Got traded for a higher pick than that. That is absolutely unreal. I cannot believe Shoen preferred lock for 5 million over Fields for a sixth and 1.6 million.
Not understanding this Fields love. He's like a younger version of Daniel Jones.
There is no love. His upside is insanely higher and for essentially cheaper than Lock. Crazy............
Yeah except he's a free agent at the end of the year. So if he plays decent you're stuck paying him Baker Mayfield/Daniel Jones money for 1 decent year in the NFL.
There's a recent they couldn't get more than a conditional 6th round pick for him.
I can't get over how bad-& it's fucking bad-the '21 QB draft class was. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Mac Jones...those are top 15-FIFTEEN!-picks who are no longer with the team that drafted them.
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
RE: ok and a younger version of Daniel Jones isn't worth a 6th rounder?
11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
True although I think Chicago would've continued on with him if they didn't have Carolina's pick. By all accounts, the org still likes him but not enough to pass up taking a prospect of Caleb's caliber.
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
I can't get over how bad-& it's fucking bad-the '21 QB draft class was. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Mac Jones...those are top 15-FIFTEEN!-picks who are no longer with the team that drafted them.
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
And it’s about to repeat itself this year.
if justin fields becomes a franchise QB or becomes a solid QB
I can't get over how bad-& it's fucking bad-the '21 QB draft class was. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Mac Jones...those are top 15-FIFTEEN!-picks who are no longer with the team that drafted them.
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
3 years from now that could be the same conversation about this draft. You never know.
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
there a middle ground. jordan love just did that deal.
Daboll was hired in part for his skill at developing QBs. You have to figure Schoen spoke to Daboll and asked “whaddya think? Can you fix him?” and Dabs said “Maybe but I don’t love what I’m seeing on tape. I say pass. Get one of the college guys we’ve talked about.”
I am no expert on QBs but Chicago started playing pretty well down the stretch. Once Eberflus was brought back I figured Fields would be safe another year and the Bears would continue to work the draft to build their roster out in the short term with Fields and then either commit to him, or have enough draft resources stockpiled to get their QB when they’re ready.
RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
Was a rule that existed before NFL coaches went out of their way to cater to college QBs schematically and make it easier than ever to make the leap to pro offenses.
A QB that can play earlier means he's playing on a cost controlled rookie deal. It's a competitive advantage.
The 4 year scholarship is dead.
RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
Daboll was hired in part for his skill at developing QBs. You have to figure Schoen spoke to Daboll and asked “whaddya think? Can you fix him?” and Dabs said “Maybe but I don’t love what I’m seeing on tape. I say pass. Get one of the college guys we’ve talked about.”
I don’t know who they like in the college ranks.
theres cost/benefit/risk analysis...6th overall pick vs 6th round pick
As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
RE: RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
I believe he's talking about two years ago when the Giants didn't pick up his option.
I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
Daboll was hired in part for his skill at developing QBs. You have to figure Schoen spoke to Daboll and asked “whaddya think? Can you fix him?” and Dabs said “Maybe but I don’t love what I’m seeing on tape. I say pass. Get one of the college guys we’ve talked about.”
I don’t know who they like in the college ranks.
theres cost/benefit/risk analysis...6th overall pick vs 6th round pick
I'll take my chances with a high draft pick and as we see so will just about every NFL team
RE: RE: RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
I believe he's talking about two years ago when the Giants didn't pick up his option.
Steelers got a high upside lottery ticket. Feels like Schoen is asleep at the wheel.
no way.
schoen was not asleep.
he must have actively said no this.
CHI was calling everyone and anyone about fields.
they didnt beleive in justin fields as a franchise QB.full stop.
that evaluation of fields, the evaluation of Daniel Jones to give him that contract, and the evaluation of the 6th overall pick and the 4 top qbs this year will ultimately make or break schoen/daboll careers as HC/GM. the way the nfl is going you dont get second chances especially as a GM.
thats one thing people dont realize. while daboll is more likely to get fired, daboll is way more likely to get another HC job again. GMs rarely second chances. Look at Jerry Reese/Thomas Dimitroff etc. was schocked Telesco got a 2nd shot, that's why he took a job so fast after he got fired, because its rare to get another top job.
I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
To be fair to the Giants Jones has/had shown more than Fields or Pickett.
Also the scenarios are completely different. The Giants haven't really had the chance to replace Jones until this year. We didn't have the #1 overall pick like the Bears did. We didn't have a chance to sign a solid Super Bowl winning QB for the vet minimum whole his previous team pays him nearly 40 million.
My lack of Fields love aside, if given the option of trading a sixth for Justin or having a QB room consisting solely of Jones-Lock-Devito, I'm going the former.
Then again, this is the year DJ puts it all together. & if not, there's always 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2050, 2062, 2089.
I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
To be fair to the Giants Jones has/had shown more than Fields or Pickett.
Also the scenarios are completely different. The Giants haven't really had the chance to replace Jones until this year. We didn't have the #1 overall pick like the Bears did. We didn't have a chance to sign a solid Super Bowl winning QB for the vet minimum whole his previous team pays him nearly 40 million.
Jones has shown less than Fields. Jones can only function in a dink and dunk offense. He can't throw the ball downfield. Fields has shown he can function a bit in a normal, verical offense. Maybe not well enough. But he's still a work in progress. Jones is not a work in progress. He's a backuo.
He looked better at the end of the year, had his home crowd chanting for him, probably thought he had some momentum and confidence to build on going into this season… then gets traded for cheap to be a backup.
I'll agree that they're different. We have an owner who has publicly gone out of his way to prop up/make excuses for Jones & we did-unlike the Bears with Fields-make the playoffs with Jones behind center.
'22 was a fun season. I enjoyed it, the final game aside. But it really might have been a curse long term. The Giants brass-IMO-got way ahead of themselves with where this team was competing with the big boys.
RE: RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
It remains to be seen if this regime can recover from that mistake.
Both of you stop this bullshit.
Fields threw half of his 2023 TDs against the team that was dead last in points allowed and against another team the week after they allowed 70 points.
Why do people bother with these horseshit idiotic comparisons?? The situations weren’t remotely similar.
Fields has been out there forever. All this says is that there wasn’t any interest. Not just from Giants, but from the entire league.
Whatever you say, champ. Last I checked, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the best organizations with one of the better rosters in the league. You think they're in the mood to waste a QB spot on a nobody? Fields is tapped to start for them at some point in the future. That means he has value in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
It remains to be seen if this regime can recover from that mistake.
Both of you stop this bullshit.
Fields threw half of his 2023 TDs against the team that was dead last in points allowed and against another team the week after they allowed 70 points.
Why do people bother with these horseshit idiotic comparisons?? The situations weren’t remotely similar.
Learn to read.
I don't think he played "very well" in the latter part of 23
Fields has been out there forever. All this says is that there wasn’t any interest. Not just from Giants, but from the entire league.
It makes you wonder with all the QB needy teams what they saw and didn't like to make a play for Fields. Why wouldn't the Patriots make that trade unless they were definitely drafting a QB they felt that would be a better investment than just having Jacoby Brissett.
Steelers got a high upside lottery ticket. Feels like Schoen is asleep at the wheel.
High upside based on what? His draft position?
He's been injured for 20% of his games in his career. He's barely completing 60% of his passes and he has 30 INTs and 38 fumbles in 40 career games.
He's got a cannon for an arm. He's a top 2 QB runner, and he played very well the last part of 2023.
Very well? Stop that.
The last 7 games of the season he completed 62% of his passes (3 games under 58%) averaging 194 passing yards with 5 TDs and 3 INTs. He also averaged 59 yards rushing with 3 rushing TDs and 6 fumbles.
So in 7 games he had 8 total TDs with 3 INTs & 6 fumbles.
Fields has been out there forever. All this says is that there wasn’t any interest. Not just from Giants, but from the entire league.
Whatever you say, champ. Last I checked, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the best organizations with one of the better rosters in the league. You think they're in the mood to waste a QB spot on a nobody? Fields is tapped to start for them at some point in the future. That means he has value in the NFL.
LOL. Great take. A leave full of WB needy teams and all he can fetch is a 6 round. The price was next to nothing. Those are the facts dude. What a shitty take LOL.
I don't get people losing their mind over this. Justin Fields isn't that good of a QB. If he was, he'd fetch more than a sixth round pick. Can he be a good QB in the right situation/system? Perhaps. I remember-as a youngin'-Steve Young sucking in Tampa before he transformed into a 2X NFL MVP/Super Bowl MVP. Can Fields have the same trajectory? Sure, but I'd put the odds of that happening the same as Michael Jordan & Isiah Thomas meeting up for dinner tonight.
I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
you trade the QB when you figure out they are not the man while they are on their rookie deal so the contract can be easily absorbed so you can get something in return.
Meanwhile the Giants are stuck with the albatross Jones deal that nobody would ever take on.
They also mismanaged Saquon and not dealing him. Lost opportunities will keep a team stuck in the back of the pack as we are, deservedly so.
I'll agree that they're different. We have an owner who has publicly gone out of his way to prop up/make excuses for Jones & we did-unlike the Bears with Fields-make the playoffs with Jones behind center.
'22 was a fun season. I enjoyed it, the final game aside. But it really might have been a curse long term. The Giants brass-IMO-got way ahead of themselves with where this team was competing with the big boys.
A million percent it was a curse long term, but they won games in 2022. There's really nothing they could have done besides what they did do. Unfortunately that's just the way it worked out. This year is seemingly the first year they can move off of Jones with legit QB options and it sure looks like they are going to do it.
RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
Make the Giants Great Again
Lol. We should try to get this to stick. MGGA.
RE: RE: Giants should have done what the Bears just did
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
Could not agree with you more Jon. Steelers just radically upgraded the quarterback position for virtually nothing. Brilliant sequence of moves.
JonC means they should have dealt Daniel Jones when he still had a year left on his deal. I think. JonC can confirm. If yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
It's easy to say, but the QB options weren't there like they were for the Bears or even the Steelers.
The Bears lucked into the #1 overall pick with a bunch of very good QBs available. The Steelers signed a Super Bowl winning QB for 1.2 million because his previous team is paying him nearly 40 million. That's why they moved off of Fields & Pickett. Also same thing with the Cardinals and Rosen. If the Bears & Cardinals weren't picking #1 overall they wouldn't have moved off of Fields or Rosen. If the Steelers didn't have Russ willing to sign for 1.2 million they wouldn't have moved off of Pickett.
The Giants didn't really have that opportunity like those three teams. What QB options were available to the Giants in the 2021, 2022 & 2023 Draft? What free agent were available for 1.2 million?
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
Exactly. The Giants didn't have the #1 pick staring them in the face like the Bears do. Hypothetically if the Giants went into the 2021 Draft with the #1 overall pick. Do people really think they wouldn't have selected Trevor Lawrence? Of course they would have.
Unfortunately due to the players available in the NFL Draft the Giants weren't able to move off of Jones. This is the 1st year they've really been able to and it sure looks like they are going to.
Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
Justin Fields just got as soon as it became clear Giants passed on him. Imo, no reason to give up anything for him unless you think he's the future at QB. The Bears certainly didn't. Let's see if the Steelers pick up his option.
Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
It's not a long term plan, it's a one year roll of the dice. Projection are that 2025 isn't a QB draft anyway, and if you believe that, there's no reason not to take a spin on an aging star trying to re-establish himself and a lottery pick that has some potential to unlock. And you did it for less than 3m total salary and a 6th round pick.
Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
I still think it is. They replaced Pickett and Rudolph with Wilson and Fields. Wilson is playing for $1.21 million IIRC. Fields could be a decent spot starter. Who else was available? They have to prepare to compete this season. Those two QBs give them a chance to do so for almost nothing.
Justin Fields just got as soon as it became clear Giants passed on him. Imo, no reason to give up anything for him unless you think he's the future at QB. The Bears certainly didn't. Let's see if the Steelers pick up his option.
I haven't been on Twitter, but my buddy just text me and told me that Fields won't be competing for the starting position according to Twitter. So I find it highly unlikely they pick up his 5th year option.
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
If the Giants had moved on from Jones in March 2022, we'd be in far better shape.
Justin Fields just got as soon as it became clear Giants passed on him. Imo, no reason to give up anything for him unless you think he's the future at QB. The Bears certainly didn't. Let's see if the Steelers pick up his option.
I haven't been on Twitter, but my buddy just text me and told me that Fields won't be competing for the starting position according to Twitter. So I find it highly unlikely they pick up his 5th year option.
It'll almost certainly be Wilson until/if he falls on his face, but at some point Fields will probaby get to play if only to demonstrate any value.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
This is like asking if someone should have bought Apple or Xerox in 2005. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight.
It's not always hindsight. Paying a player based on one successful season has burned the Giants twice in 5 years.
The first one was Leonard Williams, the second was Jones. Back when we had common sense, we would have been a little hesitant to throw $100 million dollar contracts out to one year wonders.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
As others have noted, Justin Fields didn’t play particularly well this season nor did he even win any games by happenstance in order to make this a particularly difficult decision.
The contract is NOT 160 million dollars. Jones contract is the only one I’ve seen in which people ignore the guaranteed money because that number isn’t sexy enough to make nonsensical claims. The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Bingo.
RE: RE: Never understood the media love for Fields
He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
I do agree he hasn't had the benefit of strong offensive coaching. Maybe Arthur Smith could help. It does say a lot about his market that teams wouldn't give up a 6th. Philly opted for Pickett.
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
Wow, what a bust SD is considering his draft position. Just goes to show.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Not even remotely true. The Giants were a fraud in 2022.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Not even remotely true. The Giants were a fraud in 2022.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I do agree he hasn't had the benefit of strong offensive coaching. Maybe Arthur Smith could help. It does say a lot about his market that teams wouldn't give up a 6th. Philly opted for Pickett.
I said it earlier. I am stunned that the less mobile, noodle-armed, glove wearing, 6.3 YPA Pickett generated better comp.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
And?
The fact remains the FO and organization would’ve been skewered by the media and the vast majority of the fans by Halloween if they let them walk last off-season. Which is why they hedged by being able to get away from Jones/Barkley relatively pain free if needed. Which is what they’re doing now.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
And?
The fact remains the FO and organization would’ve been skewered by the media and the vast majority of the fans by Halloween if they let them walk last off-season. Which is why they hedged by being able to get away from Jones/Barkley relatively pain free if needed. Which is what they’re doing now.
Whether or not the fans and media like it is no way to run a franchise anyway. The Giants have no problem doing deeply unpopular things when they want to. The fans wanted Gettleman gone after 3 horrid years. They didn't care then what the fans thought or wanted. When the Giants want to do a thing, they will do it. It just so happens that 9 times out of then they are stubborn about making the wrong decisions.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Rewind to 2022. Schoen and Daboll come in. Two guys outside of the organization. We all yelled, "hooray, Mara finally broke with his ways! We're finally going to tear it down and start over!"
Everyone expected Jones was gone. Fans were even predicting Tyrod would be the starter by midseason.
So no, it wasn't preordained.
The worst thing that happened? Daboll and his staff got this team to really overachieve.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
As others have noted, Justin Fields didn’t play particularly well this season nor did he even win any games by happenstance in order to make this a particularly difficult decision.
The contract is NOT 160 million dollars. Jones contract is the only one I’ve seen in which people ignore the guaranteed money because that number isn’t sexy enough to make nonsensical claims. The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
It doesn't matter. Jones was not the answer. They would have been in a better position. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in his first year. Guess what the Giants are giving Jones this year? It's more than that.
RE: RE: Never understood the media love for Fields
He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
Head more important than the talent piece. DJ > Fields. I know how much you disagree. The ten cent head, I have contempt for. Just can’t.
Jones doesn't have a ten cent head?
No, not at all Terps. That is not Jones’ issue. Fields was just traded for nothing by the team that gave up a lot to draft him and knew the most about him, neither did he have career threatening injuries.
Jones got a second contract for a reason and then shit happened.
Jones greater than Fields. Not my opinion, it is just obvious.
What a bargain compared to some other QB moves this off-season. Regardless if you think he's basically DJones 2.0, getting him for a 6th rounder is better than paying Drew Lock $5M. Both would've been reclamation projects for Dabs but JF has the higher ceiling. Plus it wouldn't have prohibited Schoen from taking a QB if a guy like Maye fell to us at #6 overall. It's a low risk, potentially high reward for minimal cost move that would've been positively received by many had Schoen made the move instead of Pittsburgh.
If the Eagles made this trade instead of the Pickett trade, everybody would've been falling all over themselves praising the move as savvy by Howie Roseman.
And Chicago will be back in the top 10 in the draft.
This is all about resetting the salary cap on QB. Watch Pittsburgh take full advantage of this and go to the playoffs next year.
I am a Caleb Williams fan and think he will be a good QB but most team don't have patience and it's destroying the development of QBs.
(This has nothing to do with Jones BTW)
RE: RE: Never understood the media love for Fields
He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Nope. I liked it too.
What I am suggesting, and have been suggesting, is that it was possible to have that season and still recognize that in the NFL shitty inputs can sometimes result in decent outputs. The 2022 team was not very good. They struggled to score points and they were outscored for the season. An honest assessment would reveal that they should have let Jones walk and traded Barkley.
If the fans wouldn't like it, so what? They've proven to be dead went on that topic anyway.
Schoen clearly came in with a plan initially to replace Jones, and they reversed themselves because they didn't honestly assess the 2022 team for what it was: a bad team that made the playoffs by default.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
GoTerps is out of his mind with his often-exagertaions to blast Jones-- but to say it was unlrealistic to let Jones go is untrue revisionist history.
Carr, Jimmy G, Brisett, Mayfield, and Minshew were options. In a rebuild, oyu are not looking to win a championship.
The problem was that the team lacked convictionn to rebuild.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Nope. I liked it too.
What I am suggesting, and have been suggesting, is that it was possible to have that season and still recognize that in the NFL shitty inputs can sometimes result in decent outputs. The 2022 team was not very good. They struggled to score points and they were outscored for the season. An honest assessment would reveal that they should have let Jones walk and traded Barkley.
If the fans wouldn't like it, so what? They've proven to be dead went on that topic anyway.
Schoen clearly came in with a plan initially to replace Jones, and they reversed themselves because they didn't honestly assess the 2022 team for what it was: a bad team that made the playoffs by default.
+1. I'm with you 100% on this. But that wans't one of oyur options. That's why I rpeelied in teh manner I did.
I can't tell you how pumped I was watching us win a lot of games and the coachign staff having balls and winning the playoff game. But as you said-- after the season, JS had to / should have reset himelf and face the reality. This is of his own doing. Like you and others I'm on baord 100% that JS had better get a QB.
Otherwise another msesrbale year without a QB (in which one or mroe he could have had truend out to be good while he passed and got no QB) that was drafted (among the top 6), then me and many others. probably you too. will be screaming for his head on here.
Benjamin Solak
@BenjaminSolak
Same league that doesn’t want Justin Fields for anything more than a conditional 4th wants to take Jayden Daniels second overall.
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
If the Giants had moved on from Jones in March 2022, we'd be in far better shape.
And Saquon. Now we have nothing to show for it except all the glorious years these “faces of the franchise” have provided.
He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
🤷♂️
Speedy's picture comes up on Wikipedia if you type in "10 cent head"
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
I'm not "suggesting" anything. I'm TELLING you.
Winning in 2022 felt great, but it was not good for the rebuild. That's not opinion. It's fact. It caused the franchise to completely misjudge their situation and completely erase the salary cap work the team had done in 2022. We're now tied to a QB who should have been let go last offseason. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in 2022, but he gave $160 million to a bad QB.
In addition, all of us expected a losing season in 2022. Not a playoff season. That unfairly raised expectations in 2023 and now the regime is on the hot seat because the impression is the GM and HC regressed in 2023 (the reality is a bad team, playing a harder schedule, met reality).
So yeah, 2022 hurt the franchise. It's not even debatable.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Rewind to 2022. Schoen and Daboll come in. Two guys outside of the organization. We all yelled, "hooray, Mara finally broke with his ways! We're finally going to tear it down and start over!"
Everyone expected Jones was gone. Fans were even predicting Tyrod would be the starter by midseason.
So no, it wasn't preordained.
The worst thing that happened? Daboll and his staff got this team to really overachieve.
It was preordained in the sense that the general consensus was to build off of the success of ‘22, which is what they tried to do in ‘23.
Agree on the overachievement point, but at least ‘22 showed Schoen/Daboll have the chops to win in this league. They’d really be on the hot seat entering year 3 coming off back to back terrible seasons.
This is about Fields. His percieved value, a 6th round pick, is what he has earned with his play. This is not a missed opportunity, by the Giants. I'm sure JS looked at this and made a sound decision. Not interested.
The team is trying to move on from Jones, but Fields was not the answer. Reports say the even the teams who had expressed interest were looking to him as a backup. So unless the entire leave is wrong about him, NYG made a smart choice by not pretending Fields is the answer.
In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
The conclusion you draw from that decision is that JS likes Lock's value over Fields'. You must surmise that JS looked at all potential options.
My quarterbacks sucks less than yours.How about just getting a QB that doesn't suck.If Danny Dimes is our guy he has to get over the PTSD.It's obvious he was shell shocked into a mental disorder after getting hammered every two seconds.Can you get over that? Is is neck fully healed,I don't want him getting hurt so his contract gets paid and we have no option to get out.I would draft Bo Nix.Trade down with Raiders for thier two number ones and get Bo Nix before Denver with 11th pick,he is ready and solid and waive Danny after camp shows him healthy.This player is the best QB and so underated.
RE: RE: RE: Enough already... this isn't about Jones.
In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
It is really not hard to figure out.
Fields is not worse than Lock, and easily has more upside if a coaching staff can develop it.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
I'm not "suggesting" anything. I'm TELLING you.
Winning in 2022 felt great, but it was not good for the rebuild. That's not opinion. It's fact. It caused the franchise to completely misjudge their situation and completely erase the salary cap work the team had done in 2022. We're now tied to a QB who should have been let go last offseason. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in 2022, but he gave $160 million to a bad QB.
In addition, all of us expected a losing season in 2022. Not a playoff season. That unfairly raised expectations in 2023 and now the regime is on the hot seat because the impression is the GM and HC regressed in 2023 (the reality is a bad team, playing a harder schedule, met reality).
So yeah, 2022 hurt the franchise. It's not even debatable.
It is very debatable. What hurt the franchise in 2022 was losing the LT and the majority of the starting OL in the beginning of the season during a brutal part of the schedule followed by Injury to Jones. So yeah, there is an argument.
We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
People come on here and post about Daniel Jones’ football IQ now.
The knock on him coming out in the draft in 2019 -from Sy and others - was that he didn’t process well. He still doesn’t. Every broadcast the announcers pick apart all of the open reads he misses, and the blitzes they call pre-snap and he never recognizes. An NFL rookie talked about how they know he is going to throw to the first place he looks.
But sure - it’s probably just every other person on Earth hating Daniel Jones, not an actual problem with Daniel Jones.
were never in on Fields. If they had interest, I’m sure they’d have been happy to pony up a 6th rounder.
I’ve said all along that o thought Pitt was the best fit. The question is, do they pick up his option in May? Given how little they’re spending in the QB position this year, and that Wilson is only signed for one year, I have to think yes.
We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
Find one person of authority that says Jones reads the field well if it’s true
RE: RE: RE: Never understood the media love for Fields
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
🤷♂️
In hindsight, I may have misused the phrase.
What I mean is Fields's shortcoming is his football acumen. His ability to process quickly and/or view the field consistently.
There are games or moments in games where he looks the part of a franchise QB. He is looks completely in control of his environment. But then he plays in the complete opposite fashion.
But from everything I have read and heard, Fields is very coachable. And maybe the Chicago situation was just a bad fit. So, for a sixth-round pick, I think that would have been a low-risk opportunity to put Fields in the hands of a guy like Daboll. A guy who looks to have the ability to connect with QBs and help them improve.
We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
I'm not tuned into playcalling and reading NFL defenses, but I'm glad you are enough to be able to tell us Jones is smart and Fields has a ten cent head. You're a valuable resource to BBI.
We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
You do realize that the argument you're making in this post is an appeal to authority. Saying that the coach and GM (authority figures in a football sense) must know something about Daniel Jones that others (fans, opposing players, analysts) do not, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.
"Trust the coach" is essentially what you're saying. Is that not a textbook example of the very thing you just threw a fit about?
We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
So when Brian Daboll threw a tablet at Daniel Jones, that was Daboll thinking Jones is a smart football player?
You complain about people talking about what people say but that is often the best information we have. You want to dismiss Devon Witherspoon's observation that Daniel Jones locks on the first target? That's first-hand testimony. If we can't talk about first hand testimony we can't have trials in this country.
Sorry you got it wrong about Jones. He's not a great player. He is not ascending. He is not beloved in the locker room. He is not a great leader. He doesn't have *it*, whatever that is. Get over it. It's time for the Giants to move on from Jones. And that's after only six starts removed from signing a mega contract. What an epic blunder the contract was. It will be among the worst returns for a big deal in NFL history. It makes the Brock Osweiler contract look like a huge win for the Texans.
And it is time for you and others to get over the hurt feelings. Jones was objectively and epically terrible in 2023. 2023 flipped the script on Jones, from possibly ascending to not a starting Qb in the NFL. If Schoen and Daboll have concluded they can't stake their careers on a limited, robotic and non-instinctive QB, good for them. Like you, they got duped, but the time of endless excuses is now coming to an end. Get on board for the ride.
I think Joe missed on this one. I’d much rather have Fields over Lock and Jones. A 6th round draft choice easily would have been worth it. Give Fields the starting job with Lock his back up. Keep Jones in PuP first then on the PS when he returns. We don’t want him to see action to prevent an Injury.
(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Sure, 2022 was fun, but it wasn’t sustainable. You can’t expect to keep winning one score games. The Giants did an awful job of self-scouting and instead doubled down on a season that was as much luck, and good coaching, as anything else.
RE: RE: RE: Enough already... this isn't about Jones.
In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
It is really not hard to figure out.
I have my concerns about Fields as a passer, but in no way is he a worse player than Lock. Don’t overrate a guy because your favorite team just signed him. Lock is inaccurate and takes too many risks with the ball. His only “full” season, he led the league in INT’s despite playing in only 13 games.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
I don't like supporting GoTerps at all but in this case he is certainly 100% okay to express his claim as being accurate as far as these sites are intended. Are you just pissed at him for other reasons?
Because imo in part hasn’t SY mentioned that Joens doesn't process quickly? I believe when DJ came out he someone like Greg Cosell expressed the same though. Hek, on NFL Network two of the guys both agreed when they were comparing Zach Wilson vs Daniel Jones that even Wilson processed better which I though absurd. But If it wasn't processing it was something very similar.
The point is that there are lot of analysts that GoTerps, you and I can draw conclusions from. Isn't that one of the reasons for this site is to express options - and if we get them form other experts we'd be expressing our pov as more of a matter-of-fact?
Heck, from early on - not right away, but around the times of getting Solder then especially with SB and him downplaying Positional Value I formed an opinion of DG that he was going to suck. It seems you are almost saying because I don't know all the aspects of being a GM then I shouldn't be posting what a moron DG was.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
Quote:
What are they doing.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
Seriously. Pickett and Rudolph were what they had last year. How is this an issue?
the nfl prospect fetish is unreal.
Wow! I'd have done that 10x before Locke @ $5m
Quote:
What are they doing.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
They still have to pay Fields and give up draft compensation. Fields owed like 6M this year? Could be wrong
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In comment 16435534 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
What are they doing.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
They still have to pay Fields and give up draft compensation. Fields owed like 6M this year? Could be wrong
They do not "have" to pay fields until he plays and only if he plays well.
Quote:
In comment 16435534 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
What are they doing.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
They still have to pay Fields and give up draft compensation. Fields owed like 6M this year? Could be wrong
fields is owed 1.6m base....
hes cheaper than a backup QB if you dont have cap space...
we just paid 5-6m for lock.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
As I’ve been saying all week, it would’ve been worth a stab. Oh well
Onto JJ fucking McCarthy’s overthrowing ass
Quote:
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
I figure Wilson starts and Fields has his fifth year option declined.
Tre Hawkins,
Beavers
Rodarius Williams
Cam Brown
Corey Ballentine
those were the giants recent 6th round picks. Come on Joe.
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In comment 16435549 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
I figure Wilson starts and Fields has his fifth year option declined.
rip up his current contract and negotiate a 2 year deal woth like 8-10m per...thats what love did.
shcoen didnt do this and we got stuck.
without all the injury neck/acls etc.
THATS HUGE!!!!
There is no love. His upside is insanely higher and for essentially cheaper than Lock. Crazy............
Quote:
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
Most people dobt understand why he isn't working out. But he does have the same flaws as Jones.
He checks every box except the mental one.
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In comment 16435536 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16435534 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
What are they doing.
Seeing what fits. Its costing them nothing.
They still have to pay Fields and give up draft compensation. Fields owed like 6M this year? Could be wrong
fields is owed 1.6m base....
hes cheaper than a backup QB if you dont have cap space...
we just paid 5-6m for lock.
I see it now. 👍
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
The media and fans, some here, thought he was going to be dealt for a 2nd at the very least.
The NFL knows better.
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In comment 16435549 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
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Not understanding this Fields love. He's like a younger version of Daniel Jones.
There is no love. His upside is insanely higher and for essentially cheaper than Lock. Crazy............
Yeah except he's a free agent at the end of the year. So if he plays decent you're stuck paying him Baker Mayfield/Daniel Jones money for 1 decent year in the NFL.
There's a recent they couldn't get more than a conditional 6th round pick for him.
Isaiah Simmons was the 8th pick and he was dealt for a 7th.
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Isaiah Simmons was the 8th pick and he was dealt for a 7th rounder.
Younger means more potential and he doesn’t have the injuries.
Im really disappointed that the giants didn’t get him. I don’t think they actually want someone to compete with Jones this year.
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In comment 16435568 Eric from BBI said:
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
Agreed.
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
A younger version of the guy that has done nothing but lose and be mediocre for 5 years, who says no.
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In comment 16435568 Eric from BBI said:
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
True although I think Chicago would've continued on with him if they didn't have Carolina's pick. By all accounts, the org still likes him but not enough to pass up taking a prospect of Caleb's caliber.
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
It's not like they're unfamiliar with the player. They could simply not have had much interest.
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In comment 16435553 bigbluewillrise said:
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In comment 16435549 Big Rick in FL said:
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If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
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In comment 16435568 Eric from BBI said:
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
There's no reason to have patience. The CBA discourages patience.
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
And it’s about to repeat itself this year.
this type of moves gets people fired.
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
Yet another sign that the Giants plan to draft a QB high
As always, the draft is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.
3 years from now that could be the same conversation about this draft. You never know.
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In comment 16435573 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16435553 bigbluewillrise said:
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In comment 16435549 Big Rick in FL said:
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If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
there a middle ground. jordan love just did that deal.
No guarantees. Total crapshoot. It makes life fun though, no? Haha.
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
I don’t know who they like in the college ranks.
Or the Steelers.
A QB that can play earlier means he's playing on a cost controlled rookie deal. It's a competitive advantage.
The 4 year scholarship is dead.
It remains to be seen if this regime can recover from that mistake.
They took him after trading up with us, so he cost them the 11th pick, the 7th pick in 2022, and fourth and fifth round picks.
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before they signed lock....
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
Daboll was hired in part for his skill at developing QBs. You have to figure Schoen spoke to Daboll and asked “whaddya think? Can you fix him?” and Dabs said “Maybe but I don’t love what I’m seeing on tape. I say pass. Get one of the college guys we’ve talked about.”
I don’t know who they like in the college ranks.
theres cost/benefit/risk analysis...6th overall pick vs 6th round pick
High upside based on what? His draft position?
He's been injured for 20% of his games in his career. He's barely completing 60% of his passes and he has 30 INTs and 38 fumbles in 40 career games.
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before they signed lock....
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
Yet another sign that the Giants plan to draft a QB high
One would hope that's the case, or at least the intent.
As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
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As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
I believe he's talking about two years ago when the Giants didn't pick up his option.
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Steelers got a high upside lottery ticket. Feels like Schoen is asleep at the wheel.
High upside based on what? His draft position?
He's been injured for 20% of his games in his career. He's barely completing 60% of his passes and he has 30 INTs and 38 fumbles in 40 career games.
He's got a cannon for an arm. He's a top 2 QB runner, and he played very well the last part of 2023.
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In comment 16435589 bigbluewillrise said:
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before they signed lock....
they must have passed on fields altogether.
theres no way CHI didnt reach out.
Daboll was hired in part for his skill at developing QBs. You have to figure Schoen spoke to Daboll and asked “whaddya think? Can you fix him?” and Dabs said “Maybe but I don’t love what I’m seeing on tape. I say pass. Get one of the college guys we’ve talked about.”
I don’t know who they like in the college ranks.
theres cost/benefit/risk analysis...6th overall pick vs 6th round pick
I'll take my chances with a high draft pick and as we see so will just about every NFL team
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In comment 16435610 JonC said:
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As in deal Jones? Nobody wants Jones. He's worse than Fields and has serious injury concerns and an injury guarantee. All you can do with Jones is keep him on the bench all season, or cut him after he is cleared to play. I don't think there is any dealing Jones. Seriously one of the worst deals in NFL history.
I believe he's talking about two years ago when the Giants didn't pick up his option.
Ah sorry. I stand corrected. Then yes, 100%
no way.
schoen was not asleep.
he must have actively said no this.
CHI was calling everyone and anyone about fields.
they didnt beleive in justin fields as a franchise QB.full stop.
that evaluation of fields, the evaluation of Daniel Jones to give him that contract, and the evaluation of the 6th overall pick and the 4 top qbs this year will ultimately make or break schoen/daboll careers as HC/GM. the way the nfl is going you dont get second chances especially as a GM.
thats one thing people dont realize. while daboll is more likely to get fired, daboll is way more likely to get another HC job again. GMs rarely second chances. Look at Jerry Reese/Thomas Dimitroff etc. was schocked Telesco got a 2nd shot, that's why he took a job so fast after he got fired, because its rare to get another top job.
To be fair to the Giants Jones has/had shown more than Fields or Pickett.
Also the scenarios are completely different. The Giants haven't really had the chance to replace Jones until this year. We didn't have the #1 overall pick like the Bears did. We didn't have a chance to sign a solid Super Bowl winning QB for the vet minimum whole his previous team pays him nearly 40 million.
Then again, this is the year DJ puts it all together. & if not, there's always 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2050, 2062, 2089.
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I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
To be fair to the Giants Jones has/had shown more than Fields or Pickett.
Also the scenarios are completely different. The Giants haven't really had the chance to replace Jones until this year. We didn't have the #1 overall pick like the Bears did. We didn't have a chance to sign a solid Super Bowl winning QB for the vet minimum whole his previous team pays him nearly 40 million.
Jones has shown less than Fields. Jones can only function in a dink and dunk offense. He can't throw the ball downfield. Fields has shown he can function a bit in a normal, verical offense. Maybe not well enough. But he's still a work in progress. Jones is not a work in progress. He's a backuo.
'22 was a fun season. I enjoyed it, the final game aside. But it really might have been a curse long term. The Giants brass-IMO-got way ahead of themselves with where this team was competing with the big boys.
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It remains to be seen if this regime can recover from that mistake.
Both of you stop this bullshit.
Fields threw half of his 2023 TDs against the team that was dead last in points allowed and against another team the week after they allowed 70 points.
Why do people bother with these horseshit idiotic comparisons?? The situations weren’t remotely similar.
Whatever you say, champ. Last I checked, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the best organizations with one of the better rosters in the league. You think they're in the mood to waste a QB spot on a nobody? Fields is tapped to start for them at some point in the future. That means he has value in the NFL.
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In comment 16435610 JonC said:
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It remains to be seen if this regime can recover from that mistake.
Both of you stop this bullshit.
Fields threw half of his 2023 TDs against the team that was dead last in points allowed and against another team the week after they allowed 70 points.
Why do people bother with these horseshit idiotic comparisons?? The situations weren’t remotely similar.
Learn to read.
I wanted the Giants to draft him. He doesn't have it as a passer at this level.
Thank God. We have Daniel Jones and Drew Lock.
It makes you wonder with all the QB needy teams what they saw and didn't like to make a play for Fields. Why wouldn't the Patriots make that trade unless they were definitely drafting a QB they felt that would be a better investment than just having Jacoby Brissett.
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In comment 16435609 Darwinian said:
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Steelers got a high upside lottery ticket. Feels like Schoen is asleep at the wheel.
High upside based on what? His draft position?
He's been injured for 20% of his games in his career. He's barely completing 60% of his passes and he has 30 INTs and 38 fumbles in 40 career games.
He's got a cannon for an arm. He's a top 2 QB runner, and he played very well the last part of 2023.
Very well? Stop that.
The last 7 games of the season he completed 62% of his passes (3 games under 58%) averaging 194 passing yards with 5 TDs and 3 INTs. He also averaged 59 yards rushing with 3 rushing TDs and 6 fumbles.
So in 7 games he had 8 total TDs with 3 INTs & 6 fumbles.
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Fields has been out there forever. All this says is that there wasn’t any interest. Not just from Giants, but from the entire league.
Whatever you say, champ. Last I checked, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the best organizations with one of the better rosters in the league. You think they're in the mood to waste a QB spot on a nobody? Fields is tapped to start for them at some point in the future. That means he has value in the NFL.
Stunned.
[quote] Pickett generated a better draft pick than Fields.
Stunned. [/quote
Pickett has 2 years on his rookie deal. Fields is a 1 year rental. I'd say that's the only reason.
Don't lose sleep over this.
Make the Giants Great Again
Meanwhile the Giants are stuck with the albatross Jones deal that nobody would ever take on.
They also mismanaged Saquon and not dealing him. Lost opportunities will keep a team stuck in the back of the pack as we are, deservedly so.
'22 was a fun season. I enjoyed it, the final game aside. But it really might have been a curse long term. The Giants brass-IMO-got way ahead of themselves with where this team was competing with the big boys.
A million percent it was a curse long term, but they won games in 2022. There's really nothing they could have done besides what they did do. Unfortunately that's just the way it worked out. This year is seemingly the first year they can move off of Jones with legit QB options and it sure looks like they are going to do it.
Could not agree with you more Jon. Steelers just radically upgraded the quarterback position for virtually nothing. Brilliant sequence of moves.
I'd rather have JD and future 1st or their 2 2nds, at worst their pick 34.
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I do have to laugh, as seemingly every team in the NFL-with the exception of us-realizes you don't need a presidential term plus to decide if a guy is THE guy at QB.
Make the Giants Great Again
Lol. We should try to get this to stick. MGGA.
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Could not agree with you more Jon. Steelers just radically upgraded the quarterback position for virtually nothing. Brilliant sequence of moves.
JonC means they should have dealt Daniel Jones when he still had a year left on his deal. I think. JonC can confirm. If yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
[quote] Pickett generated a better draft pick than Fields.
Stunned.
Pickett has 2 years on his rookie deal. Fields is a 1 year rental. I'd say that's the only reason. [/quote]
I guess that is a reason.
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
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In comment 16435610 JonC said:
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Could not agree with you more Jon. Steelers just radically upgraded the quarterback position for virtually nothing. Brilliant sequence of moves.
JonC means they should have dealt Daniel Jones when he still had a year left on his deal. I think. JonC can confirm. If yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
It's easy to say, but the QB options weren't there like they were for the Bears or even the Steelers.
The Bears lucked into the #1 overall pick with a bunch of very good QBs available. The Steelers signed a Super Bowl winning QB for 1.2 million because his previous team is paying him nearly 40 million. That's why they moved off of Fields & Pickett. Also same thing with the Cardinals and Rosen. If the Bears & Cardinals weren't picking #1 overall they wouldn't have moved off of Fields or Rosen. If the Steelers didn't have Russ willing to sign for 1.2 million they wouldn't have moved off of Pickett.
The Giants didn't really have that opportunity like those three teams. What QB options were available to the Giants in the 2021, 2022 & 2023 Draft? What free agent were available for 1.2 million?
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What?
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
Exactly. The Giants didn't have the #1 pick staring them in the face like the Bears do. Hypothetically if the Giants went into the 2021 Draft with the #1 overall pick. Do people really think they wouldn't have selected Trevor Lawrence? Of course they would have.
Unfortunately due to the players available in the NFL Draft the Giants weren't able to move off of Jones. This is the 1st year they've really been able to and it sure looks like they are going to.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
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Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
It's not a long term plan, it's a one year roll of the dice. Projection are that 2025 isn't a QB draft anyway, and if you believe that, there's no reason not to take a spin on an aging star trying to re-establish himself and a lottery pick that has some potential to unlock. And you did it for less than 3m total salary and a 6th round pick.
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Steelers aren't going to pick up his option. He's a backup for one year in all likelihood. But I agree that acquiring Wilson and Fields for next to nothing is fantastic work by the Steelers. I would have traded for him at that price, but also agree that the very low return shows that entire league doesn't think much of his prospects. That includes the Steelers. There are certain QBs destined to be journeyman backups. That includes Darnold, Minshew, and Taylor, and now Pickett and Fields. Next year that group will also include Jones.
Is it really fantastic work by the Steelers though? If they had a rookie QB on a 4 year deal (W/ 5th year option) then the Russ signing makes sense. Use him as a bridge QB while you develop your rookie QB. They're going to win 7-10 games with Russ and continue to pick too low in the draft to get a Franchise QB.
I still think it is. They replaced Pickett and Rudolph with Wilson and Fields. Wilson is playing for $1.21 million IIRC. Fields could be a decent spot starter. Who else was available? They have to prepare to compete this season. Those two QBs give them a chance to do so for almost nothing.
I haven't been on Twitter, but my buddy just text me and told me that Fields won't be competing for the starting position according to Twitter. So I find it highly unlikely they pick up his 5th year option.
Around the league he's not viewed as a starter and he doesn't have much utility as a back up because you have to change your offense.
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What?
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
If the Giants had moved on from Jones in March 2022, we'd be in far better shape.
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Justin Fields just got as soon as it became clear Giants passed on him. Imo, no reason to give up anything for him unless you think he's the future at QB. The Bears certainly didn't. Let's see if the Steelers pick up his option.
I haven't been on Twitter, but my buddy just text me and told me that Fields won't be competing for the starting position according to Twitter. So I find it highly unlikely they pick up his 5th year option.
It'll almost certainly be Wilson until/if he falls on his face, but at some point Fields will probaby get to play if only to demonstrate any value.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
This is like asking if someone should have bought Apple or Xerox in 2005. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would amend #1 to include cutting Jones if a trade wasn't available.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
This is like asking if someone should have bought Apple or Xerox in 2005. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight.
It's not always hindsight. Paying a player based on one successful season has burned the Giants twice in 5 years.
The first one was Leonard Williams, the second was Jones. Back when we had common sense, we would have been a little hesitant to throw $100 million dollar contracts out to one year wonders.
If someone said at the time signing Jones was a bad idea, that’s different than saying now that it was a bad idea
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
As others have noted, Justin Fields didn’t play particularly well this season nor did he even win any games by happenstance in order to make this a particularly difficult decision.
The contract is NOT 160 million dollars. Jones contract is the only one I’ve seen in which people ignore the guaranteed money because that number isn’t sexy enough to make nonsensical claims. The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Bingo.
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
I do agree he hasn't had the benefit of strong offensive coaching. Maybe Arthur Smith could help. It does say a lot about his market that teams wouldn't give up a 6th. Philly opted for Pickett.
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In comment 16435573 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16435553 bigbluewillrise said:
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In comment 16435549 Big Rick in FL said:
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If he has a decent year they'd be in the same position with Fields that they're currently in with Jones.
no they arent.
they can negotiate with fields now.
do what the packers did with love.
Why would Justin Fields take any deal right now unless it matches the 5th year option?
because its likely to get declined. so now he gets 10+m gtd instead of taking a chance hes abakcup and gets way less.
It's going to get declined for sure. Justin Fields would be an absolute moron to except any contract offer right now unless it's for the same price as the 5th year option.
Sam Darnold has been in the NFL for much longer and is much worse and just got 10 million for 1 year.
Wow, what a bust SD is considering his draft position. Just goes to show.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Not even remotely true. The Giants were a fraud in 2022.
Plan:
Bring in Wilson on the cheap, get the talented back-up at low expense too. They might be able to kick some butt.
Made me smile.
the nfl prospect fetish is unreal.
I think the Steelers got away with murder this offseason. We should've done that
The Giants got more for Kadarius Phoney (a 3rd & a 6th from KC). Think about that for a second.
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Not even remotely true. The Giants were a fraud in 2022.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I do agree he hasn't had the benefit of strong offensive coaching. Maybe Arthur Smith could help. It does say a lot about his market that teams wouldn't give up a 6th. Philly opted for Pickett.
I said it earlier. I am stunned that the less mobile, noodle-armed, glove wearing, 6.3 YPA Pickett generated better comp.
It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
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In comment 16435568 Eric from BBI said:
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Makes you wonder what the QBs in the 2024 draft will be going for in 3 years.
We're in a new era. Except for the Giants, teams have no patience with QBs.
Especially one's that have the first overall pick and a dude like Williams sitting there.
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It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
And?
The fact remains the FO and organization would’ve been skewered by the media and the vast majority of the fans by Halloween if they let them walk last off-season. Which is why they hedged by being able to get away from Jones/Barkley relatively pain free if needed. Which is what they’re doing now.
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In comment 16435787 WillVAB said:
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It is 100% true. There would’ve been just as much bitching coming off a playoff win if they essentially had a fire sale in the off-season, regardless of the merits of the decision. Whether they were a fraud or not is irrelevant, no one was calling them a fraud in real time.
I know we all blocked this out of memory, but the season didn't end by winning in Minnesota.
And?
The fact remains the FO and organization would’ve been skewered by the media and the vast majority of the fans by Halloween if they let them walk last off-season. Which is why they hedged by being able to get away from Jones/Barkley relatively pain free if needed. Which is what they’re doing now.
Whether or not the fans and media like it is no way to run a franchise anyway. The Giants have no problem doing deeply unpopular things when they want to. The fans wanted Gettleman gone after 3 horrid years. They didn't care then what the fans thought or wanted. When the Giants want to do a thing, they will do it. It just so happens that 9 times out of then they are stubborn about making the wrong decisions.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
This is like asking if someone should have bought Apple or Xerox in 2005. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight.
Why?
The Steelers just literally did this.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Rewind to 2022. Schoen and Daboll come in. Two guys outside of the organization. We all yelled, "hooray, Mara finally broke with his ways! We're finally going to tear it down and start over!"
Everyone expected Jones was gone. Fans were even predicting Tyrod would be the starter by midseason.
So no, it wasn't preordained.
The worst thing that happened? Daboll and his staff got this team to really overachieve.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
As others have noted, Justin Fields didn’t play particularly well this season nor did he even win any games by happenstance in order to make this a particularly difficult decision.
The contract is NOT 160 million dollars. Jones contract is the only one I’ve seen in which people ignore the guaranteed money because that number isn’t sexy enough to make nonsensical claims. The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
It doesn't matter. Jones was not the answer. They would have been in a better position. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in his first year. Guess what the Giants are giving Jones this year? It's more than that.
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
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In comment 16435695 Sean said:
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
Head more important than the talent piece. DJ > Fields. I know how much you disagree. The ten cent head, I have contempt for. Just can’t.
Jones doesn't have a ten cent head?
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In comment 16435705 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16435695 Sean said:
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
Head more important than the talent piece. DJ > Fields. I know how much you disagree. The ten cent head, I have contempt for. Just can’t.
Jones doesn't have a ten cent head?
Jones got a second contract for a reason and then shit happened.
Jones greater than Fields. Not my opinion, it is just obvious.
What's the point?
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
This is all about resetting the salary cap on QB. Watch Pittsburgh take full advantage of this and go to the playoffs next year.
I am a Caleb Williams fan and think he will be a good QB but most team don't have patience and it's destroying the development of QBs.
(This has nothing to do with Jones BTW)
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
🤷♂️
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In comment 16435695 Sean said:
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
Head more important than the talent piece. DJ > Fields. I know how much you disagree. The ten cent head, I have contempt for. Just can’t.
Jones has a 2 cent head. Why do you think Daboll threw a tablet at him. On the field Jones is a complete zero.
And I will watch Daniel Jones play, if he gets on the field.
Drew Lock as the Giants' starter ... if that happens, I don't know. There's nothing there. Giants couldn't have made a more boring choice.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Nope. I liked it too.
What I am suggesting, and have been suggesting, is that it was possible to have that season and still recognize that in the NFL shitty inputs can sometimes result in decent outputs. The 2022 team was not very good. They struggled to score points and they were outscored for the season. An honest assessment would reveal that they should have let Jones walk and traded Barkley.
If the fans wouldn't like it, so what? They've proven to be dead went on that topic anyway.
Schoen clearly came in with a plan initially to replace Jones, and they reversed themselves because they didn't honestly assess the 2022 team for what it was: a bad team that made the playoffs by default.
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
Once again, the Giants didn’t have the first pick in the draft after 2022.
They didn’t have the first pick in the draft with an elite quarterback prospect.
The contract is biting the Giants in the ass, but the idea that the Giants should’ve acted as if Jones was Zack Wilson post 2022 (or Justin Fields this offseason) isn’t realistic.
GoTerps is out of his mind with his often-exagertaions to blast Jones-- but to say it was unlrealistic to let Jones go is untrue revisionist history.
Carr, Jimmy G, Brisett, Mayfield, and Minshew were options. In a rebuild, oyu are not looking to win a championship.
The problem was that the team lacked convictionn to rebuild.
GM's don't have to be deliberately stupid.
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In comment 16435791 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Nope. I liked it too.
What I am suggesting, and have been suggesting, is that it was possible to have that season and still recognize that in the NFL shitty inputs can sometimes result in decent outputs. The 2022 team was not very good. They struggled to score points and they were outscored for the season. An honest assessment would reveal that they should have let Jones walk and traded Barkley.
If the fans wouldn't like it, so what? They've proven to be dead went on that topic anyway.
Schoen clearly came in with a plan initially to replace Jones, and they reversed themselves because they didn't honestly assess the 2022 team for what it was: a bad team that made the playoffs by default.
+1. I'm with you 100% on this. But that wans't one of oyur options. That's why I rpeelied in teh manner I did.
I can't tell you how pumped I was watching us win a lot of games and the coachign staff having balls and winning the playoff game. But as you said-- after the season, JS had to / should have reset himelf and face the reality. This is of his own doing. Like you and others I'm on baord 100% that JS had better get a QB.
Otherwise another msesrbale year without a QB (in which one or mroe he could have had truend out to be good while he passed and got no QB) that was drafted (among the top 6), then me and many others. probably you too. will be screaming for his head on here.
Benjamin Solak
@BenjaminSolak
Same league that doesn’t want Justin Fields for anything more than a conditional 4th wants to take Jayden Daniels second overall.
It’s very odd!
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In comment 16435683 Eric from BBI said:
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What?
When the comment you replied to says the “Giants should’ve done the same thing the Bears did”, I’m assuming they meant moving on from Jones post 2022. The situations aren’t remotely comparable.
(I put zero value in the Giants or Drew Lock saying Jones is the starting quarterback in 2024. They’re just saying what they have to say until they don’t have to say it anymore.)
If the Giants had moved on from Jones in March 2022, we'd be in far better shape.
And Saquon. Now we have nothing to show for it except all the glorious years these “faces of the franchise” have provided.
Just to clarify, that's Solak's opinion, not mine.
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In comment 16435695 Sean said:
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He's been nothing better than Daniel Jones with arguably a better supporting cast, but the media fucking loves him.
Steelers should decline his option and have him be a backup for a year.
I love Fields. Million-dollar talent, ten-cent head so far. And Jones isn't in the same galaxy talent wise.
Still, I would love to see a guy like Daboll get his hands on Field for an off-season to see if he could increase the value of that ten-cent head.
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
🤷♂️
Speedy's picture comes up on Wikipedia if you type in "10 cent head"
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
I'm not "suggesting" anything. I'm TELLING you.
Winning in 2022 felt great, but it was not good for the rebuild. That's not opinion. It's fact. It caused the franchise to completely misjudge their situation and completely erase the salary cap work the team had done in 2022. We're now tied to a QB who should have been let go last offseason. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in 2022, but he gave $160 million to a bad QB.
In addition, all of us expected a losing season in 2022. Not a playoff season. That unfairly raised expectations in 2023 and now the regime is on the hot seat because the impression is the GM and HC regressed in 2023 (the reality is a bad team, playing a harder schedule, met reality).
So yeah, 2022 hurt the franchise. It's not even debatable.
Dak Prescott - DAL
Patrick Mahomes - KC
Josh Allen - BUF
Lamar Jackson - BUF
Kyler Murray - ARZ
Daniel Jones - NYG
Dak Prescott - DAL
Patrick Mahomes - KC
Josh Allen - BUF
Lamar Jackson - BUF
Kyler Murray - ARZ
Daniel Jones - NYG
I wanna vomit.
Dak Prescott - DAL
Patrick Mahomes - KC
Josh Allen - BUF
Lamar Jackson - BUF
Kyler Murray - ARZ
Daniel Jones - NYG
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11th picks in the 2021 draft and he was traded for a 6th round pick.
Isaiah Simmons was the 8th pick and he was dealt for a 7th.
Zach Wilson was the SECOND pick and nobody wants him. He will be cut if there are no takers.
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
People who bitch about the Jones contract would be bitching just as hard right now if they let both Jones and Barkley walk last year and the Giants ended up having the shitty season they just had.
If the Giants sucked in ‘22 both would’ve been gone. The success in ‘22 complicated matters and now they’re fixing it. I don’t see the point of continuing to lament the decision when it’s obvious the organization is moving on.
Rewind to 2022. Schoen and Daboll come in. Two guys outside of the organization. We all yelled, "hooray, Mara finally broke with his ways! We're finally going to tear it down and start over!"
Everyone expected Jones was gone. Fans were even predicting Tyrod would be the starter by midseason.
So no, it wasn't preordained.
The worst thing that happened? Daboll and his staff got this team to really overachieve.
It was preordained in the sense that the general consensus was to build off of the success of ‘22, which is what they tried to do in ‘23.
Agree on the overachievement point, but at least ‘22 showed Schoen/Daboll have the chops to win in this league. They’d really be on the hot seat entering year 3 coming off back to back terrible seasons.
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
It is really not hard to figure out.
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
The conclusion you draw from that decision is that JS likes Lock's value over Fields'. You must surmise that JS looked at all potential options.
The opportunity to be Russell Wilson's back-up.
And Wilson wasn't bad last season, he just wasn't suited to Payton's style of offense.
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In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
It is really not hard to figure out.
Fields is not worse than Lock, and easily has more upside if a coaching staff can develop it.
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In comment 16435791 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
I'm not "suggesting" anything. I'm TELLING you.
Winning in 2022 felt great, but it was not good for the rebuild. That's not opinion. It's fact. It caused the franchise to completely misjudge their situation and completely erase the salary cap work the team had done in 2022. We're now tied to a QB who should have been let go last offseason. Schoen cleared $40 million from the cap in 2022, but he gave $160 million to a bad QB.
In addition, all of us expected a losing season in 2022. Not a playoff season. That unfairly raised expectations in 2023 and now the regime is on the hot seat because the impression is the GM and HC regressed in 2023 (the reality is a bad team, playing a harder schedule, met reality).
So yeah, 2022 hurt the franchise. It's not even debatable.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
The knock on him coming out in the draft in 2019 -from Sy and others - was that he didn’t process well. He still doesn’t. Every broadcast the announcers pick apart all of the open reads he misses, and the blitzes they call pre-snap and he never recognizes. An NFL rookie talked about how they know he is going to throw to the first place he looks.
But sure - it’s probably just every other person on Earth hating Daniel Jones, not an actual problem with Daniel Jones.
I’ve said all along that o thought Pitt was the best fit. The question is, do they pick up his option in May? Given how little they’re spending in the QB position this year, and that Wilson is only signed for one year, I have to think yes.
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We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
Find one person of authority that says Jones reads the field well if it’s true
LOL! You’ve admitted the guy has a 10 cent head, why would daboll be able to do anything with him?? The very definition of someone with a 10 cent head is that no one can get through to them! If someone could actually get through, the guy wouldn’t have a 10 cent head!
At least daboll was able to make jones a good QB in 2022. He obviously isn’t as physically gifted as fields, but also as obviously doesn’t have the 10 cent head that you said fields has.
🤷♂️
In hindsight, I may have misused the phrase.
What I mean is Fields's shortcoming is his football acumen. His ability to process quickly and/or view the field consistently.
There are games or moments in games where he looks the part of a franchise QB. He is looks completely in control of his environment. But then he plays in the complete opposite fashion.
But from everything I have read and heard, Fields is very coachable. And maybe the Chicago situation was just a bad fit. So, for a sixth-round pick, I think that would have been a low-risk opportunity to put Fields in the hands of a guy like Daboll. A guy who looks to have the ability to connect with QBs and help them improve.
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We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
I'm not tuned into playcalling and reading NFL defenses, but I'm glad you are enough to be able to tell us Jones is smart and Fields has a ten cent head. You're a valuable resource to BBI.
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We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
You do realize that the argument you're making in this post is an appeal to authority. Saying that the coach and GM (authority figures in a football sense) must know something about Daniel Jones that others (fans, opposing players, analysts) do not, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.
"Trust the coach" is essentially what you're saying. Is that not a textbook example of the very thing you just threw a fit about?
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We have testimony from several sources about how Jones can't see the field, can't process, and is a one read and run player.
These are the very things Fields is accused of.
Yet Fields has a ten cent head, and Jones doesn't.
Take your appeals to authority and shove them up your ass. Weak argument . I can give you appeals to authority that say Jones does those things just fine. That is why people that logic call it a fallacy. Why would Schoen and Daboll have signed him if he could not do those things.
Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
So when Brian Daboll threw a tablet at Daniel Jones, that was Daboll thinking Jones is a smart football player?
You complain about people talking about what people say but that is often the best information we have. You want to dismiss Devon Witherspoon's observation that Daniel Jones locks on the first target? That's first-hand testimony. If we can't talk about first hand testimony we can't have trials in this country.
Sorry you got it wrong about Jones. He's not a great player. He is not ascending. He is not beloved in the locker room. He is not a great leader. He doesn't have *it*, whatever that is. Get over it. It's time for the Giants to move on from Jones. And that's after only six starts removed from signing a mega contract. What an epic blunder the contract was. It will be among the worst returns for a big deal in NFL history. It makes the Brock Osweiler contract look like a huge win for the Texans.
And it is time for you and others to get over the hurt feelings. Jones was objectively and epically terrible in 2023. 2023 flipped the script on Jones, from possibly ascending to not a starting Qb in the NFL. If Schoen and Daboll have concluded they can't stake their careers on a limited, robotic and non-instinctive QB, good for them. Like you, they got duped, but the time of endless excuses is now coming to an end. Get on board for the ride.
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In comment 16435743 Eric from BBI said:
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(1) Giants trade Jones in March 2022 for draft pick.
(2) Giants give Jones $160 million contract in 2023.
Which path would have been better for the rebuild?
I would rather have gone to the Playoffs in 2022 and won, then let him go after the season.
The 2022 season was a fine season. Are you suggesting as a Giants fan, watching them win a lot of games, somehow I was supposed to be pissed off after all the wins including the playoff game?
Sure, 2022 was fun, but it wasn’t sustainable. You can’t expect to keep winning one score games. The Giants did an awful job of self-scouting and instead doubled down on a season that was as much luck, and good coaching, as anything else.
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In comment 16436041 KingBlue said:
Quite right, King, it's about the 'hindsight is 20/20' of so much of this thread. Quite extraordinary, in my 10 cent head, to think JS & BD in their 1st year would, or even could, move on from DJ/SB against the express and very public wishes of ownership. The real Q & 2nd guess made contemporaneously was not tagging DJ.
But back to knitting, as said 8th post in, I don't see how Lock at $5m makes more sense than a conditional for Fields.
Because Fields sucks worse than Lock. Why trade a pick for a bad QB and have to pay him vs just pay for a backup with no loss of picks...
It is really not hard to figure out.
I have my concerns about Fields as a passer, but in no way is he a worse player than Lock. Don’t overrate a guy because your favorite team just signed him. Lock is inaccurate and takes too many risks with the ball. His only “full” season, he led the league in INT’s despite playing in only 13 games.
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Mind you, they are the ones that fucking KNOW what play was called and what Jones was coached to do in the headset all damn game. You are proclaiming things about Jones that you don’t know dick about. Not even a little, you know nothing about playcalling and reading NFL defenses that matter AT ALL to judgement of Jones ability to read defenses.
I don't like supporting GoTerps at all but in this case he is certainly 100% okay to express his claim as being accurate as far as these sites are intended. Are you just pissed at him for other reasons?
Because imo in part hasn’t SY mentioned that Joens doesn't process quickly? I believe when DJ came out he someone like Greg Cosell expressed the same though. Hek, on NFL Network two of the guys both agreed when they were comparing Zach Wilson vs Daniel Jones that even Wilson processed better which I though absurd. But If it wasn't processing it was something very similar.
The point is that there are lot of analysts that GoTerps, you and I can draw conclusions from. Isn't that one of the reasons for this site is to express options - and if we get them form other experts we'd be expressing our pov as more of a matter-of-fact?
Heck, from early on - not right away, but around the times of getting Solder then especially with SB and him downplaying Positional Value I formed an opinion of DG that he was going to suck. It seems you are almost saying because I don't know all the aspects of being a GM then I shouldn't be posting what a moron DG was.