John Schneider "NYG sold Lock on opportunity to be starter"

In comment 16432647 Go Terps said:

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In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Again, not saying this is inaccurate. But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth. Why would they still like Jones?

Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do

Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.

In comment 16432561 crooza172 said:

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The most underwhelming giants offense since I’ve been alive. And it’s been pretty damn bad for the last decade.

You must be awfully young then

In comment 16432650 cosmicj said:

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Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.

There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition?

Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter.

I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut.

If Jones is not ready Week 1, which more than a few people are speculating, then Drew Lock has a shot to be the starting QB. He has almost no shot of starting for the Seahawks. This is a common sense conclusion any reasonable person could deduce based on public information.

Schoen is making sure the team has options at QB, which is exactly what they did by paying Tyrod Taylor for 2 years. After the 2021 season fiasco with Glennon and Fromm, I don't think the Giants FO will ever leave Dabs with that kind of choice.

and assuming next year they will be no worse, their draft status next year and the year after will be worse than this year. It's for this reason that I think they'll take advantage of this year's draft position and attempt to trade up to grab a QB - despite the need for a #1 receiver.

and the draft will help clear this up. Good chance Jones is cut if they draft a QB high imv.

Jones is not going to be stashed for the entire season if healthy. Schoen is not going to threaten Jones that he will stash him unless he changes the terms of his contract (injury clause). PUP/IR could be in play if there is some type of setback.

In comment 16432683 armstead98 said:

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In comment 16432650 cosmicj said: Quote: Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity. There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition? Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter. I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut.

This is goalpost moving. Tyrod was brought in as a back up, as was publicly declared. Now Lock is told he’ll have a chance to win the starting job. And do you think that Russell Wilson is speaking to any team about a backup role?

LOS, what compensation do you believe a healthy Jones would draw in the trade market?

Remember, the Giants would almost certainly be paying all but the veteran minimum in this the 2nd year of the deal.

In comment 16432743 cosmicj said:

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In comment 16432683 armstead98 said: Quote: In comment 16432650 cosmicj said: Quote: Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity. There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition? Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter. I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut. This is goalpost moving. Tyrod was brought in as a back up, as was publicly declared. Now Lock is told he’ll have a chance to win the starting job. And do you think that Russell Wilson is speaking to any team about a backup role?

If he has a chance to compete for a starting job due to an injury then yes.

So you’re saying jones is definitely going to be cut and/or never play another down again?

That might be the case but I don’t think it’s as sure of a thing as you make it out. If healthy I expect him to have a chance to compete, it just won’t be handed to him.

I read on here that it was only a one-year deal.

Where did I write that? A franchise QB is not competing for his job. What happens if Mahomes struggles in camp next August? (This would be odd. Mahomes has repeatedly been phenomenal in camp.) The coaches and he will work on some things, not bench him.

Giants want a new QB and move on from DJ. Regardless of whether they see Lock as backup or potential starter, why wouldn't they tell him they'll give him the opportunity to beat out Jones? They aren't sold on DJ, who likely starts camp on PUP, giving the backup vet a lot of opportunity to show well.

It's a topic very likely discussed in Lock/Giants talks, as well it should be. This sort of thing usually doesn't go public, but the Giants QB situation is a hot topic this year, so either lips were a little looser, or the media is more eager to report on it.

In comment 16432640 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Again, not saying this is inaccurate. But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth. You realize Lock told this to Schneider right? Why would he lie?

The cats out of the bag. They are out on Jones and the Russell Wilson visit was the final tell.

Enough with the leaks and bs. The entire league knows the Giants want/ need a quarterback.

In comment 16432778 nygiantfan said:

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I read on here that it was only a one-year deal.

LOL. You're right! All this hand wringing over nothing.

So, the Giants are dragging Jones through the mud with "leaks" for the benefit of the draft? I doubt it.

signed him to BE the starter. At least for the first 3 or 4 games, as the rookie QB gets acclimated. If Jones is not your long term answer at QB, you CAN NOT PLAY HIM with that injury guarantee.

In comment 16432649 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16432647 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Again, not saying this is inaccurate. But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth. Why would they still like Jones? Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do

I'm fairly certain the news could break that Jones has been released and Ryan would come post "maybe they're lying"

you would have to define the time of the trade. The more Jones plays and plays well would impact the trade market.

If he is cleared prior to camp I think very unlikely a trade can be made before the season.

in camp to become the starter. IMO, Jones will win that competition. I do believe that the Giants will draft a QB too, as the situation presents itself. If the Giants don’t draft a QB, how does this play out next year? Lock is on a 1 year deal and unless Jones lights it up, he’s potentially gone too! That all tells me that they will most likely be looking to draft a QB this year. Someone that could take the reigns next year.

In comment 16432810 Sean said:

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So, the Giants are dragging Jones through the mud with "leaks" for the benefit of the draft? I doubt it.

Yes, the Giants (and now the Seahawks), have orchestrated a massive disinformation campaign to ensure a player who will almost certainly be available at six, will still be available at six.

In comment 16432561 crooza172 said:

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The most underwhelming giants offense since I’ve been alive. And it’s been pretty damn bad for the last decade.

Having survived the 70s, I've seen worse.

In comment 16432509 christian said:

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The Giants probably aren't going to stash Jones when the season starts. They'll simply cut him when he can pass a physical, because that's the gracious thing to do. If Schoen was ruthless, he would leave the possibility of stashing him on the table. And Team Jones would know one way to increase the odds of Jones getting traded, is for him to restructure his contract and remove the 2025 injury guarantee. That is the real barrier to him getting traded.

If Team DJ wants to play hardball, the play hardball with him. He has been paid EXCEPTIONALLY well under the circumstances.

In comment 16432787 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 16432640 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Again, not saying this is inaccurate. But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth. You realize Lock told this to Schneider right? Why would he lie? The cats out of the bag. They are out on Jones and the Russell Wilson visit was the final tell. Enough with the leaks and bs. The entire league knows the Giants want/ need a quarterback.

+1

Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Couple things circling back on this: a promise of a path to become QB1 was not made to Drew Lock during his negotiation, according to an individual familiar with the #NYGiants process. Why Schneider relayed this, and on a radio show, is anybody's guess. I'm told what he said is not accurate. "BS" is how one source put it.
Does sound like SEA wanted Lock back and missed out.

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a competition? Jones has never really "made it", and is coming off a string of injuries now. Jones should expect competition frankly.

In comment 16432637 Go Terps said:

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In comment 16432561 crooza172 said: Quote: The most underwhelming giants offense since I’ve been alive. And it’s been pretty damn bad for the last decade. I'm actually excited to watch an offense that isn't pretending Jones is a good QB and Barkley is a difference maker.

Giants scored 3 more PPG when BArkley played. One of the most well run NFL teams just gave Barkley a shit load of money. They just gave a RB with 6 years NFL experience a shit load of money. A RB.

HE's a difference maker. DJ is another story but you're being weird with Barkley.

In comment 16432280 Chris684 said:

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In comment 16432264 Sean said: Quote: We can end this charade of Jones being the penciled in starter. If I had to guess today on 03/14 which is subject to change what the week 1 QB depth chart is: Lock Maye UDFA Jones (PUP) Sean I agree with your premise. However, I think Schoen’s job of threading the needle on this seems to be getting harder with the reports of Denver and Minny itching to come up for JJ. If the top 3 turn out to be impenetrable and Minnesota or Denver do something crazy to outbid us for the 4 or 5 slots, we could be left standing when the music stops. Today’s rumors have made me realize how if I’m Schoen it’s Poles I’m talking to right now. It will cost more to go to 1 but not exponentially more and then you get the pick of them all.

They can have JJ McCarthy.

In comment 16432899 ajr2456 said:

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So you're going to believe one rumor over the other. Just say that.

In comment 16433000 djm said:

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In comment 16432899 ajr2456 said: Quote: . So you're going to believe one rumor over the other. Just say that.

There’s a better chance of the Giants lying to cover it up, than it is Schneider lying. What motivation does he have to lie? He’s not trying to comfort the fan base about losing Drew Lock.

Between Art Stapleton's report and the fact the Seahawks clearly were working on a trade for Howell as we were signing Lock, the likelihood is Lock knew he'd be 3rd string with his roster spot at risk.

Hence coming here where competition was thin and Jones injury guarantee may motivate the Giants to leave him on the bench all season.

The sports world hasn't had this much excitement since Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan went at in the Olympics.

In comment 16432833 56goat said:

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If Schoen was ruthless, he would leave the possibility of stashing him on the table. And Team Jones would know one way to increase the odds of Jones getting traded, is for him to restructure his contract and remove the 2025 injury guarantee. That is the real barrier to him getting traded. If Team DJ wants to play hardball, the play hardball with him. He has been paid EXCEPTIONALLY well under the circumstances.

If the Giants are done with him, Team Jones knows they're losing that injury guarantee one way or another (either when he's cut or if he volunteers to remove it).

So they have a choice:

1) Work with the Giants to help facilitate a trade, meanwhile Jones still has access to the Giants medical and training facilities and staff, and can potentially showcase his recovery in a controlled environment during practice

2) Force the Giants to cut him, not have access to the Giants facilities and staff, and hope gets an opportunity to showcase his recovery in a workout

Practically, the best outcome for both parties is to come to terms that he won't be playing another down for the Giants, and work together to facilitate a trade.

and with Geno signed + healthy Lock had less of a path to starting there.

when the Lock signing came out my first reaction was that it increased the possibility of jones not being on the 2024 roster by a lot. I still believe that but I dont think the NYG plans at QB are going to be communicated a month+ ahead of the draft to a free agent on a small potatoes contract. if they dont get a QB in the draft i dont think they are moving on from jones so there are unknowns out there way bigger decisions than drew lock.

even if the nyg kept jones AND drafted a QB in the first round, Lock is still probably the odds on week 1 starter because he's healthy and not a rookie. i think that is the opportunity he didnt have in SEA that he signed for because expecting more than that would be stupid (esp if they draft a rookie high).

In comment 16432783 cosmicj said:

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Where did I write that? A franchise QB is not competing for his job. What happens if Mahomes struggles in camp next August? (This would be odd. Mahomes has repeatedly been phenomenal in camp.) The coaches and he will work on some things, not bench him.

You said, “ Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.”

What do you mean by move on? If it’s that he’s going to be on the team and compete for a job like everybody else then I agree. If it’s more than that, still possible but I wouldn’t say it’s unambiguous.

In comment 16433094 Eric on Li said:

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I still believe that but I dont think the NYG plans at QB are going to be communicated a month+ ahead of the draft to a free agent on a small potatoes contract.

I agree. This move doesn't indicate anything other than the Giants need a veteran backup whether Jones is/is not in the roster.

Does anyone honestly think the Giants told Lock you have NO chance to start here in 2024? And he still came here anyway, 4000 miles across the country on a one year bare minimum deal despite Seattle supposedly showing interest in keeping him?

Of course there's a chance to start. The incumbent is injured and coming off a bad 6 games. Conversely, does anyone really think NYG indicated in any shape that Lock is the unquestioned starter for 2024? Cmon people.

MEANS NOTHING in regards to Jones or the draft. Zilch. It's fucking Drew Lock we're talking about.

offseason

In comment 16433134 djm said:

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MEANS NOTHING in regards to Jones or the draft. Zilch. It's fucking Drew Lock we're talking about.

Same with the Vikings and the Vikings signed Darnold for double what we signed Lock for.

In comment 16433127 christian said:

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In comment 16433094 Eric on Li said: Quote: I still believe that but I dont think the NYG plans at QB are going to be communicated a month+ ahead of the draft to a free agent on a small potatoes contract. I agree. This move doesn't indicate anything other than the Giants need a veteran backup whether Jones is/is not in the roster.

agreed, the only thing that was unexpected about it is that lock is more of an upside play vs. a typical career backup. trubisky was out there if tyrod was too expensive and he has experience in the system. flacco. guys like that who are better for the veteran backup role.

lock is more boom/bust which is interesting.

Lock's chances of starting here are higher than in Seattle, but still low.

Looks like this has been debunked based on Lock's presser that is going on right now.

It was conveyed to him that Daniel Jones is the starter and he can expect a lot of camp reps while he recovers. Says he doesn’t know where this other stuff came from.

In comment 16432650 cosmicj said:

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Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.

You realize that if they could have signed Wilson it would have been for the vet minimum, less than they paid Taylor the last two years. The Giants couldn't have dreamed of a better QB situation for 2024.

What that said to me is it's evidence they know getting one of the top QBs is not happening.

In comment 16433191 BrettNYG10 said:

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Lock's chances of starting here are higher than in Seattle, but still low.

to start the season i think they are pretty high.

jones would have to play about a month ahead of kyler did last year (i think) and any rookie even in the first is 50/50.

and i kind of think he's competing with 1 or the other but not both. a 5m 3rd QB would be abnormal.

This. Surely there's no vested interest by a party to deny this.

In comment 16432879 Eric from BBI said:

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Art Stapleton @art_stapleton Couple things circling back on this: a promise of a path to become QB1 was not made to Drew Lock during his negotiation, according to an individual familiar with the #NYGiants process. Why Schneider relayed this, and on a radio show, is anybody's guess. I'm told what he said is not accurate. "BS" is how one source put it. Does sound like SEA wanted Lock back and missed out.

All these conspiracies and planted lies theories are mind boggling to me. I know there is a lot of misdirection during draft season, but some of this stuff is hard to digest. I still believe that JS and BD like DJ. When JS keeps saying DJ is the starter, I believe him. Barring injury of course. JS also stated that he was looking for a back-up FA or in the draft. LOCK IS THE BACK-UP. I don't see moving up and I don't see QB at 6. However, It's just MO like everyone else on this board.

In comment 16432649 ajr2456 said:

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Why would they still like Jones? Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do

Just as your begging for it to be true that they don't, except he has the fact that they gave him a contract with $82M as evidence, whereas you're just following the hot air like a cat follows a laser pointer.