In nearly every season prior to the Joe Schoen regime, I think it was really possible to decipher what the Front Office had planned in the draft through either leaks and/or innuendo.
This season, the lying season, the misinformation from the FO has been coming in waves:
Wave one – the Giants PR department put out a full frontal defending and propping up Daniel Jones from numerous sources including Paul Schwartz, Tiki Barber, the usual suspects and others…
Wave two – the Giants “are done with Daniel Jones,” starting with Garafolo, who gave it a 75% chance, that the NYGs were going QB in round one of the draft, to Eisen stating emphatically that the Giants were done with Daniel Jones
Then looking at the Draft logically at this point :
At 1 Chicago is needs to draft QB as they just traded away their franchise QB
At 2 Washing traded away Sam Howell and also needs to draft a QB
At 3 the Patriots traded away Mac Jones and don’t really have a QB – as it’s hard to believe that Jacoby Brissett is the answer, they must be going QB
At 4 the Cardinals look like a trading candidate for a QB hungry team if you believe there are 4 viable top 10 QBs, or they are a possible home for Marvin Harrison Jr
At 5 the Chargers are also a candidate for a QB hungry team if you believe there are 4 viable top 10 QBs and Arizona won’t entice a trade hungry team and they are going with Herbert – which also looks likely
At 6 Here we have the Giants, who have already traded away draft capital to land Burns (including their top 2nd round pick) to beef up their defense and Lock to shore up the backup QB position, and signaled both that they want to keep Jones and that they are done with him. The top three picks are most likely going QB, and trading for those slots seems unlikely in my estimation. Trading up to 4 or 5 seems doable, the question is are there 4 draft worthy QBs to leave one at 4 (in my estimation there isn’t and personally I don’t like three of the “top 3 Qbs” and probably one of those three will be drafted at the 4 or 5 slot especially given that both Minnesota and Denver don’t have a QB. This will drive the cost of drafting the 4th QB up and create a higher risk drafting at that spot. It's kind of an all or nothing scenario: win big with the outlier pick costing a significant amount of draft capital; lose big by spending the needed draft capital and the pick is more likely a dud.)
I am somewhat reminded of the 2018 draft where there were 4 highly touted QBs: Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rosen; who look like, to me, in order: Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy. Instead of the Barkley “sure thing,” you have the Marvin Harrison "sure thing" who is likely going at 4 or 5.
So where does this leave the Giants?
The FO (kudos to them for confusing everyone) is going to:
a) trade up for the #4 QB,
b) wait for the #4 QB to fall into their lap,
c) take another position either O lineman, WR or ER
d) trade down slightly and restock the premium of second round pick and possibly more expanding the choices to O lineman, WR, ER and CB – possibly QB like Nix/Penix
Frankly, I think an argument could be made for every one of the positions above, so I give the FO massive credit for the misinformation that is spinning the discussions we are having.
I really hope our brain trust gets this one right. All due respect for those of you who think trading up for a QB is a must, I don’t. I really don't want the FO to get into a bidding war that uses up precious premium picks in 24 and 25 to trade up for a Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield. It will set the Giants back for more of the same agony we’ve been having for every year but two of the last ten. They have to get this right. (I guess that is the case every year, but I see it as being particularly acute.)
I like a lot of what they’ve done so far in FA bringing in new linemen, blocking TE’s and Burns. But to my view, the table and ensuing odds/risk is set for them to pass on QB this year, and take option c or d. My personal preference is to land another plus Defensive player, along with a plus Offensive player like they did two years ago at 5 and 7. They went defense first last year with Banks in round 1, which I liked a lot. They went defense first in year 1 with Kayvon. Let's continue to do this and make a defensive power house. I think the Giants can contend even with a Daniel Jones if their defense is a power house. In any event their are certainly teams out there that have proven that is a good formula: see Detroit, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Tennessee
This team with Jones at the helm is helped more by strong defense than many of you think; and Dabol has shown he can accomplish a lot with a dink and dunk style opportunistic offense. Jones ran that successfully in year one of Dabol/Kafka, and Lock can more than likely run that type of offense too. Bringing in WR Isaiah McKenzie and RB Devin Singletary, and beefing up the Oline/blocking TE corps sure points to that to me. Even if they do draft a QB, the odds say they will be operating this way anyway, so it makes more sense to me odds and value wise to pick a developmental QB like Nix/Pennix/McCarthy in round two or even better round three or later.
Obviously none of us know, but despite fan pressure and what analysts think of the Giants current QB room, nothing else truly matters.
If they truly see him as a long term plus starter in the NFL, all bets are off. You do what you can to take him.
If he is however rated in the 70s and you have 3 blue chip prospects in the 80s (just using an example), then it doesn't make sense to me to take him because the current QB situation sucks.
It's not ideal, but there are a ton of routes to go at the position after this year anyway. Look at Baker Mayfield in Tampa right now, Geno Smith in Seattle, etc.
New options can become available that can perform well if the roster is in a healthy spot. Would we prefer a home grown cost controlled signal caller that is a winner instead? Absolutely, but if it's not in the cards this year I think the prudent move is to improve this team at every premier position until you get the QB.
It sucks, but that's the boat they are in.
I think this past week changed a lot of things, with QB's being traded, all but guarantees 3 QB's will be taken with the to 3 picks without trades, and like Daniel Jeremiah said, 4 in the top 6 seems likely.
I'll be happy with whatever direction they choose, tho I think ER is not in the cards anymore. And given they didn't really address the WR position in FA, I do think the odds increase that that is in play.
(1) Jones has only remained healthy one season in five.
(2) Jones is coming off two very serious injuries, including injuries that may affect the strength of his game - running.
(3) If Jones gets hurt again, that will have serious salary cap ramifications.
(4) Taylor and DeVito played just as well, if not better, than Jones did last year.
(5) How will Mara react to empty seats if Jones falters once again?
These are all very real issues.
On the other hand, if the QBs they like the best are gone, the logical thing would be to take the higher rated player at other positions.
Unfortunately, Schoen and Daboll screwed the pooch with the Jones contract. They've put themselves into a terrible spot.
If the Giants don't want to trade assets to move up and get a blue chip QB prospect then they should trade down and get 25 draft picks because we'll be back in this spot again next year looking for a franchise QB.
They absolutely need a new QB, but they also need playmakers, CBs, DT, another Edge.
I think Nix will go to Denver one way or another. I am not at all interested in Rattler before the 4th. Not even sure Penix makes it to mid 2nd round where the Giants have #47.
Perhaps that Viking trade for 11 and 23 (and another pick) can get them Penix and an impact defensive player.
Unlikely? I'm counting on it.
But if they want to risk that, it's easy to predict where this is heading.
Man, that injury clause is by far the worst thing I've seen in a Giants contract in my lifetime.
I could get over the AAV and the structure - they did what they thought was right, and obviously at the time loved the out after year 2 in case things went south...
But how the hell did they agree on this clause..that's a total deal breaker and they should have let him hit the market.
No use harping on it, but it's the one true blunder of this regime.
The Giants SHOULD. But there's no way Mara would allow it. I think that we're seeing Mara is a little more hands off this offseason, but he'd probably draw the line there.
Staying at #6 and picking a QB they may not like anywhere near as much as the Top 3 or worse, burning draft capital to move up for that same guy is not maximizing our picks.
At that point Schoen should put one of elite (or near elite) WRs like Nabers or Odunze on the roster and move on. I would still try and grab a Tier 2 QB in the draft but let that sort itself out on Day Two.
QB,WR and OT.
Draft either Odunze or Nabers blue chip prospects at 6.
Besides Williams and Daniels not so sure about Maye or McCarthy.
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I know it's extremely unlikely to happen, but the Giants really should consider sitting Jones because of the very real possibility he gets injured again & aforementioned salary cap nightmare that'd entail.
The Giants SHOULD. But there's no way Mara would allow it. I think that we're seeing Mara is a little more hands off this offseason, but he'd probably draw the line there.
Here we go with the Mara again...ffs
Staying at #6 and picking a QB they may not like anywhere near as much as the Top 3 or worse, burning draft capital to move up for that same guy is not maximizing our picks.
At that point Schoen should put one of elite (or near elite) WRs like Nabers or Odunze on the roster and move on. I would still try and grab a Tier 2 QB in the draft but let that sort itself out on Day Two.
They may very well go this route, but there is no guarantee that the tier two QBs won't go before they pick again.
We have no QB unless Lock has a career revival.
Schoen and Daboll have to think about their jobs too. That's the reality.
Up until now everyone has been talking about who of the Top 4 QBs the Giants like, we may need to start asking who in that next group would be on their radar.
Do Schoen/Daboll have a high grade on one of the following day 2 targets:
Nix
Penix
Pratt
Rattler
Milton?
If so, would they have to trade back into RD1 for Nix or Penix? What is too early for Rattler/Pratt/Milton?
Its worth spending more time on the second wave of QBs than we have been.
(1) Jones has only remained healthy one season in five.
Yes this is true, but if Jones goes four and out this year - then the Giants will probably be in a premium draft position again
(2) Jones is coming off two very serious injuries, including injuries that may affect the strength of his game - running.
Yes. This is true, but that didn't stop him, like ever. He is gawky when he runs too. I'm not saying Jones is the answer Eric, just looking at what the tea leaves say - and seeing trends/odds/value. We have a Tennessee crowd in the FO and also at DC now.
Yes this is also true, but I don't see this driving how the decisions are made. The Giants have basically put a fixed cost into Jones. Right now the odds are saying we have to see this through. ( as an aside, the salary cap can be manipulate and it will also be dramatically going up. Some estimates put it in the mid three hundred millions within the next five years)
Yes, and so can Drew Lock in my estimation
In my view - this only becomes and issue, when it becomes an issue. You make your plans. You try to execute them and you hope the hell you know you are doing.
On the other hand, if the QBs they like the best are gone, the logical thing would be to take the higher rated player at other positions.
Unfortunately, Schoen and Daboll screwed the pooch with the Jones contract. They've put themselves into a terrible spot.
This is a basic assessment after the facts that have occurred and I won't dispute this either. I am personally done with Jones, but the Jones contract favors a two year window. So I think, given all of the above, you roll the dice with what you have made, combined with the odds in front of you, and see what happens.
Up until now everyone has been talking about who of the Top 4 QBs the Giants like, we may need to start asking who in that next group would be on their radar.
Do Schoen/Daboll have a high grade on one of the following day 2 targets:
Nix
Penix
Pratt
Rattler
Milton?
If so, would they have to trade back into RD1 for Nix or Penix? What is too early for Rattler/Pratt/Milton?
Its worth spending more time on the second wave of QBs than we have been.
Milton, not a chance, day 3 at best.
The player I'm most intrigued by is Jordan Travis, not sure if he will be healthy enough to have a pro day, but he's got a lot of Russell Wilson characteristics.
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doesn't really have anything to do with us being at #6 and likely shut out of the top 3 QB prospects in this draft.
Staying at #6 and picking a QB they may not like anywhere near as much as the Top 3 or worse, burning draft capital to move up for that same guy is not maximizing our picks.
At that point Schoen should put one of elite (or near elite) WRs like Nabers or Odunze on the roster and move on. I would still try and grab a Tier 2 QB in the draft but let that sort itself out on Day Two.
They may very well go this route, but there is no guarantee that the tier two QBs won't go before they pick again.
We have no QB unless Lock has a career revival.
Schoen and Daboll have to think about their jobs too. That's the reality.
Logically speaking, if Schoen's Tier 2 QB evals warrant some guys having enough value then he should make a move to wherever he thinks that strike price should be (like end of Rd 1) and try and obtain one.
However, I don't think it makes sense to pass on an elite WR at top of Round 1 or giving up too much value (via picks) just to force draft the #6 or #7th ranked QB on Schoen's draft board at the end of Rd 1 though. Desperation drafting is never good, no matter the round.
Lock may just have to do for the 2024 season. Schoen/Daboll put themselves at risk and have to figure it out without making things worse.
Up until now everyone has been talking about who of the Top 4 QBs the Giants like, we may need to start asking who in that next group would be on their radar.
Do Schoen/Daboll have a high grade on one of the following day 2 targets:
Nix
Penix
Pratt
Rattler
Milton?
If so, would they have to trade back into RD1 for Nix or Penix? What is too early for Rattler/Pratt/Milton?
Its worth spending more time on the second wave of QBs than we have been.
Nix is going to be a day 1 target.
My question marks are with Daniels, who is an electric talent, but didn't even weigh in at the combine, and Maye, who throws the ball all over the field. If those two are drafted above the Giants, then I see Giants being able to select a QB at 6, the most likely being McCarthy/Nix.
If it plays out in any other way, I am for BPA then a developmental QB not named Rattler.
Yes this is also true, but I don't see this driving how the decisions are made. The Giants have basically put a fixed cost into Jones. Right now the odds are saying we have to see this through. ( as an aside, the salary cap can be manipulate and it will also be dramatically going up. Some estimates put it in the mid three hundred millions within the next five years)
But it's not a fixed cost. The cost can increase by 50% if he gets injured. And you can say the cap is going up or whatever, but the injury clause for 2025 is basically the same value as Brian Burns cap hit, so unless you think someone like Brian Burns is worthless, then you can't pretend like it isn't a big deal
In my opinion the Giants would be foolish to risk Jones getting hurt again with the injury clause in his contract. I wouldn’t let him take a snap next season. The Giants should restructure some contracts and cut him as soon as he is healthy. Perhaps give him an opportunity to waive the clause if he wants to try and win the job outright.
Nix has the most experience of any of the QB’s coming out this year and probably the only one I would feel comfortable giving the job to week 1. With all the available veteran QB’s on the market now taken, this could be the plan if the Giants don’t want to risk another Jones injury and don’t want Lock to be the plan for the year.
They could try to trade back and gain additional picks to do this or take MHJ (if available) Odunze, or Nabors and trade up in the 2nd or later 1rst to get him.
I don’t know about you but I would be incensed if Jones plays and gets hurt potentially triggering the clause that would set us back at least another year. They should be able to tell if Nix is their guy fairly early since he is closer to his ceiling (based on experience) If it doesn’t work out try again in a couple of years. Again, this plan only works if the Giants think he has the goods.
That shouldn't be a bigger concern than passing on a Tier 2 QB that your scouts/evals say has enough potential to be good in the NFL.
There is a fine line here of not forcing a QB pick and at some point actually drafting one. This team can't go year after year of just passing up some level of investment in the QB position. Jones was drafted many moons ago.
I disagree with this. It is a fixed cost because his contract says it is a fixed cost if this happens. Like it or not the injury guarantee goes along with a premium position contract, and the Giants already made that contract with Jones. It is equally possible that Jones, with more protection up front can make it through the season and be more comfortable behind this newly reshaped line. The Giants have put more resources into it and I see it as a strong possibility. Can this go wrong? Of course it can go wrong, but it still may be the best option.
This is what I've been advocating for if their guy isn't there at 6 and/or they can't trade up.
NYG really does NOT have a starter caliber QB on the roster (I don't think of Locke that way).
Can you imagine the immense NATIONAL blow back, if Jones plays, gets injured in the neck- AGAIN, and is paralyzed from it? ( a very REAL possibility). Not only will the Giants be on the hook for his injury guarantee, but the media will be all over the organization for "subjecting Jones to this kind of risk".
The immense black eye will surely cause Mara to fire Schoen and we get to start ALL OVER AGAIN.
As Eric said, they are in a really terrible place, with their backs up against the wall.
I see only 2 options.
1. draft one of these 6 QBs somewhere in the first rd.
even if they suck, you move on within 2 years (as BW recommends.). drafting one buys them time and allows them to keep Jones on the bench until they can release him.
2. if they don't see ANY QB as viable this year, play Locke
get through the season, and figure out the QB of the future next year (unless a miracle happens and Locke becomes
a winning QB- like Goff in Detroit).
Either way, Jones CAN'T take another snap. That would be suicide for this regime.
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The wrong question when it comes to QB.
Up until now everyone has been talking about who of the Top 4 QBs the Giants like, we may need to start asking who in that next group would be on their radar.
Do Schoen/Daboll have a high grade on one of the following day 2 targets:
Nix
Penix
Pratt
Rattler
Milton?
If so, would they have to trade back into RD1 for Nix or Penix? What is too early for Rattler/Pratt/Milton?
Its worth spending more time on the second wave of QBs than we have been.
Nix is going to be a day 1 target.
My question marks are with Daniels, who is an electric talent, but didn't even weigh in at the combine, and Maye, who throws the ball all over the field. If those two are drafted above the Giants, then I see Giants being able to select a QB at 6, the most likely being McCarthy/Nix.
If it plays out in any other way, I am for BPA then a developmental QB not named Rattler.
McCarthy is likely to go at picks 4 or 5, if Maye goes to NE at 3. I want no part of Nix at pick 6.
Yep, in my mind that's the key factor that undoes what is otherwise a good post by gdie. I just don't see how JS can run Jones (let alone all the real questions whether he is capable) out there with the cap hit risk for '25 for an oft-injured player.
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But it's not a fixed cost. The cost can increase by 50% if he gets injured. And you can say the cap is going up or whatever, but the injury clause for 2025 is basically the same value as Brian Burns cap hit, so unless you think someone like Brian Burns is worthless, then you can't pretend like it isn't a big deal
I disagree with this. It is a fixed cost because his contract says it is a fixed cost if this happens. Like it or not the injury guarantee goes along with a premium position contract, and the Giants already made that contract with Jones. It is equally possible that Jones, with more protection up front can make it through the season and be more comfortable behind this newly reshaped line. The Giants have put more resources into it and I see it as a strong possibility. Can this go wrong? Of course it can go wrong, but it still may be the best option.
Huh? Can you tell me right now what Daniel Jones will cost in the 2025 cap if he isn't in the team next year? No, you can't because we don't know if the injury guarantee will kick in or not. That's by definition not a fixed cost.
And it's a hold leap to say that the player who has made it through 1 season healthy in 5, and has 3 neck injuries, is just as likely to stay healthy as he is to get injured. But again, would you want to bet the amount of cap space used for both of our new OL, and RB combined on Jones staying healthy?
The other, and more important point, is that defenses caught on to Daboll’s schemes. They know that Jones is a one read QB who has a propensity to run when that one read is taken away. Keep a spy on him, and play tight coverage close to the LOS. Expecting to be successful repeating what they ran in 2022 is a fool’s errand, I’m afraid.
There needs to be a plan to address the most important position on the field. Jones - Lock - DeVito and see what happens in 2025 isn’t a plan, it’s a wish.
NYG really does NOT have a starter caliber QB on the roster (I don't think of Locke that way).
Can you imagine the immense NATIONAL blow back, if Jones plays, gets injured in the neck- AGAIN, and is paralyzed from it? ( a very REAL possibility). Not only will the Giants be on the hook for his injury guarantee, but the media will be all over the organization for "subjecting Jones to this kind of risk".
The immense black eye will surely cause Mara to fire Schoen and we get to start ALL OVER AGAIN......
Either way, Jones CAN'T take another snap. That would be suicide for this regime.
In my view this issue is a Red Herring. It makes for dramatic crescendos of either the sky is falling or it will fall. You want to go there be my guest, but this scenario also presages a season like we just had.
At the end of the day if we have a season like we just had, and we've improved the trenches and talent on the team, then we go into 2025 with a high premium pick again, and can either make a trade for a QB if it makes sense, or pick one in the draft, which ever makes better sense if and when the time comes. (see Tampa, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Tennessee) the injury guarantee blip into the dead cap will just have to be dealt with. That's what the GM get's paid to do. I am not going to spend a lot of my time crying over spilt milk if and when it spills. That is for others, who enjoy going there to do, imv. You want to say, "I told you so," after the season and it happens, I will shrug and say, "So what. This was the chance they had to take." Both Shoen and Jones are big boys and this is what they bargained for.
Will I like it? No, but I can justify it.
The QB craze this year across the NFL is extremely high.....if what Viking is planning true....4 QB drafted in top 5!!!
Are we really seeing the best QB class ever! Or will several teams make big mistakes!
I am fine with the Giants drafting a QB...if a QB the Giants like....is available. But
Not all in!!!! I would not sacrifice 2025 draft picks.....I would not include our best players ....I would accept drafting a QB...but not under desperate measures.
Especially.....with the illusive #1 WR and 1 of the top players in entire draft sitting there.....seems like a simple choice...imo.
Also....the narrative of Taylor and Cutlet are better than Jones is false.
The team played better.....because the OL played better.....neither Taylor, not cutlet are better than Jones
So many qb's with rave reviews have been total busts.
Lock did fine in Seattle I think we take best player available or trade back
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
Is the injury concern a real concern? Absolutely! And if it happens it happens as Gidie says you deal with it and move on. Could they take a QB at #6. Absolutely, because while I believe Jones is a better QB than most around here give him credit for he still not elite and you don't get many chances to get one even if the odds are slim. At the same time, I joked with a friend the other day saying that maybe the Giants are quietly hoping the 3 top QBs go 1-2-3 and that Minny trades up to 4-5 for McCarthy so they can take the WR but still say to the fans we wanted to take a QB and we tried to move but didn't have the ammo and at 6 none were worth a pick that high.
Ultimately time will tell and we now have less than 40 days to the draft but me fears its going to be a long 40 days.
I have made it clear that I do not want to trade up for any of these QBs. I don't see Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson when looking at Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM. I'm happy taking any of them at #6, but don't want to trade up.
But I also think Schoen did try and trade up, particularly with NE, and maybe also with AZ and SD. He was either beaten out by Minnesota, the teams decided not to trade, or they were asking too much.
The end result is that I think we either take Nabers or Odunze at six or trade down. If either happens, then it will be interesting to see if the Giants draft a QB later on, or just punt the position until next year.
I think we still have seven picks next year. Carolina has our fifth round pick, but we have Seattle's fifth round pick from the LW trade.
I will say this, though - if they believe they can win with Daniel Jones, I hope we have heard the end of the mantra “smart, tough, dependable.” I don’t see how anyone can argue that that describes Daniel Jones and his complete inability to play a full season.
Our last GM had no plan. If our new GM is going to keep reciting this mantra, he needs to make sure his plan is following it.
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
You have to be joking with this, right?
Drafting a QB seems to be difficult at best with the success rate poor in the first round but much worse after the first round.
The success rate is defined below.
Since 2011 there have been 38 first-round quarterbacks who have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7
Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them.
All that draft capital was spent to get 3.4 years on average, of what most typically was poor performance.
The statistics get worse when you factor in the QBs who are in their rookie deals.
So the first round has a poor success rate but it plummets when drafting QBs in the later rounds.
Second-round picks are 50% less likely to succeed than first-round picks.
Third-round picks have a success rate that is 25% of the first round.
Drafting a QB is difficult at best in the first round but becomes a wasted selection after the first round.
Yes, there are the exceptions that we all know about but they are an anomaly, and teams who have significant needs can ill afford to gamble on a later pick.
I will say this, though - if they believe they can win with Daniel Jones, I hope we have heard the end of the mantra “smart, tough, dependable.” I don’t see how anyone can argue that that describes Daniel Jones and his complete inability to play a full season.
Our last GM had no plan. If our new GM is going to keep reciting this mantra, he needs to make sure his plan is following it.
Agreed and I can’t agree with any of Colin’s premises on Jones. I don’t see Giants subscribing to any such process or optimism on Jones. He was and is a short term hedge and any trust is out window with how he played even before injury.
I think the draft turns on what the cardinals do at #4. If they are willing to trade down and the Vikings bid things up to high i dont think it makes sense to get into a bidding war unless they are absolute thrilled with whoever the QB4 is to a comparable level as they were with josh allen.
Call me crazy but it’s fairly premature to say that. He signed a 2 year guaranteed deal with a dead money out.
See how things transpire with the draft and then go from there.
Obviously if they only have 3 QBs graded as good enough, then they need to trade up or just give up on a QB
Evan Neal has played on the exact same “historically bad” Oline that has made drawing any conclusions about Jones impossible for some. By this same logic, isn’t it at least a couple of years to early to evaluate Neal since he is playing with such crap around him?
At this point, the “we don’t know who Daniel Jones is” is just a complete lack of accountability for a guy who has massively underachieved.
Very good OL/running game with a upper tier D will have you competing for the playoffs most seasons even with average QB play. I'd support continuing to build here in the draft. Strike for perimeter players where BPA. They need a upper tier outside threat.
I don't agree with the idea that drafting a QB keeps Daboll around longer. That is earned. I also think the Tennessee influence within the Giants is interesting (and may impact things imv) and I will leave it at that....
Very good OL/running game with a upper tier D will have you competing for the playoffs most seasons even with average QB play. I'd support continuing to build here in the draft. Strike for perimeter players where BPA. They need a upper tier outside threat.
I don't agree with the idea that drafting a QB keeps Daboll around longer. That is earned. I also think the Tennessee influence within the Giants is interesting (and may impact things imv) and I will leave it at that....
Tennessee influence is being overstated here as none of these guys here now were decision makers there ultimately. Their defenses were solid but not overly spectacular. They ran a heavy run based offense around Henry and had an easy division good for about 4-5 wins as a base for several years straight.
They made efforts multiple times to look into upgrading that QB position but ended up where they couldn’t. Where they made a decision quickly is moving on from a guy who was a below average QB in Mariota. But again that was Robinson and Vrabel.
Tennessee influence is being overstated here as none of these guys here now were decision makers there ultimately.
Sammo - Ryan Crowden who is now one of Scheon's right hand men now, wasn't a decision maker at Tennessee? You may want to look that up.
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And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
You have to be joking with this, right?
I just can’t anymore with these mental gymnastics for Jones.
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Tennessee influence is being overstated here as none of these guys here now were decision makers there ultimately.
Sammo - Ryan Crowden who is now one of Scheon's right hand men now, wasn't a decision maker at Tennessee? You may want to look that up.
His name is Ryan Cowden. Not Crowden.
And I’m well aware he is here. He did not have decision making authority. That is a cold hard fact. Robinson had ultimate say and even Vrabel had more decision power on roster. Cowden was ultimately roughly 5th on the pecking order even behind the other Assistant GMs.
Did he have influence? Sure. Minimally so. His job was scouting and he was generally an outsider to the Patriots group there.
Evan Neal has played on the exact same “historically bad” Oline that has made drawing any conclusions about Jones impossible for some. By this same logic, isn’t it at least a couple of years to early to evaluate Neal since he is playing with such crap around him?
At this point, the “we don’t know who Daniel Jones is” is just a complete lack of accountability for a guy who has massively underachieved.
+1.
And I’m well aware he is here. He did not have decision making authority. That is a cold hard fact. Robinson had ultimate say and even Vrabel had more decision power on roster. Cowden was ultimately roughly 5th on the pecking order even behind the other Assistant GMs.
Did he have influence? Sure. Minimally so. His job was scouting and he was generally an outsider to the Patriots group there.
I guess we have a different view of cold hard fact
Cowden first came aboard in 2016 and served as director of player personnel for two seasons before taking his most recent role. He also served as interim general manager after Jon Robinson was canned.
Link - ( New Window )
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And I’m well aware he is here. He did not have decision making authority. That is a cold hard fact. Robinson had ultimate say and even Vrabel had more decision power on roster. Cowden was ultimately roughly 5th on the pecking order even behind the other Assistant GMs.
Did he have influence? Sure. Minimally so. His job was scouting and he was generally an outsider to the Patriots group there.
I guess we have a different view of cold hard fact
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The Tennessee Titans and vice president of player personnel, Ryan Cowden, have apparently parted ways, as Cowden is no longer listed on the team’s official website.
Cowden first came aboard in 2016 and served as director of player personnel for two seasons before taking his most recent role. He also served as interim general manager after Jon Robinson was canned.
Link - ( New Window )
What’s your point? He was lame duck overseer for half a year after Adams Strunk fired the rest of the front office. And then was told to hit the road himself.
As to whether the Pats are looking at QB, pretty sure that will be clear before the draft.
What’s your point? He was lame duck overseer for half a year after Adams Strunk fired the rest of the front office. And then was told to hit the road himself.
What's my point?
Let's see - in addition to Ryan Cowden (Executive Advisor to the General Manager) the Giants currently have former Offensive coordintor (Tim Kelly - NY Giants TE Coach) and former Defensive Coordinator (Shane Bowen - NY Giants DC) on Staff
They have the former Tennessee Director of Sports Performance (Frank Piraino - NY Giant Director of Strength and Conditioning) On Staff
They have Zack Kuhr (Deffensive Assitant) former Tennesse Assistant Linebackers Coach on staff
No significant Tennessee influence at all, got it
As far as the Giants results/progress matters. Doesn't have to translate into wins.
If they don't have a QB to lead them into 2025 and beyond or at least showthey can get a tremendusly high value pick in 2025 or in FA-- then the GM should be gone.
Jones also had a pretty serious concussion in the pros and had a broken left clavicle in college in 2019.
That is 5 injuries to the neck and above area in 6 years.
Not to mention that he also has a had a right ankle sprain missing a game , right hamstring sprain missing a game, a high ankle sprain on right missing two games and now a torn ACL on his right knee. 4 injuries all to his to right leg.
Started 2-7 as a rookie (7 straight losses)
0-5 and 1-7 in 2020
1-5 in 2021
1-5 in 2023
Any start resembling this and the ability to only turn to Drew Lock and/or DeVito or a mi-round draft choice will be impossible for any one to explain, let alone if Jones is reinjured and an injury guarantee kicks in and 2025 does not look a strong QB class.
Yes they opened 7-2 in 2022 but they also finished 2-5-1
This is so wrong.This is like saying "I have a rule of drafting priority so if Mahomes comes up in a draft - I'm sorry I will pass beucause my tema is not ready." Absurd.
Yet at the same time people that support your rule will always be screaming to draft BPA -- yet in a comical way they avoid drafting the most important postion in the NFL all because of inflexibility/rigidity.
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
Is the injury concern a real concern? Absolutely! And if it happens it happens as Gidie says you deal with it and move on. Could they take a QB at #6. Absolutely, because while I believe Jones is a better QB than most around here give him credit for he still not elite and you don't get many chances to get one even if the odds are slim. At the same time, I joked with a friend the other day saying that maybe the Giants are quietly hoping the 3 top QBs go 1-2-3 and that Minny trades up to 4-5 for McCarthy so they can take the WR but still say to the fans we wanted to take a QB and we tried to move but didn't have the ammo and at 6 none were worth a pick that high.
Ultimately time will tell and we now have less than 40 days to the draft but me fears its going to be a long 40 days.
"my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again."
If they think that, we're fucked.
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Morning guys: Well-thought out post Gidie and interesting discussion. The one thing that I sense is that the discussion that's actually going on in the Giants War Room is almost totally the opposite of the one you guys are having. It appears to me the whole tenor of the board is how do we avoid worst case scenarios whereas what I suspect what the Giants are thinking is that we are an improving team (albeit with still a ways to go) and are focused on how do we get to the playoffs and beyond.
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
Is the injury concern a real concern? Absolutely! And if it happens it happens as Gidie says you deal with it and move on. Could they take a QB at #6. Absolutely, because while I believe Jones is a better QB than most around here give him credit for he still not elite and you don't get many chances to get one even if the odds are slim. At the same time, I joked with a friend the other day saying that maybe the Giants are quietly hoping the 3 top QBs go 1-2-3 and that Minny trades up to 4-5 for McCarthy so they can take the WR but still say to the fans we wanted to take a QB and we tried to move but didn't have the ammo and at 6 none were worth a pick that high.
Ultimately time will tell and we now have less than 40 days to the draft but me fears its going to be a long 40 days.
"my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again."
If they think that, we're fucked.
+1. Colin was wrong about them last year as was JS.
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What’s your point? He was lame duck overseer for half a year after Adams Strunk fired the rest of the front office. And then was told to hit the road himself.
What's my point?
Let's see - in addition to Ryan Cowden (Executive Advisor to the General Manager) the Giants currently have former Offensive coordintor (Tim Kelly - NY Giants TE Coach) and former Defensive Coordinator (Shane Bowen - NY Giants DC) on Staff
They have the former Tennessee Director of Sports Performance (Frank Piraino - NY Giant Director of Strength and Conditioning) On Staff
They have Zack Kuhr (Deffensive Assitant) former Tennesse Assistant Linebackers Coach on staff
No significant Tennessee influence at all, got it
Bunch of low level staffers are going to make Schoens and Dabolls decisions for them?
Got it.
If they think that, we're fucked.
Morning Eric: This is the NFL where there are few easy answers so in the in the end we could be!
Right now though I am just trying to sense of what the Giants are trying to do. And what they have said publicly is that they still have faith in Jones, that they believe he has the tools to be a successful NFL QB, that it is up to him and the organization to surround him with a better supporting cast, that Jones will be the starter next fall when he's ready to go, that they'd sign a veteran (in the end Lock although he wouldn't have been my first choice) who they felt could step in and win games if Jones was injured, and that they would in all likelihood be drafting a QB at some point in the draft. Which sounds more like someone trying to cover off as many bases as possible rather that someone going full speed in another direction.
I thought the whole issue with Russell Wilson was telling. Wilson, a proven veteran, came to NY first - and remember he's got a superstar model/actress for a wife who I'm guessing given her druthers would probably prefer to live in NY rather than Pittsburgh! - and they could have offered him the starting job and would only have had to pay him the league minimum, but they didn't. They told him he'd be coming here as the backup.
So why are they thinking that way: a) they're stupid, but we know they're not; b) Mara made them do it! But we both know that's out there in conspiracy land; c) they could be throwing out some smoke and mirrors but its hard to see what that would accomplish, or d) they actually still like the guy and think that given the other options available he's the one that gives them the best chance for now to win games. Could I be wrong in that assessment. Of course. We're just trying to read the tea leaves and its an imperfect art as we learned last year. Could the Giants draft someone at 6 and end up with that guy starting by week 3. Absolutely. But maybe the Giants are thinking we shouldn't cut our best option at the position until we actually draft someone and maybe even see whether the guy can even play.
Just cut ties. End the “era”. Get a QB and move on…
Weather this is a deliberate tactic or not they have added pieces, filled gaps, but not closed any doors.
This is set up for a very entertaining draft night. They can go up a little, they can go up a lot. they can stay put and get a QB or stay put and miss out. They can drop back and have crazier options.
The big questions are how big is the gap on their board between Williams/Daniels to Maye/JJ and then from Maye/JJ to Nix.
Good chance NE, Minn and the Giants all take QB's but we don't know who wants who and where. Or if all 3 are options for each of the 3 teams.
And its been very quiet around Caleb Williams. I'm wondering if he does something to push himself to a preferred landing spot.
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Morning guys: Well-thought out post Gidie and interesting discussion. The one thing that I sense is that the discussion that's actually going on in the Giants War Room is almost totally the opposite of the one you guys are having. It appears to me the whole tenor of the board is how do we avoid worst case scenarios whereas what I suspect what the Giants are thinking is that we are an improving team (albeit with still a ways to go) and are focused on how do we get to the playoffs and beyond.
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
Is the injury concern a real concern? Absolutely! And if it happens it happens as Gidie says you deal with it and move on. Could they take a QB at #6. Absolutely, because while I believe Jones is a better QB than most around here give him credit for he still not elite and you don't get many chances to get one even if the odds are slim. At the same time, I joked with a friend the other day saying that maybe the Giants are quietly hoping the 3 top QBs go 1-2-3 and that Minny trades up to 4-5 for McCarthy so they can take the WR but still say to the fans we wanted to take a QB and we tried to move but didn't have the ammo and at 6 none were worth a pick that high.
Ultimately time will tell and we now have less than 40 days to the draft but me fears its going to be a long 40 days.
"my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again."
If they think that, we're fucked.
I fully expect them to fuck this up again. If no QB is taken in the first round, then it's entirely possible there's no legit challenger to Jones (in their eyes) in 2024. If that happens, how could they sit Jones (despite the financial/cap risks) with their jobs on the line. Wilson brought in and told he'd be the backup to Jones reinforces it imv.
Scary times just might continue, unless Schoen is truly awake to the QB reality.
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In comment 16436273 Colin@gbn said:
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Morning guys: Well-thought out post Gidie and interesting discussion. The one thing that I sense is that the discussion that's actually going on in the Giants War Room is almost totally the opposite of the one you guys are having. It appears to me the whole tenor of the board is how do we avoid worst case scenarios whereas what I suspect what the Giants are thinking is that we are an improving team (albeit with still a ways to go) and are focused on how do we get to the playoffs and beyond.
And whether one agrees with them or not (and it matters not a whit if one doesn't) they think that right now Jones gives them the best option to get there. So many here are focused on the past when for the most part the Giants were a bad to really bad team making it almost impossible to know how good any QB would be, the Giants may very well have made the decision that Jones has the tools to be effective in the offence they want to run going forward. As an aside re the comment that Jones was outplayed by Taylor/DeVito, my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again.
Is the injury concern a real concern? Absolutely! And if it happens it happens as Gidie says you deal with it and move on. Could they take a QB at #6. Absolutely, because while I believe Jones is a better QB than most around here give him credit for he still not elite and you don't get many chances to get one even if the odds are slim. At the same time, I joked with a friend the other day saying that maybe the Giants are quietly hoping the 3 top QBs go 1-2-3 and that Minny trades up to 4-5 for McCarthy so they can take the WR but still say to the fans we wanted to take a QB and we tried to move but didn't have the ammo and at 6 none were worth a pick that high.
Ultimately time will tell and we now have less than 40 days to the draft but me fears its going to be a long 40 days.
"my guess is the Giants thinking is that if they'd had a healthy Jones for the full season they would have won 2-3 more games and been in the playoff hunt again."
If they think that, we're fucked.
I fully expect them to fuck this up again. If no QB is taken in the first round, then it's entirely possible there's no legit challenger to Jones (in their eyes) in 2024. If that happens, how could they sit Jones (despite the financial/cap risks) with their jobs on the line. Wilson brought in and told he'd be the backup to Jones reinforces it imv.
Scary times just might continue, unless Schoen is truly awake to the QB reality.
Being that they self scouted and had in person interviews with all of the top QB…what would lead you to believe that Schoen isn’t fully aware of the QB reality?
Agreed. What gives me pause is I think we're in the minority there.
We shall see, but I remain optimistic
And personally of the six top guys I think Penix is the best fit.
1-5 record
TD % - 1.3 percent
INT % - 3.8 percent
Yards/Attempt: 5.7
QBR: 70.5
Tyrod Taylor
2-3 record
TD % - 2.8 percent
INT % - 1.7 percent
Yards/Attempt: 7.5
QBR: 89.1
Tommy DeVito
3-3 record
TD % - 4.5 percent
INT % - 1.7 percent
Yards/Attempt: 6.2
QBR: 89.2
Taylor and DeVito become starters and immediately they start taking shots DOWN THE FIELD.
We saw it with our own eyes. The numbers back it up too.
Is Daniel Jones better or worse than the other two? The fact that this isn't a crazy question to start with is all you need to know.
They are paying him $160 million.
Book mark this.
The question is, are his injuries just freak occurrences or does he have an inherent (genetic?) predisposition to ligament injuries?
1-5 record
TD % - 1.3 percent
INT % - 3.8 percent
Yards/Attempt: 5.7
QBR: 70.5
Tyrod Taylor
2-3 record
TD % - 2.8 percent
INT % - 1.7 percent
Yards/Attempt: 7.5
QBR: 89.1
Tommy DeVito
3-3 record
TD % - 4.5 percent
INT % - 1.7 percent
Yards/Attempt: 6.2
QBR: 89.2
Its a fair point Eric to a point. The problem with that analysis is that they played entirely different schedules and with basically different teams. In fact Jones' 5 game involved the teams most difficult stretch of the year; he had to play behind a patched together OL that had Ezedu and Neal, two human turnstiles if there ever were any, at OT and Lemieux and McKethan at OG; and was likely one of the worst in the history of the NFL; an was working for the most part without Saquon, Waller, Wan'dale and Hyatt being available.
The question is would Taylor and DeVito have fared any better or even as bad. Indeed, one can make a pretty good case that the Giants were 0-5 after those first 5 games with either guy.
More to the point it appears that the Giants understand all that and us debating it is kind of pointless.
Could Jones stay healthy a full 17 game schedule? Could the existing injury issues not impact his game moving forward? Could he become a different QB and start throwing down the field?
Sure, I guess.
But I wouldn't count on any of this.
And if this regime wants to hook their wagon to Daniel Jones, good luck with that.
Book mark this.
If that's what they run with the Giants will be irrelevant until at least 2028
He was doing this in 2nd half of 2022 with better protection, but everybody got their eyes papered over by ridiculous stats against a group of practice squad players on the Colts and among the NFLs worst defenses in the Vikings.
Good defenses know how to beat Jones mentally.
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of Jones possibly being shell shocked ala Carr in their last podcast in addition to the injuries. I'm no scout, but you can see his inclination is to run rather than let things develop. It makes sense based on what he's had to deal with, but I feel like you saw it during plays with relatively clean pockets as well.
He was doing this in 2nd half of 2022 with better protection, but everybody got their eyes papered over by ridiculous stats against a group of practice squad players on the Colts and among the NFLs worst defenses in the Vikings.
Good defenses know how to beat Jones mentally.
Agreed and the sports media cycle is so hyperbolic to get eyeballs, that the context of who they were playing was never really talked about and instead the narrative was Daboll was turning Jones into mini-Allen. It was a fun run and as a fan you get caught up and can buy into it, but the problems were there.
I believe they are trying to push a player to them whether it is a QB or WR. If it works it works.
I think they hope Maye falls to them, but if not they will have their choice of WR not named Harrison.
a few good players, but overall lack high end talent and lack depth. Needs a ton of work and won't be winning anytime soon
2 - How is our draft capital?
High end picks ,but lack depth of picks. Not even getting many comp picks. Weak roster, and weak draft capita
3- Salary cap situation?
Not good this year, and relatively speaking not great the next few years either. The good news is guys like Burns and AT are locked up aready.
IMO, unless we find a true franchise QB at the top this year that the FO is convinced is it - we are not one player away. To me, the only solution is to trade down, especially if blown away. Staying at 6 can land us a stud, but a stud WR kinda sorta doesn't move the needle enough. If we added J Jeffeson right now, are we a contender? So drafting one isn't enough, IMO
Getting blown away with a trade down can answer all three of our problems above. More draft capital that can lead to more depth of talent to fill several of our many holes. Multiple first contract payer will fix our cap issue as well!
ANd let's be honest, we will be picking top ten for another year or two anyway... With more draft capital to move up for a franchise QB, if they fallin love with soeone.
Justmy opinion. But I would stack our D. That takes pressure off the QB (especially if its Jones). We can win with a good QB that way. ANd the way teams are ggiving up on QBs earlier than ever before - the odds offinding the next Tannehill are pretty good.
I'd rather stack the D, and use mid round picks on castaways fro a team who is giving up too ealry on a QB who just was a mnismatch for their system.
I think Schoen has had a good offseason so far, but he's not done if he wants to earn that benefit of the doubt.
And if they do take a QB we have to hope he's the next coming of Josh Allen or Justin Herbert but that there is every chance that he could end up being the next coming of Zach Wilson or trey Lance or Blake Bortles or Mitch Trubisky or Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen or Mac Jones so you try and keep as many other options open as possible.
To put it another way, while there are 6 really good QB options out there, the odds are that 2-3 will be really good NFL players, 2-3 will be JAGS and 2-3 will be busts. And the dirty little secret in the NFL is that in truth nobody but nobody knows which is going to be which.
You need to deepen the room.
I also think people keep saying Giants like Jones because they want them to or they just do (bias). I’ll admit I have some bias in that I don’t like Jones as a passing QB even if you take the money and cap hit and his injuries out of equation.
Oh wait, that’s all part of the equation still.
I’m sure they like Jones the person, but Jones the QB is a highly paid milquetoast leadership personality, oft injured, and enigmatic passer. I highly doubt they “like” the idea of hitching their NFL fortunes solely to such a commodity.
That’s the rub and the end all be all. They could just as easily all survive together with an “ok” 2024 only to see the floor collapse in 2025 again.
But why would you want to risk it. If Giants have a shot at QB they need to take it and not look back. Because it’s just good business. This isn’t charity.
If they can navigate things and land a new QB at top of Rd 1 then they will, but it is looking unlikely. If they can't then they just have to decide if some of the Tier 2 guys work for them and when they might go. If all else fails, Daniel Jones is under contract and Lock will cover as needed when the season opens.
But DJ is only an option for 2024, but moreso really a dead man walking despite the double-talk posts above.
I fully expect them to fuck this up again. If no QB is taken in the first round, then it's entirely possible there's no legit challenger to Jones (in their eyes) in 2024. If that happens, how could they sit Jones (despite the financial/cap risks) with their jobs on the line. Wilson brought in and told he'd be the backup to Jones reinforces it imv.
Scary times just might continue, unless Schoen is truly awake to the QB reality.
Remember, Schoen admitted they needed to address the QB position either through the draft or free agency. Now that Lock has been signed, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that its mission accomplished.
Sure, they may have kicked around the idea of using the draft to possibly make the big pig pivot. But, at the end of the day, they just might still feel most comfortable with Jones. And some ego may be interfering where first time GM, who wants to still be right on Jones.
So, now it's on to the draft to continue building the team around Jones.
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I fully expect them to fuck this up again. If no QB is taken in the first round, then it's entirely possible there's no legit challenger to Jones (in their eyes) in 2024. If that happens, how could they sit Jones (despite the financial/cap risks) with their jobs on the line. Wilson brought in and told he'd be the backup to Jones reinforces it imv.
Scary times just might continue, unless Schoen is truly awake to the QB reality.
Remember, Schoen admitted they needed to address the QB position either through the draft or free agency. Now that Lock has been signed, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that its mission accomplished.
Sure, they may have kicked around the idea of using the draft to possibly make the big pig pivot. But, at the end of the day, they just might still feel most comfortable with Jones. And some ego may be interfering where first time GM, who wants to still be right on Jones.
So, now it's on to the draft to continue building the team around Jones.
That is what concerns me, and it's more aligned with recent history than what fans are (logically) hoping for.
There are lots of QB needy teams ahead of the Giants and folks angling to move up ahead of them.
In other words, the Giants really can't enter the season with the current QB depth chart.
In other words, the Giants really can't enter the season with the current QB depth chart.
C'mon Terps. This is preposterous. DeVito was yanked in his fourth full game. That's kinda like putting Zack Wilson back out there. It's a sign of sheer desperation to start him game one. This is the kind of statement that makes me question your sanity.
In other words, the Giants really can't enter the season with the current QB depth chart.
Locke is the better option because if he has a productive year and signs somewhere else next year for decent money - we may get a comp pick.
There are lots of QB needy teams ahead of the Giants and folks angling to move up ahead of them.
Yes, indeed. It would conveniently remove the decision from NYG hands too, in one respect.
I would trade up for Maye, but I'm not terribly sold on McCarthy, even at #6.
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the best option is DeVito. We know what Jones and Lock are, and it isn't good enough. Giving DeVito a legit shot (i.e he enters camp as the starter) is the best option.
In other words, the Giants really can't enter the season with the current QB depth chart.
C'mon Terps. This is preposterous. DeVito was yanked in his fourth full game. That's kinda like putting Zack Wilson back out there. It's a sign of sheer desperation to start him game one. This is the kind of statement that makes me question your sanity.
You're the last poster who should be questioning anyone on anything.
The Giants are going to lose with any of these three guys. None of them are any good. DeVito is the one we know the least about, so I'd be in favor of going with him. The point about Lock and the comp pick is a good one too.
The guy who definitely shouldn't play is Jones. He should never take another snap for the Giants again. There's no good reason for it.
I have the right to question everything
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The Giants are going to lose with any of these three guys. None of them are any good. DeVito is the one we know the least about, so I'd be in favor of going with him. T
You make a few god posts on other threads then you make a post like this. Then when the seaosn starts you';ll claim you never saaid to go with Devito,
Anyhow, just stop with abusrd posts like this. You're embarrassing yourself. You're way better than this.
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In comment 16437682 gidiefor said:
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The Giants are going to lose with any of these three guys. None of them are any good. DeVito is the one we know the least about, so I'd be in favor of going with him. T
You make a few god posts on other threads then you make a post like this. Then when the seaosn starts you';ll claim you never saaid to go with Devito,
Anyhow, just stop with abusrd posts like this. You're embarrassing yourself. You're way better than this.
There's no point to starting the season with Jones or Lock. There's nothing to learn, and the likelihood that they will increase their dwindling value is very small. Maybe Lock could, but with Jones it's an impossibility due to injury, contract, and the well established fact around the NFL that he stinks.
The Giants don't have a good option on the roster. They're all terrible.
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In comment 16437774 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16437682 gidiefor said:
Quote:
The Giants are going to lose with any of these three guys. None of them are any good. DeVito is the one we know the least about, so I'd be in favor of going with him. T
You make a few god posts on other threads then you make a post like this. Then when the seaosn starts you';ll claim you never saaid to go with Devito,
Anyhow, just stop with abusrd posts like this. You're embarrassing yourself. You're way better than this.
There's no point to starting the season with Jones or Lock. There's nothing to learn, and the likelihood that they will increase their dwindling value is very small. Maybe Lock could, but with Jones it's an impossibility due to injury, contract, and the well established fact around the NFL that he stinks.
The Giants don't have a good option on the roster. They're all terrible.
If Jones starts the season, is he hurt?
So if he starts - at that moment you're already wrong, arent you when you say Jones can't increase his value because of injury? If he is healthy ofc he cna increase his value. That doesn'rt mean he will be good. -- SO you are suggesting if Giants put him out there - even though he is cleared by the Doctors-- you KNOW he is either hurt or its IMPOSSBILE he could increase his value one bit? If you think this - do you know how ridiculous that sounds vs suggesting Devito?
You can't be such a moron to sugget we knwo the leats abotu Devito. I mean there are moronic tstaements but that is too funny to takde serious.