I typically don’t pay any attention to internet chatter relating to the Giants.
But tonight I have seen 3 different posters (all with prior occasional accuracy) predicting an NFL team will be making a HUGE announcement tomorrow.
This was followed up by another Giants fan contacting me and showing me a 4th poster predicting a similar major move and actually mentioning it involved the Giants.
For those of you that have read my posts over many years know this is NOT the type of things I speculate on.
However, minutes ago, Giant WR Jalyn Hyatt actually just posted:
“soon…..”
I will not provide the handles of the 4 internet posters and provide them any more notoriety or activity
I can’t say that there is “fire” but I must admit all this has me smelling “smoke”- enough that I thought it was worthy of mention on BBI
If we trade our 2025 1 and go all in on this year with trade ups, trades and signings there's no reason why we couldn't compete for the playoffs with an easy schedule. Look at the Texans last year. They traded their 2024 1 to AZ in the tradeup for Will Anderson Jr. AZ expected a top 12 or better pick but all the moves the Texans made plus an easy schedule led them to the playoffs and left AZ with pick 26 this year.
"The Houston Texans traded away the No. 12 and No. 33 selections in 2023, plus a 2024 first-round pick and 2024 third-round pick for the No. 105 selection and right to take Will Anderson Jr." This was called the worst move of the offseason by many pundits but it paid off for them. That was from 12 to 3 though, I imagine we could trade pick 6, 2025 1st and 2025 3rd for 6 to 3.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the Giants' 2021 draft class was so bad, there's basically going to be no homegrown players up for extension other than maybe Ojulari (even he is a longshot). They'll have a good bit of cash next year to spend in FA to cover gaps.
But what's different now from then is that you don't have a player openly stating he doesn't want to be in the city that has the pick you want.
Plus for the Giants, don't they want to see who Washington takes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if it happened now, just seems unlikely.
Plus for the Giants, don't they want to see who Washington takes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if it happened now, just seems unlikely.
They probably have a good idea who Washington is interest in, and its very possible that they have the players closely graded together, where they would feel comfortable with more than one player.
Plus for the Giants, don't they want to see who Washington takes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if it happened now, just seems unlikely.
If they have Maye and JJ as their list then #3 guarantees them of getting one of these two and likely having the choice between them. They aren't going to #1 or #2 in their minds, so why leave #3 open for some other team to outbid them at the last minute
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like this happens until right before the draft or on draft night. Just too much uncertainty as to who Washington will take, and what's the benefit for NE of doing it now rather than waiting and squeezing the Giants as much as possible?
Plus for the Giants, don't they want to see who Washington takes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if it happened now, just seems unlikely.
If they have Maye and JJ as their list then #3 guarantees them of getting one of these two and likely having the choice between them. They aren't going to #1 or #2 in their minds, so why leave #3 open for some other team to outbid them at the last minute
And if the Pats have Nix rated highly they could take Nix at 6 or take Odunze/Nabers and make a big trade up for Nix, which if they really like him then they don't risk it imo.
Accorsi stood his ground and didn’t give up a King’s Ransom for Eli and waited / gambled and got a better deal. And Eli was much lower risk than the 2024 QBs IMHO.
Schoen needs to follow the Accorsi method and wait.
1. No rookie payscale so different world then and 2. We can absolutely stay at 6, and risk someone jumping us in the process. You don’t know what the price would be so being against it is strange.
Eric, Rico, Peppers, JonC, etc
I still have my guard down until this
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Eric, Rico, Peppers, JonC, etc
I still have my guard down until this
Are you expecting confirmation they are trying or that a deal will be successful?
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In comment 16431589 The Dude said:
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Eric, Rico, Peppers, JonC, etc
I still have my guard down until this
Are you expecting confirmation they are trying or that a deal will be successful?
anything really. Kind of like the lead up to Burns.
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Eric, Rico, Peppers, JonC, etc
I still have my guard down until this
Dude, your foursome needs some replacements.
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In comment 16431589 The Dude said:
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Eric, Rico, Peppers, JonC, etc
I still have my guard down until this
Dude, your foursome needs some replacements.
No doubt. Those are all great insiders. GoDeep is right there with them.
Did we get any confirmations?
Meanwhile, Sam Howell was just traded to the Seahawks.
Did we get any confirmations?
Meanwhile, Sam Howell was just traded to the Seahawks.
I'd imagine if a deal was agreed to it'd be a preliminary handshake type of deal and we wouldn't hear about it until Pats are on the clock in t-42days.
The only thing that matters is that they're trying.
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Worried we’ll be hearing of next year’s first rounder, this year’s remaining second rounder plus more being traded away to move up.
I hope all this chatter is BS.
I can’t understand how Mara would even consider letting Schoen trade away next years first after he spent all that money on Daniel jones after 5 years of tape and then the next season is done with him after 5 games. He obviously doesn’t have any eye for qb play.
It seems like the Giants are the new knicks and Mara is becoming the new James Dolan.
However, it’s hard to see James Dolan entertaining trading away next years first when we are likely favorite for first pick in the draft next year.
Maybe it wasn't Schoen who wanted Jones at all. It was Mara.
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In comment 16431804 Trainmaster said:
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Worried we’ll be hearing of next year’s first rounder, this year’s remaining second rounder plus more being traded away to move up.
I hope all this chatter is BS.
I can’t understand how Mara would even consider letting Schoen trade away next years first after he spent all that money on Daniel jones after 5 years of tape and then the next season is done with him after 5 games. He obviously doesn’t have any eye for qb play.
It seems like the Giants are the new knicks and Mara is becoming the new James Dolan.
However, it’s hard to see James Dolan entertaining trading away next years first when we are likely favorite for first pick in the draft next year.
Not if Mara's opining influenced that decision. Then he realized it after this year and is letting Schoen and Co do what they want without influence of the owner.
THIS. "Buyer's remorse" seems to suggest whoever opened their checkbook.
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like this happens until right before the draft or on draft night. Just too much uncertainty as to who Washington will take, and what's the benefit for NE of doing it now rather than waiting and squeezing the Giants as much as possible?
Plus for the Giants, don't they want to see who Washington takes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if it happened now, just seems unlikely.
If they have Maye and JJ as their list then #3 guarantees them of getting one of these two and likely having the choice between them. They aren't going to #1 or #2 in their minds, so why leave #3 open for some other team to outbid them at the last minute
Yup.
A: Yeah, that's interesting, because we were actually, when that happened from six to three, we were actually doing a private workout with (Bills quarterback) Josh Allen. Like, literally there in Laramie, Wyoming, Josh is throwing, and Indianapolis traded that pick, and they were three. Again, you don't know what other teams think of the players or who they're going to get. Obviously, there was some inclination that the Jets were going up to get a quarterback at three. So, I think at that position, and I said it last year, it's a different stratosphere. You've got to get around these kids and you've got to get to know them. Until you're able to do that, it's hard to make those type of moves. So, we were still going through our process at the time in Buffalo to get around those prospects. Then once we were comfortable, that's when you make that type of move.
So, again, this is the start. There's a lot of these prospects that it's the first time we're going to get around them, and we're looking forward to it. Free agency will set the table for some of the decisions we make in the Draft. It's an exciting time for us.
Q: You wouldn't make, generally speaking, that kind of move for just one guy, right? Because you don't know what the teams in front of you are doing.
A: That'd be hard to do until you're on the clock. That's a different occasion. I know the Panthers did it last year, and they did it, like, I think the date was March 10. They traded up to one. So, whatever exposure they had to (Panthers quarterback) Bryce Young or (Texans quarterback) C.J. Stroud, whoever their guy was, must have been good enough that they said, 'We got our guy.' And I think that's important, because then if you get around them or you find information out that maybe you're not excited about, you just traded a lot of draft capital to go up to get somebody that now you're uneasy about. So, I think you've got to be comfortable with the film, you've got to be comfortable with who the player is, what the setup is going to be for that player to have success, before you do something like that.
If they only want one guy, the trade happens on the clock if he is there
If they trade up before the draft to 3, its because they are comfortable with more than 1 guy
Yes and I'd imagine it's dependent on what happens from both team's perspective preferences. If reports are true that pick 3 is for sale of Jayden Daniels isn't there, then the Pats go through with the prearranged handshake agreement. If there is an agreement in place, it's probably because both teams would only do the trade if Daniels isn't available (i.e. nyg want Maye not Daniels and NE wants Daniels not Maye). I don't see us trading up to 3 I'd we have equal grades on Maye and JJM, and in that case it would make more sense to trade with AZ or the LAC. Only reason you jump to 3 is for one guy if he's there imo. I predict if Daniels isn't there at 3 then the Pats trade down with us. They would them probably be eyeing JJM, Nix or one of the receivers.
Agreed and I don't think this point is being talked about enough. If NE, AZ and/or LAC want one of the top 3 receivers, they very well may not get them at 11 or 12 because one or both of the other two teams would be ahead of them, as would the Giants, the Jets and Chicago (all candidates to take receivers). This does not even consider. WR needy team like Jacksonville or Pittsburgh trading up with someone like Atlanta or Tennessee to draft a WR. The only time teams have recently come from as far back as Denver and Minnesota to trade up were in 2016, when Philly traded up from 13 to 8 and then 8 to 2, and 2021, when SF traded up from 12 to 3 with Miami where Miami also had 6 overall.
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This makes the most sense and Schoen has alluded to have some handshake / prearranged deals.
Yes and I'd imagine it's dependent on what happens from both team's perspective preferences. If reports are true that pick 3 is for sale of Jayden Daniels isn't there, then the Pats go through with the prearranged handshake agreement. If there is an agreement in place, it's probably because both teams would only do the trade if Daniels isn't available (i.e. nyg want Maye not Daniels and NE wants Daniels not Maye). I don't see us trading up to 3 I'd we have equal grades on Maye and JJM, and in that case it would make more sense to trade with AZ or the LAC. Only reason you jump to 3 is for one guy if he's there imo. I predict if Daniels isn't there at 3 then the Pats trade down with us. They would them probably be eyeing JJM, Nix or one of the receivers.
This makes good sense. Maye is the target. McCarthy is QB3 on NYG board. Plan A. Trade up for Maye. Plan B. Trade to 4 or 5 for McCarthy or stay at 6, draft JJM or a WR.
So if the Giants have a conviction that one of these dudes is an elite QB, you're fine not giving up future capital? I really don't get this type of thinking. Either it boils down to a few things...1) you're completely risk averse, 2) you always think there's something better down the road, or 3) you're a fan of Jones & inexplicably think he can one day be elite.
Yes, there's a chance the Giants move up, draft a QB, & he's a bust. There are no guarantees. But I'm sick of this mindset from some here that trading up & taking a QB is a fools errand. You know what's stupid? Thinking in 2024 that Jones can ever become an elite QB. That ship has sailed. Time to move on. Swing for the fences with a new QB.
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I do not want to give up any 2025 capital
So if the Giants have a conviction that one of these dudes is an elite QB, you're fine not giving up future capital? I really don't get this type of thinking. Either it boils down to a few things...1) you're completely risk averse, 2) you always think there's something better down the road, or 3) you're a fan of Jones & inexplicably think he can one day be elite.
Yes, there's a chance the Giants move up, draft a QB, & he's a bust. There are no guarantees. But I'm sick of this mindset from some here that trading up & taking a QB is a fools errand. You know what's stupid? Thinking in 2024 that Jones can ever become an elite QB. That ship has sailed. Time to move on. Swing for the fences with a new QB.
SF I'm surprised you didn't bring out the old "and I want to sleep with Margot Robbie", you're slipping man :)
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I do not want to give up any 2025 capital
So if the Giants have a conviction that one of these dudes is an elite QB, you're fine not giving up future capital? I really don't get this type of thinking. Either it boils down to a few things...1) you're completely risk averse, 2) you always think there's something better down the road, or 3) you're a fan of Jones & inexplicably think he can one day be elite.
Yes, there's a chance the Giants move up, draft a QB, & he's a bust. There are no guarantees. But I'm sick of this mindset from some here that trading up & taking a QB is a fools errand. You know what's stupid? Thinking in 2024 that Jones can ever become an elite QB. That ship has sailed. Time to move on. Swing for the fences with a new QB.
The Sure Thing Draft Society is as dull-witted as the DJFC.
Schoen has three key assignments in his job right now: find the QB, significantly increase his hit rate on draft/FA personnel and identify and fix mistakes quicker.
If they only want one guy, the trade happens on the clock if he is there
If they trade up before the draft to 3, its because they are comfortable with more than 1 guy
This. My guess is they are fine with any of Daniels, Maye or McCarthy.
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This makes the most sense and Schoen has alluded to have some handshake / prearranged deals.
Yes and I'd imagine it's dependent on what happens from both team's perspective preferences. If reports are true that pick 3 is for sale of Jayden Daniels isn't there, then the Pats go through with the prearranged handshake agreement. If there is an agreement in place, it's probably because both teams would only do the trade if Daniels isn't available (i.e. nyg want Maye not Daniels and NE wants Daniels not Maye). I don't see us trading up to 3 I'd we have equal grades on Maye and JJM, and in that case it would make more sense to trade with AZ or the LAC. Only reason you jump to 3 is for one guy if he's there imo. I predict if Daniels isn't there at 3 then the Pats trade down with us. They would them probably be eyeing JJM, Nix or one of the receivers.
Agreed, but the Chargers at 5 gum up the works. IF the Giants were picking 5th instead of 6th, this would be a lot easier.
P.S. Thanks a lot Tommy Cutlets...
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In comment 16432021 George from PA said:
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I do not want to give up any 2025 capital
So if the Giants have a conviction that one of these dudes is an elite QB, you're fine not giving up future capital? I really don't get this type of thinking. Either it boils down to a few things...1) you're completely risk averse, 2) you always think there's something better down the road, or 3) you're a fan of Jones & inexplicably think he can one day be elite.
Yes, there's a chance the Giants move up, draft a QB, & he's a bust. There are no guarantees. But I'm sick of this mindset from some here that trading up & taking a QB is a fools errand. You know what's stupid? Thinking in 2024 that Jones can ever become an elite QB. That ship has sailed. Time to move on. Swing for the fences with a new QB.
The Sure Thing Draft Society is as dull-witted as the DJFC.
Schoen has three key assignments in his job right now: find the QB, significantly increase his hit rate on draft/FA personnel and identify and fix mistakes quicker.
I think there is something to this view.
Schoen is embarrassed and mad he totally missed it with Daniel Jones (or listened too much to others in the building) and now it is on him. And he has to rectify the mistake asap otherwise he could be finished in the NFL.
The Sure Thing Draft Society is as dull-witted as the DJFC.
Schoen has three key assignments in his job right now: find the QB, significantly increase his hit rate on draft/FA personnel and identify and fix mistakes quicker.
I think there is something to this view.
Schoen is embarrassed and mad he totally missed it with Daniel Jones (or listened too much to others in the building) and now it is on him. And he has to rectify the mistake asap otherwise he could be finished in the NFL.
Whoever you believe is responsible for the Jones contract disaster, the problem needs to be fixed yesterday.
If there is a hot seat at 1925 Giants Way, Schoen should be in it.
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The Sure Thing Draft Society is as dull-witted as the DJFC.
Schoen has three key assignments in his job right now: find the QB, significantly increase his hit rate on draft/FA personnel and identify and fix mistakes quicker.
I think there is something to this view.
Schoen is embarrassed and mad he totally missed it with Daniel Jones (or listened too much to others in the building) and now it is on him. And he has to rectify the mistake asap otherwise he could be finished in the NFL.
Whoever you believe is responsible for the Jones contract disaster, the problem needs to be fixed yesterday.
If there is a hot seat at 1925 Giants Way, Schoen should be in it.
Yes. Oddly I think he may be the smartest in the building and yet he got sucked into the abyss.
What a hole he dug for himself. I wish him well.
Hopefully John saw the light with Jones' terrible play this season & gave Schoen & Dabs the green light to move on.
Hopefully John saw the light with Jones' terrible play this season & gave Schoen & Dabs the green light to move on.
Agreed
Hopefully John saw the light with Jones' terrible play this season & gave Schoen & Dabs the green light to move on.
Yes Maras massive Mancrush on DJ made him a very wealthy man. All the moves made this offseason make it seem like Mara realized his mistake and gave Schoen the green light to take this rebuild to the next level. Examples of this: deeply scouting qb prospects, bringing Lock in telling him he has a chance to start here, interest in Fields, letting Barkley go, trading for Burns with the biggest cap hits on his monster contract in the years DJ would be gone, etc.
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In comment 16431959 Trainmaster said:
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This makes the most sense and Schoen has alluded to have some handshake / prearranged deals.
Yes and I'd imagine it's dependent on what happens from both team's perspective preferences. If reports are true that pick 3 is for sale of Jayden Daniels isn't there, then the Pats go through with the prearranged handshake agreement. If there is an agreement in place, it's probably because both teams would only do the trade if Daniels isn't available (i.e. nyg want Maye not Daniels and NE wants Daniels not Maye). I don't see us trading up to 3 I'd we have equal grades on Maye and JJM, and in that case it would make more sense to trade with AZ or the LAC. Only reason you jump to 3 is for one guy if he's there imo. I predict if Daniels isn't there at 3 then the Pats trade down with us. They would them probably be eyeing JJM, Nix or one of the receivers.
Agreed, but the Chargers at 5 gum up the works. IF the Giants were picking 5th instead of 6th, this would be a lot easier.
P.S. Thanks a lot Tommy Cutlets...
This narrative is so silly, it ignores the fact we lost 3 games we should have won against the Jets, Bills and Rams...I was rooting for losses too, but enough already. We could have been 9-8 easier than we could have been 3-14...
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In comment 16432088 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16431959 Trainmaster said:
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This makes the most sense and Schoen has alluded to have some handshake / prearranged deals.
Yes and I'd imagine it's dependent on what happens from both team's perspective preferences. If reports are true that pick 3 is for sale of Jayden Daniels isn't there, then the Pats go through with the prearranged handshake agreement. If there is an agreement in place, it's probably because both teams would only do the trade if Daniels isn't available (i.e. nyg want Maye not Daniels and NE wants Daniels not Maye). I don't see us trading up to 3 I'd we have equal grades on Maye and JJM, and in that case it would make more sense to trade with AZ or the LAC. Only reason you jump to 3 is for one guy if he's there imo. I predict if Daniels isn't there at 3 then the Pats trade down with us. They would them probably be eyeing JJM, Nix or one of the receivers.
Agreed, but the Chargers at 5 gum up the works. IF the Giants were picking 5th instead of 6th, this would be a lot easier.
P.S. Thanks a lot Tommy Cutlets...
This narrative is so silly, it ignores the fact we lost 3 games we should have won against the Jets, Bills and Rams...I was rooting for losses too, but enough already. We could have been 9-8 easier than we could have been 3-14...
Thank you for pointing this out! I just had this convo with my son. We could have been 9-8 if 4 or 5 plays went the other way, possibly making the playoffs.
I really thing Schoen and Daboll present NYG with the right vision and mindset and we need to allow them to build this team with their QB and vision.
They made chicken soup out of chicken shit in 2022. Nobody saw that coming.
In 2023, they get a tough schedule, a bunch of injuries, a coaching strife, win 3 games with an undrafted QB, 3 kickers, 18 different OL combinations and were 5 plays from being a winning team. Fans sometimes don’t know what they are looking at and why a team isn’t winning or can’t see positives in the midst of losing.
Hopefully John saw the light with Jones' terrible play this season & gave Schoen & Dabs the green light to move on.
I am in this boat. I picture Mara mandating to Schoen “Ok I want you to try to make it work with Daniel but if it doesn’t pan out this year do whatever you want, but I want to give every opportunity to this kid since we screwed him up so much.” I think the same edicts were hoisted onto Reese and Gettleman to make it work with latter stage Eli too.
Jones falls flat in 2023, Giants suck. Mara finally relents against all natural tendencies and let’s Schoen build it his way. I am convinced some internal battle was won by Schoen and Mara has finally handed over the keys.
Moreover, I do not believe Reese or Gettlemen ever wanted latter stage Eli.
Nor do I believe Schoen ever wanted Jones.
Only one person can ensure a player hangs around above and beyond the power of the GM… do the math. A sad sign of dysfunction for this team. I hope this reset signals that is over.
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I will forever believe that Joe had internal pressure-i.e., Mara, John-to lock up Jones. Mara loves Jones to an extent that I find incredibly odd since he isn't that good of a QB & really has done nothing here, absent that WC win vs. a Vikes defense that 'superstar' QBs like Mac Jones carved up in '22. John must like him personally or whatever.
Hopefully John saw the light with Jones' terrible play this season & gave Schoen & Dabs the green light to move on.
I am in this boat. I picture Mara mandating to Schoen “Ok I want you to try to make it work with Daniel but if it doesn’t pan out this year do whatever you want, but I want to give every opportunity to this kid since we screwed him up so much.” I think the same edicts were hoisted onto Reese and Gettleman to make it work with latter stage Eli too.
Jones falls flat in 2023, Giants suck. Mara finally relents against all natural tendencies and let’s Schoen build it his way. I am convinced some internal battle was won by Schoen and Mara has finally handed over the keys.
Moreover, I do not believe Reese or Gettlemen ever wanted latter stage Eli.
Nor do I believe Schoen ever wanted Jones.
Only one person can ensure a player hangs around above and beyond the power of the GM… do the math. A sad sign of dysfunction for this team. I hope this reset signals that is over.
I fully agree with everything you just said GiantTuff1.
I've worked with enough family businesses to have experienced the kind of direct or indirect pressure a family CEO can exert on a companies senior management.
I know an NFL team is not an apples to apples comparison to a private family owned business. Except in this one regard.
It has been my experience that it is IMPOSSIBLE for recently installed senior management to ignore a family CEO when it comes to keeping or letting go certain favored employees. No matter how much autonomy the new senior managers are promised when they're hired they will quickly find out who the protected employees are and there are always protected employees. It's the number one reason new senior management cycles through dysfunctional private businesses.
I don't remember which podcast it was that I was listening to about the trade for Brian Burns. There was a comment made that the Giants have liked Burns since before he was drafted and that they wanted to draft him with the #17 that turned into Dexter Lawrence but the Panthers took him at #16.
I found that to be an odd comment since the senior management and almost of all of their staff who drafted Dexter are gone. I took the comment that the Giants always liked him to mean the 3 Mara's were easy to get on board for the trade and more importantly the contract. When you evaluate the Giants hits and misses in free agency keep in mind that Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell have basically run the Giants pro scouting department.
The Giants co-family ownership has churned through 5 head coaches and 3 general mangers from 2012-2023.
This was from from the Giants website in the Gettleman years:
In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning.
This is on the Giants website now:
In his current role, McDonnell works closely with senior vice president and general manager Joe Schoen, and assistant general manager Brandon Brown in overseeing all aspects of the player personnel department.
The Giants have 6 directors on their board. The 3 Tisch siblings and 3 Mara's John, Susan and Chris, Susan (Mara) McDonnell is the 2nd oldest Mara sibling and the Giants have seeded their media friends that Tim McDonnell is in line to be the Giants next CEO when John decides to give it top.
I don't envy Joe Schoen his Director of Player Personnel, who according to the Giants org chart reports to him while overseeing all aspects of the player personnel department, is the son of one of the Giants six board of directors owners and next in line to be the CEO.
That's a lot of cooks in his kitchen. It's got to get tiring trying to build a group consensus and sell the co-owners on every move he wants to make. If you had to bet on whether Joe Schoen or Tim McDonnell will work for the Giants picking players 5 years from now who would you take? Is there another GM in the NFL that works with owners he reports to and owners who report to him? That's got to be very difficult pressure.
Before Joe Schoen was hired, during what I believe the last time John Mara did an end of the season press conference, he left us with one of his best quotes ever.
“All personnel decisions in this building, and this has always been the case, have been made by the general manager and the head coach.
“Chris is a very skilled evaluator, but he does not have any authority here other than the fact that I will go to him on occasion and ask him about players.
Mara also defended McDonnell, who began with the team as a pro scout seven years ago.
“Tim is probably the most respected guy we have in this building,” Mara said. “Coaches, front office staff, the general manager go to him and ask his advice on players because he is a good evaluator. He’s worked his way up from the bottom and he’s earned his stripes. He does not have any authority here.”
In my experience this is a classic example of a very rich family CEO who is never told no, is never not treated like royalty and inherited his massive wealth, saying how dare you peasants question me about my family.
If I read his quote correctly Chris Mara just inputs his draft grades and pro player evaluations into the Giants "system" except when John Mara asks him for his opinion on NFL and college players and the players on his team's roster.
Meanwhile his nephew Tim McDonnell, the director of player personnel, is the most respected by guy in the building but has no authority even though he's been in his job with 5 HCs and 3 GMs. Nothing to see here except the Giants record since Tim McDonnell joined the Giants front office.
I've worked with enough family businesses to have experienced the kind of direct or indirect pressure a family CEO can exert on a companies senior management.
I know an NFL team is not an apples to apples comparison to a private family owned business. Except in this one regard.
It has been my experience that it is IMPOSSIBLE for recently installed senior management to ignore a family CEO when it comes to keeping or letting go certain favored employees. No matter how much autonomy the new senior managers are promised when they're hired they will quickly find out who the protected employees are and there are always protected employees. It's the number one reason new senior management cycles through dysfunctional private businesses.
I don't remember which podcast it was that I was listening to about the trade for Brian Burns. There was a comment made that the Giants have liked Burns since before he was drafted and that they wanted to draft him with the #17 that turned into Dexter Lawrence but the Panthers took him at #16.
I found that to be an odd comment since the senior management and almost of all of their staff who drafted Dexter are gone. I took the comment that the Giants always liked him to mean the 3 Mara's were easy to get on board for the trade and more importantly the contract. When you evaluate the Giants hits and misses in free agency keep in mind that Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell have basically run the Giants pro scouting department.
The Giants co-family ownership has churned through 5 head coaches and 3 general mangers from 2012-2023.
This was from from the Giants website in the Gettleman years:
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Tim McDonnell is in his second year as the Giants' Director of Player Personnel, having previously serving as the Assistant Director of Player Personnel for two seasons. Prior to that, he spent six years as a Pro Scout for the Giants.
In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning.
This is on the Giants website now:
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Tim McDonnell is in his 11th season with the Giants and his third as the team's director of player personnel. He was the assistant director of player personnel in 2019-20 before assuming his current position in 2021. McDonnell joined the Giants in 2013 and spent his first six years with the organization as a pro scout.
In his current role, McDonnell works closely with senior vice president and general manager Joe Schoen, and assistant general manager Brandon Brown in overseeing all aspects of the player personnel department.
The Giants have 6 directors on their board. The 3 Tisch siblings and 3 Mara's John, Susan and Chris, Susan (Mara) McDonnell is the 2nd oldest Mara sibling and the Giants have seeded their media friends that Tim McDonnell is in line to be the Giants next CEO when John decides to give it top.
I don't envy Joe Schoen his Director of Player Personnel, who according to the Giants org chart reports to him while overseeing all aspects of the player personnel department, is the son of one of the Giants six board of directors owners and next in line to be the CEO.
That's a lot of cooks in his kitchen. It's got to get tiring trying to build a group consensus and sell the co-owners on every move he wants to make. If you had to bet on whether Joe Schoen or Tim McDonnell will work for the Giants picking players 5 years from now who would you take? Is there another GM in the NFL that works with owners he reports to and owners who report to him? That's got to be very difficult pressure.
Before Joe Schoen was hired, during what I believe the last time John Mara did an end of the season press conference, he left us with one of his best quotes ever.
Quote:
“That perception has been created by you [the media] and others and the reality is that in terms of my brother, my brother spends most of his time doing evaluation of college players. His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft,” Mara said.
“All personnel decisions in this building, and this has always been the case, have been made by the general manager and the head coach.
“Chris is a very skilled evaluator, but he does not have any authority here other than the fact that I will go to him on occasion and ask him about players.
Mara also defended McDonnell, who began with the team as a pro scout seven years ago.
“Tim is probably the most respected guy we have in this building,” Mara said. “Coaches, front office staff, the general manager go to him and ask his advice on players because he is a good evaluator. He’s worked his way up from the bottom and he’s earned his stripes. He does not have any authority here.”
In my experience this is a classic example of a very rich family CEO who is never told no, is never not treated like royalty and inherited his massive wealth, saying how dare you peasants question me about my family.
If I read his quote correctly Chris Mara just inputs his draft grades and pro player evaluations into the Giants "system" except when John Mara asks him for his opinion on NFL and college players and the players on his team's roster.
Meanwhile his nephew Tim McDonnell, the director of player personnel, is the most respected by guy in the building but has no authority even though he's been in his job with 5 HCs and 3 GMs. Nothing to see here except the Giants record since Tim McDonnell joined the Giants front office.
This.
I don't think people realize the variety of ways in which the Maras wield authority in the building. When it comes to John Mara exerting his influence, it seems that some fans (and most of Giants state media when they're feeling combative) think that's as simple as suggesting that John Mara is explicitly telling Schoen who to sign/not sign, who to draft, etc.
That's not it and it wouldn't be necessary anyway. Schoen reports to an owner, he has a future owner (and his future boss if he's lucky enough to not get scapegoated first) reporting to him, and another owner who just kind of putzes around the office scouting players and inputting player grades (although I sincerely hope the "system" they let Chris use is the equivalent of Creed's blog from The Office).
I got into it with Carl Banks on Twitter the other day and he was defending Tim, of course. I asked if he thought Tim could be fired for poor performance, should it ever come to that. His only response was that if Tim wasn't great at his job, why did Schoen promote him?
It's a lost cause unless the Tisch family wrests the Maras' toy away from them.