like him or hate him he’s most likely the starter this year.
Schoen saw the guy for a year and gave him the contract. It’s 100% on him. Add it to the list of failures. The failures are much higher than the successes and I’m not sure he is a good talent evaluator. Glowinski, Jones, Campbell & Barkley. I put Barkley on the list for 2 reasons he gave him more than the franchise tag when he didn’t have to and he should have traded Barkley. Evan Neal 2 years in is a bust. You can miss on a #7 pick. There were other players available that have played at a top level so this is a big miss. 1/2 his contract is a waste.
Jones was outplayed by Taylor?
Taylor cost The Giants two games this year.
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I believe Schoen when he said in his press conference two days ago that Jones is the starting quarterback.
Except this isn't what Schoen said. He said the *expectation* is that Jones would be the starter. Just like the *expectation* that Wink would return as DC.
Expectations change when situations change.
The press conf I linked I do not hear expectation. He just says he is the starrting quarterback. As far as Wink that was more a mutual decision. I don't believe Daniel wants to leave.
Denver is cutting Wilson because - as bad as his contract is - it gets even worse if they allow him to remain on the roster.
The Giants are not facing the same scenario with Jones. They just need to wait it out and let him pass a physical and then decide whether to shelf him for the year or release him after June 1st.
But it is not the same as the Denver/Wilson situation because there is an actual trigger to push Denver to act now in that case, whereas the Giants can't do anything until Jones can pass a physical anyway.
Cutting him now only makes sense if you go out and replace him with a guy like Russel Wilson or some other cheap to sign VET. And even then, are we sure Wilson is an upgrade at this point?
And even if the Giants were done with Jones, any front office figure with a say in things isn't leaking this to Eisen. It's just now how the Giants roll.
Eisen is pretty good but I think he's pulling this out of his ass. Wanting to upgrade over Jones isn't quite the same as being done. Done means cutting or trading him now. I just don't see it.
Eisen did add the qualifier “even if they have to play him this season”. I certainly get questioning reports like these, but Eisen has not been the type to wallow in rumors. It likely didn’t come from a Giant FO type directly to Eisen, but the NFL personnel group is a small industry. Someone in the Giant FO makes a reference to a friend in another FO, who tells that to another, before you know it, everyone is saying it.
We won’t know until we know, but as someone pointed out above, Eisen’s track record is pretty solid.
The press conf I linked I do not hear expectation. He just says he is the starrting quarterback. As far as Wink that was more a mutual decision. I don't believe Daniel wants to leave.
The link below was from the same day. Relevant portion is around the 14:30 mark. He says they have faith in Jones and the *expectation* is that he will be the starting QB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhazS4TFC0 - ( New Window )
Name one other team that has done what Denver did. Just one. Denver is the team acting ahistorically, not the Giants for keeping a guy with a huge cap hit on the roster for another year.
Jones competes to play. Schoen attempts to trade him (unlikely) or he cuts him.
Jones competes to play. Schoen attempts to trade him (unlikely) or he cuts him.
Jones has a $25M injury guarantee for 2025.
Extremely dumb for any Giants fan to not know that.
Jones was outplayed by Taylor?
Taylor cost The Giants two games this year.
I don't want that guy back, a 13 year veteran making decisions like he is a rookie out there. No thank you.
Jones competes to play. Schoen attempts to trade him (unlikely) or he cuts him.
Unless by some small chance they miss out on any viable QB option, he’s not playing for the giants in 2024.
A couple of questions:
What injury(s) severity qualifies for the 25m to kick in? Does he have to miss a certain amount of time?
If the Giants keep Jones, and they want to an avoid the injury clause at all costs, they are just going to not let him practice or play?
The right answer if they acquire his replacement is to shelve Jones and hold out hope a suitor materializes.
If Jones is open to restructuring the injury guarantee out, and the Giants absorb nearly all of the money, there will be a market for him.
A couple of questions:
What injury(s) severity qualifies for the 25m to kick in? Does he have to miss a certain amount of time?
If the Giants keep Jones, and they want to an avoid the injury clause at all costs, they are just going to not let him practice or play?
On March 15th, 12M of his 2025 salary is guaranteed. Presumably if he cannot pass a physical that date, 23M becomes guaranteed.
And yes, they would keep him from participating in all football activities.
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Pardon my ignorance regarding Jones injury clause for the 24 season.
A couple of questions:
What injury(s) severity qualifies for the 25m to kick in? Does he have to miss a certain amount of time?
If the Giants keep Jones, and they want to an avoid the injury clause at all costs, they are just going to not let him practice or play?
On March 15th, 12M of his 2025 salary is guaranteed. Presumably if he cannot pass a physical that date, 23M becomes guaranteed.
And yes, they would keep him from participating in all football activities.
Thanks
That clause had to come from Jones’ team, but the Giants agreed to it. Now they are stuck IF they plan to add is replacement this offseason ( captain obvious). They would not give him a chance to lose his job because of the clause they agreed to. Shelving a player because the team does not want to pay for a clause they agreed to might be smart financially, but it seems shady to me. Perhaps I am missing something which would not be unusual
.
Holding a player out all year would be unprecedented.
If he starts the season this year, gets hurt, but is able to pass the physical next March, no harm, no foul. It's a risk, no question.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
DJ has been an unprecedented disaster for this franchise from that very first catastrophic moment in April 2019 when Gettleman fell in love with a late second round talent with a backup NFL quarterback ceiling. Cutting him loose as soon as he clears a physical is nothing more than the blinding insight of the utter obvious. So zero credit to Schoen for coming to this conclusion. Zero.
The only thing that matters now is that he get a future elite quarterback on this roster in April. I am not interested in any of the debates. We have neither the resources nor the scouting expertise that Schoen has at his disposal. Is it Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Nix, Penix? I have no idea. But Schoen better damn well know. So if he gets the next Josh Allen, Joe Burrow or CJ Stroud, he will have proven his value. And this team will then finally pivot effectively after six long miserable years to begin the proper rebuilding effort we have all been waiting for.
But if he selects the next Zach Wilson, Trey Lance or Bryce Young, then a chimpanzee monkey throwing darts at a wall would be no worse than what Schoen will have done for this team. And this once glorious NFL franchise will be lost again for another decade.
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the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
Go look at the DJ signing thread, people brought up the risks. What do you mean 1 injury? He was injured every year except last year.
AND he displayed poor awareness and decision making which makes him a constant injury risk. Again, read the DJ signing thread. Just because BBI is overrun with people who act like John Mara and make decisions with their hearts doesn't mean there aren't people capable of looking at the wider analysis better than the team or most people here.
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In comment 16417904 prematurely_blue said:
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the reason Jones needs to be replaced the injuries are very clearly reasons he shouldn't have been paid absolutely.
But they aren't the reason he needs to be off this team. This team was very clearly better off with him injured, there is nothing more annoying than people blathering on about him needing to be replaced because of the injuries. He needs to be replaced because he is a bad QB. Full stop.
He had one serious injury before he signed the contract….the neck in 2021
Not sure why that would be an issue pre contract….but it sure is now
Go look at the DJ signing thread, people brought up the risks. What do you mean 1 injury? He was injured every year except last year.
AND he displayed poor awareness and decision making which makes him a constant injury risk. Again, read the DJ signing thread. Just because BBI is overrun with people who act like John Mara and make decisions with their hearts doesn't mean there aren't people capable of looking at the wider analysis better than the team or most people here.
Again….i said serious injury…there was only 1
The extension was a mistake and it is time to move on
Hard to make a fair determination behind what has been the worst O-Line in the league. And, last year was the frist year he had a decent group of wrs.
Neck injuries and maybe his experiences have warped his development. At any rate, they have to bring in a QB this offseason - Taylor is not the answer and I do not see a FA coming from other teams.
My concern is that they do not have to give up too much to get into position to get the guy they want.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
Seems now there are 4 QBs worth taking in the top 13 or so which ups the probability of landing one of them greatly because it seems there is no way the first 3 picks will be traded as all 3 teams will draft a QB, with 2 of them are absolutely in dire need of a QB. So, the problem is the NYG will get the worst of the four, though they might rate them in differently. I just don't want them to overdraft because they feel desperate, or trade a kings ransom to move up to #4.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
You have no idea how the players feel about Daniel Jones as their QB. I’m sure they respect the person and the work ethic, sure. But I’m not betting the house that they will have a mutiny if he’s not the starting QB…
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and shady is a good description ChrisRick. Good luck with Daboll talking about team and competition and then having a healthy respected player not allowed to compete.
No credible leader is going to be on board with that imv.
You have no idea how the players feel about Daniel Jones as their QB. I’m sure they respect the person and the work ethic, sure. But I’m not betting the house that they will have a mutiny if he’s not the starting QB…
With all due respect Shock, the bigger point is shelving a player that should at least have the opportunity to compete because of a clause in a contract the Giants agreed to.
Now, that may not happen. There has been enough talk about the Giants possibly putting Jones on the shelf once healthy to avoid potentially paying him 23 million in guaranteed money for 2025.
The upside isn’t worth the risk
The upside isn’t worth the risk
I disagree with your opinion. However, since I have explained my view clearly enough there is not a reason to re-state it.
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Jones didn’t earn the opportunity to compete to outweigh the risk of the guarantee kicking in.
The upside isn’t worth the risk
I disagree with your opinion. However, since I have explained my view clearly enough there is not a reason to re-state it.
Under the scenario that you’re concerned about, you’re assuming Jones is completely healthy and balls out in the pre season and clearly wins the job but is prevented from playing at all. This is where we differ. I think the more realistic scenario is Jones is still not 100% healthy when they get to camp and I don’t see it as outlandish to think that he gets outplayed by either a veteran they bring in or a rookie. Or both. You obviously have more faith in Jones than I do because I can see the transition to a new QB happening more organically than what you apparently do. You see shadiness. I see a QB that isn’t part of the future getting beat out for the job
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In comment 16418601 ajr2456 said:
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Jones didn’t earn the opportunity to compete to outweigh the risk of the guarantee kicking in.
The upside isn’t worth the risk
I disagree with your opinion. However, since I have explained my view clearly enough there is not a reason to re-state it.
Under the scenario that you’re concerned about, you’re assuming Jones is completely healthy and balls out in the pre season and clearly wins the job but is prevented from playing at all. This is where we differ. I think the more realistic scenario is Jones is still not 100% healthy when they get to camp and I don’t see it as outlandish to think that he gets outplayed by either a veteran they bring in or a rookie. Or both. You obviously have more faith in Jones than I do because I can see the transition to a new QB happening more organically than what you apparently do. You see shadiness. I see a QB that isn’t part of the future getting beat out for the job
Thanks for your thought-out reply. I have very little faith in Jones as a quarterback. If Jones is cleared to participate in camp and assuming the giants have added a player that has a reasonable chance to be an upgrade, I feel Jones has the right to compete for the job. If the Giants are more concerned about the injury clause than providing Jones a chance to keep or compete for the qb1 position then they may not want him to even participate in a competition because of the chance of injury. To me, just speaking for myself, I don't think that is a good approach. I think it is a bad look for the organization from a player's perspective.
Now, Jones may not be physically ready to compete for the job. If the qb in place is playing well it at least gives the Giants a 'reason' to keep Jones on the bench and out of harms way. If the other qb is really struggling or is injured and Jones is ready, I feel they should play him because they agreed to that clause.
Good scenarios for the Giants:
Jones is not ready to play qb, the qb playing for Jones plays well and keeps Jones on the bench.
Jones does not perform well in camp/reg season, loses job while not getting hurt.
The Giants painted themselves in this corner (made their bed so to speak).
In 2007 and 2011, Manning was sacked 27 and 28 times.
You don’t give Jones enough credit for taking the team to the playoffs and winning a game, despite being sacked 44 times. And in 2020, he was sacked 45 times. Some of those sacks might have been Jones’ fault, as in taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away, but realistically no more than a half dozen.
On the other hand, Jones has not impressed with his ability to hang in the pocket until the last second and get a pass off before he was creamed by a rusher. A lot of his success in 2022 was due to his running, and the presence of Barkley in the backfield beside him. Barkley was a running threat that the defense always had to give top priority to.
The truth about Jones lies somewhere between the fan club and the lynch mob.
In 2007 and 2011, Manning was sacked 27 and 28 times.
Eli only being sacked 28 times in 2011 says more about Eli than it does about his protection.
If the rumors are true and the Giants are moving away from Jones soon, allowing him to start more games and putting the injury guarantee potentially in play would be an all-time moronic one.
If the rumors are true and the Giants are moving away from Jones soon, allowing him to start more games and putting the injury guarantee potentially in play would be an all-time moronic one.
This ^. Except in the case of the Giants, there are apparently no limitations.
Looks like another post from you making your usual assumptions.
He already did.
Considering you're firmly in the fan club camp, maybe you can let others determine where the truth lies.
I see his flaws. I wonder he’ll play if he doesn’t have Barkley next to him to enable that opinion run where he hands it to Barkley who goes left or keeps it himself and goes right. With a torn Achilles behind him he should stay in the pocket and I’ not sure if he can do that effectively.
I see his flaws. I wonder how he’ll play if he doesn’t have Barkley next to him to enable that opinion run where he hands it to Barkley who goes left or keeps it himself and goes right. With a torn Achilles behind him he should stay in the pocket and throw more and I’m not sure if he can do that effectively.
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You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that. Link - ( New Window )
You are going to argue that you aren't a lunatic sometimes by pointing at this one thread? Come on Terps - you are on dozens, if not hundreds of threads, pounding away. Pointing to one thread doesn't prove anything. The mere fact that you can't accept this idea exemplifies just how deluded you are about your own behavior.
I am not going to argue this with you further in this format. You want to discuss it you know how to reach me.
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In comment 16416985 gidiefor said:
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You were never threatened about what you were saying -- it was the pattern of behavior that you exhibited that you were warned about. You just act/sound like a lunatic sometimes, and you pound the same statement repeatedly, over and over again in the same trhead.
The thread is linked below. Let me know where I sound like a lunatic.
This board is filled with dupes and people that actually do act like lunatics. I look forward to you actually doing something about that. Link - ( New Window )
You are going to argue that you aren't a lunatic sometimes by pointing at this one thread? Come on Terps - you are on dozens, if not hundreds of threads, pounding away. Pointing to one thread doesn't prove anything. The mere fact that you can't accept this idea exemplifies just how deluded you are about your own behavior.
I am not going to argue this with you further in this format. You want to discuss it you know how to reach me.
You argued with me, I made you look foolish, and you got angry. That's the long and the short of it.
... Weird shit. You did nothing wrong lol