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| Seahawks GM John Schneider said on Seattle radio show @WymanAndBob that he wanted to keep Drew Lock, but the Giants “basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter.” Schneider said that Lock views this situation with the Giants as possibly being similar to Baker Mayfield in Tampa last year. |
Lock
Maye
UDFA
Jones (PUP)
Exactly. Nor should he. It would be gross negligence to let Jones on a field with a NY Giants helmet. He needs to be cut after passing a physical and go somewhere else.
Honestly if we're stuck with him because of the cap, it would make sense to basically freeze him for a year like the Texans did with Watson.
But I doubt the Maras would allow the Giants to operate that way. If Jones can play, he'll start.
... that being said, that's *if*.
Lock
Maye
UDFA
Jones (PUP)
Sean I agree with your premise. However, I think Schoen’s job of threading the needle on this seems to be getting harder with the reports of Denver and Minny itching to come up for JJ.
If the top 3 turn out to be impenetrable and Minnesota or Denver do something crazy to outbid us for the 4 or 5 slots, we could be left standing when the music stops.
Today’s rumors have made me realize how if I’m Schoen it’s Poles I’m talking to right now. It will cost more to go to 1 but not exponentially more and then you get the pick of them all.
They might as well take walk-ons this summer if they don’t draft a QB.
We have absolutely no idea if it'd be a top 10 pick. The Cardinals thought they were getting that this year from the Texans. They got the 26th pick.
They already are absorbing the $47M anyway. He's on the team for that cap number this year.
draft gets us a franchise QB.
His cap hit is already 47 million this year. No matter what (Barring us redoing his deal) if he's cut pre June 1st his cap hit for this year would be 69 million. If he's a post June 1st cut the 69 million in dead money would be spread over two years. So instead of 69 million at one time he would have 47 million in dead money in 2024 and 22 million in 2025. We would save 19.35 million in 2025 cap space.
Could he start the season if DJ is not ready health wise, sure. And if he plays like Mahomes those first few games then yeah anything is possible.
I get the 2 year out, but still. Jones' contract is such an albatross.
I get the 2 year out, but still. Jones' contract is such an albatross.
I think this is why Tua hasn't received an extension yet. Miami is probably looking at the Jones deal not wanting to make the same mistake.
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like to know how the Giants can absorb the $47M cap hit they'd incur by cutting Jones, but if they can, then I agree it's best for both sides if they do so as soon as he can pass a physical. Schoen did say that Jones would be the starter as soon as he was healthy, but that's pretty much what you'd expect him to say in response to that question. Schoen made a bad mistake signing Jones to that ridiculous contract. Let's hope that whatever he does in the draft gets us a franchise QB.
They already are absorbing the $47M anyway. He's on the team for that cap number this year.
You're right. That's true. It's already a sunk cost and accounted for on the cap.
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In comment 16432311 AcidTest said:
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like to know how the Giants can absorb the $47M cap hit they'd incur by cutting Jones, but if they can, then I agree it's best for both sides if they do so as soon as he can pass a physical. Schoen did say that Jones would be the starter as soon as he was healthy, but that's pretty much what you'd expect him to say in response to that question. Schoen made a bad mistake signing Jones to that ridiculous contract. Let's hope that whatever he does in the draft gets us a franchise QB.
They already are absorbing the $47M anyway. He's on the team for that cap number this year.
You're right. That's true. It's already a sunk cost and accounted for on the cap.
Mayfield didn't have to compete with a QB drafted at #6 (or #3 on a move-up). He had to compete with Kyle Trask.
As for Giants letting Jones go, if that happens, I think they will try very hard to get someone to take a portion of his cap hit.
going to be a first round pick. Kid has a gun for an arm. JS and Daboll had their choice of QB’s to grab. They must like something about Lock.
At least Sam Howell slung the rock to over 4000 yards last year. Lock has proven nothing. On 2 different teams.
@JordanRaanan
Seahawks GM John Schneider says QB Drew Lock left because the Giants sold it as an opportunity to compete to be their starter.
Schneider: "They basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter. And he felt like it was the right opportunity. He looked at Baker Mayfield’s opportunity last year and felt that this could be something similar."
via
@WymanAndBob
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
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27m
This is 100% accurate from Schneider, FYI. Had conversations about this exact topic with multiple league sources today #Giants
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Seahawks GM John Schneider said on Seattle radio show
@WymanAndBob
that he wanted to keep Drew Lock, but the Giants “basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter.” Schneider said that Lock views this situation with the Giants as possibly being similar to Baker Mayfield in Tampa last year.
@art_stapleton
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50m
Curious that Schneider would say this. Most GMs usually don't opine on other teams' business to justify why he lost a player, at least not publicly.
Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Can't imagine Giants are too pleased with him talking on their business on a radio show.
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
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57m
Replying to
@DDuggan21
and
@WymanAndBob
Bet the Giants wish they had squeezed Drew Lock into today’s zoom schedule rather than waiting until next week now.
@art_stapleton
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50m
Curious that Schneider would say this. Most GMs usually don't opine on other teams' business to justify why he lost a player, at least not publicly.
Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Can't imagine Giants are too pleased with him talking on their business on a radio show.
Payback for blocking Kafka?
Will Grier West Virginia 58 (Left) 59 (Right)
Brett Rypien Boise State 59 (Left) 56 (Right)
Clayton Thorson Northwestern 58 (Left) 56 (Right)
Nick Fitzgerald Mississippi State 57 (Left) 52 (Right)
Jordan Ta'amu Mississippi 56 (Left) 55 (Right)
Gardner Minshew Washington State 55 (Left) 53 (Right)
Ryan Finley North Carolina State 55 (Left) 52 (Right)
Tyree Jackson Buffalo 54 (Left) 54 (Right)
Daniel Jones Duke 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
Drew Lock Missouri 54 (Left) 53 (Right)
Easton Stick North Dakota State 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
Jake Browning Washington 54 (Left) 52 (Right)
Trace McSorley Penn State 53 (Left) 52 (Right)
Jarrett Stidham Auburn 53 (Left) 52 (Right)
Dwayne Haskins Ohio State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Kyle Shurmer Vanderbilt 52 (Left) 50 (Right)
And note Dwayne Haskins below Jones and Lock. Another guy who was supposed to have a strong arm, couldn't prove it ont the gun, and busted in the NFL.
QB arm strength can be very deceptive to the eye.
link - ( New Window )
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
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50m
Curious that Schneider would say this. Most GMs usually don't opine on other teams' business to justify why he lost a player, at least not publicly.
Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Can't imagine Giants are too pleased with him talking on their business on a radio show.
Payback for blocking Kafka?
And the Leonard Williams fleecing. Thanks for the extra second so we could snag Burns, John!
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
You’re right, this one is not really a leak. But it’s definitely getting out there now that the Giants told Lock he could compete to be a starter. Which is what they’d probably say to him if they wanted him to be a backup.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
What does lying about wanting a QB do for them? The top receivers (outside of MHJ) will be there for them at six regardless. So if everyone believes they want a qb and they don’t, what does that do for us? Increase the value of trading down?
I understand lying about not wanting a qb, because if you actually do maybe someone falls. But what’s the benefit of the opposite?
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
Its the latter
Don’t teams do this?
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It would be quite a story if Schneider was doing a solid for the team with this. That would be crazy.
You’re right, this one is not really a leak. But it’s definitely getting out there now that the Giants told Lock he could compete to be a starter. Which is what they’d probably say to him if they wanted him to be a backup.
I dont know, when they gave all that money to Tyrod, they were also very clear to say they were bringing him in as a backup.
Don’t teams do this?
He’s making generational wealth, why would he negotiate to take anything less? If he truly believes he’s worth it then he’ll prove it to some other team when his current absurd contract expires
Don’t teams do this?
His agent is going to demand Jones receive every dollar in the contract.
If Schoen was ruthless, he would leave the possibility of stashing him on the table. And Team Jones would know one way to increase the odds of Jones getting traded, is for him to restructure his contract and remove the 2025 injury guarantee.
That is the real barrier to him getting traded.
Yawn..
It would be dirty to bring in Lock in to compete with Jones, Fields and potentially a rookie QB.
I'm actually excited to watch an offense that isn't pretending Jones is a good QB and Barkley is a difference maker.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
You realize Lock told this to Schneider right? Why would he lie?
It would be dirty to bring in Lock in to compete with Jones, Fields and potentially a rookie QB.
The takeaway from all this noise is that there's a good chance DJ will be gracefully and respectfully released as soon as he can pass a physical after June 1st.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
Why would they still like Jones?
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Again, not saying this is inaccurate.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
Why would they still like Jones?
Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do
You must be awfully young then
There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition?
Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter.
I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut.
Schoen is making sure the team has options at QB, which is exactly what they did by paying Tyrod Taylor for 2 years. After the 2021 season fiasco with Glennon and Fromm, I don't think the Giants FO will ever leave Dabs with that kind of choice.
Jones is not going to be stashed for the entire season if healthy. Schoen is not going to threaten Jones that he will stash him unless he changes the terms of his contract (injury clause). PUP/IR could be in play if there is some type of setback.
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Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.
There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition?
Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter.
I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut.
This is goalpost moving. Tyrod was brought in as a back up, as was publicly declared. Now Lock is told he’ll have a chance to win the starting job. And do you think that Russell Wilson is speaking to any team about a backup role?
Remember, the Giants would almost certainly be paying all but the veteran minimum in this the 2nd year of the deal.
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In comment 16432650 cosmicj said:
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Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.
There still is ambiguity. Jones is hurt and even if he wasn’t, why wouldn’t the Giants at least make it an open competition?
Might Schoen have said something along the lines of… Daniel is going to start the season on PUP so you’re going to get the chance to come in and compete to start the season as a starter.
I know everyone wants DJ gone but you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s unambiguous that he’s getting cut.
This is goalpost moving. Tyrod was brought in as a back up, as was publicly declared. Now Lock is told he’ll have a chance to win the starting job. And do you think that Russell Wilson is speaking to any team about a backup role?
If he has a chance to compete for a starting job due to an injury then yes.
So you’re saying jones is definitely going to be cut and/or never play another down again?
That might be the case but I don’t think it’s as sure of a thing as you make it out. If healthy I expect him to have a chance to compete, it just won’t be handed to him.
It's a topic very likely discussed in Lock/Giants talks, as well it should be. This sort of thing usually doesn't go public, but the Giants QB situation is a hot topic this year, so either lips were a little looser, or the media is more eager to report on it.
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Again, not saying this is inaccurate.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
You realize Lock told this to Schneider right? Why would he lie?
The cats out of the bag. They are out on Jones and the Russell Wilson visit was the final tell.
Enough with the leaks and bs. The entire league knows the Giants want/ need a quarterback.
LOL. You're right! All this hand wringing over nothing.
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In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said:
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Again, not saying this is inaccurate.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
Why would they still like Jones?
Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do
I'm fairly certain the news could break that Jones has been released and Ryan would come post "maybe they're lying"
If he is cleared prior to camp I think very unlikely a trade can be made before the season.
Yes, the Giants (and now the Seahawks), have orchestrated a massive disinformation campaign to ensure a player who will almost certainly be available at six, will still be available at six.
Having survived the 70s, I've seen worse.
If Schoen was ruthless, he would leave the possibility of stashing him on the table. And Team Jones would know one way to increase the odds of Jones getting traded, is for him to restructure his contract and remove the 2025 injury guarantee.
That is the real barrier to him getting traded.
If Team DJ wants to play hardball, the play hardball with him. He has been paid EXCEPTIONALLY well under the circumstances.
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In comment 16432480 ryanmkeane said:
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Again, not saying this is inaccurate.
But all of these leaks about the Giants’ thoughts around QB seem to be intentional to me, whether it’s because they still like Jones or they actually are telling the truth.
You realize Lock told this to Schneider right? Why would he lie?
The cats out of the bag. They are out on Jones and the Russell Wilson visit was the final tell.
Enough with the leaks and bs. The entire league knows the Giants want/ need a quarterback.
+1
@art_stapleton
Couple things circling back on this: a promise of a path to become QB1 was not made to Drew Lock during his negotiation, according to an individual familiar with the #NYGiants process. Why Schneider relayed this, and on a radio show, is anybody's guess. I'm told what he said is not accurate. "BS" is how one source put it.
Does sound like SEA wanted Lock back and missed out.
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The most underwhelming giants offense since I’ve been alive. And it’s been pretty damn bad for the last decade.
I'm actually excited to watch an offense that isn't pretending Jones is a good QB and Barkley is a difference maker.
Giants scored 3 more PPG when BArkley played. One of the most well run NFL teams just gave Barkley a shit load of money. They just gave a RB with 6 years NFL experience a shit load of money. A RB.
HE's a difference maker. DJ is another story but you're being weird with Barkley.
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We can end this charade of Jones being the penciled in starter. If I had to guess today on 03/14 which is subject to change what the week 1 QB depth chart is:
Lock
Maye
UDFA
Jones (PUP)
Sean I agree with your premise. However, I think Schoen’s job of threading the needle on this seems to be getting harder with the reports of Denver and Minny itching to come up for JJ.
If the top 3 turn out to be impenetrable and Minnesota or Denver do something crazy to outbid us for the 4 or 5 slots, we could be left standing when the music stops.
Today’s rumors have made me realize how if I’m Schoen it’s Poles I’m talking to right now. It will cost more to go to 1 but not exponentially more and then you get the pick of them all.
They can have JJ McCarthy.
So you're going to believe one rumor over the other. Just say that.
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So you're going to believe one rumor over the other. Just say that.
There’s a better chance of the Giants lying to cover it up, than it is Schneider lying. What motivation does he have to lie? He’s not trying to comfort the fan base about losing Drew Lock.
Hence coming here where competition was thin and Jones injury guarantee may motivate the Giants to leave him on the bench all season.
That is the real barrier to him getting traded.
If Team DJ wants to play hardball, the play hardball with him. He has been paid EXCEPTIONALLY well under the circumstances.
If the Giants are done with him, Team Jones knows they're losing that injury guarantee one way or another (either when he's cut or if he volunteers to remove it).
So they have a choice:
1) Work with the Giants to help facilitate a trade, meanwhile Jones still has access to the Giants medical and training facilities and staff, and can potentially showcase his recovery in a controlled environment during practice
2) Force the Giants to cut him, not have access to the Giants facilities and staff, and hope gets an opportunity to showcase his recovery in a workout
Practically, the best outcome for both parties is to come to terms that he won't be playing another down for the Giants, and work together to facilitate a trade.
when the Lock signing came out my first reaction was that it increased the possibility of jones not being on the 2024 roster by a lot. I still believe that but I dont think the NYG plans at QB are going to be communicated a month+ ahead of the draft to a free agent on a small potatoes contract. if they dont get a QB in the draft i dont think they are moving on from jones so there are unknowns out there way bigger decisions than drew lock.
even if the nyg kept jones AND drafted a QB in the first round, Lock is still probably the odds on week 1 starter because he's healthy and not a rookie. i think that is the opportunity he didnt have in SEA that he signed for because expecting more than that would be stupid (esp if they draft a rookie high).
You said, “ Evidence that the Giants are moving on from Jones. QED. There’s no arguing anymore and little ambiguity.”
What do you mean by move on? If it’s that he’s going to be on the team and compete for a job like everybody else then I agree. If it’s more than that, still possible but I wouldn’t say it’s unambiguous.
I agree. This move doesn't indicate anything other than the Giants need a veteran backup whether Jones is/is not in the roster.
Of course there's a chance to start. The incumbent is injured and coming off a bad 6 games. Conversely, does anyone really think NYG indicated in any shape that Lock is the unquestioned starter for 2024? Cmon people.
Same with the Vikings and the Vikings signed Darnold for double what we signed Lock for.
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I still believe that but I dont think the NYG plans at QB are going to be communicated a month+ ahead of the draft to a free agent on a small potatoes contract.
I agree. This move doesn't indicate anything other than the Giants need a veteran backup whether Jones is/is not in the roster.
agreed, the only thing that was unexpected about it is that lock is more of an upside play vs. a typical career backup. trubisky was out there if tyrod was too expensive and he has experience in the system. flacco. guys like that who are better for the veteran backup role.
lock is more boom/bust which is interesting.
It was conveyed to him that Daniel Jones is the starter and he can expect a lot of camp reps while he recovers. Says he doesn’t know where this other stuff came from.
You realize that if they could have signed Wilson it would have been for the vet minimum, less than they paid Taylor the last two years. The Giants couldn't have dreamed of a better QB situation for 2024.
What that said to me is it's evidence they know getting one of the top QBs is not happening.
to start the season i think they are pretty high.
jones would have to play about a month ahead of kyler did last year (i think) and any rookie even in the first is 50/50.
and i kind of think he's competing with 1 or the other but not both. a 5m 3rd QB would be abnormal.
@art_stapleton
Couple things circling back on this: a promise of a path to become QB1 was not made to Drew Lock during his negotiation, according to an individual familiar with the #NYGiants process. Why Schneider relayed this, and on a radio show, is anybody's guess. I'm told what he said is not accurate. "BS" is how one source put it.
Does sound like SEA wanted Lock back and missed out.
All these conspiracies and planted lies theories are mind boggling to me. I know there is a lot of misdirection during draft season, but some of this stuff is hard to digest. I still believe that JS and BD like DJ. When JS keeps saying DJ is the starter, I believe him. Barring injury of course. JS also stated that he was looking for a back-up FA or in the draft. LOCK IS THE BACK-UP. I don't see moving up and I don't see QB at 6. However, It's just MO like everyone else on this board.
Why would they still like Jones?
Because he’s begging for it to be true that they do