but since it’s a trade, it doesn’t count against the Giants for the comp picks formula, right? If so, they can still potentially recoup a 5th or better later.
better than I thought, since the compensation being discussed was two second round picks. But how many teams were really in a position to trade for Burns given his contract demands? That may have limited the compensation.
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
cap goes up constantly, so the contract will likely not be a problem, even with Jones's $22M cap hit next when he's released.
Remember also that although he is untradable now, there is at least a small chance we could trade Jones this time next year, especially if we absorb some of his salary.
Kudos again to Schoen to holding the compensation to only a second this year and a fifth next year. He's had a very good day IMO.
You could miss out on all your top targets between 39 and 47. I think it is pick 47 as that is what was reported by the asshat. Schoen sweetened the deal slightly with the future 5th from the seahawks. He basically traded a half year rental of Lenny for Brian Burns. Outstanding.
better than I thought, since the compensation being discussed was two second round picks. But how many teams were really in a position to trade for Burns given his contract demands? That may have limited the compensation.
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
Good point - so at the end of the day we've effectively exchanged Leonard Williams for Brian Burns. That's good roster building.
better than I thought, since the compensation being discussed was two second round picks. But how many teams were really in a position to trade for Burns given his contract demands? That may have limited the compensation.
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
The Texans, Redskins, Eagles & Vikings were in on it at some point.
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
·
3m
Specifically, the Giants are sending the 39th overall pick, along with the 2015 fifth-rounder to Carolina, for Brian Burns. New York still has the 47th pick, which it landed from Seattle in the Leonard Williams trade.
That’s the type of player and position you pay for and let’s face it, salaries are only going up. Nice trade….hoping both he and KT form a formidable duo! We owe the NFC East.
This shuts me up real quick. This was probably the only move on D that could shut me up and kudos to the giants and Schoen. They got the guy we needed.
From the Leonard Williams trade through McK, it all makes so much more sense now.
do think this makes a trade up for a QB somewhat less likely, if only because we have less draft ammunition. It might also not be necessary since with the Falcons signing Cousins, Minnesota, Denver, and Las Vegas are the only teams with a realistic chance of jumping ahead of us. And they would have to offer a ton just to get to #5.
there will be good players available, cost of a trade up would be like a 4th if there is someone so good they need to move up.
Yeah I guess so, I just really love the WRs in rd2 and at 47 instead of 39 we could miss out on say Troy Franklin and Adonai Mitchell, but I'd be happy to settle for Xavier Leggette as I have thr strongest gut feeling for him out of the 3 and I think XL will go 3rd out of that bunch and likely be there at pick 47.
But we walk away with a legit edge, 2 upgrades on the OL and a competent RB. Honestly, not a bad day given the 2 big losses. We’re probably still in the running for comp picks next offseason too.
is the greatest... and one is that you can get some amazing inside deal info before it actually happens!!! And as a bonus, the guy who owns the site is one of the most knowledgeable Giants football fan around!
That’s the type of player and position you pay for and let’s face it, salaries are only going up. Nice trade….hoping both he and KT form a formidable duo! We owe the NFC East.
I don't think we are a 30 million dollar a year player away from competing but whatever. He is a damn good player and I hope he can continue to improve
I don't think we are a 30 million dollar a year player away from competing but whatever. He is a damn good player and I hope he can continue to improve
Ordinarily yes, but the trade compensation is significantly below what the comps say and we needed to seriously upgrade our pass rush. Where we are in the draft it looked like the sweet spot for pass rushers was more in the 15-25 area which means also losing out on a QB.
Makes me less salty about losing good players earlier
Can win with stop gaps and can’t build with it either
Build with building blocks and the dl is now a big one
Burns is a younger version and virtual clone of Josh Allen (edge) - both in terms of his physical traits as well as his performance in the league since being drafted in the first round in 2019. So it feels very much like the ultimate righting of the ship that went so awry since Gettleman made precisely the wrong pick in the first round of the 2019 draft. Now Schoen just needs to finish the job...
Makes me less salty about losing good players earlier
Can win with stop gaps and can’t build with it either
Build with building blocks and the dl is now a big one
we've been on the same page today across the board. should have extended barkley last year. cut waller and the cap is in the same place it is now.
Burns is a younger version and virtual clone of Josh Allen (edge) - both in terms of his physical traits as well as his performance in the league since being drafted in the first round in 2019. So it feels very much like the ultimate righting of the ship that went so awry since Gettleman made precisely the wrong pick in the first round of the 2019 draft. Now Schoen just needs to finish the job...
I don't think we are a 30 million dollar a year player away from competing but whatever. He is a damn good player and I hope he can continue to improve
Thats the great part of getting a long term deal on a 25 year-old - we have a large window with an extremely talented group of core players at hard-to-find positions.
We’re just one amazing draft in the next couple years from being relevant.
I don't think we are a 30 million dollar a year player away from competing but whatever. He is a damn good player and I hope he can continue to improve
This is such a stupid reason not to get a good young player.
But we walk away with a legit edge, 2 upgrades on the OL and a competent RB. Honestly, not a bad day given the 2 big losses. We’re probably still in the running for comp picks next offseason too.
Not in line for comp picks as it stands now. They are minus 1 - lost 2, added 3. Jackson will likely make it even. Not sure anyone else will get a big enough deal to get anything but a 7th.
But we walk away with a legit edge, 2 upgrades on the OL and a competent RB. Honestly, not a bad day given the 2 big losses. We’re probably still in the running for comp picks next offseason too.
Not in line for comp picks as it stands now. They are minus 1 - lost 2, added 3. Jackson will likely make it even. Not sure anyone else will get a big enough deal to get anything but a 7th.
the comp formula isn't simple a 1 for 1 game. AAV comes into play. We haven't signed anyone near McKinney's 17 MM per.
I don't have a full answer for you, but he was 10th in the NFL in tackles for loss last year. The panthers also Blitz a lot.
If you believe in PFF, his run defense grade was 56.3, vs a pass rush grade of 75.6. That run defense grade would put him in the same group as Leonard Floyd or Frank Clark.
nfl owners have 2 jobs since money isnt really a factor, hire good people and let them work. this nyg regime hasnt been perfect but they've shown some real flashes of promise, and some really creative resource manipulation.
be proud of Schoen here because as I posted, a week or so ago, it was two 2s...one this year and one in another year.
No doubt. A great trade for the Giants and kudos to Schoen on this one. But a real head scratcher for the Panthers especially in light of the Hunt contract???? Prioritizing a guard over an edge rusher? Tepper needs to have his head examined!
RE: remember when tepper was the savant everyone wished mara was?
nfl owners have 2 jobs since money isnt really a factor, hire good people and let them work. this nyg regime hasnt been perfect but they've shown some real flashes of promise, and some really creative resource manipulation.
Yeah, at this point he's worse than Gettleman. I'm not sure what he's thinking.
As someone who lives down here, a lot of people were hopeful with Tepper because Richardson, uh, wasn't a good dude. But Tepper has been a disaster thus far.
& this is coming from someone who couldn't GAF about the Panthers. My neighbors are Panther fans. The Giants really have no history, absent that '05 WC game, with them.
Azeez Ojulari is now the 4th best pass rusher on the Giants.
Last year was his first as a LB in a 3-4? Prior to that, when his stats were better, he was a DE in a 4-3. I know there were other variables last year too.
Im thrilled and at the same time not. If that makes sense. I’m nervous because that’s a lot of money to throw at a player that you could have gotten the same production from a player like Leonard Floyd. Also, somehow when players get paid crazy money, their performance and production seems to drop sometimes. Anyone else think they might have overpaid?
Im thrilled and at the same time not. If that makes sense. I’m nervous because that’s a lot of money to throw at a player that you could have gotten the same production from a player like Leonard Floyd. Also, somehow when players get paid crazy money, their performance and production seems to drop sometimes. Anyone else think they might have overpaid?
In the few Panthers’ games I watched here in NC, Burns looked the heart and soul of the Carolina defense … reminded me of Bobby O with the Colts the year before …
This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
Olivier Vernon?? Um, no, not even close. At all
We'll get a better idea of whether he's overpaid or not when the
This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
If he hits 30 million that means he hit all his incentives ... so Yes I would be happy paying him 30 Mil!
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
we gave up a 2nd and 5th and gave him 2x apy 3x total contract
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
First of all it is 150 MAX contract. Not sure if you guys can't understand that. Like you say Barkley contract is 3/38.5, but really he has a MAX contract of 3/46. Those aren't exact numbers, but it is the same thing. If they only reported Barkleys numbers as the MAX numbers people would be laughing to the bank.
Second of all... Floyd will be 32 years old this year and went to a team that almost won the super bowl. You aren't getting Floyd for 2/20. It would have cost us much more for a 32 year old Edge. Huff, who is horrible against the run went to Philly for 16 per and again you would of had to pay more. People that say oh look this player went for 2/20 we should have signed that. Well guess what we aren't the same as SF so said player won't come for that cheap to us.
RE: we gave up a 2nd and 5th and gave him 2x apy 3x total contract
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
Because while Burns isn’t great against the run, he can at least be passable in the right scheme. Huff was strictly a third down player for the Jets on a defense that lived on pass rush + Sauce.
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
There is a report they will exchange 5th round picks this year. See front page.
Why are people saying Burns is not great against the run?
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
Solder was a 30-year old OL who had never been to the Pro Bowl or considered even one of the better tackles in the game.
Burns is 25, a two-time Pro Bowler, who has 46 sacks and 95 QB hits in just a few seasons.
Yeah, but besides that, they are exactly the same.
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
Burns more bend or burst than Vernon but Vernon had his moments and was very good against the run. Plus we were later able to trade Vernon for Ziegler who was good here.
Giants essentially traded McKinney and Leonard Williams for Burns, both in terms of money allocation and the very players themselves. I liked both, but that’s fine by me.
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
exactly... Another reason why their predictable pass rush was one of the worst in the league. I just made that up, but really come on tell me you don't want those numbers for all teams.
Schoen and nyg had the guts to pull this move off. Love the emphasis on the pass rusher. Love the emphasis on defense overall even with the loss of McKinney. Take a strength and build on it. That’s what we did today…
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
saw a stat i cant find now that CAR D didnt play 1 snap in 4Q w/ lead
all season last year. the guy made 2 of the last 3 pro bowls and started both of them.
even with the down year his production stacks up with anyone other than nick bosa, tj watt, or myles garrett. those guys arent 25 years old or currently available. for a 2nd round pick this is a move you have to make.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
This is so funny... TJ Watt got that money in 2021. For example last year Nick Bosa got 5 year 170. This year with even more cap Burns got 5 years 150 MAX we still don't know real numbers. If TJ Watt was 26 and signing a contract this year he would be 5 year for 200 million. He isn't getting TJ Watt money.
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
Who? Can’t believe there’s still people out there who think you can just handpick whatever OL you want from the magic FA tooth fairy.
There weren’t great options available. The Giants got decent value from the market. They’re going to have to reinforce the OL through the draft.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
The problem is then you are relying on the same cadre of QB’s as last year. I am not a fan of Penix or Nix, but both are likely to go before 39.
I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
that their owner is a weirdo. In fact the league must be concerned about the ownership of some of these teams . The Titans and Seahawks also come to mind . The contract is good . The trade compensation is a joke . Nice job by Schoen.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
RE: RE: RE: RE: When your team gives up draft capital
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: When your team gives up draft capital
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
I can see you saying that if we traded for a 29 year old player... 25 is almost the age of some of these rookies. In fact Verse will be 24 this year a year and some months younger.
RE: I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
when miami added tyreek who thought that would catapult them as a team the way it did?
SF took their initial big leap forward as a team when they drafted bosa. armstead and buckner and all the other guys they had all of sudden looked a lot better.
burns, thibs, lawrence, okereke, banks is a legitimate core on defense to build from - all signed for 3 more years or more.
more work to do on the OL but the cap is not an issue even after burns and there are a lot of solid depth players still out there who are going to end up with reasonable 1-2 year deals.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
RE: RE: I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
That’s a really good point and something I recalled when I first heard of the news today. Burns brings energy on every play. I didn’t follow Carolina closely and I don’t know if he was the heart and soul of the defense but it sure looked that way each time I saw him. A high effort, vocal leader type and not in an obnoxious way (at least not on the field). Great talent and a smart locker room add.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.
this is really his first truly flat out - sign that maybe they see the error of some of what they did last year. jones' low year 1 cap# was a lot more aggressive than i expected last year.
even though what we gave up is a concern, it's going to be fun to see what these guys are going to do. Brian Burns is one of the funnest pass rushers to watch. Dude is nasty. Burns, Thibs, Dex, Ojulari, Simmons, and Okereke?? Speed.. Bringing back the old days where you can't have enough pass rushers feels good. Now fix the Oline. Spidey - ( New Window )
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
The new defensive coordinator doesn't blitz much, so he has to get a
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
He's a young proven player at a premium position. The chances are very high you aren't getting a player at Burns level in the 2nd round of the draft. You have to start somewhere, the Giants are in the process of finally building an identity. Next on the list is QB.
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
He's a young proven player at a premium position. The chances are very high you aren't getting a player at Burns level in the 2nd round of the draft. You have to start somewhere, the Giants are in the process of finally building an identity. Next on the list is QB.
i understand the move. i'm just saying....
if we run it back with DJ and company, we're definetely going to have a terrible record.
if we draft a QB and sit him a year, we are looking at having a losing record this upcoming year and next.
we should be "decent" heading into the 2026 season, but who knows.
so the weird part is just...what's the point in having the 2nd highest paid DE in history on your team for the next 3 years when there's likely not going to be a good return on investment (team wise)
yes, he'll have double digit sacks this year and next. but we'll probably have double digit losses as well
so the weird part is just...what's the point in having the 2nd highest paid DE in history on your team for the next 3 years when there's likely not going to be a good return on investment (team wise)
yes, he'll have double digit sacks this year and next. but we'll probably have double digit losses as well
I agree that it is a slight overpay for Burns compared to other top edge rushers in the NFL, but the cost to acquire him was quite low relative to what other teams have given up in draft capital to acquire similar pass rushers.
Edge is a premium position where teams either have to use a 1st round pick to get the most talented players or give up draft assets to pay the player a large extension. I think Schoen should be given credit for reducing the draft capital needed to get Burns, but only time will tell if he lives up to the contract value. Regardless the money spent on Edge is likely better long term value in terms of total wins than money spent on RB or Safety. If Giants want to go to the SB, then they need to start building the OL and DL at some point. What better time than now?
Dak has been very good during the regular season but elite QB's get it done in the playoffs. I give him a lot of credit for he developed. 4th round steal.
Dallas did a great job supporting him when he came into the league with a top OL/running game. Giants would be well served following the same approach if they draft a QB.
even though what we gave up is a concern, it's going to be fun to see what these guys are going to do. Brian Burns is one of the funnest pass rushers to watch. Dude is nasty. Burns, Thibs, Dex, Ojulari, Simmons, and Okereke?? Speed.. Bringing back the old days where you can't have enough pass rushers feels good. Now fix the Oline. Spidey - ( New Window )
Ojulari is hurt all the time..Burns is probably going to replace him
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
Building thru the draft is fine, but I don't see the issue with investing in a player that's 25 years old with proven production. He's the same age as Dexter Lawrence. Should they not has paid Dexter? You know he can play at a high level. Building thru the draft is great. They did that. They ended up with Thibs and Ojulari. Two picks that were applauded at the time but also aren't enough to make a defense good.
So what? Daniels is a rookie and may or may not be in DC. Hurts fell on his face last year. Dak is Dak, nothing new.
point was....
i don't see how adding Burns (and making him the 2nd highest paid DE in NFL history) helps us in the next 3-4 years
to me, this feels similar to us trading for Leonard Williams, then giving him a new deal. all while being a terrible team overall
Well for 1, Burns is better than Williams was at the time. Nobody was trading for Williams except Gettleman, meanwhile Carolina had a monster offer from one of the smarter FO's in the league for Burns. Second, acquiring Williams in a vacuum wasn't the issue at all. Actually it wound up being a good move. It was the rest of the roster building that left the Giants in the hole they're in.
In the NFL, you need impact talent at premium positions
The Giants should only acquire talent when they're good? I'd get the argument that they're not ready if Burns were 30, maybe even 28. He's 25. If the Giants rebuild the right way he might be 27 by the time they're a playoff team. This "not one X away" cliche is so old and ridiculous. Teams can't acquire talent because they're not perfect. Once again, I'd get it if he were 30. But this bellyaching about acquiring Burns at 25 because the team is rebuilding is crazy. Leonard Williams never got a good team around him. But that's on management for not getting him a good team. If Burns doesn't get a good team around him in the time frame Williams didn't then there are far bigger problems. Wasn't Williams on the 2016 AND 2022 teams? He was on two playoff teams.
Actually, I don't think Williams was on the 2016 team
lets a guy like Burns get a way for that price. Shit I was cranky when the Giants traded Leonard Williams away for a SECOND rounder, nearly the same price we paid for Burns. I understood the trade don't get me wrong, but was bummed to see a good player walk. I got it, would have done it again even without the Burns trade, but I had to process it first. If the Giants traded away a guy like Burns I would have been pissed off. The fact they dealt him for a 2nd and whatever else? I would have lost my mind. Those guys are worth so much more, big contract or not. He's our now so fuck stupid Carolina.
I wish we could draft a good nasty middle LB in round 2 and get that kid ready for NFL action right away, year one. This D is not far away assuming we can fill McK's spot adequately.
I guess I should wait and see how this DC treats the LB position
we may not need another LB as much, plus we do have the 3rd year kid (McFadden) who showed he can play even if he gets washed sometimes. I can't believe we have 3 legit stud talents at LB. With one big move the D, holes and all, turned into a very interesting unit.
RE: A lot of mind numbing stupidity in this thread
The Giants should only acquire talent when they're good?
that's not what anyone on here is saying.
i'm just saying that we went out and bought a ferrari....and parked it at our trailer park beside our ford escorts and VW beetles (damn i'm old)
I have been beating this drum for years now, this isn't some new ideal from me. I have long said The Giants will take this division back by building a real fucking defense again. We all know the offense's shortcomings and needs, but the D is just as important. The east with Philly and Dallas is loaded on offense. Good QBs and great skill players. OLS that can block. Back to those QBs, yes they are good, yes they kill us usually, but they aren't great. Those guys can be had. Good defenses can and will fuck them up. Even the best QBs ever can't beat the elite defenses with regularity. We just saw it this past year. We will see it again. You want to beat Dak and Dallas? Knock Dak's dick in the dirt and you will beat Dallas again. HE's good, but Dak will crumble if you pressure and confuse him. Same with Hurts.
We take this division back building a real defense with staying power. We haven't built one with any legs since the mid to late 2000s into 2011. Schoen gets it. And I am quite relieved to know this. Since he's been here he's devoted ample attention to the D, finally. Keep going.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
That's a lot of guaranteed money, but it's a good move for what they gave up. They still have a second round pick this year, via the Williams trade last year. TBH, I didn't see this one coming. From reports, the Rams had offered the Panthers two first round picks earlier in this process, and the Panthers said no? That's not smart, if you don't keep the player.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
That's a lot of guaranteed money, but it's a good move for what they gave up. They still have a second round pick this year, via the Williams trade last year. TBH, I didn't see this one coming. From reports, the Rams had offered the Panthers two first round picks earlier in this process, and the Panthers said no? That's not smart, if you don't keep the player.
That offer was supposedly last offseason.
the 2 FRP offer was in October 2022 by LAR but they had no 2023 FRP
bc of the stafford trade so they were likely offering their 2024 and 2025 FRPs. Carolina should have still taken it, but they wouldnt have had burns for 1.5 years and still wouldn't have returned any compensation yet.
they'd probably have pick #19 instead of pick #39, plus the rams first in 2025.
I don't think we are a 30 million dollar a year player away from competing but whatever. He is a damn good player and I hope he can continue to improve
I don't agree w/ the mentality of "we're not an X player away.."
You have to add talent when the opportunity is there and a lot of times, you don't even know when you're "X player away".
Were we a high priced WR away from a SB in 2005 when we signed Plax? No, but he sure as heck helped us win it in '07.
The second-round pick is a quality asset, but it’s worth the price for a pass rusher who figures to remain on an upward trajectory for a few more years.
that their owner is a weirdo. In fact the league must be concerned about the ownership of some of these teams . The Titans and Seahawks also come to mind . The contract is good . The trade compensation is a joke . Nice job by Schoen.
I couldn't help to think since this happened, that this is a steal for the Giants in terms of comp. a 2nd? For a premier Edge...
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
Building thru the draft is fine, but I don't see the issue with investing in a player that's 25 years old with proven production. He's the same age as Dexter Lawrence. Should they not has paid Dexter? You know he can play at a high level. Building thru the draft is great. They did that. They ended up with Thibs and Ojulari. Two picks that were applauded at the time but also aren't enough to make a defense good.
That is kind of a good point... Would you trade a 2nd and a 5th to add another Dexter? I would... take pick 47 now and give me another 25 year old Lawrence.
even though what we gave up is a concern, it's going to be fun to see what these guys are going to do. Brian Burns is one of the funnest pass rushers to watch. Dude is nasty. Burns, Thibs, Dex, Ojulari, Simmons, and Okereke?? Speed.. Bringing back the old days where you can't have enough pass rushers feels good. Now fix the Oline. Spidey - ( New Window )
One aspect of this signing that I don't think has gotten much attention is how Burns can help someone like Neal in practice. There are not many players in the league with his kind of "get off", let alone on the Giants. Practicing against this type of speed rusher should help our tackles get a lot better against speed rushers.
Not sure if this was pointed out in previous threads -
5th is 2025
Seems like a good deal for a perennial pro bowler that is at a position of need & is only 25.
Which 2?
Finally.
Finally.
WTF, I agree with you again.
"The walls in the 16th precinct were bleeding.. we are talking real.world end of tines styff here, Cats and Digs living together mass hysteria..
rumor was 47
And is the 5th, this year or next?
+1000 ...Has the clutching of the pearls stopped yet?
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
I am still hoping it's Maye..
Quote:
Panthers board on reddit is LIVID about the compensation. They legit thought 1st and 3rd
rumor was 47
Hoping it is the LW 2nd round pick.
We had to make this kind of move, especially on defense. Love it. LOVE IT!
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
Finally.
I...I...think we're gonna be...ok?
Let's gooo
Let's gooo
This made me laugh lol
That is max deal... Like Barkley's max deal is 3/47... so we have to wait to see if it something like 5/135 with 150 max.
There was no way the Panthers were getting a first when the Giants had to pay him.
Quote:
Panthers board on reddit is LIVID about the compensation. They legit thought 1st and 3rd
rumor was 47
If he managed to hold onto the higher 2 it kinda feels like a masterstroke...
Remember also that although he is untradable now, there is at least a small chance we could trade Jones this time next year, especially if we absorb some of his salary.
Kudos again to Schoen to holding the compensation to only a second this year and a fifth next year. He's had a very good day IMO.
Quote:
In comment 16426393 j_rud said:
Quote:
Panthers board on reddit is LIVID about the compensation. They legit thought 1st and 3rd
rumor was 47
If he managed to hold onto the higher 2 it kinda feels like a masterstroke...
We didn't. We traded 39 for Burns
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
Good point - so at the end of the day we've effectively exchanged Leonard Williams for Brian Burns. That's good roster building.
I don't care which second round pick we gave up since they are both so close in that round. Remember also that we have an extra fifth next year from Seattle as part of the Williams trade. That just leaves the contract, which is enormous, but I guess that's what you have to pay for elite pass rushers. I just think about the Rams drafting Kobie Turner and Byron Young in the third round last year and getting 17 sacks from them.
The Texans, Redskins, Eagles & Vikings were in on it at some point.
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
Agreed, very good day.
Now trade down in the draft. Recoup the 2nd round pick and then draft one of JJM, Nix. Penix. Pratt to replace Jones.
Any of those qb have a higher ceiling than Jones and are cost controlled.
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
I think it has been a very good day.
Let's gooo
One good thing about you, nothing.. A fucking fucking nothing! You are as welcomed to NY thread as Joss Whedon is to Buffy reunions...
Quote:
Let the overvalued RB and S walk.
Finally.
I...I...think we're gonna be...ok?
Still one domino left to fall.
Quote:
In comment 16426407 Jonesin 4 A Ship said:
Quote:
In comment 16426393 j_rud said:
Quote:
Panthers board on reddit is LIVID about the compensation. They legit thought 1st and 3rd
rumor was 47
If he managed to hold onto the higher 2 it kinda feels like a masterstroke...
We didn't. We traded 39 for Burns
Dam that hurts.
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
·
3m
Specifically, the Giants are sending the 39th overall pick, along with the 2015 fifth-rounder to Carolina, for Brian Burns. New York still has the 47th pick, which it landed from Seattle in the Leonard Williams trade.
To Panthers: Pick No. 39 and a
2025 fifth rounder
Also a fifth-round pick swap, per source.
Quote:
2nd and 5th
Seems like a good deal for a perennial pro bowler that is at a position of need & is only 25.
and $150,000,000 😂
Quote:
In comment 16426375 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
2nd and 5th
Seems like a good deal for a perennial pro bowler that is at a position of need & is only 25.
and $150,000,000 😂
It'll be less than that. That's the max value. Still a ton of money, but stud pass rushers like him don't typically hit free agency.
100% agree
That's for future Joe Schoen to figure out lol
From the Leonard Williams trade through McK, it all makes so much more sense now.
Hope not, that pick is the Giants starting OG.
longer than Thibs.
Yeah I guess so, I just really love the WRs in rd2 and at 47 instead of 39 we could miss out on say Troy Franklin and Adonai Mitchell, but I'd be happy to settle for Xavier Leggette as I have thr strongest gut feeling for him out of the 3 and I think XL will go 3rd out of that bunch and likely be there at pick 47.
longer than Thibs.
Probably right. Giants have a bad habit of letting good draft choices walk after their rookie contract.
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
Just curious, why did you add Coughlin? I know he signed, but what value Do you see he brings? Is he that good on ST?
We had to make this kind of move, especially on defense. Love it. LOVE IT!
It's a pass rusher vs RB and Safety. This trade-off - if you will - shouldn't be close in your mind.
our #39 in second round.
Quote:
Runyan
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
Just curious, why did you add Coughlin? I know he signed, but what value Do you see he brings? Is he that good on ST?
Yes he is very good ST player
Link - ( New Window )
Thib
Dex
Banks
Okereke
🔥
is the greatest... and one is that you can get some amazing inside deal info before it actually happens!!! And as a bonus, the guy who owns the site is one of the most knowledgeable Giants football fan around!
He may be gone while Brian Burns is still here.
and "sexy" on that same line...
And even slowed down the whining on BBI.
LOL
Great move!
Quote:
Runyan
Elumenuer
Singletary
Gunnar
Coughin
Burns
Just curious, why did you add Coughlin? I know he signed, but what value Do you see he brings? Is he that good on ST?
Yes, obviously.
Very good special teamer. Good guy. Been around for awhile and just generally happy to see him back when it looked like he wouldn’t be.
Looking at that site, I pray Eric never changes the BBI format. I think I’m fucking blind after looking at that stupid website.
Ordinarily yes, but the trade compensation is significantly below what the comps say and we needed to seriously upgrade our pass rush. Where we are in the draft it looked like the sweet spot for pass rushers was more in the 15-25 area which means also losing out on a QB.
Quote:
That’s what I’m talking about! Now I can accept letting McKinney walk. Even Barkley.
We had to make this kind of move, especially on defense. Love it. LOVE IT!
It's a pass rusher vs RB and Safety. This trade-off - if you will - shouldn't be close in your mind.
You're not just getting a player. You're making your players better.
Makes me less salty about losing good players earlier
Can win with stop gaps and can’t build with it either
Build with building blocks and the dl is now a big one
Makes me less salty about losing good players earlier
Can win with stop gaps and can’t build with it either
Build with building blocks and the dl is now a big one
we've been on the same page today across the board. should have extended barkley last year. cut waller and the cap is in the same place it is now.
Excellent
I honestly think that fat old drunk DC wanted him to play more like Jihad Ward then like Miles Garret.
I think he's on OTC Jason's UFA spreadsheet in yellow next off season. He seems like the kind of player you correctly warn about in UFA.
Hopefully in the coming days we're talking about both in the past tense.
I like your thinking
He and Runyan need to be consultants on a Injury Prevention committee.
Brian Burns comment - ( New Window )
I am still hoping it's Maye..
That depends on the Patriots and Commanders before them.
We’re just one amazing draft in the next couple years from being relevant.
This is such a stupid reason not to get a good young player.
Especially if they plan on starting over at QB this makes a ton of sense.
Much rather spend money on this guy than a RB or a safety.
Not in line for comp picks as it stands now. They are minus 1 - lost 2, added 3. Jackson will likely make it even. Not sure anyone else will get a big enough deal to get anything but a 7th.
Quote:
But we walk away with a legit edge, 2 upgrades on the OL and a competent RB. Honestly, not a bad day given the 2 big losses. We’re probably still in the running for comp picks next offseason too.
Not in line for comp picks as it stands now. They are minus 1 - lost 2, added 3. Jackson will likely make it even. Not sure anyone else will get a big enough deal to get anything but a 7th.
the comp formula isn't simple a 1 for 1 game. AAV comes into play. We haven't signed anyone near McKinney's 17 MM per.
I don't have a full answer for you, but he was 10th in the NFL in tackles for loss last year. The panthers also Blitz a lot.
If you believe in PFF, his run defense grade was 56.3, vs a pass rush grade of 75.6. That run defense grade would put him in the same group as Leonard Floyd or Frank Clark.
The panthers do a lot of strange things. They turned down two first round picks for him last year.
Quote:
I'm happy they did but why would they let Burns walk and instead pay a guard most of that money?
The panthers do a lot of strange things. They turned down two first round picks for him last year.
Insane... i believe it was a 2nd rounder too.
Once you turn down that type of package, you need sign him at all costs.
Very happy the Giants grabbed him. Love this move.
0 is Parris Campbell with coincides with his worth...
Quote:
I hope he doesn’t wear zero though. 55 would look much better while he is ripping QB’s in half!
0 is Parris Campbell with coincides with his worth...
Parris Campbell is not a NYG. So the # is open and I'm pretty certain Burns will be taking it
Quote:
In comment 16426753 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I'm happy they did but why would they let Burns walk and instead pay a guard most of that money?
The panthers do a lot of strange things. They turned down two first round picks for him last year.
Insane... i believe it was a 2nd rounder too.
Once you turn down that type of package, you need sign him at all costs.
Very happy the Giants grabbed him. Love this move.
It was actually two 1st rounders and one 3rd.
Joe took Morgan to the shed. Between Panthers-Bears trade last spring, Carolina is a good trading partner if you want to rob them blind.
Quote:
Burns, Thibideaux and Lawrence on the same line.
this is the giants. They will never all be healthy at the same time. Man I’m like a beaten dog
Love the optimism.
he's done well on trades. even waller trade the compensation was fine, problem was choosing wrong player.
Quote:
I'm happy they did but why would they let Burns walk and instead pay a guard most of that money?
The panthers do a lot of strange things. They turned down two first round picks for him last year.
Strange isn’t the word I would use.
Quote:
be proud of Schoen here because as I posted, a week or so ago, it was two 2s...one this year and one in another year.
Joe took Morgan to the shed. Between Panthers-Bears trade last spring, Carolina is a good trading partner if you want to rob them blind.
It could have been rookie GM Morgan.
Or ghost GMs Mr. and Mrs. David Tepper.
Not sure where that came from but it always seemed steep to me.
No doubt. A great trade for the Giants and kudos to Schoen on this one. But a real head scratcher for the Panthers especially in light of the Hunt contract???? Prioritizing a guard over an edge rusher? Tepper needs to have his head examined!
Yeah, at this point he's worse than Gettleman. I'm not sure what he's thinking.
& this is coming from someone who couldn't GAF about the Panthers. My neighbors are Panther fans. The Giants really have no history, absent that '05 WC game, with them.
Last year you would have said he was 2nd or 1st.
I laughed like crazy!
Quote:
be proud of Schoen here because as I posted, a week or so ago, it was two 2s...one this year and one in another year.
Not sure where that came from but it always seemed steep to me.
The same person who told me some time ago that this deal was happening. He was way ahead of everyone.
In the few Panthers’ games I watched here in NC, Burns looked the heart and soul of the Carolina defense … reminded me of Bobby O with the Colts the year before …
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
And he damn well better make Thibodeaux more impactful as well. No excuses for this guy not to show up every game from now on.
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
Olivier Vernon?? Um, no, not even close. At all
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
If he hits 30 million that means he hit all his incentives ... so Yes I would be happy paying him 30 Mil!
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
You must be a joy to live with...
Vernon's eventual issue was getting banged up and not replicating his strong first year.
That said, Burns is a better pass rusher and play maker than Vernon.
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
First of all it is 150 MAX contract. Not sure if you guys can't understand that. Like you say Barkley contract is 3/38.5, but really he has a MAX contract of 3/46. Those aren't exact numbers, but it is the same thing. If they only reported Barkleys numbers as the MAX numbers people would be laughing to the bank.
Second of all... Floyd will be 32 years old this year and went to a team that almost won the super bowl. You aren't getting Floyd for 2/20. It would have cost us much more for a 32 year old Edge. Huff, who is horrible against the run went to Philly for 16 per and again you would of had to pay more. People that say oh look this player went for 2/20 we should have signed that. Well guess what we aren't the same as SF so said player won't come for that cheap to us.
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
Because while Burns isn’t great against the run, he can at least be passable in the right scheme. Huff was strictly a third down player for the Jets on a defense that lived on pass rush + Sauce.
Add a solid outside corner .....and a center field safety in FA
If we can find another stud DT in the 2nd Rd
This defense will cause problems to teams.
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
There is a report they will exchange 5th round picks this year. See front page.
I know several diehard Panther fans.....they think Brian's is strong against the run.....
Thibs need to get better.
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
Solder was a 30-year old OL who had never been to the Pro Bowl or considered even one of the better tackles in the game.
Burns is 25, a two-time Pro Bowler, who has 46 sacks and 95 QB hits in just a few seasons.
Yeah, but besides that, they are exactly the same.
Quote:
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
Giants essentially traded McKinney and Leonard Williams for Burns, both in terms of money allocation and the very players themselves. I liked both, but that’s fine by me.
Quote:
In comment 16426946 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
exactly... Another reason why their predictable pass rush was one of the worst in the league. I just made that up, but really come on tell me you don't want those numbers for all teams.
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
even with the down year his production stacks up with anyone other than nick bosa, tj watt, or myles garrett. those guys arent 25 years old or currently available. for a 2nd round pick this is a move you have to make.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
As of March 11, 2023, the Giants starting quarterback is Tommy DeVito.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
This is so funny... TJ Watt got that money in 2021. For example last year Nick Bosa got 5 year 170. This year with even more cap Burns got 5 years 150 MAX we still don't know real numbers. If TJ Watt was 26 and signing a contract this year he would be 5 year for 200 million. He isn't getting TJ Watt money.
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
Who? Can’t believe there’s still people out there who think you can just handpick whatever OL you want from the magic FA tooth fairy.
There weren’t great options available. The Giants got decent value from the market. They’re going to have to reinforce the OL through the draft.
Quote:
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Quote:
In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
Quote:
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
The problem is then you are relying on the same cadre of QB’s as last year. I am not a fan of Penix or Nix, but both are likely to go before 39.
Quote:
In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
Quote:
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
Quote:
In comment 16427110 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
Quote:
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
I can see you saying that if we traded for a 29 year old player... 25 is almost the age of some of these rookies. In fact Verse will be 24 this year a year and some months younger.
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
SF took their initial big leap forward as a team when they drafted bosa. armstead and buckner and all the other guys they had all of sudden looked a lot better.
burns, thibs, lawrence, okereke, banks is a legitimate core on defense to build from - all signed for 3 more years or more.
more work to do on the OL but the cap is not an issue even after burns and there are a lot of solid depth players still out there who are going to end up with reasonable 1-2 year deals.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
$23.5m cap number in 2024
apologies for typo
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
Quote:
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Quote:
He’s going to a plus in the locker room
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
That’s a really good point and something I recalled when I first heard of the news today. Burns brings energy on every play. I didn’t follow Carolina closely and I don’t know if he was the heart and soul of the defense but it sure looked that way each time I saw him. A high effort, vocal leader type and not in an obnoxious way (at least not on the field). Great talent and a smart locker room add.
Quote:
In comment 16427213 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.
this is really his first truly flat out - sign that maybe they see the error of some of what they did last year. jones' low year 1 cap# was a lot more aggressive than i expected last year.
Spidey - ( New Window )
I'm glad we're "getting better"
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
It's like only looking at a running backs season yardage instead of YPC, which is a more telling stat.
Carolina was a dumpster fire. They were blown out in the second half of games and teams just ran the ball.
Burns actual efficiency numbers are excellent.
I'm glad we're "getting better"
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
He's a young proven player at a premium position. The chances are very high you aren't getting a player at Burns level in the 2nd round of the draft. You have to start somewhere, the Giants are in the process of finally building an identity. Next on the list is QB.
Quote:
This signing just seems weird to me.
I'm glad we're "getting better"
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
He's a young proven player at a premium position. The chances are very high you aren't getting a player at Burns level in the 2nd round of the draft. You have to start somewhere, the Giants are in the process of finally building an identity. Next on the list is QB.
i understand the move. i'm just saying....
if we run it back with DJ and company, we're definetely going to have a terrible record.
if we draft a QB and sit him a year, we are looking at having a losing record this upcoming year and next.
we should be "decent" heading into the 2026 season, but who knows.
so the weird part is just...what's the point in having the 2nd highest paid DE in history on your team for the next 3 years when there's likely not going to be a good return on investment (team wise)
yes, he'll have double digit sacks this year and next. but we'll probably have double digit losses as well
No elite QB's in the NFCE. Control the defensive front and you are in great shape.
so the weird part is just...what's the point in having the 2nd highest paid DE in history on your team for the next 3 years when there's likely not going to be a good return on investment (team wise)
yes, he'll have double digit sacks this year and next. but we'll probably have double digit losses as well
I agree that it is a slight overpay for Burns compared to other top edge rushers in the NFL, but the cost to acquire him was quite low relative to what other teams have given up in draft capital to acquire similar pass rushers.
Edge is a premium position where teams either have to use a 1st round pick to get the most talented players or give up draft assets to pay the player a large extension. I think Schoen should be given credit for reducing the draft capital needed to get Burns, but only time will tell if he lives up to the contract value. Regardless the money spent on Edge is likely better long term value in terms of total wins than money spent on RB or Safety. If Giants want to go to the SB, then they need to start building the OL and DL at some point. What better time than now?
No elite QB's in the NFCE. Control the defensive front and you are in great shape.
Dak is elite, don't fool yourself
Hurts is dangerous
And Daniels (who alot of us want) will be a problem)
Quote:
Stood out the few times I have seen the Panthers play. Young player with plenty of upside.
No elite QB's in the NFCE. Control the defensive front and you are in great shape.
Dak is elite, don't fool yourself
Hurts is dangerous
And Daniels (who alot of us want) will be a problem)
Dak is a good to maybe VG QB. He is not elite. Guy cannot win in the playoffs with all the weapons he has.
Quote:
In comment 16427331 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Stood out the few times I have seen the Panthers play. Young player with plenty of upside.
No elite QB's in the NFCE. Control the defensive front and you are in great shape.
Dak is elite, don't fool yourself
Hurts is dangerous
And Daniels (who alot of us want) will be a problem)
Dak is a good to maybe VG QB. He is not elite. Guy cannot win in the playoffs with all the weapons he has.
Regular season Dak is high level, imo
We're not making the playoffs so we won't get to face "playoff Dak"
Dallas did a great job supporting him when he came into the league with a top OL/running game. Giants would be well served following the same approach if they draft a QB.
based on that theory (that elite QBs get it done in the playoffs)
Jalen Hurts is kinda elite (took his team to the superbowl/got it done in the playoffs)
Anyway, maybe elite is a strong term for Dak.
But facing reg.season Dak, Hurts and Daniels is still gonna be a problem this year.
Quote:
but elite QB's get it done in the playoffs.
based on that theory (that elite QBs get it done in the playoffs)
Jalen Hurts is kinda elite (took his team to the superbowl/got it done in the playoffs)
Anyway, maybe elite is a strong term for Dak.
But facing reg.season Dak, Hurts and Daniels is still gonna be a problem this year.
So what? Daniels is a rookie and may or may not be in DC. Hurts fell on his face last year. Dak is Dak, nothing new.
So what? Daniels is a rookie and may or may not be in DC. Hurts fell on his face last year. Dak is Dak, nothing new.
point was....
i don't see how adding Burns (and making him the 2nd highest paid DE in NFL history) helps us in the next 3-4 years
to me, this feels similar to us trading for Leonard Williams, then giving him a new deal. all while being a terrible team overall
Ojulari is hurt all the time..Burns is probably going to replace him
Giants drop from 4th to 14th in Tankathon's Draft Power Rankings.
I'm glad we're "getting better"
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
Building thru the draft is fine, but I don't see the issue with investing in a player that's 25 years old with proven production. He's the same age as Dexter Lawrence. Should they not has paid Dexter? You know he can play at a high level. Building thru the draft is great. They did that. They ended up with Thibs and Ojulari. Two picks that were applauded at the time but also aren't enough to make a defense good.
Quote:
So what? Daniels is a rookie and may or may not be in DC. Hurts fell on his face last year. Dak is Dak, nothing new.
point was....
i don't see how adding Burns (and making him the 2nd highest paid DE in NFL history) helps us in the next 3-4 years
to me, this feels similar to us trading for Leonard Williams, then giving him a new deal. all while being a terrible team overall
Well for 1, Burns is better than Williams was at the time. Nobody was trading for Williams except Gettleman, meanwhile Carolina had a monster offer from one of the smarter FO's in the league for Burns. Second, acquiring Williams in a vacuum wasn't the issue at all. Actually it wound up being a good move. It was the rest of the roster building that left the Giants in the hole they're in.
Now, get the QB and WR. Find CB #2, FS, and add DL depth.
I wish we could draft a good nasty middle LB in round 2 and get that kid ready for NFL action right away, year one. This D is not far away assuming we can fill McK's spot adequately.
that's not what anyone on here is saying.
i'm just saying that we went out and bought a ferrari....and parked it at our trailer park beside our ford escorts and VW beetles (damn i'm old)
We take this division back building a real defense with staying power. We haven't built one with any legs since the mid to late 2000s into 2011. Schoen gets it. And I am quite relieved to know this. Since he's been here he's devoted ample attention to the D, finally. Keep going.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
That's a lot of guaranteed money, but it's a good move for what they gave up. They still have a second round pick this year, via the Williams trade last year. TBH, I didn't see this one coming. From reports, the Rams had offered the Panthers two first round picks earlier in this process, and the Panthers said no? That's not smart, if you don't keep the player.
Quote:
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
That's a lot of guaranteed money, but it's a good move for what they gave up. They still have a second round pick this year, via the Williams trade last year. TBH, I didn't see this one coming. From reports, the Rams had offered the Panthers two first round picks earlier in this process, and the Panthers said no? That's not smart, if you don't keep the player.
That offer was supposedly last offseason.
they'd probably have pick #19 instead of pick #39, plus the rams first in 2025.
I don't agree w/ the mentality of "we're not an X player away.."
You have to add talent when the opportunity is there and a lot of times, you don't even know when you're "X player away".
Were we a high priced WR away from a SB in 2005 when we signed Plax? No, but he sure as heck helped us win it in '07.
I couldn't help to think since this happened, that this is a steal for the Giants in terms of comp. a 2nd? For a premier Edge...
Quote:
This signing just seems weird to me.
I'm glad we're "getting better"
But, as of now, our offense is going to be so terrible that having a great defensive player is just going to seem like (and likely be) a waste. I wouldve rather just built thru the draft
Building thru the draft is fine, but I don't see the issue with investing in a player that's 25 years old with proven production. He's the same age as Dexter Lawrence. Should they not has paid Dexter? You know he can play at a high level. Building thru the draft is great. They did that. They ended up with Thibs and Ojulari. Two picks that were applauded at the time but also aren't enough to make a defense good.
That is kind of a good point... Would you trade a 2nd and a 5th to add another Dexter? I would... take pick 47 now and give me another 25 year old Lawrence.
One aspect of this signing that I don't think has gotten much attention is how Burns can help someone like Neal in practice. There are not many players in the league with his kind of "get off", let alone on the Giants. Practicing against this type of speed rusher should help our tackles get a lot better against speed rushers.
I did not read all of them. But, I forgot what year (Very recent though - 2022?). The Rams offerred the Panthers - 2 #1 picks and a #2 pick for Burns.
I think if I am doing the math right we traded Leonard Williams for Burns? We got a serious deal.