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Brian Burns Trade

Rickey213 : 3/9/2024 11:19 am
Have a very good and reputable source that Giants are talking to the Panthers about trading for Brian Burns in exchange for the 47th pick. Burns is looking for $30m annually over 4 years with $90+ guaranteed. Giants have the best offer right now, but Panthers are dragging their feet. Burns is tagged right now but looking to be traded
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I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Go Terps : 3/9/2024 3:42 pm : link
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Chris684 : 3/9/2024 3:45 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


Burns is also top notch quality. Reliable and in his prime. This would be a KMac-Plax-Rolle type FA acquisition.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 3:45 pm : link
In comment 16422720 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16422711 GiantGrit said:


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In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:


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In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


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don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.



Or he gets hurt again and signs for peanuts next year on a prove it, one year deal. Trade him now and just recoup some value, whatever it is. I would gladly take a 4th for him



if the worst happens and he gets hurt and signs for peanuts, i have no issue being the team that signs a 24 year old edge rusher with ability for peanuts. that seems pretty low risk to me. whoever you draft in the 4th round could get hurt too.


Agree to disagree. Best ability is availability. He's young and oft injured, I'm not expecting that to get better in a sport like football.

He makes more sense for a contender who needs a good 3rd ER
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:49 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


Agreed, besides for a guy like Onwenu the likes of which rarely ever hits FA (an ol on upward trajectory not yet in his prime) I'd pay whatever it takes go get him.
RE: 47  
81_Great_Dane : 3/9/2024 3:55 pm : link
In comment 16422465 Hilary said:
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At 47 you get a very good player low cap number controlled for 4 years. You don't trade that pick for a high priced player. Horrible idea.
At 47 you might get that guy. The draft is a crapshoot.
RE: RE: 47  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:59 pm : link
In comment 16422752 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 16422465 Hilary said:


Quote:


At 47 you get a very good player low cap number controlled for 4 years. You don't trade that pick for a high priced player. Horrible idea.

At 47 you might get that guy. The draft is a crapshoot.


The odds of getting a guy anywhere near Burns' level for pick 47 are very, very low.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Premium Positions  
rich in DC : 3/9/2024 4:05 pm : link
In comment 16422717 bceagle05 said:
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In comment 16422697 Breeze_94 said:


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Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB


That’s what the sixth pick is likely gonna come down to. Do you like a guy like McCarthy enough to pass on a #1 WR? Tough call.


They might not get a unquestioned #1 WR- but they can likely get a very good #2 with upside in the 2nd round- WR is one of the deep positions this year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Premium Positions  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:10 pm : link
In comment 16422759 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16422717 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422697 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB


That’s what the sixth pick is likely gonna come down to. Do you like a guy like McCarthy enough to pass on a #1 WR? Tough call.



They might not get a unquestioned #1 WR- but they can likely get a very good #2 with upside in the 2nd round- WR is one of the deep positions this year.


There are several big fast guys that have the potential to be #1s: Adonai Mitchell, Troy Franklin and Xavier Leggette each fit the bill and would be excellent alternatives to Odunze. If he even makes it to our pick.
This is not cap related for Panthers  
ZogZerg : 3/9/2024 4:13 pm : link
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.
Burns and Onenwu  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 4:13 pm : link
Plus Maye/JJM and a WR would be a hell of an offseason
RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:18 pm : link
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.


He probably wants out, wants a longer contract, in addition to the Panthers not having much cap room and having a bare cupboard of picks this year. Could be a perfect storm for us to get a blue chip pass rusher and building block of our defense.
RE: Burns and Onenwu  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:20 pm : link
In comment 16422766 ajr2456 said:
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Plus Maye/JJM and a WR would be a hell of an offseason


Absolutely! Add in a guy like Murphy Bunting and Autry for DE. Then we are really talking and would be able to draft bpa after QB WR in first two rounds.
Hopefully they can get this done and  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 4:39 pm : link
Get Darious Williams signed before Monday at Noon. Would be awesome to go into the start of legal tampering with your Edge rusher & starting CB taken care of.
RE: Hopefully they can get this done and  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:46 pm : link
In comment 16422794 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Get Darious Williams signed before Monday at Noon. Would be awesome to go into the start of legal tampering with your Edge rusher & starting CB taken care of.


Upon further review, I think Darious Williams would be a better signing than Murphy Bunting. Williams has shown he can play well on the outside, Murphy Bunting hasn't really shown that.
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 4:56 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


i feel like ive spent a decade trying to explain this concept.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:01 pm : link
In comment 16422743 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Best ability is availability.


what guarantee is there that any rookie will have ability or availability? dj davidson, mckethan, beavers all shredded ACL's year 1. robinson and ezeudu also ended up on IR as rookies.

i totally get not wanting to invest in ojulari but moving him saves 1.5m. that's it. and in 10+ picks from 2 deeper drafts im pretty sure this regime had only drafted 1 starter day 3 (mcfadden). so the expectation with any day 3 pick shouldnt be that much higher than a waiver claim like hodgins or mccloud.
RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:03 pm : link
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.


it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.
So if we get him for #47 and the type of $ we're talking about  
Stu11 : 3/9/2024 5:09 pm : link
We basically turned Leonard Williams into a younger better Leonard Williams. I don't see a problem with that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
90.Cal : 3/9/2024 5:18 pm : link
In comment 16422524 Capt. Don said:
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In comment 16422510 90.Cal said:


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In comment 16422479 Capt. Don said:


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In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


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In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


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Try reading my post out loud and slowly.



“It would FOR SURE be north of $25M but I hope it’s less than $30M”

Just brilliant. Pinching pennies on a $100M+ deal is how you lose out on your target but ok that xtra $3M a year is soooo important



$30M - $25M = $5M...where did you get $3M?

And I said, "I hope." I didn't say that was a deal breaker. Calm yourself.


You said North of $25M… that means more than $25M, not equal to $25M…

and you said less than $30M… that means LESS than $30M, inot equal to $30M

You aren’t going to complain if it’s $26M-$29M but $30M is too much… lol… again listen to yourself, it just sounds dumb to me but oh well I’ll leave it alone now
Impact players  
Dave on the UWS : 3/9/2024 5:23 pm : link
you win with Impact players.
How many do we have? 2, maybe 3. This guy has been to pro bowls (plural). Make the deal!
RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 5:27 pm : link
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.

Not to mention, they probably have the league's worst roster and don't have a frp.
RE: So if we get him for #47 and the type of $ we're talking about  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:33 pm : link
In comment 16422816 Stu11 said:
Quote:
We basically turned Leonard Williams into a younger better Leonard Williams. I don't see a problem with that.


Leonard Williams was never a premier two way pass rusher, so we upgrade big time.
RE: Impact players  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:40 pm : link
In comment 16422821 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
you win with Impact players.
How many do we have? 2, maybe 3. This guy has been to pro bowls (plural). Make the deal!


Plus, he is just entering his prime. Would be an amazing move for pick 47, id be shocked he didn't fetch more although I wouldn't trade more either
Still hung up on  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 5:44 pm : link
JonC's comment about "watch Danielle Hunter".
RE: Still hung up on  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:45 pm : link
In comment 16422838 bc4life said:
Quote:
JonC's comment about "watch Danielle Hunter".


He is too old to give a longer deal to in which we could backload money into the post DJ era. It wouldn't make sense imo.
I'd  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 5:46 pm : link
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.
RE: I'd  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:50 pm : link
In comment 16422841 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.


Khalil Mack was traded to the Chargers from the Bears for a future 2nd and future 6th. Mack was older, but established as an elite game wrecker also. The original poster mentioned pick 47 only, not a future 2nd.
RE: RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:53 pm : link
In comment 16422824 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.


Not to mention, they probably have the league's worst roster and don't have a frp.


yep. this was from 1 week ago - writing appears on the wall that he's getting dealt somewhere before UFA:

JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
I’m told the #Panthers informed Brian Burns during the Combine this past week that they aren’t continuing contract talks—at this time, per source.
RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:56 pm : link
In comment 16422841 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.


im also surprised if that's the price, but you have to remember we are right at the start of FA. any team negotiating with Carolina can easily pull the Danielle Hunter/Bryce Huff/Christian Wilkins card and say "I can just go pay 1 of those guys and save my pick".

Looks like he's already a NYG with the way Josina is full immersed in the details of his saga, but her reporting from a couple days supports #47 as possibly in line with where the market is right now:

JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
Regarding Carolina’s current situation with Brian Burns, a league source told me in their opinion, that the #Panthers should adapt better to present circumstances in order to potentially consummate a trade. The source said in their view it’s a double whammy to pay huge money for a player, and also give huge Draft compensation to the other team for a deal. They added, the time to get more draft picks was when the player has years left on their deal; but if the player is in their last year—the other team has to be prepared to keep the player, or take less.

I’ve heard some league sources say third-round compensation is fair for Burns if the acquiring team is also giving him a long-term deal, but that asking for 1-Plus is definitely too much for them.
I heard the Rams  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 5:58 pm : link
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?
RE: I heard the Rams  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 6:06 pm : link
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:
Quote:
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?


I had heard a while ago it was two 1sts. Can't remember where I saw it, but recently read it was two 1sts and a 2nd.
Not sure what the right amount is  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:07 pm : link
But he'd give us what we hoped for re: Ojulari. Consistent with hew DC's approach, ability to get consistent pressure with 4 rushers. He would make Thibs better.

And the nature of FA is to overpay. The question is how much...

RE: I heard the Rams  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:07 pm : link
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:
Quote:
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?


that was according to shefter reporting 2 trade deadlines ago.

remember at that time he was 23 years old in the midst of a pro bowl season with 1.5 years of control left before FA.
Sources: Rams offered trades for Brian Burns, Christian McCaffrey - ( New Window )
Big Rick If true  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:08 pm : link
That's insane. Especially Panthers turning that down.
RE: Not sure what the right amount is  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16422864 bc4life said:
Quote:
But he'd give us what we hoped for re: Ojulari. Consistent with hew DC's approach, ability to get consistent pressure with 4 rushers. He would make Thibs better.

And the nature of FA is to overpay. The question is how much...


he would give us what we hoped for w/ thibs. not saying thibs cant still reach that level but burns is a better player than thibs by a healthy margin.
Here ya Eric  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:09 pm : link
But 2 firsts?
Also have to keep in mind  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:11 pm : link
how Thibs was used. Thibs.

11 sacks, got held a lot.
RE: Here ya Eric  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:13 pm : link
In comment 16422869 bc4life said:
Quote:
But 2 firsts?


they gave up 2 firsts for jalen ramsey at a similar age/situation.

they gave up a 2nd and 3rd for von miller as a rental in 2021.

dolphins gave up a 1st and 4th for bradley chubb in 2022 and he was older than Burns (also not as good).

pro bowl pass rushers on their rookie deals are probably the hardest thing to get other than qbs.
RE: Also have to keep in mind  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:23 pm : link
In comment 16422870 bc4life said:
Quote:
how Thibs was used. Thibs.

11 sacks, got held a lot.


like thibs burns probably got held a lot too, he was the best guy on that defense by a pretty big margin but still put up a bigger win rate. he started in the prior 2 pro bowls for a reason.

So what does Thibs need to do  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:34 pm : link
to level up?
RE: RE: I heard the Rams  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 6:39 pm : link
In comment 16422865 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:


Quote:


offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?



that was according to shefter reporting 2 trade deadlines ago.

remember at that time he was 23 years old in the midst of a pro bowl season with 1.5 years of control left before FA. Sources: Rams offered trades for Brian Burns, Christian McCaffrey - ( New Window )


That's the thing, this is a trade and sign situation like the Sweat to Bears deal. Compensation would presumably be similar like the pick 47 mentioned before because we don't get half a season of him on his rookie deal.
RE: So what does Thibs need to do  
JayBinQueens : 3/9/2024 7:03 pm : link
In comment 16422891 bc4life said:
Quote:
to level up?


Line up opposite burns lol
We have a new Dcoordinator  
Giantimistic : 3/9/2024 7:07 pm : link
That from what has been posted likes to get pressure with his front 4. We therefore need a pressure generating front 4. Check on Dex. Thibs can do it and prob will excel with a new coordinator. We need a big signing because we are drafting a qb or wr.
RE: So what does Thibs need to do  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 7:12 pm : link
In comment 16422891 bc4life said:
Quote:
to level up?


probably just be more consistent he's shown all the traits, but part of that is likely environmental. he and burns would both probably be better off playing fewer than the 87% of snaps they played last year and they would definitely both be better off getting to play from ahead more as opposed to behind all the time.

other top edges play more like 75% snaps - so they get more rest - and any of the ones on good teams get more obvious pass situations/fewer run snaps.
RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
ZogZerg : 3/9/2024 9:12 pm : link
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.


No it's not. They have plenty of money.
They can easily move money to future years.
If they want him and he wants them it's not for one year.
I would have no problem of them trading for a young edge rusher.  
St. Jimmy : 3/9/2024 9:17 pm : link
The defense needs more pass rush. They better be right if they do it and sign him to a big contract.
Joel Corry prediction…..  
rasbutant : 3/9/2024 9:42 pm : link
For Brian Burns. Joel has been very accurate with his guesses.

Contract package: $150 million/5 years ($30 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $105 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $82.5 million
First three years: $95 million

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 10:16 pm : link
In comment 16422811 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422743 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


Best ability is availability.



what guarantee is there that any rookie will have ability or availability? dj davidson, mckethan, beavers all shredded ACL's year 1. robinson and ezeudu also ended up on IR as rookies.

i totally get not wanting to invest in ojulari but moving him saves 1.5m. that's it. and in 10+ picks from 2 deeper drafts im pretty sure this regime had only drafted 1 starter day 3 (mcfadden). so the expectation with any day 3 pick shouldnt be that much higher than a waiver claim like hodgins or mccloud.


With that logic they should just trade all day 3 picks. I never once mentioned the savings because its not about that, If I know I'm not resigning him long term and we're not a perennial playoff team I'd rather trade him. Maybe they keep him and he plays well and they can try trading him at the deadline.

He could put up 12 sacks and I'm still not resigning him because he'll get a multi year deal from someone else.

Its not the end of the world if they keep him, just saying what I would do.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 10:36 pm : link
In comment 16423028 GiantGrit said:
Quote:

He could put up 12 sacks and I'm still not resigning him because he'll get a multi year deal from someone else.


i agree - but in that instance they got 12 sacks + probably a solid comp pick (3rd/4th).

i think its worth a 2m flier to get that upside. in a weak draft im not cashing in a cheap edge with talent for a non-top 100 pick.
RE: You ask for $30M  
Fifty Six : 3/9/2024 11:34 pm : link
In comment 16422431 90.Cal said:
Quote:
You get $25M, it’s called a negotiation. Let’s not shoot down the asking price. Burns would be exactly what this defense needs.


You beat me to it. Of course a players first ask would he the h8gh end of his perceived value. That's how you start negotiations
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