very possibly.. However, I am starting to think that maybe they are looking to a team that is dumping their players (LAC)- JJ and two #1's for Herbert???
A guy can wish, right..
Unless you think that there is a dropoff after about pick 15 whereby 42 will get you someone identical why not wait until Draft Day to make this sort of deal? What if someone unexpected falls to 23?
Is the Giants 2025 first round pick must be considered the most valuable
man giving up #6 and potentially another top 10 pick next year would be too rich for my taste. We aren't better than Dallas or Philly right now. You would have to be nearly 100% sure that QB is going to be a stud to make that move.
The Giants still have more draft capital than Minnesota does
Unless you think that there is a dropoff after about pick 15 whereby 42 will get you someone identical why not wait until Draft Day to make this sort of deal? What if someone unexpected falls to 23?
At face value it seems weird but if they have 20 guys lumped together than it makes sense. They can also move back up, but have already secured that 2nd next year.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
Yup. They will likely offer #11, #23, and their #1 next year IMO to try and get ahead of the Giants. Let him to do so.
Their roster is hot garbage. I don’t like this strategy from Kwesi. Lot of Viking fans think he’s out of his head running a team and he’s struggled filling in roster talent the last year or two. Think they also have Hockenson hurt and gave him huge deal after surrendering bunch of picks.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
is a trade with the Giants. I'm not convinced that the Giants want McCarthy. They are still talent deficient in many areas. Get two good players at 11 and 23.
RE: The Giants still have more draft capital than Minnesota does
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
Our 1st and 2nd are worth a little more than 11 & 23 on the draft trade charts.
The irony is that the Vikings look to be running the Bills
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
A team has to want to drop to 11 for it to be more valuable
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
I disagree. The Giants will be pretty bad too plus 6 vs 11 is a big drop-off in this draft. Plus the Giants *have* more they could add in that Minnesota doesn't. Minnesota is out a 2nd and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. Doesn't mean the Giants should or will do it, but they could easily top Minnesota's best offer.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
Our 1st and 2nd are worth a little more than 11 & 23 on the draft trade charts.
I still think teams would rather have #11 and #23, but I am also thinking that Minnesota will include their #1 next year.
is a trade with the Giants. I'm not convinced that the Giants want McCarthy. They are still talent deficient in many areas. Get two good players at 11 and 23.
I’d go for that. But there’s no guarantee for Minnesota that a QB they want will be there at 6.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
It's best to zag. Why not trade down with Minnesota? Grab 11 and 23 for 6. Get the best DB on the board and a tier-2 WR in a deep class. Trade a mid-round pick for Fields.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
I disagree. The Giants will be pretty bad too plus 6 vs 11 is a big drop-off in this draft. Plus the Giants *have* more they could add in that Minnesota doesn't. Minnesota is out a 2nd and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. Doesn't mean the Giants should or will do it, but they could easily top Minnesota's best offer.
Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
You're ignoring the fact that even if you're right and those 3 picks are more valuable than the Giants' 3 picks, the Giants can add to their offer in ways the Vikings can't.
I got heat for saying the Giants would be fine with getting jumped. But IMO there is so much smoke around JJ, and “moving on from Jones”. At this point, it’s almost like the Giants wanted those narratives to get out there. Remember, Schoen is a smart guy - he’s not DG.
Seems like the target for Minn is #4. Wouldn’t make sense for it to be #5 this far out, as they could get jumped.
Wonder if the Chargers also knew the Minn trade as going to happen, and knew they’d get Harrison - which led to them being more comfortable trading Allen. I’m sure they’ve had discussions with Minnesota about #5, so wouldn’t be too far fetched for them to have an inside scoop.
that big things are happening right now in terms of draft positioning.
The biggest thing we have going for us is that we still provide the softest landing for anyone in the top 5, all they have to do is move back to 6 and you're still getting a top 3 OT or WR or the best defensive player in the draft.
I got heat for saying the Giants would be fine with getting jumped. But IMO there is so much smoke around JJ, and “moving on from Jones”. At this point, it’s almost like the Giants wanted those narratives to get out there. Remember, Schoen is a smart guy - he’s not DG.
Seems like the target for Minn is #4. Wouldn’t make sense for it to be #5 this far out, as they could get jumped.
Wonder if the Chargers also knew the Minn trade as going to happen, and knew they’d get Harrison - which led to them being more comfortable trading Allen. I’m sure they’ve had discussions with Minnesota about #5, so wouldn’t be too far fetched for them to have an inside scoop.
So Arizona is going to give up the chance to take Harrison?
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
that big things are happening right now in terms of draft positioning.
The biggest thing we have going for us is that we still provide the softest landing for anyone in the top 5, all they have to do is move back to 6 and you're still getting a top 3 OT or WR or the best defensive player in the draft.
Need to get to 3 now. This idea some other posters talk about waiting until NE is on the clock is wrong. They need to get it done now and eliminate doubt of getting jumped.
The Giants need a QB. So do the Vikings - see how aggressive they are? There is no reason for the Giants to not come away with a QB.
Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
You're ignoring the fact that even if you're right and those 3 picks are more valuable than the Giants' 3 picks, the Giants can add to their offer in ways the Vikings can't.
I'm not ignoring it, I'm assuming that #6, #47, and next year's #1 is the most Schoen would offer to move up.
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
Vegas disagrees with you btw and the Vikings currently have Darnold playing QB. Minnesota has had a good offseason. They lost Hunter but added Greenard, Van Ginkel, Blake Cashman, and Aaron Jones so far. Their OL is already very solid and they're loaded at the skill positions.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
You think Vikings are gonna offer their 1 next year when they just gave away their 2 next year? Definitely possible but a lot to give up to move up 5-8 spots IMO. I hope JS gets his guy
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
Vegas disagrees with you btw and the Vikings currently have Darnold playing QB. Minnesota has had a good offseason. They lost Hunter but added Greenard, Van Ginkel, Blake Cashman, and Aaron Jones so far. Their OL is already very solid and they're loaded at the skill positions.
Darnold is on a one year deal and is the ultimate journeyman QB. Isn't Minnesota his fourth team? My guess is the Vikings want a rookie QB who can sit behind Darnold for a year before taking over in 2025. They know the Giants are in the same situation. Lock is also on a one year deal and will likely start while a rookie QB learns before taking over next season. So the Vikings make this move to try and package #11 and #23 to move up ahead of the Giants.
not sure who in the top 5 is signing up for that. Vikings may just want first crack at QB5 or if QB4 drops.
Why would they do that now?
Good offer, and those don’t always stay in perpetuity. They liked the value and jumped on it. Why else would they have done it?
I don't buy that for a second because teams would not be looking for the 23rd pick unless they had a plan to use the 23rd pick. Why not wait until draft day and see how it is going. 23rd is so far out of the view that it almost makes no sense to trade for that now. My hunch is they have a second deal in place and were told that this is what they needed--so they had to go out and get something of this value and they looked for partners and here we are. There is no way they are saying, well if QB 4 or QB 5 slips to 23 a month out. They are not Houdini or Nostrodamus.
Since 2012. They still have a good OL and Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison & TJ Hockenson on offense. They upgraded their RB position from Alex Mattison to Aaron Jones. Assuming they're going to be worse than the Giants is a stretch.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
Jones averaged 4.6 ypc this past year. What does how much Jefferson makes have to do with his talent? Addison is a star in the making, better than anything the Giants have and Hockenson for half a season is also better than anything the Giants have at TE.
Their OL is easily better. It's not even close. They were 3rd in pass block win rate this past season in the NFL and 19th in run block win rate. The Giants were 24th and 31st. I don't subscribe to PFF to see overall ranking but these are their tackles: Darrisaw's grade = 82.4 and O'Neill's = 74.5.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
Allen coming out of college was not Caleb Williams.
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
Jones averaged 4.6 ypc this past year. What does how much Jefferson makes have to do with his talent? Addison is a star in the making, better than anything the Giants have and Hockenson for half a season is also better than anything the Giants have at TE.
Their OL is easily better. It's not even close. They were 3rd in pass block win rate this past season in the NFL and 19th in run block win rate. The Giants were 24th and 31st. I don't subscribe to PFF to see overall ranking but these are their tackles: Darrisaw's grade = 82.4 and O'Neill's = 74.5.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
But you are forgetting that if that's the offer, then trading with the Giants, you only have to move down 1, 2 or 3 spots.
very possibly.. However, I am starting to think that maybe they are looking to a team that is dumping their players (LAC)- JJ and two #1's for Herbert???
A guy can wish, right..
Maybe you're right...and Harbaugh wants a full reset, he's taking JJ at 5 and best WRs at 11 or 23.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
Giants are going to miss out on a QB because of pointless games won in a year that was over by halftime of the first game.
I have heard people say not to draft a QB this year just because you need one, and you don't want to shop while desperate. Here's the thing: they are desperate, and not picking a QB this year will make them even more desperate next year
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
The Giants have a better chance at making the playoffs than picking 1. I know you like the dramatics, but tell me when the Giants have picked number 1 in the last decade of crap football. It's hard to do and requires luck. I also think Daboll is too good a coach for that to happen.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Different coach, they just traded Mac Jones, I mean, there are no certainties, but I'd wager they take a QB.
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
They can still trade up, but at what cost? This year’s first, next year’s first, and both this year and next year’s second rounders? That would be a big hit to building the rest of the team out. There are clear needs at WR, CB, DT.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
RE: The Giants still have more draft capital than Minnesota does
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
Oh, they are going to have to trade up if they want one. That is obvious.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
they probably wont, players of his caliber at age 24 dont get traded. they would be within their rights to value him beyond 2 firsts even with the contract situation.
im sure if either of NE/AZ will trade without Jefferson and he's willing to extend despite a rookie QB they would prefer to send picks. I dont think any of that is certain though. Arizona may not be willing to give up MHJ and NE may be in the QB game themselves.
they could end up in a spot where jefferson is the only asset that allows them to get to #3 or #4 because that is the only thing those teams like better than the players they can take at 3/4 (the obvious one being MHJ).
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
^This. I'd be stunned if KT was included in any trade package. Schoen wouldn't do it any more than Accorsi would include Osi in the 2004 trade with SD to get Eli.
I would be open to trading Neal as part of a package to move up, but again, I don't think Schoen would do so.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
Cool. This is going to really get interesting over next several weeks
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
One thing to keep in mind with the Lance trade. Almost immediately after Miami traded back to 12 they then went back to 6. So the overall net move for them was really from 3 to 6.
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
Very true. However, it also possible that the teams the Vikings were talking to said that they would not seriously entertain a trade offer unless the Vikings got another first rounder this year because the move back to #11 is so steep
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
Whatever happens, you just always make sure you have a pivot.
Problem with that is falling from 3 to 11 for the Cardinals. They already have a loaded draft capital. They need talent. Falling to 6, however, still enables them to get Harrison or Odunze.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Loading up to jump NYG
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
As I stated they had surgery later than Hockenson and all were back for Week 1, but even if you say he misses the entire season the Vikings offense with their OL, Jefferson, Addison & Jones is significantly better than the Giants offense.
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
The thing with Arizona is that they already have a ton of draft capital in the first 3 rounds: 2 1sts (4, 27), 1 2nd (35th), and 3 3rd's (66, 71, 90). Is it really worth it then to pass up the chance to draft MHJ or move down a few slots and get Odunze, Nabers or Alt? I know if I were a Cardinals fan I'd be pretty pissed off about that given their current WR room.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
But it's not. You're hung up on "three #1's" without regard for the value of each of those picks. #6 is worth more than #11 by a degree that is greater than the difference between #23 and #47, according to leaguewide generally-accepted draft slot valuation.
Could another team prefer Minnesota's draft pick package? Sure. But it's not a sure thing by any stretch, and the general valuation of each team's implied best 3-pick offer does slightly favor the Giants.
There's no reason to deny that other than your own hope that the Giants don't empty the cupboard. But at least say that.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
Problem with that is falling from 3 to 11 for the Cardinals. They already have a loaded draft capital. They need talent. Falling to 6, however, still enables them to get Harrison or Odunze.
It's 4 to 11, but I assume that was a typo.
I'm not sure AZ wants to even trade down to #6 because just doing that could mean they lose out on MHJ. Would #47 be enough to tempt them to do so, or would they want more to incur that risk? But would Minnesota have made this trade with Houston unless they already had a deal in place with AZ or NE? I don't think so.
Would AZ rather have #6 and #47 or #11 and #23? I don't know. I could see it either way. At #11 they'd likely lose out on Nabers and Odunze as you note, but this is a loaded draft at WR, and #23 is a first round pick. But if Minnesota adds its #1 from 2025 then their deal is obviously better.
It's like Rubik's Cube. There are a zillion possibilities.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
You're assuming the Pats are willing to move the pick now without knowing who will be on the board. That's quite a leap
lamar was the 5th qb in his draft. josh allen was the 3rd. if you get the QB right it doesnt matter which pick he went.
Neither of those teams traded the best WR in the NFL who's well on his way to becoming an all-time great. It's apples and oranges. The fanbase would riot
very possibly.. However, I am starting to think that maybe they are looking to a team that is dumping their players (LAC)- JJ and two #1's for Herbert???
A guy can wish, right..
Maybe you're right...and Harbaugh wants a full reset, he's taking JJ at 5 and best WRs at 11 or 23.
This is completely incorrect. Harbaugh chose LAC because of Herbert. There is nothing else about this historically cheap and inept franchise to draw him. He's not taking JJ over an absolute NFL stud like JH. Silly take.
Harbaugh likely has little to no interest in Jefferson
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
lamar was the 5th qb in his draft. josh allen was the 3rd. if you get the QB right it doesnt matter which pick he went.
Neither of those teams traded the best WR in the NFL who's well on his way to becoming an all-time great. It's apples and oranges. The fanbase would riot
beckham got traded ahead of his year 6 (age 26). davante and hill got traded. AJB got traded. Diggs got traded.
im not saying it's going to happen, im not saying it's their preference. but they've been in an extended negotiation with him that hasn't resolved yet.
it is obvious that minnesota is highly motivated to get up for 1 of the top 4 (albright has implied they like JJM more than Maye, and predicted they'd trade up for more than a week).
what i am saying is that in a bidding way jefferson may be a puzzle piece that specifically unlocks arizona even if they are very set on MHJ. nothing NE has done so far makes me think they are going to pass on taking a QB.
I still don't don't think 11 and 23 is enough to move to top 5.
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
I don't think it's that cut and dry. Teams haven't finished evaluations on the players. Even when they do it could be contingent on certain players being available or not being available.
People are overvaluing draft picks. Last time we had 2 high first rounders we got KT and EN. So what? A shot at a legit franchise QB is worth more than both those guys and more. The conservativism and fear gripping some of this fan base is stunning. Winners take bold shots. They don't always pay off but usually enough do to reward the great franchises.
nothing NE has done makes me think they are going to trade #3 before they are on the clock.
it is possible they only like 2 QBs and they trade out of it they get selected ahead of them at the draft.
but they clearly are in position to add a QB at #3 so i cant see them trading out a month ahead of the draft, even if it's on a long shot chance that the teams ahead of them could make surprising picks. i would hold the pick even in the long shot hopes that a gas mask video comes out day of if i liked him or daniels that much.
if a team is making the strategic decision to trade out of the top 4 a month ahead of time i think it's arizona deciding as much as they like MHJ there are other great receivers in the draft and they have a lot of holes to fill. remember they traded back last year and gave up Will Anderson, who like MHJ was the chalk best non-QB in draft. if MIN were to put JJ on the table i think that becomes a no-brainer.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
I've been trying to tell people this. Not to mention we played the Pats game without our best defensive player. Really can't do anything about the Pats Kicker shanking a 35 yard FG to send the game into OT. Can't do anything about the Redskins turning the ball over 5 times including a pick 6 on a potential Skins game winning drive.
I mentioned that Schoen should work on his phone and finalize the trade deal with the Patriots or Cardinals immediately. Waiting will only give the Vikings more time to make a move.
This situation is reminiscent of the 2018 draft when Barkley was considered a can't-miss prospect like MHJ Jr.
We picked him at 2 and didn't prepare for a QB since Gettlemen likely assumed Herbert would enter the draft in 2019, which he didn't. Getty panicked and fell in love with the wrong QB, Daniel Jones, and the whole weird QB saga began.
Schoen needs to act now and avoid repeating Getty's mistake. Delaying a decision until 2025 could result in another Daniel Jones.
Caleb goes 1 Daniels goes 2 Maye goes 3 MH goes 4 to Cardinals...
Vikings trade their two 1sts to the Chargers for Justin Herbert to pair him with Jefferson.
Chargers at 5 draft JJ McCarthy to reunite with Harbaugh
Lol. The Chargers are never trading Herbert. This take is ludicrous. Harbaugh didn't take the LAC job to deal Herbert. He took the job because of Herbert.
That's what I'm thinking, they couldn't get a better deal?
I think it was a nice deal for Houston. Difference between 23 and 42 is not that much, and they get an additional 2nd rounder in 2025, which could be a high pick with Vikes potentially being decent to bad depending on rookie QB play.
is a trade with the Giants. I'm not convinced that the Giants want McCarthy. They are still talent deficient in many areas. Get two good players at 11 and 23.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
What was remarkable about those games, was seeing just how really really bad the Pats and Commanders were. Pats roster, and Commanders just totally checked out mentally from their coaches.
I mentioned that Schoen should work on his phone and finalize the trade deal with the Patriots or Cardinals immediately. Waiting will only give the Vikings more time to make a move.
This situation is reminiscent of the 2018 draft when Barkley was considered a can't-miss prospect like MHJ Jr.
We picked him at 2 and didn't prepare for a QB since Gettlemen likely assumed Herbert would enter the draft in 2019, which he didn't. Getty panicked and fell in love with the wrong QB, Daniel Jones, and the whole weird QB saga began.
Schoen needs to act now and avoid repeating Getty's mistake. Delaying a decision until 2025 could result in another Daniel Jones.
And you don't think if Schoen talks with the Pats or Cardinals that those teams aren't going to call the Vikings? You can bet the Vikings, just like the Giants, have already talked to all the teams in the top 5.
That'd be good. The Giants would probably have dealer's choice on Nabers or Odunze, or potentially trading back 2-3 spots, getting more draft capital, and still getting one of those guys if they are indifferent on which one.
Rickey
@PrettyRickey213
Four QBs being picked in the top 6 guarantees a franchise WR selection (MHJ/Nabers) at the sixth spot. It's a huge piece of draft capital. Vikings have two first rounders, but don't discount how much teams and scouts love MHJ/Nabers. Giants have plenty of ammo too.
That's 100 percent what they're doing. Let's see if Harbaugh takes the bait at 5 or even if the Pats do at 3. Minny is DEAD SET on getting a QB in this draft.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
Patrick Mahomes was picked 15th 🤷🏾♂️
There's a chance Giants could have the best receiver and Qb( Odunze, Rattler)
It's best to zag. Why not trade down with Minnesota? Grab 11 and 23 for 6. Get the best DB on the board and a tier-2 WR in a deep class. Trade a mid-round pick for Fields.
And then look for another QB in 2025? No thanks. This is not smart.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
Patrick Mahomes was picked 15th 🤷🏾♂️
There's a chance Giants could have the best receiver and Qb( Odunze, Rattler)
Really good and long podcast by Tyler Dunne with a former scout in Buffalo. Giant related because they discussed the trade up to get Allen and how Schoen was working the phones constantly to get a deal done and was super paranoid about teams jumping them -- like he apparently freaked out when the Jets jumped to #3. After listening to this, you can't help be be pretty confident that if Schoen wants 1 of the top 4 QBs he is not sitting on his hands and doing everything he can in terms of trading up and is paranoid about the Minnesota trade as much as BBI. Link - ( New Window )
5. Minnesota Vikings (trade with LA Chargers) J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan
"The Vikings... They let Kirk Cousins walk in free agency and then traded up from the second to the first round, likely to acquire more ammo to move into this spot... McCarthy will be dropped into an offense with killer weapons and a sharp head coach..."
That's exactly what they are doing.
Would seem like it.
A guy can wish, right..
It's been on for a while.
Yup
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Would seem like it.
Yup. They will likely offer #11, #23, and their #1 next year IMO to try and get ahead of the Giants. Let him to do so.
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It's been on for a while.
No it’s really really on now. Vikings don’t make this trade unless they’ve been told they needed to obtain certain picks to compete in a trade.
man giving up #6 and potentially another top 10 pick next year would be too rich for my taste. We aren't better than Dallas or Philly right now. You would have to be nearly 100% sure that QB is going to be a stud to make that move.
At face value it seems weird but if they have 20 guys lumped together than it makes sense. They can also move back up, but have already secured that 2nd next year.
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In comment 16432848 Sean said:
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Would seem like it.
Yup. They will likely offer #11, #23, and their #1 next year IMO to try and get ahead of the Giants. Let him to do so.
Their roster is hot garbage. I don’t like this strategy from Kwesi. Lot of Viking fans think he’s out of his head running a team and he’s struggled filling in roster talent the last year or two. Think they also have Hockenson hurt and gave him huge deal after surrendering bunch of picks.
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In comment 16432848 Sean said:
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Would seem like it.
Yup. They will likely offer #11, #23, and their #1 next year IMO to try and get ahead of the Giants. Let him to do so.
They're not getting to 1 or 2 (probably even 3) with that and if they're cool with Maye or JJM at 4/5, fine by me.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year
Link - ( New Window )
How? Vikings have 2 first round picks now.
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for a potential trade-up. Do they want to use it is the question
How? Vikings have 2 first round picks now.
See my last comment
Our 1st and 2nd are worth a little more than 11 & 23 on the draft trade charts.
The Bills maneuvered all over the board to get get enough picks to get in position to take Allen.
Broncos reporters say the Broncos aren't trying to move up.
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
That's what I'm thinking, they couldn't get a better deal?
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
A team has to want to drop to 11 for it to be more valuable
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
I disagree. The Giants will be pretty bad too plus 6 vs 11 is a big drop-off in this draft. Plus the Giants *have* more they could add in that Minnesota doesn't. Minnesota is out a 2nd and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. Doesn't mean the Giants should or will do it, but they could easily top Minnesota's best offer.
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
Our 1st and 2nd are worth a little more than 11 & 23 on the draft trade charts.
I still think teams would rather have #11 and #23, but I am also thinking that Minnesota will include their #1 next year.
I’d go for that. But there’s no guarantee for Minnesota that a QB they want will be there at 6.
The Vikings still have to find a trade partner that would be willing to miss out on the blue chip prospects.
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
Certainly could be but something seems off from a number of areas.
TBH.
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In comment 16432890 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
I disagree. The Giants will be pretty bad too plus 6 vs 11 is a big drop-off in this draft. Plus the Giants *have* more they could add in that Minnesota doesn't. Minnesota is out a 2nd and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. Doesn't mean the Giants should or will do it, but they could easily top Minnesota's best offer.
Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
TBH.
If you think Minnesota is going to suck this year that's a top 40 pick next year.
Or am I incorrect?
Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
You're ignoring the fact that even if you're right and those 3 picks are more valuable than the Giants' 3 picks, the Giants can add to their offer in ways the Vikings can't.
I got heat for saying the Giants would be fine with getting jumped. But IMO there is so much smoke around JJ, and “moving on from Jones”. At this point, it’s almost like the Giants wanted those narratives to get out there. Remember, Schoen is a smart guy - he’s not DG.
Seems like the target for Minn is #4. Wouldn’t make sense for it to be #5 this far out, as they could get jumped.
Wonder if the Chargers also knew the Minn trade as going to happen, and knew they’d get Harrison - which led to them being more comfortable trading Allen. I’m sure they’ve had discussions with Minnesota about #5, so wouldn’t be too far fetched for them to have an inside scoop.
I can't imagine the Pats moving out of 3 *until* they know they're not going to get their guy. They don't have a QB right now.
I suspect the Giants have a deal for that pick ready to go but they won't be able to pull the trigger until draft night.
The biggest thing we have going for us is that we still provide the softest landing for anyone in the top 5, all they have to do is move back to 6 and you're still getting a top 3 OT or WR or the best defensive player in the draft.
Also, The Giants could trade with SD and still get #4 QB.
I got heat for saying the Giants would be fine with getting jumped. But IMO there is so much smoke around JJ, and “moving on from Jones”. At this point, it’s almost like the Giants wanted those narratives to get out there. Remember, Schoen is a smart guy - he’s not DG.
Seems like the target for Minn is #4. Wouldn’t make sense for it to be #5 this far out, as they could get jumped.
Wonder if the Chargers also knew the Minn trade as going to happen, and knew they’d get Harrison - which led to them being more comfortable trading Allen. I’m sure they’ve had discussions with Minnesota about #5, so wouldn’t be too far fetched for them to have an inside scoop.
So Arizona is going to give up the chance to take Harrison?
They need to get a guy like Odunze, Nabors or Harrison. Those guys aren't falling to 11.
Correct
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
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In comment 16432890 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I thought it was implied, but here:
Giants: #6, #47, #1 (2025).
Minnesota: #11, #23, #1 (2025).
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
The biggest thing we have going for us is that we still provide the softest landing for anyone in the top 5, all they have to do is move back to 6 and you're still getting a top 3 OT or WR or the best defensive player in the draft.
Need to get to 3 now. This idea some other posters talk about waiting until NE is on the clock is wrong. They need to get it done now and eliminate doubt of getting jumped.
The Giants need a QB. So do the Vikings - see how aggressive they are? There is no reason for the Giants to not come away with a QB.
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Agree to disagree. I think most teams would be willing to drop from #6 to #11 to get #23 and a #1 next year instead of #47. Six to eleven is only five spots.
But I also don't think Minnesota does this unless they are confident that doing so means they can move ahead of the Giants.
You're ignoring the fact that even if you're right and those 3 picks are more valuable than the Giants' 3 picks, the Giants can add to their offer in ways the Vikings can't.
I'm not ignoring it, I'm assuming that #6, #47, and next year's #1 is the most Schoen would offer to move up.
Why would they do that now?
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Going to have to make an offer they can't refuse. It's gotta get done now.
I can't imagine the Pats moving out of 3 *until* they know they're not going to get their guy. They don't have a QB right now.
I suspect the Giants have a deal for that pick ready to go but they won't be able to pull the trigger until draft night.
Probably true.
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
Vegas disagrees with you btw and the Vikings currently have Darnold playing QB. Minnesota has had a good offseason. They lost Hunter but added Greenard, Van Ginkel, Blake Cashman, and Aaron Jones so far. Their OL is already very solid and they're loaded at the skill positions.
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not sure who in the top 5 is signing up for that. Vikings may just want first crack at QB5 or if QB4 drops.
Why would they do that now?
It's possible Houston had another similar offer they would've taken
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
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TBH.
If you think Minnesota is going to suck this year that's a top 40 pick next year.
I guess. But they are dropping 20 spots to get a 2 next year? Fuck that
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not sure who in the top 5 is signing up for that. Vikings may just want first crack at QB5 or if QB4 drops.
Why would they do that now?
Good offer, and those don’t always stay in perpetuity. They liked the value and jumped on it. Why else would they have done it?
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In comment 16432906 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16432890 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I thought it was implied, but here:
Giants: #6, #47, #1 (2025).
Minnesota: #11, #23, #1 (2025).
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
You think Vikings are gonna offer their 1 next year when they just gave away their 2 next year? Definitely possible but a lot to give up to move up 5-8 spots IMO. I hope JS gets his guy
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I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
Vegas disagrees with you btw and the Vikings currently have Darnold playing QB. Minnesota has had a good offseason. They lost Hunter but added Greenard, Van Ginkel, Blake Cashman, and Aaron Jones so far. Their OL is already very solid and they're loaded at the skill positions.
Darnold is on a one year deal and is the ultimate journeyman QB. Isn't Minnesota his fourth team? My guess is the Vikings want a rookie QB who can sit behind Darnold for a year before taking over in 2025. They know the Giants are in the same situation. Lock is also on a one year deal and will likely start while a rookie QB learns before taking over next season. So the Vikings make this move to try and package #11 and #23 to move up ahead of the Giants.
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
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In comment 16432950 UConn4523 said:
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not sure who in the top 5 is signing up for that. Vikings may just want first crack at QB5 or if QB4 drops.
Why would they do that now?
Good offer, and those don’t always stay in perpetuity. They liked the value and jumped on it. Why else would they have done it?
I don't buy that for a second because teams would not be looking for the 23rd pick unless they had a plan to use the 23rd pick. Why not wait until draft day and see how it is going. 23rd is so far out of the view that it almost makes no sense to trade for that now. My hunch is they have a second deal in place and were told that this is what they needed--so they had to go out and get something of this value and they looked for partners and here we are. There is no way they are saying, well if QB 4 or QB 5 slips to 23 a month out. They are not Houdini or Nostrodamus.
6>11
47<23
Giants 1st>Vikings 1st
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
Jones averaged 4.6 ypc this past year. What does how much Jefferson makes have to do with his talent? Addison is a star in the making, better than anything the Giants have and Hockenson for half a season is also better than anything the Giants have at TE.
Their OL is easily better. It's not even close. They were 3rd in pass block win rate this past season in the NFL and 19th in run block win rate. The Giants were 24th and 31st. I don't subscribe to PFF to see overall ranking but these are their tackles: Darrisaw's grade = 82.4 and O'Neill's = 74.5.
Allen coming out of college was not Caleb Williams.
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Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
Jones averaged 4.6 ypc this past year. What does how much Jefferson makes have to do with his talent? Addison is a star in the making, better than anything the Giants have and Hockenson for half a season is also better than anything the Giants have at TE.
Their OL is easily better. It's not even close. They were 3rd in pass block win rate this past season in the NFL and 19th in run block win rate. The Giants were 24th and 31st. I don't subscribe to PFF to see overall ranking but these are their tackles: Darrisaw's grade = 82.4 and O'Neill's = 74.5.
I stand corrected on the OL.
@JordanRaanan
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13s
As one GM told me after the combine: There are four Top 10 QBs in this draft (including J.J. McCarthy).
The Minnesota Vikings are loading up with ammunition to make sure they get one.
The No. 4 pick, owned by the Arizona Cardinals, is one to watch. Maybe No. 3 (Patriots) too?
Or am I incorrect?
I don't get the logic?
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In comment 16432906 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16432890 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
Why are you counting 3 1s for Minnesota and not the Giants #6 this year?
I thought it was implied, but here:
Giants: #6, #47, #1 (2025).
Minnesota: #11, #23, #1 (2025).
I'd rather have what Minnesota is offering. First round picks have a fifth year option, and I think there is a high likelihood that Minnesota's #1 could be a top five pick next year. The Giants have made additions that might well make them a middle of the pack team next year.
But you are forgetting that if that's the offer, then trading with the Giants, you only have to move down 1, 2 or 3 spots.
A guy can wish, right..
Maybe you're right...and Harbaugh wants a full reset, he's taking JJ at 5 and best WRs at 11 or 23.
@JordanRaanan
·
13s
As one GM told me after the combine: There are four Top 10 QBs in this draft (including J.J. McCarthy).
The Minnesota Vikings are loading up with ammunition to make sure they get one.
The No. 4 pick, owned by the Arizona Cardinals, is one to watch. Maybe No. 3 (Patriots) too?
The Giants need a QB. There is no reason to come out of this draft with no QB. None.
[quote] In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp. [/quote
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
That is correct. They made this deal as step one of two parts. You don't make this deal unless you have something in place already.
I have heard people say not to draft a QB this year just because you need one, and you don't want to shop while desperate. Here's the thing: they are desperate, and not picking a QB this year will make them even more desperate next year
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In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
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Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
13s
As one GM told me after the combine: There are four Top 10 QBs in this draft (including J.J. McCarthy).
The Minnesota Vikings are loading up with ammunition to make sure they get one.
The No. 4 pick, owned by the Arizona Cardinals, is one to watch. Maybe No. 3 (Patriots) too?
The Giants need a QB. There is no reason to come out of this draft with no QB. None.
Sean -- I wish you would stop beating around the bush about what the Giants should in this Draft.
LOL
then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
Fascinating stuff ahead. Some anxiety, but this is what makes draft fun (leading up to).
Different coach, they just traded Mac Jones, I mean, there are no certainties, but I'd wager they take a QB.
then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
Well for them it is when they see who is throwing them the ball next season.
They can still trade up, but at what cost? This year’s first, next year’s first, and both this year and next year’s second rounders? That would be a big hit to building the rest of the team out. There are clear needs at WR, CB, DT.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
This is the truth. This is the logic. But I think you should panic instead.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
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Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
Oh, they are going to have to trade up if they want one. That is obvious.
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
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In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
Which would leave us one spot away from Marvin Harrison Jr....
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
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3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
they probably wont, players of his caliber at age 24 dont get traded. they would be within their rights to value him beyond 2 firsts even with the contract situation.
im sure if either of NE/AZ will trade without Jefferson and he's willing to extend despite a rookie QB they would prefer to send picks. I dont think any of that is certain though. Arizona may not be willing to give up MHJ and NE may be in the QB game themselves.
they could end up in a spot where jefferson is the only asset that allows them to get to #3 or #4 because that is the only thing those teams like better than the players they can take at 3/4 (the obvious one being MHJ).
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to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
Why? And just to be clear, it's KT, not LT.
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Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
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to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
^This. I'd be stunned if KT was included in any trade package. Schoen wouldn't do it any more than Accorsi would include Osi in the 2004 trade with SD to get Eli.
I would be open to trading Neal as part of a package to move up, but again, I don't think Schoen would do so.
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3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
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concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
thinks Justin Herbert is one of the most talented QB’s in the league and one of the main reasons he took the Chargers job.
Herbert isn’t going anywhere.
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In comment 16433014 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
Hopefully, he doesn't turn off his cell phone.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
One thing to keep in mind with the Lance trade. Almost immediately after Miami traded back to 12 they then went back to 6. So the overall net move for them was really from 3 to 6.
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Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
Very true. However, it also possible that the teams the Vikings were talking to said that they would not seriously entertain a trade offer unless the Vikings got another first rounder this year because the move back to #11 is so steep
Whatever happens, you just always make sure you have a pivot.
If it means taking Nabers or Odunze, so be it.
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In comment 16433017 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16433014 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
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Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
As I stated they had surgery later than Hockenson and all were back for Week 1, but even if you say he misses the entire season the Vikings offense with their OL, Jefferson, Addison & Jones is significantly better than the Giants offense.
The thing with Arizona is that they already have a ton of draft capital in the first 3 rounds: 2 1sts (4, 27), 1 2nd (35th), and 3 3rd's (66, 71, 90). Is it really worth it then to pass up the chance to draft MHJ or move down a few slots and get Odunze, Nabers or Alt? I know if I were a Cardinals fan I'd be pretty pissed off about that given their current WR room.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
I can't believe the value of that Pats pick is static. What may be the value right now, could change in an hour. This should be viewed as an auction.
The talked with AZ who is staying in place to draft Harrison.
LA gets the (2) 2024 1sts and Jefferson.
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what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
I agree and think this is the play in motion. We'll see if it works out.
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In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
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wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
But it's not. You're hung up on "three #1's" without regard for the value of each of those picks. #6 is worth more than #11 by a degree that is greater than the difference between #23 and #47, according to leaguewide generally-accepted draft slot valuation.
Could another team prefer Minnesota's draft pick package? Sure. But it's not a sure thing by any stretch, and the general valuation of each team's implied best 3-pick offer does slightly favor the Giants.
There's no reason to deny that other than your own hope that the Giants don't empty the cupboard. But at least say that.
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In comment 16433054 Eric on Li said:
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what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
Trading JJ to get the 4th QB would be utterly insane
The talked with AZ who is staying in place to draft Harrison.
LA gets the (2) 2024 1sts and Jefferson.
2 firsts + jefferson would be an overpay. LAC also has a tough cap situation.
not impossible but doesnt seem like harbough move.
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
Or the 32nd.
No one manages the way you're suggesting.
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In comment 16433034 eric2425ny said:
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concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
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I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
I can't believe the value of that Pats pick is static. What may be the value right now, could change in an hour. This should be viewed as an auction.
Agreed - Pats are in no pressure to trade pick and they know it, with the multiple QB options.
Teams can say "take it or leave it - offer expires this weekend" and they know it's a total bluff.
There's no pivot point elsewhere to trade up ahead of them.
It's 4 to 11, but I assume that was a typo.
I'm not sure AZ wants to even trade down to #6 because just doing that could mean they lose out on MHJ. Would #47 be enough to tempt them to do so, or would they want more to incur that risk? But would Minnesota have made this trade with Houston unless they already had a deal in place with AZ or NE? I don't think so.
Would AZ rather have #6 and #47 or #11 and #23? I don't know. I could see it either way. At #11 they'd likely lose out on Nabers and Odunze as you note, but this is a loaded draft at WR, and #23 is a first round pick. But if Minnesota adds its #1 from 2025 then their deal is obviously better.
It's like Rubik's Cube. There are a zillion possibilities.
Good discussion.
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In comment 16433060 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16433054 Eric on Li said:
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what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
Trading JJ to get the 4th QB would be utterly insane
lamar was the 5th qb in his draft. josh allen was the 3rd. if you get the QB right it doesnt matter which pick he went.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
You're assuming the Pats are willing to move the pick now without knowing who will be on the board. That's quite a leap
lamar was the 5th qb in his draft. josh allen was the 3rd. if you get the QB right it doesnt matter which pick he went.
Neither of those teams traded the best WR in the NFL who's well on his way to becoming an all-time great. It's apples and oranges. The fanbase would riot
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very possibly.. However, I am starting to think that maybe they are looking to a team that is dumping their players (LAC)- JJ and two #1's for Herbert???
A guy can wish, right..
Maybe you're right...and Harbaugh wants a full reset, he's taking JJ at 5 and best WRs at 11 or 23.
This is completely incorrect. Harbaugh chose LAC because of Herbert. There is nothing else about this historically cheap and inept franchise to draw him. He's not taking JJ over an absolute NFL stud like JH. Silly take.
Paying a WR (even a good one) doesn't compute with him and what he's stated even back when he was with Niners. OL, QB, heavy run game.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
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lamar was the 5th qb in his draft. josh allen was the 3rd. if you get the QB right it doesnt matter which pick he went.
Neither of those teams traded the best WR in the NFL who's well on his way to becoming an all-time great. It's apples and oranges. The fanbase would riot
beckham got traded ahead of his year 6 (age 26). davante and hill got traded. AJB got traded. Diggs got traded.
im not saying it's going to happen, im not saying it's their preference. but they've been in an extended negotiation with him that hasn't resolved yet.
it is obvious that minnesota is highly motivated to get up for 1 of the top 4 (albright has implied they like JJM more than Maye, and predicted they'd trade up for more than a week).
what i am saying is that in a bidding way jefferson may be a puzzle piece that specifically unlocks arizona even if they are very set on MHJ. nothing NE has done so far makes me think they are going to pass on taking a QB.
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In comment 16433046 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16433034 eric2425ny said:
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concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
If that is true AND we are trading into the top 3, we should have a deal in place. We don’t so that either means we won’t be or we don’t have a deal in place and other teams are trying to nail down that deal.
I don't think it's that cut and dry. Teams haven't finished evaluations on the players. Even when they do it could be contingent on certain players being available or not being available.
Vikings trade their two 1sts to the Chargers for Justin Herbert to pair him with Jefferson.
Chargers at 5 draft JJ McCarthy to reunite with Harbaugh
it is possible they only like 2 QBs and they trade out of it they get selected ahead of them at the draft.
but they clearly are in position to add a QB at #3 so i cant see them trading out a month ahead of the draft, even if it's on a long shot chance that the teams ahead of them could make surprising picks. i would hold the pick even in the long shot hopes that a gas mask video comes out day of if i liked him or daniels that much.
if a team is making the strategic decision to trade out of the top 4 a month ahead of time i think it's arizona deciding as much as they like MHJ there are other great receivers in the draft and they have a lot of holes to fill. remember they traded back last year and gave up Will Anderson, who like MHJ was the chalk best non-QB in draft. if MIN were to put JJ on the table i think that becomes a no-brainer.
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Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
I've been trying to tell people this. Not to mention we played the Pats game without our best defensive player. Really can't do anything about the Pats Kicker shanking a 35 yard FG to send the game into OT. Can't do anything about the Redskins turning the ball over 5 times including a pick 6 on a potential Skins game winning drive.
This situation is reminiscent of the 2018 draft when Barkley was considered a can't-miss prospect like MHJ Jr.
We picked him at 2 and didn't prepare for a QB since Gettlemen likely assumed Herbert would enter the draft in 2019, which he didn't. Getty panicked and fell in love with the wrong QB, Daniel Jones, and the whole weird QB saga began.
Schoen needs to act now and avoid repeating Getty's mistake. Delaying a decision until 2025 could result in another Daniel Jones.
Vikings trade their two 1sts to the Chargers for Justin Herbert to pair him with Jefferson.
Chargers at 5 draft JJ McCarthy to reunite with Harbaugh
Lol. The Chargers are never trading Herbert. This take is ludicrous. Harbaugh didn't take the LAC job to deal Herbert. He took the job because of Herbert.
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.
That's what I'm thinking, they couldn't get a better deal?
I think it was a nice deal for Houston. Difference between 23 and 42 is not that much, and they get an additional 2nd rounder in 2025, which could be a high pick with Vikes potentially being decent to bad depending on rookie QB play.
Yup - that would be an option too.
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Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
If you were trying to lose those games, what could you do that would be more favorable (or unfavorable, I guess) to that end besides starting an unheralded rookie UDFA at QB? That WAS the best chance to tank. But you can't tell the players to throw the games.
As for whether the fans were happy or not, remind us how that impacts the outcome of the game?
Do you just go out of your way to try to come up with the dumbest fucking takes imaginable, or do they come to you by surprise?
What was remarkable about those games, was seeing just how really really bad the Pats and Commanders were. Pats roster, and Commanders just totally checked out mentally from their coaches.
If they have two firsts this year, similar to what the Vikings did, it will be check mate.
This situation is reminiscent of the 2018 draft when Barkley was considered a can't-miss prospect like MHJ Jr.
We picked him at 2 and didn't prepare for a QB since Gettlemen likely assumed Herbert would enter the draft in 2019, which he didn't. Getty panicked and fell in love with the wrong QB, Daniel Jones, and the whole weird QB saga began.
Schoen needs to act now and avoid repeating Getty's mistake. Delaying a decision until 2025 could result in another Daniel Jones.
And you don't think if Schoen talks with the Pats or Cardinals that those teams aren't going to call the Vikings? You can bet the Vikings, just like the Giants, have already talked to all the teams in the top 5.
Agree. Also rare to see teams swap pick numbers this far before the draft. On draft day? Sure. But this is quite unusual.
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.
Agree. Also rare to see teams swap pick numbers this far before the draft. On draft day? Sure. But this is quite unusual.
Exactly. I truly don’t understand the need for the Texans to make this trade at this date.
then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
I disagree.
It is bad if your QB room consists of DJ, Lock & Cutlets...
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then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
I disagree.
It is bad if your QB room consists of DJ, Lock & Cutlets...
That'd be good. The Giants would probably have dealer's choice on Nabers or Odunze, or potentially trading back 2-3 spots, getting more draft capital, and still getting one of those guys if they are indifferent on which one.
@PrettyRickey213
Four QBs being picked in the top 6 guarantees a franchise WR selection (MHJ/Nabers) at the sixth spot. It's a huge piece of draft capital. Vikings have two first rounders, but don't discount how much teams and scouts love MHJ/Nabers. Giants have plenty of ammo too.
That's fine for a year if we're building up a very poor roster. It's about time this team accepts that it is rebuilding.
That's 100 percent what they're doing. Let's see if Harbaugh takes the bait at 5 or even if the Pats do at 3. Minny is DEAD SET on getting a QB in this draft.
I think Nix goes 12 to the Broncos. Pennix at 23 would make sense for them at 23 so they can get that 5th year option.
Patrick Mahomes was picked 15th 🤷🏾♂️
There's a chance Giants could have the best receiver and Qb( Odunze, Rattler)
And then look for another QB in 2025? No thanks. This is not smart.
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Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
Patrick Mahomes was picked 15th 🤷🏾♂️
There's a chance Giants could have the best receiver and Qb( Odunze, Rattler)
Yeah, no. Rattler is a JAG and a head case.
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I have Nix tied with McCarthy, below Williams and Daniels, but well above Maye...So Nix is not an ugh to me ... Maye is
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In comment 16433060 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16433054 Eric on Li said:
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what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
Trading JJ to get the 4th QB would be utterly insane
I agree with this. I think if anything both firsts this year and 1st next year for 5th would get it done. That is a ton for the 4th QB off the board.
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No one wants Nix or Penix. Ugh.
I have Nix tied with McCarthy, below Williams and Daniels, but well above Maye...So Nix is not an ugh to me ... Maye is
Sounds like you are a Chris Simms follower... He is one of the best QB guys out there.
Vikings trade their two 1sts to the Chargers for Justin Herbert to pair him with Jefferson.
Chargers at 5 draft JJ McCarthy to reunite with Harbaugh
That is interesting. I can see Harbaugh doing that and that would suck.
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In comment 16433395 Dave in Hoboken said:
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No one wants Nix or Penix. Ugh.
I have Nix tied with McCarthy, below Williams and Daniels, but well above Maye...So Nix is not an ugh to me ... Maye is
Sounds like you are a Chris Simms follower... He is one of the best QB guys out there.
I just like Nix and McCarthy...
"The Vikings... They let Kirk Cousins walk in free agency and then traded up from the second to the first round, likely to acquire more ammo to move into this spot... McCarthy will be dropped into an offense with killer weapons and a sharp head coach..."