This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
Olivier Vernon?? Um, no, not even close. At all
We'll get a better idea of whether he's overpaid or not when the
This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
If he hits 30 million that means he hit all his incentives ... so Yes I would be happy paying him 30 Mil!
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
we gave up a 2nd and 5th and gave him 2x apy 3x total contract
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
First of all it is 150 MAX contract. Not sure if you guys can't understand that. Like you say Barkley contract is 3/38.5, but really he has a MAX contract of 3/46. Those aren't exact numbers, but it is the same thing. If they only reported Barkleys numbers as the MAX numbers people would be laughing to the bank.
Second of all... Floyd will be 32 years old this year and went to a team that almost won the super bowl. You aren't getting Floyd for 2/20. It would have cost us much more for a 32 year old Edge. Huff, who is horrible against the run went to Philly for 16 per and again you would of had to pay more. People that say oh look this player went for 2/20 we should have signed that. Well guess what we aren't the same as SF so said player won't come for that cheap to us.
RE: we gave up a 2nd and 5th and gave him 2x apy 3x total contract
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
Because while Burns isn’t great against the run, he can at least be passable in the right scheme. Huff was strictly a third down player for the Jets on a defense that lived on pass rush + Sauce.
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
There is a report they will exchange 5th round picks this year. See front page.
Why are people saying Burns is not great against the run?
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
Solder was a 30-year old OL who had never been to the Pro Bowl or considered even one of the better tackles in the game.
Burns is 25, a two-time Pro Bowler, who has 46 sacks and 95 QB hits in just a few seasons.
Yeah, but besides that, they are exactly the same.
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
Burns more bend or burst than Vernon but Vernon had his moments and was very good against the run. Plus we were later able to trade Vernon for Ziegler who was good here.
Giants essentially traded McKinney and Leonard Williams for Burns, both in terms of money allocation and the very players themselves. I liked both, but that’s fine by me.
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
exactly... Another reason why their predictable pass rush was one of the worst in the league. I just made that up, but really come on tell me you don't want those numbers for all teams.
Schoen and nyg had the guts to pull this move off. Love the emphasis on the pass rusher. Love the emphasis on defense overall even with the loss of McKinney. Take a strength and build on it. That’s what we did today…
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
saw a stat i cant find now that CAR D didnt play 1 snap in 4Q w/ lead
all season last year. the guy made 2 of the last 3 pro bowls and started both of them.
even with the down year his production stacks up with anyone other than nick bosa, tj watt, or myles garrett. those guys arent 25 years old or currently available. for a 2nd round pick this is a move you have to make.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
This is so funny... TJ Watt got that money in 2021. For example last year Nick Bosa got 5 year 170. This year with even more cap Burns got 5 years 150 MAX we still don't know real numbers. If TJ Watt was 26 and signing a contract this year he would be 5 year for 200 million. He isn't getting TJ Watt money.
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
Who? Can’t believe there’s still people out there who think you can just handpick whatever OL you want from the magic FA tooth fairy.
There weren’t great options available. The Giants got decent value from the market. They’re going to have to reinforce the OL through the draft.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
The problem is then you are relying on the same cadre of QB’s as last year. I am not a fan of Penix or Nix, but both are likely to go before 39.
I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
that their owner is a weirdo. In fact the league must be concerned about the ownership of some of these teams . The Titans and Seahawks also come to mind . The contract is good . The trade compensation is a joke . Nice job by Schoen.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
RE: RE: RE: RE: When your team gives up draft capital
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: When your team gives up draft capital
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
I can see you saying that if we traded for a 29 year old player... 25 is almost the age of some of these rookies. In fact Verse will be 24 this year a year and some months younger.
RE: I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
when miami added tyreek who thought that would catapult them as a team the way it did?
SF took their initial big leap forward as a team when they drafted bosa. armstead and buckner and all the other guys they had all of sudden looked a lot better.
burns, thibs, lawrence, okereke, banks is a legitimate core on defense to build from - all signed for 3 more years or more.
more work to do on the OL but the cap is not an issue even after burns and there are a lot of solid depth players still out there who are going to end up with reasonable 1-2 year deals.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Brian Burns full contract details: 5 years, $141m with $87.5m guaranteed.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
RE: RE: I’ve known Burns and his brother since his FSU days
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
That’s a really good point and something I recalled when I first heard of the news today. Burns brings energy on every play. I didn’t follow Carolina closely and I don’t know if he was the heart and soul of the defense but it sure looked that way each time I saw him. A high effort, vocal leader type and not in an obnoxious way (at least not on the field). Great talent and a smart locker room add.
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
And he damn well better make Thibodeaux more impactful as well. No excuses for this guy not to show up every game from now on.
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
Olivier Vernon?? Um, no, not even close. At all
Is he better than Sweat or Gary or Allen who all are getting 24m per year
For all the people here who constantly complain about salaries are you happy paying 30m
If he hits 30 million that means he hit all his incentives ... so Yes I would be happy paying him 30 Mil!
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
You must be a joy to live with...
Vernon's eventual issue was getting banged up and not replicating his strong first year.
That said, Burns is a better pass rusher and play maker than Vernon.
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
First of all it is 150 MAX contract. Not sure if you guys can't understand that. Like you say Barkley contract is 3/38.5, but really he has a MAX contract of 3/46. Those aren't exact numbers, but it is the same thing. If they only reported Barkleys numbers as the MAX numbers people would be laughing to the bank.
Second of all... Floyd will be 32 years old this year and went to a team that almost won the super bowl. You aren't getting Floyd for 2/20. It would have cost us much more for a 32 year old Edge. Huff, who is horrible against the run went to Philly for 16 per and again you would of had to pay more. People that say oh look this player went for 2/20 we should have signed that. Well guess what we aren't the same as SF so said player won't come for that cheap to us.
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
Because while Burns isn’t great against the run, he can at least be passable in the right scheme. Huff was strictly a third down player for the Jets on a defense that lived on pass rush + Sauce.
Add a solid outside corner .....and a center field safety in FA
If we can find another stud DT in the 2nd Rd
This defense will cause problems to teams.
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
The Giants may have to throw in another pick (uncomfirmed):
"In exchange the Panthers will get the first of two Giants’ 2nd round pick this year – #39 overall – as well as a 2025 5th rounder. There are also unconfirmed reports that the final deal will also include of either 4th or 5th round picks this year."
There is a report they will exchange 5th round picks this year. See front page.
I know several diehard Panther fans.....they think Brian's is strong against the run.....
Thibs need to get better.
Quote:
that howie just gave huff....
why did we do this? why didnt you just go after huff straightout?
This is why I'm not as thrilled as I should be. I'm just concerned we gave up to much! They could of just signed Leonard Floyd or Huff and not given up picks?! I just hope this isn't another Nate Solder move. Not only are we paying a boat load of money, we gave up a valuable 2nd rounder! and 5th! The Giants have many holes to fill including now safety and RB!
Solder was a 30-year old OL who had never been to the Pro Bowl or considered even one of the better tackles in the game.
Burns is 25, a two-time Pro Bowler, who has 46 sacks and 95 QB hits in just a few seasons.
Yeah, but besides that, they are exactly the same.
Quote:
In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
Giants essentially traded McKinney and Leonard Williams for Burns, both in terms of money allocation and the very players themselves. I liked both, but that’s fine by me.
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In comment 16426946 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 16426912 stretch234 said:
[quote] This is no different than them signing Olivier Vernon years ago. You take the chance on a young pass rusher. He is not a good run defender. Being paid like a top 5 pass rusher who has not been close to that in terms of QB hits or pressures
QB Hits (2023)
Josh Sweat 16
Dexter Lawrence 14
Josh Allen 13
Brian Burns 11
Rashan Gary 10
Pressures (2023)
Josh Sweat 37
Josh Allen 46
Rashan Gary 30
Dexter Lawrence 25
Brian Burns 20
Sweat plays on a loaded defense and this is his first really good year.
No shame in not being as good as Josh Allen
Gary is not a better player than Burns
You have to take into account who they play for... Pass rushers make their living on 3rd and longs and when they have a lead and the other team has to throw. The Panthers almost never had the lead late in games.
And the Panthers run D was one of the worst in the league. Teams just didn’t pass that much against them.
exactly... Another reason why their predictable pass rush was one of the worst in the league. I just made that up, but really come on tell me you don't want those numbers for all teams.
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
even with the down year his production stacks up with anyone other than nick bosa, tj watt, or myles garrett. those guys arent 25 years old or currently available. for a 2nd round pick this is a move you have to make.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
As of March 11, 2023, the Giants starting quarterback is Tommy DeVito.
and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
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There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
This is so funny... TJ Watt got that money in 2021. For example last year Nick Bosa got 5 year 170. This year with even more cap Burns got 5 years 150 MAX we still don't know real numbers. If TJ Watt was 26 and signing a contract this year he would be 5 year for 200 million. He isn't getting TJ Watt money.
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There is nothing wrong with being skeptical on paying a guy 150m who has not been a top 10 edge rusher in this league
I get it - you take the chance on the pass rusher. I brought up Vernon for that same reason when they signed him You chance on young pass rushers. Vernons and Burns stats are almost identical through 80 NFL games
I am all for taking the shot with a pass rusher. I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money
This... "I just don’t think we needed to pay him TJ Watt money"
We can discuss this all we want, but the bottom line is that is TJ Watt type of money, plus the extremely valuable 2nd & 5th rds. That kind of money should have been spent on the offensive line!
Who? Can’t believe there’s still people out there who think you can just handpick whatever OL you want from the magic FA tooth fairy.
There weren’t great options available. The Giants got decent value from the market. They’re going to have to reinforce the OL through the draft.
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and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
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In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
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and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
The problem is then you are relying on the same cadre of QB’s as last year. I am not a fan of Penix or Nix, but both are likely to go before 39.
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In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
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and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
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In comment 16427110 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16427105 M.S. said:
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and commits significant dollars to a Brian Burns, is your team in re-build mode or ready to be a serious play-off team?
Or is it not fair to put it in such stark bi-modal terms?
I think this was a gray area where a 25 year old multiple pro bowl pass rusher doesn’t come along every day, the only major pick was a 2nd, and our draft position didn’t lend itself to where the top pass rushers were projected to go. Turner, Verse, and Latu are very clearly above the rest but all are predicted more in the 15-25 range.
You could be right. An alternative scenario for a team in re-build mode would be trade down from 6, draft a cost-controlled EDGE guy like Jared Verse, and add additional draft capital.
Please say you aren't comparing a rookie to a proven Vet. The draft is a crapshoot. It takes time for players usually to come into their own. You are hoping they become Burns. Now you drafted Burns aren't you a get a QB guy. You have no options to get a QB in the 1st now. I would rather have Burns and JJM/Drake/Nabers than Verse and say anybody you would pick at 39.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
When the rumors about Brian Burns grew louder, I felt that a team that is one EDGE guy away from making noise in the playoffs would make a lot of sense. But the Giants are not that sort of team.
I can see you saying that if we traded for a 29 year old player... 25 is almost the age of some of these rookies. In fact Verse will be 24 this year a year and some months younger.
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
SF took their initial big leap forward as a team when they drafted bosa. armstead and buckner and all the other guys they had all of sudden looked a lot better.
burns, thibs, lawrence, okereke, banks is a legitimate core on defense to build from - all signed for 3 more years or more.
more work to do on the OL but the cap is not an issue even after burns and there are a lot of solid depth players still out there who are going to end up with reasonable 1-2 year deals.
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
$23.5m cap number in 2024
apologies for typo
Guarantees: $25m signing bonus, 2024 base salary ($18m), 2025 base salary ($22.5m). His base salary in 2026 is guaranteed for injury at signing; $10.75m of the 2025 salary is fully guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits by year:
2024: $23.3m
2025: $27.75m
2026: $28.75
2027: $30.5m
2028: $30.5
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
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just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
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He’s going to a plus in the locker room
Great to know. I was always impressed with how high energy was on the sidelines and in between plays. And not to the point where it was obnoxious. I think him and 58( I'm doing speech to text... I'm not going to try and say his name),and 5 are going to make a really fun linebacking corps for your years
That’s a really good point and something I recalled when I first heard of the news today. Burns brings energy on every play. I didn’t follow Carolina closely and I don’t know if he was the heart and soul of the defense but it sure looked that way each time I saw him. A high effort, vocal leader type and not in an obnoxious way (at least not on the field). Great talent and a smart locker room add.
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In comment 16427213 Eric on Li said:
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just guessed this completely wrong in a different thread. this is very different than schoen's big contracts last year and in a good way. this is what you would call a pay as you go contract, which imo is usually the best way to structure deals when you can to avoid balloon years.
makes it less likely we see any more big moves this offseason but i think thats the right call, there's nothing big left out there. they can move money around for the right depth signings and the areas where they need depth there's a lot of supply (s, rb, og, cb).
I expect that Eluemunor, Runyon etc won't have huge cap hits in 2024.
We can still restructure/extend Thomas, Lawrence, Okereke, Slayton, Jones (hopefully not) and even Burns if we need extra cap space this year.
Pluse we will find out what is the plan with Waller.
im not worried about the cap they have plenty of room - structuring this deal the way they did is the opposite of desperation.
just surprised because its the first time this regime has structured a deal this way.
Agreed
I like how Schoen etc have structured contracts.
It seems much more sustainable rather than a quick/ short term fix.