This is so stupid. When presented with contrary evidence, it’s not a bad thing to change your mind about something.
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
This is so stupid. When presented with contrary evidence, it’s not a bad thing to change your mind about something.
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
+1. Exactly this. Doubling down is such a stupid machismo fallacy.
you may not like the guy but what comments have merit. We even state the same about Eli's tenure here. Inconsistent OL at times limited weapons. We remember these RBs Tiki, Bradshaw, Jacobs, Barkley ... tend to gloss over Danny Ware, Michael Jennings, Andre Brown, Michael Cox, Orleans Darkwa, etc ....
NYG has been an inconsistent team for a long while and it does hamper the production and growth of the players.
Eli WAS A SPECIAL CASE .... ie HoF level to overcome it all and drag the team along with him at times. He also had guys like Plax, Toomer, Strahan, Tom C & Spags, etc during the best of times ...
Believe he interviewed with the Steelers at the combine during their GM search. Call me (super) cynical but anyone care to wager that he wasn't actually a real candidate?
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
It will not surprise me if the Giants don't take a quarterback in the draft considering the cost it will take to move up. Nobody is really talking about that aspect of this. Sure, they could probably take McCarthy at 6 if they wanted. Still feels too rich for me.
All of this talk by the media in March is one thing, let's see what they actually do.
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
** I get it the QB should over come all of that and make the team a contender ...**
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Did you plan on answering the question I actually asked, and the one Riddick is talking about, or did you just wanna keep being BBIs very own Kamala Harris?
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Did you plan on answering the question I actually asked, and the one Riddick is talking about, or did you just wanna keep being BBIs very own Kamala Harris?
I did Jones was not a bad decision, tagging him vs extending AT THAT PRICE was a bad decision. Should have been extended on a more incentive laden contract. It is apparent with compentent OL play Jones can win ball games.
As for your Harris statement I do not like her politically either so try again ... lol
you may not like the guy but what comments have merit. We even state the same about Eli's tenure here. Inconsistent OL at times limited weapons. We remember these RBs Tiki, Bradshaw, Jacobs, Barkley ... tend to gloss over Danny Ware, Michael Jennings, Andre Brown, Michael Cox, Orleans Darkwa, etc ....
NYG has been an inconsistent team for a long while and it does hamper the production and growth of the players.
Eli WAS A SPECIAL CASE .... ie HoF level to overcome it all and drag the team along with him at times. He also had guys like Plax, Toomer, Strahan, Tom C & Spags, etc during the best of times ...
I didn’t see him on Get Up this morning but he was saying similar things yesterday. Yesterday he left out a very important point. He NEVER mentioned the injuries. And he also admitted he wasn’t a fan of Jones. So I find it hard to believe he’s truly shocked by the Giants seemingly willing to move on. He mentions the 5 1/2 games as that Jones played as being a small sample size but never addressed the elephant in the room. The 11 1/2 games Jones wasn’t available for
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
So EVERYONE else’s fault excfor Jones? Haha. Of course. I’m surprised you don’t mention the food vendors or the parking lot attendants in your list of excuses
arguing whether or not Jones was a viable pick at 6 or giving him the contract he got, no matter if you see it as a 2 year with an escape or a 4 year albatross, his injury history necessitates having a serious plan to cut ties with him NLT March 2025.
Not about Jones, but about something that's reported as a rumor with no source attached to a week later being reported as if it's a fact. Rich Eisen reports on rumors that the Giants are done with Jones and now we have Riddick claiming it as fact. At no point does Riddick acknowledge it's merely a rumor and he lambasts the Giants over it.
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
If that question was also meant for me:
Certainly reverse course. Riddick has a point about the Giants’ decisions, had they gone a different route with Jones contract, they may not be in this situation, RE: facing dead money with a ridiculous injury clause.
It wasn't 6 games. It was a full season. Availability matters.
In a game where the risk of injury is omnipresent, teams have to make calculated guesses regarding recurrence.
I think fans get caught up in the magical thinking of injury prone, but teams can't afford to think like that.
Teams have to make fact-based projections. I'd imagine the criteria is something like:
- Is the injury chronic or persistent
- Is the injury the outcome of something inherent in the player's body type/age
- Is the injury the outcome of the player's style of play
From the limited information we have, I don't think we can conclude the two injuries fall in those categories.
Now, psychologically could they be the straw that breaks the camel's back or a convenient excuse? Sure.
But I just don't think we have evidence to conclude he can't completely recover. And if he can completely recover his availability last year won't be a factor in predicting his future availability.
This is so stupid. When presented with contrary evidence, it’s not a bad thing to change your mind about something.
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
Just curious if he also blasted the Broncos, Browns and Niners for doing the exact same thing. In the Browns case, several times
Once these guys know they're cooked and never getting back in the league again (which they so desperately wanted/cry over) they go nuking everybody in media with hot takes to stay relevant until they get called out and put to sleep by fans/ratings decline or executives of media that actually pay attention.
with the Giants. So his argument is that the Giants shouldn’t acknowledge a mistake they made, but should continue to play DJ because they made a commitment to him? I’m sure as fuck glad he isn’t our GM.
His career prior to 22 makes zero difference with the new GM and HC. I have said this - the absolute 1st question the GM asks the HC is do you think we can win with Jones. HC says yes and they go to playoffs. GM then has to ask HC about long term winning - if he say no there is no contract. He clearly said yes.
Does his 5.5 games then in 23 drastically change the HC mind set. I don't think it does as far as on the field. I think what certainly changes it is health. Reality is he has had 2 neck injuries in a league based upon hitting
1) We still don't know for sure what the Giants think about Jones or what they plan to do about it. All these unsubstantiated rumors mean nothing.
2) Assuming they are sour on him, I don't consider this flip-flopping. They made a decision based on his good 2022 season and betting he would improve. I don't agree with the decision, but there is at least some basis for it. He not only didn't improve, but he regressed to the point where 2023 might be his worst season. So, they change their stance based on his actual performance and their needs/plans for the future. Flip-flopping would be seeing a 2023 season similar to 2022 and then simply deciding to move on.
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
So EVERYONE else’s fault excfor Jones? Haha. Of course. I’m surprised you don’t mention the food vendors or the parking lot attendants in your list of excuses
I never said he was not without blame (his bad reads are on him) however he actually improved in all QBs stats ... What he did not do was stay healthy. However all the QBs got injured so is DeVito and Taylor getting hurt Jone's fault or a sign that the OL is simply piss poor? Who made the decisions on the OL, OL Coach, medical staff and trainers???? .... Or none were a factor so it does not matter? Or is your stance injuries happen and is not a positive or negative, when it does not concern Jones?
It wasn't 6 games. It was a full season. Availability matters.
In a game where the risk of injury is omnipresent, teams have to make calculated guesses regarding recurrence.
I think fans get caught up in the magical thinking of injury prone, but teams can't afford to think like that.
Teams have to make fact-based projections. I'd imagine the criteria is something like:
- Is the injury chronic or persistent
- Is the injury the outcome of something inherent in the player's body type/age
- Is the injury the outcome of the player's style of play
From the limited information we have, I don't think we can conclude the two injuries fall in those categories.
Now, psychologically could they be the straw that breaks the camel's back or a convenient excuse? Sure.
But I just don't think we have evidence to conclude he can't completely recover. And if he can completely recover his availability last year won't be a factor in predicting his future availability.
You’ve been beating this drum all offseason. You can dismiss “injury prone” all you want. You’ve insisted that Jones’ recent injuries shouldn’t carry over and that the Giants will not make a decision based on these injuries. Yet, here we are with rumor after rumor that the Giants are looking for a QB.
So you’re still sticking to this thinking, huh? Is it your opinion that if the Giants move on it will have nothing to do with his past availability? All the evidence says otherwise…
To what he says here. Always important to remove your emotions/feelings on the person and listen to exactly what is said. I don’t like Riddick but he’s largely right.
The people saying situations and information change are also correct. The injury concern alone warrants moving on.
Schoen made a mistake but gave himself an out after year 2. He’s clearly learned from his mistake letting guys like Saquon & McKinney test the market. Keep good relations with your guys so they give you the chance to match. Don’t assume the market value, let the market show you.
The most important thing with making a mistake is immediately correcting course instead of compounding. Schoen comes across as honest with himself and ultimately caring more about succeeding than being right. The Giants have cared about the latter for far too long.
BBS, I am not sure why my opinion on this is so frustrating to you. I just view things differently than you. We're both guessing.
If the Giants replace Jones, my guess it's because/or a combination of:
1) They acknowledge they got the assessment wrong, and he's not good enough
2) There is in fact some kind of medical evidence one or more of his injuries presents a future problem
Here's what we know: Jones was banged up a lot between 2019-2021 and they gave him 82M guaranteed dollars after 2022. They would not have done that if they felt there was something lurking in his health.
So starting with a clean slate going into 2023, with a vote of confidence backed by 82M dollars, they believed he was there guy. That says to me nothing that happened before mattered.
They gave him a big vote of confidence. To back away from that, I believe they would need to present concrete evidence they were wrong to ownership.
Luis Riddick is right to criticize the Giants on the Jones' decisions.
Same guy who said Haskins was the best QB in the draft and killed the Giants for not taking him.
To counter his point.
- those 5/6 games were about as bad as it gets for a QB. That's alarming for a 5th year QB being paid top 10 salary in the league.
- Poor offensive line and injuries shouldn't lead to THAT BAD of play.
- he suffered 2 major injuries. This isn't a charity, that has to be considered.
- Its not just 6 games, its 5 seasons.
- Better to move quickly on a mistake then hold out out of fear. To me this is encouraging from Schoen even though he blew this contract.
Again Riddick is a clown and probably one of the few he would have been a worse gm than Gettleman.
Jones looked solid as a rookie. Threw it well despite being on a terrible team, had a bunch of fumbles. He then got paired up with Jason Garrett and Joe Judge. Not exactly a QB's dream.
Who killed the Giants for the Jones contract are now pretending that they can't move on from it. It's like the Giants have to go through some kind of catholic penance for their bad move, or the football equivalent of "the food was terrible and in such small portions."
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
Let's meet in the middle and find a QB who doesn't make the situation worse, like DJ does.
Jones looked solid as a rookie. Threw it well despite being on a terrible team, had a bunch of fumbles. He then got paired up with Jason Garrett and Joe Judge. Not exactly a QB's dream.
It's astounding how you can't seem to figure out the connection between "had a bunch of fumbles" and then the way that Garrett/Judge managed Jones when they took over.
Did they erase his fucking brain from the supposed benefit of having been a Cutcliffe disciple? Because a lot of that conservative play was still on full display in 2022 with Kafka/Daboll.
1) We still don't know for sure what the Giants think about Jones or what they plan to do about it. All these unsubstantiated rumors mean nothing.
2) Assuming they are sour on him, I don't consider this flip-flopping. They made a decision based on his good 2022 season and betting he would improve. I don't agree with the decision, but there is at least some basis for it. He not only didn't improve, but he regressed to the point where 2023 might be his worst season. So, they change their stance based on his actual performance and their needs/plans for the future. Flip-flopping would be seeing a 2023 season similar to 2022 and then simply deciding to move on.
If we go by words and actions, it certainly looks like they like him. Not only do I think there will not be a trade up to get a QB, I don't believe there will be a QB pick at 6. All conjecture of course,but we'll see.
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
Can he play to an average level? Maybe produce a touchdown outside one half?
Or is that too much to ask from the 10th highest paid player in the NFL?
100% agree with Riddick.
No lies detected. I've lost confidence in Schoen and Daboll.
At this point everything they say is lip service till I see how things pan out on the field.
This team was a hot mess due to a failure on Schoen and Daboll to put a functional oline on the field to protect for Jones and to maximize the talent of Barkley.
Jones looked solid as a rookie. Threw it well despite being on a terrible team, had a bunch of fumbles. He then got paired up with Jason Garrett and Joe Judge. Not exactly a QB's dream.
It's astounding how you can't seem to figure out the connection between "had a bunch of fumbles" and then the way that Garrett/Judge managed Jones when they took over.
Did they erase his fucking brain from the supposed benefit of having been a Cutcliffe disciple? Because a lot of that conservative play was still on full display in 2022 with Kafka/Daboll.
I hope you are not too upset if they don’t pick a QB early in the first round. It could happen.
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
+1. Exactly this. Doubling down is such a stupid machismo fallacy.
NYG has been an inconsistent team for a long while and it does hamper the production and growth of the players.
Eli WAS A SPECIAL CASE .... ie HoF level to overcome it all and drag the team along with him at times. He also had guys like Plax, Toomer, Strahan, Tom C & Spags, etc during the best of times ...
Facts.
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
No different than other teams...
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
No different than other teams...
Not all mistakes are equal. There is a reason the Giants and other teams can’t climb out of the basement.
Can't help but wonder if he'd have been better than Gettleman. That entire "search" was such a sham. DG, Abrams, Marc Ross, and Riddick.
That may be the low point of the last decade. They actually considered that a thorough search. Beyond incompetent.
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Believe he interviewed with the Steelers at the combine during their GM search. Call me (super) cynical but anyone care to wager that he wasn't actually a real candidate?
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
All of this talk by the media in March is one thing, let's see what they actually do.
Quote:
In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
** I get it the QB should over come all of that and make the team a contender ...**
Quote:
In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Did you plan on answering the question I actually asked, and the one Riddick is talking about, or did you just wanna keep being BBIs very own Kamala Harris?
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In comment 16419587 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Did you plan on answering the question I actually asked, and the one Riddick is talking about, or did you just wanna keep being BBIs very own Kamala Harris?
I did Jones was not a bad decision, tagging him vs extending AT THAT PRICE was a bad decision. Should have been extended on a more incentive laden contract. It is apparent with compentent OL play Jones can win ball games.
As for your Harris statement I do not like her politically either so try again ... lol
Keep it up and you'll be off the message board.
NYG has been an inconsistent team for a long while and it does hamper the production and growth of the players.
Eli WAS A SPECIAL CASE .... ie HoF level to overcome it all and drag the team along with him at times. He also had guys like Plax, Toomer, Strahan, Tom C & Spags, etc during the best of times ...
I didn’t see him on Get Up this morning but he was saying similar things yesterday. Yesterday he left out a very important point. He NEVER mentioned the injuries. And he also admitted he wasn’t a fan of Jones. So I find it hard to believe he’s truly shocked by the Giants seemingly willing to move on. He mentions the 5 1/2 games as that Jones played as being a small sample size but never addressed the elephant in the room. The 11 1/2 games Jones wasn’t available for
Quote:
In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
So EVERYONE else’s fault excfor Jones? Haha. Of course. I’m surprised you don’t mention the food vendors or the parking lot attendants in your list of excuses
The Misinformation Superhighway strikes again!
Quote:
In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
If that question was also meant for me:
Certainly reverse course. Riddick has a point about the Giants’ decisions, had they gone a different route with Jones contract, they may not be in this situation, RE: facing dead money with a ridiculous injury clause.
The Giants were short-sighted with Jones.
In a game where the risk of injury is omnipresent, teams have to make calculated guesses regarding recurrence.
I think fans get caught up in the magical thinking of injury prone, but teams can't afford to think like that.
Teams have to make fact-based projections. I'd imagine the criteria is something like:
- Is the injury chronic or persistent
- Is the injury the outcome of something inherent in the player's body type/age
- Is the injury the outcome of the player's style of play
From the limited information we have, I don't think we can conclude the two injuries fall in those categories.
Now, psychologically could they be the straw that breaks the camel's back or a convenient excuse? Sure.
But I just don't think we have evidence to conclude he can't completely recover. And if he can completely recover his availability last year won't be a factor in predicting his future availability.
Quote:
Just stop trying to talk like her.
Keep it up and you'll be off the message board.
Thanks for looking out for me!
While it’s obviously preferable to not make mistakes like fooling yourselves into believing Daniel Jones deserved the absurd contract they gave him, being willing to admit that it was a mistake is not a bad thing.
Just curious if he also blasted the Broncos, Browns and Niners for doing the exact same thing. In the Browns case, several times
Quote:
ass. Not hiring that loser as GM was one of Mara's best decisions (low bar).
Can't help but wonder if he'd have been better than Gettleman. That entire "search" was such a sham. DG, Abrams, Marc Ross, and Riddick.
That may be the low point of the last decade. They actually considered that a thorough search. Beyond incompetent.
That list speaks volumes about the Giants "leadership". Where is the clown picture when you need it?
For some he didnt, they even said that his first year with BD was his 'real second year' and the two years with Judge didn't really count.
Does his 5.5 games then in 23 drastically change the HC mind set. I don't think it does as far as on the field. I think what certainly changes it is health. Reality is he has had 2 neck injuries in a league based upon hitting
2) Assuming they are sour on him, I don't consider this flip-flopping. They made a decision based on his good 2022 season and betting he would improve. I don't agree with the decision, but there is at least some basis for it. He not only didn't improve, but he regressed to the point where 2023 might be his worst season. So, they change their stance based on his actual performance and their needs/plans for the future. Flip-flopping would be seeing a 2023 season similar to 2022 and then simply deciding to move on.
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ass. Not hiring that loser as GM was one of Mara's best decisions (low bar).
Can't help but wonder if he'd have been better than Gettleman. That entire "search" was such a sham. DG, Abrams, Marc Ross, and Riddick.
That may be the low point of the last decade. They actually considered that a thorough search. Beyond incompetent.
He would've been a different kind of bad.
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In comment 16419587 j_rud said:
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In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
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He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
So EVERYONE else’s fault excfor Jones? Haha. Of course. I’m surprised you don’t mention the food vendors or the parking lot attendants in your list of excuses
I never said he was not without blame (his bad reads are on him) however he actually improved in all QBs stats ... What he did not do was stay healthy. However all the QBs got injured so is DeVito and Taylor getting hurt Jone's fault or a sign that the OL is simply piss poor? Who made the decisions on the OL, OL Coach, medical staff and trainers???? .... Or none were a factor so it does not matter? Or is your stance injuries happen and is not a positive or negative, when it does not concern Jones?
Or after.
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It wasn't 6 games. It was a full season. Availability matters.
In a game where the risk of injury is omnipresent, teams have to make calculated guesses regarding recurrence.
I think fans get caught up in the magical thinking of injury prone, but teams can't afford to think like that.
Teams have to make fact-based projections. I'd imagine the criteria is something like:
- Is the injury chronic or persistent
- Is the injury the outcome of something inherent in the player's body type/age
- Is the injury the outcome of the player's style of play
From the limited information we have, I don't think we can conclude the two injuries fall in those categories.
Now, psychologically could they be the straw that breaks the camel's back or a convenient excuse? Sure.
But I just don't think we have evidence to conclude he can't completely recover. And if he can completely recover his availability last year won't be a factor in predicting his future availability.
You’ve been beating this drum all offseason. You can dismiss “injury prone” all you want. You’ve insisted that Jones’ recent injuries shouldn’t carry over and that the Giants will not make a decision based on these injuries. Yet, here we are with rumor after rumor that the Giants are looking for a QB.
So you’re still sticking to this thinking, huh? Is it your opinion that if the Giants move on it will have nothing to do with his past availability? All the evidence says otherwise…
The people saying situations and information change are also correct. The injury concern alone warrants moving on.
Schoen made a mistake but gave himself an out after year 2. He’s clearly learned from his mistake letting guys like Saquon & McKinney test the market. Keep good relations with your guys so they give you the chance to match. Don’t assume the market value, let the market show you.
The most important thing with making a mistake is immediately correcting course instead of compounding. Schoen comes across as honest with himself and ultimately caring more about succeeding than being right. The Giants have cared about the latter for far too long.
If the Giants replace Jones, my guess it's because/or a combination of:
1) They acknowledge they got the assessment wrong, and he's not good enough
2) There is in fact some kind of medical evidence one or more of his injuries presents a future problem
Here's what we know: Jones was banged up a lot between 2019-2021 and they gave him 82M guaranteed dollars after 2022. They would not have done that if they felt there was something lurking in his health.
So starting with a clean slate going into 2023, with a vote of confidence backed by 82M dollars, they believed he was there guy. That says to me nothing that happened before mattered.
They gave him a big vote of confidence. To back away from that, I believe they would need to present concrete evidence they were wrong to ownership.
To counter his point.
- those 5/6 games were about as bad as it gets for a QB. That's alarming for a 5th year QB being paid top 10 salary in the league.
- Poor offensive line and injuries shouldn't lead to THAT BAD of play.
- he suffered 2 major injuries. This isn't a charity, that has to be considered.
- Its not just 6 games, its 5 seasons.
- Better to move quickly on a mistake then hold out out of fear. To me this is encouraging from Schoen even though he blew this contract.
Again Riddick is a clown and probably one of the few he would have been a worse gm than Gettleman.
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In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
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He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
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In comment 16419587 j_rud said:
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In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
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He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
Let's meet in the middle and find a QB who doesn't make the situation worse, like DJ does.
It's astounding how you can't seem to figure out the connection between "had a bunch of fumbles" and then the way that Garrett/Judge managed Jones when they took over.
Did they erase his fucking brain from the supposed benefit of having been a Cutcliffe disciple? Because a lot of that conservative play was still on full display in 2022 with Kafka/Daboll.
2) Assuming they are sour on him, I don't consider this flip-flopping. They made a decision based on his good 2022 season and betting he would improve. I don't agree with the decision, but there is at least some basis for it. He not only didn't improve, but he regressed to the point where 2023 might be his worst season. So, they change their stance based on his actual performance and their needs/plans for the future. Flip-flopping would be seeing a 2023 season similar to 2022 and then simply deciding to move on.
If we go by words and actions, it certainly looks like they like him. Not only do I think there will not be a trade up to get a QB, I don't believe there will be a QB pick at 6. All conjecture of course,but we'll see.
That being said, I do think moving on from Jones is the right move to make. It all just is what it is.
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In comment 16419587 j_rud said:
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In comment 16419580 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16419572 ChrisRick said:
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He has a point. The Giants continue to put themselves behind the 8-ball with their decisions.
Facts.
So don't reverse course on a bad decision? That's not exactly the mic drop you're thinking it is.
Maybe the bad decision is NOT Jones. It is the decisions about the piss poor OL choices ... Maybe the lack of OL coachng ability .... maybe having ALL slot WRs. Retaining a cooked Shep (great guy though) .... The mismanaged preseason .... hiring a head strong DC WITH a head strong HC that is showing he has a low emotional IQ at times ...
I get it the QB should over come all of that a be make the team a contender ... OK well most QBs are not going to do that ... Maybe Brady but again HoF the Goat ... Mahomes trending to be an all-time great ...
Great point. This B/S that the QB is supposed to overcome all odds and win anyway is a crock.
Can he play to an average level? Maybe produce a touchdown outside one half?
Or is that too much to ask from the 10th highest paid player in the NFL?
No lies detected. I've lost confidence in Schoen and Daboll.
At this point everything they say is lip service till I see how things pan out on the field.
This team was a hot mess due to a failure on Schoen and Daboll to put a functional oline on the field to protect for Jones and to maximize the talent of Barkley.
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Jones looked solid as a rookie. Threw it well despite being on a terrible team, had a bunch of fumbles. He then got paired up with Jason Garrett and Joe Judge. Not exactly a QB's dream.
It's astounding how you can't seem to figure out the connection between "had a bunch of fumbles" and then the way that Garrett/Judge managed Jones when they took over.
Did they erase his fucking brain from the supposed benefit of having been a Cutcliffe disciple? Because a lot of that conservative play was still on full display in 2022 with Kafka/Daboll.
I hope you are not too upset if they don’t pick a QB early in the first round. It could happen.