Unless by some miracle they are relatively cheap. I would much prefer Ekeler but the smart play is to draft a RB in round 3 or 4 and sign a cheaper veteran as depth.
Unless by some miracle they are relatively cheap. I would much prefer Ekeler but the smart play is to draft a RB in round 3 or 4 and sign a cheaper veteran as depth.
If Barkley leaves, they had better have a decent vet backup on the roster.
(for example) outshine many other teams (including the Giants).
Eagles need a RB, what do they do, they trade for DeAndre Swift (a 2025 4th round pick and swapped 2023 7ths with DET).
if they had signed a FA RB they very likely wouldn't have the same comp picks they have this draft.
signing a FA RB like Ekeler or Pollard probably cancels out whatever gain they'd get from losing Barkley so it would be like signing the player and losing a pick for doing so.
despite the other issues with these two specifically, it's just not smart football business.
Unless by some miracle they are relatively cheap. I would much prefer Ekeler but the smart play is to draft a RB in round 3 or 4 and sign a cheaper veteran as depth.
If Barkley leaves, they had better have a decent vet backup on the roster.
Agreed…..they can’t go into the draft hungry, as they say. There’s only so many draft picks and we don’t know how the board is going to fall come draft day. Need a replacement for Barkley if he leaves, if that means we spend a little to get a young vet, then so be it.
Of course agents will say that the Giants are eying their players because they need to create a market. Not to mention the Giants have been reticent to the fact that the game is no longer 3 yards and a cloud of dust so linking every RB to them makes sense.
need to sign a veteran RB AND draft one. If Barkley leaves (and he should, that is what is best for him and the Giants), we have nobody at RB. Breida is FA and I assume will not be resigned. That leaves Gray, Brightwell, Corbin, and Jackson. RB is just another huge hole on this team.
ton of fumbles and is always banged up. pollard also had a bad year. both of them are probably getting 1 year guarantees or value deals multi-year.
i think people are over-concerned about whoever the RB ends up being - the choice is basically this:
spend 3-6m of cap on a veteran for basically 1 year, draft a RB early
spend 8-10m of cap on barkley for basically 2 years, draft a RB a little later if necessary
i still think theres at least a 50/50 they bring back barkley bc it's the best value, but generally people are over-concerned. the scale of $ is not big either way.
I’m in the minority on the money though, cheap position so going cheap doesn’t see enough savings to matter. I’m fine with either route but the super cheap option only works if we make 1 or 2 major OL additions.
RE: RE: Somehow I just know it will be Devin Singletary
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
Just take the L on this, bavaro. On top of the numerous examples you were provided to prove my point, now we have a Bills "special teams ace" coming in for a visit tomorrow.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Somehow I just know it will be Devin Singletary
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
you are taking issue w the word obsession, which i agree isnt the word id choose bc its generaaly a negative implication, but they have a clear tendency to reach back for players they know well. i dont think thats a negative but it is a reality.
every front office/coaching staff fills in holes with players they know or have worked with in the past. Those players probably already know their system so it just makes it easier to get them plugged in.
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
you are taking issue w the word obsession, which i agree isnt the word id choose bc its generaaly a negative implication, but they have a clear tendency to reach back for players they know well. i dont think thats a negative but it is a reality.
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
I buy pff numbers but not with my eyes closed to context, and I generally look at full samples not just 1 season. Neither has ever handled volume, or produced as many big plays, or been as good in receiving game. That’s why none of the 32 teams are going to pay them as much as barkley.
RE: RE: RE: We need a solid between the tackles threat...
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
Define “as effective”. You also cited PFF as a reason to not want to make a move for Burns. Are we just turning to PFF for every decision or is there more to it than that?
Both RBs are very likely to just be bodies on the Giants. You might be fine with that but our front office shouldn’t. Doesn’t mean you pay Barkley instead but both players leave a lot to be desired.
If the Giants don't improve the OL, you could say that it doesn't matter what QB/Receiver/Tight End/Running Back they draft, or sign -- for this year. . . But they need to look beyond this year, so yes, they should try to acquire good players at every position, players who will be here for the future. Which raises the issue of Waller. Given his injury history, and questionable desire, he has been Schoen's biggest mistake.
I think a lot of these RB's get signed along the lines of what Miles Sanders got last year. 6-8M range. I think 10M might be the ceiling AAV and that might only be a 1-2 year deal.
It would be great if the Giants could get one developmental RB
When you let your VERY few good players you know go….
You sign multiple other players who aren’t relevant difference makers for the money that one difference maker made…. And end up with shit. It’s what will happen with McKinney as well in the secondary.
Just consistent crap - “don’t pay this guy”. But pay mediocrity - on repeat
Or let’s pay our own mediocrity 40 a year and let our good players go cause we fckd that up.
If they aren’t signing Barkley they should just draft Ray Davis mid round and go with him and gray.
When you let your VERY few good players you know go….
You sign multiple other players who aren’t relevant difference makers for the money that one difference maker made…. And end up with shit. It’s what will happen with McKinney as well in the secondary.
Just consistent crap - “don’t pay this guy”. But pay mediocrity - on repeat
Or let’s pay our own mediocrity 40 a year and let our good players go cause we fckd that up.
If they aren’t signing Barkley they should just draft Ray Davis mid round and go with him and gray.
Giants made very fair and frankly more than he deserves offers to Barkley and he turned them down twice last year and again in the last few weeks.
2nd this but it depends on price.
If Barkley leaves, they had better have a decent vet backup on the roster.
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.
2nd this but it depends on price.
I agree but I also don’t like either player. I’d rather Ekeler purely because he should be cheaper
Eagles need a RB, what do they do, they trade for DeAndre Swift (a 2025 4th round pick and swapped 2023 7ths with DET).
if they had signed a FA RB they very likely wouldn't have the same comp picks they have this draft.
signing a FA RB like Ekeler or Pollard probably cancels out whatever gain they'd get from losing Barkley so it would be like signing the player and losing a pick for doing so.
despite the other issues with these two specifically, it's just not smart football business.
Quote:
Unless by some miracle they are relatively cheap. I would much prefer Ekeler but the smart play is to draft a RB in round 3 or 4 and sign a cheaper veteran as depth.
If Barkley leaves, they had better have a decent vet backup on the roster.
Agreed…..they can’t go into the draft hungry, as they say. There’s only so many draft picks and we don’t know how the board is going to fall come draft day. Need a replacement for Barkley if he leaves, if that means we spend a little to get a young vet, then so be it.
Eckler is a perfect fit scheme wise but he is always hurt and on the wrong side of his career.
Players like AJ Dillon or D'onta Foreman for example with a Moss shouldn't be much.
Can you provide examples of this obsession?
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
i think people are over-concerned about whoever the RB ends up being - the choice is basically this:
spend 3-6m of cap on a veteran for basically 1 year, draft a RB early
spend 8-10m of cap on barkley for basically 2 years, draft a RB a little later if necessary
i still think theres at least a 50/50 they bring back barkley bc it's the best value, but generally people are over-concerned. the scale of $ is not big either way.
Quote:
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
Quote:
In comment 16423206 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Quote:
In comment 16423212 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 16423206 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
Quote:
In comment 16423225 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16423212 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 16423206 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
Just take the L on this, bavaro. On top of the numerous examples you were provided to prove my point, now we have a Bills "special teams ace" coming in for a visit tomorrow.
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
you are taking issue w the word obsession, which i agree isnt the word id choose bc its generaaly a negative implication, but they have a clear tendency to reach back for players they know well. i dont think thats a negative but it is a reality.
Quote:
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
you are taking issue w the word obsession, which i agree isnt the word id choose bc its generaaly a negative implication, but they have a clear tendency to reach back for players they know well. i dont think thats a negative but it is a reality.
Fair point Eric
Quote:
go get Gus Edwards and/or Singletary.
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
Spend it on the o line.
Spend it on the o line.
We did, and his 17 carries really showed what a great pick he was.
Honestly, Daboll gets a pass on his mishandling of the running game. Blame it on the line, sure, but he barely involved running backs after SB.
What do we have in Eric Gray? Who even knows. He's basically a rookie.
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In comment 16423248 bw in dc said:
Quote:
go get Gus Edwards and/or Singletary.
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
I buy pff numbers but not with my eyes closed to context, and I generally look at full samples not just 1 season. Neither has ever handled volume, or produced as many big plays, or been as good in receiving game. That’s why none of the 32 teams are going to pay them as much as barkley.
Quote:
In comment 16423248 bw in dc said:
Quote:
go get Gus Edwards and/or Singletary.
there may be cheaper players than barkley but those 2 arent doing anything better than he did it between the tackles or otherwise.
PFF rated, overall and running, both Edwards (28/27th) and Singletary (24/18th) better than SB in 2023.
If you buy PFF's results, and let's say they are 85-90% reliable, both Edwards and Singletary will likely be half the annual costs for SB and almost as effective.
Define “as effective”. You also cited PFF as a reason to not want to make a move for Burns. Are we just turning to PFF for every decision or is there more to it than that?
Both RBs are very likely to just be bodies on the Giants. You might be fine with that but our front office shouldn’t. Doesn’t mean you pay Barkley instead but both players leave a lot to be desired.
If the Giants don't improve the OL, you could say that it doesn't matter what QB/Receiver/Tight End/Running Back they draft, or sign -- for this year. . . But they need to look beyond this year, so yes, they should try to acquire good players at every position, players who will be here for the future. Which raises the issue of Waller. Given his injury history, and questionable desire, he has been Schoen's biggest mistake.
He had a nice year last year with the Texans.
I think a lot of these RB's get signed along the lines of what Miles Sanders got last year. 6-8M range. I think 10M might be the ceiling AAV and that might only be a 1-2 year deal.
You sign multiple other players who aren’t relevant difference makers for the money that one difference maker made…. And end up with shit. It’s what will happen with McKinney as well in the secondary.
Just consistent crap - “don’t pay this guy”. But pay mediocrity - on repeat
Or let’s pay our own mediocrity 40 a year and let our good players go cause we fckd that up.
If they aren’t signing Barkley they should just draft Ray Davis mid round and go with him and gray.
You sign multiple other players who aren’t relevant difference makers for the money that one difference maker made…. And end up with shit. It’s what will happen with McKinney as well in the secondary.
Just consistent crap - “don’t pay this guy”. But pay mediocrity - on repeat
Or let’s pay our own mediocrity 40 a year and let our good players go cause we fckd that up.
If they aren’t signing Barkley they should just draft Ray Davis mid round and go with him and gray.
Giants made very fair and frankly more than he deserves offers to Barkley and he turned them down twice last year and again in the last few weeks.
Time for them to move on.
Quote:
In comment 16423225 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16423212 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 16423206 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
because of the Buffalo Bills obsession by our current FO/coaching staff.
I count four current players.
Tyrod, Hodgins. McCloud. Basham. None of whom are irreplaceable.
Wouldn’t exactly classify that as an obsession
theyve added probably more than a dozen players they drafted/signed in buf over 2 offseasons - including 2 rbs.
antonio williams, breida, feliciano, douglas, tyrod, foster, webb, anderson, gillan, beasley, crowder, sweeney, probably missing a few others too.
if barkley leaves moss and singletary are probably somewhere pretty high on their list.
Fringe players who they already knew
Some if which didn’t even make the roster
Not an obsession
Singletary and McKenzie from the Bills in 2 days, out of a handful of FA’s. Ready to make an admission here? ;-)