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Brian Burns Trade

Rickey213 : 3/9/2024 11:19 am
Have a very good and reputable source that Giants are talking to the Panthers about trading for Brian Burns in exchange for the 47th pick. Burns is looking for $30m annually over 4 years with $90+ guaranteed. Giants have the best offer right now, but Panthers are dragging their feet. Burns is tagged right now but looking to be traded
$30 Million/per?  
BigBlueShock : 3/9/2024 11:21 am : link
Yeah, screw that. Burns is very good but that’s ludicrous
03/24  
DCPollaro : 3/9/2024 11:23 am : link
.
Ok buddy  
jvm52106 : 3/9/2024 11:25 am : link
if you are legit- message Eric with your credentials..
Great thread title  
UConn4523 : 3/9/2024 11:26 am : link
.
RE: $30 Million/per?  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:26 am : link
In comment 16422387 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Yeah, screw that. Burns is very good but that’s ludicrous


that's where the price for top pass rushers is going. he's already tagged at 24m and his tag next year would be closer to 30m, so his 2 trajectory is already getting close to 30m aav guaranteed before a new deal.

justin madubuike just got 98m over 4 years and 75.5m of it guaranteed. he will make 53.5m in the first 2 years at a position cheaper than edge.

id personally do the 47th pick without blinking i think. burns is a total stud. wanted him badly before he got taken ahead of lawrence.
Would be a massive talent upgrade  
JB_in_DC : 3/9/2024 11:26 am : link
Would be very similar to what the Bears got for Mack two years ago (the 48 overall and a 6th).

Dolphins gave up a 1st and a 4th for Chubb and a 5th in Nov 22.
Eric mentioned they might trade for a pass rusher  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 11:27 am : link
so I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this. Perhaps he heard something too.
RE: Ok buddy  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:27 am : link
In comment 16422391 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
if you are legit- message Eric with your credentials..


eric was hinting yesterday that the giants were in the trade market for edge. i havent seen him validate any suggestions of who they might be going for and this could be bs inspired by that but who knows.
RE: Would be a massive talent upgrade  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:30 am : link
In comment 16422395 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
Would be very similar to what the Bears got for Mack two years ago (the 48 overall and a 6th).

Dolphins gave up a 1st and a 4th for Chubb and a 5th in Nov 22.


chase young returned a 3rd from SF
montez sweat returned a 2nd from CHI and got a 4x98m

burns is better than both and would require a bigger contract than both so i can see why CAR would hope to get more in trade comp.

but this is a harder time of year to make a trade like that since any team could just go to UFA and sign whoever they want to a big deal without giving up any picks.
RE: Would be a massive talent upgrade  
JB_in_DC : 3/9/2024 11:31 am : link
In comment 16422395 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
Would be very similar to what the Bears got for Mack two years ago (the 48 overall and a 6th).

Dolphins gave up a 1st and a 4th for Chubb and a 5th in Nov 22.


Another comp: Montez Sweat was traded for the 40 overall.
Burns is a very good player...  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 11:31 am : link
but an ask of $30M per makes you wonder if Team Burns is using illegal substances from one of the drug cartels...

Hard, hard pass.
The concept of the trade  
Dave on the UWS : 3/9/2024 11:31 am : link
makes sense. But 30 million per?? For Burns? Good player but not worth this coin.
RE: RE: $30 Million/per?  
BigBlueShock : 3/9/2024 11:32 am : link
In comment 16422394 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422387 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


Yeah, screw that. Burns is very good but that’s ludicrous



that's where the price for top pass rushers is going. he's already tagged at 24m and his tag next year would be closer to 30m, so his 2 trajectory is already getting close to 30m aav guaranteed before a new deal.

justin madubuike just got 98m over 4 years and 75.5m of it guaranteed. he will make 53.5m in the first 2 years at a position cheaper than edge.

id personally do the 47th pick without blinking i think. burns is a total stud. wanted him badly before he got taken ahead of lawrence.

I understand that’s where edge prices are heading. And I’m completely against paying Burns that much. This is why it’s important to add edge in the draft
RE: Burns is a very good player...  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:33 am : link
In comment 16422406 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but an ask of $30M per makes you wonder if Team Burns is using illegal substances from one of the drug cartels...

Hard, hard pass.


the average aav of the current top 5 edges is 27m.

why wouldn't any player on a franchise tag ask for the higher end of that average?
I would like this  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2024 11:33 am : link
A lot.

I complained about the allocation of money to a 31 yr old CB earlier.

Now if you told me they pass on paying for McKinney, and use the flexibility that grants them for a move like this - for a 25 year old impact pass rusher - that I would not mind at all.

Burns is a stud.
If X and Saquon leave  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 11:34 am : link
who exactly are we paying going forward? Dex and Thomas? Okereke? Not much big money on the books. This is a premium position so I’d imagine the Giants would overpay a little for a 25-year-old stud.
RE: I would like this  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:35 am : link
In comment 16422412 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
A lot.

I complained about the allocation of money to a 31 yr old CB earlier.

Now if you told me they pass on paying for McKinney, and use the flexibility that grants them for a move like this - for a 25 year old impact pass rusher - that I would not mind at all.

Burns is a stud.


they have plenty of money to add/retain multiple players. they are flush with cap space in the future.

they are entering UFA this year with twice as much spending power as last year, maybe more.
You know who will be paying that $30million/year...  
ConsistentGiantFan : 3/9/2024 11:35 am : link
not the team...
the fans through higher ticket prices, higher TV subscription prices, and more annoying commercials per minute.
RE: If X and Saquon leave  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:36 am : link
In comment 16422414 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
who exactly are we paying going forward? Dex and Thomas? Okereke? Not much big money on the books. This is a premium position so I’d imagine the Giants would overpay a little for a 25-year-old stud.


bingo. edge is the 2nd most expensive position other than QB.

if you want an impact edge this is what it will cost and you arent finding a better 25 year old edge than burns.
Aside from the contract demands, the biggest  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 11:38 am : link
reason why I can't see this happening is that the Giants need to hold onto those 2nds ahead of the draft in case an opportunity arises to move up and get their guy at QB.
TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
Capt. Don : 3/9/2024 11:39 am : link
Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.
RE: RE: Burns is a very good player...  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 11:39 am : link
In comment 16422409 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422406 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but an ask of $30M per makes you wonder if Team Burns is using illegal substances from one of the drug cartels...

Hard, hard pass.



the average aav of the current top 5 edges is 27m.

why wouldn't any player on a franchise tag ask for the higher end of that average?


I understand the circumstances and Team Burns can certainly ask for that amount. You are correct. I wrote before I thought.

But I don't consider this guy a top ten edge. He's right on the outside looking in. That's what I should have said...
RE: Aside from the contract demands, the biggest  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:40 am : link
In comment 16422419 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
reason why I can't see this happening is that the Giants need to hold onto those 2nds ahead of the draft in case an opportunity arises to move up and get their guy at QB.


jmo but i think it's more likely they would use the 2025 first to move up since they dont have a lot of picks this year.

i also think they may need to if they are going to match offers from other teams farther back who will have to put their 2025 firsts on the table. minnesota and denver being 2 examples whose trade packages may look a lot better than nyg even though the teams trading back would go down farther.
RE: Eric mentioned they might trade for a pass rusher  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 11:41 am : link
In comment 16422396 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
so I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this. Perhaps he heard something too.


I would not dismiss this.
RE: RE: I would like this  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2024 11:41 am : link
In comment 16422415 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422412 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


A lot.

I complained about the allocation of money to a 31 yr old CB earlier.

Now if you told me they pass on paying for McKinney, and use the flexibility that grants them for a move like this - for a 25 year old impact pass rusher - that I would not mind at all.

Burns is a stud.



they have plenty of money to add/retain multiple players. they are flush with cap space in the future.

they are entering UFA this year with twice as much spending power as last year, maybe more.


Not disagreeing with that. But they still need to pick and choose where they are going to allocate resources. It’s amazing how people don’t remember what got the giants into the mess they were in a few years ago.

$100m in cap space dries up pretty fast when the average contract for a strong starter at most positions is now well above $10m and exceeding $20m for good talent at premium positions.
You ask for $30M  
90.Cal : 3/9/2024 11:43 am : link
You get $25M, it’s called a negotiation. Let’s not shoot down the asking price. Burns would be exactly what this defense needs.
RE: RE: RE: Burns is a very good player...  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:45 am : link
In comment 16422422 bw in dc said:
Quote:

But I don't consider this guy a top ten edge. He's right on the outside looking in. That's what I should have said...


this is the right question / way to look at it. the team that pays him close to 30m is a team that thinks he is a top 5-10 edge.

i think he's pretty clearly behind nick bosa and myles garrett, but other than those 2 i think there's an argument id take him over joey bosa (turning 29) and tj watt (turning 30).

he is clustered in the next group down with josh allen, montez sweat, rashan gary, etc. both drafted in 2019 there are very few players league wide who will look in any way comparable to nick bosa in a chart like this and burns has had very little help around him in CAR. i would definitely take burns over montez sweat (who just got 24.5m aav and 73m gtd).

If the cap keeps increasing which seems entirely  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 11:47 am : link
plausible, then ~$25-30M for an elite edge could look pretty good in a couple of years.
RE: RE: RE: I would like this  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 11:48 am : link
In comment 16422427 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:


Not disagreeing with that. But they still need to pick and choose where they are going to allocate resources. It’s amazing how people don’t remember what got the giants into the mess they were in a few years ago.

$100m in cap space dries up pretty fast when the average contract for a strong starter at most positions is now well above $10m and exceeding $20m for good talent at premium positions.


no disagreement here either - my point is simply that let's say they see 2 slots for long term players at high AAV's they want to fill.

in FA they could go for someone like hunter at a price tag that's indifferent from whatever burns gets. but they'd be buying a player with a lot more usage at age 30.

brian burns at 25 is perhaps the best young player at a premium position who could change teams this offseason. i very much see the appeal to being willing to give him a massive contract if the trade cost is below a 1st round pick. 2 years ago LAR offered 2 firsts for him.
Watch  
JonC : 3/9/2024 11:51 am : link
Danielle Hunter.
Helluva player ...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/9/2024 11:51 am : link
...
RE: RE: Eric mentioned they might trade for a pass rusher  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 11:52 am : link
In comment 16422424 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16422396 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


so I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this. Perhaps he heard something too.



I would not dismiss this.



^^^^^^
Wow  
UberAlias : 3/9/2024 11:53 am : link
Talk about a splash move.
RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
90.Cal : 3/9/2024 11:53 am : link
In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.


So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.
Smart Tough Dependable  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 11:55 am : link
And only 25. Meets Schoen's criteria
If true  
Jaenyg : 3/9/2024 11:55 am : link
47 won’t be helping us move up from 6…
RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
robbieballs2003 : 3/9/2024 11:55 am : link
In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:
Quote:
In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

That's not what he said.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.



So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.
RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
robbieballs2003 : 3/9/2024 11:56 am : link
In comment 16422448 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


Quote:


In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.



So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.



I thought I scrolled down. That's not what he said.
No  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 11:57 am : link
way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.
RE: If true  
Giants1986 : 3/9/2024 11:58 am : link
In comment 16422447 Jaenyg said:
Quote:
47 won’t be helping us move up from 6…
. They’re dangling next years 1 to move up
RE: RE: If true  
Giants1986 : 3/9/2024 11:58 am : link
In comment 16422454 Giants1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422447 Jaenyg said:


Quote:


47 won’t be helping us move up from 6…

Should say maybe, They’re dangling next years 1 to move up
RE: Watch  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 11:59 am : link
In comment 16422439 JonC said:
Quote:
Danielle Hunter.


No interest in him either. Expensive FA signings also rarely work out.
Highly doubt it  
ZogZerg : 3/9/2024 12:00 pm : link
.
RE: No  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 12:01 pm : link
In comment 16422452 AcidTest said:
Quote:
way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.


He's young, borderline elite and is always on the field. Generally I lean your direction with trading picks but this would be a rare exception.
RE: Watch  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 12:02 pm : link
In comment 16422439 JonC said:
Quote:
Danielle Hunter.


Very interesting
RE: RE: Watch  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 12:02 pm : link
In comment 16422457 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 16422439 JonC said:


Quote:


Danielle Hunter.



No interest in him either. Expensive FA signings also rarely work out.


I tend to agree.

He's a monster. But he is turning 30 during next season.

If you can get comfortable with that piece, you are looking at possibly getting 2-3 high level years from a guy on a path to Canton.



47  
Hilary : 3/9/2024 12:03 pm : link
At 47 you get a very good player low cap number controlled for 4 years. You don't trade that pick for a high priced player. Horrible idea.
RE: No  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 12:03 pm : link
In comment 16422452 AcidTest said:
Quote:
way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.


the amount of players in the entirety of the last 2 nfl drafts as good as burns is 1 player - aidan hutchinson who went 2nd overall.

how is it reasonable to expect to find a player like that in round 2?

in round 2 a good pick is an ojulari type. how has that gone?
.  
Swizzle : 3/9/2024 12:03 pm : link
I'm hearing the deal is verbally agreed to. The only obstacle is the new contract.
Eric on LI  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 12:04 pm : link
Gets it.
If we’ve learned anything recently  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 12:09 pm : link
it’s that the Giants can spare a draft pick here or there. Let Joe Schoen cook!
Eric on LI  
The Dude : 3/9/2024 12:09 pm : link
is correct. It's fairly rare in the NFL but Burns is the type of player that if available, you trade for.



I absolutely love asshatSZN.
Would feel better about this  
M.S. : 3/9/2024 12:10 pm : link
If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!
RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
Capt. Don : 3/9/2024 12:11 pm : link
In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:
Quote:
In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.



So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.


Try reading my post out loud and slowly.
RE: Would feel better about this  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 12:11 pm : link
In comment 16422478 M.S. said:
Quote:
If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!


where were the dolphins as a franchise when they traded for tyreek?

how has that worked out?
RE: Would feel better about this  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2024 12:12 pm : link
In comment 16422478 M.S. said:
Quote:
If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!


It’s not about “one piece from winning”. You’re getting an impact player at a premium position who is young, and if the contract is agreed to, becomes part of the core for 4-5+ years - if not more. It’s a building block.
I don’t care about the details  
Giantimistic : 3/9/2024 12:13 pm : link
How much money, ect.

Give me a good, competitive football team that can enjoy every weekend and let the GM and money people do the rest.

Either trust the GM or don’t.

I am for getting impact players at impact positions.
RE: RE: Would feel better about this  
M.S. : 3/9/2024 12:13 pm : link
In comment 16422480 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422478 M.S. said:


Quote:


If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!



where were the dolphins as a franchise when they traded for tyreek?

how has that worked out?

Is that really an apples-to-apples comparison?
I like Burns in a deal for many reasons but the problem  
ThomasG : 3/9/2024 12:13 pm : link
is the timeline with no QB in hand. To be big spenders for top end talent yet nobody to actually produce points sounds reckless.
Ya blow most of our cap space  
Giant John : 3/9/2024 12:14 pm : link
On one player.
Works for me  
UConn4523 : 3/9/2024 12:14 pm : link
we need guaranteed talent and I don’t really care if it’s $25m or $30m - just make sure you get the player right.
Seems to be a lot of smoke  
OBJRoyal : 3/9/2024 12:14 pm : link
Around this if you know who follow on this site
Dex, Thibs, Burns  
Professor Falken : 3/9/2024 12:15 pm : link
would be a handful.
The NFL cap  
The Dude : 3/9/2024 12:15 pm : link
is now 255 million. For those comparing it to deals made in 2021.....it was 182 million back then...........
RE: RE: No  
BigBlueShock : 3/9/2024 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16422466 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422452 AcidTest said:


Quote:


way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.



the amount of players in the entirety of the last 2 nfl drafts as good as burns is 1 player - aidan hutchinson who went 2nd overall.

how is it reasonable to expect to find a player like that in round 2?

in round 2 a good pick is an ojulari type. how has that gone?

AcidTest LOVES, and I mean LOVES draft picks. He’s on every thread that involves potentially trading picks expressing his dismay at the thought
RE: RE: RE: Would feel better about this  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16422484 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16422480 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422478 M.S. said:


Quote:


If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!



where were the dolphins as a franchise when they traded for tyreek?

how has that worked out?


Is that really an apples-to-apples comparison?


there arent really any apples-to-apples comparisons when it comes to multiple time pro bowlers at premium positions at age 25.

the dolphins also traded for bradley chubb, though also not apples/apples because that was in-season and for a 1st rd pick.
RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
mfjmfj : 3/9/2024 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.


Based on cap increase the comparable contract for TJ Watt today would be roughly $39MM per year. So there is that.
RE: Dex, Thibs, Burns  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16422490 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
would be a handful.

Yep. Burns would make Thibs a better player, and Dex makes everyone better. Throw in Okereke and Banks and you have a nice foundation. Maybe they’ll surprise us and keep McKinney too.
RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
The Dude : 3/9/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16422479 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


Quote:


In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.



So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.



Try reading my post out loud and slowly.


I just mentioned, but the cap in 2021 was 182 million then....its 255 million now. And that matters.
RE: RE: Would feel better about this  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16422482 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422478 M.S. said:


Quote:


If we could honestly say the Giants were one elite EDGE guy away from winning it all.

But that’s not our team… not by a long shot!



It’s not about “one piece from winning”. You’re getting an impact player at a premium position who is young, and if the contract is agreed to, becomes part of the core for 4-5+ years - if not more. It’s a building block.


Exactly. And keep in mind with the sack total, he's played
A LOT of snaps with Carolina trailing which means less pass rush opportunities. Not that would change immediately here, just saying on a winning team I think those numbers can increase.
RE: RE: No  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16422466 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422452 AcidTest said:


Quote:


way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.



the amount of players in the entirety of the last 2 nfl drafts as good as burns is 1 player - aidan hutchinson who went 2nd overall.

how is it reasonable to expect to find a player like that in round 2?

in round 2 a good pick is an ojulari type. how has that gone?


Nobody disputes that Burns is a terrific player. But this type of trade should only be made by a team that is one or two players away from being a legitimate SB contender. That isn't the Giants. They should rebuild the team through the draft, and by signing players that don't count against the comp pick formula and off the practice squads of other teams.

Ojulari was another bad pick by DG. He slipped in the draft because of a preexisting injury history. He should be traded for whatever we can get for him, including a seventh.
This would be very good  
Chris684 : 3/9/2024 12:20 pm : link
And it tells us a few things.

We’re not targeting edge in round 1, obviously.

We don’t feel like we need 47 as a trade chip.

Burns is a stud.
RE: RE: RE: No  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 12:23 pm : link
In comment 16422494 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16422466 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422452 AcidTest said:


Quote:


way. That reeks of desperation from Schoen. Find someone in the draft with that pick, who will be much cheaper. Stop trading picks for players, especially those as expensive as Burns. That and constantly trading up are a failed way to build a team. It's also tantamount to admitting that you and your scouts suck at drafting, which means you should be fired.



the amount of players in the entirety of the last 2 nfl drafts as good as burns is 1 player - aidan hutchinson who went 2nd overall.

how is it reasonable to expect to find a player like that in round 2?

in round 2 a good pick is an ojulari type. how has that gone?


AcidTest LOVES, and I mean LOVES draft picks. He’s on every thread that involves potentially trading picks expressing his dismay at the thought


That's true, I do. I think bad teams should rebuild primarily through the draft, not be trading picks for players, unless it's a sixth or a seventh. (I was fine trading a seventh for Simmons.)
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 12:25 pm : link
RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
90.Cal : 3/9/2024 12:26 pm : link
In comment 16422479 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


Quote:


In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Granted, that was 3 years ago but TJ Watt is a DPOY level player. I dont see that in Burns.

It would be north for $25M/year for sure, but I would hope less than $30M.



So you would pay him north of $25M but not the $28M TJ Watt got? So for $1M-$3M you would risk losing an elite pass rusher? Doesn’t seem wise.



Try reading my post out loud and slowly.


“It would FOR SURE be north of $25M but I hope it’s less than $30M”

Just brilliant. Pinching pennies on a $100M+ deal is how you lose out on your target but ok that xtra $3M a year is soooo important
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 12:27 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
23m
Not about what Panthers would want as much as what Burns would want.
Was some buzz at Combine about whether Giants would look to add an Edge player via trade. Not the first time I’ve heard his name.

A caveat: Joe Schoen and Dan Morgan are close, too. So not outrageous. Expensive
Great, young Ends  
Toth029 : 3/9/2024 12:31 pm : link
Very rarely, if ever, reach FA.

Some have been excited over Bryce Huff and he's a fine player, but he's been situational and is awful against the run.

Burns is one of the best all around ends in the league. I'm very curious what the compensation is rumored to be.
He is a tremendous player  
Heisenberg : 3/9/2024 12:31 pm : link
would be fun to see him in blue
I remember with the past regime  
nygscott : 3/9/2024 12:33 pm : link
Judge talked about building back to front on D, so spending on X would've probably been a sure thing with them. It seems as though JS would rather build front to back if all these rumblings come to be.
RE: RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
Capt. Don : 3/9/2024 12:34 pm : link
In comment 16422510 90.Cal said:
Quote:
In comment 16422479 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


Quote:


In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


Quote:




Try reading my post out loud and slowly.



“It would FOR SURE be north of $25M but I hope it’s less than $30M”

Just brilliant. Pinching pennies on a $100M+ deal is how you lose out on your target but ok that xtra $3M a year is soooo important


$30M - $25M = $5M...where did you get $3M?

And I said, "I hope." I didn't say that was a deal breaker. Calm yourself.
 
ryanmkeane : 3/9/2024 12:34 pm : link
Count me in for this
His age is the key.....a 4 year window  
George from PA : 3/9/2024 12:34 pm : link
He seems to be a one man wreaking crew.....
This would be a better move  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 12:35 pm : link
Than signing Hunter or an average edge. He’s young and really good.
Burns is a nice player  
Sean : 3/9/2024 12:36 pm : link
But, he's not a game wrecker. I'd be careful paying that to him.
Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2024 12:36 pm : link
not Leonard Williams.
RE: 03/24  
Larry in Pencilvania : 3/9/2024 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:
Quote:
.


DEAN!!! How are you?
Keep in mind  
Sammo85 : 3/9/2024 12:40 pm : link
Thibs is still 2-3 yrs from payday so might make sense to spend up front next couple years on cap hit for complementary edge and premier rusher then redraft a talent in 2-3 yrs if you pay Thibs. Burns figures to have a solid 4-5 yr window in him as a premier rusher.
….  
ryanmkeane : 3/9/2024 12:40 pm : link
Burns on Thibodeaux on each edge…scary.
Bryce Huff  
Toth029 : 3/9/2024 12:41 pm : link
Is going to get close to $20M and he's never been a full time starter, and he's a one trick pony.

Burns is one of the best all around ends in the game.
RE: His age is the key.....a 4 year window  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2024 12:41 pm : link
In comment 16422526 George from PA said:
Quote:
He seems to be a one man wreaking crew.....


This. There’s a window to build one of the most dominant front 7’s in the league. Dex, KT, Okereke, Burns. By the time KT gets paid, the Burns contract will either look outstanding - or be easy (or easier) to shed.

Great example - look at the Dex contract. Already looks great, especially with the jump in cap. He’s making less than Madabuike - a guy he’s much better than IMO.

Toth029  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 12:41 pm : link
2024 & 2025 2nd's would be my wild guess.
 
ryanmkeane : 3/9/2024 12:42 pm : link
Burns would make sense if they plan on starting the clock over on QB and tend to look further at WR and OL in the draft
It also lends credence  
Sammo85 : 3/9/2024 12:42 pm : link
To the plan Giants will have a young, cheapish QB contract in mix for 3 years or so once Jones is shed next season.

Use your cap space.
RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 12:42 pm : link
In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
not Leonard Williams.


FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.
Giants showed the league  
Giantimistic : 3/9/2024 12:42 pm : link
How you beat the best offensive team ever. Get to the passer. Do that consistently and you will be in a lot of games. You must have a passer and get to the passer and protect the passer. That is the tree places to spend your big money.

Chiefs won the Super Bowl because of Chris Jones and then Mahomes this year.
RE: Keep in mind  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 12:44 pm : link
In comment 16422535 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Thibs is still 2-3 yrs from payday so might make sense to spend up front next couple years on cap hit for complementary edge and premier rusher then redraft a talent in 2-3 yrs if you pay Thibs. Burns figures to have a solid 4-5 yr window in him as a premier rusher.


+1
RE: Burns is a very good player...  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 12:49 pm : link
In comment 16422406 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but an ask of $30M per makes you wonder if Team Burns is using illegal substances from one of the drug cartels...

Hard, hard pass.


If it was 4 years they could backload the contract for when DJ is off the books and still sign Onwenu and Autry potentially. Then use future first and 2nd to trade up if they really want Maye or maybe if they do this it's a sign they like McCarthy and have intel they can get him with slight trade up to 5?
Burns was who Gettleman supposedly wanted in 2018...  
Milton : 3/9/2024 12:53 pm : link
But he went one pick (I think?) before Lawrence became the consolation prize. Now maybe they will have both.
Burns also increases Thibs effectiveness  
UConn4523 : 3/9/2024 12:56 pm : link
Could be a scary duo. Ohh and Dex wrecking games too.
RE: This would be very good  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 12:57 pm : link
In comment 16422505 Chris684 said:
Quote:
And it tells us a few things.

We’re not targeting edge in round 1, obviously.

We don’t feel like we need 47 as a trade chip.

Burns is a stud.


I feel like if they made a trade like this it would mean they like McCarthy and don't plan on trading their other 2nd to get him at 5. They would have to have intel qbs are going 1-2-3 mHJ to AZ and they are fine with either DM or JJM at 5 with a preliminary trade in place for a future 3rd and 5th or something like that.
RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 12:58 pm : link
In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.

Tied for 10th in pass rush win rate last season. He was also playing banged up on an awful defense & team that fired their HC mid-season. There's also this:

Quote:
Brian Burns said all the injuries on the defensive side early in the season impacted him, especially after his contract talks stalled.

“Dealing with what I was dealing with in camp I was terrified to get hurt.” Did he ever find himself feeling like he was playing not to get hurt?

“I don’t wanna say that, but in the back of my head. probably sometimes.

Being transparent, I wouldn’t say it’s nothing I’m proud of but it’s human nature.” Adds his effort never waned.
RE: RE: This would be very good  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 12:59 pm : link
In comment 16422560 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422505 Chris684 said:


Quote:


And it tells us a few things.

We’re not targeting edge in round 1, obviously.

We don’t feel like we need 47 as a trade chip.

Burns is a stud.



I feel like if they made a trade like this it would mean they like McCarthy and don't plan on trading their other 2nd to get him at 5. They would have to have intel qbs are going 1-2-3 mHJ to AZ and they are fine with either DM or JJM at 5 with a preliminary trade in place for a future 3rd and 5th or something like that.

As others mentioned before, they may also know the only way they could get into the top 3 is using next year's first.
RE: Burns also increases Thibs effectiveness  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 12:59 pm : link
In comment 16422558 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Could be a scary duo. Ohh and Dex wrecking games too.

I think the edge player opposite Thibs is the biggest need on the defense. Thibs gets more attention than he deserves simply because offenses don’t have to worry at all about the Jihad Wards and Boogie Bashams. Obviously Ojulari is rarely out there or effective. Burns is a stronger number two threat behind Dex, and Thibs can take advantage of that.
RE: RE: RE: This would be very good  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:02 pm : link
In comment 16422564 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422560 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422505 Chris684 said:


Quote:


And it tells us a few things.

We’re not targeting edge in round 1, obviously.

We don’t feel like we need 47 as a trade chip.

Burns is a stud.



I feel like if they made a trade like this it would mean they like McCarthy and don't plan on trading their other 2nd to get him at 5. They would have to have intel qbs are going 1-2-3 mHJ to AZ and they are fine with either DM or JJM at 5 with a preliminary trade in place for a future 3rd and 5th or something like that.


As others mentioned before, they may also know the only way they could get into the top 3 is using next year's first.


They'd have to trade their 2nd too. If they do this trade I don't think they trade up to 3. They would have to feel like they are good with either JJM or DM. Maybe after meeting with DM they decided they are good with either of them and don't need to trade up. Perhaps JJM blew them away at the combine with x's and o's and a good on field performance, then they met with DM and decided they are good with either one of them. A trade like this would be very telling.
...  
christian : 3/9/2024 1:03 pm : link
Despite the rumors to the contrary, Schoen has exhibited pretty good cap discipline, and the Giants have the space and flexibility to go get some good players.
A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 1:03 pm : link
But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds
RE: ...  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16422567 christian said:
Quote:
Despite the rumors to the contrary, Schoen has exhibited pretty good cap discipline, and the Giants have the space and flexibility to go get some good players.


Yes and if they know they are getting a qb in rd1 then they can plan ahead and backload contracts to hit the books after DJ is gone.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This would be very good  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16422566 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:

They'd have to trade their 2nd too. If they do this trade I don't think they trade up to 3. They would have to feel like they are good with either JJM or DM. Maybe after meeting with DM they decided they are good with either of them and don't need to trade up. Perhaps JJM blew them away at the combine with x's and o's and a good on field performance, then they met with DM and decided they are good with either one of them. A trade like this would be very telling.

They have two seconds. If they traded one for Burns they'd still have a 2nd and next year's first to use to move up. Plenty of capital.
RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:05 pm : link
In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds


One of the 2nds and future first maybe. I don't see them trading that pick 39 with so many great wr prospects that will be on the board there. I really believe if they do this trade its a sign they aren't trading up to 3 and they are fine with JJM or DM without a big trade up.
RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 1:07 pm : link
In comment 16422562 Strahan91 said:
Quote:

Quote:


Brian Burns said all the injuries on the defensive side early in the season impacted him, especially after his contract talks stalled.

“Dealing with what I was dealing with in camp I was terrified to get hurt.” Did he ever find himself feeling like he was playing not to get hurt?

“I don’t wanna say that, but in the back of my head. probably sometimes.

Being transparent, I wouldn’t say it’s nothing I’m proud of but it’s human nature.” Adds his effort never waned.



Burns is a good player. And I agree the circumstances in Carolina were far from ideal.
I am an 03/05er  
Chris684 : 3/9/2024 1:08 pm : link
Between news like this and a potential 1st round QB, 03/24 is setting up to be big.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This would be very good  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:08 pm : link
In comment 16422570 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422566 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:



They'd have to trade their 2nd too. If they do this trade I don't think they trade up to 3. They would have to feel like they are good with either JJM or DM. Maybe after meeting with DM they decided they are good with either of them and don't need to trade up. Perhaps JJM blew them away at the combine with x's and o's and a good on field performance, then they met with DM and decided they are good with either one of them. A trade like this would be very telling.


They have two seconds. If they traded one for Burns they'd still have a 2nd and next year's first to use to move up. Plenty of capital.


You sacrifice getting a potential #1wr or potential starting o lineman. On a team with a lot of holes, I don't see Schoen doing this trade and then trading up. What do I know, but I really think this would be a sign he likes DM and JJM about equally. That would be great news for us. I would hate to trade pick 39 and a future first for DM when I and sy and others have JJM graded slightly higher than DM.
RE: I remember with the past regime  
Sean : 3/9/2024 1:09 pm : link
In comment 16422523 nygscott said:
Quote:
Judge talked about building back to front on D, so spending on X would've probably been a sure thing with them. It seems as though JS would rather build front to back if all these rumblings come to be.

This is a good point. I'd be glad to see the Giants get back to strong defensive line play.
RE: 03/24  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 3/9/2024 1:09 pm : link
In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:
Quote:
.


How long does one have to be on BBI to know this is the first thing you do when you see a crazy rumor.

This thread shouldn't have 3 pages
If the Giants  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 1:09 pm : link
Do end up trading For Burns and signing Russ I would be shocked if they traded up for a QB.

If they don't do either of the above I would still be surprised if they traded up.
RE: RE: 03/24  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16422579 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:


Quote:


.



How long does one have to be on BBI to know this is the first thing you do when you see a crazy rumor.

This thread shouldn't have 3 pages


Did you guys see Eric's response earlier in the thread...
Joe needs to make bold moves that work....  
GiantBlue : 3/9/2024 1:15 pm : link
I was all in on the Waller trade and drunk with anticipation when the pundits all called Joe a genius for making it.

We have lacked a dynamic rush for some time and like a stable OL....is a definite need for a winning team.

If we do trade for Burns and sign Russell...I agree with most that getting that QB in the draft could set this team up for the future with all the cap that is becoming available.

It could energize this fanbase deeply in need of energizing.
RE: If the Giants  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:16 pm : link
In comment 16422580 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Do end up trading For Burns and signing Russ I would be shocked if they traded up for a QB.

If they don't do either of the above I would still be surprised if they traded up.


Not playing DJ to avoid the extra 25 million with Russ playing and both of them tutoring a rookie would be a stellar plan. I agree if they do this they aren't trading up to 3 though. I really think this would tell us they are fine with DM or JJM and don't need to trade up to 3. That would be ideal for us, obviously only if the qb we get pans out. I agree though, if they make this trade I don't see them trading up to 3. They will need that pick 39, a lot of great players will be there at positions of need (WR would be best imo, Franklin Mitchell or Leggette).
RE: If the Giants  
Giants1986 : 3/9/2024 1:16 pm : link
In comment 16422580 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Do end up trading For Burns and signing Russ I would be shocked if they traded up for a QB.

If they don't do either of the above I would still be surprised if they traded up.
would you be surprised if they take one at 6?
RE: RE: 03/24  
Swizzle : 3/9/2024 1:18 pm : link
In comment 16422579 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:


Quote:


.



How long does one have to be on BBI to know this is the first thing you do when you see a crazy rumor.

This thread shouldn't have 3 pages


As I said earlier in the thread, the only hurdle is the contract. Believe what you want.
RE: ...  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:19 pm : link
In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌
Sucks that QB is so unsettled.  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 1:21 pm : link
Adding a guy like Burns and drafting Odunze/Nabers would be awesome. Still might happen but it wouldn’t have the same impact.
RE: RE: ...  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 1:23 pm : link
In comment 16422591 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:






I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌


No. Eric flat out said don't dismiss this.
RE: Sucks that QB is so unsettled.  
Giants1986 : 3/9/2024 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16422592 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Adding a guy like Burns and drafting Odunze/Nabers would be awesome. Still might happen but it wouldn’t have the same impact.
yup without a QB it’s hard to be excited about these potential moves
I would hate to give up assets  
LW_Giants : 3/9/2024 1:24 pm : link
we may need to move up for a QB. And if this is a move where they plan to also sign russ and punt on drafting a QB it'll be a huge mistake.
RE: I would hate to give up assets  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16422598 LW_Giants said:
Quote:
we may need to move up for a QB. And if this is a move where they plan to also sign russ and punt on drafting a QB it'll be a huge mistake.


If the Giants are willing to move up a draft pick you can bet your ass that they know exactly what they would need to move up.
Burns, Thibs and Okereke  
The Mike : 3/9/2024 1:28 pm : link
Would be the best linebacker room we have had in decades. Essentially, we take the dollars potentially allocated to X and Barkley and give it to Burns. No brainer. Do this in a heartbeat. The front seven on defense will finally be solid. A great use of the draft pick gained from doing the right thing and moving Leonard Williams.

Make it so Joe!
Don't like trading a high draft choce for a high salary  
US1 Giants : 3/9/2024 1:28 pm : link
I could see signing him as a free agent for $30M but hate trading a high pick for the right to pay him $30M.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:28 pm : link
In comment 16422594 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 16422591 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:






I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌



No. Eric flat out said don't dismiss this.


Oh I missed that one, much more exciting now. It would be an outstanding trade if they believe in DM or JJM and don't plan on trading up to 3. I wouldn't like it so much if they traded our other 2nd and future 1st to trade up to 3. The WRs and OL are just too deep in this draft to trade both 2s.
RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 1:31 pm : link
In comment 16422571 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



One of the 2nds and future first maybe. I don't see them trading that pick 39 with so many great wr prospects that will be on the board there. I really believe if they do this trade its a sign they aren't trading up to 3 and they are fine with JJM or DM without a big trade up.


I agree with this. Trading #47 for Burns makes it less likely they'll trade up to #3. The cost to do so would be at least #39 and next year's #1, which seems prohibitively expensive. Trading up to #5 with SD though would still be possible if the cost was just #70.
RE: RE: 03/24  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 1:31 pm : link
In comment 16422579 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:


Quote:


.



How long does one have to be on BBI to know this is the first thing you do when you see a crazy rumor.

This thread shouldn't have 3 pages


Yes. It should.
After  
Toth029 : 3/9/2024 1:31 pm : link
Paying a QB, the next pay is to your best pass rusher. Then your best pass protector.

Some would prefer paying Safeties high money or wide receivers big money in free agency, but those are mistakes. And I feel Joe Schoen agrees with that. Draft receivers and draft low or mid caliber positions.

Trading and paying for Burns doesn't stop them from getting a QB early this upcoming Draft.
RE: RE: RE: 03/24  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:32 pm : link
In comment 16422589 Swizzle said:
Quote:
In comment 16422579 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:


Quote:


In comment 16422389 DCPollaro said:


Quote:


.



How long does one have to be on BBI to know this is the first thing you do when you see a crazy rumor.

This thread shouldn't have 3 pages



As I said earlier in the thread, the only hurdle is the contract. Believe what you want.


Another point, if we make this trade I think it spells DJ is done here. Otherwise the cap wiggling would be ugly. It would only work well if they can sign him to 4 years for 110-120m and backload the contract to hit in years 3 and 4 with a rookie qb contract on the books imo
If they give up the 47th pick sounds like they have no  
Blue21 : 3/9/2024 1:32 pm : link
intention of moving up in the draft for a QB.
RE: RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16422604 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 16422571 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



One of the 2nds and future first maybe. I don't see them trading that pick 39 with so many great wr prospects that will be on the board there. I really believe if they do this trade its a sign they aren't trading up to 3 and they are fine with JJM or DM without a big trade up.



I agree with this. Trading #47 for Burns makes it less likely they'll trade up to #3. The cost to do so would be at least #39 and next year's #1, which seems prohibitively expensive. Trading up to #5 with SD though would still be possible if the cost was just #70.


Eagles traded up one spot in the top 10 for a future 4th last year, I think a future 3rd and 5th would do the trick. We will need that 3rd this year for one of RB DL CB OL WR
RE: RE: ...  
colin : 3/9/2024 1:40 pm : link
In comment 16422591 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:






I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌


His line is “I have spoken.” Prob referencing his own post saying “I wouldn’t dismiss this”
RE: After  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16422606 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Paying a QB, the next pay is to your best pass rusher. Then your best pass protector.

Some would prefer paying Safeties high money or wide receivers big money in free agency, but those are mistakes. And I feel Joe Schoen agrees with that. Draft receivers and draft low or mid caliber positions.

Trading and paying for Burns doesn't stop them from getting a QB early this upcoming Draft.


It doesn't, it actually points toward them doing that and planning to have a rookie qb Contract on the books. I do think it would be a sign they aren't trading up to 3 though. We have too many holes to trade pick 47 for Burns and a future first plus pick 39 to the Pats.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16422614 colin said:
Quote:
In comment 16422591 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:






I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌



His line is “I have spoken.” Prob referencing his own post saying “I wouldn’t dismiss this”


Oh gotcha, I knew I was missing some kind of reference there 😅
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
colin : 3/9/2024 1:48 pm : link
In comment 16422617 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422614 colin said:


Quote:


In comment 16422591 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422509 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:






I imagine this means Eric thinks this guy is trolling 🧌



His line is “I have spoken.” Prob referencing his own post saying “I wouldn’t dismiss this”



Oh gotcha, I knew I was missing some kind of reference there 😅


If the Giants stink again next year, invest those saved hours from Sunday on catching up on the Mandalorian! This is the way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 1:54 pm : link
In comment 16422610 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422604 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 16422571 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



One of the 2nds and future first maybe. I don't see them trading that pick 39 with so many great wr prospects that will be on the board there. I really believe if they do this trade its a sign they aren't trading up to 3 and they are fine with JJM or DM without a big trade up.



I agree with this. Trading #47 for Burns makes it less likely they'll trade up to #3. The cost to do so would be at least #39 and next year's #1, which seems prohibitively expensive. Trading up to #5 with SD though would still be possible if the cost was just #70.



Eagles traded up one spot in the top 10 for a future 4th last year, I think a future 3rd and 5th would do the trick. We will need that 3rd this year for one of RB DL CB OL WR


This is a deep draft. SD might want the third this year. We'd also be trading up for a QB and might possibly be competing with a team trying to "leapfrog" us for the last of the "big four" QBs.
RE: If they give up the 47th pick sounds like they have no  
Giants1986 : 3/9/2024 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16422609 Blue21 said:
Quote:
intention of moving up in the draft for a QB.
that’s how it looks
They should still be able to trade up  
JonC : 3/9/2024 1:57 pm : link
.
RE: RE: If they give up the 47th pick sounds like they have no  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/9/2024 1:59 pm : link
In comment 16422626 Giants1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422609 Blue21 said:


Quote:


intention of moving up in the draft for a QB.

that’s how it looks


How so?
RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 3/9/2024 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds


Trading for Russell Wilson would be an unmitigated disaster.
RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 2:02 pm : link
In comment 16422631 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



Trading for Russell Wilson would be an unmitigated disaster.


You don't have to trade for him. He's free. Plus he will cost the vet minimum.
RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
JayBinQueens : 3/9/2024 2:03 pm : link
In comment 16422631 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



Trading for Russell Wilson would be an unmitigated disaster.


He's a freevafent,likely on a vet min deal
RE: RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
JayBinQueens : 3/9/2024 2:03 pm : link
In comment 16422635 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:
In comment 16422631 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:


Quote:


In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



Trading for Russell Wilson would be an unmitigated disaster.



He's a freevafent,likely on a vet min deal


Free agent. Whoops
Nomad Crow on the Madison  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 2:03 pm : link
If you're clinging to Jones, don't.

As many of us (including Tiki Barber) said yesterday, the fact that they met with Wilson means Jones is toast.
RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2024 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.


We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.
LOVE ASSHAT SEASON  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/9/2024 2:13 pm : link
And I love this move. Go get him!!!
RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
mphbullet36 : 3/9/2024 2:16 pm : link
In comment 16422645 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.



We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.


How bad has CAR been the last couple seasons too. How many 4th qtr pass rushing opportunities has this guy had?
Andrew  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 2:17 pm : link
Thomas talks about Burns in this clip
#54 Brian Burns (DE, Panthers) | Top 100 Players of 2023 - ( New Window )
I have zero problem with this.  
mittenedman : 3/9/2024 2:20 pm : link
There's sticker shock, sure.

But the cap keeps going up, significantly over the next 2 years.

It's a premium position. That's where you want to spend your $$$. Not S and RB.
RE: Andrew  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16422649 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Thomas talks about Burns in this clip #54 Brian Burns (DE, Panthers) | Top 100 Players of 2023 - ( New Window )


bend and explosion are top tier. has the knack for forced fumble. talent wise he is on the level we havent seen since osi/jpp.

put him on the other side of thibs and you have maybe the best edge rushing duo in nfl. if ojulari also stays healthy somehow and with dex collapsing the interior, wow look out. that is a potentially elite front.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
jvm52106 : 3/9/2024 2:23 pm : link
In comment 16422648 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422645 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.



We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.



How bad has CAR been the last couple seasons too. How many 4th qtr pass rushing opportunities has this guy had?


Some of you floor me. You can't possibly look at Carolina and ask what impact Burns had by their record. This team, under Tepper's ownership, is a rudderless disaster akin to Snyders Washington teams..

Burns is a legit player and gives Thibs a huge help if we got him.
Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/9/2024 2:24 pm : link
some have suggest cutting Ojulari. I wouldn't. He's still on his rookie contract and he would be a nice role player as a non-starter in your scenario.
Panthers need cap room  
jvm52106 : 3/9/2024 2:26 pm : link
Too, another reason they could be willing to deal Burns.
RE: Nomad Crow on the Madison  
BigBlueShock : 3/9/2024 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16422638 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If you're clinging to Jones, don't.

As many of us (including Tiki Barber) said yesterday, the fact that they met with Wilson means Jones is toast.

lol. Eric out here breaking hearts
RE: RE: Andrew  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16422653 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422649 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Thomas talks about Burns in this clip #54 Brian Burns (DE, Panthers) | Top 100 Players of 2023 - ( New Window )



bend and explosion are top tier. has the knack for forced fumble. talent wise he is on the level we havent seen since osi/jpp.

put him on the other side of thibs and you have maybe the best edge rushing duo in nfl. if ojulari also stays healthy somehow and with dex collapsing the interior, wow look out. that is a potentially elite front.



This. It almost makes too much sense.
This is very legit  
Brandon Walsh : 3/9/2024 2:27 pm : link
And we should all be thrilled if it happens.
BBS.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/9/2024 2:28 pm : link
The devotion among some to Jones is one of the weirdest things I can ever recall as a Giants fan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2024 2:28 pm : link
In comment 16422655 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422648 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422645 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.



We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.



How bad has CAR been the last couple seasons too. How many 4th qtr pass rushing opportunities has this guy had?



Some of you floor me. You can't possibly look at Carolina and ask what impact Burns had by their record. This team, under Tepper's ownership, is a rudderless disaster akin to Snyders Washington teams..

Burns is a legit player and gives Thibs a huge help if we got him.


I think he was agreeing with me, lol
Cap space  
jvm52106 : 3/9/2024 2:28 pm : link
Dolphins, Chargers, Bills and Saints all have to cut a bunch of salary before Wednesday 4pm. 49ers, Ravens, Chiefs, Browns, Cowboys and PANTHERS all over or near the cap limit heading into the new league year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
mphbullet36 : 3/9/2024 2:33 pm : link
In comment 16422664 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16422655 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422648 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422645 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 16422543 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16422530 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


not Leonard Williams.



FWIW, PFF ranked him the 37th for the Edge spot in 2023.



We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.



How bad has CAR been the last couple seasons too. How many 4th qtr pass rushing opportunities has this guy had?



Some of you floor me. You can't possibly look at Carolina and ask what impact Burns had by their record. This team, under Tepper's ownership, is a rudderless disaster akin to Snyders Washington teams..

Burns is a legit player and gives Thibs a huge help if we got him.



I think he was agreeing with me, lol


I was agreeing with you. I think there is more untapped big years ahead of him. I think his sacks numbers are lower because his team stinks. On a good team that takes leads into the 4th he could have some massive seasons IMO.

How in the world did he think I was complaining about Burns with that post?
If the Giants get the QB position right  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 2:34 pm : link
Having to potential elite edge rushers in their prime locked in for the next four years gives them opportunity to compete for something more than winning the wild card round
RE: If the Giants get the QB position right  
Sean : 3/9/2024 2:35 pm : link
In comment 16422673 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Having to potential elite edge rushers in their prime locked in for the next four years gives them opportunity to compete for something more than winning the wild card round

Add in a left tackle. A lot of fans overcomplicate things. Get a QB and the team will compete fast. QB is the toughest thing to hit though.
RE: RE: If the Giants get the QB position right  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 2:39 pm : link
In comment 16422674 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16422673 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Having to potential elite edge rushers in their prime locked in for the next four years gives them opportunity to compete for something more than winning the wild card round


Add in a left tackle. A lot of fans overcomplicate things. Get a QB and the team will compete fast. QB is the toughest thing to hit though.


Yup, it would be great to land one of the top WRs in round 2 but the college game produces and handful of really good to great WRs each year. But also don’t think our WRs are as bad as they’re made out to be here.
Premium Positions  
mittenedman : 3/9/2024 2:40 pm : link
QB - someone good
LT - Andrew Thomas
ER - Thibs & Burns
NT - Dexter Lawrence
3-down MIKE - Bobby Okereke
CB1 - Tae Banks

That's a solid core, with investments in the proper place. Fill out from there.

RE: Premium Positions  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 2:43 pm : link
In comment 16422680 mittenedman said:
Quote:
QB - someone good
LT - Andrew Thomas
ER - Thibs & Burns
NT - Dexter Lawrence
3-down MIKE - Bobby Okereke
CB1 - Tae Banks

That's a solid core, with investments in the proper place. Fill out from there.


And who knows maybe next offseason there’s an AJ Brown to the Eagles type trade available to make.
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 2:47 pm : link
In comment 16422656 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
some have suggest cutting Ojulari. I wouldn't. He's still on his rookie contract and he would be a nice role player as a non-starter in your scenario.


People get frustrated with guys who get hurt and I get that but it would be hard to find more upside than a guy with his ability in a contract year and only costing 2m against the cap.

I’d bet a team would trade a 3rd or 4th for him. Keeping him and hoping to recoup that with a comp pick if he leaves next year is the way I’d go. He is a lot more talented than most teams 3rd rusher (assuming they add an upgrade at edge).
very interesting  
Matt in SGS : 3/9/2024 2:54 pm : link
you build your team around a QB and a pass rush. I think the Giants get their QB this draft and Burns would be a big piece to fixing the pass rush. We know Schoen isn't afraid to work the phones and make trades. Thanks for the info.
I  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 2:57 pm : link
don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.
RE: RE: RE: Burns is the type of player you spend 30m on  
bw in dc : 3/9/2024 2:59 pm : link
In comment 16422645 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:

We're talking about a 25 year old two-way edge who's posted 8, 12.5, 9, 9 sacks a year the last 4 years. Two time pro bowl player. Consistently high-level, healthy player who hasn't even reached his prime yet.

He's a building block. That's why Carolina franchise tagged him.


Carolina has a first time GM - Dan Morgan - and an owner who thinks he's Bill Polian. I'm not ready to take anything they do seriously yet.

Burns is a good player. I just don't see an elite player for the money being tossed around.

Now, if we made a move for Hunter, which certainly has risk, I could buy that more because he's elite and has cleared a nice path to Canton.



RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 3:00 pm : link
In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:
Quote:
don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.


in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.
RE: RE: Premium Positions  
Breeze_94 : 3/9/2024 3:07 pm : link
In comment 16422683 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422680 mittenedman said:


Quote:


QB - someone good
LT - Andrew Thomas
ER - Thibs & Burns
NT - Dexter Lawrence
3-down MIKE - Bobby Okereke
CB1 - Tae Banks

That's a solid core, with investments in the proper place. Fill out from there.




And who knows maybe next offseason there’s an AJ Brown to the Eagles type trade available to make.


Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/9/2024 3:11 pm : link
Even when healthy, I thought Azeez had a quiet season.
Very exciting potential trade  
cosmicj : 3/9/2024 3:13 pm : link
I had ER right behind QB as the biggest team need. This would more than fill that.
RE: RE: I  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


Quote:


don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.


Or he gets hurt again and signs for peanuts next year on a prove it, one year deal. Trade him now and just recoup some value, whatever it is. I would gladly take a 4th for him
RE: Very exciting potential trade  
Sean : 3/9/2024 3:20 pm : link
In comment 16422705 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I had ER right behind QB as the biggest team need. This would more than fill that.

While I do have concerns with the cost of Burns, I'm excited about a potential identity.

--Build a pass rush
--Draft the future QB

Hopefully they can sign a guard for the OL and you can see this team look much more competitive pretty quickly.
putting feet in carolina shoes - they have almost no cap or picks  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 3:22 pm : link
they have about $10m of cap space right now.

their draft picks are #33, #65, #100.

that does not create a lot of options as free agency opens to improve their roster - which needs pretty much everything.

trading Burns for the best pick/picks they can get creates another 24m of cap room. the extra cap room could fill 3 or 4 needs plus whatever they do with the pick (s) beyond that.

trading him before monday seems like the right move. id be a little surprised if pick #47 is best they can get but no complaints if it gets him to ny.
The fact he gets as many sacks as  
Amtoft : 3/9/2024 3:22 pm : link
He has is incredible. Pass rushers feast on 3rd and long and when other teams are behind and you know they will be passing. Don’t know if anyone saw Carolina play last year, but ummm not a lot of chances to all out pass rush.

This would be a good get but the price can’t be 30 mil per… it has to be less and that is because we will need to pay him less this year to leave cap room meaning higher price for later years would be crazy at 30 mil per year.
RE: RE: RE: Premium Positions  
bceagle05 : 3/9/2024 3:22 pm : link
In comment 16422697 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB

That’s what the sixth pick is likely gonna come down to. Do you like a guy like McCarthy enough to pass on a #1 WR? Tough call.
Yes - 100%!!!  
Formerly TD : 3/9/2024 3:23 pm : link
This would be a smart allocation of assets, regardless of whether we overpay a bit. Way better than throwing even half toward Barkley and X.
RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 3:24 pm : link
In comment 16422711 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


Quote:


don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.



Or he gets hurt again and signs for peanuts next year on a prove it, one year deal. Trade him now and just recoup some value, whatever it is. I would gladly take a 4th for him


if the worst happens and he gets hurt and signs for peanuts, i have no issue being the team that signs a 24 year old edge rusher with ability for peanuts. that seems pretty low risk to me. whoever you draft in the 4th round could get hurt too.
RE: RE: I  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 3:24 pm : link
In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


Quote:


don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.


I would absolutely take a fourth for Ojulari.

I can't see counting on him to have a season that would get anyone to give him a $10M+ contract next year.

You have to assume that any comp pick we would otherwise get for him if he leaves would be cancelled out by our FA signings.
RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 3:28 pm : link
In comment 16422721 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


Quote:


don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.



I would absolutely take a fourth for Ojulari.

I can't see counting on him to have a season that would get anyone to give him a $10M+ contract next year.

You have to assume that any comp pick we would otherwise get for him if he leaves would be cancelled out by our FA signings.


even if you could get a 4th for him this is a thin draft. you are likely getting a prospect on the level of belton/davidson/bellinger/beavers/mckethan.

i also disagree about the need to assume comp picks get cancelled out. if they add burns via trade, resign 1 of their FAs, and then sign players who got cut as opposed to UFAs (like williams or russ) they may get comp picks this year even spending a lot. manipulating the comp pick system gets more easily doable every year it seems.
RE: Eric  
Section331 : 3/9/2024 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16422656 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
some have suggest cutting Ojulari. I wouldn't. He's still on his rookie contract and he would be a nice role player as a non-starter in your scenario.


Cutting Ojulari makes zero sense. I get that his injury history is frustrating, but he’s cheap, and a good player when healthy. Bringing him back in 2025 is another story.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A Burns trade and a Russ signing would be a good start  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:35 pm : link
In comment 16422625 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 16422610 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422604 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 16422571 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422568 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But a Burns trade also could be that they know the price to get to 3 and it’s only one of the seconds



One of the 2nds and future first maybe. I don't see them trading that pick 39 with so many great wr prospects that will be on the board there. I really believe if they do this trade its a sign they aren't trading up to 3 and they are fine with JJM or DM without a big trade up.



I agree with this. Trading #47 for Burns makes it less likely they'll trade up to #3. The cost to do so would be at least #39 and next year's #1, which seems prohibitively expensive. Trading up to #5 with SD though would still be possible if the cost was just #70.



Eagles traded up one spot in the top 10 for a future 4th last year, I think a future 3rd and 5th would do the trick. We will need that 3rd this year for one of RB DL CB OL WR



This is a deep draft. SD might want the third this year. We'd also be trading up for a QB and might possibly be competing with a team trying to "leapfrog" us for the last of the "big four" QBs.


I don't think the Chargers have any interest on missing out on their guy whether it's Odunze, Bowers or Alt or someone else. They will only want to trace with us imo. Future 3rd and 5th will do it I think
Strahan, Tuck, Kiwi, Osi  
Giantimistic : 3/9/2024 3:37 pm : link
You are allowed to have more than 2 pass rushers.
RE: Strahan, Tuck, Kiwi, Osi  
Angel Eyes : 3/9/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16422735 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
You are allowed to have more than 2 pass rushers.

Unless you're Dave Gettleman who thinks his DCs can scheme it up without the talent.
RE: Strahan, Tuck, Kiwi, Osi  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:41 pm : link
In comment 16422735 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
You are allowed to have more than 2 pass rushers.


Get Burns and sign Autry to a 1 year deal for DE spot. Then sign Onwenu to 4 or 5 years with both Burns and Onwenu's money stacked at the back end after DJ is off books and we have rookie qb contract. Sign a guy like Murphy Bunting or Darious Williams. Take QB rd 1 wr rd 2 then bpa focused on CB OL DL RB the rest of the way.
I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Go Terps : 3/9/2024 3:42 pm : link
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Chris684 : 3/9/2024 3:45 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


Burns is also top notch quality. Reliable and in his prime. This would be a KMac-Plax-Rolle type FA acquisition.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 3:45 pm : link
In comment 16422720 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16422711 GiantGrit said:


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In comment 16422691 Eric on Li said:


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In comment 16422687 AcidTest said:


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don't want to cut Ojulari. I want to trade him. But if we can't trade him, then yes, he can come to camp, and we hope he can finally stay healthy and contribute on a regular basis during what will likely be his last season with the Giants. But that's the problem. He can't stay healthy. I don't blame players for getting injured, but at some point you have to move on.



in a trade i doubt you are getting much for him right now. probably a 4th at best.

if he stays and has a good enough year to get a 10m+ contract next year he can bring back a 4th as a comp pick.



Or he gets hurt again and signs for peanuts next year on a prove it, one year deal. Trade him now and just recoup some value, whatever it is. I would gladly take a 4th for him



if the worst happens and he gets hurt and signs for peanuts, i have no issue being the team that signs a 24 year old edge rusher with ability for peanuts. that seems pretty low risk to me. whoever you draft in the 4th round could get hurt too.


Agree to disagree. Best ability is availability. He's young and oft injured, I'm not expecting that to get better in a sport like football.

He makes more sense for a contender who needs a good 3rd ER
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:49 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


Agreed, besides for a guy like Onwenu the likes of which rarely ever hits FA (an ol on upward trajectory not yet in his prime) I'd pay whatever it takes go get him.
RE: 47  
81_Great_Dane : 3/9/2024 3:55 pm : link
In comment 16422465 Hilary said:
Quote:
At 47 you get a very good player low cap number controlled for 4 years. You don't trade that pick for a high priced player. Horrible idea.
At 47 you might get that guy. The draft is a crapshoot.
RE: RE: 47  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 3:59 pm : link
In comment 16422752 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 16422465 Hilary said:


Quote:


At 47 you get a very good player low cap number controlled for 4 years. You don't trade that pick for a high priced player. Horrible idea.

At 47 you might get that guy. The draft is a crapshoot.


The odds of getting a guy anywhere near Burns' level for pick 47 are very, very low.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Premium Positions  
rich in DC : 3/9/2024 4:05 pm : link
In comment 16422717 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422697 Breeze_94 said:


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Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB


That’s what the sixth pick is likely gonna come down to. Do you like a guy like McCarthy enough to pass on a #1 WR? Tough call.


They might not get a unquestioned #1 WR- but they can likely get a very good #2 with upside in the 2nd round- WR is one of the deep positions this year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Premium Positions  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:10 pm : link
In comment 16422759 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16422717 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


In comment 16422697 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


Could knock out WR1 this off-season…rather than taking an iffy QB


That’s what the sixth pick is likely gonna come down to. Do you like a guy like McCarthy enough to pass on a #1 WR? Tough call.



They might not get a unquestioned #1 WR- but they can likely get a very good #2 with upside in the 2nd round- WR is one of the deep positions this year.


There are several big fast guys that have the potential to be #1s: Adonai Mitchell, Troy Franklin and Xavier Leggette each fit the bill and would be excellent alternatives to Odunze. If he even makes it to our pick.
This is not cap related for Panthers  
ZogZerg : 3/9/2024 4:13 pm : link
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.
Burns and Onenwu  
ajr2456 : 3/9/2024 4:13 pm : link
Plus Maye/JJM and a WR would be a hell of an offseason
RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:18 pm : link
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.


He probably wants out, wants a longer contract, in addition to the Panthers not having much cap room and having a bare cupboard of picks this year. Could be a perfect storm for us to get a blue chip pass rusher and building block of our defense.
RE: Burns and Onenwu  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:20 pm : link
In comment 16422766 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Plus Maye/JJM and a WR would be a hell of an offseason


Absolutely! Add in a guy like Murphy Bunting and Autry for DE. Then we are really talking and would be able to draft bpa after QB WR in first two rounds.
Hopefully they can get this done and  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 4:39 pm : link
Get Darious Williams signed before Monday at Noon. Would be awesome to go into the start of legal tampering with your Edge rusher & starting CB taken care of.
RE: Hopefully they can get this done and  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 4:46 pm : link
In comment 16422794 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Get Darious Williams signed before Monday at Noon. Would be awesome to go into the start of legal tampering with your Edge rusher & starting CB taken care of.


Upon further review, I think Darious Williams would be a better signing than Murphy Bunting. Williams has shown he can play well on the outside, Murphy Bunting hasn't really shown that.
RE: I tend to agree with avoiding the top of the FA market,  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 4:56 pm : link
In comment 16422740 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but that's usually in order to sign our own players. What players of ours are worth retaining? There's a gap in the pipeline created by the Toney, McKinney, Baker, Barkley, Ojulari...

The only guys from the past few years really getting paid are Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas. And Jones is really only this year.

The money has to go somewhere.


i feel like ive spent a decade trying to explain this concept.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:01 pm : link
In comment 16422743 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Best ability is availability.


what guarantee is there that any rookie will have ability or availability? dj davidson, mckethan, beavers all shredded ACL's year 1. robinson and ezeudu also ended up on IR as rookies.

i totally get not wanting to invest in ojulari but moving him saves 1.5m. that's it. and in 10+ picks from 2 deeper drafts im pretty sure this regime had only drafted 1 starter day 3 (mcfadden). so the expectation with any day 3 pick shouldnt be that much higher than a waiver claim like hodgins or mccloud.
RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:03 pm : link
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.


it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.
So if we get him for #47 and the type of $ we're talking about  
Stu11 : 3/9/2024 5:09 pm : link
We basically turned Leonard Williams into a younger better Leonard Williams. I don't see a problem with that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: TJ Watt got $28M/year in 2021  
90.Cal : 3/9/2024 5:18 pm : link
In comment 16422524 Capt. Don said:
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In comment 16422510 90.Cal said:


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In comment 16422479 Capt. Don said:


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In comment 16422445 90.Cal said:


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In comment 16422420 Capt. Don said:


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Try reading my post out loud and slowly.



“It would FOR SURE be north of $25M but I hope it’s less than $30M”

Just brilliant. Pinching pennies on a $100M+ deal is how you lose out on your target but ok that xtra $3M a year is soooo important



$30M - $25M = $5M...where did you get $3M?

And I said, "I hope." I didn't say that was a deal breaker. Calm yourself.


You said North of $25M… that means more than $25M, not equal to $25M…

and you said less than $30M… that means LESS than $30M, inot equal to $30M

You aren’t going to complain if it’s $26M-$29M but $30M is too much… lol… again listen to yourself, it just sounds dumb to me but oh well I’ll leave it alone now
Impact players  
Dave on the UWS : 3/9/2024 5:23 pm : link
you win with Impact players.
How many do we have? 2, maybe 3. This guy has been to pro bowls (plural). Make the deal!
RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Strahan91 : 3/9/2024 5:27 pm : link
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.

Not to mention, they probably have the league's worst roster and don't have a frp.
RE: So if we get him for #47 and the type of $ we're talking about  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:33 pm : link
In comment 16422816 Stu11 said:
Quote:
We basically turned Leonard Williams into a younger better Leonard Williams. I don't see a problem with that.


Leonard Williams was never a premier two way pass rusher, so we upgrade big time.
RE: Impact players  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:40 pm : link
In comment 16422821 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
you win with Impact players.
How many do we have? 2, maybe 3. This guy has been to pro bowls (plural). Make the deal!


Plus, he is just entering his prime. Would be an amazing move for pick 47, id be shocked he didn't fetch more although I wouldn't trade more either
Still hung up on  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 5:44 pm : link
JonC's comment about "watch Danielle Hunter".
RE: Still hung up on  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:45 pm : link
In comment 16422838 bc4life said:
Quote:
JonC's comment about "watch Danielle Hunter".


He is too old to give a longer deal to in which we could backload money into the post DJ era. It wouldn't make sense imo.
I'd  
AcidTest : 3/9/2024 5:46 pm : link
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.
RE: I'd  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 5:50 pm : link
In comment 16422841 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.


Khalil Mack was traded to the Chargers from the Bears for a future 2nd and future 6th. Mack was older, but established as an elite game wrecker also. The original poster mentioned pick 47 only, not a future 2nd.
RE: RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:53 pm : link
In comment 16422824 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.


Not to mention, they probably have the league's worst roster and don't have a frp.


yep. this was from 1 week ago - writing appears on the wall that he's getting dealt somewhere before UFA:

JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
I’m told the #Panthers informed Brian Burns during the Combine this past week that they aren’t continuing contract talks—at this time, per source.
RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 5:56 pm : link
In comment 16422841 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be surprised if we could get Burns for just #47. Somebody (asshat?) said it would likely take #47 and our second next year.


im also surprised if that's the price, but you have to remember we are right at the start of FA. any team negotiating with Carolina can easily pull the Danielle Hunter/Bryce Huff/Christian Wilkins card and say "I can just go pay 1 of those guys and save my pick".

Looks like he's already a NYG with the way Josina is full immersed in the details of his saga, but her reporting from a couple days supports #47 as possibly in line with where the market is right now:

JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
Regarding Carolina’s current situation with Brian Burns, a league source told me in their opinion, that the #Panthers should adapt better to present circumstances in order to potentially consummate a trade. The source said in their view it’s a double whammy to pay huge money for a player, and also give huge Draft compensation to the other team for a deal. They added, the time to get more draft picks was when the player has years left on their deal; but if the player is in their last year—the other team has to be prepared to keep the player, or take less.

I’ve heard some league sources say third-round compensation is fair for Burns if the acquiring team is also giving him a long-term deal, but that asking for 1-Plus is definitely too much for them.
I heard the Rams  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 5:58 pm : link
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?
RE: I heard the Rams  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2024 6:06 pm : link
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:
Quote:
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?


I had heard a while ago it was two 1sts. Can't remember where I saw it, but recently read it was two 1sts and a 2nd.
Not sure what the right amount is  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:07 pm : link
But he'd give us what we hoped for re: Ojulari. Consistent with hew DC's approach, ability to get consistent pressure with 4 rushers. He would make Thibs better.

And the nature of FA is to overpay. The question is how much...

RE: I heard the Rams  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:07 pm : link
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:
Quote:
offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?


that was according to shefter reporting 2 trade deadlines ago.

remember at that time he was 23 years old in the midst of a pro bowl season with 1.5 years of control left before FA.
Sources: Rams offered trades for Brian Burns, Christian McCaffrey - ( New Window )
Big Rick If true  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:08 pm : link
That's insane. Especially Panthers turning that down.
RE: Not sure what the right amount is  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16422864 bc4life said:
Quote:
But he'd give us what we hoped for re: Ojulari. Consistent with hew DC's approach, ability to get consistent pressure with 4 rushers. He would make Thibs better.

And the nature of FA is to overpay. The question is how much...


he would give us what we hoped for w/ thibs. not saying thibs cant still reach that level but burns is a better player than thibs by a healthy margin.
Here ya Eric  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:09 pm : link
But 2 firsts?
Also have to keep in mind  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:11 pm : link
how Thibs was used. Thibs.

11 sacks, got held a lot.
RE: Here ya Eric  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:13 pm : link
In comment 16422869 bc4life said:
Quote:
But 2 firsts?


they gave up 2 firsts for jalen ramsey at a similar age/situation.

they gave up a 2nd and 3rd for von miller as a rental in 2021.

dolphins gave up a 1st and 4th for bradley chubb in 2022 and he was older than Burns (also not as good).

pro bowl pass rushers on their rookie deals are probably the hardest thing to get other than qbs.
RE: Also have to keep in mind  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 6:23 pm : link
In comment 16422870 bc4life said:
Quote:
how Thibs was used. Thibs.

11 sacks, got held a lot.


like thibs burns probably got held a lot too, he was the best guy on that defense by a pretty big margin but still put up a bigger win rate. he started in the prior 2 pro bowls for a reason.

So what does Thibs need to do  
bc4life : 3/9/2024 6:34 pm : link
to level up?
RE: RE: I heard the Rams  
BleedBlue46 : 3/9/2024 6:39 pm : link
In comment 16422865 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422853 bc4life said:


Quote:


offered two 1sts for him at one time. Is that accurate?



that was according to shefter reporting 2 trade deadlines ago.

remember at that time he was 23 years old in the midst of a pro bowl season with 1.5 years of control left before FA. Sources: Rams offered trades for Brian Burns, Christian McCaffrey - ( New Window )


That's the thing, this is a trade and sign situation like the Sweat to Bears deal. Compensation would presumably be similar like the pick 47 mentioned before because we don't get half a season of him on his rookie deal.
RE: So what does Thibs need to do  
JayBinQueens : 3/9/2024 7:03 pm : link
In comment 16422891 bc4life said:
Quote:
to level up?


Line up opposite burns lol
We have a new Dcoordinator  
Giantimistic : 3/9/2024 7:07 pm : link
That from what has been posted likes to get pressure with his front 4. We therefore need a pressure generating front 4. Check on Dex. Thibs can do it and prob will excel with a new coordinator. We need a big signing because we are drafting a qb or wr.
RE: So what does Thibs need to do  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 7:12 pm : link
In comment 16422891 bc4life said:
Quote:
to level up?


probably just be more consistent he's shown all the traits, but part of that is likely environmental. he and burns would both probably be better off playing fewer than the 87% of snaps they played last year and they would definitely both be better off getting to play from ahead more as opposed to behind all the time.

other top edges play more like 75% snaps - so they get more rest - and any of the ones on good teams get more obvious pass situations/fewer run snaps.
RE: RE: This is not cap related for Panthers  
ZogZerg : 3/9/2024 9:12 pm : link
In comment 16422813 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422765 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


They could easily afford him. Sounds like he wants out.



it is cap related if they aren't willing to meet his price on extension. they've had negotiations with him for a while now. if they cant extend him then it is absolutely a cap constraint to carry 1 player on a 24m hit when you only have 10m of cap room.


No it's not. They have plenty of money.
They can easily move money to future years.
If they want him and he wants them it's not for one year.
I would have no problem of them trading for a young edge rusher.  
St. Jimmy : 3/9/2024 9:17 pm : link
The defense needs more pass rush. They better be right if they do it and sign him to a big contract.
Joel Corry prediction…..  
rasbutant : 3/9/2024 9:42 pm : link
For Brian Burns. Joel has been very accurate with his guesses.

Contract package: $150 million/5 years ($30 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $105 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $82.5 million
First three years: $95 million

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
GiantGrit : 3/9/2024 10:16 pm : link
In comment 16422811 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16422743 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


Best ability is availability.



what guarantee is there that any rookie will have ability or availability? dj davidson, mckethan, beavers all shredded ACL's year 1. robinson and ezeudu also ended up on IR as rookies.

i totally get not wanting to invest in ojulari but moving him saves 1.5m. that's it. and in 10+ picks from 2 deeper drafts im pretty sure this regime had only drafted 1 starter day 3 (mcfadden). so the expectation with any day 3 pick shouldnt be that much higher than a waiver claim like hodgins or mccloud.


With that logic they should just trade all day 3 picks. I never once mentioned the savings because its not about that, If I know I'm not resigning him long term and we're not a perennial playoff team I'd rather trade him. Maybe they keep him and he plays well and they can try trading him at the deadline.

He could put up 12 sacks and I'm still not resigning him because he'll get a multi year deal from someone else.

Its not the end of the world if they keep him, just saying what I would do.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Eric on Li : 3/9/2024 10:36 pm : link
In comment 16423028 GiantGrit said:
Quote:

He could put up 12 sacks and I'm still not resigning him because he'll get a multi year deal from someone else.


i agree - but in that instance they got 12 sacks + probably a solid comp pick (3rd/4th).

i think its worth a 2m flier to get that upside. in a weak draft im not cashing in a cheap edge with talent for a non-top 100 pick.
RE: You ask for $30M  
Fifty Six : 3/9/2024 11:34 pm : link
In comment 16422431 90.Cal said:
Quote:
You get $25M, it’s called a negotiation. Let’s not shoot down the asking price. Burns would be exactly what this defense needs.


You beat me to it. Of course a players first ask would he the h8gh end of his perceived value. That's how you start negotiations
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