Nothing earth shattering here - and I know I am not coming up with new thoughts. This is simply to help me (maybe you?) put into words where this franchise is going with this draft class and offseason overall.
Route 1:
*All in on the next QB*
Even though they lost a valuable piece of currency to trade up from #6 - they have the ammo to get up to number three. #6, the 2025 first, and another day 2 pick (this year or next) should get it done. No question. I feel confident this can be done. because ATL is the only realistic team within striking distance of getting up that high. LV? MIN? DEN? Getting to #3 from outside of top ten is almost unheard of.
If they have the franchise QB grade on three guys - they can sit back and just wait to see who escapes the top 2. If they only have that outlook on 1-2 guys - that is where this gets tricky. On the flip side - if they have similar grades on 4 guys - the cost for moving to 4 (or 5) won't cost as much. I have to think they would have a preference, however.
Based on past profiles (which is not the end all) - I think FO would lean toward Maye. He has issues that need to be fixed - but they have the season-plus to fix and develop.
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Route 2:
*Punt on QB. Continue to build this offense with 2025 in mind.*
NYG will wait to address long term QB in 2025. They will have some spending flexibility if a Dak Prescott shakes free or they could be the top destination for whatever veteran comes available. And yes - there will be some prime draft candidates in next year's crop.
But without knowing where you'll be sitting slot wise - this seems like a stretch. This philosophy centers around building the nucleus so well that it almost won't matter who is under center as long as the guy is somewhat capable. See Detroit and Jared Goff. See Los Angeles and Matthew Stafford.
Taking this route allows NYG to go after a true #1 WR prospect or a high-end OT prospect. Based on numbers alone - they will have one or both of those options available at #6. You develop them in year one and expect them to be REAL DUDES in year two.
The last variable here is shopping #6 to teams looking for a QB. NO, DEN, MIN...if NYG can load up on extra 2025 draft picks - it widens the possibility of getting whatever QB they want in next year's draft in addition to extra capital.
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Route 3:
*Take the defensive player you want*
I do not see any scenario where a defensive player comes off the board before #6. One could make the argument we do not see one in the top 10. If NYG has a high enough grade on any of them (any position) - you get that final blue chip piece.
I know, offense offense offense. NYG is so far away from contenders on that side of the ball. Remember NYG fans - you can never have enough pass rushers. Ever. NYG could have whichever one they want at #6, possibly even after a slight trade down (#10 if NYJ needs an OT1?)
The move for Brian Burns is encouraging to me. Why? I said this last year - this team has zero identity. None whatsoever. They haven't had one for years. We thought it would be Odell + Barkley...explosive plays left and right. We thought it could be ground and pound once the former was traded to Cleveland. We thought it could be an efficient offense after year one of Daboll.
Fail, fail, fail. When others zig - you need to zag. Everyone (almost) in the NFL is pursuing explosive plays and scoring more points. Why not try to build an elite defense? There are pieces in place for this to happen - but there is a need for more weaponry. You get another pass rusher in here and he hits? Now NYG can say they have something nobody else has.
And, of course - you find the QB in 2025.
What do we think? I know I have a preference on which direction I want - but I do think a case can be made for any of the three.
Remember - open minds.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Guys, we are in position to get a franchise qb in a strong QB draft class with no guarantee we will be in this position again, and no guarantee next year will be great. That's how Daniel Jones got drafted.
It's a QB. Period.
i just hope we’re able to finesse this. The top 3 seem impenetrable via trade right now and 4 or 5 are possible trade destinations for other QB needy teams.
Can we stay at 6 and take McCarthy? That is the sweet spot. We can then address needs like WR, S, DT, etc.
Try for strategy #1, and default to #3 if you can't get NE's pick.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
After Marvin he may be as talented as Rome or Malik
With the additional second rounder. Now we have two
Get Nate Wiggins or Quinyon and have two very young and very good bookends at CB
With the other second rounder DT. I’m all in on Tvondre Sweat. Between him and Dex the run defense will be solid and KT and AO and Burns our pass rush is solid
I’m all for waiting to see how DJ looks and I do like Locke
If all else fails with QB then draft one next year but these other positions will be solid
It’s the team’s most glaring need and sitting at 6 with ammo to move up - they maty not be in a better position for a long time. Get one of the guy(s) you think has the potential to be a top-10 QB or better. Nothing will be more impactful to success than having the right guy under center.
If all they want is Maye, then they better trade up. If they can't, then we could see the option 2 above plus potentially take a 4th rd flier on Fields or sign Tannehill.
If I knew their QB rankings I could guess much better
I don't think a number 1 WR will help this years team because I have a very low opinion of our QB - and I do think he going to be the QB next year whether they pick a QB in the draft or not.
I am not in favor of spending another 1rst round pick on the Oline -- I would like to see whether our new OLine coordinator can make hash out of what we have and spending that kind of draft capital is really long range planning and crowding the roster - and maybe even creating a more frustrating situation. I would spend a draft pick on oline -- but not at 6 this year
I am totally in favor of stacking the defense and creating a real powerhouse there
I think this coaching staff can make hay with a strong defense and get enough out of the offense to win some games and be respectible
What if the Vikings trade Justin Jefferson to the Cardinals in a trade for #4? Then LA has a chance at MHjr at #5.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
Guys, we are in position to get a franchise qb in a strong QB draft class with no guarantee we will be in this position again, and no guarantee next year will be great. That's how Daniel Jones got drafted.
It's a QB. Period.
What if they don't have the grade on 4 QBs?
And you could...maybe...just not open the thread if you're actually sick of it :)
This teams needs talent at so many positions I can't see giving up 2025 draft capital to move up to 3 especially when it's Mayes or McCarthy.
Get extra 2025 picks, draft BPA and make a move next year for a QB either through the draft, Free agency or trade.
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think they can sit still and get a QB at 6. For Minny at pick 11 to move up to 5 is going to cost a lot and will they do that for QB4? Not sure that will be the case. If not we can take the top WR available. We can trade down and take a Nix or Penix. We can trade down twice and get Newton to play DT next to Lawerence. You can draft a QB in round 2 or 3. They can take flyer on Joe Milton to see if Dabs could develop him. I mean there is a lot we can do and who knows what we will do. I think we move to pick 5 for a 4th rounder and take our QB though.
What if the Vikings trade Justin Jefferson to the Cardinals in a trade for #4? Then LA has a chance at MHjr at #5.
Again that is a lot for a chance to draft QB4. Unless they just want to unload JJ why would they do that? As I stated though I would either trade down and a take a Nix/Penix later or take the top WR available.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
If they covet the top 3 but can't get them, a small trade down can net them Nix/Penix and they get an addl pick.
I really dont want to lose that 25 1st. I think JS has many contingencies but there will be a price he wont go beyond to get into the top 3.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Where it gets dicey is if the QB they want isn’t available and/or no one will trade.
In that case, I would think the play would be to trade down and plan on using 25 to get the QB while using 24 to continue building the core.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
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imo it would be stupid for Pats to pass on a QB unless they have 2 guys way above whoever QB3 is. and it would certainly be crazy for them to trade that pick before knowing who goes #2 even if #1 is already decided.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
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but I would be exploring trading for Fields. I don't care for Maye at all. I'd be good with Daniels or McCarthy but if you can get Fields for a 4th and draft the best WR at 6 this would be a great alternative. Fields is making no money right now and it would take very little draft capital to acquire him.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
You get a full year to assess while being able to draft an elite WR at 6 this year. Worst case scenario is Fields sucks and you are back in this spot next year. Costs very little in draft capital to get Fields. The upside is that Fields is a good QB and you've already started to build around him. This is of course if Schoen doesn't care for Maye or McCarthy. I personally like McCarthy and don't like Maye.
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In comment 16430292 Doubledeuce22 said:
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but I would be exploring trading for Fields. I don't care for Maye at all. I'd be good with Daniels or McCarthy but if you can get Fields for a 4th and draft the best WR at 6 this would be a great alternative. Fields is making no money right now and it would take very little draft capital to acquire him.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
You get a full year to assess while being able to draft an elite WR at 6 this year. Worst case scenario is Fields sucks and you are back in this spot next year. Costs very little in draft capital to get Fields. The upside is that Fields is a good QB and you've already started to build around him. This is of course if Schoen doesn't care for Maye or McCarthy. I personally like McCarthy and don't like Maye.
You have to decide on Fields 5th year option for 25 million this May. You trade for him you almost have to agree to that so you are on the hook for 25 million next year and a lot the years after.
Slight trade down (9-14), draft best WR/OT.
Then either draft back up in late 1 or stay at 2 for next tier QB.
With the trade down, hopefully they picked up draft capital for 2025 as well and re-evaulate QB then.
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for the input, but I don't think the Giants are getting to #3 for #6, a day two pick, and our one next year. NE has no QB and the franchise is in the doldrums, just like the Giants. A new QB gives a team and its fanbase hope. And when will they be in this position again? The only caveat is that they may be OK with getting a QB next year, but that is a risky proposition as I said. It certainly isn't a given that they will be able to do so.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
not only will they be top 5 but they will be at March 10 2025 with no QB under contract.
they are going to add someone else beyond brissett this offseason to compete to start, the question is who. i think the most obvious answer is their plan A is someone at #3 (though it's possible they dont have a QB3 that makes the grade).
I would risk the overpay to move up and get our hands on one of the top 3 QBs.
WR is an okay outcome at #6 with Nabers or Odunze on board. Anything else at that spot and I would likely be disappointed in how this shook out.
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In comment 16430278 Eric on Li said:
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imo it would be stupid for Pats to pass on a QB unless they have 2 guys way above whoever QB3 is. and it would certainly be crazy for them to trade that pick before knowing who goes #2 even if #1 is already decided.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
People said the same thing about Mayfield and TB last year. Different situations, I know.
But it could be just about keeping the situation clear for 2025. Again - only if they view Harrison as special. That team needs WR1 as bad as they need QB1
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I always appreciate your view.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Sy,
Do you have any feeling on who could be viable franchise QB's that might be in the 2025 draft?
I can tell you I think there will be 4 QBs worth going for at 6. That does not mean NYG will.
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for the input, but I don't think the Giants are getting to #3 for #6, a day two pick, and our one next year. NE has no QB and the franchise is in the doldrums, just like the Giants. A new QB gives a team and its fanbase hope. And when will they be in this position again? The only caveat is that they may be OK with getting a QB next year, but that is a risky proposition as I said. It certainly isn't a given that they will be able to do so.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
Can't assume anything, especially in sports. NE could be a middle of the pack team next year. Right now they are in a position to draft a QB without having to give up draft capital to do so. We might also have a bad record and finish in the top five of the draft. The Giants still have a lot of holes.
This QB class in my view is overrated and overhyped. I wouldn't be surprised if none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM became franchise QBs. Same for Penix, Rattler, and Pratt. One might, two or three others might be journeyman like Darnold, and the rest will be out of the league in a few years.
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In comment 16430305 johnnyb said:
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I always appreciate your view.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Sy,
Do you have any feeling on who could be viable franchise QB's that might be in the 2025 draft?
Beck (Georgia) and Milroe (Alabama) have the upside for it. Couple others can rise like Daniels did.
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
* And for the record I very much am anti-Jones, but we're likely stuck with him for at least a year.
But we can't waive the white flag. Getting the best player available and eating a shit sandwich on QB for another year is a nasty proposition, but so is reliving the Daniel Jones pick i.e. reaching for a dud at #6 and trying to develop him for 2, 3, 4 years.
Being absolutely set at lead receiver is something to consider as being the best move for the organization BEYOND this regime's lifespan.
Some on this board are trying hedge their disappointment by talking themselves into Nix or Penix at #6. Hell, I secretly wouldn't even mind Penix on the Giants under the right circumstances, but reaching far down the consensus draft board out of desperation is just more of the same. You can't reconcile the rightful criticism of NYG the last 10 years and also be an advocate of drafting anyone who was a quarterback in college football last year at #6. Manufacture a safe trade down to recoup some picks. Something.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
People said the same thing about Mayfield and TB last year. Different situations, I know.
But it could be just about keeping the situation clear for 2025. Again - only if they view Harrison as special. That team needs WR1 as bad as they need QB1
i'd say different players more than situation, Brissett will be 32 and he has been a pretty pure backup for 4 straight years on 4 different teams now. i guess geno smith did it but seattle also had lock on his rookie deal competing with him, which was at least a live option. even tampa had trask last year.
that's to me the tell w/ Brissett - the Pats are 100% going to bring in someone to compete to start with him, and if that's the case i think it's enormously likely their plan A is #3 pick.
I would think it would be a very risky move to give up assets for #3 if they had no clue what Washington was going to do. If Schoen "somewhat knows" that Peters isn't going Maye, then it makes all the sense in the world. But to trade up to 3 and have to pick between some QBs who they "like" but don't love is not a good scenario.
If Maye is gone by 2, I would hope they stick to #2 in your scenarios.
One final question - do you think there is any talk at all about Giants moving up to #1?
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
2) Stay put at 6th overall and draft a QB. Likely for Maye if he’s still there or McCarthy if they like him enough at 6th
3) Stay put at 6th overall and draft a non-QB, very likely one of MHJ, Nabers or Odunze. Take a QB with 2nd rounder or trade up into mid / late first round to get Penix or Nix.
4) Trade down a small amount, say with Bears at 9th overall. Pick up 3rd rounder and / or 2025 2nd rounder. Bears take WR and Giants take McCarthy.
5) Trade down a lot, say to mid / late first round. Get 2025 first rounder. Take Nix or Penix.
6) Take non QBs with 1st, 2nd and possibly 3rd rounder. Take a flyer on a developmental QB such as Joe Milton III
That’s what everyone said in 2019
I also think the Giants already have a feeling the guy they want is on that top 3.
If they were going QB I think they would have kept Taylor and eventually dumped Jones when healthy. Let the kid learn from Taylor as the starter. Taylor has done this before for 2 QBs. Taylor also knows the system very well.
The smart money is on WR at 6. Get either the best or 2nd best. They are all pretty much ranked in the top 10 everywhere so it’s not a stretch.
I 100% would not give away my 2025 1st rounder. It very likely will be in the top 10 and could be in the top 5 with no proven weapons on O.
I highly doubt pass rusher at 6 given the investment on Thibs and burns and the need matching value at WR.
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Nothing else matters
That’s what everyone said in 2019
No, everyone didn’t. Not with a moron GM making the decisions.
So the problem is that "The QB" is a finite resource. If the Giants think there are 3 of them, and those 3 are selected 1-2-3 in the draft with none of those teams willing to trade out, how do you "get the QB?"
I already think this is probably a much better team with the investments on OL/DL and the Jones/Barkley nightmare in the rearview mirror. I don't think the Giants are going to be picking this high again next year.
I hope a trade is available and that the Giants can move up for their guy if he is there, but I certainly don’t want them reaching. They have a complete roster that needs to be rebuilt, QB is the most important choice and they already screwed up once by signing a guy that isn’t it to a deal last year.
I do think 6 will be in play for a team that wants an OT before Tenn can take one.
I can see Chi as well as the Jets bumping up.
But now that you have Burns and Thibs, Edge isn't the move there. Don't see CB worth top 10.
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Nothing else matters
That’s what everyone said in 2019
Everyone was not saying that, no matter how many times you pretend they did. Most of this board wanted Josh Allen in the first and wanted no part of Haskins or Jones.
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In comment 16430384 Go Terps said:
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
The Nix/Penix tier imv isn't good enough to draft as a replacement for Jones. YMMV, and therein lies the grey area, if I'm reading Sy correctly. But, if no QB in round 1 I'm more likely looking at CB or DL in round two (if they go WR at #6).
It's a rationalization that people who have convinced themselves that this year must be QB or bust have embraced. As you pointed out, there's no way to know how the next QB class shapes up. Now it is quite possible that next year class will suck but to state so with such conviction this early reeks of a bad faith argument.
Now it would be funny if the Giants felt the opposite and traded back to collect assets for the next draft class. I would do that myself but it is still a team building legitimate strategy.
P.S. If I started a thread with a wait until next year's draft to get the new QB, what's over/under until the first "They deserved to be fired if they did that response" 10/15 mins?
Plus, even if that's not the case, you are risking the injury guarantee by playing him as soon as he is able.
I already think this is probably a much better team with the investments on OL/DL and the Jones/Barkley nightmare in the rearview mirror. I don't think the Giants are going to be picking this high again next year.
Not to miller this thread, but I'm curious. You had concerns about Nix and his arm at the combine being able to make all the throws. Do you think he could still be worth a first round pick?
I would think it would be a very risky move to give up assets for #3 if they had no clue what Washington was going to do. If Schoen "somewhat knows" that Peters isn't going Maye, then it makes all the sense in the world. But to trade up to 3 and have to pick between some QBs who they "like" but don't love is not a good scenario.
If Maye is gone by 2, I would hope they stick to #2 in your scenarios.
One final question - do you think there is any talk at all about Giants moving up to #1?
Yes - I do think NYG is in that conversation
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In comment 16430390 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16430384 Go Terps said:
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
The Nix/Penix tier imv isn't good enough to draft as a replacement for Jones. YMMV, and therein lies the grey area, if I'm reading Sy correctly. But, if no QB in round 1 I'm more likely looking at CB or DL in round two (if they go WR at #6).
One of the best QB evaluators out there Chris Simms has Bo Nix as QB3. He threw well at the combine and his pro day. He had an amazing year. He has the Parcel's experience matters for QBs coming out with a record 61 games. He has size, speed, nice release, throws off platform, great accuracy, went through adversity and still continued to improve, he isn't bad in any one area, he has a Plus arm strength at 58 MPH, etc.... I am warming up to him more and more.
Maye has been talked about for awhile - yes. Daniels - not so much.
Ourlads had a late one-early 2 last year if he was going to come out and I don't think anyone else looked at him as better than round 3/4
It is always a shot in the dark but advanced scouting is a thing. If NYG likes the look of the future crop - that route looks better.
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In comment 16430384 Go Terps said:
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
Nix/Penix appear to be another Daniel Jones caliber prospect at best.
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If they're truly done with Jones I think they've got to find a way to come out of round 1 with a QB. Picking 6th in a 4 QB draft (I still think Penix is going to be a steal and Nix can play but disregarding that) is probably going to be better odds than they get next year.
I already think this is probably a much better team with the investments on OL/DL and the Jones/Barkley nightmare in the rearview mirror. I don't think the Giants are going to be picking this high again next year.
Not to miller this thread, but I'm curious. You had concerns about Nix and his arm at the combine being able to make all the throws. Do you think he could still be worth a first round pick?
Yeah, maybe. I wouldn't be upset if the Giants picked him, Even at 6. I think too much is made of where in the first round someone is picked. If the Giants like him, I'm fine with it. To me this is a Daniels/Penix draft, so I'm not seeing it the way most are anyway.
But assuming it's Williams/Maye/Daniels/McCarthy in the generally accepted top tier, I'm hoping the Giants have the draft with one of them.
Plus, even if that's not the case, you are risking the injury guarantee by playing him as soon as he is able.
I will dive down this hole when my QB reports are done...sorry to kick that can down the road. But you're on the right road.
2. Trade to 4 or 5. Do not trade 2025 #1 as it could be a very high pick.
3. Stay at 6 and pick #4 QB if one falls.
4. Stay at 6 and pick Odunze, Alt
5. Slight trade for extra Day two picks and possibly 2025 #1 depending on how far down we trade (7 to 15). BPA for us would likely be the number 2 or 3 OT, the number 1,2, or 3 defensive player, Bower, #5 QB (Nix, Pennix).
I like 4 or 5.
No way Bo Nix makes it past 12 for Denver. He is the perfect Payton QB.
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In comment 16430414 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16430390 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16430384 Go Terps said:
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
The Nix/Penix tier imv isn't good enough to draft as a replacement for Jones. YMMV, and therein lies the grey area, if I'm reading Sy correctly. But, if no QB in round 1 I'm more likely looking at CB or DL in round two (if they go WR at #6).
One of the best QB evaluators out there Chris Simms has Bo Nix as QB3. He threw well at the combine and his pro day. He had an amazing year. He has the Parcel's experience matters for QBs coming out with a record 61 games. He has size, speed, nice release, throws off platform, great accuracy, went through adversity and still continued to improve, he isn't bad in any one area, he has a Plus arm strength at 58 MPH, etc.... I am warming up to him more and more.
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
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In comment 16430466 JonC said:
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In comment 16430414 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16430390 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 16430384 Go Terps said:
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My preference is scenario 1 but if they can't trade up (I agree their target is probably Maye) do you think they'd be interested in the Nix/Penix tier?
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
The Nix/Penix tier imv isn't good enough to draft as a replacement for Jones. YMMV, and therein lies the grey area, if I'm reading Sy correctly. But, if no QB in round 1 I'm more likely looking at CB or DL in round two (if they go WR at #6).
One of the best QB evaluators out there Chris Simms has Bo Nix as QB3. He threw well at the combine and his pro day. He had an amazing year. He has the Parcel's experience matters for QBs coming out with a record 61 games. He has size, speed, nice release, throws off platform, great accuracy, went through adversity and still continued to improve, he isn't bad in any one area, he has a Plus arm strength at 58 MPH, etc.... I am warming up to him more and more.
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
Penix has the injury past and he'll be 24 before the start of the season, Bo Nix will also be 24 before the start of the season. Absolutely no way I consider them at 6.
What's the gray area? The risk of not being able to get either or less talented/increased bust factor (vis-a-vis the top 3-4)?
Nix/Penix appear to be another Daniel Jones caliber prospect at best.
"At best"?
Wow - didn't quite expect that. I'm not head over heels for either as well, but I see attributes more favorable than what Jones brings.
If they feel like none of these guys are potential franchise QBs or there’s no trade up opportunity, I’m perfectly fine with them taking a WR. I’d be surprised if they valued a defensive player above the WRs available.
I guess in order right now, I am 1 2 3 if I were to rank the choices.
I think Jones career is going to end in 2024.
I think you could win with him if healthy.
Healthy is not is the cards.
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
I live on the west coast and I have seen more Bo Nix than I wanted too as a Cal fan. He is much better than you think. Again Chris Simms who is one of the best QB evauls has Bo Nix at QB3. Go watch Simms on Bo Nix, then watch Bo Nix again and you see a lot of what he is saying. Again I have Bo Nix QB5, but I trust Simms and watching Nix again without rooting against Oregon I see a damn good QB.
My big fear is the 2024 Carolina situation happening all over again, where we trade our 2025 1st, and it ends up being a top 5 pick (or like Carolina, 1OA). Even with a new QB at the helm (taken with our 1st pick- be it 6OA or moved up), this is a still a talent deficient team that is destined to be picking in the top 10 again next year.
If one of the Giants' top graded QB's are gone by 6, take the alpha WR and punt QB to next year. The 2025 1st round pick is very likely to be a top 10 or even top 5 pick, and the alpha WR gets seasoned for a year.
Whatever you do, DO NOT TRADE the 2025 1st round pick UNLESS you use it to move up to the #1, #2 pick, or can guarantee your TOP RATED QB this year.
If one of the Giants' top graded QB's are gone by 6, take the alpha WR and punt QB to next year. The 2025 1st round pick is very likely to be a top 10 or even top 5 pick, and the alpha WR gets seasoned for a year.
Whatever you do, DO NOT TRADE the 2025 1st round pick UNLESS you use it to move up to the #1, #2 pick, or can guarantee your TOP RATED QB this year.
In other words do not trade the 2025 1st round pick for sloppy seconds due to panic.
This year and next year's 1st round pick should be used on a blue chip QB and blue chip WR... These two will be paired at the hip for years to come. It's important to get it right and ensure the talent is elite and not just "okay".
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In comment 16430486 Amtoft said:
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
I live on the west coast and I have seen more Bo Nix than I wanted too as a Cal fan. He is much better than you think. Again Chris Simms who is one of the best QB evauls has Bo Nix at QB3. Go watch Simms on Bo Nix, then watch Bo Nix again and you see a lot of what he is saying. Again I have Bo Nix QB5, but I trust Simms and watching Nix again without rooting against Oregon I see a damn good QB.
All good, I'm not coming up to QB3 on Nix with Simms.
Never go into a draft with the mindset of picking one position, and ignoring all others. You've got to be flexible.
Schoen/Daboll need to be open and honest with Mara now about their plans. If they think they blew it with DJ, say so, and discuss the plan to move forward, even if that means suffering with DJ for another year. Don't sell unrealistic expectations. W-L mean less than showing actual improvement of the whole team. Improving the team may mean non-QB. Take a player who is likely to be good, not a meh QB just to take one, and that includes all the rounds.
If moving up to get a guy you want is feasible, go for it. If not, read the board when your turn comes, and make your pick. Maybe luck will be with us and a QB we want is available. Don't pick a QB from a lower tier over a top tier player.
Unlike most vocal others, I don't think we're desperate for a QB. Want one. Need an upgrade. but not so desperate we should take whatever ugly skank is available at closing time.
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In comment 16430511 JonC said:
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In comment 16430486 Amtoft said:
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
I live on the west coast and I have seen more Bo Nix than I wanted too as a Cal fan. He is much better than you think. Again Chris Simms who is one of the best QB evauls has Bo Nix at QB3. Go watch Simms on Bo Nix, then watch Bo Nix again and you see a lot of what he is saying. Again I have Bo Nix QB5, but I trust Simms and watching Nix again without rooting against Oregon I see a damn good QB.
All good, I'm not coming up to QB3 on Nix with Simms.
No way you move up for Nix.. That is stupid.
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But I haven’t seen an answer, so I’m going to ask again. Related to number 2, I keep seeing people refer to next year’s QB class as a weak class. Caleb Williams obviously won the Heisman and was a top prospect coming into this past college season. What about the other top 2/3 guys? If we had been discussing this a year ago, would people have been salivating over Daniels or Maye?
Maye has been talked about for awhile - yes. Daniels - not so much.
Ourlads had a late one-early 2 last year if he was going to come out and I don't think anyone else looked at him as better than round 3/4
It is always a shot in the dark but advanced scouting is a thing. If NYG likes the look of the future crop - that route looks better.
Thanks for the response Sy, I appreciate it.
If not, stand pat at 6 and draft Odunze.
Plan to be competitive in 2025, strong in '26, and excellent from '27-'30.
The list is long of teams putting out a young QB with no support and him failing
If Maye drops and you want to get him at 6 that is different. I am not trading draft assets to move up
It has been far to long since they've scared teams with defensive players.
Dex is there, but he needs a Keith Hamilton. KT with the addition of BB could be a solid rush, but one more pipe hitting player could usher in a new era of fear across the league.
The question is, as you stated, no concensus top 10 guy, so trade down and to pick up the impact guy?
They are picking 6th in a draft with four generally accepted prospects. It is rare to get odds that good. If they draft a QB what are they missing out on? Odunze or Nabers? So what? College football is cranking out WRs.
Unless of course Vrabel/BB is waiting to take over after next year.
if a QB they like is there....pull the trigger.
If a BPA they love is there....pull the trigger (I assume WR)
If they get blown with a trade down.....pull trigger....add chips to go all in next year!
Not being a big gambler myself, option 2 is the way I lean today. Just not sure whether I make the WR pick at 6 or do the trade down. Guess it depends on the bounty.
A QB with a bad OL, OK RB, questionable TE and bottom 5 WR scares nobody unless you are Mahomes
Again, if they trade up and give up next years 1 and 2 you are looking at 2026 to potentially grab a 1 at WR
Grab a QB at 6, fine, don’t trade up
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In comment 16430486 Amtoft said:
I like Nix, saw most every Oregon game that was on TV in the NY area the past 20 years. But, I'm not hitching my wagon to him if my goal is SB wins I don't see Brees in him as many seem to.
I live on the west coast and I have seen more Bo Nix than I wanted too as a Cal fan. He is much better than you think. Again Chris Simms who is one of the best QB evauls has Bo Nix at QB3. Go watch Simms on Bo Nix, then watch Bo Nix again and you see a lot of what he is saying. Again I have Bo Nix QB5, but I trust Simms and watching Nix again without rooting against Oregon I see a damn good QB.
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think they can sit still and get a QB at 6. For Minny at pick 11 to move up to 5 is going to cost a lot and will they do that for QB4? Not sure that will be the case. If not we can take the top WR available. We can trade down and take a Nix or Penix. We can trade down twice and get Newton to play DT next to Lawerence. You can draft a QB in round 2 or 3. They can take flyer on Joe Milton to see if Dabs could develop him. I mean there is a lot we can do and who knows what we will do. I think we move to pick 5 for a 4th rounder and take our QB though.
What if the Vikings trade Justin Jefferson to the Cardinals in a trade for #4? Then LA has a chance at MHjr at #5.
This doesn’t really compute. Why would AZ pay big bucks to JJ when they have MHJ on a rookie deal for five years? Never happening.
Will AZ even be willing to consider passing on MH Jr? So many unknowables.
Me. Stay at 6. Take the best guy or a QB if you think JJ or Pennix if they can be the guy take them. Let them sit a year since you fucked up and have to pay Jones anyway. But I just don't believe anymore that you can tell which Qb is truely that next franchise guy.
Trevor Lawrence was a much better prospect than any of these guys in his sleep. Half of this site thinks he's meh. Just think you need a better team and hope you somehow you find an above average Qb. And if Schoen wants to trade 5 picks for a Qb. Great. But the easy thing to do is post here. Zero consequences. Same people screaming for a "franchise" Qb wanted Darnold and Rosen. And not many were demanding Josh Allen So. Yeah.
If one of the Giants' top graded QB's are gone by 6, take the alpha WR and punt QB to next year. The 2025 1st round pick is very likely to be a top 10 or even top 5 pick, and the alpha WR gets seasoned for a year.
Whatever you do, DO NOT TRADE the 2025 1st round pick UNLESS you use it to move up to the #1, #2 pick, or can guarantee your TOP RATED QB this year.
What the hell good does a top 10 pick get us next year? We have 6 now and it’s a deep QB draft and we still may get shut out of the prospects Schoen likes.
Poorly thought out.
As far as Bo Nix goes I don't have the skill set to make an educated prediction whether his ceiling is a top 10 NFL QB or a career backup. I do know it's really hard to evaluate how college QBs will translate in the NFL because the minor league competition level, the types of throws and pre and post snap responsibilities are dramatically more challenging in the NFL. GMs who are paid millions of dollars to make those evaluations bat well under .300 from what I can see.
Here are the QBs drafted in the top 11 in the past 6 drafts:
2018
#1 Mayfield - average starter
#3 Darnold - bottom 10 starter or backup
#7 Allen - top 5 tier QB
#10 Rosen - out of the NFL
2019
#1 Murray - average starter
#6 Jones - bottom 10 starter or backup
2020
#1 Burrow - top 5 tier QB
#5 Tagovailoa - average starter
#6 Herbert - top 10 tier QB
2021
#1 Lawrence - top 15 tier QB
#2 Wilson - bottom 10 starter or backup
#3 Lance - bottom 10 starter or backup
#11* Fields - bottom 10 starter or backup *Giants pick
2022
No QBs taken in the top 11
2023 (too early to tell I think, but based on rookie years)
#1 Young - His team, front office and owner are so bad that he may fail
#2 Stroud - top 10 tier in a remarkable rookie season. Let's see year 2
#4 Richardson - played better than expected until he got hurt. Has to protect himself better.
16 QBs taken top 11 since 2018.
2 - top 5 QBs Allen and Burrow
2 - top 10 QBs counting Stroud and Herbert
1 - top 15 Lawrence (as he gets more experience he could move up to top 10)
3 - average starters Mayfield, Murray and Tua
6 - bottom 10 starter/backup or out of the league
2 - Too soon to tell Young and Richardson
11 QBs taken top 5. Burrow and Stroud (it's too early to really tell on Stroud) are the only 2 of the 11 that you could call "franchise" QBs.
I think if a QB is picked top 10, certainly top 5 the expectation of the team that drafts him is that he will develop into a top 10 NFL QB. I consider 4 out of the 16 QBs drafted top 11 since 2018 to be top 10 NFL QBs and one of them has only played his rookie year. That's a .250 batting average giving Stroud the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't regress. If he does and it's 3 out 16 that's a .188 average.
Picking a QB top 10 in the draft is not for a GM who is faint of heart. More than likely if you end up with a bottom 10 stater/backup you get fired. But I think teams need a top 10 NFL QB to be serious Super Bowl contenders. I think the Giants GM and HC think so too.
This, and I for one would take the best WR left.
1. 2024 probably looks like 2023 in that the Giants probably get starts from all 3 quarterbacks
2. Reasonable expectation is 5-8 wins
3. After 2024 season Jones is cut, Lock is FA, DeVito is ERFA
4. Top of the FA QB market is Prescott, Goff...maybe Tua?
5. Giants pick anywhere from 5-12ish in a draft where the only first round guys are Carson Beck and Jalen Milroe.
Is that a more fertile landscape to add the next starting QB than the current one?
They are picking 6th in a draft with four generally accepted prospects. It is rare to get odds that good. If they draft a QB what are they missing out on? Odunze or Nabers? So what? College football is cranking out WRs.
Seems so short-sighted to look at it like that. If we apply your same logic to reaching for a QB in 2019, it didn't hurt us I guess to miss out on a bonafide stud in Josh Allen to throw a dart at a QB then. Is it really that easy to find a stud #1 WR that missing out on one possibly in Harrison/Nabers/Odunze is something to brush off so lightly?
More importantly the Jones pick also meant we weren't thinking about drafting a QB the next year when we should've been ready to jump on Herbert/Tua.
If you don't think it's the right guy, there's a lot to lose here and I don't think it's nearly as obvious as you make it out to be to draft QB no matter what.
Draft a WR and Jones is healthy and plays well as offense OL is better and legit WR makes difference
You can do this 100 times and spin however you want
The GM and coach have seen this QB play 22 games with a playoff win. Is the 5 1/2 games in 2023, most w/o AT, Barkley and WanDale enough to suddenly trade all sorts of assets for another question mark. I don’t see it that way
Williams is the closest to the sure thing but as mentioned Lawrence was viewed as the best QB prospect since Luck and people here would move on from him
I am not throwing away assets to chase a QB
MHJ is the only guy I would trade UP for.
How about going BPA at 6?
Even a CB (Terrion Arnold) paired up with Banks....
Lock down CBs in the modern NFL would be awesome
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What is sure is that the Giants don't currently have a viable starting QB.
They are picking 6th in a draft with four generally accepted prospects. It is rare to get odds that good. If they draft a QB what are they missing out on? Odunze or Nabers? So what? College football is cranking out WRs.
Seems so short-sighted to look at it like that. If we apply your same logic to reaching for a QB in 2019, it didn't hurt us I guess to miss out on a bonafide stud in Josh Allen to throw a dart at a QB then. Is it really that easy to find a stud #1 WR that missing out on one possibly in Harrison/Nabers/Odunze is something to brush off so lightly?
More importantly the Jones pick also meant we weren't thinking about drafting a QB the next year when we should've been ready to jump on Herbert/Tua.
If you don't think it's the right guy, there's a lot to lose here and I don't think it's nearly as obvious as you make it out to be to draft QB no matter what.
Who's reaching for a QB? I'm talking about one of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy.
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In comment 16430610 Go Terps said:
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What is sure is that the Giants don't currently have a viable starting QB.
They are picking 6th in a draft with four generally accepted prospects. It is rare to get odds that good. If they draft a QB what are they missing out on? Odunze or Nabers? So what? College football is cranking out WRs.
Seems so short-sighted to look at it like that. If we apply your same logic to reaching for a QB in 2019, it didn't hurt us I guess to miss out on a bonafide stud in Josh Allen to throw a dart at a QB then. Is it really that easy to find a stud #1 WR that missing out on one possibly in Harrison/Nabers/Odunze is something to brush off so lightly?
More importantly the Jones pick also meant we weren't thinking about drafting a QB the next year when we should've been ready to jump on Herbert/Tua.
If you don't think it's the right guy, there's a lot to lose here and I don't think it's nearly as obvious as you make it out to be to draft QB no matter what.
Who's reaching for a QB? I'm talking about one of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy.
What if those 4 are gone?
In the situation we are in, it would take balls of steel to sit pat at #6 and hope a franchise QB drops to us. I couldn't do it, I would explore every avenue to make it happen.
But it's been a long time since we rock 'n rolled.
Agree.
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Given that, the Giants are beat placed to trade up to either of those slots. There is no reason they can't do that; it is not unrealistic at all.
Agree.
Could be they don't like the QB that's there. Hardly impossible.
My concern is if Arizona wants MHJr they will want more than chart value because Los Angeles could trade with someone who wants him
5. Giants pick anywhere from 5-12ish in a draft where the only first round guys are Carson Beck and Jalen Milroe.
Right now, the only bona fide first-round QB for 2025 is probably Shadeur Sanders. Which makes your point even more bearish.
Ewers, Beck, Milroe, Ward, Leonard, etc are all day two or less right now.
Why do you believe there will be more and better prospects next year, and why do you believe the Giants will be picking at the top of the draft?
Did the "Pass on a QB and fill out the roster" really leave the Giants still picking at 6 or higher? If so, that plan may be very flawed.
Fortune favors the bold.
Fortune favors the bold.
+1
Why do you believe there will be more and better prospects next year, and why do you believe the Giants will be picking at the top of the draft?
Did the "Pass on a QB and fill out the roster" really leave the Giants still picking at 6 or higher? If so, that plan may be very flawed.
The "it's a crapshoot" mentality requires one believe all drafts are equal. In fact it almost necessitates one believe all rounds are equal
Which is why it's bunk
I think Milton has a tremendous arm
Why do you believe there will be more and better prospects next year, and why do you believe the Giants will be picking at the top of the draft?
Did the "Pass on a QB and fill out the roster" really leave the Giants still picking at 6 or higher? If so, that plan may be very flawed.
It seems to be a recurring theme on here that all of MHJ, Odunze and Nabers are all going to be superstars but the QBs are too much of a risk to take a chance.
One or more of the WRs could be Charles Rogers or Darrius Hayward Bey
Minnesota could put Jefferson on the table with their first for all we know.
I think the NYG will get a shot at QB4, but it is not impossible they don't.
This drafts top WRs have a fair claim to being a better group than even Chase/Devonta/Waddle, if the worst case scenario is adding a WR on that level and then maybe also getting a dart throw at Nix or Penix that's not so bad (even if they need to trade up to the back end of round 1 and overdraft slightly to do it). Their 2025 first and #45 should be able to get them pretty high up back into the first round if that's what they want to do.
And it makes me wonder
Minnesota could put Jefferson on the table with their first for all we know.
I think the NYG will get a shot at QB4, but it is not impossible they don't.
This drafts top WRs have a fair claim to being a better group than even Chase/Devonta/Waddle, if the worst case scenario is adding a WR on that level and then maybe also getting a dart throw at Nix or Penix that's not so bad (even if they need to trade up to the back end of round 1 and overdraft slightly to do it). Their 2025 first and #45 should be able to get them pretty high up back into the first round if that's what they want to do.
I wouldn't trade a 2025 first for Nix or Penix.
I also would not be opposed or upset if they cannot move up and the QB they want is not there at #6 and they trade out of #6 to the 10-12 slot for an additional 2nd and 3rd round pick - whatever the price is. Then load up with as many pieces as possible.
I also wouldn't mind a flyer on Nix(if a trade back - not at 6). Taylor showed that a QB with even the slightest ability to read a defense could move the ball. Nix is a lot better than Taylor IMHO.
Six seasons. One playoff game.
Beckham and Barkley together in 2018 for Saquon's brilliant rookie season. Record 5-11.
The only elite WR for Parcell's and Coughlin's two apiece Super Bowl seasons was Plax. All the others were out of football two or three years later.
Minnesota could put Jefferson on the table with their first for all we know.
I think the NYG will get a shot at QB4, but it is not impossible they don't.
Agreed. If we really want to pivot away from Jones in a big way, we need to buy the Pats #3 spot.
It's got to be a Vito Corleone move where we make them an offer they can't refuse. May have to be willing to toss in KT to really sweeten the deal.
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My concern is if Arizona wants MHJr they will want more than chart value because Los Angeles could trade with someone who wants him
This for the morons who just don't get it. AZ is going to want a haul to move to 6. All this crab about Nabors being close to him is BS. MH Jr s the safest and most likely best player period. AZ needs him as Murray is about as average a Qb as there is despite all his never ending hype by some. And the Chargers can probably turn that 5th pick into a lot. Mitch Trubisky went 1st. Some team Amy be wiling to mortgage a lot to get JJ Daniels or Maye if he falls somehow.
The desire to be rid of Jones makes sense on and emotional level. But rationally you stay at 6 IMO
Draft a WR and Jones is healthy and plays well as offense OL is better and legit WR makes difference
You can do this 100 times and spin however you want
The GM and coach have seen this QB play 22 games with a playoff win. Is the 5 1/2 games in 2023, most w/o AT, Barkley and WanDale enough to suddenly trade all sorts of assets for another question mark. I don’t see it that way
Williams is the closest to the sure thing but as mentioned Lawrence was viewed as the best QB prospect since Luck and people here would move on from him
I am not throwing away assets to chase a QB
What exactly are you expecting from the '24 season? We should all resign ourselves to another mediocre season and that's ok because this draft will at least get us back on track. What were the first few seasons of Eli like? They were ready to run TC out of town. If we go QB then you need to lower your expectations for '24.
As far as Bo Nix goes I don't have the skill set to make an educated prediction whether his ceiling is a top 10 NFL QB or a career backup. I do know it's really hard to evaluate how college QBs will translate in the NFL because the minor league competition level, the types of throws and pre and post snap responsibilities are dramatically more challenging in the NFL. GMs who are paid millions of dollars to make those evaluations bat well under .300 from what I can see.
Here are the QBs drafted in the top 11 in the past 6 drafts:
2018
#1 Mayfield - average starter
#3 Darnold - bottom 10 starter or backup
#7 Allen - top 5 tier QB
#10 Rosen - out of the NFL
2019
#1 Murray - average starter
#6 Jones - bottom 10 starter or backup
2020
#1 Burrow - top 5 tier QB
#5 Tagovailoa - average starter
#6 Herbert - top 10 tier QB
2021
#1 Lawrence - top 15 tier QB
#2 Wilson - bottom 10 starter or backup
#3 Lance - bottom 10 starter or backup
#11* Fields - bottom 10 starter or backup *Giants pick
2022
No QBs taken in the top 11
2023 (too early to tell I think, but based on rookie years)
#1 Young - His team, front office and owner are so bad that he may fail
#2 Stroud - top 10 tier in a remarkable rookie season. Let's see year 2
#4 Richardson - played better than expected until he got hurt. Has to protect himself better.
16 QBs taken top 11 since 2018.
2 - top 5 QBs Allen and Burrow
2 - top 10 QBs counting Stroud and Herbert
1 - top 15 Lawrence (as he gets more experience he could move up to top 10)
3 - average starters Mayfield, Murray and Tua
6 - bottom 10 starter/backup or out of the league
2 - Too soon to tell Young and Richardson
11 QBs taken top 5. Burrow and Stroud (it's too early to really tell on Stroud) are the only 2 of the 11 that you could call "franchise" QBs.
I think if a QB is picked top 10, certainly top 5 the expectation of the team that drafts him is that he will develop into a top 10 NFL QB. I consider 4 out of the 16 QBs drafted top 11 since 2018 to be top 10 NFL QBs and one of them has only played his rookie year. That's a .250 batting average giving Stroud the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't regress. If he does and it's 3 out 16 that's a .188 average.
Picking a QB top 10 in the draft is not for a GM who is faint of heart. More than likely if you end up with a bottom 10 stater/backup you get fired. But I think teams need a top 10 NFL QB to be serious Super Bowl contenders. I think the Giants GM and HC think so too.
Excellent post.
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the fight over those draft slots 1-4 is less about whatever they are willing to give up and more about whatever other teams are willing to give up and where Arizona wants to land.
Minnesota could put Jefferson on the table with their first for all we know.
I think the NYG will get a shot at QB4, but it is not impossible they don't.
Agreed. If we really want to pivot away from Jones in a big way, we need to buy the Pats #3 spot.
It's got to be a Vito Corleone move where we make them an offer they can't refuse. May have to be willing to toss in KT to really sweeten the deal.
Was thinking the same.
It continues to amaze me that because some people don’t want to give up 2 years of prime picks to trade that they are QB averse - ridiculous.
Is Maye or Daniels considered better prospects as Darnold, Wilson, Rosen, Lawrence, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Mayfield, Stroud, Young, Allen, etc. Rosen was as big as Maye and everyone said he could make every throw. If you are prepared to give up the farm you better get a sure thing
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
If he were to fall and the other 3 QBs go 1-2-3 it would be interesting to see how the Giants play that out.
But I wouldn’t complain with option 1.
See what you have. If not enough you draft a qb down the road who is better than then the qb you draft this year.
It's a crap shoot with qb's even if they are picked in the top ten.
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Schoen needs to be proactive here and target the NE pick.
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Been saying and hearing Broncos love JJ and that Vikings having considerable talks with Cardinals about the fourth pick. Vikings are the current betting favorites to land JJ McCarthy, followed by Giants and Broncos.
This person correctly predicted Burns' trade and contract, as well as Calvin Ridley's destination before it was announced. Some speculate that this may be a front office or agent burner account. It seems that the Vikings may be considering jumping ahead of the Giants. Schoen should strive to be proactive, unlike Gettlemen or Reese.
@AllbrightNFL
If I had to guess today: QB match to team drafting them edition.
Caleb Williams - Bears
Jayden Daniels - Commanders
JJ McCarthy - Vikings*
Drake Maye - Giants
Bo Nix - Broncos?
Penix - Seahawks
Rattler - Buccaneers
*=trade up
8:06 AM · Mar 8, 2024
1. 2024 probably looks like 2023 in that the Giants probably get starts from all 3 quarterbacks
2. Reasonable expectation is 5-8 wins
3. After 2024 season Jones is cut, Lock is FA, DeVito is ERFA
4. Top of the FA QB market is Prescott, Goff...maybe Tua?
5. Giants pick anywhere from 5-12ish in a draft where the only first round guys are Carson Beck and Jalen Milroe.
Is that a more fertile landscape to add the next starting QB than the current one?
Absolutely not. The time to get a QB is now. If we want to keep building the rest of the team, I could see taking a run at Rattler in the 3rd or 4th (I cant forecast outside of round 1), letting Lock take a shot, if he fails, go with Rattler and see if he keeps progressing. Then we go into next year with Lock or Rattler, see what steps forward they take and if theres no progress, try again in '26.
I dont know. I think we either take a QB at 6 or day 2 this year. I think 6 is a great spot to pick Maye, an ok one to take JJ. But if either are there, wee pretty much have to take one.
But at the end of the day, if Schoen/Daboll build a good TEAM, with a hole at QB, I dont think that should get them fired.
If Schoen takes Odunze at 6, fixes the line, gets us players where we are a tough D again and Daboll gets the most out of our QB situation (meaning their talent might come up short, but we are RIGHT there) I think should get to keep working.
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In comment 16430983 Sean said:
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Schoen needs to be proactive here and target the NE pick.
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Been saying and hearing Broncos love JJ and that Vikings having considerable talks with Cardinals about the fourth pick. Vikings are the current betting favorites to land JJ McCarthy, followed by Giants and Broncos.
This person correctly predicted Burns' trade and contract, as well as Calvin Ridley's destination before it was announced. Some speculate that this may be a front office or agent burner account. It seems that the Vikings may be considering jumping ahead of the Giants. Schoen should strive to be proactive, unlike Gettlemen or Reese.
Someone asked if this was imminent Pretty Rickey replied:
“There's no rush to get these done right now but teams like to know if they have the capital to make a move. Most teams do due diligence calls but am hearing that Cardinals and Vikings have momentum in getting something done.”
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In comment 16430983 Sean said:
Quote:
Schoen needs to be proactive here and target the NE pick.
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Been saying and hearing Broncos love JJ and that Vikings having considerable talks with Cardinals about the fourth pick. Vikings are the current betting favorites to land JJ McCarthy, followed by Giants and Broncos.
This person correctly predicted Burns' trade and contract, as well as Calvin Ridley's destination before it was announced. Some speculate that this may be a front office or agent burner account. It seems that the Vikings may be considering jumping ahead of the Giants. Schoen should strive to be proactive, unlike Gettlemen or Reese.
Just to put things in context, this person also said: (1) the Giants are being very tight lipped on what the overall plan is for QB, (2) the Giants are not revealing their cards about what they are thinking re: QB in the draft other than that they like Maye, (3) the Giants should have the chance to match any trade offer the Cardinals get, and (4) the Cardinals are going to call every QB needy team prior to making a deal to see if anyone can match/top the best offer.
I would add that Schoen said this about his 2023 draft day trade with the Jags:“You try to go through as many of those scenarios as you can, and you know, you make the phone calls with the other general managers throughout the league and you have good dialogue and conversations, where if you get on the clock and there’s an opportunity.”
Bottom line is that I think that the Giants will have the chance to match or top any offer the Vikings make the Cardinals -- keep in mind the Cardinals don't have to go as far down in a trade with the Giants and there is a better chance the Giants are worse next year than the Vikings (which makes the Giants' future picks potentially more valuable). I also think that Schoen is doing his due dilligence on trading up to #4 assuming he wants to get up there to draft McCarthy.
Could be. Also leaking of these apparent Minnesota and Arizona talks could be Arizona wanting to generate more activity from the Giants and/or Denver. I do tend to believe the report about the Giants calling into the Top 3 because Breer I think is still pretty connected in New England so he probably has the Giants calling them pretty cold.
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In comment 16430983 Sean said:
Quote:
Schoen needs to be proactive here and target the NE pick.
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Been saying and hearing Broncos love JJ and that Vikings having considerable talks with Cardinals about the fourth pick. Vikings are the current betting favorites to land JJ McCarthy, followed by Giants and Broncos.
This person correctly predicted Burns' trade and contract, as well as Calvin Ridley's destination before it was announced. Some speculate that this may be a front office or agent burner account. It seems that the Vikings may be considering jumping ahead of the Giants. Schoen should strive to be proactive, unlike Gettlemen or Reese.
The Vikings would trade the Cardinals Justin Jefferson and maybe a 2nd in addition to their 1st to get the 4th overall pick is how I see it.
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who don't want to risk drafting a QB in 2024 because you can just get one in 2025.
Why do you believe there will be more and better prospects next year, and why do you believe the Giants will be picking at the top of the draft?
Did the "Pass on a QB and fill out the roster" really leave the Giants still picking at 6 or higher? If so, that plan may be very flawed.
It seems to be a recurring theme on here that all of MHJ, Odunze and Nabers are all going to be superstars but the QBs are too much of a risk to take a chance.
One or more of the WRs could be Charles Rogers or Darrius Hayward Bey
Heyward Bey rose because of his combine performance and was not thought of as high as he went leading up to that. Rogers was derailed by injuries. All 3 WR’s this year have been Top 10 picks since the regular season ended if not higher. That is not to say that they are free of bust potential or that injuries can’t happen, but the comparisons you used were not accurate.
If the QB is there...you take him. Otherwise make your defense awesome and get your offense to be serviceable.
It's a great spot to be in if Maye doesn't go 2. Let it play out with Odunze as the backup plan.
You'd think LA would want to go OT with Harbaugh establishing a new offense.
Sure they have, it’s just that they are as desperate for a QB as we are so they’re pegged to take one. There are also some rumblings of them trading Howell to Denver which reinforce them taking one.
I don't think WR or QB matter until you show you can consistently pass block.
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In comment 16430986 Rave7 said:
Quote:
In comment 16430983 Sean said:
Quote:
Schoen needs to be proactive here and target the NE pick.
Trading up to No.3 NE would be ideal but that's VERY LOW CHANCE (I think 1,2,3 are QB and I don't think NE will trade down, don't want to be disappointed until it really happens), so 4 or 5 would be ideal spot to trade up if Giants have Maye, JJM in the same tier. I think Sy would approve it.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Been saying and hearing Broncos love JJ and that Vikings having considerable talks with Cardinals about the fourth pick. Vikings are the current betting favorites to land JJ McCarthy, followed by Giants and Broncos.
This person correctly predicted Burns' trade and contract, as well as Calvin Ridley's destination before it was announced. Some speculate that this may be a front office or agent burner account. It seems that the Vikings may be considering jumping ahead of the Giants. Schoen should strive to be proactive, unlike Gettlemen or Reese.
The Vikings would trade the Cardinals Justin Jefferson and maybe a 2nd in addition to their 1st to get the 4th overall pick is how I see it.
Agreed. I think there is a high likelihood that the Vikings would include Justin Jefferson with any trade package to Arizona. They would have to, since Arizona would be giving up the chance to MHJ by moving down. Any package with Jefferson is more than the Giants could offer IMO.
I don't see Denver as a threat to move ahead of the Giants. They can't put together nearly the package that Minnesota can, especially since they don't have a second round pick.
The question is whether Las Vegas could move ahead of the Giants by trading with NE. They would have to offer a ton of draft capital to do so, but there are rumors that they love Daniels so I could see that happening. And again in that case, the Giants should not try and compete to offer a better package. Don't get into a "bidding war" for a player. I also don't think the Giants will try and move up for anyone but Maye.
The end result is that if the QBs go #1, #2, #3, and #4, then the Giants should either take Oduzne or Nabers at #6, or trade down.
- McCarthy feels like such a reach to me. I want no part of him at 6.
Keep building up the roster and keep an eye toward upgrading at QB when the situation it right. Big mistakes like paying Jones huge money or whiffing on a highly drafted QB are what needs to be avoided.
Also, not included because he was such a late pick - Lamar Jackson, drafted with the very last pick of the first round.
Yeah, the Ravens won the Super Bowl, then proceeded to draft their franchise QB from 32.
It's certainly a scary proposition to move up to get a guy. Whereas, if you don't, then your best option going forward is paying a free agent big money.
Me? Assuming the draft goes as expected, the idea of picking the BPA on defense at 6 is very interesting.
I know you save a LOT of money by getting a rookie QB who turns out to be a franchise guy, but as you all know, Dexter Lawrence wasn't exactly cheap this offseason, either.
But even that, I am OK going another direction. I actually think the team has so many holes that it would not be horrible to lose out on the QB sweepstakes. If you're not drafting the next Mahomes (I think Williams is that) then don't break the bank for a QB and develop one while going option 3.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
Yes, but when they DO work, you can end up with Mahomes or Josh Allen.
So if the other options are to stay put and hope a QB you like falls to 6, take a flyer on another QB later in the draft and hope you strike gold or punt the decision to next year and hope that the QB class is just as good and the Giants are in a position to draft one... I know what I want them to do.
If NE or even Chicago were open to a trade, I much prefer the Giants to gamble and make the "massive" trade up.
I can’t believe Schoen and company have been here a dozen years already. Time sure does fly!
Is New England willing to trade down past 6 and lose out on top WRs?
Who else is moving up for Maye if not Minnesota? Maybe Denver? Maybe Vegas? That’s a big drop for someone to trade out of the top 10 to.
Rattler or id look at Milton
Shedeur Sanders, Carson Beck and Ewers can all play.
Who will possibly trade up to 4 or 5?
# 8 Atlanta--no way, they just signed Cousins to a huge deal.
#11 Minny--absolutely.
#12 Broncos--sure thing.
#13 Raiders--yeppers.
so, that is who we have to worry about and prevent by having potential trades setup to beat them out.
if only 3 QBs are rated worth #6, then we have to be lucky. if we aren't lucky then either trade down or choose the best WR available.