I continue to hear the Giants have a thing for Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy. Three executives in the league told me they would not be surprised if New York moved up to Arizona’s fourth overall pick to make sure they land him.
Giants love JJ…no Giants love Maye…wait, maybe they love Daniels! It will be interesting to see who is available when they pick, and if they have an actual choice, which one they’ll take. Until then, it’s all noise.
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Daboll wants a QB that can move around and will take the throws that are schemed for him. The Maras want someone they'd like their daughters to bring home that can help sell Toyotas and Dunkin' Donuts in north Jersey.
Not my favorite of the bunch, but I'd appreciate them at least trying to improve the position.
Ossenfort comes from TEN and has worked with Cowden. There is a relationship there. Just like Schoen leveraged Daboll to facilitate the move up for Hyatt, I can see Schoen leveraging Cowden here.
Why it makes sense?
-Arizona drops only 2 spots and can still add a high level WR while netting more draft capital.
-NYG ensures any of Daniels, Maye or McCarthy without worrying about being leapfrogged by MIN, ATL, DEN, LAV or anyone else.
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
The Cards are stacked with picks in this years draft. 13 of them to be precise. Wouldn't shock me is the cost is a 2025 2 and maybe a swap of one of our 2's for one of their 3's this year(they have 3)
But if Wilson goes to Pittsburgh
Cousins to Atlanta
Then Denver and Minnesota become the real threats to move up. If the Cards move to 11 or 12, they’re most likely missing out on MHjr, Nabers or Odunze.
Chargers would take one, Atlanta would take the other, Bears probably take the last one of the big 3 WRs.
My feeling is we will only have to move to 5, if at all
I think its funny someone else stated Giants can't keep a secret.. Hmm, I have seen reports the Giants love Maye, JJM, Daniels, won't take a QB at 6, are trying to move up into top 3, could trade down, is interested in OT, loves the WR's....
Giants secret apparently is that EVERYONE is of interest!
RE: The Jimmy Johnson Trade Value Chart (As A Rough Guide) Says
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Give up a second and a third? Not exactly part of a rebuild formula.
RE: The Jimmy Johnson Trade Value Chart (As A Rough Guide) Says
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Gotta stop using the Jimmy Johnson Chart. It's 30 years old. It's a completely different league with completely different values assigned to draft picks and players in general. Any GM who even glanced at that thing when analyzing a trade should be fired on the spot.
All teams have advanced analytics departments now do you really think decisions are being made based on that relic?
likely have to massively overpay to move up to #4 because we'd be moving up for a QB and because dropping to #6 means that Arizona would likely lose out on MHJ. They will want a lot extra as compensation for that loss.
all just writers trying to stay relevant. I am fully behind whichever QB the Giants scouts think is the best for us. I really couldn't tell you if JJ, Maye, or Daniels are the best (Nix and Penix for that matter too).
I don't mind if they take a QB they really like at 6.
I also don't mind if they pass on a QB sitting there and draft a WR (or whatever) and kick the QB can down the road another year.
I've said all along, going from 6 to 3 would gut this year's draft class, and affect next's year's too.
But if they're SO hot for a guy that they have to trade up from 6 to 4 to make sure someone else doesn't leap them, that's gonna suck. Unless it works out and you land the right QBotF (obviously).
The other thing is this. Maybe this is smoke. But if they ARE hot for McCarthy, and it DOES play out that they take him at 4 or 6 -- who's leaking this shit?
It's either real, or a smokescreen so nobody jumps them for Maye.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
The big 3 QBs will go and (I believe) the Cards will not pass up on a big time WR to pair with Murray.
Just my take.
I agree and I think they will be perfectly happy with whoever is there at 5 whether it be JD, DM or JJM. The only one I would trade up to 3 for is JD. JJM is graded higher than DM in my book, but not enough to trade up to 3 for him if both are on the board I sit pat and wait until after the Cardinals take MHJ. If AZ tells schoen they are going to deal the pick and pass on MHJ then I trade up to pick 4 for the QB. GMs communicate honestly and transparently while on the clock, if Schoen has to trade up to 4 he will know it.
It's either real, or a smokescreen so nobody jumps them for Maye.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
I hope JJM is the 4th and it's not Maye myself, but I think the NFL had them rated very closely and it wouldn't surprise me at all if JJM went as 3rd qb off the board. DM wouldn't be a bad consolation prize, I just don't think he is as quick minded and efficient in the pocket (as shown by comparing their stats under duress and simply watching all 22s of both prospects).
Eli been working with him and I’m sure extolling his virtues to Schoen/Daboll any chance he can. The problem is, I think Maye is going to the redskins at 2.
I don't mind if they take a QB they really like at 6.
I also don't mind if they pass on a QB sitting there and draft a WR (or whatever) and kick the QB can down the road another year.
I've said all along, going from 6 to 3 would gut this year's draft class, and affect next's year's too.
But if they're SO hot for a guy that they have to trade up from 6 to 4 to make sure someone else doesn't leap them, that's gonna suck. Unless it works out and you land the right QBotF (obviously).
The other thing is this. Maybe this is smoke. But if they ARE hot for McCarthy, and it DOES play out that they take him at 4 or 6 -- who's leaking this shit?
I'm sick of hearing about winning meaningless games last year. For one they aren't meaningless to the coaches and players, you think they didn't really enjoy crushing the Eagles as they went into the playoffs shaken and lacking confidence? And secondly, we should have won 3 games easily which would have put us in the playoffs or if we lost 3 close games and won the 3 we should have won we'd be in the same spot. Those 3 games being the Bills game, Jets game and having Mason Crosby miss the game winning fg Gano would have made if he wasn't injured. Enough of the if we didn't win those meaningless games stuff, we were should have won 3 games we lost and we maybe could have lost 3 games we won but it wasn't like we should have won them like the 3 losses we should have won.
Eli been working with him and I’m sure extolling his virtues to Schoen/Daboll any chance he can. The problem is, I think Maye is going to the redskins at 2.
If Maye goes 2nd I'm trading whatever it takes for the QB whom I and many others believe to be QB1 in this draft: Jayden Daniels. If the Pats are insistent on taking him then I'm perfectly happy taking JJM at 5 with a slight trade up (I firmly believe the Cardinals want MHJ and won't trade down if he is there).
RE: The Jimmy Johnson Trade Value Chart (As A Rough Guide) Says
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
The first and third should be enough, but you think it might take a sweetener - and your sweeter is a 2nd? Glad you're not the GM.
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
There is not much to work though honestly. The Pats are either willing to part with the opportunity to take one of the sure fire top-rated QBs in this draft or they’re not.
Unless you tell me the Pats are intrigued by taking a shot at Fields and going BPA at 3 (or 6) or they themselves prefer McCarthy after a trade down, it’s very hard to envision anyone cracking the top 3 the way things sit right now.
is the worst insider in the media. He constantly discusses "rumors" that prove to be untrue. How he still works for NFL network is mindboggling. It's hard to believe that this guy replaced Adam Schefter.
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
There is not much to work though honestly. The Pats are either willing to part with the opportunity to take one of the sure fire top-rated QBs in this draft or they’re not.
Unless you tell me the Pats are intrigued by taking a shot at Fields and going BPA at 3 (or 6) or they themselves prefer McCarthy after a trade down, it’s very hard to envision anyone cracking the top 3 the way things sit right now.
If I were the Pats I would love to trade down with the Giants trading up for Maye. I would then make a slight trade up for JJM whom they very well may prefer over DM. They would get their QB of choice over the 2 and a future first plus 2nd or something like that. I would be happier than if we didn't take any qb in round 1, but that would be the worst case scenario while still taking a qb in the top of rd1 just imo.
A recent BBI post linked to an article about a new assessment (not necessarily a new chart).
My take away was the JJ Chart overvalued the very early picks in round 1 (e.g. 1st overall to around 6th). The JJ chart / data is very nonlinear at the top (e.g. 3000 pts for 1st overall, 2600 for 2nd, 2200 for 3rd, then 1800, 1700 and 1600 for 4th, 5th and 6th).
However teams trading up for QBs seemed to have paid above the JJ chart to draft top QBs.
So I think the JJ chart likely establishes a minimum to trade up from, say 6th overall to 4th or 3rd overall.
Giving up only a 2024 third rounder to move up from 6th overall to 4th overall to ensure getting your future franchise QB is cheap IMHO.
I think most believe it will take more, maybe much more.
It's either real, or a smokescreen so nobody jumps them for Maye.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
I’m honestly not even sure what your point is. Yes, I understand the Giants actually spent time with McCarthy and “like” him. It doesn’t mean they aren’t secretly targeting Maye, made up their mind already, and trying to get teams off the scent as best they can. It’s what a smokescreen is.
We’ll find out soon enough, but to totally dismiss the possibility this sudden surge of information isn’t a smokescreen is naive.
problem is that if the QBs go #1, #2, #3, there will be a bidding war for JJM, which of course will just drive up the price.
AZ wants MHJ according to all reports I've seen they aren't going to trade down if he is there. And I think they'd be stupid to do so. He's the only surefire pick in this draft imo.
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
They’ve been speaking since the combine. Grain of salt because this source has other motivations for this to be out there, but there’s more traction on the Pats trading the pick than people want to believe. They say its 60-40 for a trade so id say its 50-50
Not to say they don’t prefer one of them, but they aren’t in control of their own destiny.
I am sure the Giants want Maye…they likely have for a while. However after then combine when they had a chance to meet and see McCarthy in person all of a sudden there was a shift in the narrative.
Prior to the combine the word from beat writers and Schoen was all about Daniel Jones being the guy still. I am speculating but if the giants only liked the top 3, they knew there was a small chance they could get 1. After the combine the narrative has been much more about QB’s. Eisen dropped that bomb and there was not even a peep from Schwartz and company refuting it. Charlie Weiss was on the NYG official YouTube channel being interviewed by Schmeelk talking about all the QBs and that the Giants needed to draft one before filling other holes.
I think what changed is the Giants may have realized there are now 4 QBs that are acceptable and now they know they can get one if they are aggressive. They still don’t control their own destiny, but much easier to plan knowing Arizona and LAC have their QB in place.
A recent BBI post linked to an article about a new assessment (not necessarily a new chart).
I didn't catch the post that had the link to that article but here is a link to an article about NFL draft charts
"Many things go into assigning value to the picks that get traded. For years, various models were created to try and standardize the value of draft picks. The influx of analytics and independent team values has rendered these models mostly obsolete. That said, they do give fans and media a starting point when discussing the various trades that are bound to happen."
problem is that if the QBs go #1, #2, #3, there will be a bidding war for JJM, which of course will just drive up the price.
AZ wants MHJ according to all reports I've seen they aren't going to trade down if he is there. And I think they'd be stupid to do so. He's the only surefire pick in this draft imo.
I think so as well. That could mean that none of the teams drafting #1 - #4 would trade unless perhaps they were offered a "historic" amount. That would mean our only option would be to trade with SD, which might be possible because they would still get their choice of Nabers, Odunze, Alt, or whoever else they want.
RE: My feeling is we will only have to move to 5, if at all
The big 3 QBs will go and (I believe) the Cards will not pass up on a big time WR to pair with Murray.
Just my take.
I've always felt LA at the #5 slot would probably be the only available pick to be moved as well. Williams, Daniels, Maye and Harrison Jr. seem like a good lock to me for those teams holding the picks now.
The Giants are not in position to dictate their QB
And would be silly to start leaking anything deliberately about who, what, when , where given they have no control
The Giants like all 4 and we know that or they wouldn’t have put all gears ahead on going for a QB at this point
They may like 1 over the other or be willing to move up for 1 or not see much of a difference to part with assets
That we dont know
And if they are worth their salt at evaluating than they shouldn’t even be completed in their process. The Giants have spent 15 minutes with these guys. Long way to go
Pro Days, 1 on 1s, Dinner with the Maras etc
And Schoen has basically screamed from rooftops how important a Tua meeting /talking to these QBs is
Who also think it's Maye whom Schoen covets (just the feel from everything going on so far). But I'd just sit tight at #6. Because at the end of the day, I'm still not expecting a QB at #6. Battered wife syndrome, I just expect the worst.
thing I will say is what others have said, if the Giants really like Maye, it would help their case for McCarthy to go before him.
That said, it wouldn't shock me at all if they like McCarthy.
Does it really help their case though? What changes? The Bears, Commanders and Pats don't care they hold the cards. And how does it help us get Maye if Washington, Chicago and NE thinks we want JJM? Conversely, if a team behind us that wants a qb thinks we like JJM how does that help us? They would trade ahead of us for JJM or DM. How does a smokescreen of liking JJM help with that? I don't see the utility of a JJM smokescreen myself. I think it's all speculation, the only real info points toward the fact that the Giants want a QB and believe there are 4 top tier qbs so they will get one. The order of preference will not be known and may never be known if we wait to take the 4th (which is what I would do unless we could trade up for JD at 3).
And would be silly to start leaking anything deliberately about who, what, when , where given they have no control
The Giants like all 4 and we know that or they wouldn’t have put all gears ahead on going for a QB at this point
They may like 1 over the other or be willing to move up for 1 or not see much of a difference to part with assets
That we dont know
And if they are worth their salt at evaluating than they shouldn’t even be completed in their process. The Giants have spent 15 minutes with these guys. Long way to go
Pro Days, 1 on 1s, Dinner with the Maras etc
And Schoen has basically screamed from rooftops how important a Tua meeting /talking to these QBs is
goes the way some people are saying. While many here ignore or don't want to see Purdy as a viable NFL starter, his play as a 7th rd pick will have some teams thinking they can get a "starter" in FA, lower rd picks and load up elsewhere.
Because conventional wisdom says there is no chance Maye lasts beyond the third spot. If he does, it's easier for the Giants to trade up for him.
I guess it could incentivize a team to trade up to 3 for JJM if it's him and Maye on the board. I don't see that happening though. 3 QBs will go 1-2-3 whether NE trades down or not, I don't see us leaking a smokescreen about JJM changing who goes top 3 really. I guess it helps if NE likes JJM over Maye. If they think we like JJM over Maye too then they won't trade down with JJM and Maye on the board they will just take JJM. That's the only route I see a JJM smokescreen being useful. Maybe that's the cause and effect here?
one thing a lot of fans still can't wrap their heads around is the final pecking order is not what they were told or expected it to be.
Every single year, "OMG, he went before he was supposed to? How could they draft X before Y?"
I remember a lot of us thought Detroit's draft was bad.
My point here is don't assume teams think Maye is 4th.
Sorry I had to type it out to break down the one scenario where liking Maye and leaking smoke about JJM could be helpful. Now I see it. Maybe Schoen knows the Pats like JJM over Maye and if they think Schoen likes JJM too they will take JJM over Maye leaving Maye as the 4th qb for us. I'm fine with either of them myself. I prefer JJM, but they both are very promising to me. As long as we don't trade up to 3 for anyone but JD then I'm happy to take Maye or JJM with a slight tradeup.
one thing a lot of fans still can't wrap their heads around is the final pecking order is not what they were told or expected it to be.
Every single year, "OMG, he went before he was supposed to? How could they draft X before Y?"
I remember a lot of us thought Detroit's draft was bad.
My point here is don't assume teams think Maye is 4th.
Yep. If you look at the draft profiles on nfl.com, they have Nabers as the #1 prospect, with Harrison #2, then Williams. They have the top 5 or 6 qb's close in ratings with Daniels #2, Maye #3 and Nix #4.
RE: ... and your sweeter is a 2nd? Glad you're not the GM.
"The New York Jets made the first big move of the 2018 NFL Draft by trading with the Indianapolis Colts for the No. 3 overall pick. The Jets announced that they gave up their No. 6 overall pick, two second-round picks — No. 37 and No. 49 overall — as well as a 2019 2nd round pick."
So in order to get 3rd overall, 2200 pts, the Jets gave up:
So ~ 2700 pts to get the pick valued at 2200 pts (3rd overall). A 500 pt premium or ~ a 25% premium relative to the JJ chart.
A 25% premium on the 4th overall pick from the 6th overall, 1800 pts would be 2250 pts, so a 450 pt premium. Which would be the Giants second 2nd rounder or so.
I doubt the Giants can move up from 6th to 4th without at least giving up the Leonard Williams / Seattle 2nd rounder.
Their weight after the season, so to speak. Look at how they were in-season. That's their real frame. Jayden and JJ are slender, I don't care how much weight they put on for the dog and pony shows. It will still be a concern at the next level. Sure, they can put on 'real' weight at the NFL level, but it may take them a lot more time to get used to it (like years).
is a very good chance that one of the four QBs falls to #6, or at least #5. Trading up to #3 seems silly, especially since 50% of trade ups for QBs are just expensive failures.
Their weight after the season, so to speak. Look at how they were in-season. That's their real frame. Jayden and JJ are slender, I don't care how much weight they put on for the dog and pony shows. It will still be a concern at the next level. Sure, they can put on 'real' weight at the NFL level, but it may take them a lot more time to get used to it (like years).
JJ is not slender and he’s 2+ years younger than Daniels.
I think its funny someone else stated Giants can't keep a secret.. Hmm, I have seen reports the Giants love Maye, JJM, Daniels, won't take a QB at 6, are trying to move up into top 3, could trade down, is interested in OT, loves the WR's....
Giants secret apparently is that EVERYONE is of interest!
Washington, it increased the chances Daniels goes there.
He’s the perfect fit for that offense.
Maye has connections to him apparently but push come to shove, I think they take Daniels.
That means Maye and JJ would be available at 3.
What NE does in FA will dictate what they do on draft night.
I like the TC model of Trade Charts and a good explanation of Trades Chart is here on PFN: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-trade-value-charts-different-draft-trade-value-charts-to-follow/
--------------------------- Over The Cap Trade Calculator - ( New Window )
OTC and I see the PFN link was previously addressed.
It appears some of our resident QB experts are now proficient in human
and 2) they get obsessed with players, I'm sure it's true.
La Canfora is pretty good.
Say what?
First off, La Canfora is turrible. The Schoen regime is pretty tight lipped, unlike the previous one. Every team gets obsessed with players. What's your point?
RE: I've always thought a trade up to 4 makes sense
Ossenfort comes from TEN and has worked with Cowden. There is a relationship there. Just like Schoen leveraged Daboll to facilitate the move up for Hyatt, I can see Schoen leveraging Cowden here.
Why it makes sense?
-Arizona drops only 2 spots and can still add a high level WR while netting more draft capital.
-NYG ensures any of Daniels, Maye or McCarthy without worrying about being leapfrogged by MIN, ATL, DEN, LAV or anyone else.
Good point. The only thing is this: Arizona has something like 13 draft picks this year already (see HERE). They might want something for next year as much, if not more than this year.
RE: RE: The Jimmy Johnson Trade Value Chart (As A Rough Guide) Says
4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
The Cards are stacked with picks in this years draft. 13 of them to be precise. Wouldn't shock me is the cost is a 2025 2 and maybe a swap of one of our 2's for one of their 3's this year(they have 3)
I'd do that deal. Makes sense for both sides. Give Zona our 47th pick (the second 2nd rounder acquired for Leo Williams from Seattle) for the first of their three 3rd rounders (#66 overall or #71 overall). They've got #s 66, 71, and 90 overall in that round.
And the sheer number of likely bidders, I would expect the swap to require our 2025 1st with maybe a pick back in the 4th round. This is going to cost much more than people are thinking here.
likely have to massively overpay to move up to #4 because we'd be moving up for a QB and because dropping to #6 means that Arizona would likely lose out on MHJ. They will want a lot extra as compensation for that loss.
Not if New England takes MHJr at 3 (they could sign a QB in free agency such Baker Mayfield). They'll prolly be content with one of either Odunze or Nabers with the Chargers prolly trading out of 4 to a team that wants JJ McCarthy as their QB.
likely have to massively overpay to move up to #4 because we'd be moving up for a QB and because dropping to #6 means that Arizona would likely lose out on MHJ. They will want a lot extra as compensation for that loss.
Not if New England takes MHJr at 3 (they could sign a QB in free agency such Baker Mayfield). They'll prolly be content with one of either Odunze or Nabers with the Chargers prolly trading out of 4 to a team that wants JJ McCarthy as their QB.
If NE signs a FA QB, do you really believe they would pass up two first round draft choices, plus just to take one of the three wide receivers who are stacked with virtually the same rating? I was NE in that situation, I would take the loop and draft, whichever of the three wide receivers made it to the bottom of the top 10.
Washington, it increased the chances Daniels goes there.
He’s the perfect fit for that offense.
Maye has connections to him apparently but push come to shove, I think they take Daniels.
That means Maye and JJ would be available at 3.
What NE does in FA will dictate what they do on draft night.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
La Canfora is pretty good.
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Not my favorite of the bunch, but I'd appreciate them at least trying to improve the position.
Why it makes sense?
-Arizona drops only 2 spots and can still add a high level WR while netting more draft capital.
-NYG ensures any of Daniels, Maye or McCarthy without worrying about being leapfrogged by MIN, ATL, DEN, LAV or anyone else.
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Cousins to Atlanta
Then Denver and Minnesota become the real threats to move up. If the Cards move to 11 or 12, they’re most likely missing out on MHjr, Nabers or Odunze.
Chargers would take one, Atlanta would take the other, Bears probably take the last one of the big 3 WRs.
Just my take.
I think its funny someone else stated Giants can't keep a secret.. Hmm, I have seen reports the Giants love Maye, JJM, Daniels, won't take a QB at 6, are trying to move up into top 3, could trade down, is interested in OT, loves the WR's....
Giants secret apparently is that EVERYONE is of interest!
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Give up a second and a third? Not exactly part of a rebuild formula.
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
Gotta stop using the Jimmy Johnson Chart. It's 30 years old. It's a completely different league with completely different values assigned to draft picks and players in general. Any GM who even glanced at that thing when analyzing a trade should be fired on the spot.
All teams have advanced analytics departments now do you really think decisions are being made based on that relic?
I also don't mind if they pass on a QB sitting there and draft a WR (or whatever) and kick the QB can down the road another year.
I've said all along, going from 6 to 3 would gut this year's draft class, and affect next's year's too.
But if they're SO hot for a guy that they have to trade up from 6 to 4 to make sure someone else doesn't leap them, that's gonna suck. Unless it works out and you land the right QBotF (obviously).
The other thing is this. Maybe this is smoke. But if they ARE hot for McCarthy, and it DOES play out that they take him at 4 or 6 -- who's leaking this shit?
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
Just my take.
I agree and I think they will be perfectly happy with whoever is there at 5 whether it be JD, DM or JJM. The only one I would trade up to 3 for is JD. JJM is graded higher than DM in my book, but not enough to trade up to 3 for him if both are on the board I sit pat and wait until after the Cardinals take MHJ. If AZ tells schoen they are going to deal the pick and pass on MHJ then I trade up to pick 4 for the QB. GMs communicate honestly and transparently while on the clock, if Schoen has to trade up to 4 he will know it.
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It's either real, or a smokescreen so nobody jumps them for Maye.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
I hope JJM is the 4th and it's not Maye myself, but I think the NFL had them rated very closely and it wouldn't surprise me at all if JJM went as 3rd qb off the board. DM wouldn't be a bad consolation prize, I just don't think he is as quick minded and efficient in the pocket (as shown by comparing their stats under duress and simply watching all 22s of both prospects).
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
I also don't mind if they pass on a QB sitting there and draft a WR (or whatever) and kick the QB can down the road another year.
I've said all along, going from 6 to 3 would gut this year's draft class, and affect next's year's too.
But if they're SO hot for a guy that they have to trade up from 6 to 4 to make sure someone else doesn't leap them, that's gonna suck. Unless it works out and you land the right QBotF (obviously).
The other thing is this. Maybe this is smoke. But if they ARE hot for McCarthy, and it DOES play out that they take him at 4 or 6 -- who's leaking this shit?
I'm sick of hearing about winning meaningless games last year. For one they aren't meaningless to the coaches and players, you think they didn't really enjoy crushing the Eagles as they went into the playoffs shaken and lacking confidence? And secondly, we should have won 3 games easily which would have put us in the playoffs or if we lost 3 close games and won the 3 we should have won we'd be in the same spot. Those 3 games being the Bills game, Jets game and having Mason Crosby miss the game winning fg Gano would have made if he wasn't injured. Enough of the if we didn't win those meaningless games stuff, we were should have won 3 games we lost and we maybe could have lost 3 games we won but it wasn't like we should have won them like the 3 losses we should have won.
If Maye goes 2nd I'm trading whatever it takes for the QB whom I and many others believe to be QB1 in this draft: Jayden Daniels. If the Pats are insistent on taking him then I'm perfectly happy taking JJM at 5 with a slight trade up (I firmly believe the Cardinals want MHJ and won't trade down if he is there).
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
The first and third should be enough, but you think it might take a sweetener - and your sweeter is a 2nd? Glad you're not the GM.
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If they can’t get Maye or Daniels
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
There is not much to work though honestly. The Pats are either willing to part with the opportunity to take one of the sure fire top-rated QBs in this draft or they’re not.
Unless you tell me the Pats are intrigued by taking a shot at Fields and going BPA at 3 (or 6) or they themselves prefer McCarthy after a trade down, it’s very hard to envision anyone cracking the top 3 the way things sit right now.
There are rumors that Washington likes Daniels.
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In comment 16420412 ajr2456 said:
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If they can’t get Maye or Daniels
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
There is not much to work though honestly. The Pats are either willing to part with the opportunity to take one of the sure fire top-rated QBs in this draft or they’re not.
Unless you tell me the Pats are intrigued by taking a shot at Fields and going BPA at 3 (or 6) or they themselves prefer McCarthy after a trade down, it’s very hard to envision anyone cracking the top 3 the way things sit right now.
If I were the Pats I would love to trade down with the Giants trading up for Maye. I would then make a slight trade up for JJM whom they very well may prefer over DM. They would get their QB of choice over the 2 and a future first plus 2nd or something like that. I would be happier than if we didn't take any qb in round 1, but that would be the worst case scenario while still taking a qb in the top of rd1 just imo.
My take away was the JJ Chart overvalued the very early picks in round 1 (e.g. 1st overall to around 6th). The JJ chart / data is very nonlinear at the top (e.g. 3000 pts for 1st overall, 2600 for 2nd, 2200 for 3rd, then 1800, 1700 and 1600 for 4th, 5th and 6th).
However teams trading up for QBs seemed to have paid above the JJ chart to draft top QBs.
So I think the JJ chart likely establishes a minimum to trade up from, say 6th overall to 4th or 3rd overall.
Giving up only a 2024 third rounder to move up from 6th overall to 4th overall to ensure getting your future franchise QB is cheap IMHO.
I think most believe it will take more, maybe much more.
Time will tell.
Neal ain't gonna move the needle one bit. We would have to trade Thibs to move the needle at all in a trade up imo.
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It's either real, or a smokescreen so nobody jumps them for Maye.
It seems a little gratuitous at this point. Like the Giants are telling everyone and their mother they love McCarthy.
You understand this stuff isn't comments from the Giants, right? It's from reporters and other clubs' staff watching who they show the most interest in at the combine. The Giants aren't going to spend all their time around McCarthy at the combine if they aren't interested in McCarthy. And since the other three QBs will be gone by 6, they would be stupid not to be interested in getting every bit of info they can on McCarthy, especially when the other three didn't do anything at the combine.
I’m honestly not even sure what your point is. Yes, I understand the Giants actually spent time with McCarthy and “like” him. It doesn’t mean they aren’t secretly targeting Maye, made up their mind already, and trying to get teams off the scent as best they can. It’s what a smokescreen is.
We’ll find out soon enough, but to totally dismiss the possibility this sudden surge of information isn’t a smokescreen is naive.
AZ wants MHJ according to all reports I've seen they aren't going to trade down if he is there. And I think they'd be stupid to do so. He's the only surefire pick in this draft imo.
Same and hope so!
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If they can’t get Maye or Daniels
This is what Hughes reported today. This makes sense and I'm guessing Schoen is working the phones to get to 3 desperately.
They’ve been speaking since the combine. Grain of salt because this source has other motivations for this to be out there, but there’s more traction on the Pats trading the pick than people want to believe. They say its 60-40 for a trade so id say its 50-50
I am sure the Giants want Maye…they likely have for a while. However after then combine when they had a chance to meet and see McCarthy in person all of a sudden there was a shift in the narrative.
Prior to the combine the word from beat writers and Schoen was all about Daniel Jones being the guy still. I am speculating but if the giants only liked the top 3, they knew there was a small chance they could get 1. After the combine the narrative has been much more about QB’s. Eisen dropped that bomb and there was not even a peep from Schwartz and company refuting it. Charlie Weiss was on the NYG official YouTube channel being interviewed by Schmeelk talking about all the QBs and that the Giants needed to draft one before filling other holes.
I think what changed is the Giants may have realized there are now 4 QBs that are acceptable and now they know they can get one if they are aggressive. They still don’t control their own destiny, but much easier to plan knowing Arizona and LAC have their QB in place.
That said, it wouldn't shock me at all if they like McCarthy.
I didn't catch the post that had the link to that article but here is a link to an article about NFL draft charts
"Many things go into assigning value to the picks that get traded. For years, various models were created to try and standardize the value of draft picks. The influx of analytics and independent team values has rendered these models mostly obsolete. That said, they do give fans and media a starting point when discussing the various trades that are bound to happen."
Different Draft Trade Value Charts To Follow - ( New Window )
That said, it wouldn't shock me at all if they like McCarthy.
Same.
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problem is that if the QBs go #1, #2, #3, there will be a bidding war for JJM, which of course will just drive up the price.
AZ wants MHJ according to all reports I've seen they aren't going to trade down if he is there. And I think they'd be stupid to do so. He's the only surefire pick in this draft imo.
I think so as well. That could mean that none of the teams drafting #1 - #4 would trade unless perhaps they were offered a "historic" amount. That would mean our only option would be to trade with SD, which might be possible because they would still get their choice of Nabers, Odunze, Alt, or whoever else they want.
Just my take.
I've always felt LA at the #5 slot would probably be the only available pick to be moved as well. Williams, Daniels, Maye and Harrison Jr. seem like a good lock to me for those teams holding the picks now.
The Giants like all 4 and we know that or they wouldn’t have put all gears ahead on going for a QB at this point
They may like 1 over the other or be willing to move up for 1 or not see much of a difference to part with assets
That we dont know
And if they are worth their salt at evaluating than they shouldn’t even be completed in their process. The Giants have spent 15 minutes with these guys. Long way to go
Pro Days, 1 on 1s, Dinner with the Maras etc
And Schoen has basically screamed from rooftops how important a Tua meeting /talking to these QBs is
That said, it wouldn't shock me at all if they like McCarthy.
Does it really help their case though? What changes? The Bears, Commanders and Pats don't care they hold the cards. And how does it help us get Maye if Washington, Chicago and NE thinks we want JJM? Conversely, if a team behind us that wants a qb thinks we like JJM how does that help us? They would trade ahead of us for JJM or DM. How does a smokescreen of liking JJM help with that? I don't see the utility of a JJM smokescreen myself. I think it's all speculation, the only real info points toward the fact that the Giants want a QB and believe there are 4 top tier qbs so they will get one. The order of preference will not be known and may never be known if we wait to take the 4th (which is what I would do unless we could trade up for JD at 3).
The Giants like all 4 and we know that or they wouldn’t have put all gears ahead on going for a QB at this point
They may like 1 over the other or be willing to move up for 1 or not see much of a difference to part with assets
That we dont know
And if they are worth their salt at evaluating than they shouldn’t even be completed in their process. The Giants have spent 15 minutes with these guys. Long way to go
Pro Days, 1 on 1s, Dinner with the Maras etc
And Schoen has basically screamed from rooftops how important a Tua meeting /talking to these QBs is
Agreed 100%.
Every single year, "OMG, he went before he was supposed to? How could they draft X before Y?"
I remember a lot of us thought Detroit's draft was bad.
My point here is don't assume teams think Maye is 4th.
I guess it could incentivize a team to trade up to 3 for JJM if it's him and Maye on the board. I don't see that happening though. 3 QBs will go 1-2-3 whether NE trades down or not, I don't see us leaking a smokescreen about JJM changing who goes top 3 really. I guess it helps if NE likes JJM over Maye. If they think we like JJM over Maye too then they won't trade down with JJM and Maye on the board they will just take JJM. That's the only route I see a JJM smokescreen being useful. Maybe that's the cause and effect here?
Every single year, "OMG, he went before he was supposed to? How could they draft X before Y?"
I remember a lot of us thought Detroit's draft was bad.
My point here is don't assume teams think Maye is 4th.
Sorry I had to type it out to break down the one scenario where liking Maye and leaking smoke about JJM could be helpful. Now I see it. Maybe Schoen knows the Pats like JJM over Maye and if they think Schoen likes JJM too they will take JJM over Maye leaving Maye as the 4th qb for us. I'm fine with either of them myself. I prefer JJM, but they both are very promising to me. As long as we don't trade up to 3 for anyone but JD then I'm happy to take Maye or JJM with a slight tradeup.
Every single year, "OMG, he went before he was supposed to? How could they draft X before Y?"
I remember a lot of us thought Detroit's draft was bad.
My point here is don't assume teams think Maye is 4th.
So in order to get 3rd overall, 2200 pts, the Jets gave up:
1) 1600 pts - 6th overall
2) 530 pts - 37th overall
3) 410 pts - 49th overall
4) ~200 pts - 2019 2nd rounder (devalued by one round)
So ~ 2700 pts to get the pick valued at 2200 pts (3rd overall). A 500 pt premium or ~ a 25% premium relative to the JJ chart.
A 25% premium on the 4th overall pick from the 6th overall, 1800 pts would be 2250 pts, so a 450 pt premium. Which would be the Giants second 2nd rounder or so.
I doubt the Giants can move up from 6th to 4th without at least giving up the Leonard Williams / Seattle 2nd rounder.
I believe the key right now to the QB order is Daniels's pro day.
If he weighs in at 205+ and runs 4.5 or <, I contend that locks him in at #2. Minimum.
The fact he didn't weigh in at the Combine perhaps created a short term red flag.
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Because conventional wisdom says there is no chance Maye lasts beyond the third spot. If he does, it's easier for the Giants to trade up for him.
I believe the key right now to the QB order is Daniels's pro day.
If he weighs in at 205+ and runs 4.5 or <, I contend that locks him in at #2. Minimum.
The fact he didn't weigh in at the Combine perhaps created a short term red flag.
I'd say 215+, but agreed on other points
JJ is not slender and he’s 2+ years younger than Daniels.
I think its funny someone else stated Giants can't keep a secret.. Hmm, I have seen reports the Giants love Maye, JJM, Daniels, won't take a QB at 6, are trying to move up into top 3, could trade down, is interested in OT, loves the WR's....
Giants secret apparently is that EVERYONE is of interest!
Well when you need everything...
He’s the perfect fit for that offense.
Maye has connections to him apparently but push come to shove, I think they take Daniels.
That means Maye and JJ would be available at 3.
What NE does in FA will dictate what they do on draft night.
This quote is used every offseason.
The problem is that it never turns out to be a lie.
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Over The Cap Trade Calculator - ( New Window )
--------------------------- Over The Cap Trade Calculator - ( New Window )
OTC and I see the PFN link was previously addressed.
La Canfora is pretty good.
Say what?
First off, La Canfora is turrible. The Schoen regime is pretty tight lipped, unlike the previous one. Every team gets obsessed with players. What's your point?
Why it makes sense?
-Arizona drops only 2 spots and can still add a high level WR while netting more draft capital.
-NYG ensures any of Daniels, Maye or McCarthy without worrying about being leapfrogged by MIN, ATL, DEN, LAV or anyone else.
Good point. The only thing is this: Arizona has something like 13 draft picks this year already (see HERE). They might want something for next year as much, if not more than this year.
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4th Overall (Cardinals 1st) is 1800 pts
6th Overall (Giants 1st) is 1600 pts
“On paper” adding the Giants 70th overall (3rd rounder) 240 pts, should be enough.
Recognizing the “QB Premium”, it will likely take at least one of the Giants 2nd rounders (39th overall is 510 pts; 47th overall is 430 pts) to sweeten the deal. Probably will take one of the 2nd rounders and the 3rd rounder.
How the Giants get a QB in the 2024 very well will may make or break Schoen and Daboll. Don’t screw it up!
Value Of Giants Picks On JJ Chart - ( New Window )
The Cards are stacked with picks in this years draft. 13 of them to be precise. Wouldn't shock me is the cost is a 2025 2 and maybe a swap of one of our 2's for one of their 3's this year(they have 3)
I'd do that deal. Makes sense for both sides. Give Zona our 47th pick (the second 2nd rounder acquired for Leo Williams from Seattle) for the first of their three 3rd rounders (#66 overall or #71 overall). They've got #s 66, 71, and 90 overall in that round.
Not if New England takes MHJr at 3 (they could sign a QB in free agency such Baker Mayfield). They'll prolly be content with one of either Odunze or Nabers with the Chargers prolly trading out of 4 to a team that wants JJ McCarthy as their QB.
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likely have to massively overpay to move up to #4 because we'd be moving up for a QB and because dropping to #6 means that Arizona would likely lose out on MHJ. They will want a lot extra as compensation for that loss.
Not if New England takes MHJr at 3 (they could sign a QB in free agency such Baker Mayfield). They'll prolly be content with one of either Odunze or Nabers with the Chargers prolly trading out of 4 to a team that wants JJ McCarthy as their QB.
If NE signs a FA QB, do you really believe they would pass up two first round draft choices, plus just to take one of the three wide receivers who are stacked with virtually the same rating? I was NE in that situation, I would take the loop and draft, whichever of the three wide receivers made it to the bottom of the top 10.
He’s the perfect fit for that offense.
Maye has connections to him apparently but push come to shove, I think they take Daniels.
That means Maye and JJ would be available at 3.
What NE does in FA will dictate what they do on draft night.
+1