Overview
Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence.
Strengths
Prototypical combination of size and arm talent
Full-field reader with ability to scan and process with good quickness
Pocket movements are sudden and twitchy
Exceptionally quick ball-handler with sudden release
Throws with anticipation
Fearless and confident to make challenging throws down the field
Fires ropes through constricted seams and in cover-2 buckets
Uses eyes to move safeties
Rarely lingers on primary targets, preventing defenders from getting early jumps
Decent deep ball touch and accuracy and gives his receivers a chance
Low sack total due to mobility and feel for edge pressure
Maintains field vision when he's on the move
Completion total hurt by excessive drops from top targets over last two years
Weaknesses
Frustrating inconsistencies with accuracy and touch
Fires fastballs on easy, short throws when changeup is needed
Arm thrower with truncated follow-through
Leaves ball behind his targets on crossers and slants
Drops arm slot, leading to batted passes
Requires more disciplined footwork from the pocket
Production falls off a cliff when forced to move his feet
Inconsistent squaring to throw when on the move
Poise and decision-making appear tied to level of pressure he sees
Drifts back and away from the rush and forces himself into low-percentage throws
Lamb-killer with just 14 TDs and 7 INTS against SEC opponents in 2018
Confused and unsteady against Alabama and Georgia with multiple turnovers
With this offense we have the first pick in the draft next year. We can’t put a new qb behind this line with no skill position players. That new qb will be ruined. It’s going to take a few years to get out of this mess.
He played pretty well when he started vs Philly last year. Poorly in the other start.
He’s an Avg backup to me. Inconsistent, prone to mistakes. But Lock has some arm talent and can make all the throws.
It does seem, based on “interest” in Jameis and signing Lock - the Giants are looking for guys who can stretch the field with their arm. Both guys can throw the deep ball and have a gunslinger mentality. Similar to Josh Allen…
In the draft, that vertical gunslinger description fits Maye and Daniels moreso than McCarthy. Also fits Penix..
With this offense we have the first pick in the draft next year. We can’t put a new qb behind this line with no skill position players. That new qb will be ruined. It’s going to take a few years to get out of this mess.
Nobody ever passed on what they thought was a franchise QB because they thought their backs and receivers weren't good enough.
You take the QB if you can, and he passes your evaluation. Anything else is a misunderstanding of how valuable the position is.
With this offense we have the first pick in the draft next year. We can’t put a new qb behind this line with no skill position players. That new qb will be ruined. It’s going to take a few years to get out of this mess.
You do realize we improved the line yesterday right?
The Giants admitted the issue was how bad the Offensive line was esp during the start and then the entire season.I do think the Giants will draft a QB but not in the first round.They will take a WR and Jones I think will be the starter.
We are now going WR? If not great bluffing by Schoen or are we in a position to trade Jones?
Is this a serious post? They signed a cheap vet backup QB. Another team would have to be really stupid to believe that a 1 year $5M deal for Drew Lock means the Giants aren't drafting a QB.
The Giants admitted the issue was how bad the Offensive line was esp during the start and then the entire season.I do think the Giants will draft a QB but not in the first round.They will take a WR and Jones I think will be the starter.
No chance what-so-ever you can throw Jones, and his injury guarantee, out there.
At those saying we aren't going QB now. Yep, Lock is so good that he stops teams from upgrading the QB position. The guy couldn't beat out Geno Smith but he will stop us from drafting a QB. Got it.
Drew Lock is a step backwards in backup QB quality.
signals a RD1 QB? I guess I am missing the trail of breadcrumbs.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
What to think of this move. Is he being brought in to back up the Rookie ? Is he expected to replace Jones and be the starter until the Rookie is ready? Are the Giants even going QB in round 1? So many questions.
appears to be pretty honest in his pressers actually. He told everyone they were going to sign a veteran backup QB. He said he wanted Tyrod. It's pretty clear the Giants offer was only a 1 year deal based on where they are and the cap situation (and the likelyhood of drafting a QB). Odds are that's why the Jets gave 2 years for Tyrod to seal that deal.
You can do worse than Lock in this situation, and we've seen it in recent years.
This means that they are "more" done with Jones than we thought
We're looking at Maye/McCarthy/Nix or Penix along with Lock and Jones (for this year only), I would say it's looking more and more doubtful that Jones plays another snap here.
signals a RD1 QB? I guess I am missing the trail of breadcrumbs.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
Why would we want a pricier vet? We already have an overpaid pricey vet.
signals a RD1 QB? I guess I am missing the trail of breadcrumbs.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
Why would we want a pricier vet? We already have an overpaid pricey vet.
Because Jones is coming off a torn ACL and can't stay on the field?
not spending on the placeholder who will start the season if jones can’t and rookie isn’t ready
I don’t see this as evidence. What was the alternative? They don’t have $ to spend on a backup. Plus they have a lot of cap tied up in Jones so it was never a realistic possibility (from a respurce perspective) they’d splurge on a fringe starter like Minshew.
Lock is a capable backup. It’s a good deal. He’s the QB2 behind Jones.
Reading the breadcrumbs, I don’t see them being overly aggressive in draft to get QB. I think they’ll take their guy if he makes it to 6 (imo Maye) but if their guy is not there they are okay passing on their QB4 and taking a WR.
If he’s deemed ready after training camp and exhibition season - he will start.
If he’s not ready, I expect Lock to be the starter; this will be temporary, maybe 4 games or so until we transition to the rookie. The Giants are ready to get their guy.
Due to the injury guarantee, I don’t think DJ sees another snap as a Giant.
Unless they are drafting a legit prospect (and not a reach pick like jones) then this is just more of the constant poor personnel choices of the last 15 years.
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Lock will be competition for that rookie for who's QB2/QB3. DeVito will seemingly be out, or maybe practice squad.
If the Giants don't draft a QB, Lock will likely be QB2 and DeVito QB3 (or vice-versa).
Again, I don't think this move says anything about whether the Giants will draft a QB or not.
Even if the Giants WANT to draft a QB, they'd have to have a willing trade partner or have (presumably the right) one fall in their laps at 6.
Thus, even The Giants do not KNOW for 100% certain TODAY whether they ARE drafting a QB or not. Unless they're going to reach terribly to make it happen -- which doesn't seem likely.
Yeah, I paused on that too. In the context of the other comments, I think it's a (negative) play on lion-killer - he beat up on the weaker opponents, had problems with the stronger ones (Alabama, Georgia).
Lock is essentially a less mobile DJ with a better arm
And was drafted precisely where DJ should have been drafted in the second round of 2019. I feel like this is a sensible signing since it enables them to go BPA at six in the event the first three picks are quarterback. That would probably mean Odunze or Nabers. And then try to trade back up into the first to get Penix? And unlike Tyrod, Lock still has a much higher ceiling that has never been tapped in the NFL. Perhaps he can still become a future version of Kerry Collins?
Along with the Burns trade, I also like this because of the symbolic righting of the ship after the DJ calamity in 2019. Gettleman should have taken Josh Allen, Dexter Lawrence and Drew Lock with his first three picks in 2019. So in many ways, this feels very much like Dante taking another step in leaving the depths of Quarterback Inferno and entering the hopeful airs of Quarterback Purgatorio...
Unless they are drafting a legit prospect (and not a reach pick like jones) then this is just more of the constant poor personnel choices of the last 15 years.
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
Groundhog day.
There was only one good WR available, it is pretty clear we are drafting a QB, and we signed two good OL... you wanted us to sign like 10 OL? How many should we have signed to make you happy? You know we will probably draft an OL also right?
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
Overview
Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence.
Strengths
Prototypical combination of size and arm talent
Full-field reader with ability to scan and process with good quickness
Pocket movements are sudden and twitchy
Exceptionally quick ball-handler with sudden release
Throws with anticipation
Fearless and confident to make challenging throws down the field
Fires ropes through constricted seams and in cover-2 buckets
Uses eyes to move safeties
Rarely lingers on primary targets, preventing defenders from getting early jumps
Decent deep ball touch and accuracy and gives his receivers a chance
Low sack total due to mobility and feel for edge pressure
Maintains field vision when he's on the move
Completion total hurt by excessive drops from top targets over last two years
Weaknesses
Frustrating inconsistencies with accuracy and touch
Fires fastballs on easy, short throws when changeup is needed
Arm thrower with truncated follow-through
Leaves ball behind his targets on crossers and slants
Drops arm slot, leading to batted passes
Requires more disciplined footwork from the pocket
Production falls off a cliff when forced to move his feet
Inconsistent squaring to throw when on the move
Poise and decision-making appear tied to level of pressure he sees
Drifts back and away from the rush and forces himself into low-percentage throws
Lamb-killer with just 14 TDs and 7 INTS against SEC opponents in 2018
Confused and unsteady against Alabama and Georgia with multiple turnovers
He NEVER looked like his Scouting Report in NFL Games...except for the Accuracy issues and some Erratic Play. Some guys never make the leap...He seemed to make not one advance in 5 years. SO MANT PICKS!!!! I don't get it...if He plays, you lose
Unless they are drafting a legit prospect (and not a reach pick like jones) then this is just more of the constant poor personnel choices of the last 15 years.
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
Groundhog day.
LOL, yes, this is the Giants ignoring the QB issues. You've understood this move well.
Yeah, I paused on that too. In the context of the other comments, I think it's a (negative) play on lion-killer - he beat up on the weaker opponents, had problems with the stronger ones (Alabama, Georgia).
Ah, ok. That makes sense.
It seemed like a really disturbing hobby that was getting overlooked.
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
RE: RE: RE: yeah you have to look into this move a bit
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
Well for 1, he's not better than Lock but that's neither here nor there. Did you miss what the Broncos and Raiders did in the past two seasons? They benched their starters for backups who aren't nearly as a good to avoid injury guarantees kicking in when they decided they wanted to move on. In the Giants case, they'd be deciding that on draft night and one of the major benefits to drafting a QB is the rookie-scale contract. This should be very obvious to anyone paying attention.
RE: Daniel Jones should get the Watson treatment when he was in Houston.
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
I think the idea if to have someone who can start week 1 if Jones can't play. Cutlets is not the guy and they may not want to be forced to play the rookie if they feel he is not ready.
If that is the plan, all you are looking for a is a guy with some starting experience with upside who comes cheap. That sounds like what they got.
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I agree. He can move around and throw downfield. Works for me until the rookie is ready.
RE: RE: RE: RE: yeah you have to look into this move a bit
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
Well for 1, he's not better than Lock but that's neither here nor there. Did you miss what the Broncos and Raiders did in the past two seasons? They benched their starters for backups who aren't nearly as a good to avoid injury guarantees kicking in when they decided they wanted to move on. In the Giants case, they'd be deciding that on draft night and one of the major benefits to drafting a QB is the rookie-scale contract. This should be very obvious to anyone paying attention.
that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
IF the Giants did not like any QB in 2024, who is coming out in 2025? I trust your early take on this more than any expert.
Notables: Sanders (Colorado), Beck (Georgia), Ewers (Texas), Milroe (Bama), Ward (Miami), Dart (Ole Miss), Leonard (ND)...
This is a good list. Couple other guys who may have a chance also... You got Will Rogers (Washington) who I like, Dillon Gabriel (Oregon), and Kyle McCord (Ohio State)
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
I think the idea if to have someone who can start week 1 if Jones can't play. Cutlets is not the guy and they may not want to be forced to play the rookie if they feel he is not ready.
If that is the plan, all you are looking for a is a guy with some starting experience with upside who comes cheap. That sounds like what they got.
That is certainly plausable but still thats a decent chunk of money and potentially risking the McKinney comp pick (if Adoree signs somewhere). They could have went a cheaper route if you were really worried about Daniel Jones week 1 availability.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: yeah you have to look into this move a bit
that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
This is getting ridiculous....
Denver wasn't eliminated from the playoffs... Also neither of those teams drafted a QB high in the first round. When you do that, you're going to do everything you can to make sure that pick pans out. But now I see I'm wasting my time, you're one of those Jones truthers who can't seem to move on from him for some odd reason.
The Giants are still being pushed towards Jones by someone in the organization. If Scheon and Daboll are dumb enough to go all in on Daniel Jones this year they both deserve to be fired for their stupidity in signing him last year and sticking with him after literally being the worst QB in the NFL. He absolutely sucks
that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
This is getting ridiculous....
Denver wasn't eliminated from the playoffs... Also neither of those teams drafted a QB high in the first round. When you do that, you're going to do everything you can to make sure that pick pans out. But now I see I'm wasting my time, you're one of those Jones truthers who can't seem to move on from him for some odd reason.
come on it was in week like 17 and they were 7-8 and just lost to one of the worst teams in football (Patriots) when they replaced him and Wilson play wan trending downwards.
They were just trying to protect themselves for the last couple of games...they didn't go into the season with this mindset. These are completely different scenarios.
And I love the back and forth...whenever someone disagrees people always go to those vague silly "jones truthers".
Point to me one career statistic where Drew Lock is better than Daniel Jones...I'll wait. I don't have to be a Jones truther to say Daniel Jones is a better QB and gives us a better chance to win over Drew Lock.
That also doesn't mean I think we need to reset the QB clock and get a new QB because I also don't trust Jones health long term.
Maybe Daboll can unlock Lock.....the kid does have an arm. They see upside.....low risk flyer.
I keep saying, @ 6......it is not a given that the Giants can get the QB the Giants want.
I don't buy in on the premise that any of 4 QBs would be acceptable.
I also do not think Schoen will be held hostage either.....and would be perfectly fine drafting one of the Stud WR.
this all makes sense but if they draft the WR and stick with this QB room which is bad and doesn’t offer any hope they’re losing their jobs. This rivals the 23 patriots for worst QB room in the sport.
Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
That is cheap backup money. Hahaha... You think Locke got starter money? Where else was he going to go? If we draft a QB which is likely the rookie will most likely be QB3, Locke QB2, and DJ QB1 for about 6 games. At which point Rookie QB1, Locke QB2, and DJ QB3 so he doesn't get hurt.
Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
RE: RE: I think the simple answer is he replaces Taylor
Maybe Daboll can unlock Lock.....the kid does have an arm. They see upside.....low risk flyer.
I keep saying, @ 6......it is not a given that the Giants can get the QB the Giants want.
I don't buy in on the premise that any of 4 QBs would be acceptable.
I also do not think Schoen will be held hostage either.....and would be perfectly fine drafting one of the Stud WR.
this all makes sense but if they draft the WR and stick with this QB room which is bad and doesn’t offer any hope they’re losing their jobs. This rivals the 23 patriots for worst QB room in the sport.
Even if they don't go QB in round 1 they will take a QB at some point. I wouldn't be suprised by a 2nd rounder.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Lock was drafted the same year as Jones, has a better arm with more accuracy, and doesn't cost a tone. This is another smart move by Schoen. I really think the Giants are targeting a QB in the Draft, whether he'll be in the first round or the 2nd, they're getting the future QB for the Giants.
They just upgraded the backup position by a factor of 10.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Lock is okay as a backup and cheaper than Taylor. As for the next QB savior, I look at McCarthy and see nothing to get excited about or which suggests that he is going to be a major upgrade. Was allowed to play in a system which did not demand much from him. Has accuracy issues as well according to several scouting reports. Would much rather take a shot at Penix, even with his injuries, or Nix and save the No. 6 pick for a WR, OL or DT.
people here truly know nothing about football, salary cap, team structure etc..
Right before today we had one fucking QB available for offseason work.. ONE!!!!
We had to have a backup no matter what.
This doesn't prevent us from drafting a QB, quite frankly it may have cemented that we are drafting one but maybe that one will sit a bit before hand while keeping Jones on the bench at the same time.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Yes Tommy Devito is horrible.
looking at Drew Lock's career he's been pretty horrible as well LOL
The Giants are still being pushed towards Jones by someone in the organization. If Scheon and Daboll are dumb enough to go all in on Daniel Jones this year they both deserve to be fired for their stupidity in signing him last year and sticking with him after literally being the worst QB in the NFL. He absolutely sucks
They literally DO NOT have another option. It’s simple as that. They paid Jones big money, his play dropped off. But they are still paying him like a QB1. They need to hope he can bounce back.
As for the “but they can trade up”, I’m sure they made calls, which led to the rumors about them being done with Jones. The reality is it takes 2 to make a deal and those top 3 teams do not want to trade out. The Giants have no control over which QB they get in the draft. Because of that, they are currently NOT planning on drafting a QB at 6. It’s simple.
Lock is exactly what it looks like. A decently paid QB2 who will give them a chance to win games (like he did for Seattle against Philly) if Jones misses time.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
+1. I like what I saw of Lock last season. He may be the best QB on the roster currently.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
but I have seen little of this QB. Most interested to see what they do in the draft and then how they handle Jones.
I think a cut could be in play with a high pick QB. Trade very unlikely with the injury clause. We will see.
What is not happening is a healthy Jones to start training camp or shortly afterwards is not being shelved for the season with no chance to compete or play. That has multiple negative consequences.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
Sitting Jones for the season is the best move if they are really trying to take this rebuild to the next level. 22 million in deadcap hurts, 45 would be devastating. Drew Lock and rookie compete for the job imo. Even an early season ending injury to DJ could trigger a 45 million dollar dead cap vs 22m deadcap.
but I have seen little of this QB. Most interested to see what they do in the draft and then how they handle Jones.
I think a cut could be in play with a high pick QB. Trade very unlikely with the injury clause. We will see.
What is not happening is a healthy Jones to start training camp or shortly afterwards is not being shelved for the season with no chance to compete or play. That has multiple negative consequences.
I think you're onto something. Mara would prefer we give Jones a chance to find another starting job via post June 1st release vs. Benching him the entire year.
27 yr old Drew Lock for 1yr/5M instead of TT for 2yr/18M (and 7 years older at 34 yrs old), or 30 yr old Jamies Winston for 1yr/8.7M.
You don't want to lock up a lot of cap money with a guy who spends almost the entire season on the bench. This is a good deal for the Giants, getting a backup QB
Seems they're sticking with Jones and judging by the players picked up, they are filling spots that are sparse in the draft, i.e., ER's, OG's, etc. Probably focusing on the deep class of WRs, CB, and S. But who knows Schoen's vision for the team? Not me.
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
Sitting Jones for the season is the best move if they are really trying to take this rebuild to the next level. 22 million in deadcap hurts, 45 would be devastating. Drew Lock and rookie compete for the job imo. Even an early season ending injury to DJ could trigger a 45 million dollar dead cap vs 22m deadcap.
So Daniel Jones can outplay everyone during camp and look healthy and because you fear him getting hurt you would not play him or release him.
Yeah that will go over really well in the lockeroom.
Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
So, here is a potential problem with hoping QB4 drops to 6.
I think I read this hear and I had a convo with a huge Vikings fan as well, MN may be willing to trade the 11th pick and Justin Jefferson to AZ for the 4th pick. They could leap frog us and then what?
Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
I don't agree. Now I see QB1 as either Jones or a rookie. I don't think there's room for both.
I think the scenario that just got eliminated is "draft a Day 2/3 guy to develop behind Daniel, who is still our franchise QB". I think it's either Jones/Lock or rookie/Lock.
but I dunno what he got from Steelers, so may be a numbnuts comment
Wilson signed for Vet min I believe because he will be QB1 in Pittsburgh who has a better OL and WRs. Giants wanted him, but he passed and more money wouldn't matter because unless you pay him 50+ mil the money will be the same no matter where he went.
The Giants are still being pushed towards Jones by someone in the organization. If Scheon and Daboll are dumb enough to go all in on Daniel Jones this year they both deserve to be fired for their stupidity in signing him last year and sticking with him after literally being the worst QB in the NFL. He absolutely sucks
Tyrod (and Devito) outplayed DJ, so it makes to get a shittier back up QB. Makes DJ lovers (Mara) happy.
The Giants can offer Arizona a lot less than Minnesota for the #4 pick since they are only dropping two spots.
If the Giants have determined that there are 4 QBs in this draft they would take at #6, they need to trade up to #4 to ensure they get one. What they can't do it hope one falls to #6.
If they stay at #6 it tells you that they were ok going in a different direction than QB (or they are ok with any of 6 QBs).
If I am the Schoen I already have a deal in place with Arizona to jump up to #4 if the first 3 picks are QB and I only see 4 in this draft.
Or... Lock is QB2 behind Cutlets to open the season...
Last year the plan was to open up the offense and build a vertical passing game. When the bullets flew for real, DJ wouldn't pull the trigger and couldn't get it done. The offense stabilized later as we got healthier and actually saw glimpses of what was planned with TT was in there.
This year they want a guy with a big arm so if DJ remains check down Charlie, they have another direction to go it.
All of this is independent of what happens in the draft, we can't guarantee how that will play out for us, but at a minimum there will be a developmental QB added.
RE: Or... Lock is QB2 behind Cutlets to open the season...
Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
I don't agree. Now I see QB1 as either Jones or a rookie. I don't think there's room for both.
I think the scenario that just got eliminated is "draft a Day 2/3 guy to develop behind Daniel, who is still our franchise QB". I think it's either Jones/Lock or rookie/Lock.
I think thats my point...some were making this not a big deal. I think it does signal the Giants are either rolling with Jones + Lock. Or if they go QB at 6 they probably move on from Jones.
The only problem with that if they pick JJ and he's not ready to play right away and Lock is not as good as Daniel Jones the Giants would pay a lot of money for Jones to walk away and potentially be worse THIS year for it. I don't know how that would sit in the lockerroom.
RE: Or... Lock is QB2 behind Cutlets to open the season...
Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Someone had to take the backup position vacated by TT
The Giants can offer Arizona a lot less than Minnesota for the #4 pick since they are only dropping two spots.
If the Giants have determined that there are 4 QBs in this draft they would take at #6, they need to trade up to #4 to ensure they get one. What they can't do it hope one falls to #6.
If they stay at #6 it tells you that they were ok going in a different direction than QB (or they are ok with any of 6 QBs).
If I am the Schoen I already have a deal in place with Arizona to jump up to #4 if the first 3 picks are QB and I only see 4 in this draft.
Mike from Ohio,
We can only hope the Giants have a plan in place. Getting a top WR and the 11th pick is similar to our 6th and our 1st next year. That would suck. otherwise if AZ just goes MHJ then we can move up for our 3rd round pick in 2024.
You have to believe that Schoen wants one of JD, DM or JJM.
Lock is okay as a backup and cheaper than Taylor. As for the next QB savior, I look at McCarthy and see nothing to get excited about or which suggests that he is going to be a major upgrade. Was allowed to play in a system which did not demand much from him. Has accuracy issues as well according to several scouting reports. Would much rather take a shot at Penix, even with his injuries, or Nix and save the No. 6 pick for a WR, OL or DT.
It's refreshing to see someone else who doesn't buy the McCarthy hype.
said they were going to sign a veteran QB. That's Lock. We could do worse. The Giants need a veteran who can start week one in case Jones isn't ready. They don't want DeVito as the week one starter. My guess is that as others have said, DeVito will be cut and put on the PS if he isn't claimed by someone else. But remember that Schoen also said that Jones would start when he is ready, unless Lock is playing well. Just because the Giants are "done with Jones" doesn't mean that he won't play this season, regardless of the risk of injury.
I have zero trust in Lock….if you watch that last 92 yard drive to beat Wagles in the final 2 minutes….he threw so many bad balls….could have had several interceptions….yeah he did have two good long balls but he never would have had that if the Eagles defense made the pic….plus a few short passes to guys cutting were horrendous….
Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
and they just cut Jones? What if Jones is playing well?
I think it is safe to assume Jones isn't playing well. If he does play well for a week or two history has shown it is about to turn around.
The Giants can't afford to keep playing this "what if Jones is actually good?" game. It hasn't worked for 5 years.
No one is saying Jones will be player great but he could still give us the best chance to win at the time. And not sure why Lock on a 1 year 5 MM would get better treatment then a QB that been in the system and hasn't a track record of being a better QB than Lock.
Now the injuries are absolutely a concern and I would get that. But Jones was a competent QB just 2 years ago. If we get better oline play its not crazy to think Daniel Jones gives us the best chance to win next year.
Now going forward I totally get it...at that point his contract is moveable and you move him. I'm specifically talking this year.
They aren't magically going to run at the playoffs this year unless they hit the draft out of the park and even still it would take a miracle...
If Jones isn't ready to go... They're going to take care of their investment and make you happy to see him when he's cleared.
Cutlets is a feel good story. With a better O Line, they think the passing paisan might be able to give fans a little something to cheer for while they wait for DJ, or the Rookie to be ready.
You might even get a medium Pepsi and a slice...
Have you followed this organization?
Drew Lock isn't starting opening night. Jones likely isn't starting opening night. And they're not going to let a Rookie get flogged by the fans in week 1.
Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
So, here is a potential problem with hoping QB4 drops to 6.
I think I read this hear and I had a convo with a huge Vikings fan as well, MN may be willing to trade the 11th pick and Justin Jefferson to AZ for the 4th pick. They could leap frog us and then what?
That would be a deal I doubt we could top. Then you trade back at least once and either wait till the 2nd or roll the dice on drafting Rattler in the 3rd or 4th.
Drew Lock isn't starting opening night. Jones likely isn't starting opening night. And they're not going to let a Rookie get flogged by the fans in week 1.
You're saying that Cutlets is starting on opening night?
Drew Lock isn't starting opening night. Jones likely isn't starting opening night. And they're not going to let a Rookie get flogged by the fans in week 1.
I think he is. And I think he’s throwing shit at the wall.
You're saying that Cutlets is starting on opening night?
Maybe Schoen is doing Lock’s agent a favor. Maybe the agent holds
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
knows he's coming here as a backup or spot starter at best, whether that is for Jones or a rookie. But if he does well, he could get a longer deal next year. This is what is available. He has a much better chance of being here next year than Jones, and maybe DeVito.
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Did they do that for Jones last year?
Jones cannot stay healthy
RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
This has NOTHING to do with whether the Giants will draft a QB in round 1. It has to do with Jones possibly not being ready to start the season. They’d rather have a cheap vet with some starting experience do it than the rookie.
I think people are vastly over rating Devito's value to the franchise
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
And further - what would we be missing out on? The general belief is that the non-QB pick should be Nabers or Odunze...but the general belief is also that this draft is stacked at WR.
But isn't this a big reason they pay Schoen? I would hope he's gathering good intelligence on where those QBs are likely to be drafted.
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
If Minnesota jumps up to #4 and the first four picks are Williams, Daniels, Maye, and McCarthy - what is the plan for QB? Wait until next year with a potentially weaker class and hope for the best?
People are putting way too much focus on the injury clause. Schoen and Daboll have already showed that they are going to make the best roster decisions they can to win games. So if Daboll thinks DJ gives him the best chance to win a game, he's going to play him, injury clause or not. Schoen just gave Jones the contract last year w/ the clause in it. He's not going to ask Daboll to sit the kid because of it.
He wouldn’t be a mentor to a young QB as he doesn’t have a ton of starting experience.
Its Giants quadrupling down on Jones...This isn't competition for QB1, this is a signing for QB2 competition
What are you talking about.
This doesn't impact the draft which means this doesn't impact DJ's future here. Also, last I checked Joe Montana wasn't a UFA. Who did you want to sign? Rich Gannon would be a good under the radar move, if this was 1999.
He can do a lot more with the raw talent of Lock. Lock has an elite ceiling in terms of arm talent if Daboll can work magic on Lock's accuracy and foot work. Which Daboll did fairly effectively with Josh Allen.
I see Lock as either the starter, ala Kerry Collins, in the event Schoen doesn't select a quarterback in the draft this year, or as a placeholder starter, ala Kurt Warner, in the event they do. So I would expect Lock to be the day one starter in either case. For those who doubt Lock's upside, watch the film of the Eagles game this past fall and his cannon on several of the throws that brought the Seahawks back to win that game.
I see Tommy Cutlets as either the backup to Lock if they don't select a quarterback in the draft, or as the practice squad guy in the event that they do. I remain hopeful that DJ never takes a snap again for the Giants.
If Minnesota jumps up to #4 and the first four picks are Williams, Daniels, Maye, and McCarthy - what is the plan for QB? Wait until next year with a potentially weaker class and hope for the best?
No way do I force a QB with Penix or Nix at 6. Take the 1st or 2nd rated WR and they trade back up into the first if need be.
... with remotes? I've seen two people here mention trading back, but neither considers (or at least specifically mentions) the possibility that it could be done while leaving Williams, Maye, Daniels, or even McCarthy on the board.
Before you say "No way!," were you predicting DJ at 6? Who knows for sure what their board really looks like--and what the possibilities could be 6 weeks from now at that particular moment.
That said I saw Sy's post last night (so before the Lock move, if that would make any possible difference) saying: "Time to go all-in on a QB." And I could certainly be wrong, but I think that is not a viewpoint he necessarily held a few weeks ago.
RE: RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I agree, now we have to get a QB because having just Jones and Lock is not a stable situation. If all 4 are gone I grab Nix at 6 and don't look back. Really any of the top 6 could turn out to be good NFL QBs
RE: RE: RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I agree, now we have to get a QB because having just Jones and Lock is not a stable situation. If all 4 are gone I grab Nix at 6 and don't look back. Really any of the top 6 could turn out to be good NFL QBs
Or they could be the second coming of Jones. I'm fine with Schoen needing to come away with the 4th rated QB. But Penix or Nix at as the 5th rated QB just to draft one at a premium position at #6, no way do I do that.
In comment 16428747 The Mike said:
[quote] He can do a lot more with the raw talent of Lock. Lock has an elite ceiling in terms of arm talent if Daboll can work magic on Lock's accuracy and foot work. Which Daboll did fairly effectively with Josh Allen.
improving accuracy is probably the least coachable aspect of any qb.. id throw some cold water on that expectation. Josh Allen is a unicorn not the norm.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Lock gets 1 for 5 (has pretty much done nothing), Tyrod gets 2 for 18 (can't stay healthy), Darnold gets 1 for 10. I would have preferred Rudolph I think.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
This discussion is going on for too long LOL. Neither are incorrect but I think I lean towards PJ on this one. "The Coca-Cola Company" is the official name but if I had a friend who said The Coca Cola Company every time they could have said Coke or Coca-Cola, I would have probably verbally assaulted them every time they said The Coca-Cola Company.
Now back to regualar scheduled programming...QB or no QB? that is the question, either way it's probably a New York Football Giants tradegy sponsored by .... Medium Pepsi
RE: Im curious what Mason Rudolph gets. .. hes actually won some games
Lock gets 1 for 5 (has pretty much done nothing), Tyrod gets 2 for 18 (can't stay healthy), Darnold gets 1 for 10. I would have preferred Rudolph I think.
Rudolph probably gets Lock money at best. One of his wins the D allowed 11 points and another was against Baltimore’s backups in a downpour. The Seattle game he did well, but had insane support from the running game (over 200 yards and 3 TD’s). Lock led a 4th quarter comeback versus Philly.
RE: RE: Im curious what Mason Rudolph gets. .. hes actually won some games
Lock gets 1 for 5 (has pretty much done nothing), Tyrod gets 2 for 18 (can't stay healthy), Darnold gets 1 for 10. I would have preferred Rudolph I think.
Rudolph probably gets Lock money at best. One of his wins the D allowed 11 points and another was against Baltimore’s backups in a downpour. The Seattle game he did well, but had insane support from the running game (over 200 yards and 3 TD’s). Lock led a 4th quarter comeback versus Philly.
I actually did the player vomp on Football Ref and Lock actually looks better and has better arm talent.
inexpensive, veteran, maybe some upside (we don't know because he didn't have the Daniel Jones special 5 year scholarship) and he throws the ball down the field. The one year he was a starter, he reached the magical 16 td mark which our hero hasn't reached since his rookie year. In an open competition for passing, Jones may not come out on top.
And Lock doesn't stop us from doing anything else at the qb spot. If Jones can start the season, Lock can be cut without much cost or they can trade him, and if Jones can't start the season, Lock can and if he runs with the job, oh well for Jones. There really is no downside to this signing.
Teams are just playing roulette now with these guys. It's comical.
There are only about 8 or so QBs worth paying.
Latest fad in team building. Call it the "Brock Purdy experiment" or the "Geno Smith experience"- you can put anyone back there and get to the playoffs.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
My reaction was the opposite of pjcas18's. I started watching our Giants only a decade or so after the baseball Giants moved to SF, and everyone called the NYG the "Football Giants." It's cool to recognize the historical name. I chuckled. You go Anakim.
This says nothing about the QB future for the Giants and as per usual BBI over-reacts.
Love this site and all the articles and OPs, but the sniping at each other and the Giants and Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and inserting those into otherwise interesting threads, is beyond annoying.
Same here, I loved the arm talent he showed at Missouri.
One bit of hope is if Lock can be taught accuracy like Allen was. That is a STRETCH. Because Lock can certainly gun it. Knowing where it's going is another thing.
If he throws the ball to open receivers that is already a bonus.
As I expected….lots of brain farts by Lock…many opportunities for interceptions. He just doesn’t seem smart enough or quick enough to process everything quickly. He reminds me of Jones in the passing, but unlike Jones in that he seems hesitant to take off if he feels nothing is there.
Agree Lock could be starting this year if DJ isn't healed from his ACL. Giants still should select a QB at 6. Nix at Six. He had a great pro day yesterday. Bad timing by Oregon to hold the Pro Day in the middle of FA. Hardly any GM's were there included Schoen. Jet's had 5 people there. Bears had 8 people there. I think Nix will move into the top 10 maybe higher.
RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
I agree. Nix at Six.
RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
I like Nix at Six. IMO he's the best QB in the draft and he could start immediately. 61 career College starts.
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I think a lot of Teams aren't giving away the fact that Nix is high on their draft boards. Giants please take Nix at Six.
but to to even consider them drafting a QB early is out of the question.
WHAT???
Jones is not going to be moved. Slight chance he's cut, and even that seems like a pipe dream from the legion here who would rather see the Giants fail then see DJ start week 1.
Maybe he's even benched all year long. I wouldn't rule that out although it seems unlikely.
QB early is absolutely still in play. Smarten up.
RE: RE: Giants are not carrying Jones and Lock and
Nix at 6? Are people high? He's not a 1st round talent, let alone top 10.
Daniel Jeremiah has him as #29 in his Top 50. There's a chance he gets selected toward the bottom of the first round, but no way do you waste a premium pick #6 on him. Take one of the top WR's or JJ McCarthy perhaps there at 6.
RE: RE: RE: How far do you trade down if you want Nix?
Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
I like Nix at Six. IMO he's the best QB in the draft and he could start immediately. 61 career College starts.
A little early to be hitting the bottle isn't it...
Have any of you actually WATCHED this kid play? You are making it sound like this is Tommy DeVito Part II, and I dont think that is the case. Is Lock a starter? Maybe not, but backup? Teams could do much much worse than having him as a backup QB. Hell there are still people here who are ticked off the Broncos ever traded him to Seattle, and that was BEFORE it was evident that Russell Wilson was going to be a disaster!
Go watch the games he started last year vs SF and Philly. He has a LOT of talent. He needs to improve upstairs. Im looking forward to seeing what Daboll can do with him.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
They were always going to sign a veteran QB to replace Tyrod. And I don’t see how this signing means they won’t draft a QB in the first round.
I’m not even sure Jones will be healthy enough to start the season.
I didn't say the Giants definitely won't draft a QB in the first round, but that I don't see Jones, Lock and a first rounder all being on the 2024 in-season roster.
Many people have asked: why didn't the Giants franchise Jones, so they only guaranteed him $32M rather than $82M? The answer is that the path the Giants followed resulted in Jones having a 2023 cap number of $15M rather than $32M, and they wanted to build a team that would give Jones the best chance to succeed.
If Giants are so far "out" on Jones that they draft a first round QB, I believe they would do whatever it takes to get somebody to take at least some of his $47M cap hit off their hands, to give their 2024 QBs the best chance to succeed.
But I don't see this as the most probable scenario for the first round pick. I think a non-QB is more likely.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
As pointed out below this post of yours and above this reply by me, this whole conversation might be archaic and unnecessary. But because your argument here is so lame, it requires me to point out that "Football" was not and is not part of the Cardinals official team name.
You know what would be archaic and unnecessary? Calling the St. Louis Cardinals the Chicago Cardinals. Or calling the Arizona Cardinals the St. Louis OR Chicago Cardinals.
Speaking of pretentious, how about you call the team whatever you like and let everyone else do the same?
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
While the distinction isn't necessary, it's still the official name. You can contrast this to say AT&T who's legal name is AT&T and no longer American Telephone and Telegraph
🤣
@art_stapleton
It is a 1-year deal for Lock, per source
And I'll admit, I was a fan of Lock out of Mizzu.
Its Giants quadrupling down on Jones...This isn't competition for QB1, this is a signing for QB2 competition
@AdamSchefter
New York Giants are giving former Seahawks QB Drew Lock a one-year deal worth up to $5 million, per source.
If not, this answers the question "Can the Giants quarterback situation from 2023 get any worse?"
@AdamSchefter
New York Giants are giving former Seahawks QB Drew Lock a one-year deal worth up to $5 million, per source.
Most likely a minimum type of deal eith incentives based on starts
Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence.
Strengths
Prototypical combination of size and arm talent
Full-field reader with ability to scan and process with good quickness
Pocket movements are sudden and twitchy
Exceptionally quick ball-handler with sudden release
Throws with anticipation
Fearless and confident to make challenging throws down the field
Fires ropes through constricted seams and in cover-2 buckets
Uses eyes to move safeties
Rarely lingers on primary targets, preventing defenders from getting early jumps
Decent deep ball touch and accuracy and gives his receivers a chance
Low sack total due to mobility and feel for edge pressure
Maintains field vision when he's on the move
Completion total hurt by excessive drops from top targets over last two years
Weaknesses
Frustrating inconsistencies with accuracy and touch
Fires fastballs on easy, short throws when changeup is needed
Arm thrower with truncated follow-through
Leaves ball behind his targets on crossers and slants
Drops arm slot, leading to batted passes
Requires more disciplined footwork from the pocket
Production falls off a cliff when forced to move his feet
Inconsistent squaring to throw when on the move
Poise and decision-making appear tied to level of pressure he sees
Drifts back and away from the rush and forces himself into low-percentage throws
Lamb-killer with just 14 TDs and 7 INTS against SEC opponents in 2018
Confused and unsteady against Alabama and Georgia with multiple turnovers
id have just waited until may to sign a back up qb. actually makes me wonder how all in they are on QB in draft.
depending on the $ here, if they draft someone this makes it a lot more possible jones is going to get cut.
He’s an Avg backup to me. Inconsistent, prone to mistakes. But Lock has some arm talent and can make all the throws.
It does seem, based on “interest” in Jameis and signing Lock - the Giants are looking for guys who can stretch the field with their arm. Both guys can throw the deep ball and have a gunslinger mentality. Similar to Josh Allen…
In the draft, that vertical gunslinger description fits Maye and Daniels moreso than McCarthy. Also fits Penix..
Nobody ever passed on what they thought was a franchise QB because they thought their backs and receivers weren't good enough.
You take the QB if you can, and he passes your evaluation. Anything else is a misunderstanding of how valuable the position is.
schefter says the $5m is guaranteed too. if they draft a qb it may be end of jones era for real.
teams dont pay their 3rd QB $5m+ (or $45m) if they have tommy devito as a perfectly capable 3rd QB.
If not, this answers the question "Can the Giants quarterback situation from 2023 get any worse?"
I don't disagree, but do we think the following is likely?
-Draft JJMC, he plays when ready
-In the meantime, Lock plays
-Meanwhile, DJ essentially sits all season in anticipation of getting cut next January
???
You do realize we improved the line yesterday right?
TT is better but that's due to experience.
Interesting move.
Rookie, Lock, DJ.
I guess our Italian Stallion is outta here.
Is this a serious post? They signed a cheap vet backup QB. Another team would have to be really stupid to believe that a 1 year $5M deal for Drew Lock means the Giants aren't drafting a QB.
No chance what-so-ever you can throw Jones, and his injury guarantee, out there.
1. he will be or have a setback
2. doesn't mean they really want him to play
Locke has started some, and could "hold the fort" until a first rd draftee is ready.
If you thought Tyrod sucked I cant wait to see the game threads if Lock has to play.
Maye or McCarthy who ever is available.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
are we signing a guy for 5 million we are going to cut?
You can do worse than Lock in this situation, and we've seen it in recent years.
We're looking at Maye/McCarthy/Nix or Penix along with Lock and Jones (for this year only), I would say it's looking more and more doubtful that Jones plays another snap here.
And I'll admit, I was a fan of Lock out of Mizzu.
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signals a RD1 QB? I guess I am missing the trail of breadcrumbs.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
Why would we want a pricier vet? We already have an overpaid pricey vet.
Like I said earlier, maybe some time in the Daboll/Kafka lab will be what Lock needs. Worth the stretch to me...
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In comment 16428311 Somers24 said:
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signals a RD1 QB? I guess I am missing the trail of breadcrumbs.
It could be a 2nd round QB but if the Giants knew that they weren't going to draft a QB in the first two rounds, they would've brought in a pricier, more accomplished vet
Why would we want a pricier vet? We already have an overpaid pricey vet.
Because Jones is coming off a torn ACL and can't stay on the field?
I don’t see this as evidence. What was the alternative? They don’t have $ to spend on a backup. Plus they have a lot of cap tied up in Jones so it was never a realistic possibility (from a respurce perspective) they’d splurge on a fringe starter like Minshew.
Lock is a capable backup. It’s a good deal. He’s the QB2 behind Jones.
Reading the breadcrumbs, I don’t see them being overly aggressive in draft to get QB. I think they’ll take their guy if he makes it to 6 (imo Maye) but if their guy is not there they are okay passing on their QB4 and taking a WR.
If he’s not ready, I expect Lock to be the starter; this will be temporary, maybe 4 games or so until we transition to the rookie. The Giants are ready to get their guy.
Due to the injury guarantee, I don’t think DJ sees another snap as a Giant.
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he either starts for a few games until the rookie is ready or he is cut before the season starts
are we signing a guy for 5 million we are going to cut?
Apparently that AND $160M for another guy they will cut.
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per Schefter.
schefter says the $5m is guaranteed too. if they draft a qb it may be end of jones era for real.
teams dont pay their 3rd QB $5m+ (or $45m) if they have tommy devito as a perfectly capable 3rd QB.
Perfectly capable? If Giants draft a QB, Lock is the backup, at least initially, the rookie is #3 and Tommy Cutlets is on the practice squad.
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Hopefully this signals the Giants are picking a quarterback on round one.
If not, this answers the question "Can the Giants quarterback situation from 2023 get any worse?"
I don't disagree, but do we think the following is likely?
-Draft JJMC, he plays when ready
-In the meantime, Lock plays
-Meanwhile, DJ essentially sits all season in anticipation of getting cut next January
???
i think this is possible, given the injury guarantee for Jones in 2025
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
Groundhog day.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
If the Giants don't draft a QB, Lock will likely be QB2 and DeVito QB3 (or vice-versa).
Again, I don't think this move says anything about whether the Giants will draft a QB or not.
Even if the Giants WANT to draft a QB, they'd have to have a willing trade partner or have (presumably the right) one fall in their laps at 6.
Thus, even The Giants do not KNOW for 100% certain TODAY whether they ARE drafting a QB or not. Unless they're going to reach terribly to make it happen -- which doesn't seem likely.
They will have contingencies for either path.
Yeah, I paused on that too. In the context of the other comments, I think it's a (negative) play on lion-killer - he beat up on the weaker opponents, had problems with the stronger ones (Alabama, Georgia).
Along with the Burns trade, I also like this because of the symbolic righting of the ship after the DJ calamity in 2019. Gettleman should have taken Josh Allen, Dexter Lawrence and Drew Lock with his first three picks in 2019. So in many ways, this feels very much like Dante taking another step in leaving the depths of Quarterback Inferno and entering the hopeful airs of Quarterback Purgatorio...
j/k j/k
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
Groundhog day.
There was only one good WR available, it is pretty clear we are drafting a QB, and we signed two good OL... you wanted us to sign like 10 OL? How many should we have signed to make you happy? You know we will probably draft an OL also right?
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
Full-field reader offering prototypical size and arm talent, but one that has a concerning lack of accuracy and consistency against top opponents. Inside of each game, Lock makes reads and throws that are worthy of an early pick. There will also be plays in the same game that highlight his random inaccuracy and issues defeating pocket pressure. He has as much pure talent as any quarterback from the 2018 draft, but he won't reach that lofty potential unless he improves his accuracy and learns to play with better in-game presence.
Strengths
Prototypical combination of size and arm talent
Full-field reader with ability to scan and process with good quickness
Pocket movements are sudden and twitchy
Exceptionally quick ball-handler with sudden release
Throws with anticipation
Fearless and confident to make challenging throws down the field
Fires ropes through constricted seams and in cover-2 buckets
Uses eyes to move safeties
Rarely lingers on primary targets, preventing defenders from getting early jumps
Decent deep ball touch and accuracy and gives his receivers a chance
Low sack total due to mobility and feel for edge pressure
Maintains field vision when he's on the move
Completion total hurt by excessive drops from top targets over last two years
Weaknesses
Frustrating inconsistencies with accuracy and touch
Fires fastballs on easy, short throws when changeup is needed
Arm thrower with truncated follow-through
Leaves ball behind his targets on crossers and slants
Drops arm slot, leading to batted passes
Requires more disciplined footwork from the pocket
Production falls off a cliff when forced to move his feet
Inconsistent squaring to throw when on the move
Poise and decision-making appear tied to level of pressure he sees
Drifts back and away from the rush and forces himself into low-percentage throws
Lamb-killer with just 14 TDs and 7 INTS against SEC opponents in 2018
Confused and unsteady against Alabama and Georgia with multiple turnovers
He NEVER looked like his Scouting Report in NFL Games...except for the Accuracy issues and some Erratic Play. Some guys never make the leap...He seemed to make not one advance in 5 years. SO MANT PICKS!!!! I don't get it...if He plays, you lose
Blowing all your money on a defensive player, while your team can't win games. And ignoring your QB issues, major OL depth, and no 1 WR.
Groundhog day.
LOL, yes, this is the Giants ignoring the QB issues. You've understood this move well.
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in the scouting report say "lamb-killer?"
Yeah, I paused on that too. In the context of the other comments, I think it's a (negative) play on lion-killer - he beat up on the weaker opponents, had problems with the stronger ones (Alabama, Georgia).
Ah, ok. That makes sense.
It seemed like a really disturbing hobby that was getting overlooked.
Notables: Sanders (Colorado), Beck (Georgia), Ewers (Texas), Milroe (Bama), Ward (Miami), Dart (Ole Miss), Leonard (ND)...
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DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
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In comment 16428350 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
Well for 1, he's not better than Lock but that's neither here nor there. Did you miss what the Broncos and Raiders did in the past two seasons? They benched their starters for backups who aren't nearly as a good to avoid injury guarantees kicking in when they decided they wanted to move on. In the Giants case, they'd be deciding that on draft night and one of the major benefits to drafting a QB is the rookie-scale contract. This should be very obvious to anyone paying attention.
because if healthy until someone proves otherwise (drafted QB) he's the best QB on the roster that gives them the best chance to win?
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lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
I think the idea if to have someone who can start week 1 if Jones can't play. Cutlets is not the guy and they may not want to be forced to play the rookie if they feel he is not ready.
If that is the plan, all you are looking for a is a guy with some starting experience with upside who comes cheap. That sounds like what they got.
I agree. He can move around and throw downfield. Works for me until the rookie is ready.
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In comment 16428364 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16428350 mphbullet36 said:
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DJ health is obviously still a concern but if the Giants draft a QB does that mean they would keep 3 QB's on the roster and/or just cut a 5 MM? Seems like some wasted resources if thats the case.
Or they could go WR in round 1 and then pick a more developmental QB later the in the draft and have Lock as DJ insurance.
Jones’s contract is a sunk cost. You cannot under any circumstances risk his injury guarantee if you draft a QB high. That would be a disaster. *Up to* $5M is a small price to pay to ensure that doesn’t happen
so even if Daniel Jones is the best QB on the roster they won't play him out of the fear of the injury Guarantee...thats not how they will operate. If Jones is healthy he will play because he is better than Drew Lock.
Well for 1, he's not better than Lock but that's neither here nor there. Did you miss what the Broncos and Raiders did in the past two seasons? They benched their starters for backups who aren't nearly as a good to avoid injury guarantees kicking in when they decided they wanted to move on. In the Giants case, they'd be deciding that on draft night and one of the major benefits to drafting a QB is the rookie-scale contract. This should be very obvious to anyone paying attention.
that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
This is getting ridiculous....
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IF the Giants did not like any QB in 2024, who is coming out in 2025? I trust your early take on this more than any expert.
Notables: Sanders (Colorado), Beck (Georgia), Ewers (Texas), Milroe (Bama), Ward (Miami), Dart (Ole Miss), Leonard (ND)...
This is a good list. Couple other guys who may have a chance also... You got Will Rogers (Washington) who I like, Dillon Gabriel (Oregon), and Kyle McCord (Ohio State)
It is so stupid.
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In comment 16428371 JJ2525 said:
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lock started 2 games for Seattle last year. He kept a game close against SF and he beat the Eagles. He's a backup with a big arm. Who did you think were were going to get? He's fine as a backup.
I think some are thinking Jones was the bridge QB, a rookie would be the QB2 and then you would have Tommy Devito as a cheap QB3.
I think the idea if to have someone who can start week 1 if Jones can't play. Cutlets is not the guy and they may not want to be forced to play the rookie if they feel he is not ready.
If that is the plan, all you are looking for a is a guy with some starting experience with upside who comes cheap. That sounds like what they got.
That is certainly plausable but still thats a decent chunk of money and potentially risking the McKinney comp pick (if Adoree signs somewhere). They could have went a cheaper route if you were really worried about Daniel Jones week 1 availability.
that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
This is getting ridiculous....
Denver wasn't eliminated from the playoffs... Also neither of those teams drafted a QB high in the first round. When you do that, you're going to do everything you can to make sure that pick pans out. But now I see I'm wasting my time, you're one of those Jones truthers who can't seem to move on from him for some odd reason.
Whaaa!
I keep saying, @ 6......it is not a given that the Giants can get the QB the Giants want.
I don't buy in on the premise that any of 4 QBs would be acceptable.
I also do not think Schoen will be held hostage either.....and would be perfectly fine drafting one of the Stud WR.
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that was after they were eliminated from the playoffs...the Giants aren't going to signal they are tanking Week 1...LOL that is lunacy.
Also Drew Lock being better than Daniel Jones is comedy. What team has Drew Lock taken to the playoffs? What year has Drew Lock had a QBR over 50? Daniel Jones has had 3 seasons.
This is getting ridiculous....
Denver wasn't eliminated from the playoffs... Also neither of those teams drafted a QB high in the first round. When you do that, you're going to do everything you can to make sure that pick pans out. But now I see I'm wasting my time, you're one of those Jones truthers who can't seem to move on from him for some odd reason.
come on it was in week like 17 and they were 7-8 and just lost to one of the worst teams in football (Patriots) when they replaced him and Wilson play wan trending downwards.
They were just trying to protect themselves for the last couple of games...they didn't go into the season with this mindset. These are completely different scenarios.
And I love the back and forth...whenever someone disagrees people always go to those vague silly "jones truthers".
Point to me one career statistic where Drew Lock is better than Daniel Jones...I'll wait. I don't have to be a Jones truther to say Daniel Jones is a better QB and gives us a better chance to win over Drew Lock.
That also doesn't mean I think we need to reset the QB clock and get a new QB because I also don't trust Jones health long term.
No he is not here to be QB3. He is here to be Temp QB1 until he becomes QB2.
Agreed, given the 2025 injury guarantee I think the most synareo is we draft a QB at 6 and that Jones is released once he can pass a physical
I keep saying, @ 6......it is not a given that the Giants can get the QB the Giants want.
I don't buy in on the premise that any of 4 QBs would be acceptable.
I also do not think Schoen will be held hostage either.....and would be perfectly fine drafting one of the Stud WR.
That is cheap backup money. Hahaha... You think Locke got starter money? Where else was he going to go? If we draft a QB which is likely the rookie will most likely be QB3, Locke QB2, and DJ QB1 for about 6 games. At which point Rookie QB1, Locke QB2, and DJ QB3 so he doesn't get hurt.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
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Maybe Daboll can unlock Lock.....the kid does have an arm. They see upside.....low risk flyer.
I keep saying, @ 6......it is not a given that the Giants can get the QB the Giants want.
I don't buy in on the premise that any of 4 QBs would be acceptable.
I also do not think Schoen will be held hostage either.....and would be perfectly fine drafting one of the Stud WR.
this all makes sense but if they draft the WR and stick with this QB room which is bad and doesn’t offer any hope they’re losing their jobs. This rivals the 23 patriots for worst QB room in the sport.
Even if they don't go QB in round 1 they will take a QB at some point. I wouldn't be suprised by a 2nd rounder.
That's why I made the comment about smoke around Jones.
There are now two scenarios:
- Jones, Lock, DeVito/day 3 pick/UDFA
- Highly drafted rookie, Lock, DeVito/day 3 pick/UDFA
Jones isn't going to be here as a backup, and Lock wasn't brought in to be a starter.
So either they're now set at QB, or Jones is done.
A month ago I'd have said it's Jones/Lock/QB3. Based on everything we've heard I have to admit I think I was wrong.
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Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
No he is not here to be QB3. He is here to be Temp QB1 until he becomes QB2.
This is the only thing that makes sense.
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Yes Tommy Devito is horrible.
We are drafting a QB and I would not be surprised if we move up to get one!
Right before today we had one fucking QB available for offseason work.. ONE!!!!
We had to have a backup no matter what.
This doesn't prevent us from drafting a QB, quite frankly it may have cemented that we are drafting one but maybe that one will sit a bit before hand while keeping Jones on the bench at the same time.
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In comment 16428401 Mike from Ohio said:
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Yes Tommy Devito is horrible.
looking at Drew Lock's career he's been pretty horrible as well LOL
They literally DO NOT have another option. It’s simple as that. They paid Jones big money, his play dropped off. But they are still paying him like a QB1. They need to hope he can bounce back.
As for the “but they can trade up”, I’m sure they made calls, which led to the rumors about them being done with Jones. The reality is it takes 2 to make a deal and those top 3 teams do not want to trade out. The Giants have no control over which QB they get in the draft. Because of that, they are currently NOT planning on drafting a QB at 6. It’s simple.
Lock is exactly what it looks like. A decently paid QB2 who will give them a chance to win games (like he did for Seattle against Philly) if Jones misses time.
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
+1. I like what I saw of Lock last season. He may be the best QB on the roster currently.
@Connor_J_Hughes with more on the Giants signing Drew Lock and what it means for their quarterback situation moving forward: on.sny.tv/0RdpdRa
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In comment 16428401 Mike from Ohio said:
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
I think a cut could be in play with a high pick QB. Trade very unlikely with the injury clause. We will see.
What is not happening is a healthy Jones to start training camp or shortly afterwards is not being shelved for the season with no chance to compete or play. That has multiple negative consequences.
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In comment 16428418 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 16428401 Mike from Ohio said:
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
Sitting Jones for the season is the best move if they are really trying to take this rebuild to the next level. 22 million in deadcap hurts, 45 would be devastating. Drew Lock and rookie compete for the job imo. Even an early season ending injury to DJ could trigger a 45 million dollar dead cap vs 22m deadcap.
I think a cut could be in play with a high pick QB. Trade very unlikely with the injury clause. We will see.
What is not happening is a healthy Jones to start training camp or shortly afterwards is not being shelved for the season with no chance to compete or play. That has multiple negative consequences.
I think you're onto something. Mara would prefer we give Jones a chance to find another starting job via post June 1st release vs. Benching him the entire year.
You don't want to lock up a lot of cap money with a guy who spends almost the entire season on the bench. This is a good deal for the Giants, getting a backup QB
Seems they're sticking with Jones and judging by the players picked up, they are filling spots that are sparse in the draft, i.e., ER's, OG's, etc. Probably focusing on the deep class of WRs, CB, and S. But who knows Schoen's vision for the team? Not me.
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In comment 16428430 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16428418 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 16428401 Mike from Ohio said:
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
The idea of the league is not to land as many comp picks as possible. You are trying to build a team to win games.
Drew Lock is better than DeVito. He is not much of a drop off from Jones. It is possible Jones is not ready to start the year, and it is possible that Jones is done taking snaps for the Giants. Both may require someone else to start some games before the rookie QB is ready.
there was literally someone saying the Giants would sit Jones all season even if he was healthy out of fear he would get injured because of a injury guarantee.
So people do plan for the future. I doubt Lock helps you win many games. I'm just saying maybe this move means more than it may seem. It doesn't seem like it but also why would Drew Lock also come here to be QB3? Got to have had some backup jobs...unless he thinks he has a pathway to start the year here if Jones isn't healthy and then the Giants wouldn't be able to take him out if he was playing well while they drafted a young QB.
Even though the $$$ are smallish...I still think it means something.
Sitting Jones for the season is the best move if they are really trying to take this rebuild to the next level. 22 million in deadcap hurts, 45 would be devastating. Drew Lock and rookie compete for the job imo. Even an early season ending injury to DJ could trigger a 45 million dollar dead cap vs 22m deadcap.
So Daniel Jones can outplay everyone during camp and look healthy and because you fear him getting hurt you would not play him or release him.
Yeah that will go over really well in the lockeroom.
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Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
So, here is a potential problem with hoping QB4 drops to 6.
I think I read this hear and I had a convo with a huge Vikings fan as well, MN may be willing to trade the 11th pick and Justin Jefferson to AZ for the 4th pick. They could leap frog us and then what?
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
I don't agree. Now I see QB1 as either Jones or a rookie. I don't think there's room for both.
I think the scenario that just got eliminated is "draft a Day 2/3 guy to develop behind Daniel, who is still our franchise QB". I think it's either Jones/Lock or rookie/Lock.
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
Wilson signed for Vet min I believe because he will be QB1 in Pittsburgh who has a better OL and WRs. Giants wanted him, but he passed and more money wouldn't matter because unless you pay him 50+ mil the money will be the same no matter where he went.
JK. I have no idea what they're going to do.
I really hope this signing means Jones is done with the Giants.
Tyrod (and Devito) outplayed DJ, so it makes to get a shittier back up QB. Makes DJ lovers (Mara) happy.
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
There's no hard and fast rule. A player sits or doesn't sit based on what he does in prep and practice and if the coach thinks he's ready or not.
These things aren't decided before a player is picked. They're just not.
I'm stumped.
This makes me feel like we aren't drafting a QB and I really don't like that feeling. Whether it's true or not.
If the Giants have determined that there are 4 QBs in this draft they would take at #6, they need to trade up to #4 to ensure they get one. What they can't do it hope one falls to #6.
If they stay at #6 it tells you that they were ok going in a different direction than QB (or they are ok with any of 6 QBs).
If I am the Schoen I already have a deal in place with Arizona to jump up to #4 if the first 3 picks are QB and I only see 4 in this draft.
Depending on how the draft falls... I can see the Giants trading down to 11. And then again, maybe to 12 or 13.
There are a lot of holes to fill and this is a deeeep draft from Mid Rd 1-Rd 3...
And you still might end up with Bo Nix.
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In comment 16428455 Mike from Ohio said:
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
and they just cut Jones? What if Jones is playing well?
This year they want a guy with a big arm so if DJ remains check down Charlie, they have another direction to go it.
All of this is independent of what happens in the draft, we can't guarantee how that will play out for us, but at a minimum there will be a developmental QB added.
Depending on how the draft falls... I can see the Giants trading down to 11. And then again, maybe to 12 or 13.
There are a lot of holes to fill and this is a deeeep draft from Mid Rd 1-Rd 3...
And you still might end up with Bo Nix.
Cutlets is not starting week 1. He may not even be on the roster.
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In comment 16428455 Mike from Ohio said:
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
I don't agree. Now I see QB1 as either Jones or a rookie. I don't think there's room for both.
I think the scenario that just got eliminated is "draft a Day 2/3 guy to develop behind Daniel, who is still our franchise QB". I think it's either Jones/Lock or rookie/Lock.
I think thats my point...some were making this not a big deal. I think it does signal the Giants are either rolling with Jones + Lock. Or if they go QB at 6 they probably move on from Jones.
The only problem with that if they pick JJ and he's not ready to play right away and Lock is not as good as Daniel Jones the Giants would pay a lot of money for Jones to walk away and potentially be worse THIS year for it. I don't know how that would sit in the lockerroom.
Depending on how the draft falls... I can see the Giants trading down to 11. And then again, maybe to 12 or 13.
There are a lot of holes to fill and this is a deeeep draft from Mid Rd 1-Rd 3...
And you still might end up with Bo Nix.
Interesting info, thanks for sharing.
All the smoke around NYG wanting a QB is correct and they'll draft one of those at either 6 or a slight trade up to 4 or 5.
The week 1 QB room looks like this:
-Lock
-Rookie
-DeVito/UDFA on the practice squad
Jones either on PUP, post June 1 cut or somehow traded. I don't think Jones on the roster works.
Schoen has said, "the expectation is Jones will be the starting QB week 1." Expectations haven't always panned out for Schoen.
Depending on how the draft falls... I can see the Giants trading down to 11. And then again, maybe to 12 or 13.
There are a lot of holes to fill and this is a deeeep draft from Mid Rd 1-Rd 3...
And you still might end up with Bo Nix.
I dunno, Nix might surprise a lot of people if he's coached up the right way.
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In comment 16428463 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 16428455 Mike from Ohio said:
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
and they just cut Jones? What if Jones is playing well?
I think it is safe to assume Jones isn't playing well. If he does play well for a week or two history has shown it is about to turn around.
The Giants can't afford to keep playing this "what if Jones is actually good?" game. It hasn't worked for 5 years.
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Who are you going to get with starting experience and some upside potential for less than $5M year on a one year deal?
I guess I don't know Jones true health...if there are legit concerns he could miss the start of the season. Was there not a recently cut QB that wouldn't count against the cap formula?
I mean is Drew Lock that much better than Tommy Devito?
Someone had to take the backup position vacated by TT
If the Giants have determined that there are 4 QBs in this draft they would take at #6, they need to trade up to #4 to ensure they get one. What they can't do it hope one falls to #6.
If they stay at #6 it tells you that they were ok going in a different direction than QB (or they are ok with any of 6 QBs).
If I am the Schoen I already have a deal in place with Arizona to jump up to #4 if the first 3 picks are QB and I only see 4 in this draft.
Mike from Ohio,
We can only hope the Giants have a plan in place. Getting a top WR and the 11th pick is similar to our 6th and our 1st next year. That would suck. otherwise if AZ just goes MHJ then we can move up for our 3rd round pick in 2024.
You have to believe that Schoen wants one of JD, DM or JJM.
It's refreshing to see someone else who doesn't buy the McCarthy hype.
I have zero trust in Lock….if you watch that last 92 yard drive to beat Wagles in the final 2 minutes….he threw so many bad balls….could have had several interceptions….yeah he did have two good long balls but he never would have had that if the Eagles defense made the pic….plus a few short passes to guys cutting were horrendous….
NO THANK YOU….
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In comment 16428478 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16428463 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 16428455 Mike from Ohio said:
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
and they just cut Jones? What if Jones is playing well?
I think it is safe to assume Jones isn't playing well. If he does play well for a week or two history has shown it is about to turn around.
The Giants can't afford to keep playing this "what if Jones is actually good?" game. It hasn't worked for 5 years.
No one is saying Jones will be player great but he could still give us the best chance to win at the time. And not sure why Lock on a 1 year 5 MM would get better treatment then a QB that been in the system and hasn't a track record of being a better QB than Lock.
Now the injuries are absolutely a concern and I would get that. But Jones was a competent QB just 2 years ago. If we get better oline play its not crazy to think Daniel Jones gives us the best chance to win next year.
Now going forward I totally get it...at that point his contract is moveable and you move him. I'm specifically talking this year.
If Jones isn't ready to go... They're going to take care of their investment and make you happy to see him when he's cleared.
Cutlets is a feel good story. With a better O Line, they think the passing paisan might be able to give fans a little something to cheer for while they wait for DJ, or the Rookie to be ready.
You might even get a medium Pepsi and a slice...
Have you followed this organization?
Drew Lock isn't starting opening night. Jones likely isn't starting opening night. And they're not going to let a Rookie get flogged by the fans in week 1.
Jussayin.
Same to you in that scenario after week 6 of the season. Last 4 of 5 years that’s been 1-5 . Then what?
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In comment 16428403 Go Terps said:
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Unless all the smoke is bullshit, Jones is done here.
Yep.
Schoen might be looking at it this way. He can sit tight at 6 with his fingers crossed and wait for Maye or McCarthy, odds favor 1 of them being there (especially McCarthy). While also knowing if he misses there, he likes one of Nix or Penix enough to move back slightly and grab 1 of the other 2.
In terms of a serious investment in the QB position via the 2024 draft, I cut it off after Nix/Penix. Those are the last of the guys I can see being viable starters and short term competition to Jones and Lock.
So, here is a potential problem with hoping QB4 drops to 6.
I think I read this hear and I had a convo with a huge Vikings fan as well, MN may be willing to trade the 11th pick and Justin Jefferson to AZ for the 4th pick. They could leap frog us and then what?
That would be a deal I doubt we could top. Then you trade back at least once and either wait till the 2nd or roll the dice on drafting Rattler in the 3rd or 4th.
if both Jones and TT are hurt
Hey I missed the post - what smoke? Cutting Jones after June 1st?
You're saying that Cutlets is starting on opening night?
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In comment 16428463 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 16428455 Mike from Ohio said:
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Lock did not sign here to be QB3. He is here as temp QB1 / QB2.
agreed but if they pick a QB in round 1...you would also be assuming the Giants have no interst to play there 1st round pick all year.
Not at all. When the rookie is ready he takes over and Lock becomes the #2.
and they just cut Jones? What if Jones is playing well?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...
Oh, you're SERIOUS?
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Drew Lock isn't starting opening night. Jones likely isn't starting opening night. And they're not going to let a Rookie get flogged by the fans in week 1.
I think he is. And I think he’s throwing shit at the wall.
You're saying that Cutlets is starting on opening night?
But seriously, maybe they see something in Lock’s game that they saw in Allen’s game.
I don’t know if this signals that they will pick a QB with #6 but it leaves some options about what they will do and when.
This is what I think as well.
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think if the Giants miss out on the "big four" QBs, they will likely try and trade down and target Nix.
This is what I think as well.
I would bet JS has explored any angle, trade up or trade down, he could imagine. He knows he has to get this right.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
This is where Schoen is a little lose with the money.
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This is where Schoen is a little lose with the money.
$5M for Lock is fine.
$82M for Jones is not.
This is where Schoen is a little lose with the money.
Who are you signing for vet minimum other than Russel Wilson?
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Did they do that for Jones last year?
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About Drew Lock.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Did they do that for Jones last year?
Jones cannot stay healthy
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
And further - what would we be missing out on? The general belief is that the non-QB pick should be Nabers or Odunze...but the general belief is also that this draft is stacked at WR.
But isn't this a big reason they pay Schoen? I would hope he's gathering good intelligence on where those QBs are likely to be drafted.
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that guy $5 mill? That is stupid. Vet minimum or find another QB.
This is where Schoen is a little lose with the money.
$5M for Lock is fine.
$82M for Jones is not.
Too much money for a backup QB.
What exactly does Jones have to do with this? He is not in the conversation. It is about $5 mill for a back up..
I'm stumped.
This makes me feel like we aren't drafting a QB and I really don't like that feeling. Whether it's true or not.
Drew Lock isn't good. Don't let this confuse you.
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
Nix or Penix at 6? No wayJose!
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football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
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In comment 16428617 section125 said:
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that guy $5 mill? That is stupid. Vet minimum or find another QB.
This is where Schoen is a little lose with the money.
$5M for Lock is fine.
$82M for Jones is not.
Too much money for a backup QB.
What exactly does Jones have to do with this? He is not in the conversation. It is about $5 mill for a back up..
5 Mil which is the MAX of the contract is probably one of the cheapest backup in the league
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He wouldn’t be a mentor to a young QB as he doesn’t have a ton of starting experience.
Its Giants quadrupling down on Jones...This isn't competition for QB1, this is a signing for QB2 competition
What are you talking about.
This doesn't impact the draft which means this doesn't impact DJ's future here. Also, last I checked Joe Montana wasn't a UFA. Who did you want to sign? Rich Gannon would be a good under the radar move, if this was 1999.
I see Lock as either the starter, ala Kerry Collins, in the event Schoen doesn't select a quarterback in the draft this year, or as a placeholder starter, ala Kurt Warner, in the event they do. So I would expect Lock to be the day one starter in either case. For those who doubt Lock's upside, watch the film of the Eagles game this past fall and his cannon on several of the throws that brought the Seahawks back to win that game.
I see Tommy Cutlets as either the backup to Lock if they don't select a quarterback in the draft, or as the practice squad guy in the event that they do. I remain hopeful that DJ never takes a snap again for the Giants.
No way do I force a QB with Penix or Nix at 6. Take the 1st or 2nd rated WR and they trade back up into the first if need be.
Before you say "No way!," were you predicting DJ at 6? Who knows for sure what their board really looks like--and what the possibilities could be 6 weeks from now at that particular moment.
That said I saw Sy's post last night (so before the Lock move, if that would make any possible difference) saying: "Time to go all-in on a QB." And I could certainly be wrong, but I think that is not a viewpoint he necessarily held a few weeks ago.
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I agree, now we have to get a QB because having just Jones and Lock is not a stable situation. If all 4 are gone I grab Nix at 6 and don't look back. Really any of the top 6 could turn out to be good NFL QBs
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In comment 16428627 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I agree, now we have to get a QB because having just Jones and Lock is not a stable situation. If all 4 are gone I grab Nix at 6 and don't look back. Really any of the top 6 could turn out to be good NFL QBs
Or they could be the second coming of Jones. I'm fine with Schoen needing to come away with the 4th rated QB. But Penix or Nix at as the 5th rated QB just to draft one at a premium position at #6, no way do I do that.
[quote] He can do a lot more with the raw talent of Lock. Lock has an elite ceiling in terms of arm talent if Daboll can work magic on Lock's accuracy and foot work. Which Daboll did fairly effectively with Josh Allen.
improving accuracy is probably the least coachable aspect of any qb.. id throw some cold water on that expectation. Josh Allen is a unicorn not the norm.
I don't know why we make it more complicated than this.
Twisting yourself in knots trying to 'uncover' what's right in front of you.
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In comment 16428373 pjcas18 said:
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football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
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About Drew Lock.
He has his flaws and consistency has not been good but this guy can really sling it. Maybe Daboll and Kafka can lift this guy up a notch. The raw material is certainly there.
Did they do that for Jones last year?
There is no raw material to work with in Jones.
You can't polish a turd...
Teams are just playing roulette now with these guys. It's comical.
Teams are just playing roulette now with these guys. It's comical.
There are only about 8 or so QBs worth paying.
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In comment 16428390 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16428373 pjcas18 said:
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football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
This discussion is going on for too long LOL. Neither are incorrect but I think I lean towards PJ on this one. "The Coca-Cola Company" is the official name but if I had a friend who said The Coca Cola Company every time they could have said Coke or Coca-Cola, I would have probably verbally assaulted them every time they said The Coca-Cola Company.
Now back to regualar scheduled programming...QB or no QB? that is the question, either way it's probably a New York Football Giants tradegy sponsored by .... Medium Pepsi
Rudolph probably gets Lock money at best. One of his wins the D allowed 11 points and another was against Baltimore’s backups in a downpour. The Seattle game he did well, but had insane support from the running game (over 200 yards and 3 TD’s). Lock led a 4th quarter comeback versus Philly.
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Lock gets 1 for 5 (has pretty much done nothing), Tyrod gets 2 for 18 (can't stay healthy), Darnold gets 1 for 10. I would have preferred Rudolph I think.
Rudolph probably gets Lock money at best. One of his wins the D allowed 11 points and another was against Baltimore’s backups in a downpour. The Seattle game he did well, but had insane support from the running game (over 200 yards and 3 TD’s). Lock led a 4th quarter comeback versus Philly.
I actually did the player vomp on Football Ref and Lock actually looks better and has better arm talent.
And Lock doesn't stop us from doing anything else at the qb spot. If Jones can start the season, Lock can be cut without much cost or they can trade him, and if Jones can't start the season, Lock can and if he runs with the job, oh well for Jones. There really is no downside to this signing.
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bad is the quarterbacking in the NFL?
Teams are just playing roulette now with these guys. It's comical.
There are only about 8 or so QBs worth paying.
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In comment 16428373 pjcas18 said:
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football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
My reaction was the opposite of pjcas18's. I started watching our Giants only a decade or so after the baseball Giants moved to SF, and everyone called the NYG the "Football Giants." It's cool to recognize the historical name. I chuckled. You go Anakim.
This says nothing about the QB future for the Giants and as per usual BBI over-reacts.
Love this site and all the articles and OPs, but the sniping at each other and the Giants and Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and inserting those into otherwise interesting threads, is beyond annoying.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
Ummmmm okaaaaay.... What makes you think this nonsense?
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
You are right. They are cutting DJ as soon as he passes a physical and Lock will be the starter until Penix is ready...
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
And I'll admit, I was a fan of Lock out of Mizzu.
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Very curious to see how he does in Daboll's lab.
And I'll admit, I was a fan of Lock out of Mizzu.
Same here, I loved the arm talent he showed at Missouri.
One bit of hope is if Lock can be taught accuracy like Allen was. That is a STRETCH. Because Lock can certainly gun it. Knowing where it's going is another thing.
If he throws the ball to open receivers that is already a bonus.
Link - ( New Window )
As I expected….lots of brain farts by Lock…many opportunities for interceptions. He just doesn’t seem smart enough or quick enough to process everything quickly. He reminds me of Jones in the passing, but unlike Jones in that he seems hesitant to take off if he feels nothing is there.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
They were always going to sign a veteran QB to replace Tyrod. And I don’t see how this signing means they won’t draft a QB in the first round.
I’m not even sure Jones will be healthy enough to start the season.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
I dont see this. They already have Devito as a toolsy project to mess around with.
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
I agree. Nix at Six.
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
I like Nix at Six. IMO he's the best QB in the draft and he could start immediately. 61 career College starts.
[quote] In comment 16428271 JoeyBigBlue said:
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He wouldn’t be a mentor to a young QB as he doesn’t have a ton of starting experience.
Its Giants quadrupling down on Jones...This isn't competition for QB1, this is a signing for QB2 competition [/quot
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
This. Come out of 6 with a QB.
And I'm not convinced that Maye or McCarthy are either better than Penix or Nix.
Agree. I would not be upset with Nix or Penix at #6. If you think one of these guys is a potential franchise QB, you don't trade down because of some perception that the guy shouldn't be taken before #18.
I think a lot of Teams aren't giving away the fact that Nix is high on their draft boards. Giants please take Nix at Six.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
Why? Why can't the Giants "carry" the exalted Drew Lock and a banged up Jones along with the first round QB?
Again, DREW LOCK has NOTHING to do with April. He's a career backup who might not even last as a backup.
Just act like nothing has happened at QB this FA period. We're in the same place we were last month.
WHAT???
Jones is not going to be moved. Slight chance he's cut, and even that seems like a pipe dream from the legion here who would rather see the Giants fail then see DJ start week 1.
Maybe he's even benched all year long. I wouldn't rule that out although it seems unlikely.
QB early is absolutely still in play. Smarten up.
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a first round QB to opening day. They're not.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
Why? Why can't the Giants "carry" the exalted Drew Lock and a banged up Jones along with the first round QB?
Again, DREW LOCK has NOTHING to do with April. He's a career backup who might not even last as a backup.
Just act like nothing has happened at QB this FA period. We're in the same place we were last month.
Daniel Jeremiah has him as #29 in his Top 50. There's a chance he gets selected toward the bottom of the first round, but no way do you waste a premium pick #6 on him. Take one of the top WR's or JJ McCarthy perhaps there at 6.
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In comment 16428621 Mike from Ohio said:
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Denver, Las Vegas and New Orleans at 12-14 all could be in on a QB (and that is assuming MN is out because they traded up to #4).
If you trade down past those teams, Nix and Penix may both be gone. If Nix is your fall back plan in Round 1 you best grab him at #6. If you are down in the late teens or 20s you may be looking at overdrafting Rattler to come away with a QB.
Yeah, that's the problem. Nix could easily go to any of the teams you mentioned.
I like Nix at Six. IMO he's the best QB in the draft and he could start immediately. 61 career College starts.
A little early to be hitting the bottle isn't it...
Go watch the games he started last year vs SF and Philly. He has a LOT of talent. He needs to improve upstairs. Im looking forward to seeing what Daboll can do with him.
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a first round QB to opening day. They're not.
Some have ventured that this means Jones is the one to get moved and Giants can still draft the first round QB.
Wouldn't rule that scenario out, but, most likely, Jones is QB1, Lock is QB2, and there is a minimum wage late round QB drafted.
They were always going to sign a veteran QB to replace Tyrod. And I don’t see how this signing means they won’t draft a QB in the first round.
I’m not even sure Jones will be healthy enough to start the season.
I didn't say the Giants definitely won't draft a QB in the first round, but that I don't see Jones, Lock and a first rounder all being on the 2024 in-season roster.
Many people have asked: why didn't the Giants franchise Jones, so they only guaranteed him $32M rather than $82M? The answer is that the path the Giants followed resulted in Jones having a 2023 cap number of $15M rather than $32M, and they wanted to build a team that would give Jones the best chance to succeed.
If Giants are so far "out" on Jones that they draft a first round QB, I believe they would do whatever it takes to get somebody to take at least some of his $47M cap hit off their hands, to give their 2024 QBs the best chance to succeed.
But I don't see this as the most probable scenario for the first round pick. I think a non-QB is more likely.
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In comment 16428390 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16428373 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
As pointed out below this post of yours and above this reply by me, this whole conversation might be archaic and unnecessary. But because your argument here is so lame, it requires me to point out that "Football" was not and is not part of the Cardinals official team name.
You know what would be archaic and unnecessary? Calling the St. Louis Cardinals the Chicago Cardinals. Or calling the Arizona Cardinals the St. Louis OR Chicago Cardinals.
Speaking of pretentious, how about you call the team whatever you like and let everyone else do the same?
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In comment 16428390 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16428373 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
football Giants. it's archaic and unnecessary.
It is so stupid.
Go tell Mr. Mara, kids.
The New York Football Giants
Did you know? The Giants' legal name is “The New York Football Giants” to distinguish them from the New York Giants baseball team, which played in New York from 1885-1957 before moving to San Francisco.
Clearly there was a time when it made sense.
Do you think there is any confusion now or that using it is archaic and unnecessary.
Do people say the "football cardinals"? the St. Louis Cardinals overlapped for football and baseball a lot more recently than the NY Giants did but no one is pretentious enough to call them the football cardinals. Know why? it's archaic and unnecessary.
While the distinction isn't necessary, it's still the official name. You can contrast this to say AT&T who's legal name is AT&T and no longer American Telephone and Telegraph