I see a lot of posters saying there is no chance NE trades the 3rd pick. Tony Pauline reported that the Patriots will trade pick 3 if Jayden Daniels isn't there. They are not enamored with Maye, in fact a lot of their scouts are down on him. Here's the quote from Pauline:
"I was told at the combine that the New England Patriots would trade back if Jayden Daniels did not drop to their slot," Pauline wrote. "Just today, I heard further that several scouts from the Patriots organization are not fans of Maye, who really struggled down the stretch of the season." |
There have also been reports (including a poster here who had some ties to folks with the Pats) suggesting NE really likes Bo Nix.
The Vikings appear to be gearing up for a tradeup, I know they had been in extensive talks with the Cardinals. I'm guessing the move to get the Texans 1st round pick is in response to those negotiations not being successful. So, they talked to the Patriots and are preparing to offer them 3 1st round picks (11, 23 and 2025 1st) plus a bit extra to sweeten the deal. If the Patriots like Nix as reported, a trade down with the Vikings would be perfect. They could ensure they get Nix and then get an offensive lineman and wr with the next 2 picks (Brian Thomas Jr and Jordan Morgan or Fautanu). They have arguably the worst roster in the league and a move like this would do wonders for them if they are right about Nix.
Also, the Vikings are reportedly high on Drake Maye and their qb coach Josh Mccown coached him in high school.
This would leave us with JJ McCarthy whom is obviously a polarizing player here. Many scouts including Sy actually have him a notch above Maye in ratings; while many posters think he isn't worth a top 6 pick and is another Daniel Jones. I would love this scenario as I'm one of those that likes JJM more than DM. I would hate to trade a kings ransom for Drake Maye even though I would still be happy to get a new rookie qb. Nevertheless, getting JJM without having to spend much mote than pick 6 (maybe slight tradeup with LAC) would be a dream scenario. Maybe the Vikings desperate maneuvers could be a blessing in disguise for us?
As far as Nix is concerned, I've heard that the Broncos, who are picking 12th, love him. I could see Demver trading ahead of the 11th pick to get to him, so the Pats might safer trading with the Giants at 6 to get their guy. I also wonder who the Pats prefer given the choice: JJM or Nix? Also, what do the Pats think of JJM?
I could EASILY see the Chargers trading back and acquiring more picks. Would the Vikes be willing to trade up to 5 to get JJM? I wonder if the Pats make a deal with the Giants instead for something like the Giants' 1st & 3rd picks next year & the Giants' 2nd rounder this year? The Pats could still take one of JJM or Nix at 6, whoever's there. The Cards look almost sure to be taking MHJr at 4 IMO.
Thus, if they get a king's ransom for the third pick, and they can fill more holes/needs, that will make a lot of sense under the circumstances - IMV.
And if they like Nix, they would have plenty of options/opportunities to grab him.
Thus, if they get a king's ransom for the third pick, and they can fill more holes/needs, that will make a lot of sense under the circumstances - IMV.
And if they like Nix, they would have plenty of options/opportunities to grab him.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Nix but he could be very solid and a haul of Nix, Brian Thomas Jr and Fautanu or Jordan Morgan plus an extra 2025 1st and 3rd or so would leave me pretty excited for the future if I were a Pats fan, God forbid.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
I would love to be in Vegas and sit down at a poker table with the Maras and akin.
I would love to be in Vegas and sit down at a poker table with the Maras and akin.
Yeah, you have to laugh when some claim "it's smoke." It's never been smoke with the Giants.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
So here’s a counter move to that. A scenario I’ve been thinking about. Giants trade up to 5th with the chargers for their 4th round pick. It’s slightly below the trade value chart but the chargers may go for it because they know the giants aren’t taking anyone they want.
THEN, they trade up again with AZ to 4 adding a 4th for next year. AZ takes it for the same reason. There is no threat to getting who they want.
Giants would trade up to 4th for just a couple of 4th round picks. I feel like both teams would be willing to take a little less value because they don’t lose any ability to choose who they want.
But you're on the mark about giving up picks to move up one spot.
As far as Nix is concerned, I've heard that the Broncos, who are picking 12th, love him. I could see Demver trading ahead of the 11th pick to get to him, so the Pats might safer trading with the Giants at 6 to get their guy. I also wonder who the Pats prefer given the choice: JJM or Nix? Also, what do the Pats think of JJM?
I could EASILY see the Chargers trading back and acquiring more picks. Would the Vikes be willing to trade up to 5 to get JJM? I wonder if the Pats make a deal with the Giants instead for something like the Giants' 1st & 3rd picks next year & the Giants' 2nd rounder this year? The Pats could still take one of JJM or Nix at 6, whoever's there. The Cards look almost sure to be taking MHJr at 4 IMO.
I really think the Pats and Vikings have a deal on place. We would most likely have to overpay a bit to move up one spot with the Chargers if we want JJM, but I think Harbaugh wants a blue chip foundational building block player and I don't think he will bite on an offer from the Broncos or Raiders our anyone out of the top 10. We may have to trade a future 3rd and 5th or something along those lines, maybe more, but I think Schoen would ensure he gets JJM if he wants him (which it seems he does).
The Patriots could easily make a deal with the Falcons or Titans or Bears or Jets if they got word they needed to avoid being jumped for Nix. If they want Nix they can get him from 11 100% imo. I don't think AZ really wants to lose out on MHJ unless they were extremely overpaid, hence why I think the Vikings made the move for pick 23 and have something setup with the Patriots.
I see it going as follows:
1. Commanders trade something crazy for CW
2. Bears take Jayden Daniels
3. Vikings trade a king's ransom for DM
4. AZ takes MHJ
5. Giants trade future 3rd and 5thish JJM
6. Chargers take Odunze or Bowers or Alt, I think they go Odunze as Sewell is a solid left tackle and Harbaugh isn't dumb enough to take a right tackle this high
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can the dopes at 1925 Giants Way STFU for a change and not make it so obvious who they like?
I would love to be in Vegas and sit down at a poker table with the Maras and akin.
Yeah, you have to laugh when some claim "it's smoke." It's never been smoke with the Giants.
Has it been any better since Schoen took over? I don't remember anyone having us on Banks.
Schoen talked about this last year. He said he never had to worry in Buffalo about the media reporting their 30 visits.
Yes I believe they like Maye too. I think they probably have them graded very similarly and who knows who they would take if they had the option of both. Ultimately, I think the Vikings have come up with an offer Schoen doesn't care to beat (maybe if he wasn't high on JJM, he would get into this bidding war).
Schoen talked about this last year. He said he never had to worry in Buffalo about the media reporting their 30 visits.
Certainly fair. It's not even Schoen I worry about but other people in the organization.
I think after offering a lot of draft capital to move up to 3, Schoen wouldn't shy away from overpaying a bit to secure the qb he wants. Trading up twice to ensure it could make sense indeed. Either way, I think Schoen will do what it takes and not miss out on a QB they believe in, especially after offering presumably pick 6 plus our 2025 1st and more to the Pats.
Having flashbacks to McConnell texts on the Flores lawsuit here.
Certainly fair. It's not even Schoen I worry about but other people in the organization.
It's definitely not Schoen. It's the Mara jackasses.
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Certainly fair. It's not even Schoen I worry about but other people in the organization.
It's definitely not Schoen. It's the Mara jackasses.
100%, maybe JJM could be like the son Mara thought he had in DJ. As in someone he could love with all his heart who is actually a good qb for us. One can hope and dream, at least.
Schoen was in Ann Arbor in October when Michigan played Indiana. Brandon Brown and Tim McDonnell were at the Michigan-Ohio State game.
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The Giants might love JJ, but don't forget that Schoen went to multiple UNC games last fall.
Schoen was in Ann Arbor in October when Michigan played Indiana. Brandon Brown and Tim McDonnell were at the Michigan-Ohio State game.
This! The Giants heavily scouted both Maye and JJ more so than any other prospect this year. I just keep envisioning a “Draft Day” movie type ending to this. No matter what Shoen does, he has a piece of paper that reads, “JJ McCarthy no matter what”
Seems contrary to everything we hear, if you love your guy go get him then why would NE sit on their hands and hope for Daniels?
They have no QB and have the opportunity this year to be in striking range to get the one they love.
Not insinuating this is the case but it seems odd
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Do you think the Giants prefer McCarthy to Maye or is he just the acceptable #4 here? Ie if Giants traded to 3 - would they take McCarthy over Maye?
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Do you think the Giants prefer McCarthy to Maye or is he just the acceptable #4 here? Ie if Giants traded to 3 - would they take McCarthy over Maye?
I don't know. I've heard they like both. Honestly, Chris Simms and Sy have me a bit worried about Maye, but he looks like the more prototypical NFL QB. On the other hand, I strongly suggest it was Giants who McCarthy wowed with his chalkboard work at the Combine.
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The Giants might love JJ, but don't forget that Schoen went to multiple UNC games last fall.
Yes I believe they like Maye too. I think they probably have them graded very similarly and who knows who they would take if they had the option of both. Ultimately, I think the Vikings have come up with an offer Schoen doesn't care to beat (maybe if he wasn't high on JJM, he would get into this bidding war).
Am I the only person that does not like Maye? I like Nix and McCarthy better.
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Certainly fair. It's not even Schoen I worry about but other people in the organization.
It's definitely not Schoen. It's the Mara jackasses.
Bingo
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In comment 16434329 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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The Giants might love JJ, but don't forget that Schoen went to multiple UNC games last fall.
Yes I believe they like Maye too. I think they probably have them graded very similarly and who knows who they would take if they had the option of both. Ultimately, I think the Vikings have come up with an offer Schoen doesn't care to beat (maybe if he wasn't high on JJM, he would get into this bidding war).
Am I the only person that does not like Maye? I like Nix and McCarthy better.
I'm not a big Maye guy but I would take him over Nix and Pennix. I wouldn't trade a massive haul for him and I would take JJM over him myself.
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In comment 16434310 Eric from BBI said:
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Do you think the Giants prefer McCarthy to Maye or is he just the acceptable #4 here? Ie if Giants traded to 3 - would they take McCarthy over Maye?
I don't know. I've heard they like both. Honestly, Chris Simms and Sy have me a bit worried about Maye, but he looks like the more prototypical NFL QB. On the other hand, I strongly suggest it was Giants who McCarthy wowed with his chalkboard work at the Combine.
I get the feeling the Giants really like JJM, but felt like they could work with Maye. I can't predict who they would take if they had both options at 3, I suspect the reason they were working with the Patriots to trade up to 3 is because the Cardinals wanted close to the same amount for pick 4 so they put all their chips in for pick 3. I'd imagine they would take either one of them at 5 or 6 and they feel strongly that AZ is going to take MHJ.
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In comment 16434329 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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The Giants might love JJ, but don't forget that Schoen went to multiple UNC games last fall.
Yes I believe they like Maye too. I think they probably have them graded very similarly and who knows who they would take if they had the option of both. Ultimately, I think the Vikings have come up with an offer Schoen doesn't care to beat (maybe if he wasn't high on JJM, he would get into this bidding war).
Am I the only person that does not like Maye? I like Nix and McCarthy better.
It doesn't seem like the PAtriots do either. If, however, Schoen and Daboll get their guy at 3 in Maye, and he flops, then Schoen and Dabes are gonna go bye bye,
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
The Bears would be smart to make the Commanders sweat it out in a slight trade up to pick 1. Get every last bit of draft capital they can. You do bring up an interesting point in that all this comes down to JD. I haven't actually seen any reports suggesting Washington prefers Maye. I have actually seen reports suggesting the general consensus amongst NFL people is CW and JD go 1-2. I think the Peters prefers Maye stuff is purely speculation and I haven't seen anything reporting this with substance behind it.
vikings are clear odds on fav to jump us to take maye.
we are left with mccarthy if nobody else trades up.
i like JJ, but not 6.
its just another DJ to me.
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
I also don't think the Vikings would prepare themselves for a teade like this unless they had a strong suspicion that the Patriots would indeed go through with the trade, like I said before it seems like NFL people basically think it's a given that CW and JD go 1-2. JD is my top rated qb in the draft so it makes perfect sense to me. JD's got a lot more in his tool box than Maye imo.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
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analysis.
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
I also don't think the Vikings would prepare themselves for a teade like this unless they had a strong suspicion that the Patriots would indeed go through with the trade, like I said before it seems like NFL people basically think it's a given that CW and JD go 1-2. JD is my top rated qb in the draft so it makes perfect sense to me. JD's got a lot more in his tool box than Maye imo.
I agree with that. Minnesota might have intel that Washington indeed does like and will take Daniels. At that point, the "dominoes" start to fall into place. Minnesota trades up to #3 and takes Maye. AZ takes MHJ. SD takes whoever. The Giants take JJM. Denver takes Nix.
vikings are clear odds on fav to jump us to take maye.
we are left with mccarthy if nobody else trades up.
i like JJ, but not 6.
its just another DJ to me.
It seems as though many of the pros disagree with that perspective, but I respect it. And I agree that reading the tea leaves it seems as though the Vikings have the trade with the Pats locked up and it will likely be CW, JD, then Maye to Vikimgs and MHJ to AZ. I think the Giants like JJM enough to ensure they don't get jumped via a slight trade up with the Chargers for a future 3rd or so. The timing of the Vikings getting that pick 23 and us putting all our chips on the table for the Pats in a take it or leave it fashion, really make me feel like the Vikings won that bidding war. Trading your future first and more for a guy that doesn't turn into an elite qb is a death sentence. Ultimately, I think this could work out very well for us.
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In comment 16434384 AcidTest said:
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analysis.
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
I also don't think the Vikings would prepare themselves for a teade like this unless they had a strong suspicion that the Patriots would indeed go through with the trade, like I said before it seems like NFL people basically think it's a given that CW and JD go 1-2. JD is my top rated qb in the draft so it makes perfect sense to me. JD's got a lot more in his tool box than Maye imo.
I agree with that. Minnesota might have intel that Washington indeed does like and will take Daniels. At that point, the "dominoes" start to fall into place. Minnesota trades up to #3 and takes Maye. AZ takes MHJ. SD takes whoever. The Giants take JJM. Denver takes Nix.
I think NE will get Nix whether they find they have to trade up or not I believe Nix is their guy since they can't get JD, hence the trade down to 11 ahead of the Broncos with far more draft capital to make sure they get him.
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In comment 16434391 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16434384 AcidTest said:
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analysis.
I think all of this depends on Washington. I am probably in the minority, but I don't see Washington trading up to #1. I think if that deal was going to happen it would have already been completed. So Caleb Williams to the Bears.
But who does Washington take? The reports are that Peters likes Maye, but Klingsbury likes Daniels. I have no idea who Quinn likes. If Washington takes Maye then NE takes Daniels. If Washington takes Daniels, then NE trades with Minnesota. I agree with your conclusion that NE has probably won the bidding war for the right to the #3 pick.
The question is whether Minnesota would try and move up to #4 or #5 to get JJM if they can't trade with NE. If your assumption is correct, then they already tried but were unable to trade with the Cardinals. Maybe that is because AZ already has a lot of draft capital and might not want to risk losing MHJ to San Diego. I also wonder if Minnesota tried and failed to move up to #5. It might be #3 or bust for Minnesota.
The Giants may have no other option except to stand pat.
(1) They made their best offer to NE and were rejected.
(2) AZ won't trade down with anyone because they don't want to risk losing MHJ.
(3) SD wants too much to move back one spot, even though there is no risk they'd lose any player they want.
I also don't think the Vikings would prepare themselves for a teade like this unless they had a strong suspicion that the Patriots would indeed go through with the trade, like I said before it seems like NFL people basically think it's a given that CW and JD go 1-2. JD is my top rated qb in the draft so it makes perfect sense to me. JD's got a lot more in his tool box than Maye imo.
I agree with that. Minnesota might have intel that Washington indeed does like and will take Daniels. At that point, the "dominoes" start to fall into place. Minnesota trades up to #3 and takes Maye. AZ takes MHJ. SD takes whoever. The Giants take JJM. Denver takes Nix.
I think NE will get Nix whether they find they have to trade up or not I believe Nix is their guy since they can't get JD, hence the trade down to 11 ahead of the Broncos with far more draft capital to make sure they get him.
Quite possible.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
I'd venture to guess Maye isn't rated way above JJM, maybe they even like JJM slightly more. The attempt to trade up to 3 would have ensured them 1 of the two and avoided any surprise sniping from behind them. I think the Cardinals want an insane package for pick 4 so Schoen was just trying to ensure he got one of them. I agree if he had an extremely strong conviction in Maye then he would do what it took. Maybe it's the Vikings that have that conviction. Maybe Schoen actually was hoping the Vikings would make a crazy package to get up there so he didn't have to give up as much for JJM or Maye while still getting a guy he likes.
I don't know. I've heard they like both. Honestly, Chris Simms and Sy have me a bit worried about Maye, but he looks like the more prototypical NFL QB. On the other hand, I strongly suggest it was Giants who McCarthy wowed with his chalkboard work at the Combine.
Maye's 2022 season was considerably better than anything did McCarthy did at Michigan. Too many people are forgetting about that...
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If they have a conviction on Maye then accumulate more assets and make a new offer. If they have Maye rated similar to JJ then fine, but if not, make a stronger offer for the NE pick. We can probably trade Thibs for a late first this year to add to the deal if necessary.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
I'd venture to guess Maye isn't rated way above JJM, maybe they even like JJM slightly more. The attempt to trade up to 3 would have ensured them 1 of the two and avoided any surprise sniping from behind them. I think the Cardinals want an insane package for pick 4 so Schoen was just trying to ensure he got one of them. I agree if he had an extremely strong conviction in Maye then he would do what it took. Maybe it's the Vikings that have that conviction. Maybe Schoen actually was hoping the Vikings would make a crazy package to get up there so he didn't have to give up as much for JJM or Maye while still getting a guy he likes.
I really hope you're right BigBlue, I just don't want to end up getting jumped twice and having nothing but our dick in our hands at 6.
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I don't know. I've heard they like both. Honestly, Chris Simms and Sy have me a bit worried about Maye, but he looks like the more prototypical NFL QB. On the other hand, I strongly suggest it was Giants who McCarthy wowed with his chalkboard work at the Combine.
Maye's 2022 season was considerably better than anything did McCarthy did at Michigan. Too many people are forgetting about that...
Completely different offenses, completely different situations, I try to not get too caught up in stats for qb evaluations. I think Josh Allen's low completion percentage in college was a factor that made a lot of GMs look dumb passing on him. I don't think Maye is on the same level of McCarthy athletically or mentally personally. And this is shown in Mccarthy's much better numbers under pressure.
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In comment 16434394 LW_Giants said:
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If they have a conviction on Maye then accumulate more assets and make a new offer. If they have Maye rated similar to JJ then fine, but if not, make a stronger offer for the NE pick. We can probably trade Thibs for a late first this year to add to the deal if necessary.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
I'd venture to guess Maye isn't rated way above JJM, maybe they even like JJM slightly more. The attempt to trade up to 3 would have ensured them 1 of the two and avoided any surprise sniping from behind them. I think the Cardinals want an insane package for pick 4 so Schoen was just trying to ensure he got one of them. I agree if he had an extremely strong conviction in Maye then he would do what it took. Maybe it's the Vikings that have that conviction. Maybe Schoen actually was hoping the Vikings would make a crazy package to get up there so he didn't have to give up as much for JJM or Maye while still getting a guy he likes.
I really hope you're right BigBlue, I just don't want to end up getting jumped twice and having nothing but our dick in our hands at 6.
I imagine after Schoen offered a future 1st, pick 6 and more to the Patriots he won't hesitate to trade some later picks to ensure he gets his guy. I feel like Schoen is playing this very well.
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In comment 16434404 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16434394 LW_Giants said:
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If they have a conviction on Maye then accumulate more assets and make a new offer. If they have Maye rated similar to JJ then fine, but if not, make a stronger offer for the NE pick. We can probably trade Thibs for a late first this year to add to the deal if necessary.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
I'd venture to guess Maye isn't rated way above JJM, maybe they even like JJM slightly more. The attempt to trade up to 3 would have ensured them 1 of the two and avoided any surprise sniping from behind them. I think the Cardinals want an insane package for pick 4 so Schoen was just trying to ensure he got one of them. I agree if he had an extremely strong conviction in Maye then he would do what it took. Maybe it's the Vikings that have that conviction. Maybe Schoen actually was hoping the Vikings would make a crazy package to get up there so he didn't have to give up as much for JJM or Maye while still getting a guy he likes.
I really hope you're right BigBlue, I just don't want to end up getting jumped twice and having nothing but our dick in our hands at 6.
I imagine after Schoen offered a future 1st, pick 6 and more to the Patriots he won't hesitate to trade some later picks to ensure he gets his guy. I feel like Schoen is playing this very well.
Are you basing this on something you've heard or is this just what you believe based connecting the dots?
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In comment 16434406 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16434404 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16434394 LW_Giants said:
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If they have a conviction on Maye then accumulate more assets and make a new offer. If they have Maye rated similar to JJ then fine, but if not, make a stronger offer for the NE pick. We can probably trade Thibs for a late first this year to add to the deal if necessary.
I just think if you have a conviction on someone, then go get that person.
I'd venture to guess Maye isn't rated way above JJM, maybe they even like JJM slightly more. The attempt to trade up to 3 would have ensured them 1 of the two and avoided any surprise sniping from behind them. I think the Cardinals want an insane package for pick 4 so Schoen was just trying to ensure he got one of them. I agree if he had an extremely strong conviction in Maye then he would do what it took. Maybe it's the Vikings that have that conviction. Maybe Schoen actually was hoping the Vikings would make a crazy package to get up there so he didn't have to give up as much for JJM or Maye while still getting a guy he likes.
I really hope you're right BigBlue, I just don't want to end up getting jumped twice and having nothing but our dick in our hands at 6.
I imagine after Schoen offered a future 1st, pick 6 and more to the Patriots he won't hesitate to trade some later picks to ensure he gets his guy. I feel like Schoen is playing this very well.
Are you basing this on something you've heard or is this just what you believe based connecting the dots?
Well, I heard from an asshat here that we put all our chips on the table for the Pats saying take it or leave it. That offer had to include our 2025 1st and 2nd along with pick 6 or something along those lines. After avoiding going into a full blown bidding war, I don't see Schoen batting an eye at a slight trade up to get the qb he views as worthy of top 5.
New England still wants a QB and the Giants (6) as a trade partner are ideal for them compared to Minny (11). I could see the NYG getting the 3rd pick and the Pats getting doing the following in this scenario:
-Justin Fields could still get dealt to a team like the Raiders after or during the draft itself for something like a 3rd pick or something, but that's neither here nor there.
2. Washington: QB, Jaylen Daniels
-Rumor is that Peters likes Maye but their O.C. Kingsbury likes Daniels. Everything hinges on this pick. If Daniels gets picked here, then it's game on for the Giants and Pats.
3. Pats trade to NYG: NYG pick QB, Drake Maye
-Giants trade their 1st and 3rd picks in 2025 along with their 2nd rounder this year to New England in order to move form 6 to 3 to make this selection. Giants have targeted him for a while now. Pats would be fine with one of either JJM or Nix in his place in addition to adding extra picks. 6 is better for New England than 11 in order for them to get a QB. Something Minny can't do anything about unless they deal up to 5 before the draft.
4. Arizona: WR, Marvin Harrison, Jr.
-Arizona wants him. Plain and simple. No reason to get cute here for them.
5. Chargers trade to Patriots: Patriots pick either QB, JJM or QB, Bo Nix
-Pats trade their second rounder (#34 overall and second in the 2nd round) to secure one of the two remaining QBs. Going down to 11 does not do this for them. They also have the Giants' 1st and 3rd rounders next year as well as the Giants' 2nd rounder this year to work with making this slight trade-up doable.
6. Chargers: Pick WR, Malik Nabers
-The Chargers get an elite WR to add to Herbert's arsenal. They also get the 34th overall pick and get a chance to choose a strong RT with the 2nd overall pick in the 2nd round, #34 overall. A guy like Kingsley Suamataia from BYU would fill in their hole at RT rather nicely. He'd be there for them there.
In this scenario the Giants get their guy and the Pats pick up some picks and still get a QB they like. This would still leave one of Bo Nix or JJM out there for Minnesota to climb up for from 11. Any of the team from 7 to 10 would make good trade partners for them (Tennessee at 7, Atlanta at 8, Chicago at 9, or the Jets at 10). In this scenario one of Denver or Minnesota will be left out in the cold regarding acquiring a QB. Minnesota has more to offer teams (11 and 23) than the Broncos do (12).
I want to know how the Pats have JJM and Nix ranked in comparison to each other. In any case, I still think the Giants are in this to get tup to pick #3. The Bills made two trades to climb up to get Josh Allen in 2018. This is just the first step. I still like the Giants' chances with the Pats since New England can drop three spots and still get one of Nix or JJM. Dealing with Minnesota at 11 can't guarantee that.
The YouTube version of his podcast from yesterday is linked below.
The segment starts at 24:20.
I hope the Giants won't be jumped by another team, so they can at least go to the 4th spot and we won't have to worry.
Link - ( New Window )
Completely different offenses, completely different situations, I try to not get too caught up in stats for qb evaluations. I think Josh Allen's low completion percentage in college was a factor that made a lot of GMs look dumb passing on him. I don't think Maye is on the same level of McCarthy athletically or mentally personally. And this is shown in Mccarthy's much better numbers under pressure.
Maye is a great athlete. He run for nearly 650+ in 2022 on top of his stellar passing. I'm not sure you don't have it backwards.
I say it time and time again, I have no idea how to say McCarthy is this superior astute QB to the field. That means nothing on Sundays where the NFL is a much different game. According to reports, Mayfield was a savant on the board during the Combine his draft year. And while he's improving, no one is confusing him with Peyton Manning with his cerebral play in the NFL.
At some point, you have to look at stats. I don't know, for example, how anyone can look at Daniels's year at LSU and not say is epically great. I don't care what his "offense" was in the SEC.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
I would love to be in Vegas and sit down at a poker table with the Maras and akin.
Again, you are incorrectly interpreting the situation.
The YouTube version of his podcast from yesterday is linked below.
The segment starts at 24:20.
I hope the Giants won't be jumped by another team, so they can at least go to the 4th spot and we won't have to worry. Link - ( New Window )
I agree with this. I can't see NE trading out of 3. AZ and LA are the possible move up spots for teams looking for the 4th QB.
Nightmare scenario that can EASILY occur since I can see New England holding onto the 3rd overall pick and choosing Maye or Daniels.
There's a VERY REAL chance that the Giants wind up getting Cedric Jones's a la 1996. I'm sure some of you degenerates out there remember that mess when we thought we were getting Jonathan Ogden and didn't.
Nightmare scenario that can EASILY occur since I can see New England holding onto the 3rd overall pick and choosing Maye or Daniels.
There's a VERY REAL chance that the Giants wind up getting Cedric Jones's a la 1996. I'm sure some of you degenerates out there remember that mess when we thought we were getting Jonathan Ogden and didn't.
If this happens Giants should trade down and just accumulate future draft assets because we'll be back looking for a QB in the 2025 draft.
New England still wants a QB and the Giants (6) as a trade partner are ideal for them compared to Minny (11). I could see the NYG getting the 3rd pick and the Pats getting doing the following in this scenario:
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1. Bears: QB, Caleb Williams
-Justin Fields could still get dealt to a team like the Raiders after or during the draft itself for something like a 3rd pick or something, but that's neither here nor there.
2. Washington: QB, Jaylen Daniels
-Rumor is that Peters likes Maye but their O.C. Kingsbury likes Daniels. Everything hinges on this pick. If Daniels gets picked here, then it's game on for the Giants and Pats.
3. Pats trade to NYG: NYG pick QB, Drake Maye
-Giants trade their 1st and 3rd picks in 2025 along with their 2nd rounder this year to New England in order to move form 6 to 3 to make this selection. Giants have targeted him for a while now. Pats would be fine with one of either JJM or Nix in his place in addition to adding extra picks. 6 is better for New England than 11 in order for them to get a QB. Something Minny can't do anything about unless they deal up to 5 before the draft.
4. Arizona: WR, Marvin Harrison, Jr.
-Arizona wants him. Plain and simple. No reason to get cute here for them.
5. Chargers trade to Patriots: Patriots pick either QB, JJM or QB, Bo Nix
-Pats trade their second rounder (#34 overall and second in the 2nd round) to secure one of the two remaining QBs. Going down to 11 does not do this for them. They also have the Giants' 1st and 3rd rounders next year as well as the Giants' 2nd rounder this year to work with making this slight trade-up doable.
6. Chargers: Pick WR, Malik Nabers
-The Chargers get an elite WR to add to Herbert's arsenal. They also get the 34th overall pick and get a chance to choose a strong RT with the 2nd overall pick in the 2nd round, #34 overall. A guy like Kingsley Suamataia from BYU would fill in their hole at RT rather nicely. He'd be there for them there.
In this scenario the Giants get their guy and the Pats pick up some picks and still get a QB they like. This would still leave one of Bo Nix or JJM out there for Minnesota to climb up for from 11. Any of the team from 7 to 10 would make good trade partners for them (Tennessee at 7, Atlanta at 8, Chicago at 9, or the Jets at 10). In this scenario one of Denver or Minnesota will be left out in the cold regarding acquiring a QB. Minnesota has more to offer teams (11 and 23) than the Broncos do (12).
I want to know how the Pats have JJM and Nix ranked in comparison to each other. In any case, I still think the Giants are in this to get tup to pick #3. The Bills made two trades to climb up to get Josh Allen in 2018. This is just the first step. I still like the Giants' chances with the Pats since New England can drop three spots and still get one of Nix or JJM. Dealing with Minnesota at 11 can't guarantee that.
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
Of the beats, Connor Hughes who has been ontop of things with the Giants this offseason (see Burns trade). Others in the national media have said the same. And I've heard privately they like Williams, Mayes, and McCarthy.
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In comment 16434310 Eric from BBI said:
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
Of the beats, Connor Hughes who has been ontop of things with the Giants this offseason (see Burns trade). Others in the national media have said the same. And I've heard privately they like Williams, Mayes, and McCarthy.
Eric have you heard if they're out on the NE pick because of a deal with the Vikings?
Call me crazy but every single day there’s been a different report of the Giants liking McCarthy. That doesn’t strike you as odd?
Call me crazy but every single day there’s been a different report of the Giants liking McCarthy. That doesn’t strike you as odd?
You mean like when we saw all the reports that the Giants liked DeVonta Smith? It's par for the course with this team.
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In comment 16434425 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16434310 Eric from BBI said:
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
Of the beats, Connor Hughes who has been ontop of things with the Giants this offseason (see Burns trade). Others in the national media have said the same. And I've heard privately they like Williams, Mayes, and McCarthy.
Eric have you heard if they're out on the NE pick because of a deal with the Vikings?
Who says NE has a deal with Minnesota? This is just speculation.
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In comment 16434454 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16434425 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16434310 Eric from BBI said:
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
Of the beats, Connor Hughes who has been ontop of things with the Giants this offseason (see Burns trade). Others in the national media have said the same. And I've heard privately they like Williams, Mayes, and McCarthy.
Eric have you heard if they're out on the NE pick because of a deal with the Vikings?
Who says NE has a deal with Minnesota? This is just speculation.
Agreed, but this thread has made some good points about the vikings likely making this trade only if they know from NE it'd get them 3.
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Fair enough Eric.
Call me crazy but every single day there’s been a different report of the Giants liking McCarthy. That doesn’t strike you as odd?
You mean like when we saw all the reports that the Giants liked DeVonta Smith? It's par for the course with this team.
Different regime. Almost nobody had Thibodeaux connected with the Giants.
Yep, this is my fear. Wish an asshat would weigh in on it.
That trade can easily be with the Chargers at 5.
Perhaps. But Daniel Jeremiah seems to believe from what he's hearing that they are staying at 3. Could the Vikings be thinking of a trade to 4 or 5?
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In comment 16434425 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16434310 Eric from BBI said:
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you wrote is spot on and valuable to consider.
The issue is the league knows the Giants like McCarthy. So if another team does too, they will try to move ahead at 4 and 5.
Not for nothing but you (and BBI as a whole) have no idea if the Giants like McCarthy. Who said this that would be seen as credible?
Of the beats, Connor Hughes who has been ontop of things with the Giants this offseason (see Burns trade). Others in the national media have said the same. And I've heard privately they like Williams, Mayes, and McCarthy.
Eric have you heard if they're out on the NE pick because of a deal with the Vikings?
Yes, I'm just reading the tea leaves here. I don't think the Vikings picked up that extra first just to have more ammo. I think it was done in response to negotiations with the Patriots. Again, this is just me reading the tea leaves. We would have to trade pick 6, pick 47, and a future 1st to come close to beating an offer of pick 11, 23 and 2025 1st plus a third. I just think the timing of one of our asshats saying we had made our best offer followed by the Vikings getting the extra first within about 24 hours seems too serendipitous a coincidence to not be related.
Again, this is connecting dots and reading the tea leaves based on insider reports and the Vikings getting an extra first rounder. Who knows what will happen, these are just my thoughts and predictions.
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Perhaps. But Daniel Jeremiah seems to believe from what he's hearing that they are staying at 3. Could the Vikings be thinking of a trade to 4 or 5?
Sure, but that even presents a bigger problem for us.
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In comment 16434465 Eric from BBI said:
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Perhaps. But Daniel Jeremiah seems to believe from what he's hearing that they are staying at 3. Could the Vikings be thinking of a trade to 4 or 5?
Sure, but that even presents a bigger problem for us.
Yes, this is worse than them trading with NE, bc this would leave us with zero option at a top rated QB.
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In comment 16434474 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 16434465 Eric from BBI said:
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Perhaps. But Daniel Jeremiah seems to believe from what he's hearing that they are staying at 3. Could the Vikings be thinking of a trade to 4 or 5?
Sure, but that even presents a bigger problem for us.
Yes, this is worse than them trading with NE, bc this would leave us with zero option at a top rated QB.
If the Vikings trade with AZ, yes I agree. But that brings up the possibility of a slight trade up with LA for a chance at MHjr.
We're already there and trying to climb out of it...
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Completely different offenses, completely different situations, I try to not get too caught up in stats for qb evaluations. I think Josh Allen's low completion percentage in college was a factor that made a lot of GMs look dumb passing on him. I don't think Maye is on the same level of McCarthy athletically or mentally personally. And this is shown in Mccarthy's much better numbers under pressure.
Maye is a great athlete. He run for nearly 650+ in 2022 on top of his stellar passing. I'm not sure you don't have it backwards.
I say it time and time again, I have no idea how to say McCarthy is this superior astute QB to the field. That means nothing on Sundays where the NFL is a much different game. According to reports, Mayfield was a savant on the board during the Combine his draft year. And while he's improving, no one is confusing him with Peyton Manning with his cerebral play in the NFL.
At some point, you have to look at stats. I don't know, for example, how anyone can look at Daniels's year at LSU and not say is epically great. I don't care what his "offense" was in the SEC.
JJM will run a 4.5 or better 40, he ran a 6.8 3 cone, good shuttle time, he will have a 9.9 ras score. Maye probably runs a 4.65 40 and an average 3 cone. I don't think Maye is in the same tier athletically as McCarthy. That's not to say Maye isn't a threat to run or isn't a good athlete. JJM is just borderline elite in his athleticism and it's severely underrated imo. The cerebral stuff I don't believe from reports, it's just a feeling I get from watching him play and watching him interviewed, then you hear he blows teams away in meetings and is far above the other top 4 qbs on the chalkboard and it just confirms what I've already felt in my gut about him.
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Yep, this is my fear. Wish an asshat would weigh in on it.
GoDeep13 commented on the Tonight's Internet Chatter thread that we had put all our chips on the table and basically told the Pats this is our best offer take it or leave it. That leads me to believe the Pats got a gage to set the bar for the Vikings and within 24 hours or so of this the Vikings went and got an extra first.
Perhaps, this deal is contingent on Daniels not being there for NE at 3, if he is there then deal may be off so they can't announce it until draft day.
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In comment 16434465 Eric from BBI said:
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Yep, this is my fear. Wish an asshat would weigh in on it.
GoDeep13 commented on the Tonight's Internet Chatter thread that we had put all our chips on the table and basically told the Pats this is our best offer take it or leave it. That leads me to believe the Pats got a gage to set the bar for the Vikings and within 24 hours or so of this the Vikings went and got an extra first.
Very possible or maybe NE has taken both teams best and final offers and is weighing them.
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question I have is if Minnesota was told by NE, AZ, or SD to get a second first round pick to be able to trade up, then why, since they just did so, haven't they already traded up to #3, #4, or #5 with the team that told them to get it? Why would Minnesota go get a second first round pick except to use as part of a package to trade up into the top five? Isn't the whole of dong that to get ahead of the Giants and guarantee themselves one of the "big four" QBs?
Perhaps, this deal is contingent on Daniels not being there for NE at 3, if he is there then deal may be off so they can't announce it until draft day.
But then Minnesota is taking the chance that the trade they made with Houston to get a second first round pick might not allow them to trade up into the top 5. That's a pretty big risk to take given what they paid to get #23. Why would they trade with Houston unless they were absolutely sure they could make the second trade right now?
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In comment 16434468 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16434465 Eric from BBI said:
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Yep, this is my fear. Wish an asshat would weigh in on it.
GoDeep13 commented on the Tonight's Internet Chatter thread that we had put all our chips on the table and basically told the Pats this is our best offer take it or leave it. That leads me to believe the Pats got a gage to set the bar for the Vikings and within 24 hours or so of this the Vikings went and got an extra first.
Very possible or maybe NE has taken both teams best and final offers and is weighing them.
NE would be taking a big risk IF they traded out of #3 all the way down to 11. There is no guarantee they get a QB of their liking there. I just don't see them taking that risk after dumping Mac Jones.
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-Justin Fields could still get dealt to a team like the Raiders after or during the draft itself for something like a 3rd pick or something, but that's neither here nor there.
2. Washington: QB, Jaylen Daniels
-Rumor is that their GM Peters likes Maye but their O.C. Kingsbury likes Daniels. Everything hinges on this pick. If Daniels gets picked here, then it's game on for the Giants and Pats.
3. Pats trade to NYG: NYG pick QB, Drake Maye
-Giants trade their 1st and 3rd picks in 2025 along with their 2nd rounder this year to New England in order to move up from 6 to 3 to make this selection. The Giants have targeted Maye for a while now. The Pats would be fine with one of either JJM or Nix in place of Maye in addition to adding extra picks. 6 is better for New England than 11 in order for them to get a QB. Something Minny can't do anything about unless they deal up to 5 before the draft, but even then it's not a nightmare scenario for tha Pats since they seem to like both JJM and Nix.
4. Arizona: WR, Marvin Harrison, Jr.
-Arizona wants him. Plain and simple. No reason to get cute here for them.
5. Chargers trade to Vikings: Vikings pick QB, JJ McCarthy
-The Vikes trade picks 11 and 23 to the Chargers in order to move up and take their QB of the future in this spot. Harbaugh is happy as can be since he can pick a RT like Taliese Fuaga at 11 and another impact player like WR Brian Thomas Jr. at 23.
6. Patriots: Pick QB, Bo Nix
-The Pats get their QB of the future despite the Vikes making a trade to get ahead of them at 5. If they like Nix as much as is being reported, the they come out winners here. They NEED to come out of this draft with a young QB. Trading down from this spot would be playing with fire with the QB starved Broncos and Raiders looming at 12 and 13 respectively. Get your QB and boatload of picks from the Giants--'24 2nd rounder, '25 1st rounder & '25 3rd rounder--and start your rebuild. They will be happy in this scenario though.
In this scenario, the Pats and Giants make their deal but the Pats get jumped by the Vikes at 5 with the Vikings dealing up to 5 with Harbaugh's Chargers. The Vikings take their future QB in JJM and leave Bo Nix on the board for New England at 6 still. The Pats are getting a young QB that their people like as well as three future assets from the Giants, mentioned previously. Now this scenario is with the vikings making the jump from 11 to 5 and the Pats making the deal with Giants we've all been speculating about going from 3 to 6.
In this scenario, Denver gets left out in the cold, unless they like Pennix in RD 1 of course. Denver and the Raiders pick 12th and 13th respectively in RD 1. I wonder if any of them bite on Pennix in this scenario. This situation also puts Justin Fields back into play after RD 1. The Bears can make some calls to teams that might be interested in Fields after the fog of the first round clears. If not after Day 1 (after RD 1) and before the start of Day 2, then after Day 2 (after RDs 2 & 3) and before the start of Day 3 (RDs 4 to 7). This has the potential to become wild.
Schoen, show us you mean it: "Scared money don't make money."
In this scenario, Denver gets left out in the cold, unless they like Pennix in RD 1 of course. Denver and the Raiders pick 12th and 13th respectively in RD 1. I wonder if any of them bite on Pennix in this scenario. This situation also puts Justin Fields back into play after RD 1. The Bears can make some calls to teams that might be interested in Fields after the fog of the first round clears. If not after Day 1 (after RD 1) and before the start of Day 2, then after Day 2 (after RDs 2 & 3) and before the start of Day 3 (RDs 4 to 7). This has the potential to become wild.
This would be awesome!
I presume it's not done until draft night on the minute chance JD is there for the Pats at 3 which is a tiny percentage of a chance to NFL insiders, but a chance nonetheless imo
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In comment 16434492 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16434468 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16434465 Eric from BBI said:
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the assumption is that the Vikes don't move up like they did today unless they have another deal in place.
Yep, this is my fear. Wish an asshat would weigh in on it.
GoDeep13 commented on the Tonight's Internet Chatter thread that we had put all our chips on the table and basically told the Pats this is our best offer take it or leave it. That leads me to believe the Pats got a gage to set the bar for the Vikings and within 24 hours or so of this the Vikings went and got an extra first.
Very possible or maybe NE has taken both teams best and final offers and is weighing them.
NE would be taking a big risk IF they traded out of #3 all the way down to 11. There is no guarantee they get a QB of their liking there. I just don't see them taking that risk after dumping Mac Jones.
That's EXACTLY my point with my previous two posts GMAN52. The Giants still are in a good position.
I think Minny is set to go to 5, not 3 with today's move. New England the Giants are ideal trading partners if NE isn't hot on Maye but has equal or similar grades on JJM & Bo Nix---one of which will be guaranteed to be there for them at 6 even if the Vikings jump them at 5 after making the Giants trade.
That's why I think what Daniel Jeremiah has heard is correct and they are staying put at #3. They have NO QB of worth now.
They could guarantee it with all the extra draft capital. Reports out of Denver suggest they don't plan on trading up at all. 11 would be a prime spot to get Nix whether they needed to trade up or not.
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is definitely taking a risk that they might miss out on a QB (Nix?) if they trade down to #11. They could try and trade up from #11, but there is no guarantee they would be able to do so.
They could guarantee it with all the extra draft capital. Reports out of Denver suggest they don't plan on trading up at all. 11 would be a prime spot to get Nix whether they needed to trade up or not.
Disagree. that would be playing with fire for the Pats. They need a QB just as badly as the Giants. There's a very real chance Nix gets picked before 11 or 12.
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is definitely taking a risk that they might miss out on a QB (Nix?) if they trade down to #11. They could try and trade up from #11, but there is no guarantee they would be able to do so.
They could guarantee it with all the extra draft capital. Reports out of Denver suggest they don't plan on trading up at all. 11 would be a prime spot to get Nix whether they needed to trade up or not.
I think it's a high likelihood they could trade up, maybe with Tennessee at #7, but there is still a chance they might not be able to do so.
This is why we need to keep the pressure on NE or Ariz to trade with us and send the package they cannot refuse as Godeep13 said.
We can't be sitting ducks. Jones/Lock/Devito qb room has no hope.
IF the Commandos take Maye then the Pats will take Daniels 3rd. That's easy. The Cardinals, picking 4th, will then choose WR Marvin Harrison, Jr. That's also really easy. The problem is the Chargers at 5.
I can easily see Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers choosing a deal from Minnesota over ours. The Vikings can give them picks 11 and 23 overall. The Giants can only give the Chargers their remaining 2nd rounder (#47 overall) for McCarthy realistically. It's a no-brainer for the Chargers. they've gotta take the Minnesota deal. Which would you prefer getting if you were the Chargers? Malik Nabers by himself or WR Bryan Thomas Jr. and RT Taliese Fuaga? I think it's pretty clear that Harbaugh and Joe Hortiz would prefer the latter over the former.
Bottom line: Pray that the Commanders don't pick Drake Maye second overall otherwise we're gonna get screwed.
Thanks! If you hear anything else, please let us know!
Offering our pick 6 is a wash since we are just swapping positions. Offering a '25 #1 and and few more lower round pick isn't enough. We just don't have the firepower to move up to 3
(1) GoDeep commented that the Giants were going to make the Pats say no. Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but that to me seems different than telling the Pats to take it or leave it, and rather seems to indicate that Schoen was/is going to keep offering stuff until the Pats definitively told him no. Maybe we are there, but that is how I interpreted GoDeep's comments.
(2) To that point, assuming Eliot Wolf is a rational actor, which might be a big assumption, it would seem to do him no good to effectively close the bidding and go with Minnesota's offer this far in advance of the draft. I agree with your read of the tea leaves that the Minnesota trade seems to coincide with an offer to New England, but I also think its equally possible that all that has happened is that Minnesota is in the lead and now the Giants need to go back and decide how and if they want to sweeten their offer. To me, it does New England no good not to keep the door open to all trade partners.
(3) There is also the possibility, albeit maybe small, that Minnesota doesn't 100% have a deal in place but was basically told they needed a second first rounder this year to even be in the consideration of trading up. From Minnesota's perspective, maybe they feel that if they don't get a deal done that second first rounder gives them the chance to grab someone like Penix or Nix, or trade up if they think Denver or Seattle might jump them for one of those guys.
(4) Finally, I think your thoughts on the Giants/Schoen liking multiple QBs, specifically Maye and McCarthy, somewhat equally is spot on. I listened to a podcast from Go Long that I posted on a different thread with as former Bills Scout who mentioned their whole process in 2018 and that basically they wanted one of Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen or Allen. This tracks with your thoughts that the Giants are probably looking at multiple guys.
But what evidence is there that the trade is with the Patriots rather than the Chargers?
We're already IN QB Hell.
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I was thinking of doing this myself, but you beat me to it. We need to to chit chat about this as well as who the Commanders prefer with the second overall pick: Maye or Danieks? That's another thread altogether though.
As far as Nix is concerned, I've heard that the Broncos, who are picking 12th, love him. I could see Demver trading ahead of the 11th pick to get to him, so the Pats might safer trading with the Giants at 6 to get their guy. I also wonder who the Pats prefer given the choice: JJM or Nix? Also, what do the Pats think of JJM?
I could EASILY see the Chargers trading back and acquiring more picks. Would the Vikes be willing to trade up to 5 to get JJM? I wonder if the Pats make a deal with the Giants instead for something like the Giants' 1st & 3rd picks next year & the Giants' 2nd rounder this year? The Pats could still take one of JJM or Nix at 6, whoever's there. The Cards look almost sure to be taking MHJr at 4 IMO.
I really think the Pats and Vikings have a deal on place. We would most likely have to overpay a bit to move up one spot with the Chargers if we want JJM, but I think Harbaugh wants a blue chip foundational building block player and I don't think he will bite on an offer from the Broncos or Raiders our anyone out of the top 10. We may have to trade a future 3rd and 5th or something along those lines, maybe more, but I think Schoen would ensure he gets JJM if he wants him (which it seems he does).
The Patriots could easily make a deal with the Falcons or Titans or Bears or Jets if they got word they needed to avoid being jumped for Nix. If they want Nix they can get him from 11 100% imo. I don't think AZ really wants to lose out on MHJ unless they were extremely overpaid, hence why I think the Vikings made the move for pick 23 and have something setup with the Patriots.
I see it going as follows:
1. Commanders trade something crazy for CW
2. Bears take Jayden Daniels
3. Vikings trade a king's ransom for DM
4. AZ takes MHJ
5. Giants trade future 3rd and 5thish JJM
6. Chargers take Odunze or Bowers or Alt, I think they go Odunze as Sewell is a solid left tackle and Harbaugh isn't dumb enough to take a right tackle this high
I can see this.
No matter what best case is only 3 QB needy teams ahead of NY. Pats picking QB and Vikings moving to 4 would be the nightmare.
+1
But what evidence is there that the trade is with the Patriots rather than the Chargers?
A. I don't think the Vikings would risk it to just do this for pick 5. Too many variables could go wrong for them that late.
B. The timing of the Vikings getting the extra 1st right after we told the Pats take or leave it seems too synchronous to be a coincidence.
C. I think the Vikings want Maye.
IF the Commandos take Maye then the Pats will take Daniels 3rd. That's easy. The Cardinals, picking 4th, will then choose WR Marvin Harrison, Jr. That's also really easy. The problem is the Chargers at 5.
I can easily see Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers choosing a deal from Minnesota over ours. The Vikings can give them picks 11 and 23 overall. The Giants can only give the Chargers their remaining 2nd rounder (#47 overall) for McCarthy realistically. It's a no-brainer for the Chargers. they've gotta take the Minnesota deal. Which would you prefer getting if you were the Chargers? Malik Nabers by himself or WR Bryan Thomas Jr. and RT Taliese Fuaga? I think it's pretty clear that Harbaugh and Joe Hortiz would prefer the latter over the former.
Bottom line: Pray that the Commanders don't pick Drake Maye second overall otherwise we're gonna get screwed.
Excellent analysis. I agree that the Chargers would be much more likely to trade with Minnesota than the Giants. Picks #11 and #23 are better than #47 even though making that trade means they miss out on Nabers and Odunze.
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If the Commanders take Drake Maye, then we might very well get screwed. I'm assuming that the Bears take Caleb Williams with the first overall pick. They're not trading it. That's silly talk. The Commanders have had rumors around them in which the GM wants Maye and their O.C. (Kingsbury) wants Daniels.
IF the Commandos take Maye then the Pats will take Daniels 3rd. That's easy. The Cardinals, picking 4th, will then choose WR Marvin Harrison, Jr. That's also really easy. The problem is the Chargers at 5.
I can easily see Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers choosing a deal from Minnesota over ours. The Vikings can give them picks 11 and 23 overall. The Giants can only give the Chargers their remaining 2nd rounder (#47 overall) for McCarthy realistically. It's a no-brainer for the Chargers. they've gotta take the Minnesota deal. Which would you prefer getting if you were the Chargers? Malik Nabers by himself or WR Bryan Thomas Jr. and RT Taliese Fuaga? I think it's pretty clear that Harbaugh and Joe Hortiz would prefer the latter over the former.
Bottom line: Pray that the Commanders don't pick Drake Maye second overall otherwise we're gonna get screwed.
Excellent analysis. I agree that the Chargers would be much more likely to trade with Minnesota than the Giants. Picks #11 and #23 are better than #47 even though making that trade means they miss out on Nabers and Odunze.
The Chargers need a WR bad. Trading with the Vikings is not going to allow them a chance at Nabers or Odunze.
This thread is about why the Patriots would want to trade pick 3, why the Vikings obtained an extra 1st, and with who. the Vikings might be planning to strike a deal.
It is not a thread about preferring JJM for the Giants.
So let's get back to the topic. Why do you think the Vikings got that extra 1st? Do you think they have a preliminary deal in place? Who do you think their target is?
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to discuss how some posters mostly want JJ to go to the Giants.
So let's get back to the topic. Why do you think the Vikings got that extra 1st? Do you think they have a preliminary deal in place? Who do you think their target is?
Yes very likely they got the extra first as dry powder to move up again for a QB.
No they don’t have a prelim deal in place. Besides, you either have a deal or you don’t. There is no preliminary. That would be called “just talk”.
Have no idea which guy is their target. Just like nobody on this site knows definitely what any team’s first target is. That is just silly as you should just realize some teams will have a ranked order of them all, some teams may have a ranking of a subset, and some may only prefer one guy.
But carry on with hoping JJ comes to the NYG. That only helps us improve on from Jones but not much else imv.
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In comment 16435067 ThomasG said:
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to discuss how some posters mostly want JJ to go to the Giants.
So let's get back to the topic. Why do you think the Vikings got that extra 1st? Do you think they have a preliminary deal in place? Who do you think their target is?
Yes very likely they got the extra first as dry powder to move up again for a QB.
No they don’t have a prelim deal in place. Besides, you either have a deal or you don’t. There is no preliminary. That would be called “just talk”.
Have no idea which guy is their target. Just like nobody on this site knows definitely what any team’s first target is. That is just silly as you should just realize some teams will have a ranked order of them all, some teams may have a ranking of a subset, and some may only prefer one guy.
But carry on with hoping JJ comes to the NYG. That only helps us improve on from Jones but not much else imv.
My dream has been Jayden Daniels to the Giants since last October. Preliminary deals are commonplace. If Daniels isn't there, then the Vikings have an agreement with the Patriots would be the preliminary deal. If Daniels is there then I'd imagine the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Chargers and would be ready to go to plan B. I don't have any horse in this race. I do want the NYG to get a QB from the top 4, but other than that I trust Schoen n Co as they know much more than me. I'm open to all options, trading pick 6, 47 and a future 1st plus would be very risky but if we did it I would be excited with a new QB in whom we had strong conviction. If we stood pat and a QB fell to us at 5 or 6 then that would be nice too. If we got Cedric Jones'ed and missed on all 4 top qbs then I would be upset sure, but that's how it goes and the uncertainty is part of the fun.
What do you predict will happen in the top 6 picks after the Vikings got that extra 1st? That's the discussion here, not about personal preferences. Genuinely, what do you predict?
Absolutely, it would be a bold and risky move. I don't think they would do such drastic maneuvers if they didn't have a particular guy targeted myself. Maybe they like Maye and JJM close to equally and just want to ensure they get one of them. Who knows? I personally think they have something going with the Patriots to the tune of pick 11, pick 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. And a backup plan for them would be to trade up with the Chargers if Daniels fell to the Patriots.
Agreed, a preliminary deal is just the current best offer until any deal is done. Nevertheless, I want to know what you think happens in the top 6 picks as it stands right now. Whats your forecast?
Teams don’t just blindly trade up into arbitrary spots in the draft order without a plan.
The Vikings clearly have one. We’ll just have to wait to see where they hope to land.
On Friday, the Vikings sent a couple of second-rounders to the Houston Texans as part of a package for the No. 23 pick in April. Now, the Vikings have Nos. 11 and 23 in the opening round.
The Vikings lost quarterback Kirk Cousins to the Atlanta Falcons in free agency, and they were outbid in part because they were wary about making a long-term commitment to a quarterback who will turn 36 before the season.
To put it another way, the Vikings were already hoping to get younger at quarterback, and now they have no choice.
So now the Vikings have the assets to move up even higher, but where’s the sweet spot? Just a guess, but the Commanders (No. 2) and the New England Patriots (No. 3) probably won’t want to move all the way back to No. 11, miss a quarterback and likely be out of the mix for a top-tier wide receiver and left tackle. Or at least, the Vikings are really, really going to have to convince one of those teams with a decisively strong trade offer.
However, there might be a more obvious spot at No. 4, where the Arizona Cardinals have been open for business. And remember the 2023 draft, when the Cardinals traded No. 3 to the Texans for a package that included No. 12 and a first-rounder in 2024.
The Cardinals’ new regime of general manager Monti Ossenfort and coach Jonathan Gannon has committed to quarterback Kyler Murray. And during their year on the job, they’ve added physical, smart players who will make the Cardinals a tough out even as they rebuild. It’s similar to the way Ossenfort’s former Patriots co-worker, Texans general manager Nick Caserio, rounded out that roster before a more aggressive approach in 2023.
Point being, the Cardinals may welcome another trade down the board to accumulate more first-rounders as they attempt to assemble difference-makers around Murray.
The fourth pick may not help the Vikings land USC’s Caleb Williams, North Carolina’s Drake Maye or LSU’s Jayden Daniels. But if they’re high enough on Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy, the Vikings might have just taken a necessary step toward their long-term solution at QB.
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Trades brewing
Teams don’t just blindly trade up into arbitrary spots in the draft order without a plan.
The Vikings clearly have one. We’ll just have to wait to see where they hope to land.
On Friday, the Vikings sent a couple of second-rounders to the Houston Texans as part of a package for the No. 23 pick in April. Now, the Vikings have Nos. 11 and 23 in the opening round.
The Vikings lost quarterback Kirk Cousins to the Atlanta Falcons in free agency, and they were outbid in part because they were wary about making a long-term commitment to a quarterback who will turn 36 before the season.
To put it another way, the Vikings were already hoping to get younger at quarterback, and now they have no choice.
So now the Vikings have the assets to move up even higher, but where’s the sweet spot? Just a guess, but the Commanders (No. 2) and the New England Patriots (No. 3) probably won’t want to move all the way back to No. 11, miss a quarterback and likely be out of the mix for a top-tier wide receiver and left tackle. Or at least, the Vikings are really, really going to have to convince one of those teams with a decisively strong trade offer.
However, there might be a more obvious spot at No. 4, where the Arizona Cardinals have been open for business. And remember the 2023 draft, when the Cardinals traded No. 3 to the Texans for a package that included No. 12 and a first-rounder in 2024.
The Cardinals’ new regime of general manager Monti Ossenfort and coach Jonathan Gannon has committed to quarterback Kyler Murray. And during their year on the job, they’ve added physical, smart players who will make the Cardinals a tough out even as they rebuild. It’s similar to the way Ossenfort’s former Patriots co-worker, Texans general manager Nick Caserio, rounded out that roster before a more aggressive approach in 2023.
Point being, the Cardinals may welcome another trade down the board to accumulate more first-rounders as they attempt to assemble difference-makers around Murray.
The fourth pick may not help the Vikings land USC’s Caleb Williams, North Carolina’s Drake Maye or LSU’s Jayden Daniels. But if they’re high enough on Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy, the Vikings might have just taken a necessary step toward their long-term solution at QB.
I believe the reports that AZ really likes MHJ and that the Patriots pick is for sale if Daniels isn't there. These are based on what NFL front office folks have heard and said. Also, the Patriots reportedly really like Nix. He might even be in the same tier for them as Maye and JJM.
The Cardinals would lose not only MHJ in this trade, but Nabers and Odunze too. I think the only spot the Cardinals would trade down to is with us if they liked Odunze and Nabers enough. They also got shafted on that deal with the Texans, getting pick 27 when they expected a top 15 pick, then Will Anderson jr ends up looking elite already. You think they pass up the chance for MHJ, and Nabers/Odunze for more picks and a roll of the dice when they already have tons of draft capital and their trade last year ended up being much less than they hoped? I just can't see it. It's either the Pats or Chargers imo, and I think it's the Pats myself. The ball is in Schoen's court if he wants to sweeten the pot on what was reportedly his best offer imo. Sorry just copy and pasted my reply to this from the draft value chart thread.
Howe might be good with Pats info, but he isn't saying he thinks they stay at 3 based on any information, seems like that is just his opinion there? He just says the Patriots probably don't want to move all the way down to 11. Reports based on actual information of NFL front office folks and scouts suggested the Pats aren't big on Maye and the pick is for sale if Daniels isn't there. There have also been reports that the Pats like Nix a lot, it makes a lot more sense with the Patriots than the Cardinals imo. Who is the wr the Cardinals like a lot to pivot to at 11? Brian Thomas Jr? Seems like a big shift from the best prospect in the draft to a one trick pony.
Just my thoughts, T-40days...