the best players. And the best players will still be there at #6.
This team may get shut out of a QB but one of the best WRs will most certainly be there for them to grab. And this team certainly could use a WR1 at some point.
Do you think a team like Minnesota is stupid enough
to calk the Giants and tell them what they are offering so the Giants can use that information to predict what they would offer to move up to 3, 4, or 5 and then beat that offer?
I can't find anything where Raanan actually says this
"If QBs get taken 1-4, or with 4 of the top 5, 6 or 7 picks, it will be the first time it has EVER happened." Joe Mahoney SB Nation Link - ( New Window )
It might be dawning on Schoen that the top 3, plus JJ, might all go before us. So I look at the trade down option as putting Penix and Nix into play further down. At least that's how I'd interpret it. So I think it's a good sign. BUT, it would mean that he thinks there's not much separation between Odunze, Nabers, and the WR's on our board at 4, 5, 6, etc. And there's where I would disagree with him. Though like some of you, he might view getting a QB as our be-all, end-all for this offseason. While I would agree, I don't think he'd be given carte blanche there by Mara (just my opinion). Sure, all conjecture at this point, so who knows.
if they think Nix (they've scouted him), could be a good starting QB, then a trade down with whoever ends up at 11 would make sense. They could recoup their lost 2nd rounder and still get a damn good WR.
Could you imagine if Schoen was sitting in meetings right now saying..."guys--- no matter what happens or who calls we aren't trading down". That would be crazy....unless your name is Dave Gettleman I guess
"If QBs get taken 1-4, or with 4 of the top 5, 6 or 7 picks, it will be the first time it has EVER happened." Joe Mahoney SB Nation Link - ( New Window )
Whole article, worth a read on all the QB, where drafted, games played, etc. Basically says "The draft slot with the most “best” QBs after number one is the sixth." Link - ( New Window )
Sort of fits what Daniel Jeremiah said about NE staying put at 3
with the WRs available. If we’re hellbent on drafting a QB but the top guys are too costly to get then it makes sense to get some extra picks and a QB later in the first.
Most trades are fairly even in value - if we hit on our picks and get multiple quality players then that can be just as good as getting one great player.
The raiders at 13 would be a trading partner for us
Right. I mentioned WR in my post. What I am suggesting is that the return on moving up will likely be less than if a QB were there. Teams rarely jump more than a handful of spots for a player at a position other than QB.
I am not against a trade down, per se. I am just hoping we are not going full Belichik and trading down over and over to end up with a roster full of solid but unspectacular players.
RE: The raiders at 13 would be a trading partner for us
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
But if you want a specific one, less MHJ, then we'd be a spot.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
But if you want a specific one, less MHJ, then we'd be a spot.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
Or just unavailable, as unfortunately the top three draft positions happen to be teams in dire need of a QB.
sure this was always "in play" to some extent as a backup if they couldn't trade up for one of the "big four" QBs, which may well be the case.
The problem is that they would be missing out on Nabers or Odunze, which is why I'm typically opposed to trading down out of a top 10 pick. When you're picking in the top 10, you are pretty much guaranteed to get the first or at worse second rated player on your board in a particular position group. But I do agree that they should at least pick up the phone and listen to the offer. Atlanta just added Cousins. Maybe they would be willing to trade their second to move up. But even then, do you want to give up Nabers or Odunze for a second round pick? I'm not sure I would, although maybe they would then draft Nix at eight.
But if you want a specific one, less MHJ, then we'd be a spot.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
That's how I read it as well, although it would be interesting to see if they draft a QB later on if they miss out on one of the "big four."
But if you want a specific one, less MHJ, then we'd be a spot.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
That's how I read it as well, although it would be interesting to see if they draft a QB later on if they miss out on one of the "big four."
Yeah. My hunch has been that we'll see a QB at some point regardless. It could be one of the tier2 guys, but it could end up being developmental guy depending on how things play out.
Even if they don’t in the first, they will pick up one somewhere, even if it is in the 3rd/4th round as a developmental guy. I think there is almost zero chance they don’t take one at some point in the draft.
In the 3rd/4th round makes much more sense when you consider they signed Lock to be the backup so that a rookie QB likely never has to come off the bench to play in 2024.
My hope is still that they make a move to get a top prospect they like. You have a coach who has a reputation for being a QB guru, it doesn’t make sense to not get him some really good clay to mold.
Hopefully this is not an indication of another rudderless GM. We've been though enough dithering and mismanagement.
This is why fans cannot be taken seriously. You guys are just never happy. Either Schoen gets accused of not being able to keep their intentions private or when their intentions are obviously completely unknown based on the public information being all over the map, he gets accused of being another rudderless GM and he’s just dithering. He simply can’t win with you guys. No matter what report gets spewed he’s either loose lipped or an indecisive boob.
I prefer he take Nabers, who I’m convinced would thrive in the Daboll system, and then consider taking 2 developmental QBs in rounds 2-5. No reason not to double up.
Hopefully this is not an indication of another rudderless GM. We've been though enough dithering and mismanagement.
This is why fans cannot be taken seriously. You guys are just never happy. Either Schoen gets accused of not being able to keep their intentions private or when their intentions are obviously completely unknown based on the public information being all over the map, he gets accused of being another rudderless GM and he’s just dithering. He simply can’t win with you guys. No matter what report gets spewed he’s either loose lipped or an indecisive boob.
I said "hopefully", he isn't. It means I still have hope he can turn this franchise around. I haven't turned on Schoen yet. But there seems like a lot of back and forth, trade up, then trade back talk. Whereas the Vikings seem a bit more direct and focused. I still have an open mind, though.
Chicago and Washington ain't tradin out of 1 and 2.
New England is the wild card. They could move back to 6 or 11 depending on what QB is left on the board. That would make it more likely a draft day trade. Unless of course you sail into Boston Harbor with a Spanish Galleon loaded with 8 ton of doubloons to entice them to make the trade now.
Arizona and the Chargers are both desperate for receivers and one of the three top guys would still be there for either team at number six, so a move there is still an option for them. I don't think either team is likely to move to 11, but WTF do I know.
The last option would be another draft day trade, oddly with the Vikings. Depending of course if their guy is still there at six and our guy or guys are already gone.
So putting all this together, I don't have a friggin clue.
And I doubt if any of these beat guys do either.
Carry on.
What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Switch spots with the chargers. Why do we have to watch the Vikings jump us for a QB?
Yes the of course they could make a trade with the Chargers, that's an option as well, that's assuming the Giants feel the 4th QB left is someone they like enough.
What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Switch spots with the chargers. Why do we have to watch the Vikings jump us for a QB?
Yes the of course they could make a trade with the Chargers, that's an option as well, that's assuming the Giants feel the 4th QB left is someone they like enough.
This is spot on. They may not even want the 4th QB.
They could have drafted Justin Fields or Micah Parsons in the first round in 2021, but they gave the 11th pick to Chicago to move back to 20th and drafted Kadarius Toney. That's what I see when they move back, a total FUBAR for years.
Of course its situation dependent but generally speaking not a big fan of a trade down here because it would seem to be passing on elite talent that is desperately needed. Yes the roster is thin pretty much throughout and adding picks has its merits. But in most non-QB scenarios I'd prefer the receiver. Esp Odunze.
They could have drafted Justin Fields or Micah Parsons in the first round in 2021, but they gave the 11th pick to Chicago to move back to 20th and drafted Kadarius Toney. That's what I see when they move back, a total FUBAR for years.
Yeah, that wasn't necessarily a great trade. But the bigger problem was not that they traded down, it was what they did with the picks. At #20, they took Toney instead of Christian Darrisaw, and then took Neal at #7 the following year instead of Garrett Wilson.
Every year is unique. I'd still prefer to take Nabers or Odunze at #6 instead of trading back if we miss out on the "big four" QBs, but would at least listen to offers.
I would rather they trade back and pick Penix/Nix in the 9-15 range
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
I'm really glad a lot of you yahoos don't run this team. Imagine giving up one the best interior defenders in the game today for a guy just as if not more likely to turn out to be Daniel Jones II as a top 5 QB.
I'm all in on drafting a QB, but trading your premiere talents for a 50/50 shot at a good qb at absolute best is moronic. Trading Dex for anything outside of the #1 pick to get your favorite would be incredibly silly and probably wouldn't be enough for Chicago anyway. For #2 or #3? Incredibly silly. You can make a stronger argument for Thibs or Banks, I suppose. But yikes.
These are elite WR prospects. Absolutely Elite. Size speed production and contested catch experts. Everything you want. It’s exactly what this offense needs (besides a QB). Elite WRs get paid enormous sums of money in the free agent market so there is great positional value. Take the WR at 6 and call it a day if they can’t go QB.
You dont trade out of a WR1 that you have been trying to acquire for 5 years?
You only do that if you think you dont have a QB
All signs point to Giants desperately seeking a QB. Scouting all these guys, Russ, trying to trade up etc and now considering moving down with Vikes having ammo to jump them and all 4 QBs gone
Only sin a GM can make is to have tunnel vision/inflexabity. NYG have had a few GMs that didn’t pass that test. Good for Schoen for being ready and not just hoping things will turn out the way he wants it.
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
You have a bizarre mind. White towel? Kitchen sink? I hope you interview for GM next year…those phrases play well in east rutherford.
Sometimes, maybe…you shouldn’t contribute to every thread. Maybe…sometimes.
QB, WR, DT, TE, CB, S, LB. The team has more holes than picks. If we can’t get our QB of preference then I’m good with moving back and getting as many 2nd round picks we can get.
with dynamite reporting again. Here we go with their beats and their "sources" who will claim every possible scenario before the draft. The Giants are taking a QB at 6, The Giants are trading up for a QB, The Giants will take a WR at 6, the Giants will trade down from 6.
That almost has to be for a receiver, as there is a good chance for QBs are off the board.
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
I don't think anyone is going to jump up to #6 for a receiver. It would have to be a scenario where one of the QBs falls to #6 and the Giants aren't keen on him but someone else is.
That almost has to be for a receiver, as there is a good chance for QBs are off the board.
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
I don't think anyone is going to jump up to #6 for a receiver. It would have to be a scenario where one of the QBs falls to #6 and the Giants aren't keen on him but someone else is.
I think the Bears would, maybe we could fleece a 2nd out of them for Odunze or Nabers?
Brian Thomas Jr becomes a top flight #1 WR...If you traded down into the 10-15 range, and you ended up with Thomas and more picks, you might not be losing anything in terms of impact at the WR1 position. Looking at the WR position in a bubble wrt to this draft, obviously.
I've noticed words or discussions over a podcast are getting more twisted than ever.
It's getting hilarious.
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
This team may get shut out of a QB but one of the best WRs will most certainly be there for them to grab. And this team certainly could use a WR1 at some point.
Link - ( New Window )
It's getting hilarious.
Exactly. Raanan covering all his bases.
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
I don’t buy someone trading up for a 6 if the QBs are gone
This wouldn't be a bad outcome, frankly.
Whole article, worth a read on all the QB, where drafted, games played, etc. Basically says "The draft slot with the most “best” QBs after number one is the sixth."
Link - ( New Window )
Most trades are fairly even in value - if we hit on our picks and get multiple quality players then that can be just as good as getting one great player.
Right. I mentioned WR in my post. What I am suggesting is that the return on moving up will likely be less than if a QB were there. Teams rarely jump more than a handful of spots for a player at a position other than QB.
I am not against a trade down, per se. I am just hoping we are not going full Belichik and trading down over and over to end up with a roster full of solid but unspectacular players.
I want a 2025 1st then as part of the trade.
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
Or just unavailable, as unfortunately the top three draft positions happen to be teams in dire need of a QB.
The problem is that they would be missing out on Nabers or Odunze, which is why I'm typically opposed to trading down out of a top 10 pick. When you're picking in the top 10, you are pretty much guaranteed to get the first or at worse second rated player on your board in a particular position group. But I do agree that they should at least pick up the phone and listen to the offer. Atlanta just added Cousins. Maybe they would be willing to trade their second to move up. But even then, do you want to give up Nabers or Odunze for a second round pick? I'm not sure I would, although maybe they would then draft Nix at eight.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
That's how I read it as well, although it would be interesting to see if they draft a QB later on if they miss out on one of the "big four."
Quote:
But if you want a specific one, less MHJ, then we'd be a spot.
I kind of read this as, if we can't get our QB this year (the guys we like might require a trade up cost vs grade too steep), then we'll continue to build out the roster and secure ammunition to make a move next year.
That's how I read it as well, although it would be interesting to see if they draft a QB later on if they miss out on one of the "big four."
My hope is still that they make a move to get a top prospect they like. You have a coach who has a reputation for being a QB guru, it doesn’t make sense to not get him some really good clay to mold.
This is why fans cannot be taken seriously. You guys are just never happy. Either Schoen gets accused of not being able to keep their intentions private or when their intentions are obviously completely unknown based on the public information being all over the map, he gets accused of being another rudderless GM and he’s just dithering. He simply can’t win with you guys. No matter what report gets spewed he’s either loose lipped or an indecisive boob.
Quote:
Hopefully this is not an indication of another rudderless GM. We've been though enough dithering and mismanagement.
This is why fans cannot be taken seriously. You guys are just never happy. Either Schoen gets accused of not being able to keep their intentions private or when their intentions are obviously completely unknown based on the public information being all over the map, he gets accused of being another rudderless GM and he’s just dithering. He simply can’t win with you guys. No matter what report gets spewed he’s either loose lipped or an indecisive boob.
I said "hopefully", he isn't. It means I still have hope he can turn this franchise around. I haven't turned on Schoen yet. But there seems like a lot of back and forth, trade up, then trade back talk. Whereas the Vikings seem a bit more direct and focused. I still have an open mind, though.
It's getting hilarious.
My reaction exactly.
Bears just demonstrated why. I don’t want a teams mid to late first round next year. I want a top 10 pick.
Which trade back partner is most likely to be bad?
New England is the wild card. They could move back to 6 or 11 depending on what QB is left on the board. That would make it more likely a draft day trade. Unless of course you sail into Boston Harbor with a Spanish Galleon loaded with 8 ton of doubloons to entice them to make the trade now.
Arizona and the Chargers are both desperate for receivers and one of the three top guys would still be there for either team at number six, so a move there is still an option for them. I don't think either team is likely to move to 11, but WTF do I know.
The last option would be another draft day trade, oddly with the Vikings. Depending of course if their guy is still there at six and our guy or guys are already gone.
So putting all this together, I don't have a friggin clue.
And I doubt if any of these beat guys do either.
Carry on.
Trade up.
Trade down.
or stand pat at 6.
Brilliant!
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Quote:
What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Switch spots with the chargers. Why do we have to watch the Vikings jump us for a QB?
Quote:
What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Right, the top 3 teams all *really* need QBs. The only way you get one is if one of those teams takes one of them off their board.
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In comment 16436304 The_Boss said:
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What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Switch spots with the chargers. Why do we have to watch the Vikings jump us for a QB?
Yes the of course they could make a trade with the Chargers, that's an option as well, that's assuming the Giants feel the 4th QB left is someone they like enough.
It's getting hilarious.
It’s because the Giants aren’t leaking info anymore. Whoever the rat was back in the day is no longer employed by the Giants.
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In comment 16436319 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 16436304 The_Boss said:
Quote:
What are they doing? Thinking next year’s QB class is gonna be good??
How do you "force" the top three teams holding the draft picks to trade down IF they are also in great need to draft a QB and refuse to trade out?
Switch spots with the chargers. Why do we have to watch the Vikings jump us for a QB?
Yes the of course they could make a trade with the Chargers, that's an option as well, that's assuming the Giants feel the 4th QB left is someone they like enough.
This is spot on. They may not even want the 4th QB.
Yeah, that wasn't necessarily a great trade. But the bigger problem was not that they traded down, it was what they did with the picks. At #20, they took Toney instead of Christian Darrisaw, and then took Neal at #7 the following year instead of Garrett Wilson.
Every year is unique. I'd still prefer to take Nabers or Odunze at #6 instead of trading back if we miss out on the "big four" QBs, but would at least listen to offers.
Basically, Penix/Nix + Thomas/Franklin. Then use the remaining 2 and 3 on CB and OT.
Basically, Penix/Nix + Thomas/Franklin. Then use the remaining 2 and 3 on CB and OT.
Saying this because I think the QB class is pretty flat after Caleb. Also think the WR class is fairly flat after MHJ.
🤮
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
I'm really glad a lot of you yahoos don't run this team. Imagine giving up one the best interior defenders in the game today for a guy just as if not more likely to turn out to be Daniel Jones II as a top 5 QB.
I'm all in on drafting a QB, but trading your premiere talents for a 50/50 shot at a good qb at absolute best is moronic. Trading Dex for anything outside of the #1 pick to get your favorite would be incredibly silly and probably wouldn't be enough for Chicago anyway. For #2 or #3? Incredibly silly. You can make a stronger argument for Thibs or Banks, I suppose. But yikes.
You dont trade out of a WR1 that you have been trying to acquire for 5 years?
You only do that if you think you dont have a QB
All signs point to Giants desperately seeking a QB. Scouting all these guys, Russ, trying to trade up etc and now considering moving down with Vikes having ammo to jump them and all 4 QBs gone
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And literally every scenario physically possible has been reported as "In Play" for the Giants...
It's getting hilarious.
It’s because the Giants aren’t leaking info anymore. Whoever the rat was back in the day is no longer employed by the Giants.
Schoen just has someone tell Tim McDonnell different info every day to confuse him.
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And use the extra pick(s) they acquire to trade up into the 15-25 range to select one of the other first round WRs.
Basically, Penix/Nix + Thomas/Franklin. Then use the remaining 2 and 3 on CB and OT.
Saying this because I think the QB class is pretty flat after Caleb. Also think the WR class is fairly flat after MHJ.
Agree Caleb is in his own tier. But I think Nabers is close to MHJ. I think he'll be the most explosive playmaker in this draft.
Maybe predict the weather on draft day. 100% chance there will be weather.
But, man, what a disappointment this is going to be not getting one of these big three.
If Schoen is grabbing the white towel to surrender moving up, I hope it's because he threw in the kitchen sink. Like dangling either KT, Sexy, or Banks.
You have a bizarre mind. White towel? Kitchen sink? I hope you interview for GM next year…those phrases play well in east rutherford.
Sometimes, maybe…you shouldn’t contribute to every thread. Maybe…sometimes.
QB, WR, DT, TE, CB, S, LB. The team has more holes than picks. If we can’t get our QB of preference then I’m good with moving back and getting as many 2nd round picks we can get.
Picks 22-50 is full of talent.
It's getting hilarious.
Exactly
There are no leaks to these clowns
They want clicks
Schoen wants misinformation spread
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
Someone who has a man crush on Alt?
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
I don't think anyone is going to jump up to #6 for a receiver. It would have to be a scenario where one of the QBs falls to #6 and the Giants aren't keen on him but someone else is.
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That almost has to be for a receiver, as there is a good chance for QBs are off the board.
I’m sure it was never off the table, but I can’t imagine they are getting a haul for that pick since it will likely not be for a QB.
I don't think anyone is going to jump up to #6 for a receiver. It would have to be a scenario where one of the QBs falls to #6 and the Giants aren't keen on him but someone else is.
I think the Bears would, maybe we could fleece a 2nd out of them for Odunze or Nabers?
.